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View Full Version : Goodbye GM, By Michael Moore.




ClayTrainor
06-12-2009, 07:09 PM
I just wanted to hear some thoughts on this article, from this board.

Many family members are sending me this, through email with taglines like "Michael Moore hits the nail on the head", and it's quite irritating since it's clearly socialist BS.

What would you say to someone, who thinks the following "hits the nail on the head"?




June 1, 2009

I write this on the morning of the end of the once-mighty General Motors. By high noon, the President of the United States will have made it official: General Motors, as we know it, has been totaled.

As I sit here in GM's birthplace, Flint, Michigan, I am surrounded by friends and family who are filled with anxiety about what will happen to them and to the town. Forty percent of the homes and businesses in the city have been abandoned. Imagine what it would be like if you lived in a city where almost every other house is empty. What would be your state of mind?

It is with sad irony that the company which invented "planned obsolescence" -- the decision to build cars that would fall apart after a few years so that the customer would then have to buy a new one -- has now made itself obsolete. It refused to build automobiles that the public wanted, cars that got great gas mileage, were as safe as they could be, and were exceedingly comfortable to drive. Oh -- and that wouldn't start falling apart after two years. GM stubbornly fought environmental and safety regulations. Its executives arrogantly ignored the "inferior" Japanese and German cars, cars which would become the gold standard for automobile buyers. And it was hell-bent on punishing its unionized workforce, lopping off thousands of workers for no good reason other than to "improve" the short-term bottom line of the corporation. Beginning in the 1980s, when GM was posting record profits, it moved countless jobs to Mexico and elsewhere, thus destroying the lives of tens of thousands of hard-working Americans. The glaring stupidity of this policy was that, when they eliminated the income of so many middle class families, who did they think was going to be able to afford to buy their cars? History will record this blunder in the same way it now writes about the French building the Maginot Line or how the Romans cluelessly poisoned their own water system with lethal lead in its pipes.

So here we are at the deathbed of General Motors. The company's body not yet cold, and I find myself filled with -- dare I say it -- joy. It is not the joy of revenge against a corporation that ruined my hometown and brought misery, divorce, alcoholism, homelessness, physical and mental debilitation, and drug addiction to the people I grew up with. Nor do I, obviously, claim any joy in knowing that 21,000 more GM workers will be told that they, too, are without a job.

But you and I and the rest of America now own a car company! I know, I know -- who on earth wants to run a car company? Who among us wants $50 billion of our tax dollars thrown down the rat hole of still trying to save GM? Let's be clear about this: The only way to save GM is to kill GM. Saving our precious industrial infrastructure, though, is another matter and must be a top priority. If we allow the shutting down and tearing down of our auto plants, we will sorely wish we still had them when we realize that those factories could have built the alternative energy systems we now desperately need. And when we realize that the best way to transport ourselves is on light rail and bullet trains and cleaner buses, how will we do this if we've allowed our industrial capacity and its skilled workforce to disappear?

Thus, as GM is "reorganized" by the federal government and the bankruptcy court, here is the plan I am asking President Obama to implement for the good of the workers, the GM communities, and the nation as a whole. Twenty years ago when I made "Roger & Me," I tried to warn people about what was ahead for General Motors. Had the power structure and the punditocracy listened, maybe much of this could have been avoided. Based on my track record, I request an honest and sincere consideration of the following suggestions:

1. Just as President Roosevelt did after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the President must tell the nation that we are at war and we must immediately convert our auto factories to factories that build mass transit vehicles and alternative energy devices. Within months in Flint in 1942, GM halted all car production and immediately used the assembly lines to build planes, tanks and machine guns. The conversion took no time at all. Everyone pitched in. The fascists were defeated.

We are now in a different kind of war -- a war that we have conducted against the ecosystem and has been conducted by our very own corporate leaders. This current war has two fronts. One is headquartered in Detroit. The products built in the factories of GM, Ford and Chrysler are some of the greatest weapons of mass destruction responsible for global warming and the melting of our polar icecaps. The things we call "cars" may have been fun to drive, but they are like a million daggers into the heart of Mother Nature. To continue to build them would only lead to the ruin of our species and much of the planet.

