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View Full Version : Obama demonstrates once again that he is an idiot




tangent4ronpaul
05-07-2009, 10:08 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/08/us/politics/08budget.html?hp

Dog and Pony Show budget cuts:

"Mr. Obama listed some of them: a long-range radio navigation system that costs $35 million but has been rendered obsolete by global positioning systems"

http://www.nautilus.org/~rmit/forum-reports/0714s-ball/

The systems most vulnerable to RF weapons are UHF communications satellites (in geostationary orbits), used by the US Navy and Allied navies, and GPS navigation and positioning satellites (which orbit at 19,300 km). Iraq purchased at least six high-powered GPS jammers from a Russian company; they were all quickly destroyed by US forces through the first two nights of Operation Iraqi Freedom in March 2003. [4]

"The PRC has a broad ASAT research and development program, investigating a variety of ASAT techniques. These include the development of radio frequency (RF) weapons for jamming satellite signals,..."

"In its annual reports to Congress in 2003 and 2004, the Pentagon asserted that China has 'developed and tested an ASAT system described [in a Hong Kong newspaper article in January 2001] as a parasitic micro-satellite', i.e., a small satellite that attaches itself to a target satellite to disrupt or destroy that satellite on command. However, strong doubts have been cast on the credibility of this claim. [7]"

"The Soviet Union developed a wide range of ASAT capabilities, including direct-ascent launchers armed with both nuclear and conventional warheads, co-orbital anti-satellite systems, and laser and RF systems. The current status of these systems is uncertain. Many of them involved facilities in the Central Asian States (especially Kazakhstan and Tajikistan). Some of them have definitely not been properly maintained for many years.

The crudest system involved the long-range Galosh anti-missile missile, first deployed around Moscow in the late 1960s and up-graded through the 1970s and 1980s as the exo-atmospheric intercept component of the anti-ballistic missile (ABM) system built to protect the national command authority. It carried a 3.5 megaton nuclear warhead, which would have indiscriminately destroyed all LEO satellites passing over the Moscow region."

"In 1976, a new KH-11 imaging satellite was 'painted' and 'permanently damaged' by a Soviet laser. [13] The Sary Shagan facility illuminated the Challenger Shuttle on 10 October 1984, causing malfunction of on-board equipment and discomfort and temporary blindness of the crew. [14] Two high-power lasers systems (using a ruby laser and a pulsed carbon-dioxide laser) were operational at Sary Shagan in 1987. By the time the Soviet Union collapsed, eight laser facilities had been constructed or were under construction for ASAT purposes, including a free-electron laser (FEL) prototype ASAT facility at Storozhevaya in the North Caucasus and the Sary Shagan complex. Three of them were situated in Tajikistan - at Nurek, Dushanbe and an unidentified site between these two places. [15]"

"China's ASAT test has been widely viewed as a direct challenge to US space superiority. The US maintains by far the largest fleet of military and intelligence satellite systems in the world, and the mission of the US Space Command is to maintain control of space. The transformation of the US military for Network-centric Warfare and Information Operations is increasing its reliance on space-based assets. American satellites are lucrative targets in the Chinese strategy of asymmetric warfare. As one Chinese defence analyst has noted: 'For countries that can never win a war with the United States by using the method of tanks and planes, attacking the US space system may be an irresistible and most tempting choice'. [24] Even a limited ASAT capability would be extremely useful to the PLA in contingencies involving the Taiwan Strait. China's test will strengthen the arguments in the US for an enlivened ASAT program, as well as prompt the further development of counter-measures."

"Israel has also raised concerns about transfers of ASAT technology from China to countries in the Middle East, and especially Iran."

[4] Frank Vizard, 'Attempts to Jam U.S. GPS-based Weapons and Navigation Systems in Iraq', Scientific American.com, 14 April 2003.

There are other papers out there, just Google ASAT

I cut out a lot, but you should have gotten the point.

The more of this stuff the guy does, the more I think he's an enemy agent trying to cripple the country.

-t

tangent4ronpaul
05-08-2009, 01:42 PM
blimp

silverhawks
05-08-2009, 01:55 PM
When I read stuff like this...


China's ASAT test has been widely viewed as a direct challenge to US space superiority. The US maintains by far the largest fleet of military and intelligence satellite systems in the world, and the mission of the US Space Command is to maintain control of space.

