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ourlongroad
05-08-2009, 10:51 AM
I'm closely watching as this agenda develops and plays-out. I'm not going to comment right now cause I can't yet figure out what is going on, but there is most definitely an agenda rolling out in front of our eyes. Here's the latest video, this one is from Rhodes scholar Rachel Maddow....

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&brand=msnbc&vid=cacdc479-1f40-4cbc-8fe6-bc18169a829a

Gotta keep ‘em separated
May 7: President Obama proclaimed for Americans to pray today, since it’s the National Day of Prayer. The religious right is criticizing the proclamation because he didn’t do it like President Bush. Whatever happened to the separation of church and state? Rachel Maddow is joined by Interfaith Alliance President Rev. C Welton Gaddy.

max
05-08-2009, 11:29 AM
Why such hatred of all things Christian????

Obama was quite open about having the first ever Passover Seder in the White House, so why all the fuss about praying with a bunch of Christians???

Hmmm...let's have a closer look at Obama's kosher handlers

Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel (his dad was an Israeli terrorist)
Chief Adviser David Axelrod
Budget Director Peter Orzag
Treasury Secretary Tim Geitner
Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke
Economic adviser Larry Summers
Economic adviser Robert Rubin
Economic adviser Robert Reich
Economic adviser Paul Volcker
Fed adviser Alan Greenspan
House banking Chairman Barney Frank.
Obama money man George Soros

oy vey!

dannno
05-08-2009, 11:35 AM
Why is there a law that says the President has to pray Christian prayers with everybody today?

I didn't see the clip. I dunno how much they railed against Christianity.. I'm not against Christians, but I don't really see this as a Christian nation either. I know way too many people who are NOT Christian.

nate895
05-08-2009, 11:38 AM
Why is there a law that says the President has to pray Christian prayers with everybody today?

I didn't see the clip. I dunno how much they railed against Christianity.. I'm not against Christians, but I don't really see this as a Christian nation either. I know way too many people who are NOT Christian.

We are the most "churched" country in the industrial world. Seven of ten people, at least, are Christians of some variety. They should be able to express themselves religiously in the public square. Whether or not a National Day of Prayer is a good idea, is another question entirely.

fedup100
05-08-2009, 12:13 PM
Why is there a law that says the President has to pray Christian prayers with everybody today?

I didn't see the clip. I dunno how much they railed against Christianity.. I'm not against Christians, but I don't really see this as a Christian nation either. I know way too many people who are NOT Christian.

And now you know why she's in the shitter, hows that working for you?

fedup100
05-08-2009, 12:16 PM
Why such hatred of all things Christian????

Obama was quite open about having the first ever Passover Seder in the White House, so why all the fuss about praying with a bunch of Christians???

Hmmm...let's have a closer look at Obama's kosher handlers

Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel (his dad was an Israeli terrorist)
Chief Adviser David Axelrod
Budget Director Peter Orzag
Treasury Secretary Tim Geitner
Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke
Economic adviser Larry Summers
Economic adviser Robert Rubin
Economic adviser Robert Reich
Economic adviser Paul Volcker
Fed adviser Alan Greenspan
House banking Chairman Barney Frank.
Obama money man George Soros

oy vey!

The answer to the question is, he is not a christian. That phony church he went to was a front for a Muslim church. I have never heard reverend Wright EVER utter the name of Jesus, not once. Any Christian that voted for this liar deserves what they are getting.

Secondly, the fake jew owns us and their "real" religion of anti-christ will be practiced and put before you.

PaulaGem
05-08-2009, 12:20 PM
Fundamentalist Christians need to realize that every time they they claim this country for "Christianity" they contribute to a backlash that they then percieve as "persecution of Christians".

The concept of this country as "Judeo-Christian" relates is cultural NOT religious. There is a difference.

The founding concept behind the formation of this country is rule by consent of the governed - not which religious mythology you buy into. I liked the Maddox piece and totally agree.

