AMAZING - Peter Schiff disses LP at LP convention

[Jeremy]

We (da peeps in RPF chat) are watching Peter Schiff at the LP of CT Convention and he's basically telling everyone to leave the party and stop wasting time in minor parties. He's telling them to join the Republican Party. People in the crowd are arguing with him. XD

Also, the way he is speaking sounds like he has been thinking about the senate race a lot.

[MRoCkEd]

Peter Schiff gives the Libertarian Party some tough medicine
"We Need to Influence the GOP!" (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=19171)
YouTube - Peter Schiff gives the Libertarian Party some tough medicine "We Need to Influence the GOP!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ncLTFoTFa8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ronpaulforums.com%2Fshowthre ad.php%3Ft%3D194271&feature=player_embedded)

[He Who Pawns]

Schiff is laying the fucking SMACK DOWN on the LP, right in their own den. This speech will go down in legend.

[torchbearer]

Schiff is being honest. I've been disowned by a lot of the LPers here because I told them the same thing.
If the LPers came into the GOP, we could completely take it over.

[torchbearer]

I'm the former Vice-Chair of the LALP and I admit the Ron has proven Schiff is right.

[torchbearer]

Schiff needs to debate Dodd. Total Pawnage in the making.
Schiff is sharp.

[He Who Pawns]

Dodd will be decimated by Schiff.

[raystone]

Even the founder of the Libertarian Party was dissin is own party recently...

YouTube - David Nolan, Founder Libertarian Party, speaks to the Motorhome Diaries (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j1gufhcT-0)

[Hamer]

It is because Peter is 100% correct. The 2 major parties control everything and the only way to win is to run Republican or Democrat.


www.retakecongress.com

[MRoCkEd]

paraphrasing:
"You guys can't win shit as a third party. Infiltrate the GOP!"

Please lead by example Peter!!!!! :)

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I thought him speaking at an LP event might look bad if he ran as a Republican, but if he's giving them a dose of reality then it sounds good.

[Jeremy]

Even the founder of the Libertarian Party was dissin is own party recently...

YouTube - David Nolan, Founder Libertarian Party, speaks to the Motorhome Diaries (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j1gufhcT-0)

Yah, but Schiff was dissing it based on the fact that it's a minor party. Not because of the people in it.

[Dreamofunity]

I thought him speaking at an LP event might look bad if he ran as a Republican, but if he's giving them a dose of reality then it sounds good.

He said some stuff that could be used against him in a Republican primary. He talked about being completely libertarian and simply infiltrating the Republicans. Neo-cons will say he's not really a republican which could be used against him.

[torchbearer]

He said some stuff that could be used against him in a Republican primary. He talked about being completely libertarian and simply infiltrating the Republicans. Neo-cons will say he's not really a republican which could be used against him.

Neocons inflitrated first.

[Dreamofunity]

Neocons inflitrated first.

Ha, I agree. I also agree with Peter's assessment and thank god he's not a 'real' republican, I just think what he said could be used to make a good attack ad for the typical mainstream neocon republican.

[MRoCkEd]

Peter is not afraid to tell the truth whether or not people want to hear it. He's got huge balls to rag on the LP at their own convention. And I think his assessment is correct.

[Brassmouth]

If the LPers came into the GOP, we could completely take it over.

Keep dreaming, man.

[reagle]

Sounds like a great idea.

[heavenlyboy34]

Keep dreaming, man.

+a bunch.

[MRoCkEd]

Peter gave this crowd some tough medicine. It's up to them whether they want to swallow it.
It seems many did, considering the applause at the end.

[He Who Pawns]

In the annals of history, this speech by Schiff will become Legend.

LP chapters across the country will be rocked by this.

[iddo]

I watched the webcast and the last part of the speech (about infiltrating the Republican primaries) was great. One of his main points was that it should be easier to do as the economy gets worse. The q&a was interesting too.
We need a youtube of this to help convince libertarians to run in Republican primaries.

[Dreamofunity]

Peter sounded like he was going to run, he kept saying how someone needs to do it.

[torchbearer]

Keep dreaming, man.

It won't happen with people like you and HB and TW around. You are good for absolutely nothing. You are the peak of WORTHLESS>

[zach]

tube?

[ClayTrainor]

it won't happen with people like you and hb and tw around. You are good for absolutely nothing. You are the peak of worthless>

qft!

[powerofreason]

Shit i missed this. Utube plz!

[He Who Pawns]

Peter sounded like he was going to run, he kept saying how someone needs to do it.

I think the chances of his running are 99% now. He sounded like someone getting ready to run. And this speech to the LP was clearly aimed at getting the local LP behind him, even if was tough to swallow. Even after totally dissing the LP, they still cheered him. Amazing, amazing!

[ClayTrainor]

I think the chances of his running are 99% now. He sounded like someone getting ready to run. And this speech to the LP was clearly aimed at getting the local LP behind him, even if was tough to swallow. Even after totally dissing the LP, they still cheered him. Amazing, amazing!

yea, that was a very impressive speech.

Peter has got to run!

I'd like to see peter address the "please dont run" Lew rockwell fans too.

[tsopranos]

The R's and D's are pieces of shit, stained brands IMHO.

Ron Paul ran as a Republican, but always spoke up against the tremendous hurdles 3rd parties face when asked why he doesn't run as a libertarian again. He uses the opportunity to call out our own lack of choice in this country. Shouldn't we have the same attitude here?

The LP has been ineffective because they've been a debate society in the past, and because like every other 3rd party in this country, they have to tire themselves out financially and emotionally before they even gain an equal footing with the turd and shit sandwiches.

I say Gary Johnson/Ventura 2012 as Independents. People are yearning for a strong 3rd party...but without an organized party in place, I say the name recognition of Ventura + someone with the voting record of Johnson can breakthrough as independents and separate themselves from the politically charged hollowness of the shit & turd sandwiches.

Schiff railing on the LP for being a minority party serves no purpose.

[paulitics]

We (da peeps in RPF chat) are watching Peter Schiff at the LP of CT Convention and he's basically telling everyone to leave the party and stop wasting time in minor parties. He's telling them to join the Republican Party. People in the crowd are arguing with him. XD

Also, the way he is speaking sounds like he has been thinking about the senate race a lot.