The other front in this war is being waged by the oil companies against you and me. They are committed to fleecing us whenever they can, and they have been reckless stewards of the finite amount of oil that is located under the surface of the earth. They know they are sucking it bone dry. And like the lumber tycoons of the early 20th century who didn't give a damn about future generations as they tore down every forest they could get their hands on, these oil barons are not telling the public what they know to be true -- that there are only a few more decades of useable oil on this planet. And as the end days of oil approach us, get ready for some very desperate people willing to kill and be killed just to get their hands on a gallon can of gasoline.

President Obama, now that he has taken control of GM, needs to convert the factories to new and needed uses immediately.

2. Don't put another $30 billion into the coffers of GM to build cars. Instead, use that money to keep the current workforce -- and most of those who have been laid off -- employed so that they can build the new modes of 21st century transportation. Let them start the conversion work now.

3. Announce that we will have bullet trains criss-crossing this country in the next five years. Japan is celebrating the 45th anniversary of its first bullet train this year. Now they have dozens of them. Average speed: 165 mph. Average time a train is late: under 30 seconds. They have had these high speed trains for nearly five decades -- and we don't even have one! The fact that the technology already exists for us to go from New York to L.A. in 17 hours by train, and that we haven't used it, is criminal. Let's hire the unemployed to build the new high speed lines all over the country. Chicago to Detroit in less than two hours. Miami to DC in under 7 hours. Denver to Dallas in five and a half. This can be done and done now.

4. Initiate a program to put light rail mass transit lines in all our large and medium-sized cities. Build those trains in the GM factories. And hire local people everywhere to install and run this system.

5. For people in rural areas not served by the train lines, have the GM plants produce energy efficient clean buses.

6. For the time being, have some factories build hybrid or all-electric cars (and batteries). It will take a few years for people to get used to the new ways to transport ourselves, so if we're going to have automobiles, let's have kinder, gentler ones. We can be building these next month (do not believe anyone who tells you it will take years to retool the factories -- that simply isn't true).

7. Transform some of the empty GM factories to facilities that build windmills, solar panels and other means of alternate forms of energy. We need tens of millions of solar panels right now. And there is an eager and skilled workforce who can build them.

8. Provide tax incentives for those who travel by hybrid car or bus or train. Also, credits for those who convert their home to alternative energy.

9. To help pay for this, impose a two-dollar tax on every gallon of gasoline. This will get people to switch to more energy saving cars or to use the new rail lines and rail cars the former autoworkers have built for them.

Well, that's a start. Please, please, please don't save GM so that a smaller version of it will simply do nothing more than build Chevys or Cadillacs. This is not a long-term solution. Don't throw bad money into a company whose tailpipe is malfunctioning, causing a strange odor to fill the car.

100 years ago this year, the founders of General Motors convinced the world to give up their horses and saddles and buggy whips to try a new form of transportation. Now it is time for us to say goodbye to the internal combustion engine. It seemed to serve us well for so long. We enjoyed the car hops at the A&W. We made out in the front -- and the back -- seat. We watched movies on large outdoor screens, went to the races at NASCAR tracks across the country, and saw the Pacific Ocean for the first time through the window down Hwy. 1. And now it's over. It's a new day and a new century. The President -- and the UAW -- must seize this moment and create a big batch of lemonade from this very sour and sad lemon.

Yesterday, the last surviving person from the Titanic disaster passed away. She escaped certain death that night and went on to live another 97 years.

So can we survive our own Titanic in all the Flint Michigans of this country. 60% of GM is ours. I think we can do a better job.

Yours,
Michael Moore

nobody's_hero
06-12-2009, 08:00 PM
I had something more in-depth written here but I realized it wasn't worth it, as Mr. Moore is too far gone.

In general, this whole situation with GM sucks.

fletcher
06-12-2009, 08:11 PM
Build unprofitable products that no one wants so we can keep people (who vote for Democrats) employed. Who cares that the taxpayers (and anyone that holds a dollar) will have to support this waste of resources to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. It's for the public good! Does Moore want the entire country to be poor?

ClayTrainor
06-12-2009, 08:15 PM
I also noticed that none of his plans involve making money or turning the industrial assets into profitable capital.

Every single one of his "solutions" will cost shit loads of money, and will not return profits.

Mandrik
06-12-2009, 08:17 PM
If private companies want to invest their money into these ventures, go for it. It ain't gonna happen mainly because that would be a failed business venture--which is why we shouldn't do it with tax dollars.

