HR1207 Will Hurt America.

[Patriot123]

So Ron Paul's HR1207 bill would effectively audit the federal reserve. With that, all of the Feds actions would be wide out in the open - not just for Congress, but for the public. The same people who put Barack Obama into office. This means you would not only have us, the freedom movement, with that information, but them. Them being the liberals, "progressives," the socialists, communists, uneducated masses, whatever you'd like to call them. The majority of America. We've strayed so far away from a Republic that we can now more or less be considered a Democracy - or at least nearly. What does this mean? This means that you're going to have the Americans who know zero coming in and saying things like, "why is the federal reserve lending/borrowing all this money? We should use it to expand government power even more by creating more welfare programs." And because we're a quasi-Democracy, thanks to Jackson, you'll have tyranny of the majority over the minority - minority being us, and majority being the liberals and socialists of America. I think the opponents of this bill are right when they argue that the federal reserve was made private and secret so that it wouldn't have to endure political pressure, which could influence our monetary system either for the better, or more than likely for the worse.
If we were a Republic, I would say this bill would be a great move forward. We would have elected representatives making decisions based on the information provided from the audits. In a Democracy, however, like right now, you'll have Americans flipping out and intervening. They won't want to destroy the Fed, I think, but rather use the funds differently - ie for their free health care and welfare state :rolleyes: So the bill can very well backfire, with the uneducated masses of America using the bill against what we want - the restoration of America as it used to be.

So in short, I think if HR1207 gets passed, it'll be disastrous. We need to cut back on our budget and return to a Constitutional Republic before we start screwing with the mechanics of what's at least barely keeping this country afloat, now. Any thoughts?

[torchbearer]

What you mean is... if HR1207 passes, the Federal Reserve will hurt americans as retribution.

[PaulaGem]

If we start watching the fox who is guarding the chickencoop, before too long we'll realize where all those missing chickens have gone.

[Patriot123]

No. I'm saying that the masses of America, with the information they'll get, will hurt America as a result. The Federal Reserve was made quote on quote "secret" so that it wouldn't be manipulated by political pressure. So that it could operate without politics involved. If the general public gets a hold of what's going on in the federal reserve, they'll manipulate the system. They'll add the Federal Reserve into the equation of mob rule, and pretty soon you'll have funds meant for one thing going to the welfare program, and whatever else. In short, the American people can't be trusted with this kind of information. If we had a true Republican system like we had, this would be great. But we don't anymore, and thus you'll only be giving more Democracy to the public, which will only serve to corrode the country even more, like what happened to Rome.

Our country operates in a very delicate way. If you audit the Federal Reserve, you'll off-set that delicateness. You'll throw the entire system off. If you want to change things, you need to start small, and work your way up. Auditing the federal reserve is not the right way to go - you'll only have even more of an economic mess. You need to begin with returning America to a Republic.

[torchbearer]

No. I'm saying that the masses of America, with the information they'll get, will hurt America as a result. The Federal Reserve was made quote on quote "secret" so that it wouldn't be manipulated by political pressure. So that it could operate without politics involved. If the general public gets a hold of what's going on in the federal reserve, they'll manipulate the system. They'll add the Federal Reserve into the equation of mob rule, and pretty soon you'll have funds meant for one thing going to the welfare program, and whatever else. In short, the American people can't be trusted with this kind of information. If we had a true Republican system like we had, this would be great. But we don't anymore, and thus you'll only be giving more Democracy to the public, which will only serve to corrode the country even more, like what happened to Rome.

let's keep people ignorant. that has worked out well so far.

[stag15]

No. I'm saying that the masses of America, with the information they'll get, will hurt America as a result. The Federal Reserve was made quote on quote "secret" so that it wouldn't be manipulated by political pressure. So that it could operate without politics involved. If the general public gets a hold of what's going on in the federal reserve, they'll manipulate the system. They'll add the Federal Reserve into the equation of mob rule, and pretty soon you'll have funds meant for one thing going to the welfare program, and whatever else. In short, the American people can't be trusted with this kind of information. If we had a true Republican system like we had, this would be great. But we don't anymore, and thus you'll only be giving more Democracy to the public, which will only serve to corrode the country even more, like what happened to Rome.

Isn't the federal reserve already spending money on stupid stuff?

[Patriot123]

Our country operates in a very delicate way. If you audit the Federal Reserve, you'll off-set that delicateness. You'll throw the entire system off. If you want to change things, you need to start small, and work your way up. Auditing the federal reserve is not the right way to go - you'll only have even more of an economic mess. You need to begin with returning America to a Republic.
Read the edit, please.

