Now tasered student is Ron Paul kook?

[Johnnybags]

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272616178.shtml


Oh they will try anything in desperation, won't they?

[The Good Doctor]

Man this is just fucked up. Any dig they can get at Dr. Paul. What bullshit.

[Taco John]

They're going to do whatever they can to slander Dr. Paul in whatever way they can. The establishment isn't going to go down without a fight.

...but they will go down!

[Eli]

I saw a homeless guy on the street corner the other day chewing on his own shoe. He must be either antishoe or pro ron paul......must be ron paul. alert the news.

[Mordechai Vanunu]

Actually this guy is indeed a member of a Ron Paul meet-up group in Florida.

[Givemelibertyor.....]

-------------------------------------

[dsentell]

OMG!

There is not even anything that indicates he is a RP supporter!

The message is simply: nutcase = Ron Paul supporter

:cool:

[Mordechai Vanunu]

Andrew Meyer is a member of the Gainesville, FL Ron Paul meet-up group. Just confirmed this on Google.

Which I have absolutely no problem with.

[skiingff]

Andrew Meyer is a member of the Gainesville, FL Ron Paul meet-up group. Just confirmed this on Google.

Which I have absolutely no problem with.

No problem - he was asking to be taken down by the PO-LEECE, and he was taken down. Now he needs to sit down and STFU.

When you're being disruptive and resisting arrest, it's no longer free speech.

[BenIsForRon]

No problem - he was asking to be taken down by the PO-LEECE, and he was taken down. Now he needs to sit down and STFU.

When you're being disruptive and resisting arrest, it's no longer free speech.

Why do you like Ron Paul?

[Delaware]

He could be a paid shill by the establishment to continue and erode any credibility that Ron Paul has with the American Public.

[FluffyUnbound]

No problem - he was asking to be taken down by the PO-LEECE, and he was taken down. Now he needs to sit down and STFU.

When you're being disruptive and resisting arrest, it's no longer free speech.

That's crap.

If I have you over to my house for dinner, and I decide I don't like how you're acting, which of these two responses am I permitted:

1. Ask you to leave, and if you refuse to leave after I've asked, contact the police to use force to remove you

- Or -

2. Without asking you to leave, jump up and yell "Trespasser!", and have cops jump out from behind the blinds to taser you?

The kid was not given any real opportunity to leave. The police have decided in recent years that "for officer safety" they get to physically handle you, cuff you, etc., before you're given an opportunity to leave. And that's bullshit.

If you ask me to leave an event, I'll walk out. If you touch me while I'm complying, so that "officers can feel safe", I will fucking hound you until your dying day and my last red cent, and I will never, ever let it go.

Kerry said he wanted to answer the kid's question. That means the kid had a reasonable belief that he wasn't trespassing. So the cops can go fuck themselves and I hope they end up with a world of grief and litigation from this.

[angelatc]

No problem - he was asking to be taken down by the PO-LEECE, and he was taken down. Now he needs to sit down and STFU.

When you're being disruptive and resisting arrest, it's no longer free speech.

Why do people think he was being disruptive? He had the mic, and he was finishing the question. Kerry said he would answer.

Last time I checked, being obnoxious wasn't legitimate grounds for being tasered.

Why were they arresting him without telling him what he was being arrested for?

[Mordechai Vanunu]

No problem - he was asking to be taken down by the PO-LEECE, and he was taken down. Now he needs to sit down and STFU.

When you're being disruptive and resisting arrest, it's no longer free speech.

Bullshit.

[dsentell]

That's crap.

. . .

I hope they end up with a world of grief and litigation from this.

Agreed.

Those macho taser carrying cops really looked like wimps -- several of them surrounding this ONE kid, but could not contain him without pulling out their trusty taser.

[walt]

Could they wrap that crap with anymore CPM ads? What a joke.

A little blowback please?

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[American]

denounce this in Republican circles and praise it in Democrat circles, lets work with the hand that has been dealt.

and send emails to the ledger, for making such BS assumptions without qualifying the article.

[skiingff]

Bullshit.

Look, I'm in the military and I support the law enforcement officers who put their lives on the line every day for people like us. And law enforcement supports us.

It's fine for this guy... who thinks he's king of the world or whatever... to run his mouth all he wants. It's inappropriate to run it when his time was obviously up, he was obviously being asked to leave, they had to call in the Police to make him leave, and then he resists arrest. Absolutely inappropriate.

What if some crazy neocon did this at a Ron Paul speech? And interrupted Ron Paul, refused to stop talking after his mic was cut off, refused to leave when asked to do so, and refused to leave when the cops are called in.

It's fucking ridiculous... especially since this guy is clearly a prankster and does this stuff to get people stirred up. Well, he got what he wanted. Jail.

[Mordechai Vanunu]

The key thing is that Kerry agreed to hear him and answer his questions, rendering every subsequent action by the police unnecessary and excessive.

[angelatc]

they had to call in the Police to make him leave, and then he resists arrest. Absolutely inappropriate.



Actually, the organizers denied that they called the police in.

And being an A$$ shouldn't be grounds for incarceration.

[Qiu]

how can that kid be a Ron Paul supporter? He seemed like an enthusiastic democrat who wanted Kerry to win.

[Green Mountain Boy]

how can that kid be a Ron Paul supporter? He seemed like an enthusiastic democrat who wanted Kerry to win.

Actually, he was asking if Kerry was a member of Skull & Bones, the same secret society as President Bush.

[libertarian4321]

I can't believe this guy got all this coverage and wasn't wearing a RON PAUL 2008 Tshirt- what a wasted opportunity...

[Qiu]

Actually, he was asking if Kerry was a member of Skull & Bones, the same secret society as President Bush.
Yes, but he wanted Kerry to challenge the 2004 election results.

[Green Mountain Boy]

Yes, but he wanted Kerry to challenge the 2004 election results.

I think he was just trying to get Kerry to answer why he didn't challenge the results - not that he wanted him to win.

[honkywill]

Yes, but he wanted Kerry to challenge the 2004 election results.

I think he was bashing Kerry for handing the election over without a fight.

He was implying the whole election was a sham and Kerry knows it.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

No problem - he was asking to be taken down by the PO-LEECE, and he was taken down. Now he needs to sit down and STFU.

When you're being disruptive and resisting arrest, it's no longer free speech.

Just lay down, huh? Great strategy.

[TheEvilDetector]

Look, I'm in the military and I support the law enforcement officers who put their lives on the line every day for people like us. And law enforcement supports us.

It's fine for this guy... who thinks he's king of the world or whatever... to run his mouth all he wants. It's inappropriate to run it when his time was obviously up, he was obviously being asked to leave, they had to call in the Police to make him leave, and then he resists arrest. Absolutely inappropriate.

What if some crazy neocon did this at a Ron Paul speech? And interrupted Ron Paul, refused to stop talking after his mic was cut off, refused to leave when asked to do so, and refused to leave when the cops are called in.

It's fucking ridiculous... especially since this guy is clearly a prankster and does this stuff to get people stirred up. Well, he got what he wanted. Jail.

Want to know something?

Ron Paul crowd would let the Neo-can rant, because freedom of speech is freedom of speech, however they may BOO what he says and use their freedom of speech against his. The neo-con would probably realise, that a shouting match over other people is not very helpful to his cause, and just decide to shut up. If Ron Paul was actually present he would address any questions the neo-con has, without prejudice. Ron Paul has been handling criticism for many many years, I am sure he can handle a ranting neo-con just fine. He would probably turn the situation around in such a way that the police would not even need to come and do anything. Knowing Ron Paul, he would probably let the neo-con have an extensive chat with him after the public talk if he is so bothered by Ron's policies. An agitated, emotional, irrational neo-con, may actually come down, after talking to the down to earth Ron for a few minutes and maybe even realise that he is shouting for the wrong team.

As they say you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Ron Paul is not insecure like the other politicians, his ego isn't crushed by someone
who is disagreeing with him. He is a man not a boy. He can handle himself well.

If the event organisers publicly or privately asked the man to leave, then and only then can the police or security escort the man out (or if the man was making threatening statements or other criminal acts), however, the police or security have to give the man an opportunity to walk out on his own first. There needs to be a gradual escalation, not an all out WWF fight.

Now as far as that kid is concerned, he was just grabbed after finishing his questions, he didnt even get a chance to hear Kerry's response.

Why didn't the officers inform him of the reason fo the arrest if it was lawful? Let me guess, it wasn't lawful.

Bottom line, the kid got arrested for speaking.

He was not threating anyone verbally or physically.

This is insane, that people can even justify such behaviour.

