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JP2010
06-05-2009, 01:03 PM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/027084.html

The FBI has arrested Bernard von Nothaus and three associates for minting and selling one-ounce silver medallions called the Liberty Dollar, and describing them as money. This operation was first disrupted during the Ron Paul presidential campaign, and that was no coincidence, since they were minting Ron Paul copper, silver, and gold medallions, and that was the subject of much MSM publicity. But here is the DOJ press release about the current arrests, and the 13-page indictment.

As the press release puts it, all four defendants are charged with "conspiracy and other charges in connection with an alleged unlawful operation to publish, possess and sell for profit, coins in resemblance and similitude to U.S. coins. All four defendants are also charged in the alleged conspiracy with uttering and passing, and attempting to utter and pass, a coin of silver in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States in the denominations of five dollars and greater, and intended for use as current money."

Oh sure, we are likely to mistake an ounce of silver for the tin junk uttered and passed by the US Mint. The actual charge the feds care about is at the end, that the Liberty Dollar is "intended for use as current money," in direct competition with the state. Should someone be allowed to mint whatever he wants, charge whatever he wants, and try to pass it as money? Of course, so long as no fraud is involved (fraud being a government monopoly). So it is an outrage that these four people have been arrested for non-crimes, and will be tried in a federal kangaroo court, where they will not be allowed to mention the Constitution or many other things, and perhaps be put in cages for years when they are pronounced "guilty."

Free the Liberty Dollar Four and all political prisoners!

South Park Fan
06-05-2009, 02:59 PM
How do Liberty Dollars even remotely resemble U.S. dollars?

Kludge
06-05-2009, 03:01 PM
How do Liberty Dollars even remotely resemble U.S. dollars?

The problem is that they put dollar amounts on the coins.

The coins may only be worth $10 at melt value, but they're putting $20 marks on them, and thus "debasing the value of the dollar". The irony makes it a fantastic story.

RideTheDirt
06-05-2009, 03:03 PM
The problem is that they put dollar amounts on the coins.

The coins may only be worth $10 at melt value, but they're putting $20 marks on them, and thus "debasing the value of the dollar". The irony makes it a fantastic story.
like they give a shit about that.

Freedom 4 all
06-05-2009, 03:13 PM
The problem is that they put dollar amounts on the coins.

The coins may only be worth $10 at melt value, but they're putting $20 marks on them, and thus "debasing the value of the dollar". The irony makes it a fantastic story.

OH THE IRONING. That's not even like the pot calling the kettle black. That's like an actual black person calling Obama black. Or Chosen calling me a racist for telling the preceding joke.

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 03:23 PM
Well, people have actually been taking the 1oz of .999 silver rounds, which are stamped $50; and passing them off as $50 coins. Shops that take them in ignorance are getting robbed. I like the Liberty Dollar guys; but seriously, he would not be in trouble if only he marked them with a material and a weight, instead of denominating them in dollars. Marking $15 worth of silver with a $50 imprint, and then people spend them as if they were really $50 coins is kinda ugly.

The only thing *I* can see that he did wrong, was marking $15 worth of silver with a $50 denomination. Still, he would be in a lot better place ethically if he marked them "1oz" instead of $50

Kotin
06-05-2009, 03:50 PM
like they give a shit about that.

they just dont want any competition..

Arklatex
06-05-2009, 04:33 PM
What's the difference from putting a price tag on something? The melt value of shoes isn't $60 but they sure has hell tag it for that.

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 06:07 PM
What's the difference from putting a price tag on something? The melt value of shoes isn't $60 but they sure has hell tag it for that.

I for one would be pissed if someone sold me $15 worth of silver for $50; and might well be pressing charges of fraud.

Dr.3D
06-05-2009, 06:13 PM
I for one would be pissed if someone sold me $15 worth of silver for $50; and might well be pressing charges of fraud.

I know of a number of places where you could spend it for $50 worth of food or other items.

The ones you should be pissed at would be the ones giving you a $0.04 piece of paper for $100.00.

Dieseler
06-05-2009, 06:22 PM
Good points on both sides of this debate.
I'm partial a bit to the idea of being a bit angry that out of ignorance I might buy $15.00 worth of Gold and pay a premium $50.00 for it. I think Mr. Nuthause is a glutton for punishment personally and if he is trying to make a point it will be hard to make a follow up on it from prison.
He could easily find a much better avenue of assault on our unsightly monetary system with his undeniable numismatic skills if he tried a bit harder.