As much as I hate the Republican party, Schiff is right. The libertarian party is nothing more than the old republican party. The republican party was hijacked, by the neocons and religious right. They need to go back to the democrat party where their core beliefs of big government are consistant with their platform.
When that albatross finally leaves the party, the average joe democrat who isn't a socialist will come over.

[iddo]

FYI for anyone who can't wait for the youtube: Peter was asked politely if he'd run after everything he said about infiltrating the Republicans, and he just gave a quick reply "If I run you'll know about it". :)

[torchbearer]

What you stated is correct. But what Schiff stated is also correct.
People wouldn't even know who Ron is if he ran as just the LP candidate in 2008.
We wouldn't be taking over local gop committee's either.
With a few more people this is our vehicle to drive.
80% of americans can tell you more about this year's american idol than they can tell you about our government, much less the LP.
That is why the GOP is important- it already is known to the mindless.
And it is just a political vehicle filled with mindless partisans ready to push anything with an R behind its name whether they are pushing fascism or liberty.

We must fight for control of that ship.



The R's and D's are pieces of shit, stained brands IMHO.

Ron Paul ran as a Republican, but always spoke up against the tremendous hurdles 3rd parties face when asked why he doesn't run as a libertarian again. He uses the opportunity to call out our own lack of choice in this country. Shouldn't we have the same attitude here?

The LP has been ineffective because they've been a debate society in the past, and because like every other 3rd party in this country, they have to tire themselves out financially and emotionally before they even gain an equal footing with the turd and shit sandwiches.

I say Gary Johnson/Ventura 2012 as Independents. People are yearning for a strong 3rd party...but without an organized party in place, I say the name recognition of Ventura + someone with the voting record of Johnson can breakthrough as independents and separate themselves from the politically charged hollowness of the shit & turd sandwiches.

Schiff railing on the LP for being a minority party serves no purpose.

[Hamer]

It won't happen with people like you and HB and TW around. You are good for absolutely nothing. You are the peak of WORTHLESS>


+1

[RCA]

Even the founder of the Libertarian Party was dissin is own party recently...

YouTube - David Nolan, Founder Libertarian Party, speaks to the Motorhome Diaries (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j1gufhcT-0)

awesome video, thanks!

[Kludge]

In the annals of history, this speech by Schiff will become Legend.

LP chapters across the country will be rocked by this.

Lol, it's not as though it's the first time the LP has been called ineffective.

[He Who Pawns]

Lol, it's not as though it's the first time the LP has been called ineffective.

Lol but was it the first time they cheered the person telling them? :D

[tsopranos]

That is why the GOP is important- it already is known to the mindless. And it is just a political vehicle filled with mindless partisans ready to push anything with an R behind its name whether they are pushing fascism or liberty.

We must fight for control of that ship.

So you're saying Hucklebee, Romnoid, and McInsane would vote for a liberty minded candidate if they simply had an R behind their name?

There's a reason Lindsey Graham stated TWICE, that Ron Paul is not the leader of the Republican Party. Even if you could throw the fuckers off the boat (neocons & christian wingnutters), what are you left with but holding a turd sandwich?

[jmlfod87]

So you're saying Hucklebee, Romnoid, and McInsane would vote for a liberty minded candidate if they simply had an R behind their name?



Yes. They are partisan hacks. They would support any republican presidential candidate so long as it would further their political career.

I can't believe I missed this, hopefully someone is working on a tube.

[Dreamofunity]

While I hate both the Republicans and Democrats, the Libertarian Party has no chance to win a major election (possibly could get a congress seat, most likely not) within the next 15 years. We don't have that time. If people want to attempt to get libertarian ideas in government they have to go through one of the two major parties unless something drastically happens to change our two party system.

Now, what I think the real debate is and should be is do politics even matter? Can we change the system from within the system? Is it not already too far along to fix?

The question and debate, especially when ending in arguements of like minds, shouldn't be "should we use this party or that party, this way or that way" when they're both striving for the same thing - political power. I think it's legitimate arguing whether or not it's worth that attempt, but both going for the attempt shouldn't be arguing about how to do it, especially when the LP has no chance, already sold out most it's principles, and is almost a self contradiction to begin with, which seems to go against any of the arguements of staying in the LP. They already sold out to get votes, they may as well infiltrate while keeping their principles.

[No1ButPaul08]

Apparantely Wayne Allen Root and Peter didn't go over WAR's 16 year (15 now) master plan for Libertarian Party dominence when they were both guests on Freedom Watch.

[iddo]

Not sure what's this 16 year plan is, but Peter's point was that a major economic crisis is coming in a year or two, so a 16 year plan is irrelevant.

[He Who Pawns]

Root is a f-cking joke. Root is actually lucky that the Judge stopped his little debate with Schiff before Root got the worst of it.

[No1ButPaul08]

Not sure what's this 16 year plan is, but Peter's point was that a major economic crisis is coming in a year or two, so a 16 year plan is irrelevant.


Root is a f-cking joke. Root is actually lucky that the Judge stopped his little debate with Schiff before Root got the worst of it.

Haha it was joke mocking Root's plan. Back in the LP convention Root was trying to convince the LP they should nominate him because he had a 16 year plan to lead them to majorities at the local, state, and national level. It was comical.

I agree that Root is a clown. I wouldn't mind however, seeing him as mayor of Las Vegas, something that I think has been thrown around.

[slacker921]

So you're saying Hucklebee, Romnoid, and McInsane would vote for a liberty minded candidate if they simply had an R behind their name?

There's a reason Lindsey Graham stated TWICE, that Ron Paul is not the leader of the Republican Party. Even if you could throw the fuckers off the boat (neocons & christian wingnutters), what are you left with but holding a turd sandwich?

The Republican voters voted for McCain simply because he had an R beside his name.... I know loads who will admit to that. They didn't like him and didn't like Palin but they voted "R". Lindsey Graham is a perfect example of someone that the GOP will get behind and support even though he does the complete opposite of what they supposedly stand for. I know Republican voters in SC who voted for him.. . then sent me angry e-mails about Obama's GIVE act. Imagine their surprise when I showed them that Graham voted for it. oops.