Police need to chill the fuck out and eat a donut seriously.

Nobody wants people manhandled and tasered for simply speaking out.

[jonahtrainer]

That's crap.

If I have you over to my house for dinner, and I decide I don't like how you're acting, which of these two responses am I permitted:

1. Ask you to leave, and if you refuse to leave after I've asked, contact the police to use force to remove you

- Or -

2. Without asking you to leave, jump up and yell "Trespasser!", and have cops jump out from behind the blinds to taser you?

The kid was not given any real opportunity to leave. The police have decided in recent years that "for officer safety" they get to physically handle you, cuff you, etc., before you're given an opportunity to leave. And that's bullshit.

If you ask me to leave an event, I'll walk out. If you touch me while I'm complying, so that "officers can feel safe", I will fucking hound you until your dying day and my last red cent, and I will never, ever let it go.

Kerry said he wanted to answer the kid's question. That means the kid had a reasonable belief that he wasn't trespassing. So the cops can go fuck themselves and I hope they end up with a world of grief and litigation from this.



I just wrote up a blog (http://pleasedonttasemebro.blogspot.com/) about the taser incident and charging the officers with Attempted Murder. I analyze the Trespass defense for the police.

What really needs to happen though is every American needs to be trained with the DVD BUSTED. The government will push us around as much as we let it. Remember, it represents us.

[jonahtrainer]

how can that kid be a Ron Paul supporter? He seemed like an enthusiastic democrat who wanted Kerry to win.

You really don't think he didn't plan this. It took place on Constitution Day for crying out loud.

As far as people who say there is something wrong with planning something like this; I ask What difference does it make? Police engage in speed traps and sting operations. Is there a difference between that and a citizen sting operation of the police? Sounds like a way to make some good money for a law abiding citizen. The free market at work.

[paulpwns]

Those aren't even cops they are campus cops.

Campus cops are the worst, most pathetic, barbaric type of cops around.

Always have been...

The taser was excessive force. 6 people can't get handcuffs on?

THEY HAVE NO TRAINING

TRAINING=TASING


The saddest part was that everyone just stood around watching. Doing nothing.

[michaelwise]

I just herd on Hannity, the cops that did the tasing are going to be fired. He sounded disgusted. What a tool.

[aksmith]

I am so tired of all this skull and bones garbage. If it's such a vast conspiracy and secret society, how is it that everyone in the world knows about it? The fact is that if this kid is a Ron Paul supporter, he has fed in to every negative stereotype that haunts all of us.

If you value freedom, including the freedom to rant endlessly about conspiracies, real or imagined, then we simply need to support Ron Paul for president. If everyone who believes in the great conspiracy votes for Ron Paul ten times, we still lose. We need people who DON'T believe in conspiracies to vote for Dr. Paul. That's where the election will rest. And the more we jump up and down about any conspiracy, the more of those people we lose.

I know it makes some people feel good to attend 9/11 truther meetings and speak with great enthusiasm about the Rockefellers and Rothschilds and free masonry and the illuminati. And if you keep it up, you'll be doing all your meetings and speeches with Hillary or Rudy or Fred or Newtie in the White House. Please, I beg you, keep it all to yourself until the only good guy in the race is in the White House. A.K. Smith

[Ridiculous]

I am so tired of all this skull and bones garbage. If it's such a vast conspiracy and secret society, how is it that everyone in the world knows about it? The fact is that if this kid is a Ron Paul supporter, he has fed in to every negative stereotype that haunts all of us.

If you value freedom, including the freedom to rant endlessly about conspiracies, real or imagined, then we simply need to support Ron Paul for president. If everyone who believes in the great conspiracy votes for Ron Paul ten times, we still lose. We need people who DON'T believe in conspiracies to vote for Dr. Paul. That's where the election will rest. And the more we jump up and down about any conspiracy, the more of those people we lose.

I know it makes some people feel good to attend 9/11 truther meetings and speak with great enthusiasm about the Rockefellers and Rothschilds and free masonry and the illuminati. And if you keep it up, you'll be doing all your meetings and speeches with Hillary or Rudy or Fred or Newtie in the White House. Please, I beg you, keep it all to yourself until the only good guy in the race is in the White House. A.K. Smith

2nded

[Mani]

These shirts are showing up everywhere...

http://www.cafepress.com/oddculture.171249923

http://www.zazzle.com/don_t_tase_me_bro_shirt-235785764176860877

http://images.cafepress.com/product/171249923v4_240x240_Front.jpg

[SeanEdwards]

The kid was not given any real opportunity to leave. The police have decided in recent years that "for officer safety" they get to physically handle you, cuff you, etc., before you're given an opportunity to leave. And that's bullshit.


Don't argue with the police. They WILL mess you up. It's their job.



If you ask me to leave an event, I'll walk out. If you touch me while I'm complying, so that "officers can feel safe", I will fucking hound you until your dying day and my last red cent, and I will never, ever let it go.


Oh, you WILL be cuffed, if the police want you cuffed. Those bracelets will either go on peacefully, or with 8 people standing on your prone form with a knee in the back of your neck.

DON'T FIGHT WITH POLICE.

Dummies. :rolleyes:

[hvac ak47]

+1 The kid should have shut up and left!

[skiingff]

Those aren't even cops they are campus cops.

Campus cops are the worst, most pathetic, barbaric type of cops around.

Always have been...

The taser was excessive force. 6 people can't get handcuffs on?

THEY HAVE NO TRAINING

TRAINING=TASING


The saddest part was that everyone just stood around watching. Doing nothing.

Actually, "campus cops" go through the same certification process as "municipal cops" or "state cops." They get the same training, go through the same academies. Remember, any uniformed officer with state peace officer certification has the same standardized training.

There goes your anti-Police tirade.

Please, Ron Paul supporters, don't be anti-police. It's not right and does the cause no good. When you say ALL "campus cops" are "barbaric" and have "no training"...

completely irresponsible, irreprehensible, and untrue. ALL "campus cops" are not barbaric. Neither are these ones. They were simply doing their job.

[ronpaulitician]

What would Ron Paul do?

[Elwar]

People need to realize that on private property you need to follow the rules of speaking only during the allotted time of the set rules.

I was at my friend's house the other day, he has this strict rule about not talking during the football game. My wife started yapping during the game and he told her to stop. She kept going so he tazered her ass.

I think she got what was coming to her. She did break the rules and all.


:rolleyes:

[Cindy]

+1 The kid should have shut up and left!

Then authoritarian opressers of free speach win. WE THE PEOPLE, loose.

Here is a refreshing, civil discussion on that matter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUV-xEMgGUo

[johngr]

+1 The kid should have shut up and left!

Actually, if he'd done that, he'd have ended up being $500,000 to $1,000,000 poorer.

[Mani]

People need to realize that on private property you need to follow the rules of speaking only during the allotted time of the set rules.

I was at my friend's house the other day, he has this strict rule about not talking during the football game. My wife started yapping during the game and he told her to stop. She kept going so he tazered her ass.

I think she got what was coming to her. She did break the rules and all.


:rolleyes:

Note to self:
1) Buy taser.
2) Institute 3 strikes and your tased ruling in household during football games. Applies to guests, children, adults and especially wives.

[mconder]

They scream about the First Amendment and the US Constitution as if they actually understand it.

Wow.

[catwoman]

People need to realize that on private property you need to follow the rules of speaking only during the allotted time of the set rules.


I would agree in regards to private property. However, this incident took place at the University of Florida which is taxpayer supported, thus it isn't private property. Furthermore the young man, although loud and obnoxious is apparently a student at the university, thus he had every right to be there.

[mconder]

I am so tired of all this skull and bones garbage. If it's such a vast conspiracy and secret society, how is it that everyone in the world knows about it?

Do give me the "It's just a stupid fraternity" argument. How many stupid fraternities have ever had two candidates for president representing both major parties in the same year? That's right, Skull & Bones.

Also, name a government in the history of the world that was free of conspiracies.

We need people who DON'T believe in conspiracies to vote for Dr. Paul.

This is just asinine to think that there are no conspiracies within the biggest government that has ever ruled on this earth. Not to mention, Ron Paul would loose about half of his supporters if all the people who believed in conspiracies stopped supporting him.

[cjhowe]

I would agree in regards to private property. However, this incident took place at the University of Florida which is taxpayer supported, thus it isn't private property. Furthermore the young man, although loud and obnoxious is apparently a student at the university, thus he had every right to be there.

