PREDICTION: Ron Paul will be excluded from Tuesday's debate.

[wecandoit]

There won't be official word until very late Monday or early Tuesday, when it'll be too late to organize a barage of phone calls or email protests.

They have learned their lesson.

Does anyone think the idea of banning Ron Paul from future debates ended with the 10K plus signature petetion to the MI GOP? Do you think the head of the MI GOP was the only one who felt this way? or that their desire to ban RP was reversed due to the petition, or was it increased?

They feel they can't afford a repeat of the South Carlina debate where the talking heads scoffed and dismissed RP only to see him with 36% of the text voting shortly after. What followed was probably the biggest surge of campaign contributions any candidate has seen yet.

Fox news was hopping mad, the MSM was hopping mad, as was the GOP.

By excluding Ron Paul at the last second, they would avoid a similar embarassment, and wouldn't have to worry about any more debate appearances from RP for a long time, if ever.

Understand, I want to be very wrong about this prediction.

I make this prediction to soften the blow of the deflation of our efforts they want to acheive and to reinterate what I've been saying. In order to get Ron Paul elected here is what we must do.

* Forget the polls, the media, and most likely the debates.
* Don't allow them to deflate our efforts or expectations.
* We have to be the press, inform everyone we can about RP, and what is happening.

* Make sure that those who want Ron Paul, will VOTE for Ron Paul, in the early primaries

*And then the biggest hurdle of all, do everything we can to prevent and expose voter fraud, to make sure votes for Ron Paul are tallied.

Folks, it's going to be a knock down, drag out, bloody fist fight for 7 more months.
Paul HAS to win or do very well in NH,Iowa, etc.

When he does, the man behind the curtain, the great and powerful OZ( the media) will be exposed, and it will be downhill from there.

[kylejack]

I doubt they'd pull that. I think he probably will be excluded after this debate, though.

[maggiebott]

c-span went down the list of candidates for this next debate and Ron Paul was never mentioned. I got that pang in the pit of my stomach.

I'm sorry, but I won't sit here in silence and let them get away with this. I'm going to light up the phone lines.

[kylejack]

c-span went down the list of candidates for this next debate and Ron Paul was never mentioned. I got that pang in the pit of my stomach.

I'm sorry, but I won't sit here in silence and let them get away with this. I'm going to light up the phone lines.

They were probably tired of receiving all the Ron Paul calls whenever they mentioned him. :)

[dwdollar]

I think the MSM is beginning to see Ron as a ratings gimmick. The other robots on stage are boring. Email boxes that would have otherwise been near empty are now flooded with comments by RP supporters. I suspect we have reached a critical mass in which the MSM will keep him around for the near term.

[rockjoa]

Maybe they will shorten the amount of time a candidate has to speak. What Ron Paul has to say will take more than few sentences to get across.

Observe this clip, its Family Guy but it is good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNjkiT-7vd0

Sad thing is people want easy answers that don't make people worry, think hard, or make the US look bad. Ignorance is bliss until it is too late.

[aravoth]

They kick him out of the debate we should storm the VLA and broadcast a signal across the whole microwave and UHF band. Imagine that, Ron Pauls voice coming out of every television, and every radio, probably a few cell phones as well. And the MSM can't cut it off. lol, that would kick ass.

[maggiebott]

I called the RNC 202 863 8500 and couldn't get a live person. Left a spewing tirade on voice mail for my outrage of Ron Paul not being included in the next debate. I believe it was some exective's box. This is fascism at it's finest folks!

My message to WECANDOIT is not to sit quiet until the primarys but to fight on and keep calling.

[theblatanttruth]

They kick him out of the debate we should storm the VLA and broadcast a signal across the whole microwave and UHF band. Imagine that, Ron Pauls voice coming out of every television, and every radio, probably a few cell phones as well. And the MSM can't cut it off. lol, that would kick ass.

:D

Psst, I'm a cellular, satellite, and fiber communications technician :cool:

[Bradley in DC]

I called the RNC 202 863 8500 and couldn't get a live person. Left a spewing tirade on voice mail for my outrage of Ron Paul not being included in the next debate.

