We have the Holocaust Museum - Why?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Lets see: Germany rounded up a lot of Jews, imprisoned them, forced labor and genocide. Germany makes sense for the location of such a Museum.

Israels population was the victim - yeah, they make sense for a good location.

The US was involved in freeing prisoners for a couple of weeks, as were the Russians, etc. So why us?

For that matter, how come the Holocaust rates a whole chapter in the history books, but all the other big ones aren't even mentioned? Didn't Stalin kill a lot more of his citizens than Hitler did, and it doesn't even deserve a footnote? What gives?

Maybe we should just pack the whole place up and ship it to Israel. It seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

-t

[Bman]

Lets see: Germany rounded up a lot of Jews, imprisoned them, forced labor and genocide. Germany makes sense for the location of such a Museum.

Israels population was the victim - yeah, they make sense for a good location.

The US was involved in freeing prisoners for a couple of weeks, as were the Russians, etc. So why us?

For that matter, how come the Holocaust rates a whole chapter in the history books, but all the other big ones aren't even mentioned? Didn't Stalin kill a lot more of his citizens than Hitler did, and it doesn't even deserve a footnote? What gives?

Maybe we should just pack the whole place up and ship it to Israel. It seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

-t


Why do we build half the crap we build. I get why they would build such an object. They want people to know it just isn't right to kill millions of people. Obviously people try to get it to say more than that, and that's one problem with ever building tributes.

[Vessol]

Most jews in Europe ended up emigrating to the United States.

You mention Stalin, the Japanese should also be mentioned. These are slowly coming to light, and many modern history books mention these atrocities as well, not in as much detail though yet.

Personally I see nothing wrong with having it here. It reminds Americans of a terrible chapter in world history and those survivors and their decedents are now Americans as well. You don't think an event that happened to your fellow Americans is worth mentioning or building an educational monument to?

[revolutionisnow]

Lets see: Germany rounded up a lot of Jews, imprisoned them, forced labor and genocide. Germany makes sense for the location of such a Museum.

Israels population was the victim - yeah, they make sense for a good location.

The US was involved in freeing prisoners for a couple of weeks, as were the Russians, etc. So why us?

For that matter, how come the Holocaust rates a whole chapter in the history books, but all the other big ones aren't even mentioned? Didn't Stalin kill a lot more of his citizens than Hitler did, and it doesn't even deserve a footnote? What gives?

Maybe we should just pack the whole place up and ship it to Israel. It seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

-t

Its purpose is to demonize and put a guilt trip on some people, while obtaining empathy and pity for another people. If the museum recognized all the atrocities - African Slavery, Native Americans Genocide, Armenian Genocide, Soviet and Chinese Gulags, etc, it would be another thing, but it does not. The notion that they are the only ones that have suffered in recent times is absurd.

[VIDEODROME]

If we build such things for people who became Americans you'd think there would be something for the Irish.

[Bman]

If we build such things for people who became Americans you'd think there would be something for the Irish.

What are you talking about. Walk one block in a city and you're bound to find about three of those type of places.:)

[Vessol]

If we build such things for people who became Americans you'd think there would be something for the Irish.

http://www.irishamericanheritagemuseum.org/

And being descended from Irish immigrants, I myself have seen plenty about Irish persecution in History books.

[Sean]

Lets see: Germany rounded up a lot of Jews, imprisoned them, forced labor and genocide. Germany makes sense for the location of such a Museum.

Israels population was the victim - yeah, they make sense for a good location.

The US was involved in freeing prisoners for a couple of weeks, as were the Russians, etc. So why us?

For that matter, how come the Holocaust rates a whole chapter in the history books, but all the other big ones aren't even mentioned? Didn't Stalin kill a lot more of his citizens than Hitler did, and it doesn't even deserve a footnote? What gives?

Maybe we should just pack the whole place up and ship it to Israel. It seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

-t

Some people that die are worth more than others it seems. That Jews were killed in Germany has to be beat into the heads of every US citizens. If not we may not feel the need to give Israel foreign aid. The holocaust was a sad event and I had a grandmother that was forced into slave labor by the Germans, but there were equal tragedies going on in USSR and China. I agree if there is to be a government museum it should include all mass killings. Apparently you can't mention that the Turk committed genocide against the Armenians. Even the Israeli government is denying that. So Armenian genocide denial=good holocaust denial = bad.