Original_Intent
06-12-2009, 08:21 PM
For one thing comparing Japan and their bullet trains to "criss-crossing" a country of our size with bullet trains is a stupid apples to oranges comparison. A bullet train line on each of the coasts for fast commutes in very congested areas might make sense. But cross country lines just for fast passenger train would be insanely costly and probably would not yeild a lot of efficiency over flight. And take 3 times as long.

dannno
06-12-2009, 08:30 PM
He did hit the nail on the head......until he got to the part about letting Obama and congress plan the economy. But the part about the free market destroying GM because they decided to build cars that went obsolete and got shitty gas mileage...that was the part that hit the nail on the head.

LibertyEagle
06-12-2009, 08:40 PM
Obama doesn't need to do anything. He needs to keep his stinking nose out of the economy. He and his ilk created the problem and someone thinks that more of the same is going to fix it? That's nuts. Let the market decide by using the assets to produce things that people want to buy.

Sandman33
06-12-2009, 08:40 PM
For one thing comparing Japan and their bullet trains to "criss-crossing" a country of our size with bullet trains is a stupid apples to oranges comparison. A bullet train line on each of the coasts for fast commutes in very congested areas might make sense. But cross country lines just for fast passenger train would be insanely costly and probably would not yeild a lot of efficiency over flight. And take 3 times as long.

Micheal Moore is a tool and a friend of the enemy.

james1906
06-12-2009, 08:59 PM
$2 a gallon tax on gasoline? How are the people at the factory who build but cannot afford the new high falutin electric vehicle supposed to get to work?

sevin
06-12-2009, 09:00 PM
In other words, the government should take over private companies and tell them how to run their businesses. His whole philosophy is off. Where will it end?

I wonder what Michael Moore would think if the government sent someone to oversee his documentary-making and tell him how to do his job.

Anti Federalist
06-12-2009, 09:05 PM
The new model that will turn around Government Motors.

http://www.gunners4life.com/forum/avatars/trabant10-full(1).jpg

HOLLYWOOD
06-12-2009, 09:06 PM
Michael Moore another porky movie liberal...

Maybe the title should reflect... "More of Moore?"

Goodbye GM & Chrysler, Hellloooooo Krispy Kreme and Dunkin Dounuts

how about cutting through the BULL MOORE?

Goodbye $80 BILLION and 1/4 Million jobs America!

Spike
06-12-2009, 09:59 PM
In other words, the government should take over private companies and tell them how to run their businesses. His whole philosophy is off. Where will it end?

I wonder what Michael Moore would think if the government sent someone to oversee his documentary-making and tell him how to do his job.

Well, how can you blame him when these same businesses use corporate strategies like planned obsolescence to screw the customer.

I'm not defending Moore's moronic position that the state can do a better job, but let's not pretend that businesses are high and mighty and that they are always right. Private companies, if left to their own devices, will enslave Americans, just as the state will, only they'll do it more thoroughly cause they'll make a profit.

Danke
06-12-2009, 10:07 PM
Private companies, if left to their own devices, will enslave Americans, just as the state will, only they'll do it more thoroughly cause they'll make a profit.

No, they are not "left to their own devices" That is the problem. Government regulations that special interests have lobbied for to get government involved.

Free market, no "enslave[ment]"

Brassmouth
06-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Well, how can you blame him when these same businesses use corporate strategies like planned obsolescence to screw the customer.

I'm not defending Moore's moronic position that the state can do a better job, but let's not pretend that businesses are high and mighty and that they are always right. Private companies, if left to their own devices, will enslave Americans, just as the state will, only they'll do it more thoroughly cause they'll make a profit.

That makes absolutely no sense. What are you doing here? Are you even a libertarian?

Planned obsolescence is a Marxist myth. Read a goddamn book...

Spike
06-12-2009, 10:15 PM
No, they are not "left to their own devices" That is the problem. Government regulations that special interests have lobbied for to get government involved.

Free market, no "enslave[ment]"

But that doesn't necessarily make regulation a bad thing, it just matters on the type and severity of the regulation and who's backing it. We would have no use for regulation if we lived in a perfect world, but we don't. But I agree, they are not left to their own devices to compete fairly. I'm just saying, if the only choices are between a corporate monopoly and a state monopoly, I'll take a state monopoly any day.

But yeah you're right, we did not have a free market. And if we use the same correct logic, we don't have socialism now. It's all rhetoric, it's the same system--just maximized for total enslavement.

Spike
06-12-2009, 10:19 PM
That makes absolutely no sense. What are you doing here? Are you even a libertarian?