Ok, a few points. Obviously it's a free country and I don't control you or anyone else (well, except my dogs, I guess). I don't think the RNC is even a sponsor of the event and would not have any control over it.

More importantly, the Paul campaign is very concerned with being tied to "spewing tirades" which contradict his own personal approach. The manner of these types of responses (via email, voicemail, web postings, etc.) are very detrimental to the campaign and help to marginalize him. They offer excuses to those who want to exclude him from the debates, online polls, etc.

Calm, POLITE, well reasoned and factual efforts are our best way to go.

[wecandoit]

Maybe they will shorten the amount of time a candidate has to speak. What Ron Paul has to say will take more than few sentences to get across.

After thinking on it some more, what would serve their interests even better than excluding Ron Paul, is for Ron Paul to have to cancel himself, or have a really bad performance.

I hope RP is careful about where he goes, what he does, and what he eats the next 72 hours. Call me a paranoid conspiracy case, I think I'm being realistic. I know how the GOP and politics in general operate. Paul handed them their butt after the last debate, and it is within their power to assure that doesn't happen again.

My suspiscion is that it wasn't the head of the MI GOP's idea to start that "ban Paul" petition, it was most likely suggested to him to do so from higher up.

Since that backfired and they now know what they are up against, I expect their resolve to ban Paul has only strengthened, and their tatics have changed.

I'm trying to think like they think, and they have to get back to the total "ignore" startegy as fast as they can and demoralize the movement. With no more debates for a long time, they probably see this as their best last chance to drive a stake in the heart of the RP movement.

[theblatanttruth]

Hell hath no fury like a united Ron Paul movement scorned

[wecandoit]

Ok, a few points. Obviously it's a free country and I don't control you or anyone else (well, except my dogs, I guess). I don't think the RNC is even a sponsor of the event and would not have any control over it.

More importantly, the Paul campaign is very concerned with being tied to "spewing tirades" which contradict his own personal approach. The manner of these types of responses (via email, voicemail, web postings, etc.) are very detrimental to the campaign and help to marginalize him. They offer excuses to those who want to exclude him from the debates, online polls, etc.

Calm, POLITE, well reasoned and factual efforts are our best way to go.


I agree, it's not my intention to get people riled up and sending emails and making phone calls that will only hurt us.

Only to be prepared for what MAY happen, and to remind everyone emailing and phoning may be wasted effort that would better be used for things that I outlined in the original post, the things I feel we have to do to get RP elected.

I'll repeat them here, this is where our energy should go:

* Forget the polls, the media, and most likely the debates.
* Don't allow them to deflate our efforts or expectations.
* We have to be the press, inform everyone we can about RP, and what is happening.

* Make sure that those who want Ron Paul, will VOTE for Ron Paul, in the early primaries

*And then the biggest hurdle of all, do everything we can to prevent and expose voter fraud, to make sure votes for Ron Paul are tallied.

[maggiebott]

So you suggest we sit and do nothing? What kind of message does that send?

Does anyone have a phone number for CNN? I'm mad as hell...and you know the rest. I want accountability for these actions which may take more than calm and easy does it.

[maggiebott]

I don't think that hunkering down until the primaries is sound advice. The silent majority will not be heard if the polls are fixed. Without exposure on the debates Ron Paul will go nowhere.

I'm not about to sit tight and do nothing. The media is the only possible source for the likely couch potato to hear Ron Paul. Your methods make no sense...sorry

[wecandoit]

So you suggest we sit and do nothing? What kind of message does that send?

Does anyone have a phone number for CNN? I'm mad as hell...and you know the rest. I want accountability for these actions which may take more than calm and easy does it.


I'm most definetly NOT suggesting we do nothing. At this point there has been no official word confirming Paul will or won't be there. Only that he was supposed to be there as of a month ago, BEFORE the SC debate, and no offical word since. So there isn't much we can do about insuring he gets in Tuesday's debate, other than send annoying messages, which the RP campaign has asked us not to do.

