Should Evil Teens Be Tried as Adults?

[clb09]

Take this satanic girl for example:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/06/05/2009-06-05_evil_teen_who_tossed_cat_in_the_oven.html


A Bronx teenager roasted her ex-roommate's kitten to death in a stove - then brushed off the incident as a joke when she was busted, authorities said Thursday.

"I hate cats," Cheyenne Cherry, 17, allegedly told investigators when asked about the heartless crime.



http://dingo.care2.com/pictures/c2c/share/11/116/600/1160097_370.jpg http://www.antipope.org/charlie/gifs/shoot_kitten.jpg

I think a good adult prison may do her some good!

[zach]

Therapy?

[Freedom 4 all]

What the fuck is wrong with people?

[slothman]

Assuming she can't vote then my usual "Taxation, or cat killing, without representation applies and the answer is no.
Why shoule they be smart/wise enough to know right from wrong but not to vote for people who do know.

[heavenlyboy34]

I think the SPCA would understand this case better than the government courts. :cool:


Take this satanic girl for example:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/06/05/2009-06-05_evil_teen_who_tossed_cat_in_the_oven.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/06/05/2009-06-05_evil_teen_who_tossed_cat_in_the_oven.html)



http://dingo.care2.com/pictures/c2c/share/11/116/600/1160097_370.jpg http://www.antipope.org/charlie/gifs/shoot_kitten.jpg

I think a good adult prison may do her some good!

[Kludge]

Uh, don't people routinely boil lobsters alive?

[FSP-Rebel]

The friend should slap her with a civil suit and make her pay up, then ostracize her.

[Brassmouth]

Uh, don't people routinely boil lobsters alive?

I was wondering when someone would inject some common sense into this thread.

[Krugerrand]

We have a messed up system for trying children. When kids do something terrible ... people cry they should be tried as an adult. How does committing a terrible crime make you an adult?

That said, we coddle our youth and do not demand personal responsibility from them. College students get drunk and do something stupid and people want to cut them slack not wanting to "ruin their lives." Sorry, tolerating irresponsible behavior only invites it to continue.

My theory ... 18 and you get everything that comes with being an adult. Alcohol, cigarettes, voting, marriage, judicial penalties. Put them all at the same age.

I would also add a few correlaries to my theory. 1 - "child" based legal systems need to distinguish between young children and older children. There's a big difference between a 7 year old shooting her brother and a 17 year old shooting her brother. We can tier that system somehow. 2 - I would also be willing to go along with adult recognition on completion of high school as young as 16.

I don't buy into the "brains don't develop blah blah blah theory." I think your brain responds to how its used. The brain isn't developing for responsible behavior because it isn't expected of it.

[BenIsForRon]

She needs therapy, not prison.

[clb09]

Uh, don't people routinely boil lobsters alive?

I guess people don't mind so much if the result of the animal death is sustenance for the human.

I don't think that "girl" ate the cat.

[Krugerrand]

I guess people don't mind so much if the result of the animal death is sustenance for the human.

I don't think that "girl" ate the cat.

I'm guessing lobsters lack the pain feeling nervous system that a cat has.

[Bman]

I think the SPCA would understand this case better than the government courts. :cool:

Are you kidding? Then they may have to deal with someone like my wife who would have them tied up in a dungeon and tortured.

[dannno]

College students get drunk and do something stupid and people want to cut them slack not wanting to "ruin their lives." Sorry, tolerating irresponsible behavior only invites it to continue.

Well the only time I ever hear this argument is when they are arrested for smoking herb, protesting, or being belligerent but not harming anybody. Nobody wants to ruin a potentially successful person's life over a crime which does not have a victim. Most people are libertarian at heart, but they hypocritically think that laws will discourage bad behavior from bad individuals. It is when a "good" individual, such as someone furthering their education comes into contact with these policies that society becomes hypocritical.

If a college student harms someone, I don't usually hear much of an outcry. As an example, some insane individual at my University decided to drive his jeep down the 25mph street at 60+mph and purposely mowed down a bunch of pedestrians walking in the street (pedestrians routinely walked in the street in this town). There was no outcry about ruining his life in jail.

[Bman]

The friend should slap her with a civil suit and make her pay up

Ummm unless it was a rare breed worth tons of money you may win $10.


then ostracize her.

Certainly agree here.

[paulim]

Therapy?

No, you shouldn't force someone else to pay for this piece of shit. The only solution for a free market can be a labor camp.

