Breaking: Guantanamo has created more terrorists than it detained, says Obama

[Liberty Star]

Senate had just blocked move to close Guantanamo, is Obama about to spank these senators?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8062168.stm

[Deborah K]

I'd like to know where BO is getting his information. Where is the evidence that Gitmo created more terrorists? And why is BO invoking the Constitution now, when all he's done since his inauguration is subvert it??

For the Record: I am for closing Gitmo: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2133644#post2133644

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

I'd like to know where BO is getting his information. Where is the evidence that Gitmo created more terrorists? And why is BO invoking the Constitution now, when all he's done since his inauguration is subvert it??

For the Record: I am for closing Gitmo: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2133644#post2133644


Wasn't there an article written during the campaign season about how people were in Guantánamo but had no terrorist affiliations were socially networking with the more radically violent detainees?

[silverhawks]

If Obama thinks Gitmo causes terrorism, I wonder why he has approved a massive expansion of Bagram?

[t0rnado]

If someone detains you without cause, you're going to be pretty pissed off. The detainees probably want to attack the US now.

[Deborah K]

Wasn't there an article written during the campaign season about how people were in Guantánamo but had no terrorist affiliations were socially networking with the more radically violent detainees?

Not sure what you're asking. Are you saying that people, innocent of any terrorist behavior, where thrown into Gitmo and began socializing with the known terrorist types?

If there's an article out there that substantiates BO's claim, I'd be interested in reading it.

[Liberty Star]

I'd like to know where BO is getting his information. Where is the evidence that Gitmo created more terrorists? And why is BO invoking the Constitution now, when all he's done since his inauguration is subvert it??

For the Record: I am for closing Gitmo: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2133644#post2133644




Thursday, 21 May 2009 16:32 UK
Guantanamo 'weakens US security'

The US prison camp at Guantanamo Bay has weakened national security and served as a rallying call for enemies, President Barack Obama has said.

He was speaking at the US National Archives, where the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights are kept.

Could be the location where he spoke LOL

But seriously, don't know the answer.





If Obama thinks Gitmo causes terrorism, I wonder why he has approved a massive expansion of Bagram?


Good question.
I suspect he will reverse his Afghan warring policy after wasting many unnecessary lives and dollars.

[Icymudpuppy]

Not sure what you're asking. Are you saying that people, innocent of any terrorist behavior, where thrown into Gitmo and began socializing with the known terrorist types?

If there's an article out there that substantiates BO's claim, I'd be interested in reading it.

I'm reminded of a quote from Shawshank Redemption:

"Y'know, before I came here I was straight as an arrow. I had to go to prison to become a crook."

Change a few words...

"y'know, before I came here I was straight as an arrow, I had to go to gitmo to become a terrorist."

[Deborah K]

I'm reminded of a quote from Shawshank Redemption:

"Y'know, before I came here I was straight as an arrow. I had to go to prison to become a crook."

Change a few words...

"y'know, before I came here I was straight as an arrow, I had to go to gitmo to become a terrorist."

Love the movie. But where's the evidence?

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

Hi,

Something that changed my perception of Guantánamo Bay was a broadcast of the radio program This American Life (Episode 310: Habeas Schmabeas (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1123) -- episode available, freely streamed online). Below is an excerpt from Act One.There's No U.S. in Habeas.:


HITT: As best as we can tell, Badr Zaman Badr and his brother were imprisoned in Guantanamo for three
years for telling a joke. Actually, for telling two jokes. They ran a satire magazine in Pakistan that poked fun
at corrupt clerics. Sort of the Pashtu edition of “The Onion.” The first joke that got them into trouble was
when they published a poem about a politician called “I Am Glad to be a Leader.” Here’s Badr:
BADR: Let me translate a few lines for you.
HITT: Sure.
BADR: “Before, I was so thin and weak. Now, I have big stomach.” Uh, stuff like that. (Laughs)
HITT: So, the guy with the big stomach called up Badr and his brother. He threatened them, and, as best as
they can tell, told authorities that they were linked to Al Qaeda, which landed them in Guantanamo, and
which leads us to the second joke. This one was in an issue of Badr’s magazine that came out in the ‘90’s,
after our government set a $5 million reward for Osama bin Laden. Badr’s magazine issued its own bounty
for the capture of an American leader.
BADR: President Bill Clinton, giving the details of how to identify that he has blue eyes, and he’s cleanshaven,
and the most important thing is the recent scandal going on between Clinton and Monica Lewinsky.
(Laughs) Yeah. If someone finds that man, he will be rewarded 5 million Afghani, that’s Afghanistan
currency, which was equal to $113 at that time. That’s impossible (unintelligible, laughing.)
HITT: In Guantanamo, were you interrogated about your Clinton satire?
BADR: Exactly. They were serious, if we really wanted to kill President Clinton, and we said “No” that it
was only satire, and only a way of expression. It’s allowed, it’s protected, in your country, in American law.”
HITT: How many times were you interrogated…about the Clinton article?
BADR: Many times, many times. Me and my brother, each one of us, have been interrogated more than
150 times.
HITT: So after hearing the punch line explained 150 times, we finally got the joke, and sent Badr and his
brother home. It had been three years since the Pakistani army surrounded their house in Peshawar, came
into their living room which is lined with wall-to-wall bookcases, and arrested them. That’s Badr’s version of
why we jailed him; here’s President Bush’s:
PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: These are people that got scooped off a battlefield, attempting to kill U.S.
troops. And, uh, I want to make sure before they’re released that they don’t come back to kill again.
HITT: The administration has never wavered on this point. Here’s Dick Cheney on Guantanamo:
VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: The people that are there are people we picked up on a battlefield
primarily in Afghanistan. They’re terrorists. They’re bomb makers, they’re facilitators of terror, they’re
members of Al Qaeda, the Taliban.
HITT: We’re told over and over that these prisoners are so terrible, that we need an offshore facility, away
from U.S. laws, to hold them. But then there’s Badr, and every day more stories like his are coming out.
And they raised the question: Is Guantanamo a campful of terrorists, or a campful of mistakes? In a new
study by Seton Hall’s law school, researchers simply went to the trouble of reading the 517 Guantanamo
case files released by the Pentagon. Here’s what they found:
Only 5% of our detainees at Guantanamo were “scooped up” by American troops, on the battlefield or
anywhere else. Five percent. The rest? We never saw them fighting.
And here’s something else: Only 8% of the detainees in Guantanamo are classified by the Pentagon as Al
Qaeda fighters. In fact, Michael Donleavy, head of interrogations at Guantanamo, complained in 2002 that
he was receiving too many “Mickey Mouse” prisoners.
In 2004, the New York Times did a huge investigation, interviewing dozens of high level military intelligence
and law enforcement officials in the US, Europe and the Middle East. There was a surprising consensus:
that out of nearly 600 men at Guantanamo, the number who could give us useful information about Al
Qaeda was “only a relative handful.” Some put the number at about a dozen. Others more than two dozen.

