*UTUBE* Michael Scheuer vs. Israeli Shill on Glenn Beck 5/18/09

[nbruno322]

"A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification."

George Washington Farewell Address

"The nation which indulges toward another habitual hatred or habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interests."

George Washington


YouTube - Netanyahu Believes He's On Earth To Prevent A Second Holocaust (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbUEurZnZV8)

[ClayTrainor]

I'm gonna watch this a little later.

Does Michael Kick some ass?

[GunnyFreedom]

clearly I am missing something from the OP


ETA -- OK the vid is up now

[Jeremy]

I'm gonna watch this a little later.

Does Michael Kick some ass?

It would have been easier for him to do if there wasn't so much delay.

[specsaregood]

Does Michael Kick some ass?

Here is one quote:


Scheuer: This is just nonsense. There is nothing that would change for the worse in America if Israel and Palestine disappeared tomorrow.


Creepy was at about 3:45:


Beck: Who he (Netanyahu) thinks is a madman, a religious zealot -- and I do as well.
Shill: *quietly*Excellent, Excellent

[Theocrat]

I think Michael Scheuer touched on something that most people miss in this issue of supporting Israel, and that is the view that somehow God favors the nation of Israel. Many American Christians have supported and preached this same idea for decades, and they have pressured our government to defend Israel from Islamic threats. From this, Christian Zionism has bred and spread across the land.

The Muslims also see this as a religious battle in favor of their god, and they are willing to take over the world by eradicating anyone who interferes with the "will of Allah". If our foreign policy dismisses this crucial factor in how it performs its duties overseas and mingles in foreign affairs, then we will continue to fail. It's not only about oil or terrorism. Most importantly, it's about what religion is going to dominate the world.

By the way, I agree that our foreign intervention incites hatred overseas, but I also believe that Islam (at least as it's practiced in countries other than America) seeks to destroy all infidels to the religion. Muslims do hate us because we're not Muslims, and we cannot dismiss that reality when we discuss foreign policy overseas.

[MRoCkEd]

It would have been easier for him to do if there wasn't so much delay.
yeah..

pretty interesting

At least Glenn agrees that they don't hate us for our freedom, but because of what we do over there.

Michael recently said something that I found pretty powerful: "No nation has a right to exist."

[Imperial]

Some thoughts:

1) Michael Scheuer focuses on the wrong train of thought by saying its a religous war and let them kill each other. Instead, he could focus on neither side having the moral high ground. Talk about Israel being a top weapons exporter, its human rights violations, things like that. But making it sound like you don't care is not the way to go.

2) Glenn Beck showed some real development. He is against subsidizing dictators in the Middle East(although Egypt is somewhere between democracy and authoritarianism to the extent its more liberal leaders are holding certain barriers against electoral triumph for fundamentalists.) And, he once again showed he actually listens and can change his views based on merits rather than what the audience wanted.

[MRoCkEd]

Some thoughts:

1) Michael Scheuer focuses on the wrong train of thought by saying its a religous war and let them kill each other. Instead, he could focus on neither side having the moral high ground. Talk about Israel being a top weapons exporter, its human rights violations, things like that. But making it sound like you don't care is not the way to go.

2) Glenn Beck showed some real development. He is against subsidizing dictators in the Middle East(although Egypt is somewhere between democracy and authoritarianism to the extent its more liberal leaders are holding certain barriers against electoral triumph for fundamentalists.) And, he once again showed he actually listens and can change his views based on merits rather than what the audience wanted.
Agreed - on both points

[RSLudlum]

yeah..

pretty interesting

At least Glenn agrees that they don't hate us for our freedom, but because of what we do over there.

Michael recently said something that I found pretty powerful: "No nation has a right to exist."

Exactly...Nations don't have rights, individuals have rights.

[eduardo89]

"We don't stand up for anything anymore"

Well...except for Israel's interests.

[purplechoe]

"We don't stand up for anything anymore"

Well...except for Israel's interests.

That's actually one of the few things both Democrats and Republicans agree on openly. Although they agree pretty much on everything and just "play wrestling" on tv for the rest of us.

YouTube - Jesse Ventura: Politics Is Like Pro Wrestling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7bCkfXlXcM)

[Cowlesy]

Michael Scheuer, dead-nuts on about foreign policy as usual.

[purplechoe]

Michael Scheuer, dead-nuts on about foreign policy as usual.

"Glenn, sure he's a religious fanatic, but the Israelis claim that they own their land because God promised it to Abraham 3,000 years ago. Let them decide who's God is stronger."

http://open.salon.com/blog/greg_correll/2009/02/11/files/applause1234363884.gif

[driller80545]

I think Michael Scheuer touched on something that most people miss in this issue of supporting Israel, and that is the view that somehow God favors the nation of Israel. Many American Christians have supported and preached this same idea for decades, and they have pressured our government to defend Israel from Islamic threats. From this, Christian Zionism has bred and spread across the land.

