Should We Give Up on the Libertarian Party?

[DeadheadForPaul]

I've read a few blogs about strictly focusing on the GOP and abandoning the LP. Peter Schiff seems to approve of just this thing in his speech to the Conn LP

Should we do it following Dr. Paul's path?
http://revivetherepublic.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/the-future-of-libertarianism/

[emazur]

The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it.
-Dune, spoken by the character "Paul-Muad'Dib Atreides"

The old right Republicans will not always be selected to run for office. In districts where a Jeff Cherry type idiot gets the go-ahead to run, the Libertarian Party should be there to run someone against him and siphon away votes (and use the campaign as an educational opportunity to inform voters on issues of liberty). If this happens in enough districts enough times, the GOP will be forced to return to the values they now pretend to believe in - economic freedom and limited government. So don't give up on the LP, learn to make use of it

[Kotin]

The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it.
-Dune, spoken by the character "Paul-Muad'Dib Atreides"

The old right Republicans will not always be selected to run for office. In districts where a Jeff Cherry type idiot gets the go-ahead to run, the Libertarian Party should be there to run someone against him and siphon away votes (and use the campaign as an educational opportunity to inform voters on issues of liberty). If this happens in enough districts enough times, the GOP will be forced to return to the values they now pretend to believe in - economic freedom and limited government. So don't give up on the LP, learn to make use of it

that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.


this is what they may have wanted to happen when they formed the party 30 years ago... but guess what? IT FAILED!!!!!!

the LP is completely irrelevant.

[Andrew-Austin]

The LP hasn't done anything to constitute giving up on, the RP however...

But you guys feel free to work alongside the Dick Cheneys and Rush Limbaughs in rebuilding the party.

[Kotin]

The LP hasn't done anything

fixed.

[krazy kaju]

No.

We should use a two-pronged approach, using both the LP and the Republican Party. Become a member of both, if you can. Run as a Republican, but when/if a non-libertarian gets chosen as the Republican nominee, use the LP to "steal" Republican votes. Thus, if the Republicans lose BECAUSE of "stolen" votes, they will learn the hard way that the citizens in that district want more radical, libertarian solutions, not reactionary statist ones. This forces the Republicans to become more like the LP.

[Andrew-Austin]

fixed.

The only way to gain power in Washington, is to court power. That is the only reason the two parties win.

If you somehow transformed the GOP in to the LP, but kept the Republican label, the media would ignore you just the same. You get a Libertarian running for an important position, the media will treat them as Ron Paul was treated in the Presidential run.

If Libertarians must keep an educational focus, instead of the do-anything-to-win strategy of the two parties, then so be it, all our energy won't be devoted to politics in vain.

We should at least agree to work within both parties, as well as outside of official politics altogether.

[FSP-Rebel]

Yep, I gave up on the LP before the RP campaign even started and I stopped attending events even prior to that. I'm not content with continually trying to help my local county party lower a sales tax by 1% (as an example), instead I moved to NH as part of the 2nd thing you see in my sig.

[heavenlyboy34]

I like how the LP does educational outreach, but they have a hard time finding small l libertarian candidates who are slick with the media. :( Maybe I'll run as a protest candidate when I'm older and wiser.

[nobody's_hero]

Maybe in the short term. Getting more than Crap Party and Crappier Party on the ballot, especially in a 'free' country, ought to remain a long term goal, though.

[emazur]

I guess some people here have the attitude that if a neocon gets the nod to run, he should do so w/o opposition from the LP.
At the very least, the LP needs to stick around as a plan B. After 2 straight shellackings in '06 and '08, we finally heard the GOP start saying things about needing to reform the party. There are two camps there - those who advocate moving further to the left, and those looking who seek a return to the old right. The Bobby Jindals and Lindsay Grahams that they've been parading around so far aren't a good sign of things to come. If they mirror the Democrats, people will simply vote for the actual Democrat candidate and the GOP will be made irrelevant. The GOP has to come up with a winning platform - that's why we've been hearing things by people like Celente, Gingrich, and others forecasting about 3rd parties possibly becoming relevant by 2012:
http://www.infowars.com/?p=5938
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=3552
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/20809.html
If Celente's predictions about tax riots are realized, who do you think people will turn to? It won't be the 'crats or the 'licans, it'll be the ultra anti-tax Libertarian Party. Or on the other extreme, a new American Bolshevik party promising to use taxes to empower the people). You'll be kicking yourselves if by 2012 the GOP label is tarnished beyond repair, the Libertarian Party is disbanded by efforts to infiltrate the failed GOP, and the only choices voters have are the same old fascists or the new socialists who have come into the game. If you don't like the LP, so be it, but they need to be around at least contingency's sake. Besides, people can still be in the LP in the meantime but help in the movement to get Ron Paul Republicans elected.