3
The Seton Hall study might help explain that; it revealed that 86% of the detainees were handed over to us
by Pakistan or the Northern Alliance. And some were handed over to us by a new method – here’s Badr.
BADR: Actually, in our interrogation, the American interrogators have been telling us they have paid a lot of
money to those who handed over us to Americans.
HUTSON: The problem was, we were offering bounties, you know, $5,000 or $10,000 (Al Qaeda brought
more than Taliban did) and so “ok, fine, here’s your money” and they take them to Gitmo.
HITT: That’s Rear Admiral John Hutson, the Navy’s top lawyer. He was judge advocate general until 2000.
He says, essentially we bought Badr, and a whole lot of other prisoners.
HUTSON: And when you look at the economy at that part of the world, you know, that really is kind of a
king’s ransom.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Omphfullas Zamboni

[iddo]

Where is the evidence that Gitmo created more terrorists?

"One carefully studied case is that of Abdallah al-Ajmi, who was locked up in Guantanamo on the charge of "engaging in two or three fire fights with the Northern Alliance." He ended up in Afghanistan after having failed to reach Chechnya to fight against the Russians. After four years of brutal treatment in Guantanamo, he was returned to Kuwait. He later found his way to Iraq and, in March 2008, drove a bomb-laden truck into an Iraqi military compound, killing himself and 13 soldiers -- "the single most heinous act of violence committed by a former Guantanamo detainee," according to the Washington Post, and according to his lawyer, the direct result of his abusive imprisonment." (link1 (http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/19-7), link2 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/21/AR2009022101234.html))

[Icymudpuppy]

Love the movie. But where's the evidence?

Who needs evidence. It's what I would do. I have made some disparaging remarks about the leadership of Israel, as have many others on this board.

But right now, I have no intentions of carrying out or funding violent acts against Israel.

Let's say that Israel offers a ransom of $2 million for anyone who turns in an anti-israeli, and my neighbor turns me in and cites my post on the ronpaulforums as evidence of my status as an anti-israeli, and collects a cool 2mil.

The local police arrest me and give me to the Israeli Army who takes me to a remote site in the Mediterranean sea and holds me for three years without trial, tortures me to get information from me, and throws me in with a bunch of hardcore Palestinian Liberation operatives.

After that kind of treatment, you can bet that I will be joining the PLA, and so will my brother, father, and children because we will all want revenge on Israel but first they will probably terrorize my neighbor who turned me in.

What would you and your family do if you were imprisoned for exercising free speech?

[zade]

You guys have to learn to give credit where credit is due. Obama makes a responsible and concientious remark about the futility of torture, and yet, just because it's him, many of you refuse to show positive feedback. So we get lines like "wheres the evidence?" when we all know if Ron Paul had said it, it would've been immediately acceptable.

[Deborah K]

You guys have to learn to give credit where credit is due. Obama makes a responsible and concientious remark about the futility of torture, and yet, just because it's him, many of you refuse to show positive feedback. So we get lines like "wheres the evidence?" when we all know if Ron Paul had said it, it would've been immediately acceptable.

Don't misunderstand me. I need evidence because it is a huge accusation to make and shouldn't be made unless it can be backed up. I would expect Dr. Paul to do the same. I don't agree with RP on everything, as most of us don't, so you can stop with the koolaid drinking analogy of RP supporters.

Asking for evidence doesn't necessarily mean that I don't think it's true. But if BO is going to make such an extreme allegation, he damned well better be able to back it up, don't cha think?

[iddo]

That's your idea of an extreme allegation?

[Deborah K]

That's your idea of an extreme allegation?

Gitmo created MORE terrorists than it detained

You don't find that to be extreme? Think about the ramifications if it is true.

[Objectivist]

Created more? Oh, that's why he sent more troops to Afghanistan.

Liberal Progressive Democrats that infringe on the rights of the People create more Revolutionaries than anyone else.

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

America's Prison for Terrorists Often Held the Wrong Men (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/detainees/story/38773.html)

[Objectivist]

America's Prison for Terrorists Often Held the Wrong Men (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/detainees/story/38773.html)

Men have been imprisoned wrongly since the beginning of time.