Shooting at Holocaust Museum in DC

[MsDoodahs]

2 transported to hospital....

[MsDoodahs]

Someone walked in with a rifle and opened fire.

Security Guards returned fire, gunman was shot and is in custody.

One police officer wounded.

Witnesses claim five gunshots fired.

[acptulsa]

Wonder who did it?

Wonder who's going to get blamed for it?

[MRoCkEd]

Wonder who did it?

a murderer

Wonder who's going to get blamed for it?
guns, anti-israel sentiment

[Brassmouth]

I guarantee that the tidbit about the guards using guns to stop the killer will be left out of the mainstream stories.

[Cowlesy]

Very sad.

Bought some SWHC on the off-chance the gunman used a semi-auto rifle and the dems all start harping about banning them again.

[ChooseLiberty]

Operative. Classic misdirect.

Remember the stories about "jews" painting swastikas on their own doors.

Jus sayin.

[Cowlesy]

Operative. Classic misdirect.

Remember the stories about "jews" painting swastikas on their own doors.

Jus sayin.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

More likely, a White Supremacist who hates jewish people.

Oh guess what!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6473316.ece

An 89 year old white supremacist. Old codger probably thought he'd go down in a blaze of glory.

Hopefully he'll croak in the hospital.

[Dieseler]

He had a WEB SITE to!
They're gonna start picking people up soon.
Be careful what you think, I mean write in your mind, I mean write on the intertubes.

[LibertyEagle]

All that jackass did was give the gun-grabbers more ammo.

[Reason]

CNN is interviewing reps from the SPLC who are talking about how this guy was "anti govt" because he was against the federal reserve, something about he wanted to kidnap members of the FED board.

[Reason]

YouTube - 2 Shot at D.C. Holocaust Museum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYfvs7iAqoE)

[Matt Collins]

They are TYING IT TO THE "END-THE-FED" MOVEMENT




The gunman has been identified as James Von Brunn, FOX News has learned, a man with apparent links to the white supremacist movement. A Web site believed to be his personal blog carries several anti-Semitic statements -- the site says he was a World War II veteran and also served time in federal prison for trying to make a "citizens arrest" of Federal Reserve Board members in 1981.SOURCE:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/10/shots-fired-national-holocaust-museum-dc/





.

[ChooseLiberty]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yeah, there are no operatives that do things like that. LOL.

Even little jewish princesses would never spray paint swastikas on their own doors and screech the nazi are out to get them.

Don't worry he'll be "croaked" before he gets to talk to the media.




:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

More likely, a White Supremacist who hates jewish people.

Oh guess what!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6473316.ece

An 89 year old white supremacist. Old codger probably thought he'd go down in a blaze of glory.

Hopefully he'll croak in the hospital.

[Matt Collins]

They are TYING IT TO THE "END-THE-FED" MOVEMENT




The gunman has been identified as James Von Brunn, FOX News has learned, a man with apparent links to the white supremacist movement. A Web site believed to be his personal blog carries several anti-Semitic statements -- the site says he was a World War II veteran and also served time in federal prison for trying to make a "citizens arrest" of Federal Reserve Board members in 1981.SOURCE:

[/URL][URL]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/10/shots-fired-national-holocaust-museum-dc/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/10/shots-fired-national-holocaust-museum-dc/)





.

[max]

A MONSTER like The Fed will pull out all the stops and use every trick in the book to hold its power.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a CIA op.




.

[Reason]

Here is the shooters website

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:Sl63eVUl2o4J:www.holywesternempire. org/page2.html+james+w+von+brunn&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[JoshLowry]

Meh. They are also linking him to WWII Veterans.

People have a past, nothing wrong reporting on it. These types of stories often include past convictions.

[Reason]

From his website

http://www.holywesternempire.org/graphics/James_von_Brunn.jpg

"James W. von Brunn holds a BachSci Journalism degree from a mid-Western university where he was president of SAE and played varsity football.

During WWII he served as PT-Boat captain, Lt. USNR, receiving a Commendation and four battle stars. For twenty years he was an advertising executive and film-producer in New York City. He is a member of Mensa, the high-IQ society.

In 1981 Von Brunn attempted to place the treasonous Federal Reserve Board of Governors under legal, non-violent, citizens arrest. He was tried in a Washington, D.C. Superior Court; convicted by a Negro jury, Jew/Negro attorneys, and sentenced to prison for eleven years by a Jew judge. A Jew/Negro/White Court of Appeals denied his appeal. He served 6.5 years in federal prison. (Read about von Brunn's "Federal Reserve Caper" HERE.) He is now an artist and author and lives on Maryland's Eastern Shore.

Tob Shebbe Goyim Harog is the culmination of his life's work. "

[eduardo89]

obviously they try and link us to white supremacists...they're scared that the truth will come out so they place the racist card

[SamuraisWisdom]

Meh. They are also linking him to WWII Veterans.

People have a past, nothing wrong reporting on it. These types of stories often include past convictions.

Thank you for injecting some reason into this thread.

[Reason]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=195391

[Dieseler]

Muzzletoe?

[Matt Collins]

Fox News is now interviewing a former CIA ops officer about the suspect...

[Pericles]

Let's see, we have a (A) racist (B) FED opponent (C) military vet - if only he was a militia member just about all of the bases would be covered. Maybe he voted constition party .... does he have a "don't tread on me" sticker?

[LibertyEagle]

We probably ought to be a little thoughtful about the thread titles we use, or else we're just advertising this stance on Google.

[Young Paleocon]

I think Austrian economics and it's views on central banking are pretty safe from being lumped in with these conspiracy nutters because some of the most prominent Austrians were Jews i.e. Mises and Rothbard.

[Cowlesy]

Meh. They are also linking him to WWII Veterans.

People have a past, nothing wrong reporting on it. These types of stories often include past convictions.

This.

[haaaylee]

didn't exactly say "End the Fed" anywhere. . . .. just honest reporting on his past. Get over it.

[max]

didn't exactly say "End the Fed" anywhere. . . .. just honest reporting on his past. Get over it.

it's coming...you'll see

MSM will use this to link anti-FED rhetoric with domestic terrorism.

[LibertyEagle]

Threads merged.

[Matt Collins]

didn't exactly say "End the Fed" anywhere. . . .. just honest reporting on his past. Get over it.Of course not, doesn't have to. In the mind of the general public they just have to tie the "anti-federal reserve" people to this criminal, and it's called "transfer".

This was a common tactic used by the Nazi's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_(propaganda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_%28propaganda))




.

[paulitics]

it's coming...you'll see

MSM will use this to link anti-FED rhetoric with domestic terrorism.

I don't think they will go into explaining it MAX. It is more effective if they simply mention it (reporting it as a matter of fact) without going into detail. This will then enter into people's subconscious mind, so that when and if ending the federal reserve becomes a hot topic, this will pop up, "hey didn't that terrorist want to end the fed too?" Most people don't even know what the federal reserve is. They don't want them to think too deeply about it, just associate the words "racist, federal reserve, veteran, etc together.

[max]

I don't think they will go into explaining it MAX. It is more effective if they simply mention it (reporting it as a matter of fact) without going into detail. This will then enter into people's subconscious mind, so that when and if ending the federal reserve becomes a hot topic, this will pop up, "hey didn't that terrorist want to end the fed too?" Most people don't even know what the federal reserve is. They don't want them to think too deeply about it, just associate the words "racist, federal reserve, veteran, etc together.

thats right.....

That's exactly how they did it back in the early 90's. They started a mild, subtle buzz about militias and extremists one year in advance of Oklahoma.

When the Murrah building blew up, the public was already pre-conditioned to suspecting "right wing extremists."

The militias disbanded and the NRA took a major hit as well...

[Monolithic]

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8938/c3a30351b6c3d0415b09af4.jpg

dundundun

[Monolithic]

oh yeah he's also been a freerepublic poster since 2006, his threads have been yanked by admins of course today because they don't want bad press

google cache of one of his threads: http://209.157.64.200/tag/by:wannabegeek/index?more=44896521

[Crash Martinez]

We probably ought to be a little thoughtful about the thread titles we use, or else we're just advertising this stance on Google.

no offense, but screw that.

[Dieseler]

I wonder if Dude posted here... I don't recognize the writing style yet.

[Crash Martinez]

I wonder if Dude posted here... I don't recognize the writing style yet.

