Lew Rockwell: Stay Away From The State, Peter!

[Epic]

"It's looking more and as if he will do it, though I hope not. I think he does far more good for himself and mankind in his present role. As a former political consultant, however, I will say that I think he can do very well. He can raise a lot of money nationally, and his message of economic sanity is a winner. Like Ron Paul, whom he has supported loyally, Peter is a great teacher. Of course, he will be attacked for his dad Irwin, a political prisoner at age 81. Indeed, Time magazine already started that. Politics, like the state itself, really is an irredeemably dirty business."

Some good points. It's possible that he can change more minds outside of the system.

[MRoCkEd]

Not surprising for Lew to say this, considering he is opposed to "working within the system." I strongly disagree with him though. Peter Schiff's media appearances are dwindling lately and a run for the senate will put him in the national spotlight, allowing him to expose a much larger audience to his views. Also, he has a good chance of winning, and he will be greatly influential as a senator.

[He Who Pawns]

Lew, please STFU regarding this.

[torchbearer]

Neocons and NeoLibs are asking Peter to stay away too.

[ctiger2]

I think Americans will be able to understand Peter's logic and the national exposure would be a synergism for the liberty movement. I think Peter understands that even if he doesn't win the election the "free" exposure would be a HUGE bonus for his biz. Peter must do it.

[MRoCkEd]

http://tsfiles.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/chris-dodd-d.jpg

"Lew's right, Peter! Stay away from the state!"

[torchbearer]

http://tsfiles.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/chris-dodd-d.jpg

"Lew's right, Peter! Stay away from the state!"

yup.

[Original_Intent]

I will not say the "Don't get involved" approach is stupid, because too many times in my life I have said something is stupid and had to eat crow a few years later after I got more enlightened -

That being said, I have tried for some time to talk myself into agreeing with the Lew Rockwells, the Truth Warriors, and the Heavenlyboy34s of the world - I like what they are saying, at least a PART of me agrees with MOST of what they say, but I just cannot wrap my head around the concept to the point that I can decide to live my life that way. It feels too much like giving up.

In other words, "Run Peter, RUN!"

[Njon]

Lew does good work on political theory, but his anti-activism is damaging to the liberty movement.

[Icymudpuppy]

That being said, I have tried for some time to talk myself into agreeing with the Lew Rockwells, the Truth Warriors, and the Heavenlyboy34s of the world - I like what they are saying, at least a PART of me agrees with MOST of what they say, but I just cannot wrap my head around the concept to the point that I can decide to live my life that way. It feels too much like giving up.

In the words of Peter Taggart!

NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER SURRENDER! ;)

[torchbearer]

Lew does good work on political theory, but his anti-activism is damaging to the liberty movement.

He must be very disappointed in Ron Paul and all the people who now know about Mises because of Ron's political involvement.
Lew is a hypocrite if he doesn't admit the benefit he himself has experienced from Ron's hard work in politics.

[runningdiz]

Lew does good work on political theory, but his anti-activism is damaging to the liberty movement.

Yeah I would rethink that statement.... Lew in the early stages of Ron's Campaign abandoned the sites tax exempt status JUST to help promote his campaign. I am sure this hurt his website's fundrasing. He has also helped promote other like minded people running as well.

I think the points Lew brings up are valid and its ignoorant for people to be telling him to "STFU". If Peter decides to run he will help promote his campaign as well that is a given.

[runningdiz]

He must be very disappointed in Ron Paul and all the people who now know about Mises because of Ron's political involvement.
Lew is a hypocrite if he doesn't admit the benefit he himself has experienced from Ron's hard work in politics.

I don't see how he is a hypocrite. He says what he believes and stands by it. I believe he has said before he has not voted in an election since Goldwater. I think he is someone who believes voting PERIOD continues to support the system which is why he refuses to do so.

If you read his blog and his site you will know that he realizes the attention Ron has brought to misses and Austrian Economics.

[torchbearer]

I don't see how he is a hypocrite. He says what he believes and stands by it. I believe he has said before he has not voted in an election since Goldwater. I think he is someone who believes voting PERIOD continues to support the system which is why he refuses to do so.

If you read his blog and his site you will know that he realizes the attention Ron has brought to misses and Austrian Economics.

He tells people to not get involved, yet benefits from those who do get involved.
And continues to advocate against those who benefit him. You don't see how stupid he looks?

[runningdiz]

He tells people to not get involved, yet benefits from those who do get involved.
And continues to advocate against those who benefit him. You don't see how stupid he looks?

Where does he tell people not to get involved? Where does he advocate against those who benifet him?

He does not look stupid to me he runs a site that has attracted people to the movement and Ron Paul's campaign.

[torchbearer]

Where does he tell people not to get involved? Where does he advocate against those who benifet him?

He does not look stupid to me he runs a site that has attracted people to the movement and Ron Paul's campaign.

On freedom watch he told RJ Harris he was wasting his time running for office, trying to fix politics with politics- in his words was useless.
He tells Peter Schiff to stay away. His parrots on this forum, like HB and TW mock those who vote and take part in the political process.

[ClayTrainor]

Lew is dead wrong, here.