By the way, I am a Christian, but I fellowship with people of Spirit no matter what path they follow. Christianity is part of my cultural heritage, just like being Scots-Irish, I also believe that it is "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" to try to direct the Spriritual Path of another (like trying to evangelize them). Share the Light that is within you and God will bless you and those around you.

nate895
05-08-2009, 12:22 PM
Fundamentalist Christians need to realize that every time they they claim this country for "Christianity" they contribute to a backlash that they then percieve as "persecution of Christians".

The concept of this country as "Judeo-Christian" relates is cultural NOT religious. There is a difference.

The founding concept behind the formation of this country is rule by consent of the governed - not which religious mythology you buy into. I liked the Maddox piece and totally agree.

By the way, I am a Christian, but I fellowship with people of Spirit no matter what path they follow. Christianity is part of my cultural heritage, just like being Scots-Irish, I also believe that it is "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" to try to direct the Spriritual Path of another (like trying to evangelize them). Share the Light that is within you and God will bless you and those around you.

Evangelizing is a duty of all Christians. You are supposed to show people the light of the Lord when you get the opportunity to do so.

fisharmor
05-08-2009, 12:22 PM
As a Christian, churchgoing man, I would like to inform you all that I have almost nothing in common with fedup100.

And that is the problem with the national day of prayer.

Coaxing a believing Christian of one denomination into praying with a Christian of another denomination was, at a point in history not too long ago, grounds for trading matchlock volleys.

The separation of Church and State was not meant to protect the secular. It is meant to protect fedup100 and fisharmor from each other.

nate895
05-08-2009, 12:28 PM
As a Christian, churchgoing man, I would like to inform you all that I have almost nothing in common with fedup100.

And that is the problem with the national day of prayer.

Coaxing a believing Christian of one denomination into praying with a Christian of another denomination was, at a point in history not too long ago, grounds for trading matchlock volleys.

The separation of Church and State was not meant to protect the secular. It is meant to protect fedup100 and fisharmor from each other.

I believe in the separation of church and state, but people take the "wall of separation" Jefferson spoke of as a concrete mass that is totally impenetrable. At some point, it goes from separation of church and state to state-recognized atheism. Christianity should be able to be expressed in government buildings, along with other religions. The wall should be full of windows and doors, not the solid concrete mass that surrounds a prison.

dannno
05-08-2009, 12:35 PM
And now you know why she's in the shitter, hows that working for you?

Most Christians are statists. There are good Christians and there are good non-Christians.

zach
05-08-2009, 12:36 PM
Hold up.

First, generalizing all people within a religion and calling them aggressively bigoted is not a good basis for an argument. It's like saying all politicians are crooked. However, generalizing a whole nation into being against one religion is not a good basis for feeling persecuted. It's like saying "Everybody's out to get me, and I'm so lonely" because you're wanting to be known as the moralistic soldier for God, when in reality, you might be looking self-righteous. There are crooks within every group that will work for a specific agenda in mind; however, this doesn't mean that the participants of the group are aware of or even care about the agenda. Some are just wanting to be happy with their lives.

IMHO.

Annihilia
05-08-2009, 12:56 PM
As a Christian, churchgoing man, I would like to inform you all that I have almost nothing in common with fedup100.

And that is the problem with the national day of prayer.

Coaxing a believing Christian of one denomination into praying with a Christian of another denomination was, at a point in history not too long ago, grounds for trading matchlock volleys.

The separation of Church and State was not meant to protect the secular. It is meant to protect fedup100 and fisharmor from each other.

Well said. Finally some sanity in this thread.

I don't particularly have a problem if Obama, Bush, or any public official prays to Jesus, Allah, or Odin. As an atheist I don't think there is anything I could care less about as it affects me in no way.

I know enought about religion to say that spiritual matters are inherently personal. To mix church and state will only corrupt the former as the state is already a vessel of power abuse.