There is the crux that no one wants to accept. Andrew Meyer is a student at the University of Florida. In order to be a student at said University you must _voluntarily enter into a contract that restricts your speech. You must act in an orderly manner with respect to your classmates, professors, guests, administration and staff. Andrew Meyer disturbed the peace and thus warranted being removed from the event, through force if necessary. The U of F is not a public forum where you get to be a five year old in the back seat pointing at your sibling and ranting "I'm not touching, I'm not touching" as if you were standing on a sidewalk. There are rules of conduct just as there are rules of conduct when in a courtroom, or the legislature.

[ronpaulitician]

This is just asinine to think that there are no conspiracies within the biggest government that has ever ruled on this earth. Not to mention, Ron Paul would loose about half of his supporters if all the people who believed in conspiracies stopped supporting him.
His point is that in order for Paul to win, we need way more people who do not believe in conspiracies to vote for him than the 50% of his current supporters who do believe in conspiracies.

If the name "Ron Paul" becomes solidly associated with "conspiracy theory", there's no way he'll win.

[johnrocks]

I may get flamed for saying this but incidents like this only give Paul and his supporters a bad name. If I was an undecided voter, things like this certainly would not sway me to vote for the good Doctor. This kind of crap is the last thing a true supporter needs to be doing right now. MSM lives for shit like this!

[aksmith]

His point is that in order for Paul to win, we need way more people who do not believe in conspiracies to vote for him than the 50% of his current supporters who do believe in conspiracies.

If the name "Ron Paul" becomes solidly associated with "conspiracy theory", there's no way he'll win.

That is exactly what I meant. Thank you. I am at the point now where I think people who push conspiracy theories aren't much interested in getting Dr. Paul elected. They're just interested in whining about skull and bones.

I had one guy in a local meetup tell me he's spending a more time on the 9/11 truth thing than the Paul campaign because he feels that he gets more out of it. Yeah, I get more out of sex than donating to Ron Paul, but all that gets me is sex. . . . . hey, I just realized I've got somewhere I need to be . . . like now.

[Danny Molina]

Is tasered even a word? Isn't it tased?

[RevolutionSD]

Andrew Meyer is a HERO.
I'm proud to have him be a Ron Paul supporter.

If we could all be as brave and ask our polititions the tough questions, we would live in a better world.

Those cops should be tasered as their punishment for what they did to him yesterday!

[torchbearer]

Is tasered even a word? Isn't it tased?

Good question, maybe http://www.hyperdictionary.com can give us the answer..

[torchbearer]

nope, no answer there.

[ronpaulitician]

Is tasered even a word? Isn't it tased?
I think it's "Tasered" (capital T).

[synthetic]

I may get flamed for saying this but incidents like this only give Paul and his supporters a bad name. If I was an undecided voter, things like this certainly would not sway me to vote for the good Doctor. This kind of crap is the last thing a true supporter needs to be doing right now. MSM lives for shit like this!

So a kid gets tasered for asking a question and they have you questioning if HE did something wrong. Or if HE is to blame for getting 50,000 volts while a half dozen police are piled on him. As much as you support Ron Paul, they even have YOU questioning this kids patriotism? Unbelievable. Are you sure you support RP?

[paulitics]

If anyone thinks that Ron Paul would not be 100% in the kids corner, then I'm amazed that you support him.


The kid broke no law, and should not have been removed, tasered or arrested. He was on public property at a school he pays tuition for, asked a question (not articulately) and prefaced the question with some information. That is not breaking a law.

Any "hard hitting" question takes longer to ask. The kid's mistake was that he was too theatrical, and caused excessive blowback. If he was breaking forum rules, than it is not the cops duty to arrest someone. A forum moderator could have taken care of that, not 6 police. And then to taser someone who is defenseless on the ground is police brutality.

This is absurd.

[ronpaulitician]

If this kid is a Ron Paul supporter, Paul better be prepared to answer questions about the incident.

I think a preemptive answer would be best.

[Taco John]

If anyone thinks that Ron Paul would not be 100% in the kids corner, then I'm amazed that you support him.


The kid broke no law, and should not have been removed, tasered or arrested. He was on public property at a school he pays tuition for, asked a question (not articulately) and prefaced the question with some information. That is not breaking a law.

Any "hard hitting" question takes longer to ask. The kid's mistake was that he was too theatrical, and caused excessive blowback. If he was breaking forum rules, than it is not the cops duty to arrest someone. A forum moderator could have taken care of that, not 6 police. And then to taser someone who is defenseless on the ground is police brutality.

This is absurd.



Amen to that... This kid was speaking out in an appropriate forum. He wasn't violent, or really even abusive. Did he go over the arbitrary time limit? Sure he did, but that's no reason to boot him from the event.

That said, the kid became civilly disobedient. He has to pay the consequences for that. But for that, we should all thank him. If he just quietly went, another instance where our first amendment rights were squelched by governmental authority would have flown under the radar.

[ThePieSwindler]

Those aren't even cops they are campus cops.

Campus cops are the worst, most pathetic, barbaric type of cops around.

Always have been...

The taser was excessive force. 6 people can't get handcuffs on?

THEY HAVE NO TRAINING

TRAINING=TASING


The saddest part was that everyone just stood around watching. Doing nothing.

Eh thats not entirely true. The cops at my college are awesome, they will drive you home without saying a word if youre underage and drunk off your ass...

but anyways.

The point is, they went way too far, and they jumped on him physically before even asking him to leave, and shouldnt have handled him like that in the first place. Dealing with cops is a slippery slope, because theyll often start grabbing/touching you for no reason, and if you even show reflex, they will then charge you for resisting arrest or assaulting an officer. At that point, you ARE an idiot if you do resist violently, but it doesnt mean they should have done that in the first place, or gone that far. Any dealing with cops is a VERY slippery slope - just driving around town, if you accidently have some weed out or something along those lines, can change your entire life if you don't handle the situation properly.

[ThePieSwindler]

There is the crux that no one wants to accept. Andrew Meyer is a student at the University of Florida. In order to be a student at said University you must _voluntarily enter into a contract that restricts your speech. You must act in an orderly manner with respect to your classmates, professors, guests, administration and staff. Andrew Meyer disturbed the peace and thus warranted being removed from the event, through force if necessary. The U of F is not a public forum where you get to be a five year old in the back seat pointing at your sibling and ranting "I'm not touching, I'm not touching" as if you were standing on a sidewalk. There are rules of conduct just as there are rules of conduct when in a courtroom, or the legislature.

Somehow i knew you'd say this. I'm not Electric Church, so im not going to say you're a cointelpro agent or anyof that shit, but i will say you are wrong here. The guy was simply asking a question, and they descended upon him with force immediately, as if on cue. Actually, free speech on college campuses has been an ongoing debate for a while, but saying he "entered a voluntary contract therefore he gives up the right to ask a politician a question without being subjected to police brutality" is fallacious on the order of absolute bullshit. Police need to follow a standard of conduct as well, which includes not tasering people who have done no harm and were barely resisting other than verbally.

[BarryDonegan]

the thing you must remember about this, is that the younger people in the Paul campaign are JUST NOW getting a little teensy taste of police and government abuses.

older people will associate this with Kent State, and other horrendous atrocities which history proved did occur.

this is only weird "conspiracy theory" stuff to the younger generation.

to the older generation it probably just hasn't gotten severe enough. they're used to people getting blasted by guns at protests.

[jonahtrainer]

I would agree in regards to private property. However, this incident took place at the University of Florida which is taxpayer supported, thus it isn't private property. Furthermore the young man, although loud and obnoxious is apparently a student at the university, thus he had every right to be there.

I analyze the Trespass defense for the officers on my blog (http://pleasedonttasemebro.blogspot.com/)while analyzing the question: Should the UF police who attacked Andrew Meyer on Constitution Day be tried and convicted for Attempted Murder?

Please come be the jury.


Any dealing with cops is a VERY slippery slope - just driving around town, if you accidently have some weed out or something along those lines, can change your entire life if you don't handle the situation properly.

Very true. See my signature!

[BarryDonegan]

sharp stuff jonah.

i agree with you there, he was recognized as a speaker by the moderator of the event. removing him by force was unjustified.

those police are paid by his tuition bills, and our taxes, and protection of students should be their #1 job. he showed no intent to violence, and was not a threat to public safety.

rude? yes. but rudeness is not a threat to the safety of students.

in a post va tech world these police need an image of PROTECTING students, not torturing them.

[paulitics]

Amen to that... This kid was speaking out in an appropriate forum. He wasn't violent, or really even abusive. Did he go over the arbitrary time limit? Sure he did, but that's no reason to boot him from the event.

That said, the kid became civilly disobedient. He has to pay the consequences for that. But for that, we should all thank him. If he just quietly went, another instance where our first amendment rights were squelched by governmental authority would have flown under the radar.

