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View Full Version : Seriously…Wallstreet fraudster Madoff's Investors now in line for Bailout?




Liberty Star
05-12-2009, 08:55 PM
Did anyone watch CNBC program last night shedding very sympathetic light on agony of Palm Beach millionaires and Wallsteert crook Madoff's investors who are now inline for bailout?

Is this a norm that people losing money in stock scams get tax dollars bailout or this is special case? Or is this because drying of money well from Madoff's frauds is causing foreign project being shut down? Who is behind this bailout plan??



Seriously…Madoff Investors Want A Bailout?

Bailout seems to be the word in 2008: Everyone is getting one, or is giving their case for why they need one. In the latest bailout request, the Alternative Investment Management Association (AIMA) is asking for aid for the investors burned in the $50 Madoff investment scam according to Reuters. On the news we have heard heartfelt stories of retirees who lost everything, but then again these were supposed to be sophisticated investors. What should we do?

For those who are unfamiliar with the Madoff investment scandal, Madoff Securities is a hedge fund which set up a big ponzi scheme and scammed investors out of approximately $50 billion. To invest in hedge funds, investors are required to be accredited, which means they have at least a net worth of $1 million or make at least $200,000 a year ($300,000 if married). These types of investments require accreditation because they are considered riskier and more complicated and they are not bound by the same SEC regulations as common investments are.


http://www.nuwireinvestor.com/blogs/investorcentric/2008/12/seriouslymadoff-investors-want-bailout.html


Hadassah warns Madoff scam has compromised projects - Israel News ...

Dec 20, 2008 ... But everything we do to meet the challenge is aimed at protecting our core mission of strengthening Israel and the Jewish people," Nancy

www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3641402,00.html

Israeli nonprofits reel from Madoff fraud

Apr 5, 2009 ... Madoff. They include the Chais Family Foundation, which worked on educational projects in Israel, and the Yeshaya Horowitz Association, ...
www.mydigitalfc.com/news/israeli-nonprofits-reel-madoff-fraud-981

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3641402,00.html

SharkGirl
05-12-2009, 08:57 PM
When do Americans get their bailout? After all, we got our incomes stolen so all these bailouts can take place.

sevin
05-12-2009, 09:15 PM
When do Americans get their bailout? After all, we got our incomes stolen so all these bailouts can take place.

Stop asking silly questions. The government will decide who needs bailout. Government knows best.

torchbearer
05-12-2009, 09:26 PM
When do Americans get their bailout? After all, we got our incomes stolen so all these bailouts can take place.

The big banks are too big to fail. You are too small to notice.
Donate a quarter million dollars to your congressman and then you can get in line for a bailout.

revolutionisnow
05-12-2009, 09:35 PM
The Madoff scam was most likely a double scam or much bigger scam then people see. Madoff goes down, sure, but now all the rest who would have lost most everything in the market like everyone else are now able to collect from the SIPC insurance. Coverage provides up to $500,000 per investor. It also seems like Bernie's bookkeeping involved little more than scrap paper or a handshake, so who knows how many of these people really invested at all?
http://www.duanemorris.com/site/madoff_investors.html

Then you still have the problem of 50 Billion dollars out there floating on the black market somewhere.


And the loss of tax revenue to the govt(or the gain of it for the investors)

" Under the rules, an investor who lost $20 million with Madoff and whose adjusted gross income was $10 million can claim a theft loss of about $19 million.
To calculate the theft loss, investors must reduce the amount of the loss by 10 percent of their adjusted gross income plus $100, said Robert Willens, an expert on tax and accounting issues for Wall Street clients. That theft loss would wipe out the $3.5 million in taxes that would otherwise be payable on the $10 million in income. The losses can be carried back for three years or carried forward for 20 years. "
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/dec/19/1b19madoff233847-government-stands-lose-billions-m/?uniontrib

devil21
05-12-2009, 10:54 PM
Ive posted about it before but Ill float the idea once again. My hypothesis is that Madoff never ran a Ponzi scheme. He ran a legit hedge fund that failed and since hedge funds are not protected in any form from failure, all of his investors (who happen to also be....ahem....) were SOL on their investments. So a sickly Madoff "confesses" to running a Ponzi scheme, therefore allowing his investors to recoup their losses from the taxpayers. The federal fraud statutes differentiate between basic fraud and Ponzi schemes. Basic fraud gives investors recourse only through suing the fund and the managers (Madoff). An admitted Ponzi scheme gets bailed out by the gov't instead. Large financial companies invested large amounts of money with Madoff. Are we seriously to believe that HSBC would hand over $25 million without investigating whether the fund was legit? I don't buy it. This is why he was so quick to plead guilty and avoid any trial and disclosure of evidence. Once the Feds discovered that it wasn't a Ponzi scheme they couldn't admit it otherwise they would look very, very foolish. So the Feds are playing along and letting Madoff sacrifice himself without much further investigation. Interesting to note that only Madoff's accountant has also been arrested. No way a Ponzi scheme of that alleged size could be run by just a 70 year old man and an accountant.

So bottom line, Madoff just sacrificed himself so his fellow "tribe" investors could get their money back from YOU, instead of taking their market losses like everyone else has.

KoldKut
05-12-2009, 11:56 PM
...

Liberty Star
05-13-2009, 08:39 PM
The Madoff scam was most likely a double scam or much bigger scam then people see. Madoff goes down, sure, but now all the rest who would have lost most everything in the market like everyone else are now able to collect from the SIPC insurance. Coverage provides up to $500,000 per investor. It also seems like Bernie's bookkeeping involved little more than scrap paper or a handshake, so who knows how many of these people really invested at all?
http://www.duanemorris.com/site/madoff_investors.html

Then you still have the problem of 50 Billion dollars out there floating on the black market somewhere.


And the loss of tax revenue to the govt(or the gain of it for the investors)

" Under the rules, an investor who lost $20 million with Madoff and whose adjusted gross income was $10 million can claim a theft loss of about $19 million.
To calculate the theft loss, investors must reduce the amount of the loss by 10 percent of their adjusted gross income plus $100, said Robert Willens, an expert on tax and accounting issues for Wall Street clients. That theft loss would wipe out the $3.5 million in taxes that would otherwise be payable on the $10 million in income. The losses can be carried back for three years or carried forward for 20 years. "
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/dec/19/1b19madoff233847-government-stands-lose-billions-m/?uniontrib


This is very interesting information. A double scam? This matter needs a lot of sunshine.




Ive posted about it before but Ill float the idea once again. My hypothesis is that Madoff never ran a Ponzi scheme. He ran a legit hedge fund that failed and since hedge funds are not protected in any form from failure, all of his investors (who happen to also be....ahem....) were SOL on their investments. So a sickly Madoff "confesses" to running a Ponzi scheme, therefore allowing his investors to recoup their losses from the taxpayers. ..

I have an older relative who calls whole stock market world's largest casino. Conicidence of all this with Iraq war is strange though.