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 06:40 PM
I know of a number of places where you could spend it for $50 worth of food or other items.

The ones you should be pissed at would be the ones giving you a $0.04 piece of paper for $100.00.

I seriously don't care about worthless US currency. It's all about the fact that these things are marked at a face value at 350% of their melt value. And, they are actually being passed to stores as US Currency. That's ALL I care about.

Store clerks are not by and large the brightest pencils in the box of lightbulbs; of course there are always exceptions; but especially foreign clerks or waitresses working in the US.

to me, this would be akin to taking a $10 bill, whipping out a sharpie marker and writing "$50" where the 10 belongs, and then handing it to the clerk and being happy when they have me back change for a $50

Just because the US Gov is defrauding the American people doesn't make it OK for this guy to do it too.

Dr.3D
06-05-2009, 06:45 PM
I seriously don't care about worthless US currency. It's all about the fact that these things are marked at a face value at 350% of their melt value. And, they are actually being passed to stores as US Currency. That's ALL I care about.

Store clerks are not by and large the brightest pencils in the box of lightbulbs; of course there are always exceptions; but especially foreign clerks or waitresses working in the US.

to me, this would be akin to taking a $10 bill, whipping out a sharpie marker and writing "$50" where the 10 belongs, and then handing it to the clerk and being happy when they have me back change for a $50

Just because the US Gov is defrauding the American people doesn't make it OK for this guy to do it too.

I've actually had people offer to buy those $20 one ounce Liberty rounds from me.
They claimed they had never seen one before and would like to add it to their collection.

I remember once when I first started out with the Liberty Dollar, I went to the store and with one of the $10 one ounce Liberty Dollar rounds and showed it to the cashier. She exclaimed she wanted it and I could use it to purchase whatever I wanted for $10. I even told her it wasn't United States currency but she said she didn't care and wanted it anyway.

I saw her last week and offered to buy it back from her for $15 and she refused.

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 06:49 PM
Good points on both sides of this debate.
I'm partial a bit to the idea of being a bit angry that out of ignorance I might buy $15.00 worth of Gold and pay a premium $50.00 for it. I think Mr. Nuthause is a glutton for punishment personally and if he is trying to make a point it will be hard to make a follow up on it from prison.
He could easily find a much better avenue of assault on our unsightly monetary system with his undeniable numismatic skills if he tried a bit harder.

All he had to do was to make the thing look different from the coins produced by the US mint, and call them something other than dollars.

Making them look JUST LIKE American money, and denominating them in dollars is technically illegal, but I wouldn't actually care if they were denominated at melt value.

But to make them look just like US coins, and then denominate them in dollars, AND mark them at 350% of melt value..... the three together is fraud, IMHO.

The last go-round with this guy I was in NotHouse's court. But now (remember, I am in NC) I have heard of these being passed and accepted at face value in places around the state especially in the western half of the state.

Users target foreign store clerks and restaurant waitresses who are not likely to know that America does not have a $50 coin. They pay with this coin and receive change as if they paid $50. The user, of course, only has about $25-$30 into the coin; and passes it as a $50, so he profits $20-$25 from fraud.

The victim will get at MOST melt value of $15 (or nothing at all if they turn it into the authorities) and gave out product plus change to $50. The store owner/restaurant just lost $35-$50 as the victim of fraud.

When I heard that these things were being successfully passed as $50 coins in the area, and that NotHouse knew about it and didn't care. My opinion changed.

All he had to do was to make them look different than US currency. All he had to do was denominate the coins in something other than dollars. All he had to do was make the face value somewhat resemble melt value. Had he done ANY of those things then it would have been something...but not fraud.

As it stands, and until I learn something different, I am not so sympathetic to NotHouse this time around.

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 06:51 PM
I've actually had people offer to buy those $20 one ounce Liberty rounds from me.
They claimed they had never seen one before and would like to add it to their collection.

I remember once when I first started out with the Liberty Dollar, I went to the store and with one of the $10 one ounce Liberty Dollar rounds and showed it to the cashier. She exclaimed she wanted it and I could use it to purchase whatever I wanted for $10. I even told her it wasn't United States currency but she said she didn't care and wanted it anyway.

I saw her last week and offered to buy it back from her for $15 and she refused.

How is that relevant to shop owners who are being willfully defrauded in this area?

