What about this Mises quote?

[hugolp]

"(it) cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the stablishment of dictatorships ARE FULL OF THE BEST INTENTIONS AND THAT THEIR INTERVENTIONS HAS,FOR THE MOMENT,SAVED EUROPEAN CIVILISATION.THE MERIT THAT FASCISM HAS THEREBY WON FOR ITSELF WILL LIVE ETERNALLY IN HISTORY" ("Liberalism" by von Mises,pag.51).

I havent check if its real (it has been provided by someone in another forum) but I guess its real. Anyone can tell me what is it about? It sounds really bad.

[Objectivist]

"(it) cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the stablishment of dictatorships ARE FULL OF THE BEST INTENTIONS AND THAT THEIR INTERVENTIONS HAS,FOR THE MOMENT,SAVED EUROPEAN CIVILISATION.THE MERIT THAT FASCISM HAS THEREBY WON FOR ITSELF WILL LIVE ETERNALLY IN HISTORY" ("Liberalism" by von Mises,pag.51).

I havent check if its real (it has been provided by someone in another forum) but I guess its real. Anyone can tell me what is it about? It sounds really bad.

Didn't he add Planned Chaos as an addition to Liberalism? I have an original Planned Chaos and this sounds familiar to me. I'll go look now..... No , it was added to Socialism in 1951.

[Objectivist]

Got a link, you can look it up.
http://mises.org/etexts/mises/og.asp

[Objectivist]

Got a link, you can look it up.
http://mises.org/etexts/mises/og.asp
Sorry

http://mises.org/liberal.asp

[Objectivist]

I'm narrowing it down but forgot how your quote went..
http://mises.org/liberal/ch1sec10.asp

[Objectivist]

Here ya go!

"It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error."

Ludwig von Mises ,

[hugolp]

Here ya go!

"It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error."

Ludwig von Mises ,

Thanks a lot. It was a socialist anarchist that pulled this. Why are socialist from any kind such liers and manipulators? Its like a constant. When they start to loose debates they start saying half truths or blatantly lying. Sometimes it feels like loosing time just trying to refute the pile of lies the can create.

[Paulitician]

I definitely wouldn't agree with this statement:

"It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions"

But of course it can...


"and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization."

IDK, who knows if it wouldn't have been better without said intervention?


"The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history."

It'll live on eternally in history, that's for sure.


"But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success."

Ain't that the truth.


IDK, it's kind of a weird way to end a chapter, but Mises did make that chapter to refute fascism. Beside, Mises himself fled Europe because of fascism (I mentioned this in another thread just yesterday), so it's not like he's a raving right-wing fascist or something.

[Objectivist]

Thanks a lot. It was a socialist anarchist that pulled this. Why are socialist from any kind such liers and manipulators? Its like a constant. When they start to loose debates they start saying half truths or blatantly lying. Sometimes it feels like loosing time just trying to refute the pile of lies the can create.

It's interesting that the socialist clipped the first half and refrained from posting the quote in it's entirety. They lose. Much of what I see coming from the left leaves out important details instead of letting the chips fall where they may. Or they refuse to acknowledge ANY positives of the opposing position, even if you were feeding poor people they'd find a way to demonize you.

I've noticed that there are some here that have a case of idol worship and will condemn others for comments made early in their careers that they later changed positions on.

[krazy kaju]

The full quote is:

The victory of Fascism in a number of countries is only an episode in the
long series of struggles over the problem of property. The next episode will be the
victory of Communism. The ultimate outcome of the struggle, however, will not be
decided by arms, but by ideas. It is ideas that group men into fighting factions, that
press the weapons into their hands, and that determine against whom and for whom
the weapons shall be used. It is they alone, and not arms, that, in the last analysis,
turn the scales.
So much for the domestic policy of Fascism. That its foreign policy, based as it is
on the avowed principle of force in international relations, cannot fail to give rise to
an endless series of wars that must destroy all of modern civilization requires no
further discussion. To maintain and further raise our present level of economic
development, peace among nations must be assured. But they cannot live together
in peace if the basic tenet of the ideology by which they are governed is the belief
that one's own nation can secure its place in the community of nations by force
alone.
It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the
establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their
intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that
Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its
policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could
promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as
something more would be a fatal error.

1. He's saying that fascism saved Europe from it's worse cousin, socialism/communism.

2. He clearly says it is only an "emergency makeshift" and warns against viewing it as something more because that would be a "fatal error." Pretty clear, if you ask me.

BTW, Mises's discussion of this topic begins on page 47. You should read all of it to understand what he was saying here (http://mises.org/books/liberalism.pdf).

[Shaka]

He's saying that fascism saved Europe from it's worse cousin, socialism/communism.

Joseph Stalin starved 25 million Russian peasants to death. When Ukraine refused to submit to communism, he starved seven million people to death there in 1932-1933.

Germany in the 1920's came within a hair-breadth of being taken over by Russia. Killing six million Jews was a relatively small price to pay to avoid the fate that Ukraine would suffer. Of course, killing anybody is abhorent, but it was a fairly surgical cut, unlike Stalin's technique of mass starvation, which wipes out everybody.

The Great Famine in Ukraine (http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/mdzikovs/golod.html)

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt42/Grozny/muss_russland_hungern_15-1.jpg

"The corpses of the starving lie in the road-side, the passers-by no longer pay them attention." (http://www.garethjones.org/soviet_articles/thomas_walker/muss_russland_hungern.htm)

[Objectivist]

The full quote is:


1. He's saying that fascism saved Europe from it's worse cousin, socialism/communism.

2. He clearly says it is only an "emergency makeshift" and warns against viewing it as something more because that would be a "fatal error." Pretty clear, if you ask me.

BTW, Mises's discussion of this topic begins on page 47. You should read all of it to understand what he was saying here (http://mises.org/books/liberalism.pdf).

Good point the link has the Etext of his writings and it is well worth the time for people to read his work.