[Dr.3D]

My son had a pet rat and while he was away, some of his so called friends took it out and covered it with lighter fluid and lit it on fire.

He loved that rat and it was very tame and would do all kinds of tricks.

What kind of treatment should those who burned that rat alive get?

[ChaosControl]

She needs to be executed, I gladly volunteer to kill that piece of crap waste of human skin.

Yes, I hate animal abusers. I wish death to all of them.

[torchbearer]

If they are considered adults by law, then they should also be allowed to buy liquor, cigs, porn, guns, and also bind contracts.
If we are to apply the law equally and blindly- then age of responsibility should be held uniformly.

[paulim]

She needs to be executed, I gladly volunteer to kill that piece of crap waste of human skin.

Yes, I hate animal abusers. I wish death to all of them.

Thats OK. No need to apologize. I think someone who can do this to an animal, can also treat a human being this way. Theres nothing sacred for such a thug.

[heavenlyboy34]

Are you kidding? Then they may have to deal with someone like my wife who would have them tied up in a dungeon and tortured.

Kinda...I just meant someone who has expertise in the field. I thought the SPCA was cool, but this isn't my area of expertise.

[Reason]

Uh, don't people routinely boil lobsters alive?

:D

[Dr.3D]

Uh, don't people routinely boil lobsters alive?

They sure do, and it happens so fast, those lobsters don't even have a chance to scream.

[Kludge]

My son had a pet rat and while he was away, some of his so called friends took it out and covered it with lighter fluid and lit it on fire.

He loved that rat and it was very tame and would do all kinds of tricks.

What kind of treatment should those who burned that rat alive get?

Idunno if you're familiar with the "NEDM" meme, but it started off as a comment to a video of a cat (rabbit? I don't recall... Some small animal.) being lit on fire. I do believe it's still hosted somewhere in the depths of ytmnd.com

I gave up on trying to "correct" people long ago (even before I decided self-defense was unacceptable aggression)... I'd rather just be left alone.

[torchbearer]

Idunno if you're familiar with the "NEDM" meme, but it started off as a comment to a video of a cat (rabbit? I don't recall... Some small animal.) being lit on fire. I do believe it's still hosted somewhere in the depths of ytmnd.com

I gave up on trying to "correct" people long ago (even before I decided self-defense was unacceptable aggression)... I'd rather just be left alone.

wait- you don't believe in defending yourself using aggression?
where do you live again? I think i've just found a new source of income.

[Dr.3D]

Idunno if you're familiar with the "NEDM" meme, but it started off as a comment to a video of a cat (rabbit? I don't recall... Some small animal.) being lit on fire. I do believe it's still hosted somewhere in the depths of ytmnd.com

I gave up on trying to "correct" people long ago (even before I decided self-defense was unacceptable aggression)... I'd rather just be left alone.

(Stands in the toilet and pulls the chain.)

[Kludge]

wait- you don't believe in defending yourself using aggression?
where do you live again? I think i've just found a new source of income.

You can have all 10 popcans I've been saving for a rainy day, I guess.

[torchbearer]

You can have all 10 popcans I've been saving for a rainy day, I guess.

You like Jamaica? I know some guys that run this slave ring. They pay good money for males.

[coyote_sprit]

Do they still make human sized ovens?

[Kludge]

Do they still make human sized ovens?

Teens or black people?


... Or kittens?

[coyote_sprit]

http://www.myspace.com/shortypopoff11

Just leaving that there.

[Dr.3D]

Teens or black people?


... Or kittens?

Yes!

[Freedom 4 all]

Uh, don't people routinely boil lobsters alive?

Yes, but lobsters are not cute and soft and fluffy so no one cares.

[Kludge]

Yes, but lobsters are not cute and soft and fluffy so no one cares.

Maybe if they were called Sea Kittens....

[Goldhunter27]

As I type this I know that 4chan is about to undertake some vigilante justice on this broad.

[Kludge]

As I type this I know that 4chan is about to undertake some vigilante justice on this broad.

Oh noes -- an invasion.


Do they know that there's a waiting period requiring admin permission to start an account?


Edit: From a very recent xkcd.com comic....

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/troll_slayer.png (http://xkcd.com/591/)

[Theocrat]

Take this satanic girl for example:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/06/05/2009-06-05_evil_teen_who_tossed_cat_in_the_oven.html



http://dingo.care2.com/pictures/c2c/share/11/116/600/1160097_370.jpg http://www.antipope.org/charlie/gifs/shoot_kitten.jpg

I think a good adult prison may do her some good!