If Ron Paul had taken this advice, than there wouldn't even be a R3volution.

Schiff for Senate!!!

[gls]

If we stay away from the state, will the state stay away from us? Didn't think so...

[runningdiz]

On freedom watch he told RJ Harris he was wasting his time running for office, trying to fix politics with politics- in his words was useless.
He tells Peter Schiff to stay away. His parrots on this forum, like HB and TW mock those who vote and take part in the political process.

Well I must have missed the Freedom Watch thing. I don't know much about RJ Harris but I know Peter Schiff is intelligent and can think for himself and I am sure already knows what Lew's opinion is without asking him.

I personally understand and have nothing against those who choose not to vote for intelectual reasons which is the case with Lew. I don't think the movement gains anything from bashing them since they have a valid point.

You cant use what his "parrots" say as an example.

[Andrew-Austin]

Lew does good work on political theory, but his anti-activism is damaging to the liberty movement.

Lew isn't about politics. Discouraging people from joining the political game, one you really can't win in the end, is not the same thing as being against activism.

My view is, the only thing we can get out of the game of politics, is reaching/educating others and sowing the seeds of doubt amongst the masses.
Ron Paul has been basically the only significant person to accomplish this in modern times, since the democratic system has a way of only giving power to those without any moral scruples, those who pander and promise to distribute privileges and property.

We will never take over government from the inside, we will never get a Congress full of liberty candidates, people who refrain from using their power to legislate. But to the extent that we can get a few liberty minded politicians in Federal office today, they can try to sell libertarian ideology to the masses by being in the public limelight. The key to rolling back the state is not by winning democratic elections, it is through winning hearts and minds, and having the masses through sheer will power withdraw their consent to be governed. Peaceful secession and non-cooperation. At first this can sound naive, but it is indeed possible to get enough people to doubt, and eventually laugh at, the democratic statist system. Monarchy was once considered the natural way of things, as inevitable, and today it is laughable. Today the result of democracy is becoming laughably sad. Educational campaigns can take many forms, and it is a tricky question to ask if Peter Schiff can be more effective acting as a citizen or Senator in reaching out to others.


If Ron Paul had taken this advice, than there wouldn't even be a R3volution.

Without the people who founded the Mises institute (people who refrained from political involvement), there wouldn't be a Congressman Ron Paul, as we know him today.

Tirelessly trying to get our guys in to office, when we're a small minority group, is not the way to roll back state power. And its certainly not the only way to educate and reach out to others. All it takes is enough people to realize and point out that the emperor has no clothes, it does not at all necessitate that we have to hold the emperor's hand.

[Unspun]

He must be very disappointed in Ron Paul and all the people who now know about Mises because of Ron's political involvement.
Lew is a hypocrite if he doesn't admit the benefit he himself has experienced from Ron's hard work in politics.

You couldn't be more wrong. Lew Rockwell is all about education and knowledge. The reason he supported Ron Paul's political campaign was not because he thought Paul could win, or could actually make changes if he won. He supported Ron Paul because he was educating and getting a message out there to many people who haven't heard this message before. Even Ron Paul recognized what he was up against and didn't think he could win, but still went ahead and ran. Why? Because he could educate people in the process. With Lew it's not about politics, it's about educating people about the evils of the State and the benefits served from freedom. Lew and Ron are on the same team, just like Lew and Peter are. He just thinks Peter would be better able to help people in the private sector than the public sector. Which there are many valid points for his views, and a large part of me agrees with him on this. Another side of me would love to see him beat Dodd. Though, I don't see that happening. Even if he did there really isn't a whole lot one person can do.

[runningdiz]

Lew isn't about politics. Discouraging people from joining the political game, one you really can't win in the end, is not the same thing as being against activism.

My view is, the only thing we can get out of the game of politics, is reaching/educating others and sowing the seeds of doubt amongst the masses.
Ron Paul has been basically the only significant person to accomplish this in modern times, since the democratic system has a way of only giving power to those without any moral scruples, those who pander and promise to distribute privileges and property.

We will never take over government from the inside, we will never get a Congress full of liberty candidates, people who refrain from using their power to legislate. But to the extent that we can get a few liberty minded politicians in Federal office today, they can try to sell libertarian ideology to the masses by being in the public limelight. The key to rolling back the state is not by winning democratic elections, it is through winning hearts and minds, and having the masses through sheer will power withdraw their consent to be governed. Peaceful secession and non-cooperation. At first this can sound naive, but it is indeed possible to get enough people to doubt, and eventually laugh at, the democratic statist system. Monarchy was once considered the natural way of things, as inevitable, and today it is laughable. Today the result of democracy is becoming laughably sad. Educational campaigns can take many forms, and it is a tricky question to ask if Peter Schiff can be more effective acting as a citizen or Senator in reaching out to others.



Without the people who founded the Mises institute (people who refrained from political involvement), there wouldn't be a Congressman Ron Paul, as we know him today.


Wow excellent post! This is exactly what I was thinking and trying to say.

In the end this is an intelectual game not a political one. We will never win through politics. The goal is to educate as many people as we can. This is why I am on the fence about Peter running. The question is can he educate people better in his current role or as a senator?