Dr.3D
06-05-2009, 06:53 PM
How is that relevant to shop owners who are being willfully defrauded in this area?

If they really are being passed as U.S. currency, then it would be the fault of the person offering the round, not the person who is selling them.

They even say on the back they are private voluntary barter currency and have a MSRP of $20.
http://www.libertydollar.org/graphics/home/2009_s_lib.jpg

klamath
06-05-2009, 07:03 PM
Personally I think this guy is no asset to RP or the movement. I remember when he came out with the RP dollar and said He would donate so much to RP for every dollar sold. Nowhere could I find how much he was going to donate. Putting these values on the coins, I believe his intent is to defraud the buyer into thinking they are getting that value in gold weight like most other precious metals coins are sold. As a Jeweler I buy 1 ounce .999 fine gold coins to melt down and alloy with base metals to form my karat gold alloys. This is the cheapest way to to get karat gold alloys for jewelry. A 1 oz. gold coin can be purchased for just 30 or so dollars over the going price per oz of gold. If I wasn't wise enought to know better I would be pissed if I bought gold at this guys markup.
All the arguments about the feds doing the same thing thing are valid but that doesn't make me like what this guy is doing any more than it makes me like the fed.

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 07:10 PM
If they really are being passed as U.S. currency, then it would be the fault of the person offering the round, not the person who is selling them.

They even say on the back they are private voluntary barter currency and have a MSRP of $20.
http://www.libertydollar.org/graphics/home/2009_s_lib.jpg

That may be; but he knew that his product was being used to defraud stores in the area and didn't care. He makes money by selling over melt. he allows his customers to make money be denominating over sales price; him and his customers make out like bandits while local shops get conned and robbed. This at least meets the definition of conspiracy to defraud.

If he didn't want to get in trouble he should have called them something other than dollars, OR at least denominated them near or at value, which while technically illegal would at least not have been wrong, or theft.

Like I said, I was completely in this guy's court last go-round. This time I'm not so sympathetic. Everything I am seeing on the guy now tells me that he was a willing participant in allowing his customers to perpetrate fraud on the local marketplace.

If I was that store owner I'd sure as hell want somebodies head on a platter.

NotHouse could have prevented all of this simply by calling them something else, or making them look different from US coin.

Someone suggested making them octagon and denominating them in weights. Then he would have been 100% in the clear.

After hearing reams of testimony after his last trial from shopkeepers losing money off of this, he goes back and does it again. First time a mistake. I'll buy that, Keep it up anyway and it becomes conspiracy to commit fraud.

tpreitzel
06-05-2009, 07:35 PM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/027084.html

The FBI has arrested Bernard von Nothaus and three associates for minting and selling one-ounce silver medallions called the Liberty Dollar, and describing them as money. This operation was first disrupted during the Ron Paul presidential campaign, and that was no coincidence, since they were minting Ron Paul copper, silver, and gold medallions, and that was the subject of much MSM publicity. But here is the DOJ press release about the current arrests, and the 13-page indictment.

As the press release puts it, all four defendants are charged with "conspiracy and other charges in connection with an alleged unlawful operation to publish, possess and sell for profit, coins in resemblance and similitude to U.S. coins. All four defendants are also charged in the alleged conspiracy with uttering and passing, and attempting to utter and pass, a coin of silver in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States in the denominations of five dollars and greater, and intended for use as current money."

Oh sure, we are likely to mistake an ounce of silver for the tin junk uttered and passed by the US Mint. The actual charge the feds care about is at the end, that the Liberty Dollar is "intended for use as current money," in direct competition with the state. Should someone be allowed to mint whatever he wants, charge whatever he wants, and try to pass it as money? Of course, so long as no fraud is involved (fraud being a government monopoly). So it is an outrage that these four people have been arrested for non-crimes, and will be tried in a federal kangaroo court, where they will not be allowed to mention the Constitution or many other things, and perhaps be put in cages for years when they are pronounced "guilty."

Free the Liberty Dollar Four and all political prisoners!

Expressed nicely ...

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 07:44 PM
Expressed nicely ...

Problem is they ARE being mistaken for real money, all over western NC. And a coin with a melt value of $15 is denominated at "$50"

Lew can scoff all he wants that nobody would mistake them for real money, but they ARE being mistaken for real money, and they are being exchanged for 350% of their real value.

Let's assume that we are a complete anarchy. No Federal Reserve, no US government, no government at all.

