Split from CR's Swine Flu News and Updates thread

[tangent4ronpaul]

> Cases have also been reported in New York, California and Kansas and a British Airways pilot has been hospitalised in London with flu symptoms after returning from Mexico.

I saw a post a bit back about an outbreak in Egypt, add NZ and England now...

I think we have a Pandemic guys...

-t

[revolutionary8]

CR-
I must say, I am troubled by your latest "fearmogering" tactic, especially due to the fact that you are the "resident 'leader of fear mongering' hater".
I have some questions...
Do you think that the "swine flu" has NOT reared it's ugliest head before?
Do you find anything to be SUSPICIOUS about the fact that we have big pharma (Baxter) *guiding us* towards a "cure"?
Do you "believe in" that "cure"?

I have plenty more questions if you are so kind as to answer those...

[tangent4ronpaul]

Who cares if this "crisis" was manufactured or not. Yes - it probably was, for profit and political gain. Point being is that we are playing with fire and people are dying. A lot more will before it's over. Probably some of us.

I really hope I'm wrong! but right now the body count is going exponential and our country is 6-7 days behind the curve... A "fizzle" here would be MOST WELCOME!

It's obvious that the whole things stinks to high hell - but dealing with it and hunkering down should be the priority right now. Protect yourself! Pissed off heads on pikes and laying blame can come later - but you need to live through it if you want your revenge.

We are truly living in interesting times. This is a dangerous situation.

-t

[LiveFree79]

Body count is going exponential? LMAO! Come on dude the world is 6+ billion people. This outbreak is hardly exponential, YET!

Flu pandemics are VERY scary but it's best to remain calm right now. I work in healthcare in southern California and this is hitting a little too close to home. I've been sick for the last week and am getting better, almost feel 100%. I'm gonna boost my immune system with some raw coconut, natual anti-viral. What else can any of us do if this thing does get out of hand? I mean really? Why panic yet? Wouldn't hurt to pick up some hospital masks either. Other than that calm down dude! I see a ton of fear mongering on websites as of now and it's unnecessary.

What I find weird is this is not all over the news, yahoo etc.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Body count is going exponential? LMAO! Come on dude the world is 6+ billion people. This outbreak is hardly exponential, YET!

Flu pandemics are VERY scary but it's best to remain calm right now. I work in healthcare in southern California and this is hitting a little too close to home. I've been sick for the last week and am getting better, almost feel 100%. I'm gonna boost my immune system with some raw coconut, natual anti-viral. What else can any of us do if this thing does get out of hand? I mean really? Why panic yet? Wouldn't hurt to pick up some hospital masks either. Other than that calm down dude! I see a ton of fear mongering on websites as of now and it's unnecessary.

What I find weird is this is not all over the news, yahoo etc.

2 days ago there were 14 "official" casualties. yesterday there were 68...

Would you like some ketchup with those words?



-t

[sevin]

First, why is this in the General Politics section? Second, some of you seem to be enjoying this swine flu stuff a little too much.

[asimplegirl]

See my thread in off topic and you wills ee why it is such a big deal to me.



From said thread:


Here are the things going around in my head:

The POTUS can declare a "state of emergency" is threat level becomes red in this country.
If the DHS claims that threat level in US is orange, and red at airports, and that is the virus moves again in the next 24 hours, they may move the level to red in the country period...

Would that not mean Obama can declare state of emergency?

Is it not true that in a state of emergency, the constitution would become null and void, and marshall law would take effect?

Does the bill that Bush amended to allow troops to be active under POTUS order to help Katrina victims scare anyone in this situation?

Doesn't this have the potential to be the "perfect storm"?

Could the state of emergency, used in conjunction with the bill Bush amended not be used to legally disarm US citizens, and allow troops to take into custody anyone the POTUS wishes?