I am sure currently though he is wondering if it is possible for him to win as a Republican in a liberal state with all the baggage he has. (His father, and his economic views which goes against the majority currently)

Whatever he decides though I will support him because I am sure he will do a good job in either role.

[Andrew-Austin]

^Thanks, I got a lot of the ideas in that post from the book The God That Failed by Hoppe, if your interested. I'm not against his run per-say, so long as he can remain principled. I just don't think he has to run like some people do, and am more concerned that he makes the right choice for himself. If he does run I'll donate some cash.

[Chomsky]

I love Lew, but he is dead wrong here, and this quote is a little upsetting.

[itshappening]

Lew is wrong, public offices are there to be run for. can he do anything without a majority in the senate? NO, but Ron has been a lone voice for 20 years and he has done a great deal of good.

[nobody's_hero]

I don't want Peter to get corrupted any more than Lew does, but the worst thing that could happen is that Washington changes him and we have to pull Peter out of the Senate and slap him around for a while because he dropped the liberty flag in the mud.

Ron Paul needs reinforcements.

Having said that, it doesn't just stop with getting Peter elected (if he wins). The newcomers to Congress will need plenty of encouragement from this movement once they get to Washington and then some. We have to be like the annoying preacher who goes around telling teenagers not to kiss because it eventually leads to a life of sin—sort of.

[sailor]

Lew is wrong, public offices are there to be run for. can he do anything without a majority in the senate? NO, but Ron has been a lone voice for 20 years and he has done a great deal of good.

But Peter is already doing a world of good through his apperances as an apolitical investor. Would he be able to do more educating as a republican politician? His TV apperances and appeal may actually diminish and lower the value he has as an educator once he gets involved in politics. People have a natural aversion to politicians.

[nobody's_hero]

But Peter is already doing a world of good through his apperances as an apolitical investor. Would he be able to do more educating as a republican politician? His TV apperances and appeal may actually diminish and lower the value he has as an educator once he gets involved in politics. People have a natural aversion to politicians.

I don't know that his TV appearances would diminish; you might end up seeing him a lot more on C-SPAN. I think people have a natural aversion to the lies that politicians spread. Ron Paul has been getting more TV time than any other politician, particularly on the business news channels. I think people forget he is a politician sometimes.

I predict that it would be the same with Peter in the Senate—we could have someone who still speaks out for a Constitutionally limited government, and while in session, would vote in support of it.

Right now, we just have a lot of people speaking out for a Constitutionally limited government. That's absolutely necessary, of course, but the votes wouldn't hurt, either. Ron Paul is the only one who votes for it, consistently at least.

[axiomata]

Peter, Stay Away From Lew Rockwell

(if you plan on running for office)

[rockandrollsouls]

Lew, please STFU regarding this.

Lew has done more for liberty and freedom than you can shake a stick at. Don't tell him to STFU. He's entitled to his opinion.

[american.swan]

Did you know that senate rules allows for one senator to block any legislation? Unless they've changed it.

[Dreamofunity]

I read it more as a personal suggestion, and to that extent I agree with it. I think Peter would be better off and happier if he was not in the government. I don't know how anyone could be happy to be involved in such an atrocity, however for America, I think and wish Peter would run.

I don't believe we can make true change through government and politics, and I'm not sure what one senator could do, but at least more people would see and hear his message - hopefully. If all else fails, he gets his name out there more to help his buisness. I just think if he wins, he's going to dislike it more than his current buisness and affairs.

[He Who Pawns]

Lew has done more for liberty and freedom than you can shake a stick at. Don't tell him to STFU. He's entitled to his opinion.

He's entitled to his opinion, and I'm entitled to kindly tell Lew to STFU regarding Schiff. I like Lew, but in this case I think he should keep his trap shut.

Do you honestly think that a handful of little TV interviews from time to time and an internet radio show could compare to Schiff being in the US Senate?? You've got to be f--king kidding me. :rolleyes:

[penguin]

What a great thread to read, seems like we have got our groove back on.:)

I think a lot of people believe Ron Paul lost in 08 but I don't think so and point to the posters on this thread and all of the new PACs across this country as evidence. Peter could have the same success whether or not he wins the seat. If Peter can motivate 1/10th of the people in Connecticut to become activists like us then he has won. If Peter takes the seat then that is one less enemy against us. I can't see a downside to his running. Ron Paul started this (for me at least) but as he has said before he couldn't stop it if he tried. Peter should run like all the other Ron Paul inspired candidates and I wish them all the best of luck.

[nobody's_hero]

If Peter can motivate 1/10th of the people in Connecticut to become activists like us then he has won.


Heck, in Connecticut, if he can get just 1/1000th of the people to turn into Constitution activists, then he has won. :D

[heavenlyboy34]

In the words of Peter Taggart!

NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER SURRENDER! ;)

I agree! That's why I never support the State. ;):cool:

[heavenlyboy34]

I will not say the "Don't get involved" approach is stupid, because too many times in my life I have said something is stupid and had to eat crow a few years later after I got more enlightened -

That being said, I have tried for some time to talk myself into agreeing with the Lew Rockwells, the Truth Warriors, and the Heavenlyboy34s of the world - I like what they are saying, at least a PART of me agrees with MOST of what they say, but I just cannot wrap my head around the concept to the point that I can decide to live my life that way. It feels too much like giving up.

