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Objectivist
06-10-2009, 02:44 AM
If you're a religious zealot how do you explain the Gay Penguins? Isn't it the belief of religious types that their god created everything including the planet? Explain this behavior, I can't wait to see what stupidity comes from this.
YouTube - Penguin Porn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnMJU9RrNhQ)
YouTube - The Gay Penguins of the Central Park Zoo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UibmZXbiI3Y)

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
06-10-2009, 02:55 AM
Oh God.... here we go....

Kludge
06-10-2009, 03:00 AM
God also approves of eating your neighbor and raping his wife.

LittleLightShining
06-10-2009, 03:05 AM
Oh God.... here we go....+1

Bman
06-10-2009, 03:07 AM
They're not gay. That's how penguins say hello. Nothing more than a handshake I tell ya.

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:10 AM
They're not gay. That's how penguins say hello. Nothing more than a handshake I tell ya.

SO far this is the best post.:rolleyes:

Bman
06-10-2009, 03:12 AM
SO far this is the best post.:rolleyes:

I say hello like that all the time. You telling me I'm gay?:eek:

Ok. I was just trying to bring some humor to the page after you posted a video like that.

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:14 AM
I say hello like that all the time. You telling me I'm gay?:eek:

Ok. I was just trying to bring some humor to the page after you posted a video like that.

I brought to the forum in jest but it would be interesting to see how religious homophobes explain it away.:cool:

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:17 AM
If a male dog humps your leg what do you call it? I know it's called Beastiality when humans get it on with critters, but what is it from the dogs perspective? Humanality?

pacelli
06-10-2009, 03:18 AM
My, how creative we are in our choice of discussion topics this morning.

Bman
06-10-2009, 03:18 AM
I think Dick coming out in support for Gay marriage has sent the Conservatives into shock.

Heck, with such a gay population at the top of the church estabishment it won't be long before Christening will take on a whole new meaning.

Original_Intent
06-10-2009, 05:36 AM
I brought to the forum in jest but it would be interesting to see how religious homophobes explain it away.:cool:

I'd "explain it away" like this; that homosexual tendencies may indeed be natural, just as sticking your man meat in any willing or even unwilling female may also be a natural "animal" tendency.

Much of God's commands are for us to put aside the natural man and show self control. In the Playboy interview, Ayn Rand expresses similar disgust for hedonists and those unable or unwilling to control their sexual urges, Objectivist.

And I have always maintained that homosexuality (the acted upon kind, not the tendency) is I believe a sin ON PAR with fornication. That's not me "scanning God" as TW would say, that is my personal feeling about it.

I would say that all commandments also are to bring those that follow them happiness thru self mastery. Wanting to kill someone who does us wrong, wanting to take things that don't belong to us, covetting, etc etc are ALL natural tendencies that most of us learn to control as we grow up. And if you look to the animal world for what God approves of, there are plenty of examples of every religious commandment being broken. So please, feel free to make a thread that God approves of theft, God approves of murder, God approves of adultery. I guess bearing false witness the animals got skipped on, but I am guessing that's just because they don't bear witness, false or otherwise.

PaulaGem
06-10-2009, 06:02 AM
And I have always maintained that homosexuality (the acted upon kind, not the tendency) is I believe a sin ON PAR with fornication. That's not me "scanning God" as TW would say, that is my personal feeling about it.

The moral standards in the Bible are for a different culture and time. The "fornication" that Paul was so worried about was an act of worship with Pagan temple prostitutes.

Human sexuality and most other human traits naturally fall on what is called a "bell curve". There are extremes but the bulk of the population falls somewhere in the middle.

As applied to sexuality, there is a relatively small percentage on either end that is neurologically programmed to be totally straight or totally gay. The majority of the population falls somewhere in between. Social conditioning and the necessity for reproduction of the species represses homosexual tendencies in the majority of the population.

Over population has diminished social emphasis on reproduction and that is why you are seeing more "bi" experimentation in young people.

Another environmental factor that comes into play is abuse. I've talked to a fair number of women who were abused as children. They often become prostitutes who have "professional" relationships with men and intimate relationships with women, or they may simply reject men altogether and become lesbian.

I don't believe God ever disapproves of a loving relationship between two consenting adults. If for some reason those adults can only find that in a same-sex relationship, God bless them.

acptulsa
06-10-2009, 06:03 AM
They're in prison. What do guys do in prison? They establish a heirarchy and turn into jerks. Give 'em a break.

And point that camera somewhere else.

Pennsylvania
06-10-2009, 06:40 AM
I don't believe God ever disapproves of a loving relationship between two consenting adults. If for some reason those adults can only find that in a same-sex relationship, God bless them.

hear hear

sevin
06-10-2009, 06:40 AM
If a male dog humps your leg what do you call it? I know it's called Beastiality when humans get it on with critters, but what is it from the dogs perspective? Humanality?

Humanality? Ha! I gotta remember that.

Original_Intent
06-10-2009, 08:16 AM
The moral standards in the Bible are for a different culture and time. The "fornication" that Paul was so worried about was an act of worship with Pagan temple prostitutes. Your point being? I mean there are tribes in Africa that practice cannibalism, so that's OK? Is this the best argument you have?


Human sexuality and most other human traits naturally fall on what is called a "bell curve". There are extremes but the bulk of the population falls somewhere in the middle. I assume you are talking about hormonal tendencies, this doesn't address my post at all - I concede that it may be "natural" for a certain percentage of the population to have homosexual tendencies. The entire point of my post is it is my belief that God has asked us to strive for a higher standard for our own sake.


As applied to sexuality, there is a relatively small percentage on either end that is neurologically programmed to be totally straight or totally gay. The majority of the population falls somewhere in between. Social conditioning and the necessity for reproduction of the species represses homosexual tendencies in the majority of the population.

Over population has diminished social emphasis on reproduction and that is why you are seeing more "bi" experimentation in young people. Theory. Or we are seeing more bi experimentation due to educational institutions encouraging such experimentation and society, largely, either encouraging it or at the very least not discouraging it.


Another environmental factor that comes into play is abuse. I've talked to a fair number of women who were abused as children. They often become prostitutes who have "professional" relationships with men and intimate relationships with women, or they may simply reject men altogether and become lesbian.

I don't believe God ever disapproves of a loving relationship between two consenting adults. If for some reason those adults can only find that in a same-sex relationship, God bless them. It's clear we have incompatible beliefs about God. /shrug. The OP asked for a religious viewpoint that was consistent and explained how animals can be gay, but still say God does not condone, let alone "bless" (as you put it) homosexuality. I responded as best I could, and as far as I can tell you didn't really address a single thing I said other than to present an alternate view - which you are certainly free to do. But even though you quoted me I don't see that you addressed anything that I said.

TER
06-10-2009, 08:23 AM
If you're a religious zealot how do you explain the Gay Penguins? Isn't it the belief of religious types that their god created everything including the planet? Explain this behavior, I can't wait to see what stupidity comes from this.
YouTube - Penguin Porn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnMJU9RrNhQ)
YouTube - The Gay Penguins of the Central Park Zoo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UibmZXbiI3Y)

It is because you don't understand the cosmic consequences of the Fall that leads you to these false presumptions.