Someone passes $15 worth of bullion as though it were worth $50, that is fraud, and a violation of NAP no matter what government you live under.

This is akin to taking a 1000oz gold bullion brick, drilling it out and filling it with lead, plugging the hole with gold and then selling it like it was a solid gold bullion brick.

Just because the Feds are after this guy doesn't mean he's not in the wrong.

Dr.3D
06-05-2009, 07:46 PM
Snip~
After hearing reams of testimony after his last trial from shopkeepers losing money off of this, he goes back and does it again. First time a mistake. I'll buy that, Keep it up anyway and it becomes conspiracy to commit fraud.

Actually, there never was a first trial, this is the first time there has been any kind of arrest.
It took all this time for the government to build any kind of a case against them.

Meanwhile, the government has held all of the confiscated metals and computer equipment without any due process.

tpreitzel
06-05-2009, 07:49 PM
Problem is they ARE being mistaken for real money, all over western NC. And a coin with a melt value of $15 is denominated at "$50"

Lew can scoff all he wants that nobody would mistake them for real money, but they ARE being mistaken for real money, and they are being exchanged for 350% of their real value.

Let's assume that we are a complete anarchy. No Federal Reserve, no US government, no government at all.

Someone passes $15 worth of bullion as though it were worth $50, that is fraud, and a violation of NAP no matter what government you live under.

This is akin to taking a 1000oz gold bullion brick, drilling it out and filling it with lead, plugging the hole with gold and then selling it like it was a solid gold bullion brick.

Just because the Feds are after this guy doesn't mean he's not in the wrong.

Could government be artificially suppressing the price of an ounce of silver expressed in FRNs? If so, who's committing an act of fraud?

Dr.3D
06-05-2009, 07:51 PM
Could government be artificially suppressing the price of an ounce of silver expressed in FRNs? If so, who's committing an act of fraud?

Sure seems possible. That would account for how long it took them to get the price of silver low enough and hold it there to make this look like fraud.

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 07:55 PM
Could government be artificially suppressing the price of an ounce of silver expressed in FRNs? If so, who's committing an act of fraud?

:boggle: seriously?

So because the US Gov perpetrates fraud on the American people (not under dispute) therefore we now should have a free-for-all where everybody gets to defraud everybody else?

Heck, why have laws or a NAP at all? The US Gov violates the Non Aggression Principle with all of it's interventionism, so now it should be legal for me to go next door with a shotgun and blow my neighbors away because "I thought he was building a weapon, or something, yeah."

No way!

Just because the thugs in charge of our government are criminals, does not make it right for me, or for Nothous to become criminals.

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 08:01 PM
Actually, there never was a first trial, this is the first time there has been any kind of arrest.
It took all this time for the government to build any kind of a case against them.

Meanwhile, the government has held all of the confiscated metals and computer equipment without any due process.

Like I said, I was 100% in his court the first go-round. the records are here on RPF's somewhere for all to see.

But this guy is playing with a stacked deck. I'm guessing that I, and most of us simply didn't know that at the time.

How can you not get that fraud is still fraud even if the perpetrator is sympathetic and the victim is unsympathetic?

So the victims are usually foreign store clerks who have a tough time with English, and the perpetrators tend to like Ron Paul. Does that really make it any less of a crime?

In that exact same line of thought, if Joe runs for congress, and someone who helped elect him commits a crime against one of his political enemies...Joe should cover it up?

We can't play favorites here. We either stand for justice and right and the rule of law, or we don't.

Is it somehow less of a crime because the victims of this fraud tend to be immigrants? Is that it? Or is it somehow less of a crime because the man doing it likes Ron Paul?

Dr.3D
06-05-2009, 08:04 PM
Like I said, I was 100% in his court the first go-round. the records are here on RPF's somewhere for all to see.

But this guy is playing with a stacked deck. I'm guessing that I, and most of us simply didn't know that at the time.

How can you not get that fraud is still fraud even if the perpetrator is sympathetic and the victim is unsympathetic?

So the victims are usually foreign store clerks who have a tough time with English, and the perpetrators tend to like Ron Paul. Does that really make it any less of a crime?

In that exact same line of thought, if Joe runs for congress, and someone who helped elect him commits a crime against one of his political enemies...Joe should cover it up?

We can't play favorites here. We either stand for justice and right and the rule of law, or we don't.