Right, and we can't let guys like Oreilly say he deserved to be tasered be acceptable. I mean, the question should be " is it acceptable the kid got escorted out?" to which I reply no, not by police. Its the function of the moderators. Since when do police decide what is acceptable at a public forum? Very scary implications if that becomes the precedent.

[Geronimo]

The 'truthers' and the Andrew Meyers of the world had better learn a good lesson from how this kid acted. Not everybody in the world knows about Skull and Bones. Maybe they will someday, but this kind of stuff is too weird for most folks to want to think about, so they don't give it much thought. (the truth really does hurt) ..so don't go scaring off potential votes.

Did you notice that the mainstream media (even the so-called left media) never addressed what Andrew Meyers was talking (shouting) about. Every mainstream audio or video clip that I saw excluded the part where he was talking about Kerry conceding the 2004 election. None of the reporters bothered to address the content of his rant, when what he was talking about should have sent up a bunch of red flags to the people who call themselves journalists. If they let that slide, it's safe to assume that they're only telling us what they want us to hear.
And for a 'good reason'.

The government run mainstream media all take the same stance, and they all use the same tactics to discredit people who bring up the possibility of a conspiracy. When someone calls a talk radio show and mentions Skull and Bones, the need for a new investigation into 9/11, or anything slightly to the left, it's literally the job of the talk show host to dumb the topic down, while belittling the mindset of the type of people who would think that way. They'll talk over people, so that their point can't be heard. And the caller usually gets cut off before the conversation dies out. The government and the media have dumbed too many people down. Currently they're in the process of promoting this fine war, demonizing democrats, while promoting the neo-con agenda, and scaring the hell out of the people in this country. Give yourself 8 hours of talk radio a day and you'll see exactly what I mean. Glen Beck, Rush, and Hannity are the loudest voices for the neo-cons. When anyone of these clowns is broadcasting you can be sure that if you lose reception to one station that there'll be another one just coming into range on the radio. In a lot of areas you can find these guys doing the same broadcast on three or four stations around the dial.

Pardon my rant, but people really need to wake up and smell the propaganda.

[ronpaulitician]

I mean, the question should be " is it acceptable the kid got escorted out?" to which I reply no, not by police. Its the function of the moderators.
There were moderators?

If you look at the phone cam footage, you can see a "suit" instruct campus police. I assume "suit" is with the Kerry campaign.

[they walked in line]

Did anyone happen to notice what book (http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Madhouse-Baghdad-Orleans-Sordid-Secrets/dp/0452288312) that kid was holding?

[cjhowe]

Somehow i knew you'd say this. I'm not Electric Church, so im not going to say you're a cointelpro agent or anyof that shit, but i will say you are wrong here. The guy was simply asking a question, and they descended upon him with force immediately, as if on cue. Actually, free speech on college campuses has been an ongoing debate for a while, but saying he "entered a voluntary contract therefore he gives up the right to ask a politician a question without being subjected to police brutality" is fallacious on the order of absolute bullshit. Police need to follow a standard of conduct as well, which includes not tasering people who have done no harm and were barely resisting other than verbally.

Rather than the back and forth sparring of this discussion, allow me to put my latest response that I've had with another in a separate forum. It doesn't answer your specific line of thought, but does get to the underpinnings of the position I'm advocating here.

It is interesting the bias that occurs when one knows that Meyers ends up getting tased. I admit, I was very shocked and sickened to watch it the first time around. Back in my college days, I would have been enraged and stopped my inquiry at F* the police, fascism this, police state that. Life, however has taught me that in 999 out of 1000 WTF moments in life, there's another, more complete side of the story.

This doesn't end up on the videos (because people don't start recording it until after Meyer's disturbance), but the first hand account is that Meyers was in line at a different microphone, Kerry announces that he only has time for one more question. Meyers then races across the auditorium to the empty mic on the right side and interrupts the next person who was supposed to have the last question. Kerry agrees to come back to Meyers after the other person's question is asked. Meyer's racing and interruption is what brought the police officers over there.

His running in the auditorium and his interruption was enough for him to be asked to leave and if he refused, to be forcibly removed.

Continuing on, his mic gets turned off not for mentioning Skull and Bones, but for saying "blowjob". There are other angles and you'll see what looks to be an administrator, who is behind the female police officer, motion to have the mic turned off at that point. S&B is brought up after the administrator requests the mic cut.

There is a mistaken notion that the University of Florida is "public property". While it is true that it operates partly through taxpayer funding, the property is not dedicated for the public's use. It is rather dedicated for student's use and for the use that the University of Florida board of regents determines. Student is a different class than public. In order to be a student, one voluntarily agrees to a restraint on their speech to that which is respectful of others in the campus community. The University of Florida extends to each of the participants of that forum an invitation. Meyer's invitation was withdrawn before Kerry said that he would answer the question. The officers allowed the question be asked out of courtesy, not obligation.

It is worrisome to me as a proponent of limited government and an advocate of great personal freedoms through great personal responsibility that so many agree with Meyer's actions. The "Great Experiment" cannot succeed if we as individuals do not take it upon ourselves to be respectful of the rights and freedoms of those around us. In the freest country that recognizes a need for government to protect our liberties, the proper role of government and by extension police is to uphold our contracts. Meyers had a voluntary, social contract with every individual in that auditorium, which he broke. It is the responsibility of the government to protect the liberties of each individual in that auditorium by removing the individual who breached the contract. If one does not recognize that, then The People have offered no consideration upon which The Government can be obliged to protect anything.

We can argue on the proper manner in which to remove him, but there should be no wavering on the necessity to remove him.

[TheEvilDetector]

Rather than the back and forth sparring of this discussion, allow me to put my latest response that I've had with another in a separate forum. It doesn't answer your specific line of thought, but does get to the underpinnings of the position I'm advocating here.

It is interesting the bias that occurs when one knows that Meyers ends up getting tased. I admit, I was very shocked and sickened to watch it the first time around. Back in my college days, I would have been enraged and stopped my inquiry at F* the police, fascism this, police state that. Life, however has taught me that in 999 out of 1000 WTF moments in life, there's another, more complete side of the story.


Translation: When I was younger I did not like to see police brutality and had an instinctual aversion to it. Now that I am older, I think it can be justified.



This doesn't end up on the videos (because people don't start recording it until after Meyer's disturbance), but the first hand account is that Meyers was in line at a different microphone, Kerry announces that he only has time for one more question. Meyers then races across the auditorium to the empty mic on the right side and interrupts the next person who was supposed to have the last question.


Is "racing" to a different microphone a 1st degree felony?
Did he "race" in a dangerous manner? Was anyone in danger from the "race"?
How many lives were lost?

Furthermore, do you have a video showing the "interruption"?



Kerry agrees to come back to Meyers after the other person's question is asked.


Kerry agreed to answer the question.



Meyer's racing and interruption is what brought the police officers over there.


How do you know exactly what brought the police officers there?
Sources?



His running in the auditorium and his interruption was enough for him to be asked to leave and if he refused, to be forcibly removed.


Sources for your claims?



Continuing on, his mic gets turned off not for mentioning Skull and Bones, but for saying "blowjob". There are other angles and you'll see what looks to be an administrator, who is behind the female police officer, motion to have the mic turned off at that point. S&B is brought up after the administrator requests the mic cut.


So what? I mean seriously. Can people not handle someone talking anymore?
Oh no, he said the boo-boo word. Lets get the cops to physically force him out. He is a dangerous man, because he said the boo-boo word.



There is a mistaken notion that the University of Florida is "public property". While it is true that it operates partly through taxpayer funding, the property is not dedicated for the public's use. It is rather dedicated for student's use and for the use that the University of Florida board of regents determines. Student is a different class than public. In order to be a student, one voluntarily agrees to a restraint on their speech to that which is respectful of others in the campus community. The University of Florida extends to each of the participants of that forum an invitation. Meyer's invitation was withdrawn before Kerry said that he would answer the question. The officers allowed the question be asked out of courtesy, not obligation.


By Whom/When/How was the invitation withdrawn?
Officers have no business allowing someone freedom of speech.
We do not need permission of the police to practice freedom of speech.



It is worrisome to me as a proponent of limited government and an advocate of great personal freedoms through great personal responsibility that so many agree with Meyer's actions.


You sound like a hypocrite.



The "Great Experiment" cannot succeed if we as individuals do not take it upon ourselves to be respectful of the rights and freedoms of those around us.


No shit.



In the freest country that recognizes a need for government to protect our liberties, the proper role of government and by extension police is to uphold our contracts.


