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A. Havnes
05-07-2009, 04:15 PM
I was just in the cities for an emergency (I'll talk about that in a later post), and I looked through "Minnesota Daily" while I was there, and came across a certain article of interest (http://www.mndaily.com/2009/05/05/rand%E2%80%99s-atlas-myth-america). I took the newspaper with me in case I would have to transcribe it on these forums, but I found a link. Minnesota Daily is comprised of University of Minnesota students, who are probably indoctrinated into socialism.

You know what to do!


Rand’s Atlas: a myth for America

Subhead: Many are returning to Ayn Rand’s seminal fiction novel amid recession. But they should not forget the lessons reality teaches.

BY Christopher Benson
PUBLISHED: 05/05/2009

When the tumult of day-to-day existence throws reality into disarray, people tend to go back to basics, asking questions like, “Who am I?” and “Where am I going?” With political and social movements, this generally translates to a little bit of electoral soul-searching and revisiting the philosophical foundation of your ideology. Considering the recent collapse of public confidence in conservative politicians and multibillionaire CEOs, laissez-faire economics is being revisited to bolster the confidence of the business class, and nowhere is this more clearly demonstrated than the resurgent popularity of Ayn Rand’s capitalist encyclical, “Atlas Shrugged.” Since President Barack Obama’s inauguration, sales of the book have been “going through the roof” according to Yaron Brook, the president of the Ayn Rand Institute. Brook claims that the book has sold more copies in the first four months of 2009 than it did all last year.

And why not? The book is an unrepentant defense of the capitalist, a defiant call that selfishness and profiteering are to be emulated, not scorned. Considering the impression much of conservative America has of Obama and a popular sentiment that regards Wall Street businessmen as slightly more palatable than Osama bin Laden, a book that offers a laudatory pat on the back while condemning “socialism” is a welcome change of pace.

Although currently en vogue, “Atlas” has been an ideological refuge for quite some time. A 1991 survey conducted by the Library of Congress and the Book of the Month Club noted that it was the second most influential book in America, behind the Bible.

But there’s a problem. Rand's vision of businessmen in “Atlas” was like Walt Disney's version of the animal kingdom in “Bambi”: the dirty and impolite aspects that actually animate their lives were handily ignored. Unlike Disney, Rand’s choice to exclude reality was not done to enable the narrative, but to make it possible to drive home a philosophical point.

Like Plato’s “Philosopher-King” (or its 18th century variant, the “Enlightened Despot”), Rand used her narrative to create a philosophical ideal in the form of the businessman. This ideal, like all ideals, embodied all “good” things, and no “bad.” Due to the pervasive effect of Rand’s book on American culture, it’s also been important in shaping a cultural perspective on businessmen as an exponent of American prosperity and a conceptual justification for complete, unbridled economic liberty, or in Rand’s words, “the separation of State and Economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of Church and State.”

However, the benefits of this ideal have been dubious because the deified philosophical ideal is fictional and the product of wholly wishful thinking. It is the result of a thought experiment that characterizes efforts to regulate business as “punishment” and manufactures a conflict that compels the public to see business as an eternal adversary.

As such, Rand’s is a conceit that we ought to banish, not because, as socialists believe, businessmen are inherently evil, but because they are not, as she believes, inherently good.

Capitalism, like any economic system, is merely a tool, and the use of that tool determines whether it is a “good” or “bad” thing. This makes it a results-oriented arrangement whose sole motivation is profit. Enamored of the notion that selfishness is the highest ideal, Rand and her ilk are unwilling to see the occasionally pathological consequences of the profit motive. Instead, they set their sights on removing any impediment to any profit. In a piece from the Ayn Rand Institute titled “Stop Blaming Capitalism for Government Failures” the aforementioned Yaron Brook emphasizes that the goal should be “no regulatory bullying, no controls, no government interference in the economy.” The government’s only job is “to protect individual rights from violation by force or fraud.”

One of the consequences of leaving business to itself is that the demand for a product and its subsequent profitability are the only important aspects worth consideration, but this kind of change would produce undesirable businesses.

For instance, in Thailand, sex tourism capital of the world, there exists a market for child prostitutes. The principal thing that keeps it from being legal is a government stipulation that all sex workers are older than 18, but in a system without laws governing business — the so-called “regulatory bullying” and “government interference” — the individual pimping a consenting 10-year-old is as legitimately a businessman as the local manufacturer of antibiotics and pediatric vaccines. The same holds true for other forms of child labor; if children are ready to go work for their share of the family take and a business were prepared to employ them, there would be nothing to stop a boom in bobbin-changing jobs.