Is it somehow less of a crime because the victims of this fraud tend to be immigrants? Is that it? Or is it somehow less of a crime because the man doing it likes Ron Paul?

Oh I'm for justice. What I was saying is, there never has been a trial. This whole thing has been on hold for more than a year.

Edit: After all of what has happened, they didn't arrest anybody till now!
The title of this thread is misleading.

tpreitzel
06-05-2009, 08:06 PM
:boggle: seriously?

So because the US Gov perpetrates fraud on the American people (not under dispute) therefore we now should have a free-for-all where everybody gets to defraud everybody else?

Heck, why have laws or a NAP at all? The US Gov violates the Non Aggression Principle with all of it's interventionism, so now it should be legal for me to go next door with a shotgun and blow my neighbors away because "I thought he was building a weapon, or something, yeah."

No way!

Just because the thugs in charge of our government are criminals, does not make it right for me, or for Nothous to become criminals.

The basic problem: we do NOT have free markets. We do NOT have a currency based on REAL money, e.g. silver certificates. The current price of an ounce of silver as $15 is almost laughable. Finally, I, too, want to live in a world where everyone, i.e. you, me, government, and our fellow man, is honest. Maybe, government should be the FIRST to set an example for the rest of us instead of asking us to set an example (obey the "rules") while government continues to rip us off through every conceivable means including manipulation of markets.

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 08:10 PM
Oh I'm for justice. What I was saying is, there never has been a trial. This whole thing has been on hold for more than a year.

Yeah, I agree with you 100% on that. The Feds are clearly overreaching if they don't have the evidence for a trial then they have no business pursuing it. That I am with you 100%.

I am also vehemently opposed to the idea of seizing his metals and equipment and holding them for a year without a trial. That's nothing short of disgusting. Either the guy is guilty or not. Let him have his day in court, and if he is found not guilty, then return his stuff.

This thing that the Gov has now of seizing your stuff and just keeping it....keeping even if you get acquitted...that has got to stop NOW.

But let's not lose the bubble here and just start assuming that everybody the Feds go after are automatically heroes to our movement. They aren't.

Nothous may be the nicest guy in the world in person; but his operation stinks to high heaven.

At this point, I consider him akin to someone who drills out a gold brick and fills it with lead, but sells it at full value anyway.

That, of course, does not make what the Feds are doing 'right' either. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Dr.3D
06-05-2009, 08:13 PM
Yeah, I agree with you 100% on that. The Feds are clearly overreaching if they don't have the evidence for a trial then they have no business pursuing it. That I am with you 100%.

I am also vehemently opposed to the idea of seizing his metals and equipment and holding them for a year without a trial. That's nothing short of disgusting. Either the guy is guilty or not. Let him have his day in court, and if he is found not guilty, then return his stuff.

This thing that the Gov has now of seizing your stuff and just keeping it....keeping even if you get acquitted...that has got to stop NOW.

But let's not lose the bubble here and just start assuming that everybody the Feds go after are automatically heroes to our movement. They aren't.

Nothous may be the nicest guy in the world in person; but his operation stinks to high heaven.

At this point, I consider him akin to someone who drills out a gold brick and fills it with lead, but sells it at full value anyway.

That, of course, does not make what the Feds are doing 'right' either. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

So even if I agree with you that what Nothous is/was doing was wrong, it is still pretty interesting that they didn't arrest him when they 'stole' his stuff.

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 08:18 PM
The basic problem: we do NOT have free markets. We do NOT have a currency based on REAL money, e.g. silver certificates. The current price of an ounce of silver as $15 is almost laughable. Finally, I, too, want to live in a world where everyone, i.e. you, me, government, and our fellow man, is honest. Maybe, government should be the FIRST to set an example for the rest of us instead of asking us to set an example (obey the "rules") while government continues to rip us off through every conceivable means including manipulation of markets.

I agree that silver is artificially depressed, but the hard cold reality is that the spot price is what it is. Like it or not, that is the market value. Intentionally misrepresenting something at 350% of it's market value for the purpose of trade or barter is the dictionary definition of fraud.

Now, the REAL guilty parties are the people who pass these coins off to the stores. Probably what's going on here is that nobody has the resources to chase all these guys down, so they are going after the source.

Nothous may or may not be as guilty as the people who are actually passing these things off in stores, but he sure as heck knew it was happening, and later generations of coinage look MORE like us currency than the former versions, so it sure does look like he was aiding and abetting the practice.