... Schiff needs to also consider that we may soon be to the point that associating with one of the two parties will end up being the downfall of a politician. They got us in this mess.... they turned control over to the folks who helped bankrupt us.. they'll go down with the ship. The Great Depression didn't just bring economic turmoil, it also wrecked the alignment and structure of political parties.. The 2010 election will be interesting.

Also don't assume that the media will remain loyal to the two parties. The media will determine if a party or candidate is viable. All it would take is one network breaking off and going against the two parties.... but where would they find shows that could do it (http://freedomwatchonfox.com)?

[Peace&Freedom]

The LP has been ineffective because they've been a debate society in the past, and because like every other 3rd party in this country, they have to tire themselves out financially and emotionally before they even gain an equal footing with the turd and shit sandwiches.

I say Gary Johnson/Ventura 2012 as Independents. People are yearning for a strong 3rd party...but without an organized party in place, I say the name recognition of Ventura + someone with the voting record of Johnson can breakthrough as independents and separate themselves from the politically charged hollowness of the shit & turd sandwiches.

Schiff railing on the LP for being a minority party serves no purpose.

Excellent points, however potty mouthed. As both a former state LP chair and a RP meetup organizer, I say we need both a principled liberty party (or two, if you count both the LP and CP) to vet the the principled candidates, and an infiltration of both major parties. If we try only one route to taking back the republic the elite controllers of the current establishment will shut us down or marginalize us, as they have done before. But pressure applied by the Revolution both within and without that establishment can finally crack the corrupt egg.

The whole reason the Schiff candidacy is so exciting is, here is a Paulite who like the congressman, has substantial assets and stature, is a real libertarian, and is prepared to run a principled liberty candidacy for a major party nomination. So you need both halfs of the bargain, an LP to certify the liberty positions or people, and the will to then field those people to take over the entire establishment to realize the revolution. The entire order needs to be displaced and overrun by the liberty movement, with parties like the LP serving a new purpose of validating the genuine freedom candidates.

A transform the US from within-theGOP movement alone is a waiting-for-Godot gesture that has failed for decades. Every time somebody asks "what has the LP won in the last 40 years?" the comeback should be "exactly what part of the Total State has the Republican Party actually rolled back in the last 80 years?" Merely trading a track record of electoral defeat for an even longer track record of legislative defeat is simply arguing over what kind of loser you want to be. Let's instead encourage Schiff style campaigns that take our principles to the main stage of politics, while maintaining the principled party infrastructure that works to identify the real deals.

[Dreamofunity]

Why do we need the LP to certify the liberty positions and people? Some of their current platform veers from liberty and they elect people like Bob Barr. The LP is useless. It stood some merit in the past because it was a place to stand on principle and educate, now it's nothing but a watered down GOP with even less chance than a neocon to win anything.

I'm all for libertarian ideals and liberty, and I'm not even convinced politics is the way to go to achieve those, but I am convinced if you wanted to achieve them through politics the LP is not the way to go.

[He Who Pawns]

Lol Mayor of Vegas would be perfect for Root! He has that whole cheesy infomercial salesman thing going for him.

[gls]

I just got back from it. I wouldn't say he 'dissed' the LP. In fact he said "it is the only party that makes any sense." I'm sure many of the people there were big "L" Libertarians, but both people who were sitting on either end of me (as well as myself) were registered Republicans trying to bring libertarianism to the GOP.

[Imperial]

Excellent points, however potty mouthed. As both a former state LP chair and a RP meetup organizer, I say we need both a principled liberty party (or two, if you count both the LP and CP) to vet the the principled candidates, and an infiltration of both major parties. If we try only one route to taking back the republic the elite controllers of the current establishment will shut us down or marginalize us, as they have done before. But pressure applied by the Revolution both within and without that establishment can finally crack the corrupt egg.

The whole reason the Schiff candidacy is so exciting is, here is a Paulite who like the congressman, has substantial assets and stature, is a real libertarian, and is prepared to run a principled liberty candidacy for a major party nomination. So you need both halfs of the bargain, an LP to certify the liberty positions or people, and the will to then field those people to take over the entire establishment to realize the revolution. The entire order needs to be displaced and overrun by the liberty movement, with parties like the LP serving a new purpose of validating the genuine freedom candidates.

A transform the US from within-theGOP movement alone is a waiting-for-Godot gesture that has failed for decades. Every time somebody asks "what has the LP won in the last 40 years?" the comeback should be "exactly what part of the Total State has the Republican Party actually rolled back in the last 80 years?" Merely trading a track record of electoral defeat for an even longer track record of legislative defeat is simply arguing over what kind of loser you want to be. Let's instead encourage Schiff style campaigns that take our principles to the main stage of politics, while maintaining the principled party infrastructure that works to identify the real deals.

This. Although I think the Constitution and Libertarian Parties need to unite and realize we have caucuses for a reason. Could be a Constitutional Liberty Party(CLP) A liberty party can act as the moral compass, or at least put a big picture to the political establishment.


Why do we need the LP to certify the liberty positions and people? Some of their current platform veers from liberty and they elect people like Bob Barr. The LP is useless. It stood some merit in the past because it was a place to stand on principle and educate, now it's nothing but a watered down GOP with even less chance than a neocon to win anything.

B/c on the same accord the Republican party will do the same. The LP will always have a radical caucus that can check the reform caucus and have a sizable minority, while the GOP is more vulnerable to falling prey to electability to a greater degree than the LP.

[Rangeley]

So you need both halfs of the bargain, an LP to certify the liberty positions or people, and the will to then field those people to take over the entire establishment to realize the revolution.
We don't need a party to tell us who to vote for, or to tell us what liberty is.


B/c on the same accord the Republican party will do the same.
You are right - we shouldn't use the Republican party for this purpose, either.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I have to agree...the neo cons who are really hawkish socialist "progressives" infiltrated and took over the GOP. tones

[Dreamofunity]

B/c on the same accord the Republican party will do the same. The LP will always have a radical caucus that can check the reform caucus and have a sizable minority, while the GOP is more vulnerable to falling prey to electability to a greater degree than the LP.