Who says he was a RP supporter?

[mczerone]

I think Austrian economics and it's views on central banking are pretty safe from being lumped in with these conspiracy nutters because some of the most prominent Austrians were Jews i.e. Mises and Rothbard.

You'd think so, but we're not dealing with people who are making rational arguments to rational people.

The Statists know that a certain number of people will believe the first thing that they hear for a description of a person or group, regardless of later contradictory evidence, and so the very first thing done to criticize Liberty, Austrian Econ, RP, or even the LP is to use slick language and baseless claims that make a negative emotional correlation, regardless of the veracity of the statement.

It's a crude "shoot first, ask Qs later" strategy that some evildoer learned from Psych 101.

[Crash Martinez]

True. Who knows how many votes were lost to the "Ron Paul is a racist" smear.

[MikeStanart]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6473316.ece


An 89-year-old white supremacist and Holocaust denier opened fire in Washington’s Holocaust Museum today, wounding at least one before being shot in the head by security officers.

James W von Brunn, who was charged and convicted in 1981 for running towards the boardroom of Washington’s Federal Reserve building with a shotgun, entered the Holocaust Museum just before 1pm and opened fire “indiscriminately” with a long rifle. Witnesses said that he had parked his red car directly outside, displaying a disabled badge.

A guard was immediately hit, before two other security officers at the heavily guarded museum, less than a mile from the White House, hit von Brunn in the head with return fire. He was taken to George Washington Hospital in a critical condition. Officials said he may not survive. Adrian Fenty, the Mayor of Washington, said the security guard was in a “grave condition”.

The shooting, at one of Washington’s most popular tourist destinations – filled today with schoolchildren - came after a visit last week by President Obama to the Buchenwald Concentration Camp near Dresden, in Germany. It sparked alarm in the heart of the US capital and caused most of the National Mall to be closed down.

Related Links
Obama sends message on Buchenwald visit
Obama's visit to Buchenwald holds message
Obama's America is good for you
Von Brunn, who claims on his own website to have been a decorated PT-boat captain and lieutenant in the US Navy during World War II, has written a book entitled ‘Kill the Best Gentiles!” According to its preface, its purpose it “to present WHITE YOUTH” with factual information to explain that an “age old CONSPIRACY does exist to destroy Western Civilisation.”

Von Brunn also has a Wikipedia user profile in which he champions the virtues of Western culture and the practice of eugenics. In another article he claims that Holocaust history is destroying Western civilization.

He is clearly a Holocaust denier – a belief decried by Mr Obama during his speech to the Muslim world in Cairo last week. Von Brunn bemoans that “Jews control all important sources of information”, and claims that there is a Jewish conspiracy to destroy the white gene pool. He also wrote: “America is a Third-World racial garbage-dump – stupid, ignorant, dead broke, and terminal. Whites LOVE their Enemies. Prepare to die, Whitey.” One of heroes he cites is World War II Real Admiral John Crommelin, a notorious anti-Semite who later ran for governor of Alabama.

In 1981, von Brunn entered the Federal Reserve in Washington with a shotgun to make a citizens arrest, he later said, to protest about high interest rates. He was sentenced to 11 years in jail.

On his website, he claims he was convicted by a “Negro jury, Jew /Negro attorneys, and sentenced to prison for eleven years by a Jew judge. A Jew/Negro/White Court of Appeals denied his appeal.”

Robert Gibbs, Mr Obama’s White House spokesman, said the president was “saddened” by the attack, had “asked about the condition of the guard, and is obviously concerned for the security guard.”

The Holocaust Museum has had 28 million visitors since it was opened in 1993, including 88 heads of state. It houses exhibits and records relating to the Holocaust more than a half century ago, in which more than six million Jews were murdered by the Nazis. It is well guarded by armed security officers and all visitors have to pass through metal detectors as they enter.

Cathy Lanier, Washington’s police chief said there had been no prior warning of the attack. Museum officials said the museum was full at the time of the shooting, with at least 2,000 visitors inside.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So....a crazy White Supremicist who hates the FED went on a shooting rampage at a holocaust museum. I wonder how the Mass Media will spin this?

"All people who are against the FED are crazy white supremacist who need their guns taken from them"..... lovely.

[Dieseler]

Who says he was a RP supporter?

Who said you have to be to post here?

[pacelli]

FoxNews now reporting "This guy is linked to the 9/11 truth organization".

[Dreamofunity]

Great. Fucking white supremacy assholes.

[Dianne]

Now that CNN's poll shows that over 60% of americans believe Bin Laden is dead, the new domestic terrorist threat (according to CNN's guests a few moments ago) are Americans who are anti federal government, anti federal tax, and supportive of seceding from US Fed. control.

The guests were trying to convince the general public, that they and their families can be gunned down at any time by someone that doesn't like the way the country is going..... They are definitely working on a case to end free speech in the USA, censor the internet and censor any american that thinks the Obama administration is full of *)&(*&().

[He Who Pawns]

He's a 911 Troofer, too. :rolleyes:

[Dieseler]

Just another nail in the coffin lid of The Home of the free and the Land of the Brave.

[axiomata]

In 1981, von Brunn entered the Federal Reserve in Washington with a shotgun to make a citizens arrest, he later said, to protest about high interest rates. He was sentenced to 11 years in jail.

Well he can't be tied to the Austrians at least.

[MsDoodahs]

Just another nail in the coffin lid of The Home of the free and the Land of the Brave.

Sad as it is, yep.

[Young Paleocon]

Well he can't be tied to the Austrians at least.

Yes, according to his website and his blog about his run in at the FED, he considers the Jewish conspiracy with central banks to be facilitated through usury and stealing through interest rates. This is the antithesis of Austrian thought as they realize time preference and the cost of money, so his economic thought has more in common with Shariah law than Austrian economics.

[paulim]

Well he can't be tied to the Austrians at least.

Not true. The austrians don't say the interest rates set by the FED were always too low. They say the rates were always wrong. In 1981 that could have been too high.

[AutoDas]

This is a false flag! Obama is going to usher in martial law for his jewish overlords!

[paulitics]

oh yeah he's also been a freerepublic poster since 2006, his threads have been yanked by admins of course today because they don't want bad press

google cache of one of his threads: http://209.157.64.200/tag/by:wannabegeek/index?more=44896521


How do you know this is the same guy? I'm not doubting you, but did he say his name, or was an investigation already done on this guy's IP address and every website he visited being publicised?

[Matt Collins]

True. Who knows how many votes were lost to the "Ron Paul is a racist" smear.Not many.

He lost due to:
1- media working against him (partly Benton's fault)
2- his foreign policy was seen as "weak", "blame America first", and was too intelligent to be broken into soundbites - besides the fact he didn't do a good job of explaining it to the average voter. If you're on these forums you are not an average voter obviously
3- his age and lack of 'charisma' / needed an image consultant

[Matt Collins]

So....a crazy White Supremicist who hates the FED went on a shooting rampage at a holocaust museum. I wonder how the Mass Media will spin this?

"All people who are against the FED are crazy white supremacist who need their guns taken from them"..... lovely.
That's my fear which is why I brought this to everyone's attention.



-Matt

[LDBurnell]

This is a weak link at best...This doesn't concern me that much. We can still get HR 1207 through!!! Stick together!

[Danke]

They sure had a lot of information on this guy shortly after the mayhem.

[revolutionisnow]

Wonder if it is just a lunatic looking to go out with a bang or if there is any mkultra type involvement

the timing of the event is suspicious

[max]

In a weird way...it could have the effect of making people question the FED:

"Gee, what did the FED do to set a guy off like that."...

or am I overstating Joe six-pack's and Suzy soccer mom's capacity for critical thought?

[max]

Wonder if it is just a lunatic looking to go out with a bang or if there is any mkultra type involvement

the timing of the event is suspicious

just days after that abortionist was whacked too......

fits in nicely with that Homeland Security warning. We had the "terrorist" pro-lifer...the terrorist anti-semite.......perhaps the next event will be carried out by a Ron Paul supporter

[ChooseLiberty]

Ding Ding Ding.


A MONSTER like The Fed will pull out all the stops and use every trick in the book to hold its power.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a CIA op.




.