We are a forminable force, who must be prepared to press on IF he is excluded.
We can still be VERY forminable force, with or without debates, IF, we understand how to channel our energies.

I have no inside source saying he will be excluded, I'm just using my own logic. I do very much hope I am wrong.

[wecandoit]

The media is the only possible source for the likely couch potato to hear Ron Paul. Your methods make no sense...sorry

As I said, I hope I am wrong, but if I'm right, then your words may be admitting defeat, and I wouldn't be prepared to do that, how about anyone else?

If he does gets excluded, then I suppose letting them have it could be a good thing. But "letting them have it" now, over the possibilty of excluding RP, would probably only hurt.

I'm sending out a warning to all that don't think we can't be effective if we are unable to force the media, the debates and the polls to be fair.

None of those things have been fair so far, and look how we have grown. We can't pin all our hopes on the idea of the "powers that be" treating us fairly. We have to hope the best, and prepare for the worst.

[lucky]

I kinda like spewing tirades myself.:D

[TheDuke]

Excluding him would fuel his campaign even more (money+supporters), so I don't think CNN will do something like that.

[zMtLlC]

It's still on the Calendar on his website. He's going to be there, he was already invited and everything. It's not like they could just refuse to let him in once he gets there.

[maggiebott]

Then why didn't c-span include his name this morning when listing candidates?

Updates on websites are only as valuable as the person controlling them. I have visited msnbc and cnn sites and they do not have Paul listed. In fact, they seem to be ignoring the debate instead of building it up.

[tnvoter]

Hell hath no fury like a united Ron Paul movement scorned

The GoP would seriously regret censoring a candidate, especially Ron Paul. The fall-back on whoever they nominate would be felt, and they most certainly would not win the next election. For someone who's been a loyal republican my whole life , I felt betrayed on the important issues: small government, small spending,securing the border, and no nation building. If they finish the betrayal, I'm going to do more than make phone calls.

I'm going to make sure every person I know that is voting in the next election knows they are voting for false promises, and censorship.

[kinginsomniac]

They kick him out of the debate we should storm the VLA and broadcast a signal across the whole microwave and UHF band. Imagine that, Ron Pauls voice coming out of every television, and every radio, probably a few cell phones as well. And the MSM can't cut it off. lol, that would kick ass.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the VLA?

Has anyone ever seen the made for TV movie Harrison Bergeron? (Yes, it's loosely based on the Vonnegut story of the same name.) It's not really relevant, but it's the first thing I thought about when I read this.

That said, I think something would've been posted on his campaign site by now if he had been excluded, unless he's excluded literally at the last moment.

[Kandilynn]

I've got my DVR set to record anything with the name Ron Paul in it. It searched out and has the debate recording already. Also, the information guide for the debate Tuesday night has his name on it. C-Span must have just forgotten to mention him.

[angelatc]

http://www.anselm.edu/news+and+events/college+news/news/05-02-07-debates.htm

Here's the list. There's an email contact on it, but I suggest we don't all email them lest we look like a band of roving loonies. Unless I am missing something in another thread, this is a rumor right now.

[maggiebott]

I'm sure one of us can call and post the results. This was posted May 2nd so I'm still not very secure with it being accurate.

[KingTheoden]

The debate is in only three days and thus far there is no indication Ron Paul is to be excluded. We have to be careful in our redress of grievances that we do not make incorrect accusations to those taking our calls or messages. Certainly, if they decide to deny Dr. Paul entry Tuesday night, we should feed in ourselves fires of the greatest kiln. However, we have to be respectful up to that moment because a great appeal of Ron Paul is his genuine kindness and gentlemanly behavior.

Dr. Paul will be in New York City Monday afternoon and I hope to see as many people as possible outside the Daily Show studios to support the Congressman!

[beermotor]

The GoP would seriously regret censoring a candidate, especially Ron Paul. The fall-back on whoever they nominate would be felt, and they most certainly would not win the next election. For someone who's been a loyal republican my whole life , I felt betrayed on the important issues: small government, small spending,securing the border, and no nation building. If they finish the betrayal, I'm going to do more than make phone calls.