Planned obsolescence is a Marxist myth. Read a goddamn book...

Geez. A guy thinks out of line for a minute and the place goes haywire. Calm down, can't I entertain different ideas?

And yes I am a libertarian, in thought, as well as in economics. Plus I like to play devil's advocate from time to time just to keep people on their toes.

And I have alot of goddamn books, marxists ones too.

Danke
06-12-2009, 10:19 PM
. I'm just saying, if the only choices are between a corporate monopoly and a state monopoly, I'll take a state monopoly any day.


Can we have monopoly without state interference?

Bman
06-12-2009, 10:21 PM
What a waste of my life. I'd say Michael Moore needs to get out of fantasy land. Cities have died before. Just because someone doesn't want to move doesn't mean I should pay so they can live comfortably where they are.

He fails to see those regulations he talks about are part of the reason they could not compete and had to cut/move jobs.

If ever there was a man could only see something from one side it is Michael Moore.

Spike
06-12-2009, 10:26 PM
Can we have monopoly without state interference?

not in the beginning of a monopoly, it has to stay on the life support of the state. But once its strong and out of bed, it begins to walks on its own two feet and knocks the state daddy down, and starts to become more assertive. But we'll never reach that point because the state daddy is always supported by the idiot worshippers.

let's look at it this way, let the corporate monopolies eat up the state, and once that is out of the way, we can go after them, and that way both enemies of human freedom will be gone. Because we can't fight both at once. But, again, that is never gonna happen because people always back up the state. So instead were stuck with two headed monsters. I'm starting to ramble and run off logic a little bit, but I hope i'm making some sense.

Sean
06-12-2009, 10:27 PM
How about government get out of the car business? Do away with CAFE standards ect. Maybe we can then get some really good and inexpensive cars. Me personally I don't drive that much in a year so I wouldn't care if my car gets 9 mpg or 50 mpg. What I would like is a solidly built car with a lot of power that is inexpensive and easy to fix myself without a lot of electrical wiring and computers.

Spike
06-12-2009, 10:29 PM
What a waste of my life. I'd say Michael Moore needs to get out of fantasy land. Cities have died before. Just because someone doesn't want to move doesn't mean I should pay so they can live comfortably where they are.

He fails to see those regulations he talks about are part of the reason they could not compete and had to cut/move jobs.

If ever there was a man could only see something from one side it is Michael Moore.

good point. cities are cyclical. that's what most of these people on the left who are criticizing the current civilization meltdown don't understand. Maybe it's entirely a good thing that GM is gone, and you can't artificially bring back Flint, no matter how much willpower you have--you just can't compete against the laws of nature and the market.

idiom
06-13-2009, 12:09 AM
Imagine what it would be like if you lived in a city where almost every other house is empty. What would be your state of mind?

My mind would be filled with ideas of how to create a lot of wealth with than many opportunites just laying around.

Sandman33
06-13-2009, 02:04 AM
My mind would be filled with ideas of how to create a lot of wealth with than many opportunites just laying around.

HAH! Go to Detroit then and make your fortune.:rolleyes:

idiom
06-13-2009, 02:08 AM
HAH! Go to Detroit then and make your fortune.:rolleyes:

I prefer similar places in New Zealand.

America is way too facist for me.

But you could.

Sandman33
06-13-2009, 02:19 AM
I prefer similar places in New Zealand.

America is way too facist for me.

But you could.

MEH, you mentioned the growth opportunities of Detroit, don't try and bail to New Zealand....and once the USA has gone socialist....HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU THINK N.Z. HAS LEFT?

idiom
06-13-2009, 03:47 AM
MEH, you mentioned the growth opportunities of Detroit, don't try and bail to New Zealand....and once the USA has gone socialist....HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU THINK N.Z. HAS LEFT?

I mentioned the growth oppotunites of a city that has a had a large company collapse.

We abandoned socialism in 1984. In response to Americas moves, our politics has moved even further right, freeing the market, paying off the national debt and protecting the currency.

Do you really think a socialist America will be able to hold it together long enough to conquer the world?

nobody's_hero
06-13-2009, 04:23 AM
I mentioned the growth oppotunites of a city that has a had a large company collapse.

We abandoned socialism in 1984. In response to Americas moves, our politics has moved even further right, freeing the market, paying off the national debt and protecting the currency.

Do you really think a socialist America will be able to hold it together long enough to conquer the world?

Fascist America has already done about half of the taking over. :(