[Matt Collins]

In a weird way...it could have the effect of making people question the FED:

"Gee, what did the FED do to set a guy off like that."...

or am I overstating Joe six-pack's and Suzy soccer mom's capacity for critical thought?
Count the people who voted for either McCain or Obama last election and then get back to me on that. :rolleyes: :(:(:(:(

[FrankRep]

Shooter linked to 9/11 truth movement

http://www.nowhampshire.com/2009/06/10/holocaust-museum-suspect-was-a-911-%E2%80%9Ctruther%E2%80%9D/

http://www.drudgereport.com/

[revolutionisnow]

just days after that abortionist was whacked too......

fits in nicely with that Homeland Security warning. We had the "terrorist" pro-lifer...the terrorist anti-semite.......perhaps the next event will be carried out by a Ron Paul supporter

The people are so easily manipulated by the media coverage of these events also. There are multiple murders in every city around the country every night, but the media does not research their political affiliation,what websites they visited or had, or broadcast the events nationwide.

[paulitics]

In a weird way...it could have the effect of making people question the FED:

"Gee, what did the FED do to set a guy off like that."...

or am I overstating Joe six-pack's and Suzy soccer mom's capacity for critical thought?

The media is not stupid, if they want to milk this.
99% of people will not even remember this little tidbit, until a debate comes up in the future about the federal reserve...the subconscious will kick in, and associate it with white supremicist and violence. The pre-emptive attack goes like this Terrorism - white supremicist - political beliefs - federal reserve.

Right now, they are 90% focusing on white supremecist and violence, and terrorism. Veteran, federal reserve, and militia will be tucked in deep into the subconscious of people's minds like Timothy McVeigh and others.

After the DHS report was leaked, enough of it was embedded deep into people's minds to where I am now seeing people begging the DHS to pre-emptively investigate people on that report.

[paulim]

In a weird way...it could have the effect of making people question the FED:

"Gee, what did the FED do to set a guy off like that."...

or am I overstating Joe six-pack's and Suzy soccer mom's capacity for critical thought?

I think that was his intention. He was likely to die with this performance and surely he has the age, you can sacrifice your life more easily.
However, people still listen to the spin. The MSM is still strong, I wouldn't bet on a pleasant outcome.

[literatim]

As economies crumble, violence increases.

The mainstream media has tried catapulting their agenda off the back of Tiller's actions and has pretty much failed. This will be no different. Almost everyone right now is too focused on their own financial situation to be scared of any domestic boogieman they are trying to create.

[fedup100]

All that jackass did was give the gun-grabbers more ammo.

So true. In the mean time we have muslem jihadist, american ones killing our soldiers on American soil and it's no big deal.

[fedup100]

Shooter linked to 9/11 truth movement

http://www.nowhampshire.com/2009/06/10/holocaust-museum-suspect-was-a-911-%E2%80%9Ctruther%E2%80%9D/

http://www.drudgereport.com/

Oh yes and Michael Medved pointed out on his show today that stormfront raised money for RP, just threw it our there and hoped guilt through association would stick!!! What a slime bucket.

[emazur]

Just watched a segment from Baier on Fox News - he attempted to publish a book that, among other things, was anti-Rockefeller.

They also showed how he attempted a citizen's arrest of Volcker for high interest rates in the early 80s. That's actually the opposite view of ours as our problem is the Fed keeping interest rates too low (and of course we don't believe in the violent tactics this guy uses, so again it's the opposite of our views)

[Dr.3D]

What kind of an idiot would shoot people in a museum who are not even the kind of people he claimed to hate?

I'm pretty sure, most of the people in the museum are gentiles and are there to look at the exhibits. This makes no sense at all. If he hated Jews so much, one would think he would go where Jews are and not where gentiles are.

There is a sudden amount of information about this guy and it is coming way too fast. Since when does a crime happen and then on TV they suddenly have all the information on the suspect within an hour or two? This does not add up to a normal situation, but rather something that was made up to happen and the facts being already on the reporters desks before the crime ever happened.

[dannno]

Since when does a crime happen and then on TV they suddenly have all the information on the suspect within an hour or two?


You'd be awfully surprised ;)

[axiomata]

Not true. The austrians don't say the interest rates set by the FED were always too low. They say the rates were always wrong. In 1981 that could have been too high.
You missed the point. My point is that this guy is not coming to his end the fed position from an Austrian analysis, but rather from a 'the Jews are stealing my money through high interest rates analysis'. As far as I know, most Austrians applauded Volker's high interest rates in 1981 as necessary to prevent runaway inflation. That doesn't mean that they don't of course prefer interest rates to be set by the market.

[Kade]

All that jackass did was give the gun-grabbers more ammo.

Indeed. Last thing we need is any more real reasons for people to debate us openly.

[Bman]

Indeed. Last thing we need is any more real reasons for people to debate us openly.

How about hands. Hands can kill people maybe we should chop them off at birth.

[Andrew-Austin]

Indeed. Last thing we need is any more real reasons for people to debate us openly.

The last thing gun grabbers are capable of doing is making a rational argument for their position. Its just the same old reactionary "zomg someone died from a gun they should be banned" nonsense that has been refuted ten times over by now. LE seemed to be conveying dismay that the same old tripe would mindlessly be rehashed due to this tragedy, that is not really the same thing as regretting debate. Its not really a debate to begin with when gun controllers are completely oblivious to arguments against gun control, its just one side exploiting a tragedy in order to make a shitty reactionary argument.

[Kade]

How about hands. Hands can kill people maybe we should chop them off at birth.

I'd be interested in debating the people who use that line of argument.

[Kade]

The last thing gun grabbers are capable of doing is making a rational argument for their position. Its just a reactionary "zomg someone died from a gun they should be banned" nonsense that has been refuted ten times over by now.

I think, to be fair, they also might believe that guns give weak people, in mind and in body, an unequal platform of power (as opposed to someone who may have the wealth, intellect, and physical power through self-made means). I doubt they would say that publicly however...

[Bman]

I'd be interested in debating the people who use that line of argument.

Go for it. Why not ban everything that can kill a human being? It's what you're saying isn't it (ban guns because guns can be used to kill people)?

[Kade]

Go for it. Why not ban everything that can kill a human being? It's what you're saying isn't it (ban guns because guns can be used to kill people)?

Two logical fallacies in one...

A converse error, or affirming the consequent;
If P, then Q. Q. Therefore, P

And of course, it's also a pretty blatant non sequitur, or a fallacy of false cause.

[tpreitzel]

Notice that these "lone" gunmen mostly seem to go after non-influential people in government or "innocent" bystanders. If you're going to waste your life, go for the gusto, ;) i.e. the influential, behind the scene manipulators...j/k ;) , but the alleged or implied motives of these "lone" gunmen are suspicious and this latest tragedy is no exception.

[fedup100]

Oh please, if this had happened at the Christian museum it wouldn't be a story. I smell another set up.

[Kade]

Oh please, if this had happened at the Christian museum it wouldn't be a story. I smell another set up.

Christian museum?

You must mean:

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/jp3/image/jp3-neill-raptors.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

Beck says "9/11 truthers and neo nazis will work with anyone to destroy the country".

YouTube - GLENN BECK SAYS 9/11 TRUTHERS ARE DESTROYING AMERICA , CONTINUES FOX'S SHILL CAMPAIGN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUTATYaIZYI)

But he gives his seal of approval to "ending the fed".

Apparently, that passes the Glenn Beck test.

For the record, I'm a "truther", Beck claims that this fellow is "hero to truthers"...I never heard of him.

So, an abortion doctor killing, Islamic shooters killing a recruiting officer and now this.

I'm calling shenanigans.

[Arnack]

The government should keep tabs on such hateful organizations. This man was apart of an organization which could be found online (which is currently offline right now). He posted numerous messages of pure hate for the Jewish race and pure hate for many other things. This could have never happened if we were more careful.

[Anti Federalist]

The government should keep tabs on such hateful organizations. This man was apart of an organization which could be found online (which is currently offline right now). He posted numerous messages of pure hate for the Jewish race and pure hate for many other things. This could have never happened if we were more careful.

By all means, the new "cyber czar" should have the power to arrest people preemptively, based on what they say.

There are bills in Congress right now that will authorize that.

:rolleyes:

[Kade]

So, an abortion doctor killing, Islamic shooters killing a recruiting officer and now this.

I'm calling shenanigans.

My friend,

I did "call" much of this... I'm honestly surprised there isn't more of it...

Terrorism is, to quote several sources: "a policy or ideology of violence intended to intimidate or cause terror for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies.""