[Agent CSL]

Here's my personal opinion:

It's going to be bad, but not as bad as everyone is expecting. In 1918 you heard horror stories of people dying on the streets, or getting in a cab healthy as a horse, then keeling over 5 minutes later. 1918's H1N1 was bad primarily because modern medicine wasn't as good as it is today, we didn't know how to protect ourselves, and there were some grave mistakes made.

Today we have anti-bacterials and better hygiene. I think, unless this strain is resistant to triclosan and lye and other anti-bacterial soaps (we've yet to know that), the spread will be minimal.

Go ahead and wear a surgical mask if you want to, but flu and other airbornes can also enter through your eyes or any open cuts. Touching objects like chairs, desks and doors and then rubbing your eyes is a good way to catch the flu.

Take it away T4RP. ;)

[tangent4ronpaul]

Have to look up triclosan and lye. Hmm - anti-bacterial and anti-fungal, NOT anti-viral. Well, according to Wikipedia - another reason not to trust it (Wikipedia). A journal on infection control describes a limited antiviral spectrum for it and then there is this: Antiviral Res. 2000 Feb;45(2):149-53.
"An antiviral assay was developed for evaluating efficiency of handsoaps at inactivating cell-free and cell-associated virus.... Two antibacterial handsoaps, one surgical handsoap, one moisturizing handsoap, and a sanitizing agent were tested. ... The antibacterial soaps inactivated all cell-free virus in 1 min. The surgical soap was effective with a 5-min incubation. None of the soaps eliminated all of the cell-associated virus in 1 min."

Two things that are effective against viruses are bleach and alcohol:

http://www.pcc.com/lists/pedtalk.archive/0402/00005.html

I know hand washing isn't the most interesting thing in the world, but I did work with some isolation patients and aside from the gyrations of gowning, gloving and masking up - there are 2 things I did learn that most people don't know or at least follow: You need to wash your hands for at least 1 minute with the hottest water you can stand. and If you are caring for someone that is sick, you need to wash your hands and mask up before going in to protect them because their immune system is overloaded and it's easier for them to catch something. then you wash your hands again when you leave to protect yourself. This only applies to infectious diseases.

People who are sick should have their own dishes, etc. that are washed separately. Otherwise everyone else in the house will get sick.


The reasons it could be worse is that in 1918 people were more spread out - creating a natural buffer by limiting spread. Now, people are mostly packed into cities making for easier transmission. Likewise, there is greater use of mass transit, be that buses, subways or aircraft. Doctors used to make house calls, now the Dr's/ER waiting room is disease central. Grocery stores are one of the the primary places to get sick now, so are schools. primary vectors: money, door handles at public places, grocery store cart handles, public restrooms.

Because of modern transportation, it's going to spread all over at once and instead of being able to fight it in one area, it's more likely to overwhelm supply chains and drug stockpiles. We do have tamiflu now - but the government has 15 Million doses for 300 Million people. They haven't started producing a vaccine (have a seed stock), and that should take at least 6 weeks after they start producing it. Vaccines don't do any good if you are already sick. The CDC came out and indicated they can't contain it and the white house is sounding an alarm, so is the World Health Organization.

I agree that we know how to protect ourselves - and that will make a huge difference. However, don't under-rate masks when out or around sick people. That's probably the most effective thing you can do next to social distancing and hand washing.

In short, this isn't looking good.

Incidentally, when Japan had a bad outbreak a few years ago, someone came out with designer masks and they caught on really well. They became a fashion statement.

-t

[LATruth]

There is a pic in the picture thread going viral... lawl

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-swine-flu27-2009apr27,0,3534516.story

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said the government would release a quarter of its 50-million-unit strategic reserve of antiviral medications, which combat the disease in infected patients, to states where outbreaks had occurred.

Besser said the CDC had isolated the swine flu virus and prepared a "seed stock" for the manufacture of a vaccine but will not distribute it to pharmaceutical companies until the situation becomes more severe. Manufacture of a new vaccine will require months.

