WOW, what do you know... Freedom works.

[Conza88]

YouTube - True News 43: Roads, Education, Hypocrisy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Qiq4442zY)

"What happens to traffic flow, road fatalities and accidents when you take away traffic lights, lanes, and mix in pedestrians, bicyclists and cars? An object lesson in voluntarism..."


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/40/85607666_9c63b5451a.jpg?v=0

That Monderman helped soften. No lights, no roundabout, no bike lanes. Everyone just flows around gently, making eye contact and giving one another room. Delightful (but freezing right now).


Is this the end of the road for traffic lights? By David Millward
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1533248/Is-this-the-end-of-the-road-for-traffic-lights.html

Obviously private roads, the owners would set the rules - but looky above and what do you find.... :eek:


Discuss.(i.e Statist's try defend coercion)

[shenlu54]

I think traffic lights and zebra lines can help old people and walkers reduce risk of car accidents. There are always reckless drivers in the world,you can't expect everyone to be gentle while driving through the crossroads.

[Conza88]

I think traffic lights and zebra lines can help old people and walkers reduce risk of car accidents. There are always reckless drivers in the world,you can't expect everyone to be gentle while driving through the crossroads.

I'd propose you "feel" and not "think", and that your "thinking" is not based on empirical, nor objective knowledge, unlike those of the top engineer who has stated exactly the opposite, about a natural order and that attempts to impose controls on chaos, actually create it. :)

[sevin]

Traffic in Iraq:

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/81376/Traffic-In-Iraq.html?rh=150826

[ChaosControl]

So traffic lights cause accidents.
Seatbelts cause unsafe driving.

Who would have thought it, government intervention makes things worse. Reducing government intervention improves things. While this stuff is pretty obvious in general, I am still surprised about the traffic light thing. I would have figured that even in a stateless society that a private entity would put them up, but apparently they aren't needed. That's pretty neat.

I like the guys line about "Okay, so what are you doing about it?" And if they say "err um nothing...", then "You don't give a ****". :D

Cool video A+

[Conza88]

Traffic in Iraq:

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/81376/Traffic-In-Iraq.html?rh=150826

Exactly. Government employee - traffic conductor, he is taking a break.

Figures... :rolleyes: But the traffic is still able to go, no crashes, no worries.. and this is all still with socialist roads, imagine if they were private!

Good vid. ;)

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

I really like Stefan. He's definitely one of the best voices for Libertarianism and/or Rational Anarchism/Voluntaryism.

[Brassmouth]

I really like Stefan. He's definitely one of the best voices for Libertarianism and/or Rational Anarchism/Voluntaryism.

QFT. Great video.

[heavenlyboy34]

I really like Stefan. He's definitely one of the best voices for Libertarianism and/or Rational Anarchism/Voluntaryism.

QFT! I subscribe to his podcasts, and they are very educational/enlightening. :cool::):D

[sevin]

Exactly. Government employee - traffic conductor, he is taking a break.

Figures... :rolleyes: But the traffic is still able to go, no crashes, no worries.. and this is all still with socialist roads, imagine if they were private!

Agreed. Just thought that video was funny.

[jclay2]

The point about removing traffic lights was too much on the anecdotal side for me to fully believe it, but it is certainly worth investigating.

[shenlu54]

I'd propose you "feel" and not "think", and that your "thinking" is not based on empirical, nor objective knowledge, unlike those of the top engineer who has stated exactly the opposite, about a natural order and that attempts to impose controls on chaos, actually create it. :)

I think you did not understand the fact that there are no roads in the world in the beginning!

All roads,crossroads,highways,subways,railroads,etc are all made by human beings,they are not like market which is natural.It's the people who bulid those constructions,so we make the rules.Suppose,when we build a building like a Skyscraper,do you think we don't need set the elevators such as "for odd floors" or "for even floors"?

If we didn't regulate the elevators,believe me,there would be huge chaos.

And considering the cost, I think traffic voluntarism can fit for small towns which have low traffic flow,but to those big cities in which millions of people are living,we absolutely need traffic lights,zebra lines,etc.

[Conza88]

I think you did not understand the fact that there are no roads in the world in the beginning!

Define the beginning. :rolleyes: But really, you don't think that was understood? Hahaaaaaaaa..


All roads,crossroads,highways,subways,railroads,etc are all made by human beings,they are not like market which is natural.

Lmao. What Is the Free Market? by Murray N. Rothbard (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard106.html)


It's the people who bulid those constructions,so we make the rules.Suppose,when we build a building like a Skyscraper,do you think we don't need set the elevators such as "for odd floors" or "for even floors"?

If we didn't regulate the elevators,believe me,there would be huge chaos.

Define regulation.


And considering the cost, I think traffic voluntarism can fit for small towns which have low traffic flow,but to those big cities in which millions of people are living,we absolutely need traffic lights,zebra lines,etc.

That's an assumption, a feeling, and not based on reality. If the socialists didn't screw shit up, who knows - maybe there would be heaps more one way roads, so less traffic jams etc.

The only way to sort it all out is with competition, and that comes with competing road services.

[Epic]

Walter Block is the man to go to for information on private roads.

here's the pdf book (mises.org for the infinite win):

http://mises.org/books/roads_web.pdf


story: mises.org/story/341

[Expatriate]

Interesting video. All the videos and articles I've seen by Stefan have been good. I just looked him up on Wikipedia and what do you know... the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedomain_Radio) insinuates that he's a cult leader?