Regardless of the label some may attribute to these people, they are of the same camps. Notably, I wouldn't be half surprised if one or two of them came from this forum.

[Arnack]

By all means, the new "cyber czar" should have the power to arrest people preemptively, based on what they say.

There are bills in Congress right now that will authorize that.

:rolleyes:
Hehe. Quite over the line, don't you think! But indeed, people that are apart of such hate groups so publicly, especially over the internet, should be watched over. As I said, it would have prevented the death of a dedicated security guard this day, and of course, many more people to come.
And by the way, that's not the cyber czar's duty, you might have been misinformed. It's basically to inform and update large corporations on website-security related issues to prevent future hacking. You do know, most of internet fraud and information stealing can be prevented with a simple upgrade (say, a mySQL security upgrade?).

[tpreitzel]

Beck really is a piece of work... ;) I rarely listen to his drivel as he's a superficial, duplicitous showman at heart. Glenn, I'm sorry to inform you, but 9/11 was an inside job which is now conclusively proven to include elements other than Arabic fanatics. You, Glenn, are an obstructionist to justice in the tragic events of 9/11. Maybe, you can take your idiotic tirade out on the architects and engineers of ae911truth.org as well as your viewers.

[Bman]

Two logical fallacies in one...

A converse error, or affirming the consequent;
If P, then Q. Q. Therefore, P

And of course, it's also a pretty blatant non sequitur, or a fallacy of false cause.

Not really.

Killing = killing.

Now why do you want guns banned?

[Anti Federalist]

My friend,

I did "call" much of this... I'm honestly surprised there isn't more of it...

Terrorism is, to quote several sources: "a policy or ideology of violence intended to intimidate or cause terror for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies.""

Regardless of the label some may attribute to these people, they are of the same camps. Notably, I wouldn't be half surprised if one or two of them came from this forum.

It depends on who they're working for.

Terrorism is "a policy of violence carried out against the people, in order to allow state bodies to make decisions that otherwise would not be tolerated." ;)

[Kade]

Hehe. Quite over the line, don't you think! But indeed, people that are apart of such hate groups so publicly, especially over the internet, should be watched over. As I said, it would have prevented the death of a dedicated security guard this day, and of course, many more people to come.
And by the way, that's not the cyber czar's duty, you might have been misinformed. It's basically to inform and update large corporations on website-security related issues to prevent future hacking. You do know, most of internet fraud and information stealing can be prevented with a simple upgrade (say, a mySQL security upgrade?).

In my opinion, the growing Rightwing violence is certainly terrorism... but abusing cherished freedoms, by say, listening in on private forums, is unacceptable, regardless of the lives it may save. Perhaps these organizations should be more mindful of the tax payer coin used to promote the profit driven entities that entice these people in the first place, Clear Channel, Newscorp, etc.


And you are correct about the "cyber czar"'s role. I imagine you are new here... that sort of thinking does not go well.

[Kade]

Now why do you want guns banned?

You'll have to quote me in where I said that... I'm forgetful, and it certainly doesn't sound like something I would write.

[Bman]

You'll have to quote me in where I said that... I'm forgetful, and it certainly doesn't sound like something I would write.

Sorry then I must have misunderstood your comment to Liberty Eagle.

[Anti Federalist]

Hehe. Quite over the line, don't you think! But indeed, people that are apart of such hate groups so publicly, especially over the internet, should be watched over. As I said, it would have prevented the death of a dedicated security guard this day, and of course, many more people to come.
And by the way, that's not the cyber czar's duty, you might have been misinformed. It's basically to inform and update large corporations on website-security related issues to prevent future hacking. You do know, most of internet fraud and information stealing can be prevented with a simple upgrade (say, a mySQL security upgrade?).

Not over the line at all.

Everything is already "watched".

Descriptions of specific actions will get you arrested. You are suggesting that the next course of action is to arrest non specific speech.

'Course, that's already in place in Europe and people have gone jail for impolitic speech.

And I'm well aware of the "stated" mission of the cyber czar.

I'm also fully aware of "mission creep". Pass the "cyber bullying" act, and that will become a part of his job as well.

[Kade]

Sorry then I must have misunderstood your comment to Liberty Eagle.

You might have mistaken my disgust of hypocrisy and closing of minds as a defense of a position.

[Anti Federalist]

You might have mistaken my disgust of hypocrisy and closing of minds as a defense of a position.

You're well rested, I see.:p

[Arnack]

In my opinion, the growing Rightwing violence is certainly terrorism... but abusing cherished freedoms, by say, listening in on private forums, is unacceptable, regardless of the lives it may save. Perhaps these organizations should be more mindful of the tax payer coin used to promote the profit driven entities that entice these people in the first place, Clear Channel, Newscorp, etc.


And you are correct about the "cyber czar"'s role. I imagine you are new here... that sort of thinking does not go well.
Sure, listening in on private forums is extremely unacceptable. People who are given rights to the forums or websites should be the only ones with admission into the website, and not the government. But the man who killed the guard today posted publicly on a public website for all to view, even the government. You can still cherish your 1st amendment freedoms, nothing is stopping you ;)



Not over the line at all.

Everything is already "watched".

Descriptions of specific actions will get you arrested. You are suggesting that the next course of action is to arrest non specific speech.

'Course, that's already in place in Europe and people have gone jail for impolitic speech.

And I'm well aware of the "stated" mission of the cyber czar.

I'm also fully aware of "mission creep". Pass the "cyber bullying" act, and that will become a part of his job as well.

The cyber czar himself won't commence the arrest, I was simply correcting you there.

[Bman]

You might have mistaken my disgust of hypocrisy and closing of minds as a defense of a position.

That I can understand.

[Brian4Liberty]

Next up: He was the leader of an anarchist militia... :rolleyes:

[Kade]

Sure, listening in on private forums is extremely unacceptable. People who are given rights to the forums or websites should be the only ones with admission into the website, and not the government. But the man who killed the guard today posted publicly on a public website for all to view, even the government. You can still cherish your 1st amendment freedoms, nothing is stopping you ;)



A public website? If the site were public, which I imagine it was not, I daresay that the public forum is where free speech should be most heavily guarded against the watchful and judgmental eye of big brother.

[Anti Federalist]

Next up: He was the leader of an anarchist militia... :rolleyes:

No, that will be the next op.

These are just "previews".

There will be, sad to say, a much larger, state sponsored or orchestrated event, in the coming months, that will be hung around the necks of the "rightwing lunatics" and "conspiracy theorists". (That's us, in case you didn't know)

The "movement" will end up shattered, most of the "hanky wringers" will retreat into silence, and the globalist agenda will be back on track, full speed ahead.

[Arnack]

A public website? If the site were public, which I imagine it was not, I daresay that the public forum is where free speech should be most heavily guarded against the watchful and judgmental eye of big brother.
As I said, it was not public, and if you watch the news (or at least, I am at the moment) they have been publicly accessing the many comments he has posted on his website over a series of years. Free speech is one thing, but a series of hateful and aggressive comments over the course of years, quite frankly, it could have been stopped.
Believe me, I'm not saying arrest the man because he said "down with the Jews!" on his own website, but the clues were quite obvious.

[Anti Federalist]

As I said, it was not public, and if you watch the news (or at least, I am at the moment) they have been publicly accessing the many comments he has posted on his website over a series of years. Free speech is one thing, but a series of hateful and aggressive comments over the course of years, quite frankly, it could have been stopped.
Believe me, I'm not saying arrest the man because he said "down with the Jews!" on his own website, but the clues were quite obvious.

How could it have been stopped, if not arresting and prosecuting him for what he said?

[Kade]

As I said, it was not public, and if you watch the news (or at least, I am at the moment) they have been publicly accessing the many comments he has posted on his website over a series of years. Free speech is one thing, but a series of hateful and aggressive comments over the course of years, quite frankly, it could have been stopped.
Believe me, I'm not saying arrest the man because he said "down with the Jews!" on his own website, but the clues were quite obvious.

I am willing to accept the inconvenience of one man's moronic rantings to avoid any government entanglement into the realm of free thought and speech. I think the greater evil is the Bill O'Reillys, Limbaughs, Becks, Levins, and Hannitys who are given the public ear with little or no debate or criticism.

No one person's hate should be a justification for the government oversight of our speech.