TER
06-10-2009, 08:28 AM
The moral standards in the Bible are for a different culture and time. The "fornication" that Paul was so worried about was an act of worship with Pagan temple prostitutes.

Human sexuality and most other human traits naturally fall on what is called a "bell curve". There are extremes but the bulk of the population falls somewhere in the middle.

As applied to sexuality, there is a relatively small percentage on either end that is neurologically programmed to be totally straight or totally gay. The majority of the population falls somewhere in between. Social conditioning and the necessity for reproduction of the species represses homosexual tendencies in the majority of the population.

Over population has diminished social emphasis on reproduction and that is why you are seeing more "bi" experimentation in young people.

Another environmental factor that comes into play is abuse. I've talked to a fair number of women who were abused as children. They often become prostitutes who have "professional" relationships with men and intimate relationships with women, or they may simply reject men altogether and become lesbian.

I don't believe God ever disapproves of a loving relationship between two consenting adults. If for some reason those adults can only find that in a same-sex relationship, God bless them.

If you wish to believe these teachings than go on and may the Lord have mercy on you, but these are NOT Christian teachings.

Danke
06-10-2009, 08:54 AM
They're in prison. What do guys do in prison? They establish a heirarchy and turn into jerks. Give 'em a break.

And point that camera somewhere else.

Maybe they are doing it for the cameras?

PaulaGem
06-10-2009, 08:59 AM
If you wish to believe these teachings than go on and may the Lord have mercy on you, but these are NOT Christian teachings.

The Fornication bit was something I learned at a Bible study over 20 years ago. The pastor gave all of the greek words, explained the history, the whole thing. I used to have a copy of his notes because the study he had put into this lesson impressed me and I asked for them. Unfortunately, they've gotten misplaced over the years. Yes, they are the teachings of an enlightened Christian Minister.

The bell curve thing is from the science of psychology, a quick summary of some of my college studies. Perhaps you should study some of these things for yourself before you go bashing the well considered opinions of others.

God help you if you are afraid to think for yourself.

Theocrat
06-10-2009, 09:06 AM
Gay penguins are supposed to prove that it is okay for humans to be gay? If that is how you reason, let me help you out. Lions kill other animals, like buffalo, to eat them:

YouTube - Lions Hunt Buffalo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkZ8kOMWTdI)

That proves that it is okay for humans of one race to kill and eat humans of another race.

Also, many times when a doe has a fawn that cannot walk immediately after its born, the doe will leave it behind in the wild. I guess that makes it okay for humans to leave their handicapped children in the street if they want to.

Monkeys sometimes fling their excrement at people in the zoo. I guess that makes it okay for humans to throw their poo at others during a baseball game.

Let's just get all of our acceptable behaviors from the animals because, you know, that is a step forward in our evolutionary lifespan. :rolleyes:

MRoCkEd
06-10-2009, 09:09 AM
This doesn't show that God approves of homosexual behavior. It might show that some people are born with homosexual inclinations, although it is obviously a choice whether they choose to act on these feelings. This is consistent with what I was taught in Catholic school. You don't choose to be gay, but you choose to act gay.

TER
06-10-2009, 09:09 AM
The Fornication bit was something I learned at a Bible study over 20 years ago. The pastor gave all of the greek words, explained the history, the whole thing. I used to have a copy of his notes because the study he had put into this lesson impressed me and I asked for them. Unfortunately, they've gotten misplaced over the years. Yes, they are the teachings of an enlightened Christian Minister.

The bell curve thing is from the science of psychology, a quick summary of some of my college studies. Perhaps you should study some of these things for yourself before you go bashing the well considered opinions of others.

God help you if you are afraid to think for yourself.
Reply With Quote



I appreciate your reference being an 'enlightened Christian minister' and that the Greek meaning was explained to you in a bible study 20 years ago. However, there is 2000 years of Christian teaching which contradicts your assertions about the Christian view of homosexuality. Your opinion is trumped by the Church.

TER
06-10-2009, 09:12 AM
This doesn't show that God approves of homosexual behavior. It might show that some people are born with homosexual inclinations, although it is obviously a choice whether they choose to act on these feelings.

+1

Sin has permeated all of creation. It is how we confront our passions that matters.

PaulaGem
06-10-2009, 09:15 AM
I assume you are talking about hormonal tendencies, this doesn't address my post at all - I concede that it may be "natural" for a certain percentage of the population to have homosexual tendencies. The entire point of my post is it is my belief that God has asked us to strive for a higher standard for our own sake..

I believe we should accept ourselves as God made us and the "higher standard" we strive for is a Spiritual one, to Love others and Love ourselves. The physical issues are just a distraction.

TER
06-10-2009, 09:22 AM
I believe we should accept ourselves as God made us and the "higher standard" we strive for is a Spiritual one, to Love others and Love ourselves. The physical issues are just a distraction.

This is similar to the Gnostic heresy, one of the first heresies that the Church had to endure in the early years of the 1st and 2nd centuries. It led to sexual immorality and promiscuity and was condemned.

Please study the early Church and the various heresies which it confronted so you can better understand.

MRoCkEd
06-10-2009, 09:26 AM
I believe we should accept ourselves as God made us and the "higher standard" we strive for is a Spiritual one, to Love others and Love ourselves. The physical issues are just a distraction.
Some people are attracted to children. It's still unacceptable (from a Christian or secular standpoint) to have sexual relations with them. I know this isn't the same as acts between consenting adults, which certainly should be legal. But just because something feels natural doesn't mean it is appropriate or moral.

coyote_sprit
06-10-2009, 09:53 AM
This is just an elaborate plan by the penguins to trick the zoo into giving them some bitches.

Danke
06-10-2009, 09:58 AM
This is just an elaborate plan by the penguins to trick the zoo into giving them some bitches.

http://susty.com/image/fiordland-crested-penguins-hold-hands-fins-flippers-walk-on-rocks-look-right-beaks-feathers-cute-adorable-animals-wildlife-biota-environment-nature-photo.jpg

MRoCkEd
06-10-2009, 10:00 AM
This is just an elaborate plan by the penguins to trick the zoo into giving them some bitches.
http://shadowwar.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/winner.jpg

unconsious767
06-10-2009, 10:08 AM
Those penguins are going to hell! :p

coyote_sprit
06-10-2009, 10:09 AM
Those penguins are going to hell! :p

No they ain't it was all a trick to get them some hoes. True some may have had to take some for the team but it was for an entirely ungay cause.

Reason
06-10-2009, 11:53 AM
YouTube - Middle Sexes - Experiment on homophobia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy-7AoxFEJA)

acptulsa
06-10-2009, 12:15 PM
Blame it on Hollywood. Obviously they saw Happy Feet.