[Vessol]

Some people that die are worth more than others it seems. That Jews were killed in Germany has to be beat into the heads of every US citizens. If not we may not feel the need to give Israel foreign aid. The holocaust was a sad event and I had a grandmother that was forced into slave labor by the Germans, but there were equal tragedies going on in USSR and China. I agree if there is to be a government museum it should include all mass killings. Apparently you can't mention that the Turk committed genocide against the Armenians. Even the Israeli government is denying that. So Armenian genocide denial=good holocaust denial = bad.

FYI. The Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C is run by private donations and was built by private donations.

[paulim]

why do we need steven spielbergs imagination? if you try to get the answer I give you a hint: the answer to both questions is the same.

[nayjevin]

why is there a tractor museum in Kansas? this is a tangent away from Ron Paul...

[Objectivist]

Probably the same reason we have the United Nations in New York City...... for the good looking HOOKERS.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Here's another question? Why is there a Holocaust museum in every dang STATE? Well, not in every state but they are workin on it. How many Holocaust artifacts can there possibly be? Why not have a Holocost Museum in GERMANY where the event happened? It IS on our tax dollars because Muse;ums come under a 501 c 3 tax exempt status and can get grant money. I believe there should be more WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION museums...that tragedy DID happen here and I want a big Museum for all my fallen southern ancestors who died fighting for the 10th amendment! TONES

[tangent4ronpaul]

FYI. The Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C is run by private donations and was built by private donations.

Actually...

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/December_2003/0312009.html

Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, December 2003, page 9

Special Report

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Decade of Increasing Taxpayer Funding

By Janet McMahon

Since it first opened 10 years ago, one of Washington, DC’s most popular attractions has been the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, located adjacent to the National Mall. Created by a unanimous Act of Congress in 1980, the Museum describes its primary mission as “to advance and disseminate knowledge about this unprecedented tragedy; to preserve the memory of those who suffered; and to encourage its visitors to reflect upon the moral and spiritual questions raised by the events of the Holocaust as well as their own responsibilities as citizens of a democracy.”

As its Web site, <http://www.ushmm.org>, explains, the museum was “built on land donated by the federal government and funded with more than 200,000 private donations…As required by law, all funds for planning, constructing and equipping the museum were raised exclusively from private, tax-deductible contributions.”

That was then, however. Now American taxpayers provide some 67 percent of the Holocaust Museum’s annual budget, this year to the tune of $38.4 million. Its funding for fiscal year 2004 was increased to $39,997,000. By comparison, this year the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts received less than $34 million in federal funding. That figure was cut to $32,560,000 for fiscal year 2004.

On Oct. 12, 2000, moreover, then-President Bill Clinton signed legislation granting the museum permanent status as a federal agency, in effect locking in federal support. As a museum press release explained at the time, “Permanent status permits Congress to provide funding without having to review the federal role. Every U.S. government entity requires congressional authority before funds can be allocated; but not every federal institution is given permanent status.”

It is Congress, of course, which allocates taxpayer dollars—specifically, in the case of the Holocaust Memorial Museum, the House Appropriations Committee’s subcommittee on interior and related agencies. In addition to the Department of Interior, “other agencies” for which the subcommittee is responsible include the National Endowments for the Arts and for the Humanities, the National Gallery of Art, the Smithsonian Institution, the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, and the Kenndy Center.

Washington Report readers who wish to keep track of how many of their tax dollars go to support the Holocaust Museum are therefore advised to pay attention to news reports on federal arts and humanities funding—and to continue reading beyond the first few paragraphs.

It’s not only the legislative branch which supports the Holocaust Memorial Museum, however. On Sept. 3 the Anti-Defamation League—which a few years ago was ordered to cease spying on American citizens—proudly announced that it had been awarded a $100,000 grant from the U.S. Department of Justice Office of Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) to support a joint ADL/Holocaust Memorial Museum training program for law enforcement professionals.

According to the ADL press release, the program “brings law enforcement officers to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC for an intensive program that challenges them to examine their relationship with the public and to explore issues of personal responsiblity and ethical conduct.”

Americans well might wonder why, at a time when a memorial to World War II veterans who died for this country only now is being undertaken, when a national museum dedicated to Native Americans is just being completed, and when ground is far from being broken for a museum devoted to African Americans—the latter two groups having suffered here, at the hands of this country—the U.S. government places a higher priority on a museum dedicated to the victims and survivors of a European horror.

Janet McMahon is managing editor of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.