But if they're going to be the same thing with the same problems you might as well join the one that has a chance. That was Schiffs argument.

If the LP still stood on principle and education I could see a point in staying in it, but if it's going to sell out for votes like it did recently you might as well try to run as a republican with an actual chance to win.

[jmlfod87]

tube it!

[PeacePlan]

Tube - or it did not happen!

[Dreamofunity]

It was live streamed, better than tube.

[He Who Pawns]

I just got back from it. I wouldn't say he 'dissed' the LP. In fact he said "it is the only party that makes any sense." I'm sure many of the people there were big "L" Libertarians, but both people who were sitting on either end of me (as well as myself) were registered Republicans trying to bring libertarianism to the GOP.

Interesting. Any other little tidbits or impressions to report?

[gls]

...

[torchbearer]

So you're saying Hucklebee, Romnoid, and McInsane would vote for a liberty minded candidate if they simply had an R behind their name?

There's a reason Lindsey Graham stated TWICE, that Ron Paul is not the leader of the Republican Party. Even if you could throw the fuckers off the boat (neocons & christian wingnutters), what are you left with but holding a turd sandwich?

when the central committee is filled with ron paul republicans, you can eat a shit sandwich, because it will be done without your effort.

[SouthGeorgia61]

Schiff is 100% right and is awesome for having the guts to say that at a LP event.

The only way a 3rd party can make any noise is if a celebrity like Jesse Ventura runs as one. That is the only scenario.

[No1ButPaul08]

Schiff is 100% right and is awesome for having the guts to say that at a LP event.

The only way a 3rd party can make any noise is if a celebrity like Jesse Ventura runs as one. That is the only scenario.

That or a billionaire with about $500 million to spare

[rockandrollsouls]

I tend to disagree, but maybe the disowned republicans will rejoin the republican party and we true libertarians can have the party back.

[gls]

I tend to disagree, but maybe the disowned republicans will rejoin the republican party and we true libertarians can have the party back.

It's not about a party. It's about turning this country around by restoring its founding principles. This necessitates getting people who care about liberty into elected office. Obviously many in the LP have tried in its nearly 40 years of existence and the results speak for themselves. Ballot access, media coverage, and invitations to debates -- these are all huge obstacles to overcome that major party candidates don't face.

If you just want it function as an educational outreach party, fine. But I think things have gotten to the point where we have no option but to play within their framework if we actually want to save this country from complete disaster.

[Conza88]

He's right in regard to the party becoming a bullshit representative of nothing, and clowns who idiotically suffered the failure of "right wing" OPPORTUNISM.

Rothbard addressed this at length.

There is a role for a pure Libertarian party. What the LP should have become - the retards ruined it.

Those who compromise on principles (war, drugs) all the "classical liberals" who want to make it a low tax party and fucken scum and need to be purged.

THEY belong in the Republican party. It is the utilitarian retards who have diluted the true LP message that have ruined it.

The Rothbard caucus is what needs to become the party.

http://www.lprc.org/tenpoints.html

There is a ROLE to play for Ron Paul. He is best served in the Republican party. BUT what he does is put people onto the Austrian School - AWAY FROM "Republicanism etc"

THERE WILL BE NO CHANGE WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. THE KING MARKERS MAKE IT BLATANTLY EVIDENT.

Ron Paul, Rand Paul... stay Republican, maybe Schiff aswell.

And at the same time, the LP PARTY GOES RADICAL. Gets the message out. People vote for Ron Paul etc, but also the LP candidates.

[Conza88]

The Ten Points of the Libertarian Party Rothbard Caucus

1
Principled Populism—The Libertarian Party should be a mass-participation party operating in the electoral area and elsewhere, devoted to consistent libertarian principle, and committed to liberty and justice for all. The Libertarian Party should trust in and rely on the people to welcome a program of liberty and justice and should always aim strategically at convincing the bulk of the people of the soundess of libertarian doctrine.

2
Rights Are Primary—The central commitment of the Libertarian Party should be to individual liberty on the basis of rights and moral principle, and not on the basis of economic cost-benefit estimates.

3
Power Elite Analysis—American society is divided into a government-privileged class and a government-oppressed class and is ruled by a power elite. Libertarian Party strategy and pronouncements should reflect these facts.

4
Resistance & The Oppressed—The Libertarian Party should make a special effort to recruit members from groups mosts oppressed by the government so that the indignation of those who experience oppression is joined to that of those who oppose oppression in principle. The Libertarian Party should never approve of the initiation of force, nor should it rule out self-defense and resistance to tyranny.

5
No Compromise—The Rothbard Caucus insists that all reforms advocated by the Libertarian Party must diminish governmental power and that no such reforms are to contradict the goal of a totally free society. Holding high our principles means avoiding completely the quagmire of self-imposed, obligatory gradualism: We must avoid the view that, in the name of fairness, abating suffering, or fulfilling expectations, we must temporize and stall on the road to liberty.

6
No Particular Order—The removal of a harmful government policy should never be held up as a condition for removing another, for this throws self-imposed barriers in the path of liberty and removes potential pressures for change. For example, saying that borders may be opened only after welfare is eliminated is unacceptable; the proper position is to push for both changes. Should we succeed in achieving open borders only to find that welfare burdens are increased, this should be used as an additional argument to abolish welfare.

7
Strategic Centrism—Avoiding the twin errors of sectarianism and opportunism is key. Simply repeating our basic principles and not proposing transition measures is ineffective in the short run because only a small part of the populace is interested in liberty in the abstract, and hiding or abandoning our principled positions is ineffective in the long run because it fails to sustain us as a movement and attract and retain new Libertarians.

8

Radical Abolitionism --As the word radical means "going to the root" of something, radical Libertarians should not merely propose small changes to the status quo and debate the fine points of government policy with their opponents, but should propose the abolition of State institutions and programs while calling attention to the evil at their base: the coercion, force, and tyranny inherent in the State. Because morality and logic are on our side, the best candidates and spokespersons will sound eminently reasonable while maintaining radical libertarian positions.