TER
06-10-2009, 12:24 PM
YouTube - Middle Sexes - Experiment on homophobia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy-7AoxFEJA)

Homophobia is a sin as well. It is a weakness. Christianity does not teach us to fear the sinner. Instead, we should help them and pray for them.

dannno
06-10-2009, 12:35 PM
Have any of the males here ever taken an objective look at two attractive females making out with each other?

Please show me something more beautiful than that.

TER
06-10-2009, 12:42 PM
Have any of the males here ever taken an objective look at two attractive females making out with each other?

Please show me something more beautiful than that.

A husband and wife in loving embrace, as God intended.

anaconda
06-10-2009, 01:01 PM
The God of Abraham and Moses never had a girlfriend goddess. A little suspicious, if you ask me...And an iffy role model...

Theocrat
06-10-2009, 01:06 PM
A husband and wife in loving embrace, as God intended.

You're a bigot, and you don't believe in freedom of expression and individual rights. People have the right to stick their penises in the anuses of other people, even if they get AIDS. That is freedom. The penguins do it all the time, and we should learn from their example. Hell, we should even move down to Antarctica and try to experiment with them. Anyone who says otherwise is not for liberty. :rolleyes:

Andrew-Austin
06-10-2009, 01:07 PM
Some religious zealots complain about homosexuality being "unnatural", because it has nothing to do with reproduction. Well shit can we for once take this line of thought and extend it to its logical conclusion? What other things do homosexuals and heterosexuals both engage in that has nothing to do with reproduction? Go ahead and fill in the blanks to whatever is missing on my short list: heterosexual anal sex, oral sex, spanking, clawing/biting, foreplay, all manner of fetishes, even kissing, etc. Okay so we all know animals in the wild can be gay, and that God created animals, but perhaps he just doesn't give a shit about animals or will send them to animal hell or something. But what about the long list of sexual acts and flirtations that humans engage in that has nothing to do with reproduction? Basically if you wanted to be natural in the strictest sense, your physical relationship would be constrained to a quick fuck while you think of baseball or England, and the bulk of humanity would be condemned to hell for acting on the sinful passions they were born with. Sorry Christians, there is nothing wrong with sexual acts between two consenting adults, just admit your grudge against gays is completely arbitrary.


A husband and wife in loving embrace, as God intended.

Its about as equally beautiful, not more so.

TER
06-10-2009, 01:10 PM
The God of Abraham and Moses never had a girlfriend goddess. A little suspicious, if you ask me...And an iffy role model...

Thread loser

TER
06-10-2009, 01:22 PM
Some religious zealots complain about homosexuality being "unnatural", because it has nothing to do with reproduction. Well shit can we for once take this line of thought and extend it to its logical conclusion? What other things do homosexuals and heterosexuals both engage in that has nothing to do with reproduction? Go ahead and fill in the blanks to whatever is missing on my short list: heterosexual anal sex, oral sex, spanking, clawing/biting, foreplay, all manner of fetishes, even kissing, etc. Okay so we all know animals in the wild can be gay, and that God created animals, but perhaps he just doesn't give a shit about animals or will send them to animal hell or something. But what about the long list of sexual acts and flirtations that humans engage in that has nothing to do with reproduction? Basically if you wanted to be natural in the strictest sense, your physical relationship would be constrained to a quick fuck while you think of baseball or England, and the bulk of humanity would be condemned to hell for acting on the sinful passions they were born with. Sorry Christians, there is nothing wrong with sexual acts between two consenting adults, just admit your grudge against gays is completely arbitrary.



Its about as equally beautiful, not more so.

I do not have a grudge against gays, I feel sad for them. It is sympathy, not hatred, which I feel.
Also, if your own eyes can't convince you that man and women were designed to be one in flesh as oppossed to two men, then no amount of my writing will convince you either.

TonySutton
06-10-2009, 01:26 PM
<Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
The God of Abraham and Moses never had a girlfriend goddess. A little suspicious, if you ask me...And an iffy role model...>

Thread loser

I am not sure, nowadays when someone doesn't display a girl (trophy) of some sort people tend to question their hetero credentials....

makes a person wonder a bit.

anaconda
06-10-2009, 01:27 PM
You're a bigot, and you don't believe in freedom of expression and individual rights. People have the right to stick their penises in the anuses of other people, even if they get AIDS. That is freedom. The penguins do it all the time, and we should learn from their example. Hell, we should even move down to Antarctica and try to experiment with them. Anyone who says otherwise is not for liberty. :rolleyes:

I think you summed it up perfectly.

This Revolution is not for the weak of heart or the shrinking violet.

It's a slippery slope till we have SS thugs patrolling the streets enforcing the boy-girl laws.

TER
06-10-2009, 01:31 PM
I am not sure, nowadays when someone doesn't display a girl (trophy) of some sort people tend to question their hetero credentials....

makes a person wonder a bit.

It may make a gay person wonder.

Andrew-Austin
06-10-2009, 01:47 PM
I do not have a grudge against gays, I feel sad for them. It is sympathy, not hatred, which I feel.

Why? Because you think they will burn in hell? Otherwise it does not seem to be impairing the quality of their lives any, besides the occasional bigotry and discrimination they encounter. I'd feel sorry for them if society tried to beat/repress their homosexuality.



Also, if your own eyes can't convince you that man and women were designed to be one in flesh as opposed to two men, then no amount of my writing will convince you either.

lol I think men and women were meant for each other, I just don't see why homosexual behavior is immoral, why it should be illegal, and why people should burn in hell for all of eternity for it.

Sandman33
06-10-2009, 01:53 PM
God does NOT approve of homosexuality. He smites them like Soddom and Gammorah.

Those penguins will BURN IN HELL I TELL YOU!! LOL

TER
06-10-2009, 02:07 PM
Why? Because you think they will burn in hell? Otherwise it does not seem to be impairing the quality of their lives any, besides the occasional bigotry and discrimination they encounter. I'd feel sorry for them if society tried to beat/repress their homosexuality.



lol I think men and women were meant for each other, I just don't see why homosexual behavior is immoral, why it should be illegal, and why people should burn in hell for all of eternity for it.

I think you have a poor understanding of what sin is. To sin is to distance oneself from their Creator, Who is the source of all that is Good and Beautiful. Estrangment from the Lord Who is the source of Life. That is why the wages of sin is death. Death entered creation due to sin and corrupted that which was good. True Life can only be found in Christ, Who destroyed death by His sinless life and death on the cross.

Living in sin leads to death, whether that sin is one of pride, greed, lust, etc.
I do not feel sad for sinners (of which I am amongst the greatest) only because their choices lead to death, but because their choices cast away Life.

Bman
06-10-2009, 02:10 PM
Homophobia is a sin as well. It is a weakness. Christianity does not teach us to fear the sinner. Instead, we should help them and pray for them.

Hmmm. Helping someone decide who they like, love, and share intimate moments with. How rich.

TER
06-10-2009, 02:13 PM
Hmmm. Helping someone decide who they like, love, and share intimate moments with. How rich.

No, helping them choose life over death and true happiness over base passions and lustful desires.