Look what happened to something as noble and pure as charity.. We got social security and the rest of the welfare state out of it.

Uriel999
05-08-2009, 01:16 PM
Why is there a law that says the President has to pray Christian prayers with everybody today?

I didn't see the clip. I dunno how much they railed against Christianity.. I'm not against Christians, but I don't really see this as a Christian nation either. I know way too many people who are NOT Christian.

Actually it was a very well done piece. It in no way attempted to "rail" against Christianity.

Ozwest
05-08-2009, 01:51 PM
I'm an Atheist.

I read Thomas Jefferson, and don't feel excluded.

Those of you who are fixated.

Pull your heads out.

silverhawks
05-08-2009, 02:21 PM
There should NOT be a National Day of Prayer.

Separation of church and state is there for a reason, and freedom of religion is there for a reason as well. It was to respect the right of a person to practice their religion freely, amongst like-minded people, and for the state and individuals to respect that right and inherent privacy.

Something that is private should not be nationalised.

And is it me or do we have National Days for just about everything now?

diggronpaul
05-08-2009, 02:23 PM
Why such hatred of all things Christian????

Obama was quite open about having the first ever Passover Seder in the White House, so why all the fuss about praying with a bunch of Christians???
Now that's interesting. Are they attempting to create division between Jews and non-jews as one line of demarcation?

It's aways about inserting wedges into society so that we fight against ourselves. Seems they're pitting believers versus non-believers, denomination against denomination, and jew versus non-jew?

Am I seeing this right?

Ozwest
05-08-2009, 02:25 PM
If you guys insist on praying.

Bad news. You are too late.

silverhawks
05-08-2009, 02:25 PM
Now that's interesting. Are they attempting to create division between Jews and non-jews as one line of demarcation?

It's aways about inserting wedges into society so that we fight against ourselves. Seems they're pitting believers versus non-believers, denomination against denomination, and jew versus non-jew?

Am I seeing this right?

No, I see that all the time. That's the public face of the "culture war".

Ozwest
05-08-2009, 02:31 PM
It must be worrying for America, being the world's guiding light.

I especially enjoy be reminded, as often as possible.

Danke
05-08-2009, 02:47 PM
Looks like this is something recently created by the last Bush as a White House event. So Obama isn't partaking in what the last president initiated, BFD.




The National Day of Prayer Task Force, which is run out of the conservative Christian group Focus on the Family in Colorado Springs, Colo., has been eagerly awaiting word from the White House about plans for next Thursday's National Day of Prayer. Specifically, the group wants to know if President Obama will issue a proclamation observing the National Day of Prayer next Thursday and whether he'll host a formal White House event to mark the day—the latter being the practice of the Bush White House.

The White House tells me that there will be a proclamation but no White House event—which is how administrations prior to George Bush's marked the event. Bush had been in the habit of inviting National Day of Prayer Task Force Chairman Shirley Dobson and her husband, James—founder of Focus on the Family—to the East Room at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue for the event.

"President Obama is a committed Christian and believes that we should be engaging Americans of faith in efforts to renew our country," said a White official of White House plans. "He is following the tradition of Presidents Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and others by signing a proclamation honoring the National Day of Prayer, while continuing to work with communities of faith to improve our country."

BlackTerrel
05-08-2009, 02:55 PM
Why such hatred of all things Christian????

Obama was quite open about having the first ever Passover Seder in the White House, so why all the fuss about praying with a bunch of Christians???

Hmmm...let's have a closer look at Obama's kosher handlers

Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel (his dad was an Israeli terrorist)
Chief Adviser David Axelrod
Budget Director Peter Orzag
Treasury Secretary Tim Geitner
Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke
Economic adviser Larry Summers
Economic adviser Robert Rubin
Economic adviser Robert Reich
Economic adviser Paul Volcker
Fed adviser Alan Greenspan
House banking Chairman Barney Frank.
Obama money man George Soros

oy vey!