[DeadheadForPaul]

I've just been frustrated with the LP for a long time and finally gave up on it. I want it to stay around as a last resort, but I think the GOP provides a more realistic means of changing everything

[FSP-Rebel]

If nothing else, they should be put on ice for awhile for that Barr campaign.

[He Who Pawns]

I'm a member of the LP, but it's a total failure. We should ditch it.

[yaz]

I vote for both and participate in both organizations. I think it's better to run as a major party candidate though.

[kahless]

Tough call. The Dems, the media and the neo-cons have been successful in destroying the Republican brand possibly irreperably. However the system is stacked against an emerging third party combined with the mentallity of the masses only to vote for the lesser of two evils.

It would take a ridiculous amount of money to keep the LP consistently in the media in every market which is unlikely since the financial backing is just not there to do so. Sad as that is.

[Minarchy4Sale]

I gave up on the LP back in the early 90s...

[Peace&Freedom]

The Republican party has failed for 80 years. Failing legislatively for decades is worse than failing electorally. I say we build on the already existing infrastructure for liberty that we have, rather than abandon it. Transform both the GOP and the LP, use them together in a pincer movement to restore the republic.

[Imperial]

The Libertarian Party has to become strong enough to be a threat to the Republicans. However, this is less important than controlling the Republican Party from within.

[Todd]

I've read a few blogs about strictly focusing on the GOP and abandoning the LP. Peter Schiff seems to approve of just this thing in his speech to the Conn LP

Should we do it following Dr. Paul's path?
http://revivetherepublic.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/the-future-of-libertarianism/

You shouldn't "give up"...but there was a time long ago on these forums when the strategy was to bring the Republican party back to Goldwater libertarian roots, rather than the Neocon big gov shrills we currently have, so this makes sense

[dr. hfn]

Dr. Paul shoul have dropped out of the race much earlier and helped Bob Barr. I know he is a former neo-con and not pure, but we can't live in a fantasy world. If the momentum of Ron Paul R3volution had been transferred to Barr then he would have been polling 5% of the vote and gotten into the debates. The bickering and in-fighting in between us in unacceptable. We will never be successful if we fight ourselves. We must unite or perish. Our goal should be to get Liberty candidates elected and then abolish the unfair election/ballot laws and also to try and take over the GOP.

[gls]

Dr. Paul shoul have dropped out of the race much earlier and helped Bob Barr. I know he is a former neo-con and not pure, but we can't live in a fantasy world. If the momentum of Ron Paul R3volution had been transferred to Barr then he would have been polling 5% of the vote and gotten into the debates. The bickering and in-fighting in between us in unacceptable. We will never be successful if we fight ourselves. We must unite or perish. Our goal should be to get Liberty candidates elected and then abolish the unfair election/ballot laws and also to try and take over the GOP.

I believe the threshold to get into the debates is 15% in 5 national polls. What do you expect when the "commission" that puts them on is run by the former heads of the RNC and DNC. They learned their lesson with Ross Perot.

I don't agree about Bob Barr. I just don't think that he takes very consistent libertarian positions. No one is going to go to the extraordinary lengths necessary to elect a non-establishment sponsored candidate if he or she can't be trusted to uphold the Constitution.

[Derek Johnson]

I'm a member of the LP, but it's a total failure. We should ditch it.

I'm a LP member, and Libertarian state rep candidate in Texas district 57. The real failure is the 2 party system. The real failure is McCain Feingold. The real failure is Bush, Obama etc.