TonySutton
06-10-2009, 02:18 PM
No, helping them choose life over death and true happiness over base passions and lustful desires.

Try walking a mile in those shoes and then come talk to me about it.

TER
06-10-2009, 02:24 PM
Try walking a mile in those shoes and then come talk to me about it.

I fight my own demons and still know I am lying to myself whenever I try to justify them.

Original_Intent
06-10-2009, 02:32 PM
I fight my own demons and still know I am lying to myself whenever I try to justify them.

Same here, that is why I don't hate homosexuals or condemn them for their failings. I got my own problems to work on. But I absolutely refuse to accept it as "just another lifestyle" nor will I accept swingers lifestyle as just another choice that is just fine as long as everyone consents. I just won't try to enforce my beliefs in either case thru the legal system.

Bman
06-10-2009, 02:45 PM
No, helping them choose life over death and true happiness over base passions and lustful desires.

You'll have to explain how any of what you said pertains to a homosexual lifestyle. It just isn't making sense to me.

Sandman33
06-10-2009, 02:55 PM
Some religious zealots complain about homosexuality being "unnatural", because it has nothing to do with reproduction. Well shit can we for once take this line of thought and extend it to its logical conclusion? What other things do homosexuals and heterosexuals both engage in that has nothing to do with reproduction? Go ahead and fill in the blanks to whatever is missing on my short list: heterosexual anal sex, oral sex, spanking, clawing/biting, foreplay, all manner of fetishes, even kissing, etc. Okay so we all know animals in the wild can be gay, and that God created animals, but perhaps he just doesn't give a shit about animals or will send them to animal hell or something. But what about the long list of sexual acts and flirtations that humans engage in that has nothing to do with reproduction? Basically if you wanted to be natural in the strictest sense, your physical relationship would be constrained to a quick fuck while you think of baseball or England, and the bulk of humanity would be condemned to hell for acting on the sinful passions they were born with. Sorry Christians, there is nothing wrong with sexual acts between two consenting adults, just admit your grudge against gays is completely arbitrary.



Its about as equally beautiful, not more so.

The animal kingdom and mankind are two different things. I'll not be judged by the standards of animals.

Several animals eat their own shit and others shit....are you going to point to that and say that we should learn from animals?

MOST gay sex in the animal kingdom is not for pleasure or "love" its to show dominance anyway, like in PRISON.

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 02:58 PM
It is because you don't understand the cosmic consequences of the Fall that leads you to these false presumptions.

Cosmic?

What I do understand is there are people who base their thinking of mystical beings that don't exist and speak out of both sides of their mouth. I do understand that.

Theocrat
06-10-2009, 02:59 PM
The animal kingdom and mankind are two different things. I'll not be judged by the standards of animals.

Several animals eat their own shit and others shit....are you going to point to that and say that we should learn from animals?

MOST gay sex in the animal kingdom is not for pleasure or "love" its to show dominance anyway, like in PRISON.

That's pretty much what I said in Post #22 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2160359#post2160359). Animals behavior is not the standard for human behavior. Therefore, it does not follow that because penguins are gay, humans can be gay, too.

Pennsylvania
06-10-2009, 03:00 PM
To clarify, the argument was never that humans should base their actions upon those of animals. The argument is that it would not make sense for a God to create homosexual animals when he clearly disproves of homosexuality. Likewise, it makes no sense for him to have created chimpanzees which attack and murder one another if he disagrees with murder. The original argument has been twisted into an entirely separate issue altogether. Hopefully everyone can see the difference here.

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:01 PM
This doesn't show that God approves of homosexual behavior. It might show that some people are born with homosexual inclinations, although it is obviously a choice whether they choose to act on these feelings. This is consistent with what I was taught in Catholic school. You don't choose to be gay, but you choose to act gay.

Using the catholic church as a point of reference makes this the funniest post so far.

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:02 PM
This is just an elaborate plan by the penguins to trick the zoo into giving them some bitches.

Maybe they want to get married..... they're wearing tuxedos already.

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:04 PM
Have any of the males here ever taken an objective look at two attractive females making out with each other?

Please show me something more beautiful than that.

YOu haven't delivered a child.

Theocrat
06-10-2009, 03:05 PM
To clarify, the argument was never that humans should base their actions upon those of animals. The argument is that it would not make sense for a God to create homosexual animals when he clearly disproves of homosexuality. Likewise, it makes no sense for him to have created chimpanzees which attack and murder one another if he disagrees with murder. The original argument has been twisted into an entirely separate issue altogether. Hopefully everyone can see the difference here.

The question assumes that animals are the same as humans, which is a false assumption. On the Christian worldview, God created man above the animals, so just because there are animals in nature which exhibit homosexual behavior does not mean that God intended humans to have homosexual behavior, especially when God has already made it clear that homosexuality is an abomination for humans. It's like comparing apples and oranges. We are called to take dominion over the animals, not to imitate them nor base our sexual behaviors on what the animals do.

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:07 PM
The question assumes that animals are the same as humans, which is a false assumption. On the Christian worldview, God created man above the animals, so just because there are animals in nature which exhibit homosexual behavior does not mean that God intended humans to have homosexual behavior, especially when God has already made it clear that homosexuality is an abomination for humans. It's like comparing apples and oranges. We are called to take dominion over the animals, not to imitate them nor base our sexual behaviors on what the animals do.

So god intended to make gay animals then? It does work in mysterious ways does it not?

TER
06-10-2009, 03:09 PM
Cosmic?
Do you not understand what the word means?

TER
06-10-2009, 03:11 PM
So god intended to make gay animals then? It does work in mysterious ways does it not?

You have a hard time grasping the notion of the Fall. And here you are, the objectivist.

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:14 PM
Do you not understand what the word means?

I bet it means something different to me, then so does the word god.

Theocrat
06-10-2009, 03:16 PM
So god intended to make gay animals then? It does work in mysterious ways does it not?

No, God did not create gay animals because He told them in Genesis 1 to be fruitful and multiply upon the earth. Gay animals would be unable to do that. However, even if you could call what those penguins were doing in the videos a "homosexual relationship," it still does not mean that God intended such a relationship for humans, which is what you're seeming to draw a conclusion towards.

TER
06-10-2009, 03:18 PM
I bet it means something different to me, then so does the word god.

oh. How so? The word cosmic doesn't have many meanings I am aware of.

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:19 PM
No, God did not create gay animals because He told them in Genesis 1 to be fruitful and multiply upon the earth. Gay animals would be unable to do that. However, even if you could call what those penguins were doing in the videos a "homosexual relationship," it still does not mean that God intended such a relationship for humans, which is what you're seeming to draw a conclusion towards.

I'm not the one who calls god the creator, so you follow a flawed ideology based on the idea that god is a supreme being. Clearly not the case if you and god believe homosexual behavior is a abomination, he is your creator right?

Or is this a genetic abnormality?

TER
06-10-2009, 03:21 PM
I'm not the one who calls god the creator, so you follow a flawed ideology based on the idea that god is a supreme being. Clearly not the case if you and god believe homosexual behavior is a abomination, he is your creator right?