9
Anti-Imperialism & Centrality of Foreign Policy—Because the United States government aspires to world-wide control of events, foreign policy is always potentially the most important issue of our time. The Libertarian Party should bring to the public the truth about the continuing threat to world peace posed by U.S. foreign policy. No one should be deceived by the notion that any government, like the American, which has a relatively benign domestic policy, therefore has a relatively benign foreign policy.

10
Anti-State Coalition—The Rothbard Caucus agrees to the view, adopted by the Libertarian Party at its 1974 Dallas convention, that for purposes of party programs and activities the issue of the ultimate legitimacy of government per se is not relevant. We oppose all efforts to exclude either anarchists or minimal statists from party life.

[revolutionary8]

That or a billionaire with about $500 million to spare

Go stampede your bad self around the "establishment candidates" and ask THEM to "spare you a mil or bil"...
how bout that?;)

-balls to the wall my ass.:D

[nobody's_hero]

I was one of 1,402 residents of the state of Georgia who typed in the name Chuck Baldwin on my ballot screen.

One of 127,923 who voted for Allen Buckley and forced a run-off between Chambliss and Martin.

Going down fighting can be fun, too. :D

[CasualApathy]

Sounds exciting, but no legend can be made without tubage.

[free.alive]

Thanks for spelling it out!

What a platform. Our elected officials should read over that at the start of every day.

[Join The Paul Side]

This sounds like it was a great speech. Too bad many of us missed it. You guys telling me that nobody recorded this?!?!

Will there be an encore replay or something? :confused:

[Jeremy]

I don't know why people in this thread are saying Peter Schiff was bashing the LP based on what it stands for today. Well that's another story... But he was bashing it simply for being a minor party and therefore "having no chance." He wasn't exactly "dissing" it. Just telling them they should reconsider their strategy for liberty (and specifically work on infiltrating the Republican Party, not working with a third party).

[Conza88]

Libertarians becoming more associated with Republicans...

THAT strategy is FUCKEN retarded.

Pardon the french. Not worked in the past and ain't going to work in the future.

False left / right paradigm. Expose the two parties. Education by running campaigns. Support Ron Paul folks etc. who can get into the debates. Denounce both sides.

But don't cave the LP party (which needs to become more radical and not sell out and DIE which is exactly what they've done)...

WHY focus on just ONE strategy? Fundamentally idiotic.

[MRoCkEd]

I just got back from it. I wouldn't say he 'dissed' the LP. In fact he said "it is the only party that makes any sense." I'm sure many of the people there were big "L" Libertarians, but both people who were sitting on either end of me (as well as myself) were registered Republicans trying to bring libertarianism to the GOP.
Yeah. He was speaking from a pragmatic standpoint. The libertarian party is very principled. However, they haven't even come close to winning a significant race in the last forty years. The media and the average person dismiss any third party candidate.

Now, while the Republican party is in shambles, however, is an excellent opportunity to infiltrate the party with true libertarian candidates who have the credibility to say they opposed the spending under Bush, and now they oppose it under Obama. Also, as Peter noted, the main issues that Democrats attack Republicans on are social issues. A socially tolerant, strong fiscal conservative who can distance himself from the status-quo Republicans just might have a chance.

Now let's just hope that Peter runs.

[MRoCkEd]

The Video is up:

Video: Peter Schiff gives the Libertarian Party some tough medicine
"We Need to Influence the GOP!" (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=19171)

[RevolutionSD]

We will never achieve freedom through political parties.

[RevolutionSD]

Yeah. He was speaking from a pragmatic standpoint. The libertarian party is very principled. However, they haven't even come close to winning a significant race in the last forty years. The media and the average person dismiss any third party candidate.

Now, while the Republican party is in shambles, however, is an excellent opportunity to infiltrate the party with true libertarian candidates who have the credibility to say they opposed the spending under Bush, and now they oppose it under Obama. Also, as Peter noted, the main issues that Democrats attack Republicans on are social issues. A socially tolerant, strong fiscal conservative who can distance himself from the status-quo Republicans just might have a chance.

Now let's just hope that Peter runs.

The LP is FAR from principled. They are a mess. Bob Barr, are you kidding me? He doesn't even want to end the income tax, and he's a former drug warrior and CIA! The LP is simply the GOP lite now, and you won't be able to win anything by losing principles.

[powerofreason]

The LP is FAR from principled. They are a mess. Bob Barr, are you kidding me? He doesn't even want to end the income tax, and he's a former drug warrior and CIA! The LP is simply the GOP lite now, and you won't be able to win anything by losing principles.

QFT

The LP has become an embarrassment. I have more respect for the shit I just flushed down the toilet.

[MRoCkEd]

The LP is FAR from principled. They are a mess. Bob Barr, are you kidding me? He doesn't even want to end the income tax, and he's a former drug warrior and CIA! The LP is simply the GOP lite now, and you won't be able to win anything by losing principles.
Fair enough. But the point is the GOP is a better vehicle for giving libertarian-minded individuals a shot at being elected.

[ChaosControl]

Do you really want to be part of the party that consolidated government to the federal level, that effectively destroyed the existence of the US republic. The name of the republican party is highly ironic.

[Conza88]

Calling the LP "principled", is like calling a Priest who just molested a child, "honorable".

Too far?

The truth hurts.

[Conza88]

For those that have short memories...

YouTube - How The Elite Control Politics (Alex Jones) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTahZE4q90U)

Someone point out how you're going to "take over" the Republican leadership of the GOP?

I mean, have you learnt fck all the last time round?

Anyone remember the Ron Paul delegates who sold out on the day? And voted McCain? hmmm ?

[HOLLYWOOD]

Dodd is so corrupt, as well as the "fixed" Duopoly of the Dem's and Rep's stranglehold to these Dog and Pony shows by the 2 feathers of the same Vulture.

This is the Battle Schiff needs to win, overcoming the Cronie 2 party, their paid buddies in the media, especially the political columnists, and of course Money. LPers, CPers, TPers, GPers, Independents... need to take over the Republican party.