I don't know what the government could have done, or should have done, to anyone ranting and raving as such. Society tends to deal with these people accordingly, unless it becomes socially acceptable... then we have a different problem altogether.

[Kludge]

*snip*

Oooh, you're back, too.

WB.

[Kade]

How could it have been stopped, if not arresting and prosecuting him for what he said?

This is the form of my protest to this line of reasoning as well...

[Anti Federalist]

Oooh, you're back, too.

WB.

Thank you.

Good to be back, after weeks of the briny deep.

[Arnack]

How could it have been stopped, if not arresting and prosecuting him for what he said?
Good point to bring up. As I said, this man has posted numerous messages on the internet over the course of 10 years or so. As you can see, each message or post you can see even more hate and more hate. In the case of this particular shooting, your right, it could quite possibly not be stopped. But in other cases, in the past, and most likely in the future, there will be more posts, more messages from the same people who state THEMSELVES that they are going to do terroristic acts. I'm not entirely sure if this shooter in this incident said himself he was going to something aggressive, but I am just providing examples.
But, in the end, it is America. The Ku Klux Klan rallies are protected by squadrons of police, while they scream "Kill all the..." and so on. If you don't like it, leave.

[Kade]

Good point to bring up. As I said, this man has posted numerous messages on the internet over the course of 10 years or so. As you can see, each message or post you can see even more hate and more hate. In the case of this particular shooting, your right, it could quite possibly not be stopped. But in other cases, in the past, and most likely in the future, there will be more posts, more messages from the same people who state THEMSELVES that they are going to do terroristic acts. I'm not entirely sure if this shooter in this incident said himself he was going to something aggressive, but I am just providing examples.
But, in the end, it is America. The Ku Klux Klan rallies are protected by squadrons of police, while they scream "Kill all the..." and so on. If you don't like it, leave.

I love those demonstrations. What an opportunity.

I can get them so angry sometimes they actually will show intent to harm me, usually causing them to get arrested.

And go figure, all I do is talk.

[James Madison]

It'll come out in the next few days this guy was on an anti-depresent. This kind of behavior is synonymous with hallucinagens like LSD and Prozac.

[Anti Federalist]

Good point to bring up. As I said, this man has posted numerous messages on the internet over the course of 10 years or so. As you can see, each message or post you can see even more hate and more hate. In the case of this particular shooting, your right, it could quite possibly not be stopped. But in other cases, in the past, and most likely in the future, there will be more posts, more messages from the same people who state THEMSELVES that they are going to do terroristic acts. I'm not entirely sure if this shooter in this incident said himself he was going to something aggressive, but I am just providing examples.
But, in the end, it is America. The Ku Klux Klan rallies are protected by squadrons of police, while they scream "Kill all the..." and so on. If you don't like it, leave.

Thank you for acknowledging the point that I and Kade were making.

As to the rest, like I stated before, everything you say or do is already under surveillance, a specific threat against a named target with places and times will normally result in your swift arrest.

To the bold, yes, that is the case, as it stands now.

There is pending legislation in Congress right now that will change that.

"Hateful" speech, and nothing more, will be grounds for arrest in the not too distant future.

[Arnack]

Thank you for acknowledging the point that I and Kade were making.

As to the rest, like I stated before, everything you say or do is already under surveillance, a specific threat against a named target with places and times will normally result in your swift arrest.

To the bold, yes, that is the case, as it stands now.

There is pending legislation in Congress right now that will change that.

"Hateful" speech, and nothing more, will be grounds for arrest in the not too distant future.
Indeed. I'm all for the first amendment. But when speech gets specific enough such as: "lets go on this street and kill this person, blah blah" it can be stopped ahead of time, quite simply. This isn't infringing on anyone's rights besides the people who want to do deathly harm on people.

[reagle]

This is a weak link at best...This doesn't concern me that much. We can still get HR 1207 through!!! Stick together!

Welcome to the forums



wayback archives for holywesternempire.org
http://web.archive.org/web/*/holywesternempire.org

[Reason]

Listen to them justify the MIAC report

YouTube - The Day in 100 Seconds: Shooting at The Holocaust Museum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh0f4iQA6Aw)

[Kade]

Listen to them justify the MIAC report



Doesn't sound like justification as much as it sounds like identification.

[0zzy]

Why is this big news everywhere?
There are murders going on all the time.

[RonPaulR3VOLUTION]

Surely the hundreds, if not thousands, of Obama supporters who have murdered, raped, and robbed show they are a far more dangerous group, especially when compared to these isolated incidents.
Who could be against monitoring these dangerous Obama-supporting individuals? Who could be for more murder of the innocent?
/s

Worth repeating:
"The people are so easily manipulated by the media coverage of these events also. There are multiple murders in every city around the country every night, but the media does not research their political affiliation,what websites they visited or had, or broadcast the events nationwide."

[Arnack]

Surely the hundreds, if not thousands, of Obama supporters who have murdered, raped, and robbed show they are a far more dangerous group, especially when compared to these isolated incidents.
Who could be against monitoring these dangerous Obama-supporting individuals? Who could be for more murder of the innocent?
/s

Worth repeating:
"The people are so easily manipulated by the media coverage of these events also. There are multiple murders in every city around the country every night, but the media does not research their political affiliation,what websites they visited or had, or broadcast the events nationwide."
I don't understand what you are getting at? In every group, there are going to be extremists or wrongdoers (especially in such a humongous group you consider "Obama supporters"), there is really nothing you can do to prevent this. Please enlighten me.

[Kade]

Surely the hundreds, if not thousands, of Obama supporters who have murdered, raped, and robbed show they are a far more dangerous group, especially when compared to these isolated incidents.
Who could be against monitoring these dangerous Obama-supporting individuals? Who could be for more murder of the innocent?
/s

Worth repeating:
"The people are so easily manipulated by the media coverage of these events also. There are multiple murders in every city around the country every night, but the media does not research their political affiliation,what websites they visited or had, or broadcast the events nationwide."

I take it you aren't a very friendly, rational person, are you?

[Anti Federalist]

Listen to them justify the MIAC report

YouTube - The Day in 100 Seconds: Shooting at The Holocaust Museum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh0f4iQA6Aw)

Wow, that didn't take long.

I figured it'd take until Friday to trot that out.

Reads like a bad script...

[Brian4Liberty]

Why is this big news everywhere?
There are murders going on all the time.

Yep, things happen all the time. But the anti-gun people have gotten "lucky" lately (in their eyes). Some high profile shootings. As Hillary or Rahm would say "never waste a good crisis". :rolleyes:

Dogs bite people every day. They could generate a furor over dogs tomorrow if they wanted to. Same with flus/diseases, auto accidents, kids and drugs, extreme "sports" or "jackass" wannabes, killer bees, "sick" buildings, mold, dangerous cribs, devil music (Mrs. Gore, where are you?), global warming, global cooling, ozone holes, abused or starving children, sausage factories, gay parades (sausage parties?), deceased pets going into hair conditioner, e-coli in food, mad-cow (talk about something they avoid!), prescription drugs that cause people to go on shooting sprees, etc, etc.

The media can jump on any cause and turn it into a huge issue whenever it suits them.

[reagle]

Shepard Smith Foxnews Holocaust Museum Shooting & MIAC report
YouTube - DC Holocaust Museum Terrorism Coverage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hnuZMglYq0)

[LDBurnell]

The average joe and soccer mom is probably going to hear "white supremacist" and immediately think the guy was just a nut. To tell you the truth, I don't think the average person has thought too much about the fed and will not link HR 1207 with a white supremacist.

Think about the overall picture of HR1207. Who could disagree with auditing the Federal Reserve? What possible argument could they have? "the bill is tied to a white supremacist who shot up the holocaust museum" ? Seriously!

This is going to blow over. People are both more intelligent while at the same time less informed than you may think. People don't associate the Federal Reserve with evilness, YET. I believe they will once the bill gets through.

[raiha]

That mensas link is a concern though.
Logic: He's a mensa member
Mensa members are startlingly intelligent
Therefore startlingly intelligent people are white supremacist murderers or murderers to be.
Conclusion: There is no hope for humanity.

