PDA

View Full Version : Fresh in from a meetup member on Obama's citizenship




acptulsa
05-01-2009, 11:11 AM
I can't help but fear this will do us more harm than good, given that Biden is no improvement and that this promises to be one hell of a distraction. But here it is nonetheless:


http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=123895;title= APFN


APFN
Obama - Smoking gun finally found?
Tue Apr 28, 2009 15:50

On Tue, 4/28/09, UCT wrote:

Interesting concept Obama opposes :: United States Justice Foundation ...
Subject: Smoking gun finally found?

April 1, 2009

AP- WASHINGTON D.C. - In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama’s qualifications for the presidency, the group “Americans for Freedom of Information” has released copies of President Obama’s college transcripts from Occidental College. Released today, the transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school. The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California. The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship. This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama’s detractors have been seeking.

The news has created a firestorm at the White House as the release casts increasing doubt about Obama’s legitimacy and qualification to serve as president. When reached for comment in London, where he has been in meetings with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Obama smiled but refused comment on the issue. Meanwhile, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs scoffed at the report stating that this was obviously another attempt by a right-wing conservative group to discredit the president and undermine the administration’ s efforts to move the country in a new direction.

Britain's Daily Mail has also carried the story in a front-page article titled, “Obama Eligibility Questioned”, leading some to speculate that the story may overshadow economic issues on Obama’s first official visit to the U.K.

In a related matter, under growing pressure from several groups, Justice Antonin Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agreed on Tuesday to hear arguments concerning Obama’s legal eligibility to serve as President in a case brought by Leo Donofrio of New Jersey. This lawsuit claims Obama's dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. Donofrio’s case is just one of 18 suits brought by citizens demanding proof of Obama’s citizenship or qualification to serve as president.

Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released the results of their investigation of Obama’s campaign spending. This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal records. Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still ongoing but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. attorney general, Eric Holder. Mr. Holder has refused to comment on the matter.


http://www.usjf.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=537

============ ========= ========= ======

BORN AGAIN AMERICAN....
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/

FLU OUTBREAK MAP:
http://outbreaks.globalincidentmap.com/home.php

AP Article says Obama released his Occidental College ...
Released today, the transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry ... students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. ...


Fulbright Association
1100 G Street, N.W.
Suite 525
Washington, D.C. 20005
Phone: (202) 347-5543
Fax: (202) 347-6540
http://www.fulbrightalumni.org/olc/pub/FBA/cpages/about_us/about_us.jsp

Originally Posted by Brianroy View Post
Why do We Need Real Documents

April 26th, 2009
Due to the fact that Obama arrogantly refuses to unseal his vital records and uses his attorney Robert Bauer as a tool to harass and initmidate law abiding citizens and attorneys; there are numerous rumors on the internet about those records.
Recently I received an e-mail, stating that Obama has received a Fullbright scholarship, while at Occidental. Fullbright is given to foreign students.

[ Expensive tuition Occidental prides itself in being a Fullbright Scholarship "producer", which means: an aggressive social action College enabling qualified "foreign" applicants to attend undergraduate studies there...producing the fees/costs to attend via financial aid loans, grants, scholarships. ..in order that the be able to school feed/sustain itself.
"(Occidental is one of the country’s top producers of student Fulbright Award winners)."
"...Roughly three quarters of students receive financial aid..."
http://www.stateuniversity.com/universities/CA/Occidental_College.html

When 73% of your students are on Financial Aid for what is now
$34,000 a year base tuition before expenses...compare Harvard
at about $2,000 less annual tuition, and its break down the comparable costs there at:
http://www.collegecrunch.org/school-profiles/harvard-university/


AND YET Obama is likely enabled to attend on perhaps a full scholarship because of his mother's associations with the FORD Foundation to encourage being sponsorshipfrom his father's country of Kenya...meaning he needs a Kenyan passport, in addition tohisIndonesian one .

But WHO QUALIFIES for the Fullbright Scholarships? :


http://www.cies.org/about_fulb.htm

The Fullbright scholarship either BRINGS FOREIGN STUDENTS TO THE UNITED STATES to learn and be educated to receive/obtain a college/university undergraduate degree, or it will ONLY sponsor existing College/University US CITIZEN GRADUATES (prefereably Master's Degree and above) to go abroad.


http://us.fulbrightonline.org/thinking.html

Since Obama was then 18-20 yr. old Barry Soetoro...Obama was AT THAT TIME , defined by the Financial Aid terms of the Fullbright Scholarship in 1979, 1980, 1981...as a NON-US CITIZEN and "foreign national".
-- Brianroy]

...Obama needs to provide original vital records or certified copies of such records, as computerised documents might be photoshopped. This is particularly important, as representative of Hawaii health department, Dr. Fukino has only released a statement, that the Hi Health department has A document on file. She did not elaborate, what document.