John Corzine:

NEWARK, N.J. - Sen. Jon Corzine, the New Jersey Democrat, brings his characteristic grandiosity even to his buyer's remorse.
In 2000, the former chairman of Goldman Sachs pulled $65.2 million from his wallet to buy a U.S. Senate seat.
But just four years after the most expensive Senate campaign in American history, he decided to escape from that seat - for which he paid $27,489.03 a day, prorated over six years - and try to become governor.



former CEO of Goldman Sachs sank more than $45 million into his gubernatorial campaign in 2005 and about $65 million into a successful run for U.S. Senate in 2000.
"The truth is, Corzine really has to rely on ridiculously outspending his opponent because he certainly can't run on his dismal record as governor and it will take upto $75 Million this time around"
These Goldman Sachs boys just keep showing up everywhere in Government, but as you see... it is WEALTH that controls the elections and outcomes. Upto $75 Million for a governor seat that pays $175K but get this, Jon Corzine accepts a token salary of $1 per year as Governor. Because he's such a do gooder and all about the people. :rolleyes:
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_New_Jersey#cite_note-6)
The Masses are Sheeple, fooled by the Masters that play them like Marionettes.


Schiff needs to debate Dodd. Total Pawnage in the making.
Schiff is sharp.

[johnrocks]

With so many having left the party, he is right,imho, the pickings are there if all libertarian/paleo conservative/constitutionalist types joined, the neo cons would hopefully be outnumbered.

[mstrmac1]

This was Peter at his best... I agree w/ him completely... We need to take over the Republican party.

[sailor]

The Ten Points of the Libertarian Party Rothbard Caucus

1
Principled Populism—The Libertarian Party should be a mass-participation party operating in the electoral area and elsewhere, devoted to consistent libertarian principle, and committed to liberty and justice for all. The Libertarian Party should trust in and rely on the people to welcome a program of liberty and justice and should always aim strategically at convincing the bulk of the people of the soundess of libertarian doctrine.

2
Rights Are Primary—The central commitment of the Libertarian Party should be to individual liberty on the basis of rights and moral principle, and not on the basis of economic cost-benefit estimates.

3
Power Elite Analysis—American society is divided into a government-privileged class and a government-oppressed class and is ruled by a power elite. Libertarian Party strategy and pronouncements should reflect these facts.

4
Resistance & The Oppressed—The Libertarian Party should make a special effort to recruit members from groups mosts oppressed by the government so that the indignation of those who experience oppression is joined to that of those who oppose oppression in principle. The Libertarian Party should never approve of the initiation of force, nor should it rule out self-defense and resistance to tyranny.

5
No Compromise—The Rothbard Caucus insists that all reforms advocated by the Libertarian Party must diminish governmental power and that no such reforms are to contradict the goal of a totally free society. Holding high our principles means avoiding completely the quagmire of self-imposed, obligatory gradualism: We must avoid the view that, in the name of fairness, abating suffering, or fulfilling expectations, we must temporize and stall on the road to liberty.

6
No Particular Order—The removal of a harmful government policy should never be held up as a condition for removing another, for this throws self-imposed barriers in the path of liberty and removes potential pressures for change. For example, saying that borders may be opened only after welfare is eliminated is unacceptable; the proper position is to push for both changes. Should we succeed in achieving open borders only to find that welfare burdens are increased, this should be used as an additional argument to abolish welfare.

7
Strategic Centrism—Avoiding the twin errors of sectarianism and opportunism is key. Simply repeating our basic principles and not proposing transition measures is ineffective in the short run because only a small part of the populace is interested in liberty in the abstract, and hiding or abandoning our principled positions is ineffective in the long run because it fails to sustain us as a movement and attract and retain new Libertarians.

8

Radical Abolitionism --As the word radical means "going to the root" of something, radical Libertarians should not merely propose small changes to the status quo and debate the fine points of government policy with their opponents, but should propose the abolition of State institutions and programs while calling attention to the evil at their base: the coercion, force, and tyranny inherent in the State. Because morality and logic are on our side, the best candidates and spokespersons will sound eminently reasonable while maintaining radical libertarian positions.

9
Anti-Imperialism & Centrality of Foreign Policy—Because the United States government aspires to world-wide control of events, foreign policy is always potentially the most important issue of our time. The Libertarian Party should bring to the public the truth about the continuing threat to world peace posed by U.S. foreign policy. No one should be deceived by the notion that any government, like the American, which has a relatively benign domestic policy, therefore has a relatively benign foreign policy.

10
Anti-State Coalition—The Rothbard Caucus agrees to the view, adopted by the Libertarian Party at its 1974 Dallas convention, that for purposes of party programs and activities the issue of the ultimate legitimacy of government per se is not relevant. We oppose all efforts to exclude either anarchists or minimal statists from party life.

Good read.

[He Who Pawns]

The Video is up:

Video: Peter Schiff gives the Libertarian Party some tough medicine
"We Need to Influence the GOP!" (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=19171)

Is there any way to get this onto youtube?

[Andrew-Austin]

So Schiff wants Libertarians to court the GOP, to work alongside the GOP just because this would supposedly be the easier strategy.

1. The GOP stands opposed to basic Libertarian principles.

2. The GOP has an absolutely horrid reputation, Americans are still mad at their bullshit, and to have Libertarians suddenly join hands with them would transfer/blur their record on to Libertarians in the minds of others. Telling people "I'm a Libertarian" would become synonymous with telling them you are a neocon, and we'd have to invent another fucking term for classical liberal.

3. Was Ron Paul not pushing third parties not too long ago? You don't fight the two party system by becoming apart of it, and thus inevitably playing in to the political nonsense.

4. The two parties gain power by courting power, to expect Libertarians to now do the same without watering down and corrupting good principles (somewhere along the line) is naive.

5. So what if Libertarians have not won anything in forty years... The Dems and Repubs have won plenty of elections by pandering, lying, comprising principles, etc. Does that make them "winners"? Or does that make them scum bags? Winning isn't everything.

6. The libertarian-lites who would join the GOP, would either be ignored by the party leadership, or compromise in principle. We would end up having some Republican tool for TPTF who espoused Libertarian rhetoric on the campaign trail, only to do a 180 once in office. We would end up with more controlled candidates in this controlled party.