In other words, "Run Peter, RUN!"

Don't let lil' ol' me stop you from enjoying the mental masturbation that is the State. I'm just trying to be realistic. :cool:

[Ninja Homer]

Peter, Stay Away From Lew Rockwell

(if you plan on running for office)

Sound advice. I wish Ron Paul would have taken it.

[Kraig]

I have to agree with Lew on this one, I kind of hope Peter doesn't run now. Everyone who thinks he is saying don't get involved is wrong, he is saying don't get involved with the state and it's politics. Peter Schiff and Lew Rockwell have both made great progress in terms of getting the message of freedom out to everyone, probably more than anyone here. They are quite involed. Some you guys' comprehension is just hilarious.

[Kraig]

Peter, Stay Away From Lew Rockwell

(if you plan on running for office)

Perfect example of how politics are a dirty game, you guys turn on anyone who does not do what you want, even if they believe in 100% freedom. Truthwarrior is another good example.

[ctiger2]

Peter will run. Worst case scenario is he spends a bit of money and gets more recognition for his biz and name. Chalk it up as an advertising expense.

[Brian4Liberty]

"It's looking more and as if he will do it, though I hope not. I think he does far more good for himself and mankind in his present role."

I am not sure about this logic. A Senator or Congressman gets to go on TV just about as much as they want. Peter would still be able to do that. He wouldn't be stock picking anymore, but we don't really need that.

[Brassmouth]

Lew, please STFU regarding this.


Lew does good work on political theory, but his anti-activism is damaging to the liberty movement.

Why? You want him to shut up just because he's realized a truth you seem to be incapable of understanding?

You cannot change the State from within the State. That's why this movement fails. That's why Ron Paul failed epically.

And don't pull that "education" bullshit. Lew Rockwell has educated more people using his noncoercive anti-State methods than any power-grubbing politician shill ever could.

Stop the disrespect towards a true hero of freedom. :mad:

[torchbearer]

Why? You want him to shut up just because he's realized a truth you seem to be incapable of understanding?

You cannot change the State from within the State. That's why this movement fails. That's why Ron Paul failed epically.

And don't pull that "education" bullshit. Lew Rockwell has educated more people using his noncoercive anti-State methods than any power-grubbing politician shill ever could.

Stop the disrespect towards a true hero of freedom. :mad:

I think Lew cast the first stones on this one.

[Brassmouth]

I am not sure about this logic. A Senator or Congressman gets to go on TV just about as much as they want. Peter would still be able to do that. He wouldn't be stock picking anymore, but we don't really need that.

And instead we need another tax-parasite instead of a wealth-creating businessman? You people are rich....


Lew has done more for liberty and freedom than you can shake a stick at. Don't tell him to STFU. He's entitled to his opinion.


I agree! That's why I never support the State. ;):cool:

QFT.


On freedom watch he told RJ Harris he was wasting his time running for office, trying to fix politics with politics- in his words was useless.
He tells Peter Schiff to stay away. His parrots on this forum, like HB and TW mock those who vote and take part in the political process.

Yes. Because it's ridiculous. You are hopelessly ignorant of why the State exists in the first place if you think for even a second that it can be reformed.

And Peter Schiff, leaving his wealth-creating firm to become a tax-leech is not only a slap in the face to the libertarian movement, it's a slap in the face to his father, who valiently stood up to the State, and was enslaved and put in a cage for doing so. Now Peter will work for the people who raped his father. It's absolutely disgusting.

[Brassmouth]

I think Lew cast the first stones on this one.

It needed to be said. IMO, he was too quiet up till now. He should have called Schiff out on it during one of those podcasts.

[torchbearer]

No Ron Paul- none of this would be going on- 90% of you wouldn't even know who Lew is or who Mises is...
Lew is wrong. Yes- he is. education ALONE is not enough.
It is very common for people to be wrong, no matter how smart they are.



And instead we need another tax-parasite instead of a wealth-creating businessman? You people are rich....





QFT.



Yes. Because it's ridiculous. You are hopelessly ignorant of why the State exists in the first place if you think for even a second that it can be reformed.

And Peter Schiff, leaving his wealth-creating firm to become a tax-leech is not only a slap in the face to the libertarian movement, it's a slap in the face to his father, who valiently stood up to the State, and was enslaved and put in a cage for doing so. Now Peter will work for the people who raped his father. It's absolutely disgusting.

[He Who Pawns]

For the Lew jockriders here, answer me this: Do you seriously claim that Schiff is doing more good with these little occasional TV show appearances and weekly internet radio show than he would in the US Senate??????? What a complete joke.

[ClayTrainor]

And instead we need another tax-parasite instead of a wealth-creating businessman? You people are rich....

So you'd rather pay someone like dodd, than schiff... at least you admit, Mr. Rich ;)

And who says, Europac is going to stop making money when he runs for senate? I'm sure Peter knows how to manage a company well-enough to delegate the responsibilities.