[moostraks]

Shepard Smith Foxnews Holocaust Museum Shooting & MIAC report
YouTube - DC Holocaust Museum Terrorism Coverage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hnuZMglYq0)

Ugh...I was fuming from this one. Talk about an apologist for tptb clamping down on any view which dissents with prevailing government. Seems to me they will use this to go hot and heavy with miac like reports everywhere now. Also sounds like they will be looking to censor any internet based discussions in the not too distant future. I just loved how they were able to tie it up with a neat little bow so effectively.:mad::mad::mad:

[moostraks]

That mensas link is a concern though.
Logic: He's a mensa member
Mensa members are startlingly intelligent
Therefore startlingly intelligent people are white supremacist murderers or murderers to be.
Conclusion: There is no hope for humanity.

Orwellian eh?

[Dianne]

I remember months ago a hispanic killed lots of other innocent aliens taking citizenship exams... I think the CNN (Communist News Network) spent about 45 minutes covering that story. I never heard the SPCC ( can't remember the name of that terrorist group CNN has on all the time) say yep.. .time to get rid of all the aliens in this country.... lmao. ..... what is the name of that terrorist organization spcc? The group that says if you don't kiss Obama and Pelosi's ass and don't LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEE to pay taxes you are a terrorist? Saw those dudes on CNN tonight and if anything should scare you, it is them..... The guys were about as retarded as my left shoe.

[RonPaulR3VOLUTION]

I take it you aren't a very friendly, rational person, are you?

/s = sarcasm. But thanks for recognizing the irrationality of the argument so many are making.

On a lighter note, how is this for bad timing?

Rev. Wright: "Them Jews aren't going to let [Obama] talk to me. I told my baby daughter, that he'll talk to me in five years when he's a lame duck, or in eight years when he's out of office," Wright said, according to Virginia's Daily Press. "They will not let him ... talk to somebody who calls a spade what it is."
June 10, 2009
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1615917,w-wright-obama-jews-061009.article

[Brian4Liberty]

I remember months ago a hispanic killed lots of other innocent aliens taking citizenship exams...

Unless this is a different story, I believe the shooter was Vietnamese.

There is one bottom line to all of this: Violence is wrong. Killing innocent people is the worst of crimes. It doesn't matter who the murderer is. And it doesn't matter what "tools" the murderer uses. The murderer is the one responsible, not the tools, not the pundits (if it were the pundits, you would have to implicate O'Reilly with the recent murder of the doctor, who O'Reilly called out by name many times).

[RonPaulR3VOLUTION]

Unless this is a different story, I believe the shooter was Vietnamese.

There is one bottom line to all of this: Violence is wrong. Killing innocent people is the worst of crimes. It doesn't matter who the murderer is. And it doesn't matter what "tools" the murderer uses. The murderer is the one responsible, not the tools, not the pundits (if it were the pundits, you would have to implicate O'Reilly with the recent murder of the doctor, who O'Reilly called out by name many times).

What I find amusing about this is if one believes O'Reilly is partially to blame, what if something similar happened to O'Reilly? Would those who have been blaming O'Reilly, and stirring up anger towards him, be partially to blame for his death? And should they also be held accountable were that the case?

Of course, my hypothetical scenario is in no way meant to advocate violence - nor O'Reilly. :D

[Derek Johnson]

Oh yes and Michael Medved pointed out on his show today that stormfront raised money for RP, just threw it our there and hoped guilt through association would stick!!! What a slime bucket.


...and you didn't hear some caller named 'Derek' about 10 minutes later?

...and Medved's site does not have the audio link up...for hour one only, which contains my call. Hours 2 and 3 are up, but not 1. Maybe tomorrow, hope so, it was good. There was a neo-nazi shaming this old nut, and then I bit off Medved's head and spit it out for dragging the good doctor Paul's name into this steaming pile of shit....

Medved: "And Stormfront supports Ron Paul, btw..."

[constitutional]

Looks like the shooter hated the Federal Reserve. He was convicted once back in the 80's for trying to arrest Fed Governor for treason. Here's his website and what he thought about the federal reserve: http://web.archive.org/web/20070629024015/www.holywesternempire.org/fed-caper.html

[anaconda]

Operative. Classic misdirect.

Remember the stories about "jews" painting swastikas on their own doors.

Jus sayin.


Awfully coincidental that the first line in this guy's "rant" is:

"Remember, the un-Constitutional Federal Reserve Act (1913) gave JEWS control of America's MONEY"

right as HR 1207 is near the tipping point. CIA patsy a la Timothy McVie?

[anaconda]

All that jackass did was give the gun-grabbers more ammo.

Connect the dots here.

[tonesforjonesbones]

This whole thing is a set up...I knew it immediately. We have the muslim that killed the marine, the couple of righ wing guys who killed the police, the killing of the abortion doctor and now this. HMMMMM, right after those reports came out and there was an UPROAR from the people about it. Congress has been planning to investigate who generates these "right wing extremists" reports....what's her name Janet Reno...er...Napolitano puts out the report...then has to apologize to the veterans...and we have incident after incident that backs up the report...beck (who I am pissed at for the moment) is trying to tie the right wing extremests to muslims...thereby making Patriots co conspirators with radical Islamists....now the Holocaust Museum gets shot up by and old codger...and if you believe all this...I got a condo to sell you in the Everglades......TONES

[tonesforjonesbones]

Congress was getting ready to hone in on ADL and SOuthern Poverty Law Center...they had to come up with SOMETHING right? tones

[Bman]

This whole thing is a set up...

I wouldn't go this far. But no doubt the media was preparing themselves for just such an event.

There are some right wing people who are really angry. It's only a matter of time before angry people will attack.

The act was an act of aggression. Certainly not a liberty movement member. They'll never make it stick, it is a lie.

[JoshLowry]

My friend,

I did "call" much of this... I'm honestly surprised there isn't more of it...

Terrorism is, to quote several sources: "a policy or ideology of violence intended to intimidate or cause terror for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies.""

Regardless of the label some may attribute to these people, they are of the same camps. Notably, I wouldn't be half surprised if one or two of them came from this forum.

Don't try and link violent people to the likes of those on this forum. We do not and will not support it.


+ Posting of direct or inferred threats of violence against other people or property that is not your own is completely unacceptable by any user and subject to immediate banning.

[Annihilia]

I said this in another forum, but the guy is obviously informed and intelligent if he knows about the Fed, creates websites, writes editorials (what a multi-talented 88 year old).

With this in mind, he must have taken some stupid pills that morning as the Holocaust museum is probably the single dumbest place to go "exact revenge on the Jews" if he's expecting to go out in style. It probably has more non-Jews visiting than Jews at any given point..

It would be the equivalent of someone storming a community college finance class and blowing people away because they have issues with global banking monopolies.

[ctiger2]

Violence doesn't work. Remember what Naomi Wolf said. The MOST effective form of protest is to STOP TRAFFIC. They guy would have been better off getting a LARGE group of people together and plop themselves in the middle of a busy road and refuse to move. Once arrested and released... REPEAT. Once arrested and released... REPEAT etc. Eventually they would ask them why they keep doing this and hopefully work with them to resolve any issues.

[JoshLowry]

Violence doesn't work. Remember what Naomi Wolf said. The MOST effective form of protest is to STOP TRAFFIC. They guy would have been better off getting a LARGE group of people together and plop themselves in the middle of a busy road and refuse to move. Once arrested and released... REPEAT. Once arrested and released... REPEAT etc. Eventually they would ask them why they keep doing this and hopefully work with them to resolve any issues.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Ron Paul encourages civil disobedience and fun!

However, I'd go for a bit safer approach. Someone is likely to just run you over or you may end up preventing an emergency vehicle from moving.

[JoshLowry]

I said this in another forum, but the guy is obviously informed and intelligent if he knows about the Fed, creates websites, writes editorials (what a multi-talented 88 year old).

With this in mind, he must have taken some stupid pills that morning as the Holocaust museum is probably the single dumbest place to go "exact revenge on the Jews" if he's expecting to go out in style. It probably has more non-Jews visiting than Jews at any given point..

It would be the equivalent of someone storming a community college finance class and blowing people away because they have issues with global banking monopolies.

I don't know what your avatar is, but it screams neo-nazi/white supremacy.

No offense.

[Annihilia]

I don't know what your avatar is, but it screams neo-nazi/white supremacy.

No offense.

lol, it's the hammer of Thor. It's an album cover from the band Manowar.