Oh no. Obama allows Jews in government!!! We really should ban those people you know :rolleyes:

The reality is that very few in the administration are Jews. Yet you compiled them all into a neat little list. How nice of you :D

Ozwest
05-08-2009, 02:58 PM
This so-called religious attack, is like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Why don't you guys give it a rest?

What a waste of time and energy.

Ozwest
05-08-2009, 03:34 PM
Can't help it, I refuse to kneel down or prostrate myself before someone whose existence never can be proved.

I prefer self-reliance.

Athan
05-08-2009, 04:10 PM
I'm closely watching as this agenda develops and plays-out. I'm not going to comment right now cause I can't yet figure out what is going on, but there is most definitely an agenda rolling out in front of our eyes. Here's the latest video, this one is from Rhodes scholar Rachel Maddow....

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&brand=msnbc&vid=cacdc479-1f40-4cbc-8fe6-bc18169a829a

Gotta keep ‘em separated
May 7: President Obama proclaimed for Americans to pray today, since it’s the National Day of Prayer. The religious right is criticizing the proclamation because he didn’t do it like President Bush. Whatever happened to the separation of church and state? Rachel Maddow is joined by Interfaith Alliance President Rev. C Welton Gaddy.

This current issue is clearly meant to divide Americans. To ease our focus of their little fucking money games. To divert our growing success against the Fed. To find a way to get the Ron Paul Revolution to divide itself.

I call bullshit.

Ozwest
05-08-2009, 04:19 PM
This current issue is clearly meant to divide Americans. To ease our focus of their little fucking money games. To divert our growing success against the Fed. To find a way to get the Ron Paul Revolution to divide itself.

I call bullshit.

I agree, people get side-tracked.

Other than Dr. Pauls attempt to audit the Fed, I'd say the U.S. citizen is already 9 trillion down.

Game up.

revolutionman
05-08-2009, 04:49 PM
some Christians believe that it is the duty to constantly run their mouths about their beliefs, and some nonchristian people perceive that very act as hostile and offensive, no matter what tone its packaged in.

Christians have a right to say what they want, and people have a right to be pissed. If you are a christian and you don't want people looking down their noses at your religion, then stop trying to convert people. If your not willing to make that concession, then you have no grounds on which to play the victim when the people you insult, offend or otherwise alienate, lash out at you.

The Christian "duty" to spread the word, is tantamount to a spiritual form of imperialism, understandably upsetting to people of nonchristian faiths, and the faithless.

Dieseler
05-08-2009, 05:13 PM
He said "Be not afraid".
I ain't skeered of nothin.

Objectivist
05-08-2009, 05:14 PM
From Liberal Fascism, remove religion from public policy. Hitler did!

Ozwest
05-08-2009, 05:23 PM
It isn't a problem being a Libertarian and an Atheist.

It's the near- to- heart Republicans I cannot get my head around.

Too much Religion. Better to keep Religion and Politics separate.

GunnyFreedom
05-08-2009, 05:28 PM
Most Christians are statists. There are good Christians and there are good non-Christians.

Most [squeaky-wheel] Christians are statists. There are good Christians and there are good non-Christians.

Most squeaky-wheel Christians are statists. There are good Christians and there are good non-Christians.

There. fixed it for you. ;)

BlackTerrel
05-08-2009, 05:58 PM
The Christian "duty" to spread the word, is tantamount to a spiritual form of imperialism, understandably upsetting to people of nonchristian faiths, and the faithless.

Kind of like Ron Paul people right? How many RP evangelists do we have on this board?

Nothing wrong with Christians sharing their beliefs, as long as they're not overly pushy about it (which admittedly some are).

PaulaGem
05-08-2009, 06:13 PM
between sharing the Light and telling someone in earthly terms what their Spirit should conform to. Words, even the words written in a "holy book" are of this world.