Yes. Because it's ridiculous. You are hopelessly ignorant of why the State exists in the first place if you think for even a second that it can be reformed.

Yea, having Schiff and Rand Paul in the senate would certainly not be a step in the right direction :rolleyes:

In fact, under your logic, we'd be moving in the wrong direction, if we attain these victories. Total Nonsense...



And Peter Schiff, leaving his wealth-creating firm to become a tax-leech is not only a slap in the face to the libertarian movement, it's a slap in the face to his father, who valiently stood up to the State, and was enslaved and put in a cage for doing so. Now Peter will work for the people who raped his father. It's absolutely disgusting.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/facepalm.jpg

[Kraig]

I think Lew cast the first stones on this one.

Saying something you don't agree with is casting a stone?


It is very common for people to be wrong, no matter how smart they are.

Ohhh but of course not you.

[runningdiz]

For the Lew jockriders here, answer me this: Do you seriously claim that Schiff is doing more good with these little occasional TV show appearances and weekly internet radio show than he would in the US Senate??????? What a complete joke.

No offence but your being rather rude. Your telling others to stfu and calling people who present logical arguments complete jokes. This thread is great oppurtunity to debate the issue at hand not tell people off who bring up serious points. Your acting as if what Lew said was hostile when he was just stating what his opinion was on a blog. He is not bashing Peter and saying if he runs he is stupid. People that read that site are mostly intellingent and can form their own opionions about the issue so what does it matter what Lew says? Peter will listen to what he has to say but do his own thing. After all Peter has not followed the advice of his own father which shows he can think for himself.

What has Ron accomplished as a congressman? Has he gotten rid of the income tax? Abolished the Federal Reserve? Prevented any wars? NO! He has not changed anything within government as a congressmen. What he has done though is educate alot of people through his campaign. This a great thing and an emazing accomplishment. He could never have done it though without being a politician.

On the other hand you have Peter Schiff who is already "famous". He has media attention and has credibility because of the company he runs and predictions he has made. This is why he is invited on tv shows radio etc.

So the question is can Schiff educate the public better as a senator or his current role? Lew obviously believes he can do a better job by doing what he currently does. Remember as senator he will have to give some of things he currently does up. Schiff won't change government being alone in the senate just like Ron has not alone in congrees

I personally am on the fence about him running but I do realize a campaign will be a great oppurtunity to reach and educate more people. There is no question about that but what happens when the campaign is over and he wins? It is not a given that he will get more TV time unless you count CSPAN which not many people watch. He won't be able to focus just on the economy he will have to comment on other affairs as well.

[Kraig]

For the Lew jockriders here, answer me this: Do you seriously claim that Schiff is doing more good with these little occasional TV show appearances and weekly internet radio show than he would in the US Senate??????? What a complete joke.

So we're jockriders now? Maybe you should step out of that little A or B world and realize he could do something besides run for senate yet more than the public appearances he does now.

[Kraig]

... but we don't really need that.

So is it about what "we need" now? Or has it always been that way?

[Brassmouth]

So you'd rather pay someone like dodd, than schiff... at least you admit, Mr. Rich ;)

And who says, Europac is going to stop making money when he runs for senate? I'm sure Peter knows how to manage a company well-enough to delegate the responsibilities.

I'd rather not be coerced into paying anyone! The fact that I am makes no difference. You people really think Schiff won't sell out? You have to sell out just to remain in the Senate. Schiff will be corrupted like all the others.


Yea, having Schiff and Rand Paul in the senate would certainly not be a step in the right direction :rolleyes:

In fact, under your logic, we'd be moving in the wrong direction, if we attain these victories. Total Nonsense...


Victories? Have different faces in the State Mafia doesn't change a goddamn thing. They won't accomplish anything, and the movement as a whole will be poorer and less credible for having thought they would.


http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/facepalm.jpg

I don't think it's funny at all. Schiff is trying to join the very same criminal organization that destroyed his father's life. Explain to me why you think that is a laughing matter.


For the Lew jockriders here, answer me this: Do you seriously claim that Schiff is doing more good with these little occasional TV show appearances and weekly internet radio show than he would in the US Senate??????? What a complete joke.

Yeah, I'm sure the 99-1 votes will really rally the country. Watch your tongue before you call my position a joke. Adherence to ethics and common sense is never a joke.

[Kraig]

Lew is wrong. Yes- he is. education ALONE is not enough.

What has Ron Paul acomplished in all his years in office outside of educating people?

[MRoCkEd]

We don't need to be insulting each other.
Lew definitely has done a lot for liberty and he is certainly entitled to his opinion.
I will just restate that I disagree with him on this matter, and would consider Peter's run for senate in the same ballpark as Ron Paul's run for the presidency, except with an achievable goal of being elected in addition to a national soapbox to spread the message of freedom to even more people.

I think its important to point out that Lew also noted the benefits of him running:

As a former political consultant, however, I will say that I think he can do very well. He can raise a lot of money nationally, and his message of economic sanity is a winner. Like Ron Paul, whom he has supported loyally, Peter is a great teacher.

[No1ButPaul08]

I You people really think Schiff won't sell out? You have to sell out just to remain in the Senate. Schiff will be corrupted like all the others.