Criticism and Controversy
The community website and Stefan Molyneux received media coverage after several parents of Stefan Molyneux's fans claimed that Freedomain Radio is a therapeutic cult.[4][5][6][7][8][9]

The topic of the articles is Molyneux's alleged role in encouraging members of Freedomain Radio to break ties with their families. Some claim that Molyneux manipulates vulnerable people into thinking their family relationships are abusive. Molyneux answers that adult relations are in fact voluntary, and that he simply reminds people of that. In the SkyNews article, Ian Haworth of the Cult Information Centre, is reported to have said that the success of Freedomain Radio is "a worrying development".[8][10]


Oooooh. I don't want to listen to him now, he's a cult leader! He might hypnotize me into breaking ties with my family and then I'll turn up in the paper missing!

Why is it that every liberty-friendly person seems to have crap on their Wikipedia page? Ron Paul has racist newsletters and white supremacist Hitler crap in his article, but look at Obama's page and there's no mention of his connection to terrorist Bill Ayers and the Weathermen OR the birth-certificate controversy OR his belonging to a racist church or anything else that could possibly look bad. Lord knows there's enough references to cite. He doesn't even have a criticism page because according to the Wikipedia editors' consensus "there is no real criticism".

There's definitely a double standard at work on Wikipedia. Neutral POV my ass. I've tried to reason on the talk pages there before, and there are people who do nothing but spend the entire day trying to find ways to make articles about libertarian causes look bad. It's almost like it's their job or something.

[torchbearer]

IN Jamaica there are no speed limits or stop signs. Not many accidents.
Point proven.

[Conza88]

44,000 die each year on American roads. Wonder what the % break down would be... anyone want to bother? lol

[Expatriate]

Type in "Stefan Molyneux" on Google and see what the first suggestion is that pops up. :p

Way back when I was in high school, I got in a pretty heated argument with a teacher on this subject.

My position was that adults should be able to form associations and make decisions for themselves freely, including joining "cults", as long as they do not harm anyone but themselves.

She made a bunch of specious arguments about how gullible people are and how they can easily be tricked and deceived by crafty cult leaders into doing things that are bad for them, how much this hurts the other people in their lives, and how the state has a responsibility to protect people from their own bad decisions.

I got irritated and said something like "Then how the hell do I know that this school isn't a cult? Because the caring state supports it? The environment here is bad for me in my opinion. As a matter of fact it's much worse than a cult because I HAVE to come here, I don't have a choice!".

I then got detention for swearing (saying hell) at a teacher. :rolleyes:

[Brassmouth]

Type in "Stefan Molyneux" on Google and see what the first suggestion is that pops up. :p

Wikipedia.


.......................

[Danke]

I gave up on Wikipedia when they deleted Dave Champions excellent write up on the Tax Honesty movement.

They don't like anything that is not mainstream.

That, plus Kade is an editor.

[Conza88]

I gave up on Wikipedia when they deleted Dave Champions excellent write up on the Tax Honesty movement.

They don't like anything that is not mainstream.

That, plus Kade is an editor.

Hahah, well played sir. :D

[Expatriate]

Wikipedia.


.......................

That's funny. I get "stefan molyneux cult" then "stefan molyneux wikipedia"

[shenlu54]

That's an assumption, a feeling, and not based on reality. If the socialists didn't screw shit up, who knows - maybe there would be heaps more one way roads, so less traffic jams etc.

It seems you are lack of experience in living in huge cities.When you find there are too many cars for you to cross the roads,You will have no choice but to wait for the green light.

Anyway,I think your understanding about the traffic system is beyond reality.

There is a very limited amount of responsibility for the government,and that is to protect life and liberty. Old people and women need the government's help to cross the busy streets.

And I also think these things should be decided by local,not by the central government. However,it's the central government's job to make a general traffic law in which some big issues such as right-hand traffic or left-hand traffic can be unified.

[Pennsylvania]

+1 for spontaneous order.

BUT...

Earlier this week a huge storm knocked out some of our local traffic lights. If the behavior I saw is any indication, don't count on people spontaneously organizing on the first day or so. :p

[Kade]

I gave up on Wikipedia when they deleted Dave Champions excellent write up on the Tax Honesty movement.

They don't like anything that is not mainstream.

That, plus Kade is an editor.

From someone who debates reality.

[silverhandorder]

There is a neighborhood near my college where they have two lanes between every long block. There is no traffic lights at all. I walk through it on my way home since it is a good area. It felt kinda dangerous going through those lanes. Then I got my timing down and it became just like crossing with lights. Obviously you have to pay attention a lot more.

If we can do this stepwise reduction in traffic lights it would make sense. Exactly how the article actually advocates. In principle this one town proved that the spontaneous order of the ice ring transfers over to street traffic. It seems also that the design of the road had to be changed also.

[Expatriate]

Anyway,I think your understanding about the traffic system is beyond reality.

There is a very limited amount of responsibility for the government,and that is to protect life and liberty. Old people and women need the government's help to cross the busy streets.

And I also think these things should be decided by local,not by the central government. However,it's the central government's job to make a general traffic law in which some big issues such as right-hand traffic or left-hand traffic can be unified.

I disagree. Why does there need to be any central planning at all in matters such as this?

If everyone in some town decided to drive on the opposite side of the road than everyone else for some reason, it would cause nothing but problems. The free market organizes itself; once people got tired of the traffic accidents and confusion of people visiting the town, not to mention having to switch lanes as you drove out of the city (how would that work anyway?), they would adopt the same standard as everyone else for the sake of safety and sanity. They don't need a central super-authority to tell them that.

There are very few things that I can think of that can't be organized well without central planning, large scale offensive war may be one of them.

[Conza88]

bump for Optatron.

[Kraig]

fail post

[nayjevin]

there are very few things that i can think of that can't be organized well without central planning, large scale offensive war may be one of them.

qft