Correct.



Meyers had a voluntary, social contract with every individual in that auditorium, which he broke.


Nonsense.

Individuals do not hold any social contracts with other individuals by default.

Individuals are free to act according to their own free will at all times in all places.

The range of actions that can be taken is much reduced in prison for example.

If individuals break any criminal law then they get punished.

However, the best way to teach morality is at home or community.

That way there are less casualties (ie. prison population), from individuals
engaging on a path of immorality that can lead to criminal activity.

Police do not teach morality very well, they are experienced at enforcing criminal law though.
How good they are at doing so is an open question.

The only social contract that exists is between government and the individuals, the constitution.



It is the responsibility of the government to protect the liberties of each individual in that auditorium by removing the individual who breached the contract.


Responsibility of the police is to enforce criminal law period.
Citizenry can take care of the rest.

As far as protecting liberties is concerned. Physical assault of the person who is
asking questions (with permission of the senator of all things) is not protecting
anyone's liberties, in fact the opposite is true.

It sends a chilling effect throughout the crowd, that controversial questions may result in these kinds of actions.

All other things being what they were, if that man had nothing but praise for Kerry, I believe
none of this would have happened ie. the officers would not have physically restrained and escorted the man out.



If one does not recognize that, then The People have offered no consideration upon which The Government can be obliged to protect anything.


You are muddying the waters here with your logic.



We can argue on the proper manner in which to remove him, but there should be no wavering on the necessity to remove him.

I do not believe there was any justification in forcibly removing him.

Here are valid reasons in my mind as to why there may be a necessity to remove a man from a public forum:

1. Criminal Activity

2. Formal Request of the Venue Proprietors or Administrative Personnel responsible for the venue made to the person for that person to leave the premises.
(as far as I know they should not need any reason at all to do so) which if not followed leads to 1.

Did 1 or 2 occur?

I very much doubt it.

If I am wrong, then please put sources to confirm where I am wrong.

Thank you.

[cjhowe]

The Incident Report filed by the police:

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/09/18/offense.report.072274.pdf

[cjhowe]

Of note, I came across the incident report after TheEvilDetector's request for sources. The original sources that I had gotten the information from are buried amongst the now thousands of blog posts about the event. The officers' incident reports outline what student were reported to have said in those other sources. Watching the video after reading the incident report makes this whole event much less, well, eventful.

[bygone]

The video makes it appear that the first thing the police did was to grab him. I think the first thing they should have tried was to ask him to leave, not grab him and attempt to walk him out. If he refused to leave, then I would assume they had a good reason at that point to arrest him. If he resisted at that point, then they had a good reason to restrain, and even taser him if he continued to resist... rather than beat him into the handcuffs, or pull his shoulder out of socket to get him into the cuffs.

Unless there is something the video doesn't show, or things I cannot hear, then I can't agree with the way they handled this man. His question asking should not have lead to physical restraint as a first course of remedy. That is a poor and dangerous policy for both the police and the person they are trying to remove. If that's the way this happened its ... in my opinion ... the reason why this ended the way that it did. It's also the reason that there is enough sympathy for him for the students to protest at the station for the removal of tasers from the campus.

I don't think that they shouldn't have asked him to leave; I just think they went about it in the wrong way and should be better trained to deal with this kind of situation.

Having said that Andrew is an idiot for resisting arrest. To answer his question of "What did I do?" ... you refused to leave peacefully, that's what you did. They would have just walked you out. But you knew that, didn't you Andrew?


Andrew Meyer and Ron Paul and all the kooks of the world get their chance to speak here in America.

If I didn't know better I'd think they just called a congressman a kook. I guess they get their say too. Maybe we ought to ask them to leave the internet.

This has nothing to do with Ron Paul. I guess if Andrew believes in Jesus that makes Jesus a kook too...

[devil21]

A skinny white kid "elbowing 6 officers" is reason to shock someone enough that they may die from it? Gimme a break. Im sure this police report doesnt have any inaccuracies....lol. EDIT: I wish I was the server admin of their email list.

[RockEnds]

Well, I just spoke with two 21-year-old boys today who are pissed off enough to attend a caucus because of this video. Unless, of course, you can talk them out of it, cjhowe. They came to me asking what they need to do to vote. Should I refer them to you so you can talk them down quickly before they make fools out of themselves?

Maybe someone could suggest another candidate they could support. We don't want anyone who wants to limit police powers or question the motives of politicians in an educational environment supporting this campaign. Where should I send them? I mean, jeez, they might end up becoming so politically motivated they would stoop to marching in an anti-war rally. God, we don't want to associate with those people, either. What should I do?

[austinphish]

No surprise he is a Ron Paul supporter. I am proud to hear that. He is clearly not a part of the sheeple.

[austinphish]

Don't argue with the police. They WILL mess you up. It's their job.



Oh, you WILL be cuffed, if the police want you cuffed. Those bracelets will either go on peacefully, or with 8 people standing on your prone form with a knee in the back of your neck.

DON'T FIGHT WITH POLICE.

Dummies. :rolleyes:

Sean, you clearly lean authoritarian. The job of Police is to "mess you up" - wtf are you thinking?

[austinphish]

Wow the more I read this thread, the more I find members of the community who "just don't get it." No one should be tazered for speaking in public under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES EVER!

[devil21]

There might be something in here about "high profile arrests":

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

[AlexAmore]

No problem - he was asking to be taken down by the PO-LEECE, and he was taken down. Now he needs to sit down and STFU.

When you're being disruptive and resisting arrest, it's no longer free speech.

Gosh if our founding fathers followed your advice we would be living under a king.

If Martin Luther King Jr followed your advice then he would have "sit down and STFU" because the PO-LEECE said too (the police of course did more than merely verbalize it). Blacks could still be oppressed to this day.

Rosa Parks also comes to mind. When Parks refused to give up her seat, a PO-LEECE officer arrested her. As the officer took her away, she recalled that she asked, "Why do you push us around?" The officer's response as she remembered it was, "I don't know, but the law's the law, and you're under arrest." She later said, "I only knew that, as I was being arrested, that it was the very last time that I would ever ride in humiliation of this kind."

But yeah i'm sure all the police today are perfect and unbiased in their job.

[SeanEdwards]

Sean, you clearly lean authoritarian. The job of Police is to "mess you up" - wtf are you thinking?

Did I endorse what the police did? I merely pointed out the fact that police train to intimidate and subdue with force anyone that crosses them. When they decide they want to put cuffs on you, they will put the freakin cuffs on you, and screaming for help and jumping around wont do a damn thing but get you a face full of pepper spray or a taser up your ass. Or shot.

Don't fight the police, even if they're wrong. Hell, espescially when they're wrong. They've got guns, and they shoot people. They've got about 100,000 laws they can convict you of breaking at any given time, regardless of what you are doing. They can ruin your whole damn day.

I heard they're charging that guy with felony resisting arrest. What a nightmare. Maybe he gets off, after a bunch of court grief and wins a lawsuit against the cops, or maybe he gets to spend time in one of our fine correctional institutions and gains a criminal record. All because he decided to freak out when cops tried to escort him out of the building.

[Geronimo]

Did anyone happen to notice what book (http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Madhouse-Baghdad-Orleans-Sordid-Secrets/dp/0452288312) that kid was holding?

Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast. (http://www.gregpalast.com/order-the-book/)

[Ozwest]

Too many people ready to accept authority from bald headed steroid tatt monsters!

[LibertyEagle]

I heard they're charging that guy with felony resisting arrest. What a nightmare. Maybe he gets off, after a bunch of court grief and wins a lawsuit against the cops, or maybe he gets to spend time in one of our fine correctional institutions and gains a criminal record. All because he decided to freak out when cops tried to escort him out of the building.

They're going to ruin this kid's life by charging him with a FELONY? :mad:

[ButchHowdy]

Looks like a 90/10% split here

For you 90%'ers: Thank you for your vision and recognizing the the plight of our Republic

For you 10%'ers: Throw that F***ing AM radio in the garbage already!!

[LibertyEagle]

Wow the more I read this thread, the more I find members of the community who "just don't get it." No one should be tazered for speaking in public under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES EVER!

Well, maybe if they were holding a bomb, or something....

But doing nothing violent. You betcha. I agree. This is pure craziness and it concerns me that more people are not upset about this. That is how propaganda works. You get desensitized to these kinds of things and learn to accept them. Before long, you will be willing to turn in your neighbor.

[allyinoh]

Andrew Meyer is a member of the Gainesville, FL Ron Paul meet-up group. Just confirmed this on Google.

Which I have absolutely no problem with.