But the real point is that it does not matter if the US Gov is committing fraud against the American people. of course they are. That does not make it right for US Citizens to commit fraud by virtue of the fact that the government does it.

The US Government murders, maims, and tortures. Does that mean that we should feel free to murder, maim, and torture as well?

If you are waiting for a world where the Government sets the example of integrity for the population to follow, then you are going to have an awful long wait...

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 08:21 PM
So even if I agree with you that what Nothous is/was doing was wrong, it is still pretty interesting that they didn't arrest him when they 'stole' his stuff.

Absolutely. And Nothous is not the only one they do this to. This has become standard practice amongst law enforcement nowadays. It's most especially apparent in the "War On Drugs" where they do this.

Someone can be arrested for distributing narcotics, completely cleared/acquitted of the crime, and yet the police continue to keep their computer(s) car(s) television(s) etc

It's just awful.

Dr.3D
06-05-2009, 08:25 PM
The government also took all of the silver and gold that was backing the gold and silver certificates. There is absolutely no way those certificates could have been mistaken for Federal Reserve notes.

So the government took all of the silver and gold that was backing private contracts.
http://i22.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/30/ca/eee5_1.JPG

GunnyFreedom
06-05-2009, 08:59 PM
The government also took all of the silver and gold that was backing the gold and silver certificates. There is absolutely no way those certificates could have been mistaken for Federal Reserve notes.

So the government took all of the silver and gold that was backing private contracts.
http://i22.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/30/ca/eee5_1.JPG

Thoroughly disgusting, I agree. That was my primary gripe with the FedGov's actions last go around with Nothous. These certificates of bullion deposit are (IMHO) clearly legal, and even if Nothous were obviously guilty of whatever else, then the bullion attached to those certificates by right belongs to the holders of those certificates, and NOT NOT NOT to the damn Fed.

Mordan
06-06-2009, 05:04 AM
just because the us gov is defrauding the american people doesn't make it ok for this guy to do it too.

+1000

Njon
06-06-2009, 09:23 AM
Update on this issue. Check it out: http://digg.com/d1t7P2

Njon
06-06-2009, 09:24 AM
Here's an update from the founder of the Liberty Dollar: http://digg.com/d1t7P2

Matt Collins
04-23-2011, 05:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0D7s4MfbQE







He was also recently interviewed on Freedom Watch by Judge Napolitano:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufHiZKKh9Hw#t=27m0s

brandon
04-23-2011, 05:39 PM
Collins, you really aren't doing anyone a service with the multiple old thread bumps.

low preference guy
04-23-2011, 05:43 PM
Collins, you really aren't doing anyone a service with the multiple old thread bumps.

He was recently told exactly that, with a good explanation. Because of that, he is doing it again, so everyone can see what a badass the Collins is.

I wish he would grow up too and stop acting like 12-year-old brat, but I don't expect it to happen.

tangent4ronpaul
04-23-2011, 06:10 PM
Why is the FBI involved with this? The Secret Service is supposed to be in charge of counterfeiting cases.

Anti Federalist
04-23-2011, 06:25 PM
Personally I think this guy is no asset to RP or the movement.

Old thread is old...that said.

Why does that not surprise me?

Seems to me nobody is an asset but you perhaps.

FWIW, $20 Ron Paul NORFED 1 ounce silvers are now selling for $355 on eBay.

That's a 1775% (how's that for a fortuitous number) increase over face value in four years

Wish I had bought a truckload from this "scammer".

speciallyblend
04-23-2011, 06:34 PM
Well, people have actually been taking the 1oz of .999 silver rounds, which are stamped $50; and passing them off as $50 coins. Shops that take them in ignorance are getting robbed. I like the Liberty Dollar guys; but seriously, he would not be in trouble if only he marked them with a material and a weight, instead of denominating them in dollars. Marking $15 worth of silver with a $50 imprint, and then people spend them as if they were really $50 coins is kinda ugly.

The only thing *I* can see that he did wrong, was marking $15 worth of silver with a $50 denomination. Still, he would be in a lot better place ethically if he marked them "1oz" instead of $50

seems logical

sratiug
04-23-2011, 06:43 PM
seems logical

Not entirely. Back in the day, everything in a store had a price tag on it. If you know anything about the supply chain, the retail price is often many times the price of manufacture. And the manufacturing cost of a Liberty Dollar would be much closer to the dollar value marked than a federal reserve note of the same value anyway.