I can win the position, but the solution is hard work. Has amy LP candidate ever called you on the phone or knocked on your door asking for your vote?

We are the total failure for allowing this TWO party system to debase our currency and install Marxism.

Go ahead though, reform the Republican party, explain to Steele and Limbaugh the error of their ways. Do it. Btw, listen to Hannity tomorrow, I'll be doing a little reforming of my own.

[DeadheadForPaul]

I'm a LP member, and Libertarian state rep candidate in Texas district 57. The real failure is the 2 party system. The real failure is McCain Feingold. The real failure is Bush, Obama etc.

I can win the position, but the solution is hard work. Has amy LP candidate ever called you on the phone or knocked on your door asking for your vote?

We are the total failure for allowing this TWO party system to debase our currency and install Marxism.

Go ahead though, reform the Republican party, explain to Steele and Limbaugh the error of their ways. Do it. Btw, listen to Hannity tomorrow, I'll be doing a little reforming of my own.

I wish you luck. I still support the LP but think it's more important to utilize the GOP.

Are you calling into Hannity? Are you a guest?

[Derek Johnson]

I wish you luck. I still support the LP but think it's more important to utilize the GOP.

Are you calling into Hannity? Are you a guest?

Lynda is arranging for me to be a caller, if you call into his show a lot, you will find out that she likes to arrange calls like that...which is fine, please listen if you can.

[Chieftain1776]

I hope the LP stays on the ballot as a symbolic vote but political activism should be within the GOP imo. I mean the GOP isn't even conservative...even if you consider the following postions as "conservative":

Most conservatives want secure borders..GOP fails
Most want spending CUTS...GOP can't even stop increases
Most want federalism GOP ushers in NCLB and Medicare Prescription

Rhetorically on domestic issues many of us "won the battle" but the GOP doesn't follow through. I think that's a problem with political action in general. As I've said elsewhere I think politics is pretty useless overall. Its only merit to me is to "get the message out" and Dr. Paul's campaign in the GOP primary did that more than many other avenues. It's even better and/or complementary to those institutions that are "educational" like the Mises Institute, LRC, etc.

[Derek Johnson]

It happened...

I gave Hannity a good ol dose of Jefferson/Washington foreign policy...he spazzed, as he always does. I'll upload the the call and his lengthy diatribe shortly...

[RevolutionSD]

We should give up on solving our problems through political parties and politics. It's a dead end.

[Derek Johnson]

We should give up on solving our problems through political parties and politics. It's a dead end.

Solutions please...

[South Park Fan]

Solutions please...

Jury nullification, civil disobedience, education, secession, activism, etc.

[Derek Johnson]

Jury nullification, civil disobedience, education, secession, activism, etc.

And these have a history of being effectively achieved in the US via non-political means? Cite examples.

Have you even ran for a political office?

[South Park Fan]

And these have a history of being effectively achieved in the US via non-political means? Cite examples.

Have you even ran for a political office?

No, because I am ineligible. But, to the contrary, I would ask if liberty had been effectively achieved in the US by political mean, which of course it hasn't. I stopped having faith of electoral politics when I kept on seeing liberty candidates lose election after election. Even in Nevada where we won delegates, the GOP shut down the convention rather than send RP delegates to the national convention. Were not going to beat the statists if we play by their rules.

[Derek Johnson]

No, because I am ineligible. But, to the contrary, I would ask if liberty had been effectively achieved in the US by political mean, which of course it hasn't. I stopped having faith of electoral politics when I kept on seeing liberty candidates lose election after election. Even in Nevada where we won delegates, the GOP shut down the convention rather than send RP delegates to the national convention. Were not going to beat the statists if we play by their rules.

I would ask if liberty had been effectively achieved in the US by political means?

Are you aware of what happened to the Whigs [and formerly the Federalists] and why during the antibellum period? Why did they crash? What was the thing with the high tarrifs, national bank, and internal improvements all about....and what were the political ramifications? Why did the 2nd bank loose its charter? Why did we have a near freemarket condition from 1846-1860? Why did prohibition get repealed?