Tell me, Objectivist, who is your God? Have you made your 3 pound brain your god?

Theocrat
06-10-2009, 03:25 PM
I'm not the one who calls god the creator, so you follow a flawed ideology based on the idea that god is a supreme being. Clearly not the case if you and god believe homosexual behavior is a abomination, he is your creator right?

Or is this a genetic abnormality?

What part of "...especially when God has already made it clear that homosexuality is an abomination for humans" did you fail to comprehend? Do I need to quote Scripture to prove my point further? If you're going to have intelligent discussion with the opposing side about this, then you need to stop and listen to what their arguments are before replying on a straw man.

I don't think what those penguins were doing qualifies as homosexual behavior, and no, sodomy is not a genetic abnormality. It is a choice.

Sandman33
06-10-2009, 03:47 PM
To clarify, the argument was never that humans should base their actions upon those of animals. The argument is that it would not make sense for a God to create homosexual animals when he clearly disproves of homosexuality. Likewise, it makes no sense for him to have created chimpanzees which attack and murder one another if he disagrees with murder. The original argument has been twisted into an entirely separate issue altogether. Hopefully everyone can see the difference here.

Who said God had to make any sense to YOU?

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:47 PM
Tell me, Objectivist, who is your God? Have you made your 3 pound brain your god?

AS for you question on cosmic, in your mind is the phrase "heavens above" appropriate?
If so we have a different definition of the word cosmic. You do believe in a god, right?

My god? I don't have a need to believe in things not based in reality or fact, I base my thinking in reason, not mystical beings or faith.

ANd now I'm going to run five miles so I can live a few extra days, you should jump off a bridge if you really think there is a heaven, wouldn't it be nicer being with your god?

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 03:48 PM
What part of "...especially when God has already made it clear that homosexuality is an abomination for humans" did you fail to comprehend? Do I need to quote Scripture to prove my point further? If you're going to have intelligent discussion with the opposing side about this, then you need to stop and listen to what their arguments are before replying on a straw man.

I don't think what those penguins were doing qualifies as homosexual behavior, and no, sodomy is not a genetic abnormality. It is a choice.

Scripture is fiction, you have no point.

Bman
06-10-2009, 03:52 PM
Have you made your 3 pound brain your god?

I have.

Theocrat
06-10-2009, 03:53 PM
Scripture is fiction, you have no point.

The fiction lies with people who believe we evolved from animals, so therefore, whatever the animals do should dictate human behavior. That is really what this thread is about. You throw God in here just to insult Him.

PaulaGem
06-10-2009, 03:53 PM
This is similar to the Gnostic heresy, one of the first heresies that the Church had to endure in the early years of the 1st and 2nd centuries. It led to sexual immorality and promiscuity and was condemned.

Please study the early Church and the various heresies which it confronted so you can better understand.

The early Church was Jewish. From the communal life style they adopted and the nature of the teachings of Yeshua, their Mosiach was probably a gnostic.

The "church" you refer to is the Roman church which declared other Christians "heretics" for not adopting their paganized mythology and the doctrine of the "trinity" which deified "Jesus".

That church murdered more Christians than the pagan Romans ever did.

Of course gnosticism is threatening to any political system, especially a religious one. It teaches people that they don't need religion or government to live in harmony with the Diety.

Perhaps you should study the real history of the Roman Chruch, especially the period they call "proto-orthodox".

Bman
06-10-2009, 03:54 PM
The You throw God in here just to insult Him.

Him?

Pennsylvania
06-10-2009, 04:01 PM
Who said God had to make any sense to YOU?

I was clarifying the original argument, not making a separate one. But to answer your question, I alone decided that if God did not make sense to me, then it did not make sense to believe in him. I believe Thomas Jefferson put it best:


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.

fedup100
06-10-2009, 04:13 PM
Scripture is fiction, you have no point.

According to.....................

Bman
06-10-2009, 04:17 PM
According to.....................

God. Yup that's me.

fedup100
06-10-2009, 04:22 PM
So god intended to make gay animals then? It does work in mysterious ways does it not?

So, let me see. We can then go hollow out a large cucumber and then insert a smaller cucumber and because God made both of them and they just had gay butt sex then it was meant of God and all is well in sodomy land?

Work it people, work it till you get it to the sick perverted Godless world your yearning for! :rolleyes:

Sandman33
06-10-2009, 04:23 PM
I was clarifying the original argument, not making a separate one. But to answer your question, I alone decided that if God did not make sense to me, then it did not make sense to believe in him. I believe Thomas Jefferson put it best:

Ah but there are so many things that we don't understand and don't make sense to us. That doesn't mean we shouldn't believe in them.

Example. We cant fathom infinity. It's mind boggling to think that space will go on forever. Just because we don't grasp it does not mean that the creator doesnt.

Sandman33
06-10-2009, 04:26 PM
AS for you question on cosmic, in your mind is the phrase "heavens above" appropriate?
If so we have a different definition of the word cosmic. You do believe in a god, right?

My god? I don't have a need to believe in things not based in reality or fact, I base my thinking in reason, not mystical beings or faith.

ANd now I'm going to run five miles so I can live a few extra days, you should jump off a bridge if you really think there is a heaven, wouldn't it be nicer being with your god?

Your Randian avatar is perfect for your personality then.

Everything is black and white, completely androgenous as well. Soulless stares telling others to jump off bridges and kill themselves.

Suicide is a major sin in all religions. You cannot reach the creator by throwing the gift of your life away. You go when you go, make the best of it while you're here.

dannno
06-10-2009, 04:32 PM
A husband and wife in loving embrace, as God intended.

That would imply that the man is more attractive than the second woman, and as a heterosexual, I can't buy that.

dannno
06-10-2009, 04:35 PM
YOu haven't delivered a child.

No, I haven't done that, I'll have to take your word ;)

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 04:36 PM
Great, is this board also turning into a platform for gay acceptance/promotion? I mean comon, tolerance is one thing...

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 04:40 PM
Suicide is a major sin in all religions. You cannot reach the creator by throwing the gift of your life away. You go when you go, make the best of it while you're here.

You are welcome to your opinion. I disagree. Some eastern religions take no positions on suicide. Certain muslim sects encourage suicide as a means to kill enemies of the religion...

I am Catholic. Even I find the idea that God would turn his back on someone who had no hope to live, was suffering needlessly, and chose to end it, to be inconsistent with the notions of grace and forgiveness.

Kade
06-10-2009, 04:42 PM
Your Randian avatar is perfect for your personality then.

Everything is black and white, completely androgenous as well. Soulless stares telling others to jump off bridges and kill themselves.

Suicide is a major sin in all religions. You cannot reach the creator by throwing the gift of your life away. You go when you go, make the best of it while you're here.

Suicide is only rejected in modern variants of Islam and Christianity. Even today, it is accepted in other major religions, and in some cases, celebrated.

Not too long ago in ritualized Bushido, harakiri was a practice of great importance and honor, shedding the participant of a dishonorable death at the hands of an enemy, or an act of repentance in the case of a committed dishonor or crime.