I think the best example is the conversation that Yeshua (Jesus was a Greek name) had with the Samaritan woman. He shared with her, never told her her religious beliefs were wrong and told her that it was high time that men started to realize that where you worship wasn't as important as worshipping in "Spriit and in Truth".

If you believe that you as a Christian have Light that no non-Christian can share and you are evangelizing to win a religious argument, realize that religion is irrelevant.

Religion is of this world and that's why you'll find that Yeshua celebrated his Jewish heritage, but never made an issue about the fact that someone belonged to a different religion.

I actually went out "evangelizing" in support of the Audit the Fed legislation yesterday. I collected one signature. But my goal was to pass out the sheets with the website with the petitions and find some enlightened folk who already understood the dangers of the Fed. I knew I couldn't convert anyone with my "evangelizing" but I "share the light" with others and hoped to get more signatures on petitions I would never see in that way. I passed out a handful of website sheets and had some very nice conversations. All were in favor of the legislation but none of them knew about it.

GunnyFreedom
05-08-2009, 06:15 PM
Kind of like Ron Paul people right? How many RP evangelists do we have on this board?

Nothing wrong with Christians sharing their beliefs, as long as they're not overly pushy about it (which admittedly some are).

and a lot, also are misled; believing that if you outlaw the sins of the flesh that this will somehow prevent the spirit from descending into hell. Problem is, the heart will go where it will, despite the law, and by outlawing whatever we consider 'immoral,' we are in fact erecting barriers to their reconciliation and to their restoration in righteousness.

The majority of Christians stay out of politics, because political Christians are disgusting. Governor Mike Huckabee, please stand up for the assembly as Exhibit A. Thank you sir. :D

They are all too willing to use the power of the State to enforce Church doctrines; but they do not understand the consequences of the doors they are opening for the State. Those of us who believe in what is written of in the Bible know that a time is coming when there will be a marriage of Church and State to cover the whole world, and that this will be the wicked system of the Antichrist.

Awake Christians can sense that using the State to enforce Church doctrine creates the circumstances, from which such a nightmare can arise.

DamianTV
05-08-2009, 06:27 PM
Evangelizing is a duty of all Christians. You are supposed to show people the light of the Lord when you get the opportunity to do so.

Hence christianity is nothing more than a fucking ponzi scheme, sold by threatening a persons supposedly existent soul.

GunnyFreedom
05-08-2009, 06:35 PM
Hence christianity is nothing more than a fucking ponzi scheme, sold by threatening a persons supposedly existent soul.

LOL ok, well if you don't have one, then you have nothing to lose by ignoring it, no? :)

idiom
05-08-2009, 06:51 PM
I'm closely watching as this agenda develops and plays-out. I'm not going to comment right now cause I can't yet figure out what is going on, but there is most definitely an agenda rolling out in front of our eyes. Here's the latest video, this one is from Rhodes scholar Rachel Maddow....

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&brand=msnbc&vid=cacdc479-1f40-4cbc-8fe6-bc18169a829a

Gotta keep ‘em separated
May 7: President Obama proclaimed for Americans to pray today, since it’s the National Day of Prayer. The religious right is criticizing the proclamation because he didn’t do it like President Bush. Whatever happened to the separation of church and state? Rachel Maddow is joined by Interfaith Alliance President Rev. C Welton Gaddy.

You are not actually concerned for people with genuine personal faith and conviction, because no amount of propaganda will sway them.

What you are concerned about is the herd part of the populace that doesn't really think to hard about God but has been socially engineered into calling themselves Christian.

You are worried that those who have been brainwashed onto your side, are now being brainwashed onto another side.

The beauty of persecution is that it pretty quickly sorts out those who really do bbelieve in God from those who believe whatever gets them away from the angry man with the stick.

Are you really worried that a bunch of tv shows are going to over-ride the impact of a personal revelation of the awesomeness of God? Seriously?

Obama asked everybody, even the atheists to pray to God. Yeah thats a pretty serious attack on Christianity that is.