[MRoCkEd]

i'd chip in for the historical museum of government violence

[tonesforjonesbones]

well of course...museums are funded by grants..that's our dough. tones

[pacelli]

Here's another question? Why is there a Holocaust museum in every dang STATE? Well, not in every state but they are workin on it. How many Holocaust artifacts can there possibly be? Why not have a Holocost Museum in GERMANY where the event happened? It IS on our tax dollars because Muse;ums come under a 501 c 3 tax exempt status and can get grant money. I believe there should be more WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION museums...that tragedy DID happen here and I want a big Museum for all my fallen southern ancestors who died fighting for the 10th amendment! TONES

List of Holocaust museums including 8 in Germany:

http://www.science.co.il/holocaust-museums.asp

US Holocaust Museum is 501c3:

The Museum is exempt from Federal taxes under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code

National Civil War Museum:

http://www.nationalcivilwarmuseum.org/index_1.php


The National Civil War Museum is a registered 501(c)(3) non-profit organization and a qualified funding recipient.

Confederate Civil War Museum:

http://www.confederatemuseum.com/

Hey look at that, the Confederate Museum is also a 501(c)3 nonprofit organization. Donations are tax deductible to the fullest extent of the law.


You've already got the museum requested, but I guess "playing the victim" has sidetracked your attention from noticing it.

[erowe1]

Lets see: Germany rounded up a lot of Jews, imprisoned them, forced labor and genocide. Germany makes sense for the location of such a Museum.

Israels population was the victim - yeah, they make sense for a good location.

The US was involved in freeing prisoners for a couple of weeks, as were the Russians, etc. So why us?

For that matter, how come the Holocaust rates a whole chapter in the history books, but all the other big ones aren't even mentioned? Didn't Stalin kill a lot more of his citizens than Hitler did, and it doesn't even deserve a footnote? What gives?

Maybe we should just pack the whole place up and ship it to Israel. It seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

-t

There are Holocaust museums all over the place, including the places you mentioned. None of them are considered "THE" Holocaust museum. But if one is, then it's probably Yad Va Shem in Jerusalem.

[Kraig]

Israels population was the victim - yeah, they make sense for a good location.

No, Israel didn't even exist at the time, European populations were the victim.

[RevolutionSD]

Someone told me that the Holocaust museum only lists 1,000,000 Jews killed instead of the 6,000,000 we are always told. Can anyone verify this? Given the fact that governments lie about everything, I wouldn't be surprised.

[tangent4ronpaul]

List of Holocaust museums including 8 in Germany:

http://www.science.co.il/holocaust-museums.asp

That's a LOT of museums!



US Holocaust Museum is 501c3:

The Museum is exempt from Federal taxes under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code

This doesn't make sense. The article above says the museum is a FEDERAL AGENCY, and federal agencies are tax exempt by default. Why does it have 501c3 status? Or did it just have that status in the beginning, before Clinton gave it permanent status?

I'm trying to wrap my brain around this... where does the federal government begin and end? I mean I expected the Smithsonian Institute, the Library of Congress and the National Archives to be federal agencies, but this one? How many other "federal agencies" are there out there? - museums, theaters, water parks, roller rinks, playgrounds... do these things become federal agencies when Congress creates them or gives them funds, or if they continue to get funds on a yearly basis? What exactly makes a museum a federal agency, and how many of these things are there out there?

Anyone know?

-t

[tron paul]

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

-Ayn Rand

The Holocaust Industry's franchises, aka Holocaust Museums, are the secular Temples of Guilt for the New World Orders' substitutes for religion, Victimology and Political Correctness.

Christ is replaced with Anne Frank in these New Cathedrals..."Remember children, she died for all of our sins. Especially yours."

[Vessol]

Someone told me that the Holocaust museum only lists 1,000,000 Jews killed instead of the 6,000,000 we are always told. Can anyone verify this? Given the fact that governments lie about everything, I wouldn't be surprised.

/tinfoil hat

[pacelli]

Someone told me that the Holocaust museum only lists 1,000,000 Jews killed instead of the 6,000,000 we are always told. Can anyone verify this? Given the fact that governments lie about everything, I wouldn't be surprised.

The main circular hall houses the extensive collection of “Pages of Testimony” – short biographies of each Holocaust victim. Over two million Pages are stored in the circular repository around the outer edge of the Hall, with room for six million in all.