I believe there is no condemnation of the act, in form of repentance, as performed by Judas, Matthew 27.

In fact, there are at least seven instances of suicides in the Bible. None of which are described as sinful.

You make such sweeping statements, that I don't even need to mention the ridiculous assumption you make on the "will" of a "creator".

dannno
06-10-2009, 04:54 PM
Great, is this board also turning into a platform for gay acceptance/promotion? I mean comon, tolerance is one thing...

I'm not forcing anybody to accept anything, I just think that two girls in really close quarters is extremely attractive and very beautiful to behold :)

Bodhi
06-10-2009, 05:02 PM
I just amazes me that there are people at the RP forums that are against homosexuals. I must be missing something here. I thought we were about Liberty. If someone thinks Liberty stops once it offends their religious principals, then that person really does not understand Liberty all that well.

If two people from the same sex love each other, that should be their right to do so.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:03 PM
Suicide is only rejected in modern variants of Islam and Christianity. Even today, it is accepted in other major religions, and in some cases, celebrated.

Not too long ago in ritualized Bushido, harakiri was a practice of great importance and honor, shedding the participant of a dishonorable death at the hands of an enemy, or an act of repentance in the case of a committed dishonor or crime.

I believe there is no condemnation of the act, in form of repentance, as performed by Judas, Matthew 27.

In fact, there are at least seven instances of suicides in the Bible. None of which are described as sinful.

You make such sweeping statements, that I don't even need to mention the ridiculous assumption you make on the "will" of a "creator".

Technically, Bushido isn't a religion as much as a philosophy/way of life.

Bman
06-10-2009, 05:05 PM
Technically, Bushido isn't a religion as much as a philosophy/way of life.

All religions are nothing more than a philosophy.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:05 PM
I just amazes me that there are people at the RP forums that are against homosexuals. I must be missing something here. I thought we were about Liberty. If someone thinks Liberty stops once it offends their religious principals, then that person really does not understand Liberty all that well.

If two people from the same sex love each other, that should be their right to do so.

Why does one have to be 'against homosexuals' or 'for' homosexuals? Why can't we just say that they have as much liberty as anyone else, but no more, while disapproving of their behavior on both moral and natural grounds?

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:06 PM
All religions are nothing more than a philosophy.

Only non theist would say that.

Bman
06-10-2009, 05:07 PM
Only one who does not participate in make believe would say that.

Fixed.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:08 PM
I'm not forcing anybody to accept anything, I just think that two girls in really close quarters is extremely attractive and very beautiful to behold :)

I cannot dispute the hotness of two women rubbing against each other.

But you have to admit that the prohomo campaign has been vast and pervasive.

zach
06-10-2009, 05:09 PM
How can we even begin knowing what "God" wants whenever the Being is completely outside of our reality perception (IMHO)? While knowing, understanding, and comprehending a Holy Scripture may be key to understanding some spiritual aspects of life, I do not believe that they alone lead the way to knowing the spiritual realm. If one wants to understand something fully and want to have a viewpoint based on religious convictions, then I would think that in order to be more well-rounded in explaining the argument, one would read on the other religions on how they view the subject as well as your own. Tying this into homosexuality, I shudder to think that attractions are viewed just as sinful as acting upon them. However, I do understand how a behavior would be classified as a sin, but when it comes to homosexual actions, I don't believe there is a sin involved when no harm is being done to the two adults. And hopefully, we aren't limiting lust to just people of the LGBT community because I'm sure everyone, no matter what background or belief system, has had lust within their own lives. To limit it to just that population is simply hypocritical, IMO. Yes, one may believe in God and believe that God is against any sexual action that is not focused on procreation, but imposing that view to someone who doesn't follow your religious way of living, who has no life like yours, and who might not understand why you believe in such a way, will make as much as sense as telling a baby that crying is a natural behavior that can be used to express a want of something.

What is the goal of living? In my opinion, it is to be happy with oneself in all aspects of their life, and to be peaceful with the reality around them.
If someone (or some couple) wants to be happy and isn't bothering you in the least, then why not leave them alone, and be happy that maybe Love (whether you believe it happens or not) may be present in the world in at least two people.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:09 PM
Fixed.

Welcome to my ignore list. Ive decided to add militant atheists as well.

Bman
06-10-2009, 05:10 PM
Welcome to my ignore list. Ive decided to add militant atheists as well.

Militant? Please. Welcome to my loser list.

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:10 PM
Technically, Bushido isn't a religion as much as a philosophy/way of life.

And as I wrote it, I believe I referred to it more as a ritual.

Then again, most religion is nothing more than rituals extended on irrelevant nonsense that, if ever there were less than the majority of people in the world believing in it, would be laughed at mercilessly.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:12 PM
And as I wrote it, I believe I referred to it more as a ritual.

Then again, most religion is nothing more than rituals extended on irrelevant nonsense that, if ever there were less than the majority of people in the world believing in it, would be laughed at mercilessly.

See above. Welcome to the list. Only the doucheiest are admitted. Wear it as a badge of honor.

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:12 PM
Welcome to my ignore list. Ive decided to add militant atheists as well.

An excellent way to open up the lines of communication, embrace pluralism, and contribute to the general debate.

Bman
06-10-2009, 05:13 PM
See above. Welcome to the list. Only the doucheiest are admitted. Wear it as a badge of honor.

YouTube - Holy Grail - Killer Bunny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg)

RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!

Bodhi
06-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Why does one have to be 'against homosexuals' or 'for' homosexuals? Why can't we just say that they have as much liberty as anyone else, but no more, while disapproving of their behavior on both moral and natural grounds?

You are more than welcome to approve or disapprove of someones behavior on whatever grounds You choose. But that has nothing to do with another persons right to Liberty and live life how they see fit to do so.

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:14 PM
See above. Welcome to the list. Only the doucheiest are admitted. Wear it as a badge of honor.

Hmm, seems the vagueness of my non-specific denouncement was upsetting to you. Imagine if I had attacked the brand!

Bman
06-10-2009, 05:16 PM
Hmm, seems the vagueness of my non-specific denouncement was upsetting to you. Imagine if I had attacked the brand!

Watch out that may have made him suicidal!;)

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:20 PM
You are more than welcome to approve or disapprove of someones behavior on whatever grounds You choose. But that has nothing to do with another persons right to Liberty and live life how they see fit to do so.

It DOES have to do with my right to not deal with them if I so choose though. It also means that I have the right not to recognize their 'marriages'.

Liberty is freedom from negative GOVERNMENT consequences. The problem with homopolitics is that it isnt about equal rights relative to government, but is instead focused on enforcing social acceptance through government force.

That isnt liberty.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:21 PM
Kade
This message is hidden because Kade is on your ignore list.
Bman
This message is hidden because Bman is on your ignore list.

Sorry. Cant hear you. You are going to have to speak up or something.

zach
06-10-2009, 05:22 PM
Anyway.

zach
06-10-2009, 05:24 PM
http://www.londonist.com/attachments/sizemore/derailed.jpg

Nirvikalpa
06-10-2009, 05:25 PM
Welcome back, Kade.