DamianTV
05-08-2009, 06:59 PM
LOL ok, well if you don't have one, then you have nothing to lose by ignoring it, no? :)

Just my temper when I have some asshole standing at my door telling me Im gonna burn in hell because I dont believe in their god. That to me is a threat, and I dont take kindly to threats. Im also not real fond of Ponzi schemes, which is what the religion itself has evolved itself into. So threaten me (not you personally) with burning in hell, and I do have something to lose. My temper. WHen that happens, you probably want to be as far away from me as possible.

I also dont take kindly to the really fucking stupid religious types again threatening me with hell because of the name my parents gave me. Now also, when I say "really fucking stupid religious types", thats not trying to lump up everyone that is religious into the same group, there are some smart religious people out there and those with common sense, the ones Im talking about are the ones that honestly believe that just because my name is Damian that somehow I am actually associated with being the Son of Satan, and they actually believe that. Those are the fucking idiots Im talking about, and you probably wouldnt even believe how many of those types I meet.

Dieseler
05-08-2009, 07:50 PM
This song frikkin rocks.
Way better than a religious/non religious debate.
YouTube - Hey Man, Nice Shot //. Filter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODmQaQd03Ig)

Dieseler
05-08-2009, 07:50 PM
Be not afraid.

GunnyFreedom
05-08-2009, 09:11 PM
Just my temper when I have some asshole standing at my door telling me Im gonna burn in hell because I dont believe in their god. That to me is a threat, and I dont take kindly to threats. Im also not real fond of Ponzi schemes, which is what the religion itself has evolved itself into. So threaten me (not you personally) with burning in hell, and I do have something to lose. My temper. WHen that happens, you probably want to be as far away from me as possible.

It's more of a conviction than a threat. They firmly believe that unless you can be made to see the light, that you will spend an eternity in fiery torment. They genuinely don't want to see you spending an eternity in fiery torment, and therefore they are willing to go to extraordinary measures to reveal salvation.

The reality is that God calls whom He will, some respond and some do not. Some who never hear it for 80 years suddenly have their eyes and their hart thrown open wide. But it's God that does it. Not some guy knocking on your door to wake you out of bed after a long 3rd shift...

Religion has been wrongly conflated with spiritual philosophy (theology) and spiritual reality. The Bible says that true and just 'religion' is simply feeding orphans and taking care of widows. Full stop. It also warns that if anyone should consider themselves 'religious' then they are probably quite in the dark.


I also dont take kindly to the really fucking stupid religious types again threatening me with hell because of the name my parents gave me.

That's probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard; and it reminds me of all the "hollyweird christians" that we have suffered with for the last 2000 years.

For instance, the pervasive belief in a hell of fire torture and brimstone, with 70 demons to poke your every wound: a fabrication of Dante, writer of fiction. The common understanding that "Lucifer" was some special angel who fell and became "Satan" was crafted by Milton (Paradise Lost) another author of fiction.

I guess in this modern era of hollyweird Cristiandom, having conquered most of the church with the concept of hell; they are going after horror movies and modern fiction to create the lexicon.

They are ignorant. If they have to model their faith around horror movie claptrap, they would do well to stick with Stephen King; who does an amazing job of portraying Christian principle with every book he writes...

(oops, did i say that out loud?)


Now also, when I say "really fucking stupid religious types", thats not trying to lump up everyone that is religious into the same group, there are some smart religious people out there and those with common sense, the ones Im talking about are the ones that honestly believe that just because my name is Damian that somehow I am actually associated with being the Son of Satan, and they actually believe that. Those are the fucking idiots Im talking about, and you probably wouldnt even believe how many of those types I meet.

Well, people with hearts like that, quite regardless of what comes out of their mouths, are further from the Way than you are, by a longshot. Best thing you can do is chuckle at the irony of how 'that sort' of Christian is closer to hell than most atheists.