...I actually wonder exactly what kind of nation we live in.

Original_Intent
05-08-2009, 02:03 PM
Hey we were there first (besides the Russians) so Space is Ours. All of it.

torchbearer
05-08-2009, 02:10 PM
Hey we were there first (besides the Russians) so Space is Ours. All of it.

We own space-time. You want to step off this planet, you better get ready for an anal search by homeland security.
And don't think about traveling in OUR space without paying your carbon taxes per mile.

Kraig
05-08-2009, 02:17 PM
I don't think Obama is an idiot though, he knows exactly what he's doing.

Danke
05-08-2009, 02:35 PM
"Mr. Obama listed some of them: a long-range radio navigation system that costs $35 million but has been rendered obsolete by global positioning systems"


The systems most vulnerable to RF weapons are UHF communications satellites (in geostationary orbits), used by the US Navy and Allied navies, and GPS navigation and positioning satellites (which orbit at 19,300 km). Iraq purchased at least six high-powered GPS jammers from a Russian company; they were all quickly destroyed by US forces through the first two nights of Operation Iraqi Freedom in March 2003. [4]




I didn't even know we still had LORAN. Does the military even use it? We didn't when I was in.

So what are the reasons LORAN is worth keeping? How accurate is LORAN? Why is it any less susceptible to jamming. And from the article you quote, sounds like we immediately took out the Iraq's Russian GPS jammers. I used to fly as a Wild Weasel, Hunter/Killer.

I think any internal navigation system (like ring laser gyros with updating) is just as (or more) accurate as LORAN, but I have never used LORAN, honestly, I thought it was long ago obsolete.

tangent4ronpaul
05-08-2009, 06:16 PM
I didn't even know we still had LORAN. Does the military even use it? We didn't when I was in.

So what are the reasons LORAN is worth keeping? How accurate is LORAN? Why is it any less susceptible to jamming. And from the article you quote, sounds like we immediately took out the Iraq's Russian GPS jammers. I used to fly as a Wild Weasel, Hunter/Killer.

I think any internal navigation system (like ring laser gyros with updating) is just as (or more) accurate as LORAN, but I have never used LORAN, honestly, I thought it was long ago obsolete.

It's simply a backup. Removing backup systems isn't good. As to gyro's - if you are talking long distances, like across oceans they loose accuracy between GPS updates. Enough that a cruise / guided missile could land as much 100 miles off. Ring laser gyro's are more accurate than the old kind, though. Current ICBM's are equipped with celestial navigation systems as are SOME military aircraft. Not so, commercial aircraft. Even though there is greater reliance on GPS in all military systems, they still teach grunts to use a map and compass for a reason!

I would expect LORAN could be jammed, with difficulty and then only locally. Spread spectrum communications is effective at countering jamming. It could also be spoofed, but challenge/response would get around that. btw: I'm assuming it's LORAN, it could be something else. He didn't say, but that makes sense.

I mean wouldn't it kinda suck to bomb the wrong country or have to make an emergency landing and end up in North Korea rather than South?

Wild Weasel, hu? - rather dangerous occupation! :eek:

I'm reminded of one night when I was living in the mountains and the fog came in. Fog so thick that when I extended my arm in front of me, I couldn't see my hand. anyway, I knew where I was and what direction my shelter was, so I set out to dead-recon my way to home when my land mate's dog came out and started barking and running around me in circles. Idiot that I was, I started paying attention to the dog instead of my direction of travel. Anyway, the landmate came out of his tipi and called Izzy in, and I was able to re-orient due to his voice and landed just a few feet off from the door of my shelter.

Got navigation?

-t

Objectivist
05-08-2009, 06:21 PM
I don't think Obama is an idiot though, he knows exactly what he's doing.

You mean what he wants to do, as the outcome of his positions and actions are known to intelligent people around the world, they've been tried and failed numerous times. That makes Obama an IDIOT.

Danke
05-08-2009, 06:27 PM
It's simply a backup. Removing backup systems isn't good. As to gyro's - if you are talking long distances, like across oceans they loose accuracy between GPS updates. Enough that a cruise / guided missile could land as much 100 miles off. Ring laser gyro's are more accurate than the old kind, though. Current ICBM's are equipped with celestial navigation systems as are SOME military aircraft. Not so, commercial aircraft. Even though there is greater reliance on GPS in all military systems, they still teach grunts to use a map and compass for a reason!