I could site hundreds of examples of exactly how POLITICAL actions [start with Wood's 'Politically Incorrect Guide to American History']of the mid 19th century POLITICAL AND MARKET events that enabled the US free market to become the wealthiest nation on this planet, please step off the ledge and read 'How Capitalism Saved America' by DiLorenzo....it was the exposure of the Whigs statism that fueled the free market competition that put us in pole position for over one CENTURY, but don't believe me, find this out for yourself.

[South Park Fan]

I would ask if liberty had been effectively achieved in the US by political means?

Are you aware of what happened to the Whigs [and formerly the Federalists] and why during the antibellum period? Why did they crash? What was the thing with the high tarrifs, national bank, and internal improvements all about....and what were the political ramifications? Why did the 2nd bank loose its charter? Why did we have a near freemarket condition from 1846-1860? Why did prohibition get repealed?

I could site hundreds of examples of exactly how POLITICAL actions [start with Wood's 'Politically Incorrect Guide to American History']of the mid 19th century POLITICAL AND MARKET events that enabled the US free market to become the wealthiest nation on this planet, please step off the ledge and read 'How Capitalism Saved America' by DiLorenzo....it was the exposure of the Whigs statism that fueled the free market competition that put us in pole position for over one CENTURY, but don't believe me, find this out for yourself.

Obviously the Whigs succeeded in the long run, though, or we wouldn't be living under the Leviathan we live under today.

[Derek Johnson]

Obviously the Whigs succeeded in the long run, though, or we wouldn't be living under the Leviathan we live under today.

You're correct, the Federalists and Whigs [now both parties are essentially Whig-Federalists] eventually won in the long run. We live under Hamilton's constitution, not Jefferson's.

Hamilton's John Marshall did big damage to self-governance [Marbury v. Madison, McCullugh v. Maryland], then Henry Clay fed this garbage to his pet...dishonest Abe...speaking of Lincoln [one nation, under God, INDIVISIBLE...], and later the progressives and their pet project...the 17th amendment evaporated states rights altogether, Wilson and his world government/ elastic paper money world bank, FDR, LBJ and all presidents since LBJ...make the idea of self-governance a reality only in concept and fantasy.

Awareness is our way out.

[idiom]

The LP should forget about the Presidency for a while. They should be aiming at state legislatures... congress... mayors... governors.

If they did it within the GOP thye wouldn't have to worry about ballot access or name recognition. The problem is the hardest working most dedicated Republicans left the GOP and formed the LP. All they achieved was a weakening of the libertarian voice.

[cheapseats]

Who doesn't like Liberty? Other than those who would snatch yours from you, but even THEY love it for themselves. Liberty is a real crowd pleaser, a shoe-in.

Not so, Libertarians. There isn't quite so much agreement about them nor, it bears mention, quite so much agreement AMONG them.

Have we already run Liberty up the flagpole? Liberty Party, rather than Libertarian Party.

It might be emotionally convenient to the mish-mash of people that we DO need to assemble if they could take the empowering TAKE THAT! leap without having to run the -ism and -arian gauntlets.

[Derek Johnson]

The LP should forget about the Presidency for a while. They should be aiming at state legislatures... congress... mayors... governors.

If they did it within the GOP thye wouldn't have to worry about ballot access or name recognition. The problem is the hardest working most dedicated Republicans left the GOP and formed the LP. All they achieved was a weakening of the libertarian voice.

The LP message should be simple and deliberate...

what made Reagan great was his libertarian views...
what made Goldwater great was his libertarian views...
what made Cleveland great was his libertarian views...
what made Jackson great was his libertarian views...
what made Jefferson great was his libertarian views...

etc

[Number19]

The LP should stick around, pounding out the libertarian message of freedom, which won't be well received by the news media or the voters. But this libertarian message will be absorbed by libertarian leaning Republicans and their translation will reach and influence independents and some of the moderate conservatives.

Have you noticed how often the word "libertarian" has become a part of the political dialog. This wasn't the case 10 years ago, and represents progress in getting the message heard and accepted.

[dr. hfn]

I read an article recently saying how libertarian the new generation is. I would say that is an overstatement. I think the LP should stay around. The LP and CP did better this last election than they did in two decades. I just wish we had some Libertarian billionaire to fund a renaissance in American politics...