I'm going to make sure every person I know that is voting in the next election knows they are voting for false promises, and censorship.

the Good Thing for us is that the Democrats are facing the same situation. Dissatisfaction is huge in this country right now. did you see the "Stop Funding the War" coffin at the Hillary fund raiser? :)

Let's not get too worried, folks - I'm sure things will be OK.

[angelatc]

I'm sure one of us can call and post the results. This was posted May 2nd so I'm still not very secure with it being accurate.

But there's been no retraction. Mike Gravel was originally not invited, and his people made a ruckus and got him included. This was the last update to their line-up.

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

They kick him out of the debate we should storm the VLA and broadcast a signal across the whole microwave and UHF band. Imagine that, Ron Pauls voice coming out of every television, and every radio, probably a few cell phones as well. And the MSM can't cut it off. lol, that would kick ass.

Who is John Galt? :D

Before we get too excited, is there ANY evidence that RP will not be included besides a couple of media sources leaving him off a list? CNN has been fair to RP, and it's my understanding that they control the debate. Am I wrong?

[angelatc]

I think CNN covers the debate, but the college actually hosts it.

[Bradley in DC]

So you suggest we sit and do nothing? What kind of message does that send?

Does anyone have a phone number for CNN? I'm mad as hell...and you know the rest. I want accountability for these actions which may take more than calm and easy does it.

Hi Maggie,

Personally, I like the passion and determination in your posts.:) That said, there is a world of difference between "spewing tirades" at organizations not even involved in the *rumored, unsubstantiated allegations* that Dr. Paul might not be included, and contacting affiliated organizations in a polite, responsible, inquiring way.

Just as the correct response choices to 9/11 were not "do nothing" and "bomb civilian populations to Kindom Come", we should indeed act--but in a manner that *helps* the campaign (ie, not "spewing tirades" that disparage all of us).

[HippyChimp]

I don't think he'll be excluded. I live in NH am going to the rally before the debate. There's a lot of Ron Paul supporters, both local and not so local, who are planning on attending. If they pulled a last minute stunt like that I think they'd be risking a riot.

[wecandoit]

I feel a little less confident that my prediction will come true affter reading some of these responses.

Nothing would make me happier to see Ron debating Tuesday night and have his best performance yet, providing us with some more good video clips and a real head of steam for what will be a long debate layoff.

You know I just trust these suckers about as far as I can spit, and Ron actually debating in a fair and open televised debate just seems to good to be true.

I guess if he does debate, my next concern is will they have a bigger, better trap set for him than they had in South Carolina? It appears they stacked the audience with pro Rudy supporters and asked him very pointed questions. I wonder what the makeup of the crowd will be this time? Wouldn't it be great to have 1/3 or even half the crowd be very vocal Paul supporters?

I hope I'm eating crow and watching RP kick some butt in the debate Tuesday night. My point of this thread was to hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

No matter what happens, remain vigilant.

[Bradley in DC]

I just got confirmation from the campaign that Dr. Paul is participating in the debate as scheduled. The rumor/misunderstanding is false.

Dr. Paul is also confirmed at the August 5th debate sponsored by ABC.

[wwycher]

We are the elephant in their living room. They can't get rid of us, if we keep speaking up. They have tried to ignore us and tried to shoo us out and tried to deny us. They will lose as long as we keep yelling Ron Paul and growing like we have been. I think Fred Thompson is mouse that we need to crush. Ron Paul is diametricly opposed to the neo-cons and we are opposed to MSM. We are here to tear down the propaganda machine, just like Ron Paul will tear down this bloated globalist government. Viva la Ron Paul Revolution.
Oh I had a good idea for a bumber sticker today,
"If you don't vote for Ron Paul, you're a Communist."
ronpaul2008.com

[angelatc]

I guess if he does debate, my next concern is will they have a bigger, better trap set for him than they had in South Carolina? It appears they stacked the audience with pro Rudy supporters and asked him very pointed questions. I wonder what the makeup of the crowd will be this time? Wouldn't it be great to have 1/3 or even half the crowd be very vocal Paul supporters?