I would expect LORAN could be jammed, with difficulty and then only locally. Spread spectrum communications is effective at countering jamming. It could also be spoofed, but challenge/response would get around that. btw: I'm assuming it's LORAN, it could be something else. He didn't say, but that makes sense.

I mean wouldn't it kinda suck to bomb the wrong country or have to make an emergency landing and end up in North Korea rather than South?

Wild Weasel, hu? - rather dangerous occupation! :eek:

I'm reminded of one night when I was living in the mountains and the fog came in. Fog so thick that when I extended my arm in front of me, I couldn't see my hand. anyway, I knew where I was and what direction my shelter was, so I set out to dead-recon my way to home when my land mate's dog came out and started barking and running around me in circles. Idiot that I was, I started paying attention to the dog instead of my direction of travel. Anyway, the landmate came out of his tipi and called Izzy in, and I was able to re-orient due to his voice and landed just a few feet off from the door of my shelter.

Got navigation?

-t

Well doesn't really answer my question. Are we using LORAN? Which, if any, military equipment is fitted for it?

They obviously can't jam over a very long distance for any length of time. So any updating capability is good enough. Heck, even before GPS updating, I still had to slew my targeting box off the target to see what I was bombing with ring laser gyros.

And as soon as they turn on their jammers, they die. That is a fact.

tangent4ronpaul
05-08-2009, 08:54 PM
Well doesn't really answer my question. Are we using LORAN? Which, if any, military equipment is fitted for it?

They obviously can't jam over a very long distance for any length of time. So any updating capability is good enough. Heck, even before GPS updating, I still had to slew my targeting box off the target to see what I was bombing with ring laser gyros.

And as soon as they turn on their jammers, they die. That is a fact.

It's unknown - he didn't say. Still, the frequencies are known and even if not currently used, if it's out there, updating ppl on it wouldn't take long.

What did you used to fly?

-t

tangent4ronpaul
05-08-2009, 08:56 PM
It's looking like he did cancel LORAN:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN

-t

Objectivist
05-09-2009, 03:14 AM
http://gps31.spawar.navy.mil/

Submarines use a backup SINS Gyro, unless they've stopped with the Virginia Class Boats which I doubt as it is a reliable system.

FindLiberty
05-09-2009, 04:47 AM
The technology is amazing, but imagine what our world would be like today without fiat money funding waring governments...

Albert Einstein, “I don’t know what World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.”

It's possible that only government cockroaches and rats will survive deep underground, hidden in some hardened mountain bunker.

They are all dangerous idiots.

URL to 5 minute video clip from Buckaroo Banzai presented here:
similar to Obama's military contractors working on the latest technology...Lord Whorfin's "...Laugh While You Can Monkey Boy..." line is at 4:55
YouTube - Buckaroo Banzai - Lord Whorfin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d682xV0n1YY)

tangent4ronpaul
05-10-2009, 06:45 AM
blimp2!

coastie
05-10-2009, 07:27 AM
Well doesn't really answer my question. Are we using LORAN? Which, if any, military equipment is fitted for it?

They obviously can't jam over a very long distance for any length of time. So any updating capability is good enough. Heck, even before GPS updating, I still had to slew my targeting box off the target to see what I was bombing with ring laser gyros.

And as soon as they turn on their jammers, they die. That is a fact.


"We" still use it-for now. I say "we" as in some of the old timer fisherman still use it, and all nautical charts have it overlayed onto them. "We" (coast guard), still maintain LORAN stations, usually VERY isolated. LORAN station Attu, AK is an example. They're so isolated that a tour there is only for a year.

But, users of this system are becoming more and more extinct, but i dont think we should just cancel it outright, never hurts to have a proven, reliable back up in case satellites start falling from the sky....

literatim
05-10-2009, 07:31 AM
It is just stupid to cancel LORAN. We are becoming too dependent on satellites which can be taken out of commission.

tonesforjonesbones
05-10-2009, 08:17 AM
I saw this in the paper today..when Obama went to the G20 summit he took:

a staff of 500, including a chef, kitchen staff and six doctors, personal supply of food/ water
12 teleprompters, 4 speechwriters
Air Force One
Marine One which brought several limos and 35 cars.

Tones