The Muslims also see this as a religious battle in favor of their god, and they are willing to take over the world by eradicating anyone who interferes with the "will of Allah". If our foreign policy dismisses this crucial factor in how it performs its duties overseas and mingles in foreign affairs, then we will continue to fail. It's not only about oil or terrorism. Most importantly, it's about what religion is going to dominate the world.

By the way, I agree that our foreign intervention incites hatred overseas, but I also believe that Islam (at least as it's practiced in countries other than America) seeks to destroy all infidels to the religion. Muslims do hate us because we're not Muslims, and we cannot dismiss that reality when we discuss foreign policy overseas.

If Muslims so passionately hate infidels, wouldn't that be a little hard on their ability to recruit new members? One other question, do we hate Muslims because they aren't Christian?

[axiomata]

Some thoughts:

1) Michael Scheuer focuses on the wrong train of thought by saying its a religous war and let them kill each other. Instead, he could focus on neither side having the moral high ground. Talk about Israel being a top weapons exporter, its human rights violations, things like that. But making it sound like you don't care is not the way to go.

Scheuer, from the perspective of working for the US government, really does not care. It's awkward to hear sometimes I agree, and I'm sure at a personal level he is saddened by the violence on the Mideast, but he is not a politician, he feels no need to pander to emotions, and he shoots straight.

[Theocrat]

If Muslims so passionately hate infidels, wouldn't that be a little hard on their ability to recruit new members? One other question, do we hate Muslims because they aren't Christian?

Muslims overseas usually recruit members through fear and murder, so they don't really have to worry about the possibility of not having enough proselytes. You either believe in Allah and his prophet Muhammad, or die.

I think your second question is a fair one. I do believe some Christians hate Muslims because they're not Christians, but I couldn't put a figure on it. I would say most American Christians fear that Islam is a threat to our country, if nothing else. Personally, I don't hate Muslims, but I do despise their religion. I do see Islam as a threat in the world, and we need to take it seriously if we have any hope of changing our foreign policy, among other things.

[Theocrat]

You obviously have no experience with the Arab or Muslim world.
Lebanon a Muslim country has 45% Christians, Syria a Muslim country has 15% Christians, they have been living in peace for thousands of years. I have Arab Christians friends, and I am absolutely appalled by your statements but I do not hold it against you that you are a Christian, as I know there are others who represent your faith better than you. Look you even carry an avatar with a cross in the American flag, wasn't it Ron Paul who said Tyranny will come to America disguised in a Cross and wrapped in a flag?

Islam is not a religion of peace (http://thereligionofpeace.com/), and those Muslims who say it is are the liberal ones of the religion (which is a good thing). The Koran and the Hadiths both teach that Muslims can kill those who do not worship Allah. American Muslims have been influenced by Western civilization, which was influenced mostly by Christianity. That is why they don't follow certain laws of their religion such as jihad because American culture will not tolerate such a rite. Once again, that is a good thing.

Even Michael Scheuer admitted that Islam is part of the reason why jihadist Muslims want to attack America (I can't find the video right now, unfortunately.). Our foreign policy of intervention gives them the motivation to retaliate back at us because they perceive us as the "Great Satan" anyway. From their perspective, it is a religious war that has been declared on them in the Middle East to change their way of life through force of arms and imposition of a foreign political system (democracy).

As far as my avatar is concerned, it represents the true power behind the success of America, and it doesn't reside ultimately in the stars (which represent the 50 States). It is the Gospel of Jesus Christ which allowed America to become the great nation it once was. However, that is getting away from the topic of this thread, so I'll stop there.

[devil21]

Looked like more status quo rah-rah go Israel junk from Fox News. Keep beating on that dead foreign policy horse Glenn. As usual, Ahmadinejad is a madman. Israel is the only democracy (yeah right, ask the Palestinians how "free" it is in Israel). Dangerous Iranian nukes that don't even exist. Blah blah rinse and repeat. Beck cut Scheuer off so many times Im amazed he got a sentence completed. And what a surprise, the pro-Israel guy is a Jew. Want to impress me Beck? Get somebody that's NOT a Jew or a Christian on there to defend Israel. But guess what, that would never happen because no one gives a shit about Israel without religious attachments.

ETA: Hey theocrat, show me a religion that is a "religion of peace" in this issue. Muslims? Apparently not. Judaism? Obviously not. Christians? Nope, not there either. In case you've forgotten, the worst atrocities in human history have occured for religious reasons and that continues in modern times. Today's adventures in the middle east are nothing more than a modern incarnation of the Crusades. NO ONE can claim any high ground. And it pisses me off to no end to see the holier-than-thou Christians like yourself claiming that Islam is not a religion of peace when it is OUR planes dropping 5000 pound bombs on THEIR villages, with most of the people calling the shots wearing either cross necklaces or yarmulkas.

[Theocrat]

Looked like more status quo rah-rah go Israel junk from Fox News. Keep beating on that dead foreign policy horse Glenn. As usual, Ahmadinejad is a madman. Israel is the only democracy (yeah right, ask the Palestinians how "free" it is in Israel). Dangerous Iranian nukes that don't even exist. Blah blah rinse and repeat. Beck cut Scheuer off so many times Im amazed he got a sentence completed. And what a surprise, the pro-Israel guy is a Jew. Want to impress me Beck? Get somebody that's NOT a Jew or a Christian on there to defend Israel. But guess what, that would never happen because no one gives a shit about Israel without religious attachments.