Change the thread title, this isn't "amazing" just because it came from Peter Schiff, its naive.

[1000-points-of-fright]

What percentage of the GOP identify themselves as libertarians? What would that percentage be if most of the LP joined the Republican party?

I bet it would be a solid majority. Add to that all the independents that would join and you've completely remade the GOP.

[torchbearer]

What percentage of the GOP identify themselves as libertarians? What would that percentage be if most of the LP joined the Republican party?

I bet it would be a solid majority. Add to that all the independents that would join and you've completely remade the GOP.

true.
The GOP is just a vehicle. It will have the face of its leadership.
The party of Taft and Goldwater is also the party of Bush and Bush?
It is just a vehicle.
The media will never allow the LP a fair chance. The GOP leadership wants the LP to stay in the LP. Then their leadership can't be challenged.

[MRoCkEd]

Is there any way to get this onto youtube?
Well I just did a screen capture for the portion on getting libertarians elected.
I'll upload it now and then start a new thread.

[Andrew-Austin]

The GOP is just a vehicle. It will have the face of its leadership.
The party of Taft and Goldwater is also the party of Bush and Bush?
It is just a vehicle.


If its just a "vehicle", its also a hierarchically remote controlled one.



The media will never allow the LP a fair chance.

The media will never allow those espousing liberty a fair chance, not sure it has anything to do with the LP being just a "third party".


The GOP leadership wants the LP to stay in the LP. Then their leadership can't be challenged.

I'm sure the GOP leadership is already planning on giving the party a face-lift, having a few libertarians join and bolster the party would not necessarily disrupt any plans they have to capture a new image. Come 2012 no matter the Libertarian influence, we would end up having a candidate who sounds something like Reagan on the campaign trail, who acts like a Bush once in office.

[torchbearer]

If its just a "vehicle", its also a hierarchically remote controlled one.



The media will never allow those espousing liberty a fair chance, not sure it has anything to do with the LP being just a "third party".



I'm sure the GOP leadership is already planning on giving the party a face-lift, having a few libertarians join and bolster the party would not necessarily disrupt any plans they have to capture a new image. Come 2012 no matter the Libertarian influence, we would end up having a candidate who sounds something like Reagan on the campaign trail, who acts like a Bush once in office.

You are speaking to the former Vice-Chair of the LALP. I speak from personal experience as someone who has ran for office TWICE as an LP candidate- and as someone who has the record in most percentage of votes recieved by an LP candidate in this state.
YOu have no standing in my eyes until you've butted your head against the iron curtain a few times to even begin to lecture me on the validity of my statements.
Schiff is 100% right. Ron Paul has proven he is right. And my experience of 12 years in the LP as its top activist tells me they are both right.
We have a better chance at regaining liberty by taking over the GOP.

[rockandrollsouls]

It's not about a party. It's about turning this country around by restoring its founding principles. This necessitates getting people who care about liberty into elected office. Obviously many in the LP have tried in its nearly 40 years of existence and the results speak for themselves. Ballot access, media coverage, and invitations to debates -- these are all huge obstacles to overcome that major party candidates don't face.

If you just want it function as an educational outreach party, fine. But I think things have gotten to the point where we have no option but to play within their framework if we actually want to save this country from complete disaster.

It's about the principles the party represents. The lost republicans have diminished the libertarian message. I'd like to win some elections, too, but it's hard when the nation is full of sheep. However, that doesn't mean our message is worthy of diminishing. Libertarians can still work with the republican party to push through candidates of lesser government; rothbard would have seized that opportunity, I believe. However, we would never abandon the party or our message.

[torchbearer]

It's about the principles the party represents. The lost republicans have diminished the libertarian message. I'd like to win some elections, too, but it's hard when the nation is full of sheep. However, that doesn't mean our message is worthy of diminishing. Libertarians can still work with the republican party to push through candidates of lesser government; rothbard would have seized that opportunity, I believe. However, we would never abandon the party or our message.

Problem is- not sure if this is national rules also, but I do know that the LALP is forbidden to endorse any candidate besides those in the LP. They couldn't endorse Ron Paul simply because he is a Republican.
That says to me that they are putting party before principle. The same thing that destroyed the GOP.
Partisanship must die- an objective view would see that the super-majority of voters are mindless drones who only knows what cable news tells them.
The best chance the LP ever had at making a difference was in its first national elections. The year it did its best- but was far from impressive.
Ever since then- the media has labeled it as a wasted vote- and the drones have obeyed.

[Andrew-Austin]

You are speaking to the former Vice-Chair of the LALP. I speak from personal experience as someone who has ran for office TWICE as an LP candidate- and as someone who has the record in most percentage of votes recieved by an LP candidate in this state.
YOu have no standing in my eyes until you've butted your head against the iron curtain a few times to even begin to lecture me on the validity of my statements.
Schiff is 100% right. Ron Paul has proven he is right. And my experience of 12 years in the LP as its top activist tells me they are both right.
We have a better chance at regaining liberty by taking over the GOP.

Why do you think Ron Paul was encouraging a third party movement? Is it because he thought the national GOP was receptive to real change?
I'm implying its not wise to play to win in such a manner, because in the end liberty won't win out in the GOP. Republican party policy is not formed from the bottom up, but from the top down. What has the Libertarian Ron Paul proved? That he could run for President under the Republican label just for educational ends? He certainly never stood a chance at winning, what makes you think if other Libertarians disguised themselves as Republicans, they could win?

Hypothetically if Libertarians took over the GOP, what makes you think the media would continue to pay attention to them? Sorry if this is a bit conspiratorial, but the two parties win elections for a reason.

We are not talking about whether the LP can ever gain power in the future here, so I don't know what point bringing up your experience with the LP is supposed to make.

[torchbearer]

Why do you think Ron Paul was encouraging a third party movement? Is it because he thought the national GOP was receptive to real change?
I'm implying its not wise to play to win in such a manner, because in the end liberty won't win out in the GOP. Republican party policy is not formed from the bottom up, but from the top down.

We are not talking about whether the LP can ever gain power in the future here, so I don't know what point bringing up your experience with the LP is supposed to make.

Why didn't Ron run as a Libertarian in 2008?

