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View Full Version : Thomas Paine Open Letter To The President




Objectivist
05-20-2009, 03:01 AM
YouTube - Open Letter to President Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UIomrdvDUQ)

idiom
05-20-2009, 03:15 AM
The economy *might* rebound....

This guy is such a blowhard.

Warrior_of_Freedom
05-20-2009, 04:51 AM
The economy *might* rebound....

This guy is such a blowhard.

You *might* be right.

Objectivist
05-20-2009, 12:57 PM
The economy *might* rebound....

This guy is such a blowhard.

Why do you think that is an impossibility? With the government taking even more revenue out of the private sector it could be a long time or never for peoples standard of living to recover. If you think about it this is the perfect time to implement the socialist agenda, even though I don't agree with it taking over while the economy is at the bottom or heading down offers them the opportunity to claim victory at the slightest improvement that may come. The "Oh look at all the GOOD WE DID!"mentality of socialists coming soon to a town near you.

On a side note, there is a group going around the country looking for every project that was built during FDRs reign, so they can place historic markers and plaques dedicating the site as one of the great accomplishments of the New Deal. Wonder why they're doing that? Propaganda.

heavenlyboy34
05-20-2009, 02:14 PM
I don't think the real Paine would have been so concerned about "the World". There's some good stuff here, but many places stick to mainstream Statist political philosophy. This was disappointing, considering the other vids of his I've seen.

Objectivist
05-20-2009, 02:15 PM
I don't think the real Paine would have been so concerned about "the World". There's some good stuff here, but many places stick to mainstream Statist political philosophy. This was disappointing, considering the other vids of his I've seen.

I just posted it for everyone to see as it came up on my YouTube page.

travisAlbert
05-20-2009, 05:58 PM
This blowhard has done several videos in which he claims to be "Thomas Paine." He has made it very clear in all of his videos that he has no earthly idea who Thomas Paine was and the nature of his politics. This particular video does not have as much to complain about.

I encourage all of you to watch the other videos this man has done. Just type in Thomas Paine on youtube, and look for that guy. It is a shame that his videos are some of the first to pop up. The other videos are primarily filled with anti-immigrant rhetoric, nationalism, attacks on multiculturalism, and in one video he demands a return of a draft or at least manditory military service for two years I believe. I am very well read on Thomas Paine. I just completed a fifty-five page seminar about the reasons why Thomas Paine was angered about the political and social developments of the United States after the American Revolution, focusing on his conflicts with the Federal Faction, while he continued to claim to be a federalist and actually supported many federalist policies (Strong national government, national bank, etc). Please read Paine and shut this guy down. He is an embarrassment.

In previous videos, the man stated that our founding fathers never meant for the separation of church and state to exist. Perhaps Patrick Henry or Samuel Adams would have agreed, but certainly not Thomas Paine. In "Age of Reason," Thomas Paine stated that "All ntational institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." Later he says "The adulterous connection of church and state, wherever it had taken place, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, had so effectually prohibited by pains and penalties, every discussion upon established creeds, and upon first principles of religion, that until the system of government should be changed, those subjects could not be brought fairly and openly before the world; but that whenever this should be done, a revolution in the system of religion would follow." Paine was an outspoken Deist, and when he returned to the United States from his imprisonment in the French Revolution, he became the whipping boy for the people who supported a strong connection between church and state. He was branded an Atheist, and when he traveled, he was often greeted with posters around the towns depicting his caracture in hell, with a warning about an infidel being in the area.

In other videos he attacks illegal immigration and multiculturalism. Thomas Paine was himself a poor immigrant. Perhaps his immigration was legit because he was white. Regardless of his immigrant status, Thomas Paine considered himself to be a citizen of the world, and wrote about having global revolutions for a world confederation of republics. I would also like to add in my own personal attacks against this man's attacks on multiculturalism in other videos that he has done. First of all, in a free country, I should be able to wear what I want, eat what I want, and speak whatever language I choose to speak. No government bureaucrat should have the power to force me to act a certain way at the barrel of a gun. Also, a country does not have to have a solidified culture to exist, when the principles of the nation are freedom and liberty. Allow America to have a culture of loving liberty.