Since HI statute 338 allows foreign born children of Hawaiian residents to obtain Hawaiian birth certificates (as it was reportedly obtained for Obama’s half sister Maya Soetoro, born in Indonesia) and those can be obtained based on a statement of one relative only, such as grandmother or grandfather (which of course can be biased), it is imperative that the courts hear those cases on the merits and that the law enforcement and judges finally start doing their job and sign subpoenas for all of Obama’s vital records.

If you have certified copies of any original documents, please mail them to my office

Dr. Orly Taitz, ESQ,
26302 La Paz, ste 211
Mission Viejo , CA 92691.



http://www.usjf.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=537

Danke
05-01-2009, 11:28 AM
YouTube - Hillary Clinton: Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI_SqqJIU14)

acptulsa
05-01-2009, 11:31 AM
Lol. Yeah, the vast right-wing conspiracy filled out his grant application. That must be it! :cool:

acptulsa
05-01-2009, 11:53 AM
Huh. Thought this was a hotter topic than this. Guess I didn't give it a lively enough headline.

sratiug
05-01-2009, 12:09 PM
Huh. Thought this was a hotter topic than this. Guess I didn't give it a lively enough headline.

We're all busy pinching ourselves to see if we will wake up and checking the calendar to see how Christmas snuck up on us...

This is OUTSTANDING NEWS!

angelatc
05-01-2009, 12:11 PM
Huh. Thought this was a hotter topic than this. Guess I didn't give it a lively enough headline.

I don't think that they'll uphold the law. They've shown zero interest in it so far.

devil21
05-01-2009, 12:34 PM
What's with the Barry Soetoro name? Is that BHO's real name? I know its off topic from the OP, sorry. Just trying to figure out the name thing since I see it pop up here and there.

acptulsa
05-01-2009, 12:34 PM
Undoubtedly they'd prefer not to, angelatc. But with the AP picking it up, I can't help but think Pandora's Box is open.

I hope we'll spin it as a nice indication of their disdain for the very system of laws they're supposed to be not only upholding, but creating. I also hope we'll make constant reference to McCain's birth in the Republic of Panama. Otherwise, they'll work very hard to--and probably have more than a little success at--painting a perverted picture of our motives.


What's with the Barry Soetoro name? Is that BHO's real name? I know its off topic from the OP, sorry. Just trying to figure out the name thing since I see it pop up here and there.

No, but he used it as an alias for quite a while.

dannno
05-01-2009, 12:49 PM
Can anybody rebut this response from an Obama supporter for me??



I don't think a child can legally renounce citizenship..

acptulsa
05-01-2009, 12:52 PM
Can anybody rebut this response from an Obama supporter for me??

I don't think so, either. How would that fact help Obama's case?

dannno
05-01-2009, 12:57 PM
I don't think so, either. How would that fact help Obama's case?

Well in this case, we're assuming he was born in the US (since there is not much real evidence that he was born here or Kenya).. And when he was a kid, he went to Indonesia to go to a school which was predominantly Muslim, and which required that he have Indonesian citizenship. So he got Indonesian citizenship to go to this school, which automatically renounces his US citizenship according to the laws at the time.. but my friend is using the fact that he was a child and his parents made the decision..

torchbearer
05-01-2009, 01:01 PM
I don't think so, either. How would that fact help Obama's case?

Obama was born a british subject in Kenya, held a Indonesia passport at one time, and took foreign aid to go to college.
sums it up.

torchbearer
05-01-2009, 01:03 PM
Well in this case, we're assuming he was born in the US (since there is not much real evidence that he was born here or Kenya).. And when he was a kid, he went to Indonesia to go to a school which was predominantly Muslim, and which required that he have Indonesian citizenship. So he got Indonesian citizenship to go to this school, which automatically renounces his US citizenship according to the laws at the time.. but my friend is using the fact that he was a child and his parents made the decision..

doesn't matter whose decision. A parent is a "legal" guardian of their child until emancipation.

dannno
05-01-2009, 01:07 PM
Here was my response:



"Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct. (for example, APPLYING FOR FINANCIAL AID AS A FOREIGN CITIZEN AS AN ADULT!)"

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

dannno
05-01-2009, 01:10 PM
Although here is some contradictory information, coming from a .uk site tho..


Losing It - Giving It Up

The following is a brief summary of the procedure by which US citizenship can be relinquished or renounced. Anyone considering expatriation should obtain both immigration and tax advice before taking such a step.

There are two ways a person may lose his or her US citizenship. The first is rescission of citizenship, known as ‘denaturalization.’ This is applicable only to naturalized citizens and is outside the scope of this article.