[PaulaGem]

No. I'm saying that the masses of America, with the information they'll get, will hurt America as a result. The Federal Reserve was made quote on quote "secret" so that it wouldn't be manipulated by political pressure. So that it could operate without politics involved. If the general public gets a hold of what's going on in the federal reserve, they'll manipulate the system. They'll add the Federal Reserve into the equation of mob rule, and pretty soon you'll have funds meant for one thing going to the welfare program, and whatever else. In short, the American people can't be trusted with this kind of information. If we had a true Republican system like we had, this would be great. But we don't anymore, and thus you'll only be giving more Democracy to the public, which will only serve to corrode the country even more, like what happened to Rome.

Our country operates in a very delicate way. If you audit the Federal Reserve, you'll off-set that delicateness. You'll throw the entire system off. If you want to change things, you need to start small, and work your way up. Auditing the federal reserve is not the right way to go - you'll only have even more of an economic mess. You need to begin with returning America to a Republic.

You are aware that the Fed has been used to engineer every economic crisis since its inception, aren't you?

Individual welfare recipients could never consume capital at the rate it is being absorbed by the Fed.

If the Fed is debunked before the middle class becomes extinct, this won't happen, so the sooner the better.

[Dr.3D]

No. I'm saying that the masses of America, with the information they'll get, will hurt America as a result. The Federal Reserve was made quote on quote "secret" so that it wouldn't be manipulated by political pressure. So that it could operate without politics involved. If the general public gets a hold of what's going on in the federal reserve, they'll manipulate the system. They'll add the Federal Reserve into the equation of mob rule, and pretty soon you'll have funds meant for one thing going to the welfare program, and whatever else. In short, the American people can't be trusted with this kind of information. If we had a true Republican system like we had, this would be great. But we don't anymore, and thus you'll only be giving more Democracy to the public, which will only serve to corrode the country even more, like what happened to Rome.

Our country operates in a very delicate way. If you audit the Federal Reserve, you'll off-set that delicateness. You'll throw the entire system off. If you want to change things, you need to start small, and work your way up. Auditing the federal reserve is not the right way to go - you'll only have even more of an economic mess. You need to begin with returning America to a Republic.

Have you ever seen any organization that didn't involve politics? There is no way the Federal Reserve can avoid politics. It's just a matter of if we want to trust the politics of the Federal Reserve or perhaps at least make the information available to Congress and let them sort out the Federal Reserve politics.

[RSLudlum]

What you mean is... if HR1207 passes, the Federal Reserve will hurt americans as retribution.


Bernanke = Biddle 2.0? ;)

[anaconda]

No. I'm saying that the masses of America, with the information they'll get, will hurt America as a result. The Federal Reserve was made quote on quote "secret" so that it wouldn't be manipulated by political pressure. So that it could operate without politics involved. If the general public gets a hold of what's going on in the federal reserve, they'll manipulate the system. They'll add the Federal Reserve into the equation of mob rule, and pretty soon you'll have funds meant for one thing going to the welfare program, and whatever else. In short, the American people can't be trusted with this kind of information. If we had a true Republican system like we had, this would be great. But we don't anymore, and thus you'll only be giving more Democracy to the public, which will only serve to corrode the country even more, like what happened to Rome.

Our country operates in a very delicate way. If you audit the Federal Reserve, you'll off-set that delicateness. You'll throw the entire system off. If you want to change things, you need to start small, and work your way up. Auditing the federal reserve is not the right way to go - you'll only have even more of an economic mess. You need to begin with returning America to a Republic.

The Fed simply isn't necessary. And they bilk the wealth out of the middle class. You could simply build in pre-determined rules for adjusting the money supply so that it simply goes on autopilot. This has been advocated by many economists. Crippling the Fed's ability to print money does not suddenly make extra money for welfare programs(I'm not sure I get your point).

[dealerjim]

You are aware that the Fed has been used to engineer every economic crisis since its inception, aren't you?

Individual welfare recipients could never consume capital at the rate it is being absorbed by the Fed.

If the Fed is debunked before the middle class becomes extinct, this won't happen, so the sooner the better.
I couldn't have said it any better. We all know they're politically motivated behind the scenes.