ETA: Hey theocrat, show me a religion that is a "religion of peace" in this issue. Muslims? Apparently not. Judaism? Obviously not. Christians? Nope, not there either. In case you've forgotten, the worst atrocities in human history have occured for religious reasons and that continues in modern times. Today's adventures in the middle east are nothing more than a modern incarnation of the Crusades. NO ONE can claim any high ground. And it pisses me off to no end to see the holier-than-thou Christians like yourself claiming that Islam is not a religion of peace when it is OUR planes dropping 5000 pound bombs on THEIR villages.

Christianity is a religion of peace. You're confusing those who act immorally in the name of Christianity (such as those involved in the Crusades and Inquisition) with the actual tenets of the religion itself. I stand with you in condemning those Christians involved in the Crusades and Inquisition because what they did was unbiblical. Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus teach that His truth is to be imposed by violent force.

I stand by my comment that Islam is not a religion of peace, though, admittedly, there are peaceful and liberty-loving Muslims within the religion itself (such as Hamadeh). Once again, I do not believe that it is Islam alone which causes them to retaliate against our country (because of bad foreign policy), but their religion does give them even more justification to punish us in the perception that we are a religious enemy to them. It's not just political. When America drops bombs on innocent Muslim villages, that is clearly wrong. But we don't do so because we are attacking Muslims as Christians against their way of living and beliefs.

[vodalian]

Christianity is a religion of peace.

Neither religion is a religion of 'peace' :rolleyes:.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

[purplechoe]

Christianity is a religion of peace. You're confusing those who act immorally in the name of Christianity (such as those involved in the Crusades and Inquisition) with the actual tenets of the religion itself.

The same can be said of Muslims. As a Theocrat I don't think you know the old testament too well. A lot of passages from it can be translated just as easily as religious fanaticism etc. just as you espouse against the Muslims.

[devil21]

The same can be said of Muslims. As a Theocrat I don't think you know the old testament too well. A lot of passages from it can be translated just as easily as religious fanaticism etc. just as you espouse against the Muslims.

You beat me to it. I was going to ask Theocrat which Testament he is reading from. The Old one talks about stoning people, burning down cities, and sacrificing animals. The New one talks about all the lovey dovey Jesus stuff. Seems even God is bipolar.

[Jace]

...

[paulim]

How can someone watch beck without crying? This part is enough for me:

"Michael Scheuer is one of the most honest people I have ever met.
- I disagree with Michael Scheuer so many times. But I always respect the man for telling the truth and the hard truth!"

If you use some simpe logic on his own words that means:
(1) Michael Scheuer == hard truth, most honest
(2) Glenn Beck != Michael Scheuer
(3) Glenn Beck != honest

[Chieftain1776]

I've criticized Beck a great deal on this forum. I was always a fan of the excellent guests he's had on especially when it comes to economics. I'm thrilled that he's applying the same approach to foreign policy.

I'm dropping an email to thank him for encouraging a debate and suggest others do as well.

[Minarchy4Sale]

Schauer tells it like it is! Gotta respect that.

I am so tired of paying for Israel's wars, I could just puke. Honestly, we could pay to move every Jew on the planet here to the US for way cheaper than it costs us to protect them over there. Arent something like a third of the world's Jews already here anyway? Why cant this be the promised land? Then at least we wouldnt have half the obama administration be dual citizens anymore.

[Jace]

...

[Deborah K]

"Glenn, sure he's a religious fanatic, but the Israelis claim that they own their land because God promised it to Abraham 3,000 years ago. Let them decide who's God is stronger."

http://open.salon.com/blog/greg_correll/2009/02/11/files/applause1234363884.gif


Funny you should post this applaud graphic.....as soon as Mike made that statement, Mark and I did just that! And then I fired off an email to Mike and asked him what his answer was to Joel Rosenberg's last question:


How is cutting Israel loose, which is the only democracy in the Middle East, help that cause then, Michael?

No time left on the show to answer that question and I'm really interested in Mike's answer....so if he emails me back, I'll post his answer, if he says I can. Based on what he's told me in the past, he's going to get a LOT of hate mail for this. I hope Dr. Paul calls him and gives him a little support. These foreign entanglements have got to stop.

[Deborah K]

Scheuer, from the perspective of working for the US government, really does not care. It's awkward to hear sometimes I agree, and I'm sure at a personal level he is saddened by the violence on the Mideast, but he is not a politician, he feels no need to pander to emotions, and he shoots straight.

I agree with this.

[Deborah K]

Mike responded. His answer is here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2137494#post2137494

[MikeStanart]

Wont even bother writing much, because you are obviously very very closed off from the real world, no reason to reason with you.

There is a reason why the Supreme Court of the United States depicts Prophet Muhammaed (PBUH) on a Freize atop the court room. Bringing law and justice to the very radicalized Eastern world.

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/north&southwalls.pdf


Take it from me, he can't be reasoned with.