The second way to expatriate oneself is to voluntarily perform any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing citizenship:

1. Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state after attaining the age of 18;
2. Taking an oath or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state after attaining the age of 18;
3. Entering the armed forces of a foreign country if either
a. the armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the US; or
b. the person serves as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer;
4. Accepting employment or performing the duties of any office or post with a foreign government after attaining the age of 18, if
a. one has or acquires the nationality of that foreign state or
b. a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position;
5. Formally renouncing US citizenship before a US diplomatic or consular officer outside the US;
6. Formally renouncing US citizenship in writing within the US in time of war; or
7. Committing an act of treason for which one is convicted.

For citizenship purposes, the effective date of loss of citizenship is the date the person performs the potentially expatriating act.

The actions listed above can cause loss of US citizenship only if performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing US citizenship. In this regard, the US Department of State (the US government agency responsible for determining the US citizenship status of a person who is outside the US), has a uniform standard of evidence which presumes that a US citizen intends to retain citizenship when he or she obtains naturalization in a foreign state; subscribes to a routine declaration of allegiance to a foreign state; or accepts a non-policy level employment with a foreign government. A ‘routine declaration of allegiance’ is generally one which does not contain a provision requiring the person to renounce former allegiances.

http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/article3.htm



Seems like applying for aid as an adult and a foreigner would be a formal declaration of allegiance, though..

tonesforjonesbones
05-01-2009, 01:17 PM
those links don't follow to the article posted..where is the link to the posted article? tones

Todd
05-01-2009, 01:18 PM
What's with the Barry Soetoro name? Is that BHO's real name? I know its off topic from the OP, sorry. Just trying to figure out the name thing since I see it pop up here and there.

I've been hearing that name since the primaries, but never held much credence to it until today. Wow!!

acptulsa
05-01-2009, 01:22 PM
those links don't follow to the article posted..where is the link to the posted article? tones

All the links got broken when I pasted it. The first link works, and you can use any of the other links from there.

anaconda
05-01-2009, 01:23 PM
Huh. Thought this was a hotter topic than this. Guess I didn't give it a lively enough headline.



O.K. What's the catch, here? This should be front page headlines. If the court agreed on April 1st, how come we're only hearing about this a month later? Something is fishy here. This seems absolute proof that either Obama is a foreigner or he committed fraud in applying for financial aid. Either way he's out.

So, please: What's the catch?

And, thanks for the post.

I mean, how come Alan Keyes isn't talking this up in public? Why wasn't it all over the blogs on April 1st????

acptulsa
05-01-2009, 01:26 PM
I mean, how come Alan Keyes isn't talking this up in public? Why wasn't it all over the blogs on April 1st????

Didn't notice the date. Hate it when that date comes up. I don't know--it came in from the meetup, and I kind of got in a hurry to alert the troops...

Bern
05-01-2009, 01:28 PM
Subject: Smoking gun finally found?

April 1, 2009

So, is this an old April Fools joke that is being re-circulated? Seems like, if it were legitimate, it would have been all over the internet in last few weeks.

anaconda
05-01-2009, 01:29 PM
Didn't notice the date. Hate it when that date comes up. I don't know--it came in from the meetup, and I kind of got in a hurry to alert the troops...


Don't get me wrong..this is fascinating as hell. Thanks again for the post. I had been wondering about developments in the natural born citizen question.

Original_Intent
05-01-2009, 01:32 PM
I noticed the April 1, 2009 date and couldn't help but think this is an April Fool's joke that got taken seriously. I would love to be wrong.

anaconda
05-01-2009, 01:34 PM
I noticed the April 1, 2009 date and couldn't help but think this is an April Fool's joke that got taken seriously. I would love to be wrong.

Well, does anyone know how to check the SCOTUS docket?

Bern
05-01-2009, 01:36 PM
I've done some basic cursory searching and I'm going to go ahead and say this is most probably bullshit. Can't find a single media reference to the supposed AP news story - just regurgitations on conspiracy theory websites.

anaconda
05-01-2009, 01:46 PM
I've done some basic cursory searching and I'm going to go ahead and say this is most probably bullshit. Can't find a single media reference to the supposed AP news story - just regurgitations on conspiracy theory websites.

Me too. I'm not coming up with anything. Besides, "transcripts" are grade reports. I don't think they show financial aid information.

acptulsa
05-01-2009, 01:51 PM
Well, sorry guys. Thought someone had something there. Didn't think to check that date a month after April Fools... :o

Bradley in DC
05-01-2009, 02:18 PM
Just for fun, I went to the Associated Press site and pasted the first sentence of their alleged story cited here and got this response, "There were no matches for your search."

I Googled the sentence and only got a few random blogs.