Other businesses would spring up that are decidedly anti-growth; short sellers and “empty creditors” (lenders and creditors who make their profits by betting on business failures), bolstered by the leverage to sink as many companies as possible, would effectively become economic incinerators.

These kinds of entrepreneurs don’t come to the fore in “Atlas” because its ruins the dream; instead, the focus is on railroad executives, mining magnates and the boss of the steel foundry. Nevertheless, they would arise in a system where market-driven demand determines a business’ merit. Philosophically, the Rand set believes that government needs to practice a “hands-off” approach, but this is a solution that is no better than over-regulation and equally catastrophic. In reality, we need a light governmental touch to steer the motor of industry. To believe otherwise is fiction.

Chris Benson is the senior editorial board member. Please send comments to letters@mndaily.com.


Have fun educating this guy!

dannno
05-07-2009, 04:29 PM
Lol, I thought he didn't like Rand Paul's book.. I was like.. "Rand Paul has a book??"

Imperial
05-07-2009, 05:37 PM
Tell them they are ignorant because they never read The Fountainhead. That book shows the corruption of big business through Gail Wynand, or numerable other figures. Its story isn't too big in scope or too proselytizing until the end, and doesn't have AS MANY "extraordinary circumstances" as Atlas Shrugged.

Plus, Rand's work is a work of fiction. She is trying to make a conception of free enterprise rather than every detail. The fact that objectivism accepts government and certain functions it embraces there will be some overlap like in child protection laws.

jclay2
05-07-2009, 05:48 PM
According to this bozo, short sellers are business killers? I like how the only piece of evidence that was used to prove that regulation was needed was child prostitution in Thailand. Are you freaking kidding me? If that is all they got, then I am just going to have to say EPIC FAIL.

A. Havnes
05-07-2009, 07:31 PM
Lol, I thought he didn't like Rand Paul's book.. I was like.. "Rand Paul has a book??"

I forgot that they both share 'Rand' in their names!

*smacks self*

BeFranklin
05-07-2009, 09:10 PM
The concept of free markets and sound money existed long before Ayn Rand.

While a person should be left alone to business, private charity also should exist in the minds of most traditional Americans.

Ayn Rand was against private "altruism", Giving to people is of the devil, she opinioned. This is the flaw of the Ayn Rand. She has little logical justifacation for it.

Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.
Deut. 26:12. When you have finished paying the complete tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and the widow, that they may eat in your towns, and be satisfied.

Lev. 19:19. Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, neither shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God.

Prov. 31:8. Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.

Is. 58:66. Is this not the fast which I choose, to loosen the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and break every yoke? Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into the house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

Jer. 22:3. Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor. Also do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan, or the widow; and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

Luke 12:33. "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys."

Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would answer and say to them, "Let the man with two tunics share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise."

Mt. 5:42. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

Carole
05-07-2009, 09:33 PM
Let's offer the writer of the article a reading list.

First, maybe some Mises stuff. Then the Constitution and Declaration of Independence.

If that writer wants reality then maybe he should read "1984" and "Plato's Republic" for a dose of reality. Perhaps he should also re-read his history of Greece and how a "democracy" form of government descends into totalitarianism, then fails.

Maybe "How You Can Find Happiness During the Collapse of Western Civilization" by Ringer
The Red Web by Coan

You guys add some more books. :D

NYgs23
05-07-2009, 09:42 PM
Ayn Rand was against private "altruism", Giving to people is of the devil, she opinioned. This is the flaw of the Ayn Rand. She has little logical justifacation for it.

If I recall correctly, she accepted acts of "benevolence," motivated, as she thought, by the ultimately self-interested desire to live in a civilized society. No one wants to step across starving people in the street, after all. But she did oppose "altruism," defined as helping in others in such a way that it hurt oneself as being anti-self and therefore anti-reason.

BeFranklin
05-07-2009, 09:45 PM
Let's offer the writer of the article a reading list.

First, maybe some Mises stuff. Then the Constitution and Declaration of Independence.

If that writer wants reality then maybe he should read "1984" and "Plato's Republic" for a dose of reality. Perhaps he should also re-read his history of Greece and how a "democracy" form of government descends into totalitarianism, then fails.