Now to address this video specifically. In the introduction of this man's speech, he says that he has respect for the office of the presidency. Thomas Paine, however, did not have respect for the office of the presidency. In a letter that he wrote to George Washington, he stated that “I have always been opposed to the mode of refining government up to an individual, or what is called a single executive. Such a man will always be the chief of a party. A plurality is far better. It combines the mass of a nation better together; and besides this, it is necessary to the manly mind of a republic that it loses the debasing idea of obeying an individual." Around that same time, in a letter that he wrote in regards to the destruction of the 1793 French Constitution, Paine stated that "“An individual by election is almost as bad as the hereditary system, except that there is always a better chance of not having an idiot. But he will never be anything more than a chief of a party and none but those of that party will have access to him. He will have no person to consult with of a standing equal with himself, and consequently be deprived of the advantages arising from equal discussion. Those whom he admits in consultation will be ministers of his own appointment, who, if they displease by their advice, must expect to be dismissed.” It is clear that Paine did not respect the office of the president.

This guy also continually attacks welfare. Although I personally agree with the man to an extent, Thomas Paine did not. His very first major work in England was an article about economic justice for excise officers. Most notably, Paine makes his position on welfare known in "Agrarian Justice." Paine argues multiple ideas in this pamphlet. Firstly, he makes the case that originally, all men were entitled to occupy the earth but no man was entitled to own it. This changed, however, when the labor of a man was tied to the earth and he would be unable to reap the fruits of his labor, but nevertheless, “Man did not make the earth, and, though he had a natural right to occupy it, he had no right to locate as his property in perpetuity any part of it; neither did the creator of the earth open a land-office, from whence the first title-deeds should issue." Paine also made the claim that "The great mass of the poor in all countries are become an hereditary race, and it is next to impossible for them to get out of that state by themselves." Because man had no natural right to own land, and poverty was arising with the expansion and development of civilization, the men who benefitted from private property OWED something to those who did not. Here are two quotes that may supplement that "I care not how affluent some may be, provided that none be miserable in consequence of it." "It is not charity but a right, not bounty but justice, that I am pleading for." In Agrarian Justice, Paine helped found the Geo-Libertarian movement and set up a system of social security.

I think that the blowhard pretending to be Thomas Paine has every right to say what he wants, but it is almost a crime what he is doing to the history of Thomas Paine! Through the several videos that he has recorded, he has made it very clear that he is entirely unread on Paine's great works. He needs to quit embarrassing conservatives and distorting history.

travisAlbert
05-20-2009, 06:01 PM
Dammit I want to beat the shit out of that guy. He is not Thomas Paine! Every historian of the American Revolution, French Revolution, Early United States, Federalism, etc, needs to be up in arms over what this man is doing to history! He has effectively distorted the image that millions of American have about the greatest and least covered Revolutionary. Fuck!

Objectivist
05-20-2009, 06:01 PM
I think his self proclaimed association is based on the idea of "Common Sense", something lacking in the current political arena.

travisAlbert
05-20-2009, 06:06 PM
I think his self proclaimed association is based on the idea of "Common Sense", something lacking in the current political arena.

It doesn't matter. The man can drop the phrase Common Sense all he wants, even though it brings up the image of Thomas Paine. Hell, the man can even quote "Common Sense" if he wanted. He should not claim to be reanimated corpse Thomas Paine and spout out a bunch of politics that would make Paine sick.

Reason
05-20-2009, 06:08 PM
this guy is a xenophobic douche

Objectivist
05-20-2009, 06:12 PM
It doesn't matter. The man can drop the phrase Common Sense all he wants, even though it brings up the image of Thomas Paine. Hell, the man can even quote "Common Sense" if he wanted. He should not claim to be reanimated corpse Thomas Paine and spout out a bunch of politics that would make Paine sick.

Interesting thought if that is what he was/is really trying to do.

Reason
05-20-2009, 06:14 PM
the neoconish backlash trying to label obama as an apologist is about as anti ron paul as it gets

you can't support ron paul's position of blowback and call obama an apologist for saying he will work to stop american arrogance