I'd be quite the curious white supremacist though, not being white and all :p

[AuH20]

This whole thing is a set up...I knew it immediately. We have the muslim that killed the marine, the couple of righ wing guys who killed the police, the killing of the abortion doctor and now this. HMMMMM, right after those reports came out and there was an UPROAR from the people about it. Congress has been planning to investigate who generates these "right wing extremists" reports....what's her name Janet Reno...er...Napolitano puts out the report...then has to apologize to the veterans...and we have incident after incident that backs up the report...beck (who I am pissed at for the moment) is trying to tie the right wing extremests to muslims...thereby making Patriots co conspirators with radical Islamists....now the Holocaust Museum gets shot up by and old codger...and if you believe all this...I got a condo to sell you in the Everglades......TONES

The strange aspect about this entire incident is that he walked into a fully secure Holocaust Museum, loaded with metal detectors and other detection equipment with a handgun? Secondly, lets look into von Bruun's history:


• Walked into the Washington headquarters of the Federal Reserve System on Dec. 7, 1981, armed with a revolver, a hunting knife and a sawed-off shotgun. Claimed he wanted to take board members hostage to focus media attention on their responsibility for high interest rates and the nation’s economic difficulties. He was convicted in 1983 and served six years in prison for attempted kidnapping, burglary, assault and weapons charges.

In 1981, he was bold enough to try to take Fed Reserve board members hostage. So fast forward to 2009, and apparently he's lost any sense of purpose in that he's reduced to killing an innocent black security guard who probably makes 12 dollars an hour? If this von Bruun was so intent on sending a shocking message, why do it in such a pathetic fashion? It doesn't make any sense unless he was stricken with a terminal disease.

[Aratus]

the guy had a rifle, was 88+ years of age, presumably was in the pacific in ww2 and had at least
two relationships and/or marriages and a drinking problem for starters. over the past two months
the net was feeling more tense, flamewars would flare with little provocation. these forums saw quite
a few holocaust denial postings. then we see this sad & tragic incident in the news and we are a nation
of 330,ooo,ooo people. he goes into the museum trying for a "death by cop" ending to his existence
and killed an honorable, hard working security guard in a shootout. we as a rEVOLUTIOn should be
furious at what this old man did. the very arrogance and the presumptive egotistical acting out...

[Bill M DC]

Here's what the local MSM has on it:

Gunman kills guard at museum: http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1693510

Guard remembered as hero: http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1694149

Separatist: Alleged Holocaust shooter depressed: http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1694189

Shooting suspect's history of seething anger: http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=104&sid=1693645

Museum closed in honor of murdered guard: http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=1693861&nid=25


Wasn't very nice trying to get home from work, 14th St. being a major artery crossing a bridge into town and was closed for most of the p.m.:mad:

[acptulsa]

Wasn't very nice trying to get home from work, 14th St. being a major artery crossing a bridge into town and was closed for most of the p.m.:mad:

Well, he stopped traffic. He didn't do anyone one ounce of good in the process, but he stopped traffic.

[Danke]

Well, he stopped traffic. He didn't do anyone one ounce of good in the process, but he stopped traffic.

And he wrote a book, don't forget that.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I'd be quite the curious white supremacist though, not being white and all :p

YouTube - Blazing Saddles - KKK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJkHykGRXrw)

-t

[Danke]

snip
-t

http://vodpod.com/watch/1092428-clayton-bigsby-chappelles-show-comedy-central?pod=chappelle

[Brian4Liberty]

Awfully coincidental that the first line in this guy's "rant" is...

Coincidences do occur. They do not prove cause and effect or conspiracy.

This event does not prove:

a - Any relationship with HR 1207.
b - Any validation of the MIAC report.
c - A false flag operation.
d - that guns cause violence.

The guy lost his marbles and went on a murder spree (luckily a very short one). It doesn't have to mean anything.



Main Entry: co·in·ci·dence
Pronunciation: kO-'in(t)-s&-d&n(t)s, -s&-"den(t)s
Function: noun
1 : the act or condition of coinciding : CORRESPONDENCE
2 : the occurrence of events that happen at the same time by accident but seem to have some connection; also : any of these occurrences

Coincidence is the noteworthy alignment of two or more events or circumstances without obvious causal connection. The word is derived from the Latin co- ("in", "with", "together") and incidere ("to fall on"). In science, the term is generally used in a more literal translation, e.g., referring to when two rays of light strike a surface at the same point at the same time. In this usage of coincidence, there is no implication that the alignment of events is surprising, noteworthy or non-causal.

A coincidence does not prove a relationship, but related events may be expected to have a higher index of coincidence. Probability is the basic tool, or method, to rationally evaluate coincidences. In the field of mathematics, the index of coincidence can be used to analyze whether two events are related. From a statistical perspective, coincidences are inevitable and often less remarkable than they may appear intuitively. An example is the birthday problem, where the probability of two individuals sharing a birthday already exceeds 50% with a group of only 23.

[JoshLowry]

lol, it's the hammer of Thor. It's an album cover from the band Manowar.

I'd be quite the curious white supremacist though, not being white and all :p

Oh cool. Excuse my ignorance. :o

[Matt Collins]

Coincidences do occur. They do not prove cause and effect or conspiracy.

This event does not prove:

a - Any relationship with HR 1207.
b - Any validation of the MIAC report.
c - A false flag operation.
d - that guns cause violence.

The guy lost his marbles and went on a murder spree (luckily a very short one). It doesn't have to mean anything.I agree, but the way the media was touting it yesterday was that this guy was part of the anti-Federal Reserve crowd. That's dangerous.

[JoshLowry]

I agree, but the way the media was touting it yesterday was that this guy was part of the anti-Federal Reserve crowd. That's dangerous.

No, that's reporting. He is part of the anti-Federal Reserve crowd. You can't deny it. There are a few bad apples in every bunch.

He was arrested 25 years ago when he tried to kidnap members of the Federal Reserve board.

News reports almost always include a history of a criminal that they are doing the story on.

[malkusm]

No, that's reporting. He is part of the anti-Federal Reserve crowd. You can't deny it. There are a few bad apples in every bunch.

He was arrested 25 years ago when he tried to kidnap members of the Federal Reserve board.

News reports almost always include a history of a criminal that they are doing the story on.

I posted a thread in Hot Topics, having not seen this thread. The article I posted there, which is an Associated Press article, includes this section:


The attack was the third in a recent wave of unsettling shootings that appeared to have political underpinnings.

A 23-year-old Army private, William Andrew Long, was shot and killed outside a recruiting office this month in Arkansas and a fellow soldier was wounded. The suspect, a Muslim convert, has said he considers the killing justified because of the U.S. military presence in the Middle East.

Late last month, abortion provider Dr. George Tiller was shot to death in his church.

So let's see, they are tying in white supremacy and anti-semitism with the Federal Reserve stuff, which I understand because it's in his own criminal background. But why tie this to anti-war or anti-abortion acts? Seems to me that this section of the story lumps these three incidents together as the same group of people...

[Wineman77]

Well, the link was made this morning on the John Gibson radio show. Fill in host Scott Allen Miller adamantly linked the shooter to the current End The Fed movement. I decided to call up and confront him.

I explained that his nutbags motive was very different than the modern End the Fed movement. I explained our constitutional stance and compared that to the shooters wild "Jews run the banks" ideas that fueled his anti-fed sediment. I then commented that as a Jew, sorry to disappoint the Jew haters, but I was not given a "how to rule the world" handbook when I was born. He then laughed, stumbled over his words, and told me I should be careful sharing my Jewish heritage with my fellow End the Feders! He then hung up on me.

So basically, he is spewing this notion on the airwaves that the End the Fed movement is fueled by anti Jewish hatred!!!!! So as a Jew, I guess I should avoid any End the Fed rallies in the future....:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[AuH20]

Well, the link was made this morning on the John Gibson radio show. Fill in host Scott Allen Miller adamantly linked the shooter to the current End The Fed movement. I decided to call up and confront him.

I explained that his nutbags motive was very different than the modern End the Fed movement. I explained our constitutional stance and compared that to the shooters wild "Jews run the banks" ideas that fueled his anti-fed sediment. I then commented that as a Jew, sorry to disappoint the Jew haters, but I was not given a "how to rule the world" handbook when I was born. He then laughed, stumbled over his words, and told me I should be careful sharing my Jewish heritage with my fellow End the Feders! He then hung up on me.
So basically, he is spewing this notion on the airwaves that the End the Fed movement is fueled by anti Jewish hatred!!!!! So as a Jew, I guess I should avoid any End the Fed rallies in the future....:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Why does every wackjob focus on the Joos? :D


YouTube - Bill Cooper - It's not the Jews (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fHmWcRZ72A)

[JoshLowry]

Well, the link was made this morning on the John Gibson radio show. Fill in host Scott Allen Miller adamantly linked the shooter to the current End The Fed movement. I decided to call up and confront him.