New Hampshire's state motto is "Live Free Or Die," and they take great pride in not having a seat belt law. OTOH, the debate is at a liberal arts college.

I have faith that Dr Paul's message is strong and clear. If they try to "trap" him, all he can be is honest and that's his strong suit.

I worry more about their propensity to ignore him.

[lucky]

I predicted that the RP attacks would start by this weekend and looks like I may be wrong. Still predicting they have something up their sleeve for or during the debate. These are slime balls after all.

[Bradley in DC]

Reporters and other media are generally not "out to get us" or anything like that. If anything, I suggest that many of the media that are liberal, hate Bush and disagree with the war are looking for excuses to highlight Dr. Paul's opposition. Such stories show Bush's war support fracturing, etc.

Besides, on a basic level, the news media (especially TV) want good stories. "THE EXCHANGE" was good theater, good story--good for ratings! Yes, Dr. Paul will have to earn it, but we're getting there.

Ignoring him is the best way to kill the campaign. I get so frustrated with the stories "all Republicans supported the war in the debate" with "also participated Ron Paul" as his only mention.

[LibertyEagle]

I think Bradley's advice is very sound. There are all kinds of things happening right now that have Republicans up in arms. The big issue of the day is the amnesty legislation and from what I've read there are all kinds of other nasty things in there, like national id cards and requiring Americans to be approved through Homeland Security before they can get a job.

From a story just released by Accuracy in Media, Bush has done more than an about face on global warming and is signing the U.S. up for all kinds of nice little associated global taxes and regulation. None of this will sit well with conservatives.
http://www.aim.org/aim_column/5501_0_3_0_C/

If more information gets out there in the mainstream media about the true sorry state of our economy and how the numbers have been fudged, Ron Paul is going to be looking pretty good to a lot of people, since he's the only one who has spoken the truth about this and more.

We just need to hang in there and keep fighting like "wecandoit" says and try our best to stay above the fray and conduct ourselves in a manner that would make Dr. Paul proud.

[Minuteman2008]

This is silly. Both MSNBC and Fox allowed RP to be in the debates. There is no way that CNN would prevent him from being in the next debate. No way.

After the CNN debates it is anyone's guess what happens (when are network debates?).

[Bradley in DC]

This is silly. Both MSNBC and Fox allowed RP to be in the debates. There is no way that CNN would prevent him from being in the next debate. No way.

After the CNN debates it is anyone's guess what happens (when are network debates?).

I talked with the campaign. Dr. Paul is confirmed in the June 5th and Aug 5th debates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Presidential_Debates,_2008

Another factor the future debates will consider for candidates' "viability" will be money raised and cash on hand. Since Dr. Paul has only about a half-dozen paid staffers (compared with, say, the 120 staffers McCain has in NH alone), Dr. Paul will still have on hand most of his money raised in the next filing at the end of this month. All the more reason for us to get our maximum $2300 in as soon as we can--I'm more than half-way there.

[wecandoit]

I talked with the campaign. Dr. Paul is confirmed in the June 5th and Aug 5th debates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Presidential_Debates,_2008

Another factor the future debates will consider for candidates' "viability" will be money raised and cash on hand. Since Dr. Paul has only about a half-dozen paid staffers (compared with, say, the 120 staffers McCain has in NH alone), Dr. Paul will still have on hand most of his money raised in the next filing at the end of this month. All the more reason for us to get our maximum $2300 in as soon as we can--I'm more than half-way there.


Thanks a ton for calling and getting confirmation. I hope it doesn't change. We are now 72 hours away from probably the biggest event to date for Paul.

[Korey Kaczynski]

Here's a hint.

They like the $25,000 or so that he has to brib- er, spend, to be in the debate.

[a_texian]

Let's not forget that CNN's Wolf Blitzer's interview of Dr. Paul a couple of weeks ago was actually quite courteous towards Ron Paul. Since Mr. Blitzer is the Emcee of this debate, my bet is that it'll be nothing like the pitt-bull questioning of him that FNC purposely perpetrated.