My husband and I looked it up and found no one by the name of Andrew Meyer in the Gainesville Meetup. Closest was just a guy with no pic named "Andy."

We also looked in the surrounding area's and found no one by this name.

What site did you see this on or do you have a link?

[cjhowe]

The video makes it appear that the first thing the police did was to grab him. I think the first thing they should have tried was to ask him to leave, not grab him and attempt to walk him out. If he refused to leave, then I would assume they had a good reason at that point to arrest him. If he resisted at that point, then they had a good reason to restrain, and even taser him if he continued to resist... rather than beat him into the handcuffs, or pull his shoulder out of socket to get him into the cuffs.

Unless there is something the video doesn't show, or things I cannot hear, then I can't agree with the way they handled this man. His question asking should not have lead to physical restraint as a first course of remedy. That is a poor and dangerous policy for both the police and the person they are trying to remove. If that's the way this happened its ... in my opinion ... the reason why this ended the way that it did. It's also the reason that there is enough sympathy for him for the students to protest at the station for the removal of tasers from the campus.

I don't think that they shouldn't have asked him to leave; I just think they went about it in the wrong way and should be better trained to deal with this kind of situation.


If you read the incident report that I linked to, you will find that is exactly what happened.

To the rest of you, I find it strange the lengths people go to justify their initial overreaction. People are rightfully upset when they see someone being tased. However, they go and attack the initial cause of action and claim fault with that. People in this forum have done this countless times.

9/11 truthers do this: upset about our homeland being attacked, concoct a different set of reality to blame it on the government because we can't get justice from those that did it.

Income tax protesters do this: Upset about the harm that the income tax does to individuals, make up a story that the tax doesn't even exist to make the government look reasonable instead of the people.

Federal Reserve Conspiracy: Upset about what the Federal Reserve has done to the value of our currency (even though since most of you are in debt because of poor consumerism, devaluing the currency is actually in your benefit, but that's a topic for a different day) so you make up how it was all started by some evil plan.

Get real people. You have every right to be upset and we have every right to question and effect change in procedure and training in the use of tasers but please look at the facts before you hold Meyer blameless. It was an escalation, all of Meyer's doing. Every point of escalation put the officers' responses on the table. Could the officers made better choices, of course. But the escalation did put the choices they made on the table.

[Chester Copperpot]

If you read the incident report that I linked to, you will find that is exactly what happened.

To the rest of you, I find it strange the lengths people go to justify their initial overreaction. People are rightfully upset when they see someone being tased. However, they go and attack the initial cause of action and claim fault with that. People in this forum have done this countless times.

9/11 truthers do this: upset about our homeland being attacked, concoct a different set of reality to blame it on the government because we can't get justice from those that did it.

Income tax protesters do this: Upset about the harm that the income tax does to individuals, make up a story that the tax doesn't even exist to make the government look reasonable instead of the people.

Federal Reserve Conspiracy: Upset about what the Federal Reserve has done to the value of our currency (even though since most of you are in debt because of poor consumerism, devaluing the currency is actually in your benefit, but that's a topic for a different day) so you make up how it was all started by some evil plan.

Get real people. You have every right to be upset and we have every right to question and effect change in procedure and training in the use of tasers but please look at the facts before you hold Meyer blameless. It was an escalation, all of Meyer's doing. Every point of escalation put the officers' responses on the table. Could the officers made better choices, of course. But the escalation did put the choices they made on the table.

So we should never ask any questions I guess... Just trust the government and everything they say eh??? I guess Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman.. Im glad I believe the govt. I feel so much better now... (sarcasm)

[paulitics]

If you read the incident report that I linked to, you will find that is exactly what happened.

To the rest of you, I find it strange the lengths people go to justify their initial overreaction. People are rightfully upset when they see someone being tased. However, they go and attack the initial cause of action and claim fault with that. People in this forum have done this countless times.

9/11 truthers do this: upset about our homeland being attacked, concoct a different set of reality to blame it on the government because we can't get justice from those that did it.

Income tax protesters do this: Upset about the harm that the income tax does to individuals, make up a story that the tax doesn't even exist to make the government look reasonable instead of the people.

Federal Reserve Conspiracy: Upset about what the Federal Reserve has done to the value of our currency (even though since most of you are in debt because of poor consumerism, devaluing the currency is actually in your benefit, but that's a topic for a different day) so you make up how it was all started by some evil plan.

Get real people. You have every right to be upset and we have every right to question and effect change in procedure and training in the use of tasers but please look at the facts before you hold Meyer blameless. It was an escalation, all of Meyer's doing. Every point of escalation put the officers' responses on the table. Could the officers made better choices, of course. But the escalation did put the choices they made on the table.

I'm sorry but the incident report is not exactly how it happened. Just because the police report says so, does not make it true. What is true is what you see with your own eyes and what transpired that day....this can hopefully be decided in a court of law with a fair judge. And there was absolutely no reason for a taser. Cops that would taser someone like that are the same ones who would exagerate and lie in a police report. I bet you don't think cops lie in a police report do you?


If cops can taser in situations like this and people like you justify it, then were going to see alot more needless tasering and police brutality slipping further into a police state.

[Ozwest]

cjhowe, You Sir are a Conformist. Ron Paul supporters are not .

[ThePieSwindler]

Did I endorse what the police did? I merely pointed out the fact that police train to intimidate and subdue with force anyone that crosses them. When they decide they want to put cuffs on you, they will put the freakin cuffs on you, and screaming for help and jumping around wont do a damn thing but get you a face full of pepper spray or a taser up your ass. Or shot.

Don't fight the police, even if they're wrong. Hell, espescially when they're wrong. They've got guns, and they shoot people. They've got about 100,000 laws they can convict you of breaking at any given time, regardless of what you are doing. They can ruin your whole damn day.

I heard they're charging that guy with felony resisting arrest. What a nightmare. Maybe he gets off, after a bunch of court grief and wins a lawsuit against the cops, or maybe he gets to spend time in one of our fine correctional institutions and gains a criminal record. All because he decided to freak out when cops tried to escort him out of the building.


Absolutely correct, and sort of what i said earlier. The police were wrong for using force to escort him out, but he should have known better than to resist the way he did. Dealing with police is a slippery slope - one wrong move can completely change your life, and there are so many ways police officers can find ways to get more and more hostile/violent with you simply to "react". Police have shot homeless people holding a branch in the shadows because of a "hunch" before - DONT fuck with them, for your own good. It doesnt mean there is not a time and aplace to demand retribution, but it is certainly not when they are bearing down on you. Look at Rodney King - he didnt fight back, and riots resulted and the police got fucked. If you dont fight back and the brutalize you, even the cjhowes of the world have no excuse to say you "got what you deserved
" :p (kiddig kidding). In this case, its much easier to say that.. not because he REALLY deserved it, but because he fell into the trap of resisting the police, even slightly, which set him down on the slippery slope towards many, many more problems.

[bygone]

If you read the incident report that I linked to, you will find that is exactly what happened.

... off-topic ...

Get real people. You have every right to be upset and we have every right to question and effect change in procedure and training in the use of tasers but please look at the facts before you hold Meyer blameless. It was an escalation, all of Meyer's doing. Every point of escalation put the officers' responses on the table. Could the officers made better choices, of course. But the escalation did put the choices they made on the table.

I can't say I think the police report and the video match up. The video quite clearly shows the suit guy giving someone the throat slash signal, and the officer grabbing him without saying anything to him. I'll admit I didn't bother to read the report when I can watch what happened.

I don't hold Meyer blameless. I also seriously question that the officers actions did not cause the reaction recieved. At the very least a few words would have put Andrew completely in the wrong if he refused to leave and then I could have justified what they did to him. As it is it certainly appears that nothing was said before he was grabbed, and then he freaked out. This was a poor choice of action with someone who is obviously already emotionally charged if not paranoid.

There are people here saying that if they want to put you in cuffs they will do just that and resisting will get you beat, tasered, or shot. That's right on the mark. If you have been arrested you know this is true. When they are wrong you can fight that out later, even if you don't trust the court system. What I cannot advise anyone to do would be to catch a felony by doing what this young man did. He got tasered; sure. It could have been a lot worse.

Andrew should not have escalated the situation - I believe that my original post bears this out. However, cjhowe, I ask that you see the other side of the coin - the police should not have encouraged the escalation with a heavy hand. I believe that the fault here is shared, not one-sided. Seeing these stories all the time leads me to believe that the police have a lack of respect for people; much less their rights.

[Question_Authority]

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272616178.shtml


Oh they will try anything in desperation, won't they?