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:25 PM
It DOES have to do with my right to not deal with them if I so choose though. It also means that I have the right not to recognize their 'marriages'.

Liberty is freedom from negative GOVERNMENT consequences. The problem with homopolitics is that it isnt about equal rights relative to government, but is instead focused on enforcing social acceptance through government force.

That isnt liberty.

What is homopolitics?

zach
06-10-2009, 05:26 PM
Welcome back, Kade.

+1

Bman
06-10-2009, 05:28 PM
What is homopolitics?

It's what Miniarchy4sale does with his friends.

Bodhi
06-10-2009, 05:32 PM
It DOES have to do with my right to not deal with them if I so choose though. It also means that I have the right not to recognize their 'marriages'.

Liberty is freedom from negative GOVERNMENT consequences. The problem with homopolitics is that it isnt about equal rights relative to government, but is instead focused on enforcing social acceptance through government force.

That isnt liberty.

For one, I don't think that marriage should have anything to do with the state. I can see why the state loves it, but it should not be in their hands, imho.

I think if your church, or you personally don't want to recognize the marriage of a gay couple, there is nothing wrong with that. On the other side of the coin, if a another church wants to recognize their marriage, that is fine too.

Unfortunately, the state decides who can and cannot get married. The state, imho, should not be allowed to take away the right of two sovereign people the right to marriage. In that case the government is creating a negative consequence.

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:37 PM
It's what Miniarchy4sale does with his friends.

Homopolitics is book burning?

dannno
06-10-2009, 05:38 PM
What is homopolitics?

No gay people I know want to force Christian churches to marry gay people or anything like that, they just want equal rights under the law.

However, inevitably there end up being frivolous lawsuits by gay people when institutions choose not to marry them or serve them in some other regard, and there is a fringe element of gay people who may sue these institutions. He is referring to the extremists who want to force everybody to cater to them when nobody should be forced to cater to anybody.

Bman
06-10-2009, 05:38 PM
Homopolitics is book burning?

Well that and disappearing into a back room with the alter boy.

Nirvikalpa
06-10-2009, 05:39 PM
For one, I don't think that marriage should have anything to do with the state. I can see why the state loves it, but it should not be in their hands, imho.

I think if your church, or you personally don't want to recognize the marriage of a gay couple, there is nothing wrong with that. On the other side of the coin, if a another church wants to recognize their marriage, that is fine too.

Unfortunately, the state decides who can and cannot get married. The state, imho, should not be allowed to take away the right of two sovereign people the right to marriage. In that case the government is creating a negative consequence.

+1

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:41 PM
No gay people I know want to force Christian churches to marry gay people or anything like that, they just want equal rights under the law.

However, inevitably there end up being frivolous lawsuits by gay people when institutions choose not to marry them or serve them in some other regard, and there is a fringe element of gay people who may sue these institutions. He is referring to the extremists who want to force everybody to cater to them when nobody should be forced to cater to anybody.

I cringe at the thought of the government forcing the churches to do anything, as much as I cringe at the thought of the churches forcing the government.... which is more common?

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:41 PM
For one, I don't think that marriage should have anything to do with the state. I can see why the state loves it, but it should not be in their hands, imho.

I think if your church, or you personally don't want to recognize the marriage of a gay couple, there is nothing wrong with that. On the other side of the coin, if a another church wants to recognize their marriage, that is fine too.

Unfortunately, the state decides who can and cannot get married. The state, imho, should not be allowed to take away the right of two sovereign people the right to marriage. In that case the government is creating a negative consequence.

We agree that the state should get out of the marriage business. It should also get out of the employment business, the restaurant business, the farm business, the education business....

That I think is really my major complaint about homopolitics. Those activists are attempting to use the government to protect their behavior from societal disapproval by making it legally impossible for anyone to impose meaningful social costs on them. That makes them enemies of liberty.

dannno
06-10-2009, 05:43 PM
I cringe at the thought of the government forcing the churches to do anything, as much as I cringe at the thought of the churches forcing the government.... which is more common?

Religious political organizations forcing the government seems more common.

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:44 PM
We agree that the state should get out of the marriage business. It should also get out of the employment business, the restaurant business, the farm business, the education business....

That I think is really my major complaint about homopolitics. Those activists are attempting to use the government to protect their behavior from societal disapproval by making it legally impossible for anyone to impose meaningful social costs on them. That makes them enemies of liberty.

Anyone who uses non-violence, speech, and courtrooms to "force" their opinions and thoughts on people are enemies of liberty indeed.

Bman
06-10-2009, 05:44 PM
The churches forcing the government.

Yup most feared institution to the liberty of Americans.

dannno
06-10-2009, 05:45 PM
So I think that lesbians are in fact a gift from God. I guess that means I disagree with everybody who has been participating in this thread. Not uncommon.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:45 PM
No gay people I know want to force Christian churches to marry gay people or anything like that, they just want equal rights under the law.

However, inevitably there end up being frivolous lawsuits by gay people when institutions choose not to marry them or serve them in some other regard, and there is a fringe element of gay people who may sue these institutions. He is referring to the extremists who want to force everybody to cater to them when nobody should be forced to cater to anybody.

There already is a considerable amount of litigation against individuals who do not want to deal with homosexuals in states where nondiscrimination protections have been extended to those who engage in homosexual behavior. It is not a fringe problem, it is a real problem.

Try refusing to rent an apartment, or give a job, or serve in your restaurant, a gay person in California. Youll be bankrupted overnight.

Bman
06-10-2009, 05:46 PM
So I think that lesbians are in fact a gift from God. I guess that means I disagree with everybody who has been participating in this thread. Not uncommon.

If I was a woman I'd certainly be one.

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:47 PM
There already is a considerable amount of litigation against individuals who do not want to deal with homosexuals in states where nondiscrimination protections have been extended to those who engage in homosexual behavior. It is not a fringe problem, it is a real problem.

Try refusing to rent an apartment, or give a job, or serve in your restaurant, a gay person in California. Youll be bankrupted overnight.

Just out of curiosity, why would you deny a person a chance to do business with you? Refuse them an apartment, for instance?

Maybe the answer to that question could demonstrate a little more what kind of person you are, on the inside.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 05:47 PM
Religious political organizations forcing the government seems more common.

Funny, I see alot more state interference with church activity. Let a preacher criticize the government.... Then there is the thousands of clergymen being recruited by FEMA...

Dr.3D
06-10-2009, 05:48 PM
Oh look, an atheist who says there is no God, now says he knows what God approves of.

Anybody see a bit of cognitive dissonance here?

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:48 PM
There already is a considerable amount of litigation against individuals who do not want to deal with homosexuals in states where nondiscrimination protections have been extended to those who engage in homosexual behavior. It is not a fringe problem, it is a real problem.

Try refusing to rent an apartment, or give a job, or serve in your restaurant, a gay person in California. Youll be bankrupted overnight.