She owes her ex-roommate a new kitten. Let her work and save up money to purchase one. That should be her penalty, as sick as it was for her to roast a kitten.

Better yet, her penalty should be mandatory PETA sessions and examinations for a month. That'll straighten her out.

[Number19]

We have a messed up system for trying children. When kids do something terrible ... people cry they should be tried as an adult. How does committing a terrible crime make you an adult?

That said, we coddle our youth and do not demand personal responsibility from them. College students get drunk and do something stupid and people want to cut them slack not wanting to "ruin their lives." Sorry, tolerating irresponsible behavior only invites it to continue.

My theory ... 18 and you get everything that comes with being an adult. Alcohol, cigarettes, voting, marriage, judicial penalties. Put them all at the same age.

I would also add a few correlaries to my theory. 1 - "child" based legal systems need to distinguish between young children and older children. There's a big difference between a 7 year old shooting her brother and a 17 year old shooting her brother. We can tier that system somehow. 2 - I would also be willing to go along with adult recognition on completion of high school as young as 16.

I don't buy into the "brains don't develop blah blah blah theory." I think your brain responds to how its used. The brain isn't developing for responsible behavior because it isn't expected of it.Are the "young" of any species capable of reproducing? For humans, around the age of 13/puberty you have historically crossed the line from childhood into adulthood. These are "young adults" - they are not children.

[idiom]

“Mr. Dubois, didn’t they have police? Or courts?”
“They had many more police than we have. And more courts. All overworked.”
“I guess I don’t get it.” If a boy in our city had done anything half that bad . . . well, he and his father would have been flogged side by side. But such things just didn’t happen.


“The results should have been predictable, since a human being has no natural rights of any nature.”
Mr. Dubois had paused. Somebody took the bait.

“Sir? How about ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’?”
“Ah, yes, the ‘unalienable rights.’ Each year someone quotes that magnificent poetry. Life? What ‘right’ to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What ‘right’ to life has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of ‘right’? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man’s right is ‘unalienable’? And is it ‘right’? As to liberty, the heroes who signed that great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called ‘natural human rights’ that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost.

“The third ‘right’? -- the ‘pursuit of happiness’? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can ‘pursue happiness’ as long as my brain lives—but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it.”

Mr. Dubois then turned to me. “I told you that ‘juvenile delinquent’ is a contradiction in terms. ‘Delinquent’ means ‘failing in duty.’ But duty is an adult virtue—indeed a juvenile becomes an adult when, and only when, he acquires a knowledge of duty and embraces it as dearer than the self-love he was born with. There never was, there cannot be a ‘juvenile delinquent.’ But for every juvenile criminal there are always one or more adult delinquents -- people of mature years who either do not know their duty, or who, knowing it, fail.”

“And that was the soft spot which destroyed what was in many ways an admirable culture. The junior hoodlums who roamed their streets were symptoms of a greater sickness; their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of ‘rights’ . . . and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure.”

Everything I ever needed to know I learnt from Science Fiction.

[silverhandorder]

I would say it is pretty sicks but it is not criminal. What is criminal is killing some one's pet. There should be some justice in that regard.

[JeNNiF00F00]

Yes, but lobsters are not cute and soft and fluffy so no one cares.

Lobsters are lower on the food chain and are basically bugs of the sea and they are food. Most people don't eat cats. This was done out of cruelty and shows that she has NO respect for life. Kittens and Dogs and of the like TRUST humans to take care of them. I say stuff the girl in an oven and see how long she lasts as the heat builds up. People that kill animals for fun like this are sociopaths. Something is not right with her, she should not be allowed to mix among the rest of society and is basically scum.

[Kludge]

Lobsters are lower on the food chain and are basically bugs of the sea and they are food. Most people don't eat cats. This was done out of cruelty and shows that she has NO respect for life. Kittens and Dogs and of the like TRUST humans to take care of them. I say stuff the girl in an oven and see how long she lasts as the heat builds up. People that kill animals for fun like this are sociopaths. Something is not right with her, she should not be allowed to mix among the rest of society and is basically scum.

I'm more frightened by the lobster-boilers, cow-cutters, and pig-fuckers (http://tinyurl.com/pigfucking) who aren't ever ostracized by society.

If people aren't corrected by others, how will they ever learn the right morals?!