Sure, there are likely to be pointed questions layed at his feet, but let's not forget that Dr. Paul is also known as "Dr. No" and is quite used to such detractors with confrontational questions. He's an ol' pro at drowning such cliche talking points with the FACTS!

I'm actually looking for him to (yet again) mop the floor with those fascist neocon idiots.

(... and I'm saying that as a Conservative Republican, by the way)

Almost all Americans - except for the choice few lemmings who dare not think for themselves - and who are politically savvy enough to even care to watch the debates will be able to see through any facade the MSM is likely to impose in or after the debate. They'll know the truth when they hear it.

;o)

Ed Boyd

[angelatc]

Here's a hint.

They like the $25,000 or so that he has to brib- er, spend, to be in the debate.

John Cox is a Republican who paid his $25,000 in South Carolina, -placed first in a South Carolina straw poll, and yet wasn't invited to the debate. He was ticked.

http://www.cox2008.com/cox/south_carolina_straw_polls_confound_experts/

[Bradley in DC]

John Cox is a Republican who paid his $25,000 in South Carolina, -placed first in a South Carolina straw poll, and yet wasn't invited to the debate. He was ticked.

http://www.cox2008.com/cox/south_carolina_straw_polls_confound_experts/

Too funny. I have nothing against him, but he really doesn't count. I love this from his website, "Cox is the consummate outsider. Having never held elected political office, he is still not without experience. " It isn't for lack of trying--he could never even win the Republican nomination in his home state for any office--not exactly demonstrating great political skills. Wealth can only buy so much (aside from 38 votes in a rural straw poll).

[ThePieSwindler]

Wow I love how that article takes 125 votes as "the will of the people". Is that article/site a joke or something? lol.

[angelatc]

No, he's a real guy. He is pretty smart, IIRC he's a lawyer and a CPA. He made his big money by leading the takeover of Jay's Potato Chips (a regional treat) and taking it from a big loss to a big profit in less than a year.

But he's never held political office, except for school board.

[denvervoipguru]

Maybe they will shorten the amount of time a candidate has to speak....

Dr. Paul is not always a wordsmith on stage but he is VERY GOOD at saying A LOT in a very short amount of time...I don't worry about in this regard.

[thuja]

Yes, he is always very dignified and gentlemanly while he explains his points of view. We should be also. It is one of the most important things about him, and separates him from the others,
There will be a dignified but effective way to counter this, if it happens.
This would be very depressing and upsetting, though. What would be their excuse to do so? Wouldn't this look very suspicious to all the new people who wish to vote for him? I am still not over the election that got us where we are now.
This is our last chance. Ron Paul has to win. Hire an engineer.

[AgentSmith]

This thread is a buzz kill :)

[Bradley in DC]

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Candidates+weigh+debate+risk %2c+rewards&articleId=44e80a9f-89eb-4da4-bcc4-9976a3b3fecf

. . . The format tonight and Tuesday will be quite different from the "quiz show" rotation used in recent presidential debates. Most questions will mark the start of a roughly five-minute segment. The initial answer will trigger follow-ups from Blitzer or the panelists. Those additional questions usually will go to other candidates . . .

The debates were open to every candidate who met the standards for an invitation. The debate's organizers knew that it was essential to allow a large field of contenders at this early stage of the campaign. Jim Gilmore and Mike Gravel were not on the original list, but made the cut after the debates had been postponed from the original April dates. The final groups were too large for the stage at Saint Anselm's Dana Center, which has hosted past debates.

Nevertheless, some hopefuls did not qualify. Republican John Cox fell short, as did virtual unknowns including Wrendo Godwin, Dr. Hugh Cort and Jerry Johnson. If every candidate registered with the Federal Election Commission had been invited, the stage would be more than twice as crowded.

The debates will be telecast live by WMUR and CNN. Streaming video will be available through all the sponsors' web sites. C-SPAN plans a rebroadcast of tonight's debate at 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. Monday. Comcast will feature the debates in its on-demand video library.