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

Video showing how the Federal Reserve is not insulated from political pressure:
YouTube - Greenspan's stock and real estate bubbles (2006 intrvw.) 1/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW1SYKanO-Y)

[mellamojuana]

It might be nice for a few more people to know there is such a monstrosity as the Federal Reserve Bank, and for us to have a chance to tell them about it. Right now, many people are glassy-eyed at the mere mention of "economics" etc. But if an audit of the Fed should bring it into the limelight of MSM, there might be a few questions and a few eyebrows raised.

It is an interesting concept that paper that appears to be valuable (ie money) is less valuable when there's too much of it being tossed around. The fact that there is a bank that spawns green paper at will, and that said bank's secretive activities could be brought to light are a starting point for teaching those who do not understand. More good than harm, surely. I do hope!

[shenlu54]

So,the next step is "end the fed",don't let anyone have the power to print money,including congress!

[anaconda]

So,the next step is "end the fed",don't let anyone have the power to print money,including congress!

Congress is empowered in the Constitution to "coin money."

[Dr.3D]

//

[Dr.3D]

Congress is empowered in the Constitution to "coin money."

Yeah, but for some silly reason, they decided to let somebody else use a printing press instead of a minting press. And it worked so well, they got all of the other countries on the planet to do the same thing. :rolleyes:

[Dr.3D]

//

[Dr.3D]

//

Multiple postings.

[nayjevin]

Congress is empowered in the Constitution to "coin money."

coins. :)

[Bossobass]

Shill: "The Fed can't be audited because it has to remain politically pure".

What a crock of shit.

The Fed has lent or guaranteed $9 trillion in off balance sheet money. OUR FUCKING MONEY.

Congress: "So, to whom did you lend this money?"
Bernanke: "I'm not gonna answer that question."
Congress: "So, to whom did you make guarantees, and for what amounts?"
Bernanke: "I don't have to tell you that."
Congress: "Well, what were the terms of the loans?"
Bernanke: "I can't disclose that information."
Congress: "What do you mean? How could you be exempt from explaining the details of these trillions of dollars of missing funds?"
Bernanke: You'll have to take that up amongst yourselves, because Congress gave us that power when it enacted The Federal Reserve Act."

Wake the fuck up, will ya?

Bosso

[Dr.3D]

Shill: "The Fed can't be audited because it has to remain politically pure".

What a crock of shit.

The Fed has lent or guaranteed $9 trillion in off balance sheet money. OUR FUCKING MONEY.

Congress: "So, to whom did you lend this money?"
Bernanke: "I'm not gonna answer that question."
Congress: "So, to whom did you make guarantees, and for what amounts?"
Bernanke: "I don't have to tell you that."
Congress: "Well, what were the terms of the loans?"
Bernanke: "I can't disclose that information."
Congress: "What do you mean? How could you be exempt from explaining the details of these trillions of dollars of missing funds?"
Bernanke: You'll have to take that up amongst yourselves, because Congress gave us that power when it enacted The Federal Reserve Act."

Wake the fuck up, will ya?

Bosso

LOL.... sounds a lot like another kind of story or perhaps a parallel.

Farmer: "So where did the chickens go from the chicken coop?"
Fox: "I'm not gonna answer that question."
Farmer: So, to whom did you give the keys to the hen house and how many chickens did they take?"
Fox: "I don't have to tell you that."
Farmer: "Well, will I ever get my chickens back?"
Fox: "I can't disclose that information."
Farmer: "What do you mean? How could you be exempt from explaining the details of all of the missing chickens?"
Fox: "You'll have to think about that yourself, because you gave me the keys to the hen house."

[HOLLYWOOD]

BRAVO! BRAVO!

Could someone please forward this quote to 535 Congress Critters and all the BO minions at the executive branch.

Send it to every congressman that hasn't co-sponsored HR 1207!

When I get a chance, I will too~!


Shill: "The Fed can't be audited because it has to remain politically pure".

What a crock of shit.

The Fed has lent or guaranteed $9 trillion in off balance sheet money. OUR FUCKING MONEY.

Congress: "So, to whom did you lend this money?"
Bernanke: "I'm not gonna answer that question."
Congress: "So, to whom did you make guarantees, and for what amounts?"
Bernanke: "I don't have to tell you that."
Congress: "Well, what were the terms of the loans?"
Bernanke: "I can't disclose that information."
Congress: "What do you mean? How could you be exempt from explaining the details of these trillions of dollars of missing funds?"
Bernanke: You'll have to take that up amongst yourselves, because Congress gave us that power when it enacted The Federal Reserve Act."