[Objectivist]

My opinion is consistency first. If you can't have sex with an adult before you turn 18, then we shouldn't be charging people under 18 with adult crimes when it suits our needs. If they are incapable of thinking like an adult in all areas of life then picking out a crime to charge them as an adult is off base.

I wouldn't be against charging everyone across the board under the same statutes on any crime. If you're guilty then go to jail.

Sick chick.

I don't like cats much but I wouldn't bake one.

[0zzy]

who the f^$# does this kinda crap.
maybe I should put her in an oven.
asshole.

(as for the lobsters, I think that's horrible too! ><)

[Objectivist]

who the f^$# does this kinda crap.
maybe I should put her in an oven.
asshole.

(as for the lobsters, I think that's horrible too! ><)

Jeffrey Dahmer did crap like this.

One of the trademarks of serial killers.

[paulim]

If people aren't corrected by others, how will they ever learn the right morals?!

In this case you don't need stress morals. Even a tribesman from inner africa whos free from western morals, as we know them, couldn't do that, because these natives have a much stronger admiration for life itself. They could kill as part of a ritual but not because they don't like a living being.

[SimpleName]

Assuming she can't vote then my usual "Taxation, or cat killing, without representation applies and the answer is no.
Why shoule they be smart/wise enough to know right from wrong but not to vote for people who do know.

GORGEOUS reply. I didn't even think of it that way, but you are absolutely correct. I'm all for punishing these rodents of society. A lot of these teenagers now exactly what they are doing. They know the consequences also. But if we are to punish them, supposing they are intelligent enough to know right from wrong, as you said, we must also give them all the other rights that come with being an "adult".

Again, good post.

[Dreamofunity]

If someone boiled my pet lobster I'd be just as pissed as if they baked my cat. It being property and a pet makes the difference.

[clb09]

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/gretna_man_arrested_in_rape_an.html


A 17-year-old Terrytown man was arrested on charges of aggravated rape and first-degree murder of an 8-month-old child Saturday afternoon, the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office said.

http://blog.nola.com/news_impact/2009/06/small_07arnold.JPGhttp://s.bebo.com/app-image/7924709420/5411656627/PROFILE/i.quizzaz.com/img/q/u/08/04/04/98426410-blk_bby_grl.jpg

[LibertyEagle]

She owes her ex-roommate a new kitten. Let her work and save up money to purchase one. That should be her penalty, as sick as it was for her to roast a kitten.
Save up, Theo? :confused: Unless the kitten was a pure bred, you can get kittens for free. This is no penalty.


Better yet, her penalty should be mandatory PETA sessions and examinations for a month. That'll straighten her out.
Maybe. But, it may be the best that we should do.

[boberino]

Crabs get their legs pulled off before they're boiled alive too.

This is merely destruction of property. People get too worked up because they project human qualities on these animals. And then it's only the cute ones that matter.

[muh_roads]

Invoking the lobster proves people here seem to be missing the point. Doing this to someones kitten is destruction of someone elses property. The girl should be punished in some way.

I suppose I'm taking this down the path of, if you own the pet, you can do what you want to it but I'm not sure I want to advocate for that.

All I know is this girl killed someone elses beloved personal possession. It's a crime.


EDIT: I guess boberino already answered.

[Bruno]

They shouldn't be tried as adults because they are not adults. But the system fails when it lets minors out and expunges the record when they turn 18.

A child of 12 who murders a parent shouldn't be tried as an adult, but also shouldn't be let out of juvie when hi hits his 18th birthday.

[Kludge]

Invoking the lobster proves people here seem to be missing the point. Doing this to someones kitten is destruction of someone elses property. The girl should be punished in some way.

I suppose I'm taking this down the path of, if you own the pet, you can do what you want to it but I'm not sure I want to advocate for that.

All I know is this girl killed someone elses beloved personal possession. It's a crime.


EDIT: I guess boberino already answered.

How much is a cat worth?

There are quite a few wandering outside. I can give you one that's laying about on the deck -- free to, eh.... anywhere but here.... How much do you think it'd cost to ship a cat?

Maybe we should charge based on psychological damage. Some say we should give murderers a life in prison, but I don't believe it gives proper emotional damage. After all, we aren't trying to correct a problem -- we're trying to avenge. Yes, instead, we ought to do something more fitting, with psychological effects. Water boarding or caustic acid ought to do it.

Edit: And I see you are also calling them by the derogatory title of "lobster". Please call them sea kittens.... Fish can be, uh.... Dogs, I suppose.