Maybe "How You Can Find Happiness During the Collapse of Western Civilization" by Ringer
The Red Web by Coan

You guys add some more books. :D

Useless. To do so would be altruistic.

In fact, most donations of time in defense of others is altrusitic. Minarchy, something Ayn Rand was for, flies in the face of the rest of her logic. One reason anarchist capitalists are more logical, if as equally ill conceived.

At least the founders were consistent in their beliefs.

idiom
05-07-2009, 09:51 PM
The concept of free markets and sound money existed long before Ayn Rand.

While a person should be left alone to business, private charity also should exist in the minds of most traditional Americans.

Ayn Rand was against private "altruism", Giving to people is of the devil, she opinioned. This is the flaw of the Ayn Rand. She has little logical justifacation for it.

Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.
Deut. 26:12. When you have finished paying the complete tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and the widow, that they may eat in your towns, and be satisfied.

Lev. 19:19. Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, neither shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God.

Prov. 31:8. Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.

Is. 58:66. Is this not the fast which I choose, to loosen the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and break every yoke? Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into the house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

Jer. 22:3. Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor. Also do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan, or the widow; and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

Luke 12:33. "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys."

Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would answer and say to them, "Let the man with two tunics share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise."

Mt. 5:42. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

Giving to people out of a sense of duty or altruism is evil. The Bible does not say to give out of altruism or to fulfil a directive, but to give out of and only because of love.

Likewise Ayn Rand denounces the pursuit of money or power.

Where the Bible says you can either serve God or money, Rand says you can either serve yourself or money.

Giving when you don't want to, or because you 'have to' or 'should' is the root of socialism.

If you have altruism but not love you are like a clanging gong.

BeFranklin
05-07-2009, 10:02 PM
Giving to people out of a sense of duty or altruism is evil. The Bible does not say to give out of altruism or to fulfil a directive, but to give out of and only because of love.


There is nothing wrong with a sense of duty :rolleyes:

Ayn Rand is infamous for false dictonomies. Its the hallmark of a sophist. Likewise, there is no rationality to say that sense of duty conflicts with love. A real sense of duty is fully compatible with love.



Likewise Ayn Rand denounces the pursuit of money or power.


Get real. Ayn Rand was a well known hater of Christianity, and if you want, I'll buy back copies of The Virtue of Selfishness and her objectivist newsletter, and quote you examples all summer. Attacking private charity was her way of attacking Christianity.

Private charity is ones own business. Rand was well known for being a non-freedom loving busy body. She even told people to get a divorce if one of the mates was religious :eek:

BeFranklin
05-07-2009, 10:06 PM
If I recall correctly, she accepted acts of "benevolence," motivated, as she thought, by the ultimately self-interested desire to live in a civilized society. No one wants to step across starving people in the street, after all. But she did oppose "altruism," defined as helping in others in such a way that it hurt oneself as being anti-self and therefore anti-reason.

Which is entirely meanigless and sophistic.

Everyone, including evil people, do things for selfish reasons. The world is awash in selfish people. There have been plenty of perfectly rational, highly intelligent, evil men. And their reasoning is a little better than Ayn Rands - if I make myself filthy rich, I can make my own society by buying it. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Her argument boils down to I say so.

Second, she is wrong about altruism. She redefines words at whim (another mark of a sophist) to make her points. The golden rule says love your neighbor as yourself. It does not say love your neighbor more than yourself. The mutal self interest and other interest is right there.

idiom
05-07-2009, 10:37 PM
Likewise, there is no rationality to say that sense of duty conflicts with love. A real sense of duty is fully compatible with love.

"3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

How would you answer Peters question?


Get real. Ayn Rand was a well known hater of Christianity, and if you want, I'll buy back copies of The Virtue of Selfishness and her objectivist newsletter, and quote you examples all summer.

Something you need to learn about philosophers, they very often fail to adhere to, or fully understand their own philosophy.


22When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

The idea of giving everything away for no reason whatsoever is clearly not Biblical and the defintion of Altruism. It is the core of socialism. It is your own sophistry to try and redefine altruism as looking after yourself.

al·tru·ism (āl'trōō-ĭz'əm)
n.
Unselfish concern for the welfare of others;

The Golden Rule does not say 'Be Altruisitic'.