I've said before that I don't know that I could make a difference, even if I could get elected. I don't know what I can accomplish, I'm not really sure if I could get anything done. The bottom line is I might decide that I'm willing to give it a shot, that I might be able to take a term in the Senate. That's probably the most I would do, you know I don't want to be a politician. I don't want to be a Senator. But the one thing I know is most people that go to the Senate, all they're doing is trying to get reelected. That's the one thing I'm not going to try and do. I don't want a second term. I mean I don't even want a first term.

The only reason I would do it is because I want to see if it can actually make a difference. If I can actually bring about change from the inside in Washington. If I could actually go to Washington and try to undo all the damage that they're doing. And I've read some of the comments from the people. Most people seem to want me to run, but there are people that say that they don't want me to be a politician. Well I'm not. If I run I'm not going to be a politician, and maybe I won't be able to win. And maybe that could be the problem because I'm not going to become a politician to get a elected to a political office. If I'm going to run for Senate I'm going to run as myself and I'm going to say what I think and say what I believe, and maybe I can get elected doing that and maybe I can't...


I think Peter's feeling on this is you don't know unless you try.

[He Who Pawns]

So the question is can Schiff educate the public better as a senator or his current role? Lew obviously believes he can do a better job by doing what he currently does.

Lew is 100% wrong. Period. Schiff has to scrape and beg just to get 2 minutes on TV these days. If he was a US Senator, he could be on TV 24 hours a day if he wanted, not to mention attempting to sway policy and even filibustering in the Senate. This is a no-brainer.

[Unspun]

Lew is 100% wrong. Period. Schiff has to scrape and beg just to get 2 minutes on TV these days. If he was a US Senator, he could be on TV 24 hours a day if he wanted, not to mention attempting to sway policy and even filibustering in the Senate. This is a no-brainer.

You're kidding yourself if you think a congressman can be on TV 24 hours a day. Ron Paul gets access to cable television 24 hours a day? I think not. It's, in fact, you who is wrong. This is not a no-brainer. If it was indeed a no brainer Peter would have instantly, without hesitation, decided to run the very moment he saw there was populous grass roots support.

[ClayTrainor]

I'd rather not be coerced into paying anyone! The fact that I am makes no difference. You people really think Schiff won't sell out? You have to sell out just to remain in the Senate. Schiff will be corrupted like all the others.


nonsense, and pure speculation.



Victories? Have different faces in the State Mafia doesn't change a goddamn thing. They won't accomplish anything, and the movement as a whole will be poorer and less credible for having thought they would.

If you say so :rolleyes:

Let's let the criminals keep doing what they're doing, because it's working so well... Enjoy more Dodd :rolleyes:




I don't think it's funny at all. Schiff is trying to join the very same criminal organization that destroyed his father's life. Explain to me why you think that is a laughing matter.

Funny? Am i laughing? I just think your position is a tad, illogical,a nd it causes me to put my hand on my face. The image is representative of that.

*Facepalm*




Yeah, I'm sure the 99-1 votes will really rally the country. Watch your tongue before you call my position a joke. Adherence to ethics and common sense is never a joke.

Dr. No has sure started getting a lot of attention for his is lone, principled votes.

[Kraig]

nonsense, and pure speculation

Speculation for sure, but not non-sense. Who knows what kind of offers he would get as a senator, and he may have some achilles heal, it's a risk for sure...probably a very small one.

[ClayTrainor]

Speculation for sure, but not non-sense. Who knows what kind of offers he would get as a senator, and he may have some achilles heal, it's a risk for sure...probably a very small one.

Yea, i hear you.

[runningdiz]

Lew is 100% wrong. Period. Schiff has to scrape and beg just to get 2 minutes on TV these days. If he was a US Senator, he could be on TV 24 hours a day if he wanted, not to mention attempting to sway policy and even filibustering in the Senate. This is a no-brainer.

None of your arguments hold together. I doubt schiff goes out and begs to be on TV if he does though you can happily prove me wrong with some evidence. Ron Paul is not on TV 24 hours a day. If you are hinting at CSPAN that is worthless exposure. He can attempt to sway policy but he will have as much luck as Ron has unless he gets help in senate.(Rand winning). What does filibustering senate accomplish? Not much. Passing legislation like abolishing Patriot Act would be an accomplishment but wont happen just because Schiff is elected. You have yet to present logic and you continue to bash people with stupid one liners.

[He Who Pawns]

None of your arguments hold together. I doubt schiff goes out and begs to be on TV if he does though you can happily prove me wrong with some evidence.

Why don't you stop talking about subjects you know nothing about? Try listening to Schiff's radio show, for starters. There are years worth of archives at Europac. Peter basically starts out every show complaining about how HE IS TRYING TO GET BOOKED ON SHOWS AND CANNOT. Any Schiff radio show fans here will back me up on that.


Ron Paul is not on TV 24 hours a day. If you are hinting at CSPAN that is worthless exposure.

A senator is different than a congressman. If you do not understand that, you should not be debating issues like these on this forum.

[Brian4Liberty]

So is it about what "we need" now? Or has it always been that way?