Wake the fuck up, will ya?

Bosso

[GunnyFreedom]

wow. just. wow.

[PaulaGem]

BRAVO! BRAVO!

Could someone please forward this quote to 535 Congress Critters and all the BO minions at the executive branch.

Send it to every congressman that hasn't co-sponsored HR 1207!

When I get a chance, I will too~!

I think the chicken coop story should go with it too LOL!

[malkusm]

Anyone who uses the argument that "the Fed is secretive and private because they have to remain free of political influence!" assumes that they are currently free of political influence.

Most people who use this argument assume that the two major parties have vastly different goals for our nation, and that opening the Fed to an audit would cause wild swings in monetary policy leading to an unstable system.

My question is: Are there really vast differences in the two parties and their goals in monetary policy? Or, perhaps, do both parties want inflation and increased consumer spending, with no regard for long-run outcomes? You see...the system is politically influenced already. It benefits ALL the politicians to be in office for an economic boom - not just one side.

[sirellyn]

No. I'm saying that the masses of America, with the information they'll get, will hurt America as a result. The Federal Reserve was made quote on quote "secret" so that it wouldn't be manipulated by political pressure. So that it could operate without politics involved. If the general public gets a hold of what's going on in the federal reserve, they'll manipulate the system. They'll add the Federal Reserve into the equation of mob rule, and pretty soon you'll have funds meant for one thing going to the welfare program, and whatever else. In short, the American people can't be trusted with this kind of information. If we had a true Republican system like we had, this would be great. But we don't anymore, and thus you'll only be giving more Democracy to the public, which will only serve to corrode the country even more, like what happened to Rome.

Our country operates in a very delicate way. If you audit the Federal Reserve, you'll off-set that delicateness. You'll throw the entire system off. If you want to change things, you need to start small, and work your way up. Auditing the federal reserve is not the right way to go - you'll only have even more of an economic mess. You need to begin with returning America to a Republic.

Your argument is that people will decide on social programs or bad expenditures. The point of a political process, is that public can be very wrong in their decisions. But allowing them to make bad decisions allows them to suffer and learn from them as well.

When you don't know what decisions are being made but you suffer the consequences, you have no idea what was originally so wrong or how to fix it.

For example if the Fed was exposed and "The People's Reserve" was then formed (not much better I know..) They may decide to put all the money to socialized healthcare. There isn't enough money to pay for this of course so they could decide to print more.

But they would see the effects of printing that much more money. And they would know where it went to.

Some would want to see the experiment continue. And may even be ok with high inflation for the sake of some of their perks. Most would not, and the cause of the unease would be very apparent.

And thats the point. Education. Know the mistakes so if you do make them you can learn from them.

If you trust a black box, you have no idea if it's even working in the first place.

[acptulsa]

No. I'm saying that the masses of America, with the information they'll get, will hurt America as a result. The Federal Reserve was made quote on quote "secret" so that it wouldn't be manipulated by political pressure. So that it could operate without politics involved. If the general public gets a hold of what's going on in the federal reserve, they'll manipulate the system. They'll add the Federal Reserve into the equation of mob rule, and pretty soon you'll have funds meant for one thing going to the welfare program, and whatever else. In short, the American people can't be trusted with this kind of information.


One, the system is already gamed. Two, if the American people can't be trusted with the information, then who can? Know any benevolent dictators who can actually be depended upon?

[Anti Federalist]

Shill: "The Fed can't be audited because it has to remain politically pure".

What a crock of shit.

The Fed has lent or guaranteed $9 trillion in off balance sheet money. OUR FUCKING MONEY.

Congress: "So, to whom did you lend this money?"
Bernanke: "I'm not gonna answer that question."
Congress: "So, to whom did you make guarantees, and for what amounts?"
Bernanke: "I don't have to tell you that."
Congress: "Well, what were the terms of the loans?"
Bernanke: "I can't disclose that information."
Congress: "What do you mean? How could you be exempt from explaining the details of these trillions of dollars of missing funds?"
Bernanke: You'll have to take that up amongst yourselves, because Congress gave us that power when it enacted The Federal Reserve Act."

Wake the fuck up, will ya?

Bosso

My name is Anti Federalist and I endorse this message. :D

[Dr.3D]

I think the chicken coop story should go with it too LOL!

Thanks PaulaGem, I'm gladdened at least somebody found some humor in it :D