Just out of curiosity, why would you deny a person a chance to do business with you? Refuse them an apartment, for instance, simply because of their sexual orientation? If privacy laws are enforced, protecting individual right to privacy, how would you know?

Maybe the answer to that question could demonstrate a little more what kind of person you are, on the inside.

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:49 PM
Oh look, an atheist who says there is no God, now says he knows what God approves of.

Anybody see a bit of cognitive dissonance here?

I see sarcasm taken literally.

Cognitive dissonance applies more to people who believe in liberty and demand anyone who disagrees with them to keep their mouths shut.

Anti Federalist
06-10-2009, 05:53 PM
Just out of curiosity, why would you deny a person a chance to do business with you? Refuse them an apartment, for instance, simply because of their sexual orientation? If privacy laws are enforced, protecting individual right to privacy, how would you know?

Maybe the answer to that question could demonstrate a little more what kind of person you are, on the inside.

Because some people's deeply held convictions mean more to them than money.

Would you rent your dining hall to the Klan for their monthly meetings?

Kade
06-10-2009, 05:57 PM
Because some people's deeply held convictions mean more to them than money.

Would you rent your dining hall to the Klan for their monthly meetings?

I do believe being a member of a noted hate group, is, by definition, a choice. I see your point, but I believe their is a common ground on things people cannot help, or at the very least, have an equal opportunity in engagement.

That being said, if it wasn't going to hurt my business, and they had the money. I could care less if they were goatfuckers.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by Kade View Post
Just out of curiosity, why would you deny a person a chance to do business with you? Refuse them an apartment, for instance, simply because of their sexual orientation? If privacy laws are enforced, protecting individual right to privacy, how would you know?

Maybe the answer to that question could demonstrate a little more what kind of person you are, on the inside.

Since you are on the 'militant atheist' ignore list, the only way I am going to see you address me is if someone replies to it, so it may be best not to bother.

In this case, I did see your response so..

I would refuse to do business with a lot of people. Illegal immigrants come to mind. Alcoholics, drug addicts, child molesters,

As for gays, though I disapprove of their lifestyle, I personally have nothing against them, so long as I dont have to see their behaviors that should be private. So its not about my right to discriminate much as it is about other individuals right to choose who they do business with for their own reasons, without government interference.

Freedom means the freedom to not like people, for ANY reason, good or bad.

Objectivist
06-10-2009, 06:14 PM
Since you are on the 'militant atheist' ignore list, the only way I am going to see you address me is if someone replies to it, so it may be best not to bother.

In this case, I did see your response so..

I would refuse to do business with a lot of people. Illegal immigrants come to mind. Alcoholics, drug addicts, child molesters,

As for gays, though I disapprove of their lifestyle, I personally have nothing against them, so long as I dont have to see their behaviors that should be private. So its not about my right to discriminate much as it is about other individuals right to choose who they do business with for their own reasons, without government interference.

Freedom means the freedom to not like people, for ANY reason, good or bad.

I suggest that if you put someone on your ignore list, have the courtesy to stay off my/their thread.

Dr.3D
06-10-2009, 06:21 PM
I see sarcasm taken literally.

Cognitive dissonance applies more to people who believe in liberty and demand anyone who disagrees with them to keep their mouths shut.

Well, I keep telling you, the wind doesn't have a brain.

I've told you thais over and over again.

Now I'm going to tell you what the wind is thinking and you better believe I know what I'm talking about.

Kade
06-10-2009, 06:25 PM
Well, I keep telling you, the wind doesn't have a brain.

I've told you thais over and over again.

Now I'm going to tell you what the wind is thinking and you better believe I know what I'm talking about.

If you used stones to justify what the wind says, and you say that the wind says "I blow only east", and when I read the stone, useless as it may be, and I see that it says instead, "I blow slightly north", calling you out doesn't mean I believe the stone, or that the wind is talking, merely that it is of note that even your cherished stone says you are wrong.

Surely you see the distinction.

Bodhi
06-10-2009, 07:02 PM
Those activists are attempting to use the government to protect their behavior from societal disapproval by making it legally impossible for anyone to impose meaningful social costs on them. That makes them enemies of liberty.

Are you saying that you want it to be legal to impose social costs on a person based on their sexuality? Can you please clarify for me. Also, please define what you mean by "social costs".

Bodhi
06-10-2009, 07:13 PM
I suggest that if you put someone on your ignore list, have the courtesy to stay off my/their thread.

Minarchy4Sale seems to be a fan of discrimination, so hopefully he/she respects your right to discriminate against him/her and he/she will stay off the thread. Lets see if Minarchy4Sale's convictions hold true and he/she respects your right to discriminate.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 07:19 PM
Are you saying that you want it to be legal to impose social costs on a person based on their sexuality?

Absolutely. Sexual behavior is no different than any other sort of behavior. The only way a society or culture can reward certain successful behaviors or punish unsuccessful behaviors short of a draconian social code is through shunning or seeking. Those who engage in those behaviors that are bad for society get shunned, those who engage in behaviors good for society are sought.


Can you please clarify for me. Also, please define what you mean by "social costs".

Sure. Think of social and business networks as a marketplace of ideas, and instead of voting with just dollars, you vote with opportunty, with your time. In a truly free market, people are free to associate with who they choose, and do business with whom they choose, and likewise exclude those they choose. We do this all the time with other issues.

Women more often than not seek the companionship of men successful in some way, they discriminate against losers living in their mothers basements.

businesspeople discriminate against the ugly and fat in job searches.

in this country, slutty women used to be discriminated against in many ways, since we got rid of that standard via government force, we now worship paris hilton....

So long as government doesnt get involved, every sort of behavior is balanced with a 'social cost' (people are less likely to want to deal with you).

In a minarchical society, social costs are the only way to regulate morality.

Minarchy4Sale
06-10-2009, 07:20 PM
Minarchy4Sale seems to be a fan of discrimination, so hopefully he/she respects your right to discriminate against him/her and he/she will stay off the thread. Lets see if Minarchy4Sale's convictions hold true and he/she respects your right to discriminate.

Id certainly stay out of his house, but the thread doesnt belong to him.

Bman
06-10-2009, 07:28 PM
Id certainly stay out of his house, but the thread doesnt belong to him.

Bump, so everyone can see what a tard Minarchy4Sale is.

Bodhi
06-10-2009, 07:28 PM
Absolutely. Sexual behavior is no different than any other sort of behavior. The only way a society or culture can reward certain successful behaviors or punish unsuccessful behaviors short of a draconian social code is through shunning or seeking.

Wow, very interesting comment. I will have to save my response for tomorrow. It is 4 am where I am and way past my bed time. So off to bed for me and I will revisit this thread later.

Sandman33
06-10-2009, 08:00 PM
I'm not forcing anybody to accept anything, I just think that two girls in really close quarters is extremely attractive and very beautiful to behold :)

Sure two lipstick lesbians usualy being paid to do it. But you will find that the vast majority of lesbians are nothing of the sort and hate your guts just because you have a penis.