I don't need a stock picker. My portfolio was pretty close to Schiff's before I ever heard of him. We have plenty of stock pickers on TV already.

If Schiff were in government, he would have to give up talking about specific investments, but he could continue to talk about big picture economics. And most shows would invite him on to do just that.

I can't think of a current Senator that I would not prefer to replace with Schiff. I would be especially happy if he came to California and replaced one of our kleptocrat Senators.

[Kraig]

I don't need a stock picker. My portfolio was pretty close to Schiff's before I ever heard of him. We have plenty of stock pickers on TV already.

If Schiff were in government, he would have to give up talking about specific investments, but he could continue to talk about big picture economics. And most shows would invite him on to do just that.

I can't think of a current Senator that I would not prefer to replace with Schiff. I would be especially happy if he came to California and replaced one of our kleptocrat Senators.

I can't think of someone on government payroll I would not prefer to fire.

[Brian4Liberty]

I can't think of someone on government payroll I would not prefer to fire.

You're generous. Fire and jail might be in order for some of them.

[Kraig]

You're generous. Fire and jail might be in order for some of them.

Well yeah, but if you fired them all, who would jail them? I don't think I would be willing to pay for someone to do it just for the sake of revenge.

[runningdiz]

Why don't you stop talking about subjects you know nothing about? Try listening to Schiff's radio show, for starters. There are years worth of archives at Europac. Peter basically starts out every show complaining about how HE IS TRYING TO GET BOOKED ON SHOWS AND CANNOT. Any Schiff radio show fans here will back me up on that.



A senator is different than a congressman. If you do not understand that, you should not be debating issues like these on this forum.

You continue to hurl insults to avoid answering questions...

I asked for you to enlighten me with proof that he begs to be on shows and you kinda did so thank you. I will check out archives of his radio shows.

I realize a senator is different then a congressman just like everyone else here. Do you think a senator will get more publicity than a congressman? This is not the case i have never seen my senator on national TV. Since there are less people in the senate his vote will count more then Ron's ever does but what can he accomplish by himself besides educating people?

[Dreamofunity]

Speculation for sure, but not non-sense. Who knows what kind of offers he would get as a senator, and he may have some achilles heal, it's a risk for sure...probably a very small one.

With a father like Schiff has, I'd say it's a fairly rare chance that Schiff could be bought by government. It's a rather personal fight for him I'd imagine.

[Nathan Hale]

"It's looking more and as if he will do it, though I hope not. I think he does far more good for himself and mankind in his present role. As a former political consultant, however, I will say that I think he can do very well. He can raise a lot of money nationally, and his message of economic sanity is a winner. Like Ron Paul, whom he has supported loyally, Peter is a great teacher. Of course, he will be attacked for his dad Irwin, a political prisoner at age 81. Indeed, Time magazine already started that. Politics, like the state itself, really is an irredeemably dirty business."

Some good points. It's possible that he can change more minds outside of the system.

I disagree. Both of his outlets (books and TV interviews) can be maintained when he serves in the Senate. In fact, serving in the Senate would probably magnify his media exposure. He'd have to become a passive partner in his business, probably, but that's strategic chump change compared to what he gains.

[buffalokid777]

What has Ron Paul acomplished in all his years in office outside of educating people?

That is such a defeatist attitude Kraig.

Hopefully passing HR 1207 into law will be the first major thing that heads this country in the right direction, it has been a long time coming but all Ron Paul's hardwork over the years is finally beginning to pay divedends..

It reminds me of the Hundereth Monkey story. A short story linked here if you have never heard of it.

http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/stories/100monkeys_kkeyes.htm

Except in this case it is 218 Monkeys we need for the breakthrough.

179 Co Sponsors for HR 1207, we need just 39 more.

Except this time instead of washng sweet potatoes, it is restoring the constitution and the Values, Freedoms and Liberties contained within it.

[Kraig]

That is such a defeatist attitude Kraig.

Hopefully passing HR 1207 into law will be the first major thing that heads this country in the right direction, it has been a long time coming but all Ron Paul's hardwork over the years is finally beginning to pay divedends..

It reminds me of the Hundereth Monkey story. A short story linked here if you have never heard of it.

http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/stories/100monkeys_kkeyes.htm

Except in this case it is 218 Monkeys we need for the breakthrough.

179 Co Sponsors for HR 1207, we need just 39 more.

Except this time instead of washng sweet potatoes, it is restoring the constitution and the Values, Freedoms and Liberties contained within it.

Well we are losing so it is a realistic attitude. I am not accepting defeat, I just don't think we can win freedom through politics. I think the country is going to fall apart, and I don't think it can be stopped. Theoretically it can, there is nothing that says the men in power can't have a change of heart or be replaced, but will it happen? Realistically, I don't think so. Realistically all governments collapse and I believe our time has come.

[buffalokid777]

Well we are losing so it is a realistic attitude. I am not accepting defeat, I just don't think we can win freedom through politics. I think the country is going to fall apart, and I don't think it can be stopped. Theoretically it can, there is nothing that says the men in power can't have a change of heart or be replaced, but will it happen? Realistically, I don't think so. Realistically all governments collapse and I believe our time has come.