My reply to him:


Who the hell are you, and why is someone giving you space to write this garbage? "A report claims" that the student is "reportedly a Ron Paul supporter"? You noted that "many" say that his speech was being shut down just like Ron Paul...while "sifting through comments"? What comments? From what source? Could you your references be any more vague for coming to these conclusions? And then to use these vague references to smear a good doctor and statesman such as Ron Paul? YOU'RE the kook, buddy. You have major issues. See a doctor.

[angelatc]

Note to self:
1) Buy taser.
2) Institute 3 strikes and your tased ruling in household during football games. Applies to guests, children, adults and especially wives.

I was thinking that perhaps the police should just make us all wear shock collars. Then they could just use all the cameras they're putting on the street corners to keep an eye on us.

We step out of line? BAM! And the 3 best parts?

1. The holy police will kept safe and sound! Gotta put their self nterests above that of the public. No more of this "public servant" nonsense.

2. With the digital technology available, they'll be able to easily slant the evidence in their favor if we protest it. Incident reports and video images will match!

3. The odds of the pesky public taking pictures will diminsh. Without the physical presence of the police, people will be less likely to start making their own spontaneous videos.

[angelatc]

There is the crux that no one wants to accept. Andrew Meyer is a student at the University of Florida. In order to be a student at said University you must _voluntarily enter into a contract that restricts your speech.

If it is receiving federal money, then I believe that the ol' adage "the government shall make no law" should apply.

[misconstrued]

Those aren't even cops they are campus cops.

Campus cops are the worst, most pathetic, barbaric type of cops around.

Always have been...

The taser was excessive force. 6 people can't get handcuffs on?

THEY HAVE NO TRAINING

TRAINING=TASING


The saddest part was that everyone just stood around watching. Doing nothing.

Actually he was handcuffed when they tased him. There is an angle another student shot that clearly shows this. I posted the link in another thread.

[Question_Authority]

It's inappropriate to run it when his time was obviously up, he was obviously being asked to leave, they had to call in the Police to make him leave, and then he resists arrest. Absolutely inappropriate.


I didn't think it was obvious that he was being asked to leave. Kerry said he would answer the question. When he started mentioning Skull and Bones, his mike was cut and he looked around confused and was immediately arrested. When did they ask him to leave?

[Ozwest]

Surely, Law Enforcement techniques are entering the realm of Stazi. If the appearance, attitude and disregard of "oaths" by these Officers does not alarm you, the arrogance and disrespect will continue. Why defend the thuggish behaviour of cowards? Six armed people vs. one unarmed Uni student. Give me a break!

[paulitics]

Surely, Law Enforcement techniques are entering the realm of Stazi. If the appearance, attitude and disregard of "oaths" by these Officers does not alarm you, the arrogance and disrespect will continue. Why defend the thuggish behaviour of cowards? Six armed people vs. one unarmed Uni student. Give me a break!

Exactly. What scares me more than the "thugish" behavior" is the great lengths people will go to defend their illegal behavior. I used not to understand how Germans would submit to the will of the nazis during the 30s. Now I understand why and how given the mindset of people today.

[cjhowe]

So we should never ask any questions I guess... Just trust the government and everything they say eh??? I guess Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman.. Im glad I believe the govt. I feel so much better now... (sarcasm)

Ask questions all you want. Be prepared though to balance your bias with the responses given.


I'm sorry but the incident report is not exactly how it happened. Just because the police report says so, does not make it true. What is true is what you see with your own eyes and what transpired that day....this can hopefully be decided in a court of law with a fair judge. And there was absolutely no reason for a taser. Cops that would taser someone like that are the same ones who would exagerate and lie in a police report. I bet you don't think cops lie in a police report do you?


Just because you have a grainy video from after Meyer's initial disturbance does not make your viewpoint true. There are first hand accounts from students that corroborate the officer's reports. I bet you haven't even read the report the officer's gave. You're just blowing it off because it doesn't agree with your outrage.


If cops can taser in situations like this and people like you justify it, then were going to see alot more needless tasering and police brutality slipping further into a police state.

I am making no judgement on whether a taser _should be used. I am not a police officer. I do not know the threat that is posed to them in similar situations. Certainly hindsight gives us satisfaction that a taser was not necessary in _this incident. Had it ended differently (broken ribs, Meyers forcing his way to his feet and then everyone falling down the stairs, etc), we might think differently. Should officers have more experience with tasers to be able to make the proper judgement call on when use is appropriate? Absolutely. However, I do not think it prudent to remove the taser from an officer's options.


cjhowe, You Sir are a Conformist. Ron Paul supporters are not .

No sir, I am not. I am simply not allowing the emotions from the end result of the altercation to blur the facts of the progression.


I can't say I think the police report and the video match up. The video quite clearly shows the suit guy giving someone the throat slash signal, and the officer grabbing him without saying anything to him. I'll admit I didn't bother to read the report when I can watch what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag
That is only part of what happens. At the 37 second mark in this video the suit tells the officer to ask him to leave. At which point the officer, from her report asks him to come outside with her. At 1:07 the officer and suit exchange words, the police officers report says that she was told to remove him after the question is asked. At the 1:28 mark he says blowjob and everyone looks up to the, what I presume is the audio guys to have his mic cut. At 1:33 before Meyers says S&B, the suit is beginning the throat cut signal. At 1:37, from the officers report, she asked Meyers to come outside with her. He turned back around and ignored her request at which point she grabbed his arm.


<snip>
Andrew should not have escalated the situation - I believe that my original post bears this out. However, cjhowe, I ask that you see the other side of the coin - the police should not have encouraged the escalation with a heavy hand. I believe that the fault here is shared, not one-sided. Seeing these stories all the time leads me to believe that the police have a lack of respect for people; much less their rights.

From the officer's report, he was asked three times to come outside, once before the video begins, a second time when he is going no where with his question, and a third at the conclusion of the questioning.


Actually he was handcuffed when they tased him. There is an angle another student shot that clearly shows this. I posted the link in another thread.

No, he was not. One hand was cuffed, the other was still free and flailing. At 3:11 in this video, his left hand is clearly shown not in a handcuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE76LQwT6qA

[Ozwest]

paultics, Especially from Ron Paul supporters. Liberty.Freedom of Speech. Right to assemble...What gives?

[cjhowe]

paultics, Especially from Ron Paul supporters. Liberty.Freedom of Speech. Right to assemble...What gives?

Personal Responsibility is the cornerstone of all of those.

[Ozwest]

cjhowe, Let me guess... You are a lawyer-you are studying law-you are associated with law enforcement directly or through Family connections. Which is it?

[bygone]

That is only part of what happens. At the 37 second mark in this video the suit tells the officer to ask him to leave. At which point the officer, from her report asks him to come outside with her. At 1:07 the officer and suit exchange words, the police officers report says that she was told to remove him after the question is asked. At the 1:28 mark he says blowjob and everyone looks up to the, what I presume is the audio guys to have his mic cut. At 1:33 before Meyers says S&B, the suit is beginning the throat cut signal. At 1:37, from the officers report, she asked Meyers to come outside with her. He turned back around and ignored her request at which point she grabbed his arm.

From the officer's report, he was asked three times to come outside, once before the video begins, a second time when he is going no where with his question, and a third at the conclusion of the questioning.

This version of events makes far more sense. I also agree that a taser should be one of the officers options, and people that abuse that option should be dealt with, such as the officer that shocked that lady twice after she was already in handcuffs (this story carried today by MSM). That kind of thing isn't the fault of the taser.

I've got no problem with officers using non-lethal force to enforce compliance with lawful requests. This version of events also makes Andrew a paranoid idiot.

The article (the original subject of the thread) is trash. It did get your attention, and mine, and many others too, which was the objective that it accomplished. I doubt they would be happy with the opinion it has helped me form of the writer.

[Ozwest]

I have a problem with Authority. I'm independent, insubordinate, and contrarian ! I am a Libertarian.

[cjhowe]

cjhowe, Let me guess... You are a lawyer-you are studying law-you are associated with law enforcement directly or through Family connections. Which is it?

Nope, just another freedom loving individual who is pissed at BOTH those that are limiting freedoms (government) and those that that cannot accept personal responsibility and make a spectacle of themselves that encourages government to limit those freedoms (Andrew Meyer, et al)

[drpiotrowski]

I can't say I think the police report and the video match up. The video quite clearly shows the suit guy giving someone the throat slash signal, and the officer grabbing him without saying anything to him. I'll admit I didn't bother to read the report when I can watch what happened.