I explained that his nutbags motive was very different than the modern End the Fed movement. I explained our constitutional stance and compared that to the shooters wild "Jews run the banks" ideas that fueled his anti-fed sediment. I then commented that as a Jew, sorry to disappoint the Jew haters, but I was not given a "how to rule the world" handbook when I was born. He then laughed, stumbled over his words, and told me I should be careful sharing my Jewish heritage with my fellow End the Feders! He then hung up on me.

So basically, he is spewing this notion on the airwaves that the End the Fed movement is fueled by anti Jewish hatred!!!!! So as a Jew, I guess I should avoid any End the Fed rallies in the future....:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Wow, good on you for calling in!

:)

[Anti Federalist]

Well, the link was made this morning on the John Gibson radio show. Fill in host Scott Allen Miller adamantly linked the shooter to the current End The Fed movement. I decided to call up and confront him.

I explained that his nutbags motive was very different than the modern End the Fed movement. I explained our constitutional stance and compared that to the shooters wild "Jews run the banks" ideas that fueled his anti-fed sediment. I then commented that as a Jew, sorry to disappoint the Jew haters, but I was not given a "how to rule the world" handbook when I was born. He then laughed, stumbled over his words, and told me I should be careful sharing my Jewish heritage with my fellow End the Feders! He then hung up on me.

So basically, he is spewing this notion on the airwaves that the End the Fed movement is fueled by anti Jewish hatred!!!!! So as a Jew, I guess I should avoid any End the Fed rallies in the future....:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Yah, the talking points have gone out.

This will be hammered upon ceaselessly in the coming days and weeks in order to derail HR1207.

[acptulsa]

He then laughed, stumbled over his words, and told me I should be careful sharing my Jewish heritage with my fellow End the Feders! He then hung up on me.

How dare you refuse to fit the mold? Why, if you continue to be yourself, you just might need some freedom! Can't have that!

[Matt Collins]

No, that's reporting. He is part of the anti-Federal Reserve crowd. You can't deny it. There are a few bad apples in every bunch.

He was arrested 25 years ago when he tried to kidnap members of the Federal Reserve board.

News reports almost always include a history of a criminal that they are doing the story on.
Yes of course.

But have you seen this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_(propaganda)

[REDNECK WOMAN]

This is sad a man had to die because of some crazy extremist. He going to make all gun owners look bad. I don't like what's going on in our Country and the right way to do it is to Contact Congress on issues and hope they listen to our voice, Violence is NOT the answer. I am white, southern and I have no problem with people of color in fact I have friends that are black and Jewish. My prayers goes out to the family that lost their love one.

[JoshLowry]

*snip*

Yes I have, please don't post in huge fonts.

[Wineman77]

Wow, good on you for calling in!

:)


Had to....I was fuming!

[Anti Federalist]

The Brown Scare of '09 (http://reason.com/blog/show/134066.html)
Jesse Walker | June 11, 2009, 10:23am

Greg Sargent's reaction to the murder at the Holocaust Museum yesterday -- "it's time to revisit criticism of 'right-wing extremists' report" -- wasn't atypical. You could hear the same insta-reaction around the Web, as confirmation bias did its work and two or three crimes by far-right figures were transformed into something larger. Here's Andrew Sullivan: "That DHS report doesn't look so iffy any more, does it?" Markos Moulitsas: "Attempt by Cons to justify their critique of prescient DHS report are an extra special dose of stupid." Benjamin Sarlin at The Daily Beast writes that "a much-maligned Department of Homeland Security memo on right-wing extremism is looking more accurate by the day." Doug J. at Balloon Juice says, "How many acts of right-wing terrorism have to occur before DHS is allowed to start keeping track of it?"

So the Department of Homeland Security, a bloated and dysfunctional agency that shouldn't exist in the first place, should spend its time tracking the possibility that a criminal kook with no co-conspirators will decide to shoot a doctor or a security guard? From preventing another 9/11 to preventing unorganized shootings: Talk about mission creep. Yes, these murders are terrorism, but they're the sort of terrorism that can be contained by the average small-town police force. If you try to blow them up into a grand pattern that threatens ordinary Americans, you're no different from the C-level conservative pundits who treat every politically motivated crime by a Muslim as evidence of a broad Islamic threat to ordinary Americans' well-being. (The reliably inane Debbie Schlussel even blames Islam for the Holocaust Museum shooting, despite the fact that the killer is a neo-Nazi, on the grounds that "it is because of Muslims--who are the biggest contributor to the worldwide rise in anti-Semitism to Holocaust-eve levels--that neo-Nazis feel comfortable--far more comfortable!--manifesting their views about Jews.")

Why did the DHS report come under such fire? It wasn't because far-right cranks are incapable of committing crimes. It's because the paper blew the threat of right-wing terror out of proportion, just as the Clinton administration did in the '90s; because it treated "extremism" itself as a potential threat, while offering a definition of extremist so broad it seemed it include anyone who opposed abortion or immigration or excessive federal power; and because it fretted about the danger of "the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities." (Note that neither the killing in Kansas last month nor the shooting in Washington yesterday was committed by an Iraq or Afghanistan vet.) The effect isn't to make right-wing terror attacks less likely. It's to make it easier to smear nonviolent, noncriminal figures on the right, just as the most substantial effect of a red scare was to make it easier to smear nonviolent, noncriminal figures on the left. The fact that communist spies really existed didn't justify Joseph McCarthy's antics, and the fact that armed extremists really exist doesn't justify the Department of Homeland Security's report.

[anaconda]

I don't know what your avatar is, but it screams neo-nazi/white supremacy.

No offense.

I think that it is smart to look for inconsistencies and things that don't add up in these situations. Oswald was allegedly a communist.

[Anti Federalist]

YouTube - Olbermann Drags Dr.Pauls Name Into The von Brunn Picture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSKaXOjGLDY)

[AuH20]

Eugene Robinson is quite the statist.

[ladyjade3]

I stated in another thread that I discovered troubling Hollywood connections of this Von Brunn guy.

He was a holocaust denier, as is Hutton Gibson, who is Mel Gibson's father, who starred in Conspiracy Theory with Julia Roberts, who starred in Flatliners with...
















Kevin Bacon.

[Danke]

Save me the Google search, what is up with Kevin Bacon?

[Kludge]

Save me the Google search, what is up with Kevin Bacon?

He's a racist neo-Nazi actor.

[ladyjade3]

oh geez.

[Matt Collins]

Save me the Google search, what is up with Kevin Bacon?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon

[libertarian4321]

I stated in another thread that I discovered troubling Hollywood connections of this Von Brunn guy.

He was a holocaust denier, as is Hutton Gibson, who is Mel Gibson's father, who starred in Conspiracy Theory with Julia Roberts, who starred in Flatliners with...
















Kevin Bacon.

Damn you Kevin Bacon, I knew you'd be connected to this somehow!

[Pericles]

Coincidences do occur. They do not prove cause and effect or conspiracy.

This event does not prove:

a - Any relationship with HR 1207.
b - Any validation of the MIAC report.
c - A false flag operation.
d - that guns cause violence.

The guy lost his marbles and went on a murder spree (luckily a very short one). It doesn't have to mean anything.

Sure it does. The guy was in the military and a mere 63 years later goes nuts.:D

[Brian4Liberty]

I stated in another thread that I discovered troubling Hollywood connections of this Von Brunn guy.

He was a holocaust denier, as is Hutton Gibson, who is Mel Gibson's father, who starred in Conspiracy Theory with Julia Roberts, who starred in Flatliners with...
Kevin Bacon.

So true! You gotta love how all these idiots try to prove (or insinuate) things based on nothing other than 6 Degrees of Separation. Six is the max, usually takes way fewer.

Keith Olbermann went to school with a guy named Mohamed, who has a third cousin who is a member of Al-Queda. Therefore Keith Olbermann is related to Osama bin Laden. Probably hiding him in his closet right now. Headline: "Keith Olbermann has Al-Queda ties"!