Well you are entilted to your opinion.

But I disagree.

I consider HR 1207 as a breakthrough.

How many co sponsors has Ron Paul had on a bill before this? This has a real chance.

I consider most of congress about as smart as a monkey that is why I thought of the hundreth monkey story.

But the way Ron Paul exceeded expectations in the presidential election, especially in fundraising raised eyebrows among other members of congress and bought Ron Paul some political capital among his peers who aren't in the back pocket of the globalist agenda.

I think HR 1207 is proof of that. A few more freedom candidates with the same success to echo the message is all we might need to turn this around and start gaining some legislative ground. Why question our chances when we are making the greatest gains yet? 179 co sponsors......39 to go. I think the glass is 82% full.

[Kraig]

I consider HR 1207 as a breakthrough.


That's just what I'm talking about, it will be a "breakthrough" when the fed is actually monitored, controlled, and then eliminated. Up until then, it is just a moral victory with no real consequence. They are releasing reports that we are all potential terrorists. They are printing more money than ever. We are in debt more than ever. We have only continued to lose freedoms. What has our "greatest gains yet" really done for us? Besides give some hope.

[buffalokid777]

That's just what I'm talking about, it will be a "breakthrough" when the fed is actually monitored, controlled, and then eliminated. Up until then, it is just a moral victory with no real consequence. They are releasing reports that we are all potential terrorists. They are printing more money than ever. We are in debt more than ever. We have only continued to lose freedoms. What has our "greatest gains yet" really done for us? Besides give some hope.

Like I said you have a defeatist attitude, rather than working to try to get this passed, you ask what has it done for us?

A journey of a 1000 miles begins with the first step.

Most of these congressmen that aren't gloablist paid for are led around to conclusions by those in the globalist agenda through the delphi technique created by the RAND corporation.

If we had 3 more Ron Pauls with his political capital in the house, we could delphi them too. And since most of those in congress that aren't onboard with the globalist agenda, are well meaning but not very bright. I think we could make great strides if we could use the delphi technique also, we just need a few more in congress.

We can educate the masses, but the ones we need to educate the most are the ones in the congress and senate, and we can only do that by having Liberty candidates in the House and Senate. Otherwise they will be educated by those who are onboard with the globalist agenda.

[Kraig]

Like I said you have a defeatist attitude, rather than working to try to get this passed, you ask what has it done for us?

A journey of a 1000 miles begins with the first step.

Most of these congressmen that aren't gloablist paid for are led around to conclusions by those in the globalist agenda through the delphi technique created by the RAND corporation.

If we had 3 more Ron Pauls with his political capital in the house, we could delphi them too. And since most of those in congress that aren't onboard with the globalist agenda, are well meaning but not very bright. I think we could make great strides if we could use the delphi technique also, we just need a few more in congress.

We can educate the masses, but the ones we need to educate the most are the ones in the congress and senate, and we can only do that by having Liberty candidates in the House and Senate. Otherwise they will be educated by those who are onboard with the globalist agenda.

I have put in a good number of hours directly promoting HR 1207 and I have also used my time and money promoting Ron Paul when he was running, I will probably continue to do so for people like Rand Paul or Peter Schiff if he decides to run. I am an anarchist, I became one after well after Ron Paul was running in the primary, and I strongly believe in sticking to principles rather than breaking them for the sake of some utility, so I am kind of having a mental debate about that right now. Just saying for what it's worth, I think I have a realistic attitude but I am not giving up. Personally I would not run for office, I don't think it's worth it, and I think Peter Schiff would be better off for him self not running. Sure it would be better for us, but not for him, and I don't believe in living for the sake of others. So my recommendation for him would be to not run, and I would be happy to see him make that choice. I will be alright either way.

As far as educating people, I talk to everyone I know about how terrible the government is. I find young people to be very receptive to it, probably because they still have a bad taste in their mouth from years of public schooling. To me that is one of the most important things, but everyone has their own way I'm sure.

[G-Wohl]

Lew Rockwell is hardly a friend of the libertarian movement, if you ask me.

His nonsensically religious paleolibertarian tripe is offensively vile, considering how much attention he receives.

[Kraig]

Lew Rockwell is hardly a friend of the libertarian movement, if you ask me.

His nonsensically religious paleolibertarian tripe is offensively vile, considering how much attention he receives.

Give me one example of his religious tripe.

[senatorpjt]

I understand what Lew is saying, and if Europac weren't as mature as it is, I'd be inclined to agree (e.g. if he had to close his business to be a senator). However, I think that they have grown enough and are now well enough established that Peter could hand Europac's day-to-day management over to his brother for six years if he did win with little effect to the business. And, if he doesn't win, he'll get loads of exposure for Europac - even if he loses, he wins.

[Epic]

Lew Rockwell is hardly a friend of the libertarian movement, if you ask me.

His nonsensically religious paleolibertarian tripe is offensively vile, considering how much attention he receives.

-1

He's done more than anyone currently living besides Ron Paul.

Mises Institute provides much of the intellectual ammunition for the liberty movement.

When he set up the Mises Institute in the 1980s, there were like 3 people preaching Austrian economics. Now it's the most popular economics website on the web.