I don't hold Meyer blameless. I also seriously question that the officers actions did not cause the reaction recieved. At the very least a few words would have put Andrew completely in the wrong if he refused to leave and then I could have justified what they did to him. As it is it certainly appears that nothing was said before he was grabbed, and then he freaked out. This was a poor choice of action with someone who is obviously already emotionally charged if not paranoid.

There are people here saying that if they want to put you in cuffs they will do just that and resisting will get you beat, tasered, or shot. That's right on the mark. If you have been arrested you know this is true. When they are wrong you can fight that out later, even if you don't trust the court system. What I cannot advise anyone to do would be to catch a felony by doing what this young man did. He got tasered; sure. It could have been a lot worse.

Andrew should not have escalated the situation - I believe that my original post bears this out. However, cjhowe, I ask that you see the other side of the coin - the police should not have encouraged the escalation with a heavy hand. I believe that the fault here is shared, not one-sided. Seeing these stories all the time leads me to believe that the police have a lack of respect for people; much less their rights.


Well said.

Police reports are notoriously inaccurate -- filled with lies of omission, misquotations, and other errors. Remember, police are not infallible -- they are people too, and subject to showing only their side of the story just like everyone else. That's the reason we have a court system. Otherwise we could just hand the judge a police report and be done with it. Police reports need to be looked at with intense scrutiny, else you run the danger of giving police free reign to do whatever they want.

That's not to say that the police were indeed wrong, but we shouldn't rely solely on a police report that naturally paints the police as acting in code of conduct when there are noted discrepencies. Testimony can be fabricated more easily than a dozen videos of the same event from different angles.

[Ozwest]

As Ron Paul supporters aren't we making spectacles of ourselves? LOL

[drpiotrowski]

Nope, just another freedom loving individual who is pissed at BOTH those that are limiting freedoms (government) and those that that cannot accept personal responsibility and make a spectacle of themselves that encourages government to limit those freedoms (Andrew Meyer, et al)

I agree completely. People can't scream "free speech" when it's clear that it was a privately held, moderated event. Rights come with inherent responsibilities. But the issue at hand is whether the police were acting according to the situation or if they were being excessive.

Perhaps legal action was necessary to take against Meyer for disturbing the event, if the administrators saw fit, but police actions need to fit the threat -- and it certainly didn't look like Meyer was a threat enough to require the treatment he received.

[cjhowe]

I have a problem with Authority. I'm independent, insubordinate, and contrarian ! I am a Libertarian.

No, you are an anarchist. Not that there is anything wrong with that in particular. Simply understand that if we operated in anarchy, there would be no one to protect any of your natural rights except yourself. We have free will. We can do _anything that we so desire, so far as it is within our capabilities. We institute governments as a restraint on our free will. We make the observation that we are better off when we can call on others for the protection of certain rights. However, in order to contract that observation, we must offer consideration. That consideration is personal responsibility.

[Ozwest]

cjhowe, WHOA! If I am a Anarchist then you are a Tarot card reader. Let's not jump to conclusions over a couple of posts.

[leipo]

Well said.

Police reports are notoriously inaccurate -- filled with lies of omission, misquotations, and other errors. Remember, police are not infallible -- they are people too, and subject to showing only their side of the story just like everyone else. That's the reason we have a court system. Otherwise we could just hand the judge a police report and be done with it. Police reports need to be looked at with intense scrutiny, else you run the danger of giving police free reign to do whatever they want.

That's not to say that the police were indeed wrong, but we shouldn't rely solely on a police report that naturally paints the police as acting in code of conduct when there are noted discrepencies. Testimony can be fabricated more easily than a dozen videos of the same event from different angles.

Yeah, that report is full of misquotations.

[mdh]

Libertarianism is a secret society. The big secret? We're all anarchists.

[cjhowe]

Yeah, that report is full of misquotations.

That there are misquotations goes to show that people interpreted the events in question differently. This doesn't go to fascism, but to not having the benefit of 20/20 hindsight when making decisions. Meyer misunderstood the situation as well. He was under the impression that he was being placed under arrest at the mic when in fact he was simply being taken outside.

[SewrRatt]

New angle video released!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eNLQY3bQyaM

[bygone]

That there are misquotations goes to show that people interpreted the events in question differently. This doesn't go to fascism, but to not having the benefit of 20/20 hindsight when making decisions. Meyer misunderstood the situation as well. He was under the impression that he was being placed under arrest at the mic when in fact he was simply being taken outside.

He might have said that but I don't for a second believe that. He brought someone to videotape it and was looking for trouble. He got it.

I think he knew that he could have been walked out and made a deliberate choice not to do that. The officers still must act accordingly regardless of his intentions.

LMAO at the video Sewr!

[leipo]

That there are misquotations goes to show that people interpreted the events in question differently. This doesn't go to fascism, but to not having the benefit of 20/20 hindsight when making decisions. Meyer misunderstood the situation as well. He was under the impression that he was being placed under arrest at the mic when in fact he was simply being taken outside.

I think he didn't make a difference between arrest & detainment at that point. Nor did i when watching the video.
BTW, i think the tasering wasn't that big of a deal. I just don't understand why they asked him to leave and forced him when he didn't comply. And if you read the police report you linked there is no mention of "inciting a riot" by the officers. Isn't that strange?

[Ozwest]

cjhowe... I am a law abiding citizen and definitely not an anarchist. I do however take issue when elected governments abuse the authority entrusted to them by their electors... In a University setting, with enrolled students, and in a public forum questions from the audience (paritcularly when the speaker wishes to reply) should be tolerated no matter their content. Youthful exuberence should not be suppressed... Officers of the Law licensed to carry firearms and tasers should be tactful and employ the MINIMUN of force required to attain peaceful outcomes...Displays of "bully boy" aggression amplifies the increasing concerns of citizens regarding their freedoms and personal safety...Would you hire these steroid monkeys as crowd control at your next kegger?

[Stealth4]

Another article ... same subject ... if you comment please dont mention conspiracy theories. Perhaps mention why you like RP and this is an article without merit - an article based on rumor.

And perhaps more importantly - why does it matter if this one person supports RP, does that mean all RP supporters are like him?

http://www.thesequitur.com/content/view/1625/43/

[cjhowe]

I think he didn't make a difference between arrest & detainment at that point. Nor did i when watching the video.
BTW, i think the tasering wasn't that big of a deal. I just don't understand why they asked him to leave and forced him when he didn't comply. And if you read the police report you linked there is no mention of "inciting a riot" by the officers. Isn't that strange?

From the report, he was being asked to leave because he was a disruption. According to the police reports, before he made it to the mic that he spoke from, he was a disruption. He barged down the stairs yelling and interrupted Kerry. This is all before the video begins. The reason others started recording him was because of the disruption.

[SewrRatt]

Another article ... same subject ... if you comment please dont mention conspiracy theories. Perhaps mention why you like RP and this is an article without merit - an article based on rumor.

And perhaps more importantly - why does it matter if this one person supports RP, does that mean all RP supporters are like him?

http://www.thesequitur.com/content/view/1625/43/

I love how they're called the sequitur but they resort to attacking people based on complete non-sequiturs.

[johnrocks]

So a kid gets tasered for asking a question and they have you questioning if HE did something wrong. Or if HE is to blame for getting 50,000 volts while a half dozen police are piled on him. As much as you support Ron Paul, they even have YOU questioning this kids patriotism? Unbelievable. Are you sure you support RP?

Old thread but I have to respond, I have supported Ron aul since I first heard of him in the 80's:mad: If you don't understand how the MSM spins things to make Paul look bad then I can't help you.

[Swmorgan77]

Actually this guy is indeed a member of a Ron Paul meet-up group in Florida.

I am proud to be associated with him as a fellow Ron Paul supporter.

[ButchHowdy]

I'll take him!

"Give us your tired, your tazed, your poor huddled masses . . . !"

[SouthernGuy15]

Mainstream Republicans think all Ron Paul supporters are nutcases simply becaause:

1) We demand a STRICT interpretation of the entire Bill of Rights.

2) We demand the government be reduced tremendously in size. This includes an immediate end to borrowing and an immediate end to printing money.

3) We demand the IRS be abolished immediately.

4) We demand the troops be brought home from Iraq immediately and without excuses.


To be blunt, small government and freedom are considered CRAZY and HERETICAL ideas by BIG GOVERNMENT TYRANTS!

[JosephTheLibertarian]

whatever happened to honest journalism?

[OptionsTrader]

Regarding the words "kook, loon, crazy"

Take a look at this 1940s/50s video explaining propaganda techniques. This kind of name calling propaganda isn't anything new.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEy7DX7OLcE

[StateofTrance]

I hope Andrew Meyer is still around.