In November 2004, the entire Names Database was uploaded to the Yad Vashem website at www.yadvashem.org where one can freely access information on the over 3 million Jewish victims identified so far, as well as submit additional names and information online.

http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_S5?New_WCM_Context=http://namescm.yadvashem.org/wps/wcm/connect/Yad+Vashem/Hall+Of+Names/Left+Links/en/About+Hall+of+Names

[paulim]

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

-Ayn Rand

The Holocaust Industry's franchises, aka Holocaust Museums, are the secular Temples of Guilt for the New World Orders' substitutes for religion, Victimology and Political Correctness.

Christ is replaced with Anne Frank in these New Cathedrals..."Remember children, she died for all of our sins. Especially yours."

Well spoken. Lately we had the discussion about symbolism and I stated the nwo-people killed symbolism by ridiculing it. I correct my remark: The people in charge hate any positive symbolism (what I regarded as symbolism only). On the other hand, surely I'm save to say there wasn't a time before, even not the middle ages, when the zeitgeist was that polluted with symolism of fear and hate.

This kind of symbols disappear under normal circumstances as fast as they come into being, because the human mind doesn't like to bother with them. For their continuos persistence a force is necessary that pushs them over and over again down the throats. Whether this symbols of fear have any scientific or historical base is of no importance, what matters is the fear factor. Look out for this people who push this stuff, no more evil ones ever existed.

[revolutionisnow]

Someone told me that the Holocaust museum only lists 1,000,000 Jews killed instead of the 6,000,000 we are always told. Can anyone verify this? Given the fact that governments lie about everything, I wouldn't be surprised.

Partly true. The official Auschwitz number and plaque used to be 4 million, but has been revised to 1.5 million. Somehow 6 - 2.5 = 6

Also, be glad that you are in America and daring to question the number,bring up this mathematical anomaly, or question any of the events that happened, as if you were in most of Europe the thought police could have you arrested and jailed.

http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/images/Auschwitz_plaque_4mil.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3654/3316808413_7e36bf8e09_m.jpg

Dr. Norman Finkelstein speaking about the holocaust industry
YouTube - Holocaust Industry shakedown racket, (huckstering the dead)Norman Finkelstein Santa Cruz 2006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3f9Zfj6ywc)

[slothman]

How come people only think of Jews when they hear of
the Holocaust?
11 million people were killed - over half of the Poles.
Do Jews only count?

[eduardo89]

Partly true. The official Auschwitz number and plaque used to be 4 million, but has been revised to 1.5 million. Somehow 6 - 2.5 = 6

Also, be glad that you are in America and daring to question the number,bring up this mathematical anomaly, or question any of the events that happened, as if you were in most of Europe the thought police could have you arrested and jailed.


Yeah I can't comment on this thread, I'm in Germany, I don't want to be arrested for questioning the "official, completely accurate" 6 million figure

[Kraig]

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

-Ayn Rand

The Holocaust Industry's franchises, aka Holocaust Museums, are the secular Temples of Guilt for the New World Orders' substitutes for religion, Victimology and Political Correctness.

Christ is replaced with Anne Frank in these New Cathedrals..."Remember children, she died for all of our sins. Especially yours."

A nice quote, too band Ayn Rand didn't realize that in order for government to crack down on criminals, they have to prey on innocent men for funding. :D

[raiha]

Originally Posted by VIDEODROME
If we build such things for people who became Americans you'd think there would be something for the Irish.

What are you talking about. Walk one block in a city and you're bound to find about three of those type of places.

:D Yup! God love us begorrah.

You are right Tones what about War of Northern Aggression? What about a museum commemorating WAR CRIMES against SOUTHERN CIVILIANS?(including towards African slaves)
And what about Rwanda, Darfur? Bosnia Herzgovinia? Chile under Pinochet; Panama, Nicaragua...all those CIA backed genocides. Museums needed urgently.

In those days there was not such gobal info on atrocities in other countries. The museums are great as a reminder of man's inhumanity to man ...who cares what race they are? It'd be good to visit the Holocaust Museums before passing judgement on them BTW.

We gotta remember what we could (each one of us) become in times of duress. If we are not aware of the monsters lurking within, we will be less equipped to deal with them when TSHTF.

[Flash]

www.OneThirdofTheHolocaust.com pretty interesting documentary on the Holocaust. Depends on what you personally believe I guess.

[Liberty Star]

Considering recent tragic events, perhaps State Dept or whichever dept handles museums should consider making Iraqi/Palestinian civilian tragedies part of these museums also. We can't change what happaned in the past but can change what happens in the present and the future.



