USPS is a good example of why government run/controlled medical care will fail.

[armslist]

The price of a first-class stamp for a one-ounce letter hit 44 cents this week, up from the 42-cent mark reached just a year ago. Over the long and short runs, postage costs have increased substantially faster than general prices. In the last 40 years, the cost of a stamp rose at an average annual rate of 5.1 percent, whereas inflation was only 4.5 percent a year, on average.

In the last eight years stamp prices rose at an annual average rate of 3.3 percent. Inflation over the same period was only 2.3 percent per year, on average. If USPS costs had been limited to the increase in the consumer price index since 1969, a stamp today would cost 35 cents, not 44 cents. Still, says the Associated Press:

Even so, the rate increase is unlikely to cover the ongoing losses and the possibility remains that the post office could run out of money before the end of the fiscal year.

The post office could have cited extraordinary circumstances and asked the independent Postal Regulatory Commission for larger increases, but officials worried that would only result in a greater decline in mail volume and worse losses.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/business/hancock/blog/2009/05/postagestamp_costs_outpace_inf.html

[Kraig]

What is government run medal care?

[armslist]

What is government run medal care?

Fixed, thanks.

[TonySutton]

There are more examples:

The Fed
Fannie Mae
Freddie Mac
FDIC
USPS
Medicare
Social Security

Can anyone show an open ended government entity/program that REALLY works?

[sevin]

I always tell my friends, Think about the long lines and crappy service at the post office. Now imagine hospitals being that way.

[armslist]

Medicare
Social Security



Unless changes in Social Security are enacted, the retirement fund will be depleted in 2037, four years sooner than projected last year. The Medicare trust fund is in even worse shape. It is projected to become insolvent in 2017, two years earlier than expected.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5itEsngHqX8_Z7vFalDVcYKaRANpQD984VJH80



Clearly we all agree on this stuff, I just thought that USPS example was a good one to be able to share with people because the article is really short and concise.

[Kraig]

I think the people who really support government run medical care are people who want it for free and don't care how shitty it is because it's free, and they don't at all care if they fuck over the rest of us in the process. Then on the other hand there are the idealistic fools who really think it would be some sort of utopia.

Realistically though medical care is already pretty heavily government run as it is, more so than most other businesses. and that is why prices are so ridiculous right now. When you run a practice there are laws you have to follow at every turn, when you can't run your business as you see fit and have to follow all sorts of government rules, to me that is already government run. HIPAA is a good fairly recent example of this. HIPAA compliance costs practices thousands and millions of dollars while putting others out of business, the bigger your practice was the more it cost you. Every time they do something like this the practice of course has to raise prices to make up for it, and they have been doing it consistently for years. Yet it truly gave no practical privacy benefit whatsoever. Not to mention the government is working towards a unified database for all, privacy for who? :rolleyes:

[TonySutton]

We just had a discussion at work yesterday about the USPS. I was explaining how I like seeing the price of stamps go up because at some point REAL private companies will be able to compete with the USPS for regular mail. I don't mean UPS or Fedex will be delivering daily mail to your mail box. I do believe once the price of a first class stamp gets high enough, UPS, Fedex and others will be able to offer similar delivery to your front door.

The USPS is a dinosaur that should have died a horrible death 10-15 years ago. More and more people use the internet and cell phones to communicate. They use them to pay their bills. Fewer people are using the post office.

hehehe I got off track. Anyway the discussion came down to about half in our group saying they wanted regular delivery of mail but it did not need to be daily. Then I asked how many pieces of REAL mail each person gets per week. The total caught even me by surprise. The most was 6 the least was 2! This included bills, statements and personal mail. So i attempted to direct the conversation towards post office boxes to see who would be willing to use a post office box vs. getting daily delivery. No one wanted it even though I showed how each of them travel within 3 blocks of the post office daily.

I dunno, some people are just too lazy. Maybe when first class stamps get above 50 cents it will open their eyes a bit more :(

[roho76]

Maybe when first class stamps get above 50 cents it will open their eyes a bit more :(

I think $1 is the Oh Shit price for stamps.

[Elwar]

great...just what we need

Disgruntled doctors!

[heavenlyboy34]

Thanks, OP. :cool::D Furthermore, this is an example of why government in general is a failure. :p

[Kraig]

Thanks, OP. :cool::D Furthermore, this is an example of why government in general is a failure. :p

They fail on all fronts. :D

[armslist]

Thanks, OP. :cool::D Furthermore, this is an example of why government in general is a failure. :p

Haha, anytime.

I started the site in my sig with the idea of offering a free service, and letting people advertise on the site to pay for the costs.

It's a great example of a totally free market concept....so long as our 2A rights stay free....

[dannno]

Are the inflation numbers they are giving really valid?

[dannno]

Sorry for pooping on the parade... but I mean, to compare 4.5% inflation to 5% increase in stamps when the 4.5% inflation isn't valid.. well, not very fair.

What I would argue is that technology used for sorting and distributing mail should be making the USPS prices come down relative to inflation.

[torchbearer]

Sorry for pooping on the parade... but I mean, to compare 4.5% inflation to 5% increase in stamps when the 4.5% inflation isn't valid.. well, not very fair.

What I would argue is that technology used for sorting and distributing mail should be making the USPS prices come down relative to inflation.

their payroll cost is what kills them.
Imagine getting paid $20/hour with fell federal benefits and retirement just to sort mail.
I worked a tour of duty for the post office. Their use of military language is funny.

[angelatc]

We just had a discussion at work yesterday about the USPS. I was explaining how I like seeing the price of stamps go up because at some point REAL private companies will be able to compete with the USPS for regular mail. I don't mean UPS or Fedex will be delivering daily mail to your mail box. I do believe once the price of a first class stamp gets high enough, UPS, Fedex and others will be able to offer similar delivery to your front door.


They're forbidden from competing by statute. The government has a monopoly on First Class mail.

[armslist]

Sorry for pooping on the parade... but I mean, to compare 4.5% inflation to 5% increase in stamps when the 4.5% inflation isn't valid.. well, not very fair.

What I would argue is that technology used for sorting and distributing mail should be making the USPS prices come down relative to inflation.

Yeah, it's sort of a double sided coin. They are growing faster than "inflation" when "inflation" is a flawed government produced figure that is totally dishonest in the first place.

[Brassmouth]

I always use the example of public schools when debating about socialized medicine. Since there won't be single-payer in this country, it'll be a system of decent, albeit high-priced care for the rich, and shitty, garbage free care for everyone else. Sounds fun, doesn't it?