In my state- we have two groups doing things reduntantly.
I am the 5th district coordinator for the C4L and the 5th district coordinator for the LALP.
Each group is doing the same thing, but doing it seperately. Each less effective than it would be if they were working together.
I try to bring everyone on the same page- yet the LP refuses to help the C4L simply because it isn't LP.
The C4L is making great progress, the LP isn't. With their help- with all of us working as one team- we have a chance.
We have a harder road ahead if we continue as we are.

[ctiger2]

Why didn't Ron run as a Libertarian in 2008?

Exactly. Ron Paul has stated over and over that the system is biased towards a 2 party system. All libertarians should be running as Republicans. Rand Paul is running as Republican. Peter Schiff will run as a Republican. RJ Harris and Adam Kokesh should run as Republicans. That's how you internally take the GOP back.

[BenIsForRon]

Those arguing against Schiff are missing his point I think...

What he's saying is that we don't have time to wait to build a working third party, we need to take over the GOP while it's weak and make it a vehicle for our policies. This is our best chance to get the country back on track.

You see, at the local, state, and national level, the GOP has the infrastructure in place to support any candidate. Most classic GOP'ers are not going to oppose somebody like Schiff just because he want's to legalize drugs. Actually, most republican's liked Ron Paul, it's just that they either didn't know enough about him, or they though he didn't have a chance to win. With the current state of the economy, and if we gain more grassroots support over the coming years, we have a much larger chance of achieving what we couldn't in '08.

I think the one of the biggest hurdles for making this work is the media. But, as we've seen, some media is more corrupt than others. If we can get our foot in the door on places like Maddow, some shows on Fox Business, and popular blogs like HuffPo and Kos, then we can pass that threshold and start to be portrayed as a serious and viable movement.

[He Who Pawns]

The only way third-party will work anytime soon would be with a very famous or very wealthy candidate to head it up, like Perot or some celeb, etc.

[HOLLYWOOD]

We need to unite... said it a lot. Schiff is correct. Once were in the door, then we can change the rules and expose the Congressional Clowns, kickout the NEOCONs and FASCISTS.

Remember, the NEOCONs have their insider Power/Control GOP circle. They are worried just as much losing their Progressive Socialist control to true GOP Republicans as to the Chromed Communists on the left.

Boehner, Pence, Blunt, Sessions... et al

[/URL]http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html (http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html)

NEOCON Watch
http://neocon-watch.blogspot.com/ (http://neocon-watch.blogspot.com/)

NEOCON Satire News
[URL]http://www.neoconnews.com/ (http://www.neoconnews.com/)

Straussian/Neocon "Principles" 101:


Noble Lies (lies/secrecy as "virtue" - > 4,10,13)
Perpetual War (war as "virtue" -> 5, 6, 8, 13)
Fear of the masses and democracy (-> 4, 9)
Government by an elite (covert rule of "the wise" -> 1,10)
Instilling a sense of superiority in a nation (-> 8, 13)
Stability/Unity via FEAR of an external threat (->13)
Exploiting moral issues/religion's hold on the people (->1,13)
National survival - supersedes the well-being of others (->2,5)
Contempt for dissenters (->10,13)
Those in power make the rules and call it justice (->1,13)
Combination of religion and nationalism (->7,13)
Fear - greatest ally of tyranny (->1,6,13)
Manipulate the images (media, based on idea of Plato's cave)



Why didn't Ron run as a Libertarian in 2008?

In my state- we have two groups doing things redundantly.
I am the 5th district coordinator for the C4L and the 5th district coordinator for the LALP.
Each group is doing the same thing, but doing it separately. Each less effective than it would be if they were working together.
I try to bring everyone on the same page- yet the LP refuses to help the C4L simply because it isn't LP.
The C4L is making great progress, the LP isn't.

With their help- with all of us working as one team- we have a chance.

We have a harder road ahead if we continue as we are.


Why didn't Ron run as a Libertarian in 2008?

In my state- we have two groups doing things reduntantly.
I am the 5th district coordinator for the C4L and the 5th district coordinator for the LALP.
Each group is doing the same thing, but doing it seperately. Each less effective than it would be if they were working together.
I try to bring everyone on the same page- yet the LP refuses to help the C4L simply because it isn't LP.
The C4L is making great progress, the LP isn't. With their help- with all of us working as one team- we have a chance.
We have a harder road ahead if we continue as we are.

[jmlfod87]

Anyone that understands economics knows that regulations destroy small businesses. The same is true for political parties. So long as their remains abundant regulations of campaigns and political parties (ie McCain-Feingold) there will be no chance of a third party competing with the two major corporations who currently control the political market.

Schiff is right, as usual, we must work within the GOP.

[max]

A party is just a vehicle anyway. If the LP ever got large enough to make a difference, it would eventually sell out its soul for a few crumbs at the Establishment's table.

Taking over the GOP is a tall order....but the odds of the LP ever winning anything are nil.

[Young Paleocon]

I've stated my position on this a few times and I think it could work well. Infiltrate both parties at the local, state and federal levels. Take over the weak party while also trying to infiltrate the strong party so that a cross party coalition could be created that would be real "bipartisanship". We wouldn't necessarily have to take over either of the parties, we could just get 25-40 House seats and a couple Senate seats and be the deciding block between the two parties. This alone might shift general policy within Congress in order to get the block vote of the coalition. I don't know how naive this sounds, but I think it is definitely possible whilst we have this administration and the current public anger. Also "shifting general policy" in the legislatures doesn't mean would have to compromise either, we could still say no to the legislation, but we could shift the tenor of the debate in our direction.

Or the LP and CP could make a united/coherent platform and pose a real threat at the local and state level until they are known well enough to attain federal office. Both of these ideas might be fantasy, but it's fun to think about.

[brandon]

Hey m-rock, I subscribed to this thread this morning planning to watch the video tonight when I had a chance. It looks like now you took down the link to the whole video though. Can you post a link to the full length speech with Q&A?

[jrskblx125]

nice... i say do the work in the republican party because libertarian is original republican, and as previously stated , the neocons hijacked the party first. whats wrong with taking the power back?