Does anyone know if laws allow/prohibit remembering of all innocent civilian jewish/arab victims from recent wars in the Holocaust museums?

I had read that both people are semites, but that doesn't even have to be the reason. This could encourage some social/moral harmony among various people to agree on eleiminating man made destructions/elective violence and maybe an agreement on "never again" resolve for protection of civilians of all races and tribes.

What others think?

[Flash]

Never again will I burn my bagel.

[Sean]

Actually...

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/December_2003/0312009.html

Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, December 2003, page 9

Special Report

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Decade of Increasing Taxpayer Funding

By Janet McMahon

Since it first opened 10 years ago, one of Washington, DC’s most popular attractions has been the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, located adjacent to the National Mall. Created by a unanimous Act of Congress in 1980, the Museum describes its primary mission as “to advance and disseminate knowledge about this unprecedented tragedy; to preserve the memory of those who suffered; and to encourage its visitors to reflect upon the moral and spiritual questions raised by the events of the Holocaust as well as their own responsibilities as citizens of a democracy.”

As its Web site, <http://www.ushmm.org>, explains, the museum was “built on land donated by the federal government and funded with more than 200,000 private donations…As required by law, all funds for planning, constructing and equipping the museum were raised exclusively from private, tax-deductible contributions.”

That was then, however. Now American taxpayers provide some 67 percent of the Holocaust Museum’s annual budget, this year to the tune of $38.4 million. Its funding for fiscal year 2004 was increased to $39,997,000. By comparison, this year the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts received less than $34 million in federal funding. That figure was cut to $32,560,000 for fiscal year 2004.

On Oct. 12, 2000, moreover, then-President Bill Clinton signed legislation granting the museum permanent status as a federal agency, in effect locking in federal support. As a museum press release explained at the time, “Permanent status permits Congress to provide funding without having to review the federal role. Every U.S. government entity requires congressional authority before funds can be allocated; but not every federal institution is given permanent status.”

It is Congress, of course, which allocates taxpayer dollars—specifically, in the case of the Holocaust Memorial Museum, the House Appropriations Committee’s subcommittee on interior and related agencies. In addition to the Department of Interior, “other agencies” for which the subcommittee is responsible include the National Endowments for the Arts and for the Humanities, the National Gallery of Art, the Smithsonian Institution, the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, and the Kenndy Center.

Washington Report readers who wish to keep track of how many of their tax dollars go to support the Holocaust Museum are therefore advised to pay attention to news reports on federal arts and humanities funding—and to continue reading beyond the first few paragraphs.

It’s not only the legislative branch which supports the Holocaust Memorial Museum, however. On Sept. 3 the Anti-Defamation League—which a few years ago was ordered to cease spying on American citizens—proudly announced that it had been awarded a $100,000 grant from the U.S. Department of Justice Office of Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) to support a joint ADL/Holocaust Memorial Museum training program for law enforcement professionals.

According to the ADL press release, the program “brings law enforcement officers to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC for an intensive program that challenges them to examine their relationship with the public and to explore issues of personal responsiblity and ethical conduct.”

Americans well might wonder why, at a time when a memorial to World War II veterans who died for this country only now is being undertaken, when a national museum dedicated to Native Americans is just being completed, and when ground is far from being broken for a museum devoted to African Americans—the latter two groups having suffered here, at the hands of this country—the U.S. government places a higher priority on a museum dedicated to the victims and survivors of a European horror.

Janet McMahon is managing editor of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.

tangent4ronpaul thanks for setting that straight. I was pretty sure the museum was government funded.

[RSLudlum]

i'd chip in for the historical museum of government violence

LOL...I present to you "The Living Historical Museum of Government Violence"

http://farlane.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/earth-in-the-palm-of-your-hand.jpg

[tangent4ronpaul]

This doesn't make sense. The article above says the museum is a FEDERAL AGENCY, and federal agencies are tax exempt by default. Why does it have 501c3 status? Or did it just have that status in the beginning, before Clinton gave it permanent status?

I'm trying to wrap my brain around this... where does the federal government begin and end? I mean I expected the Smithsonian Institute, the Library of Congress and the National Archives to be federal agencies, but this one? How many other "federal agencies" are there out there? - museums, theaters, water parks, roller rinks, playgrounds... do these things become federal agencies when Congress creates them or gives them funds, or if they continue to get funds on a yearly basis? What exactly makes a museum a federal agency, and how many of these things are there out there?

Anyone know?

-t

Anyone?

-t