[Original_Intent]

2 days ago there were 14 "official" casualties. yesterday there were 68...

Would you like some ketchup with those words?



-t

So you are predicting 200 casualties today and 800 tomorrow?

[A. Havnes]

Anyone have any ideas for natural remedies. I want to be ready just in case.

[Vessol]

So you are predicting 200 casualties today and 800 tomorrow?

I doubt the numbers coming out of Mexico are real. I imagine it is much higher.


Anyone have any ideas for natural remedies. I want to be ready just in case.

Building a strong immune system will do more harm then good, considering swine flu causes a cytokine storm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

"Should H5N1 become the next pandemic strain, the resultant morbidity and mortality could rival those of 1918, when more than half the deaths occurred among largely healthy people between 18 and 40 years of age and were caused by a virus-induced cytokine storm (see diagram) that led to the acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS).4 The ARDS-related morbidity and mortality in the pandemic of 1918 was on a different scale from those of 1957 and 1968 — a fact that highlights the importance of the virulence of the virus subtype or genotype. Clinical, epidemiologic, and laboratory evidence suggests that a pandemic caused by the current H5N1 strain would be more likely to mimic the 1918 pandemic than those that occurred more recently.5 If we translate the rate of death associated with the 1918 influenzavirus to that in the current population, there could be 1.7 million deaths in the United States and 180 million to 360 million deaths globally. We have an extremely limited armamentarium with which to handle millions of cases of ARDS — one not much different from that available to the front-line medical corps in 1918."
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/352/18/1839

"Scientists have used tissue samples from frozen victims to reproduce the virus for study. Given the strain's extreme virulence there has been controversy regarding the wisdom of such research. Among the conclusions of this research is that the virus kills via a cytokine storm (overreaction of the body's immune system) which explains its unusually severe nature and the concentrated age profile of its victims. The strong immune systems of young adults ravaged the body, whereas the weaker immune systems of children and middle-aged adults caused fewer deaths."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

[Reason]

So you are predicting 200 casualties today and 800 tomorrow?

The quote on the BBC article that is supposedly coming from a doctor in mexico has been widely circulated due to the fact that it claims that there are apx 200 dead in Mexico.

The main reason for deaths in Mexico versus no deaths in the US is that a lot of the people in Mexico waited until they were very very sick before seeking medical attention; and even then, for quite some time Mexican health care providers did not know that swine flu was the culprit.

It is very likely that if the virus had started within the United States there would have been a few deaths before the CDC caught on. We [US] are benefiting from the fact that the Mexican victims were infected first.

[silverhawks]

Also, looking at this as a potential false flag bio-terror attack...

This theoretically has three main objectives:

a) to generate huge public consent for the Mexican government to do something at a time when it is already foundering from a literal war with drug cartels - scaring the public into exchanging liberty in exchange for security;

b) to increase fear of Mexican immigrants inside America;

c) allows the Mexican government the ability to declare martial law through a national emergency.

[Vessol]

For a bunch of people who call yourselves skeptics, you sure jump to the other side of the argument pretty fast.

It's too early to really judge anything.

[RideTheDirt]

For a bunch of people who call yourselves skeptics, you sure jump to the other side of the argument pretty fast.

It's too early to really judge anything.

this guy is right

[Original_Intent]

For a bunch of people who call yourselves skeptics, you sure jump to the other side of the argument pretty fast.

It's too early to really judge anything.

I totally agree with this. It is way to early to say the death toll is increasing exponentially - that's nothing but fear-mongering.

[Ninja Homer]

I'm growing more skeptical of this by the moment. Obviously the flu that people died of in Mexico City is particularly nasty, but it's starting to look to me like it isn't contagious from person to person. The incubation period of the flu is usually about 2 days. Considering Mexico City has a population of over 22 million people, it seems to me that if this was a real pandemic we should be seeing reports of at least 10's of thousands of people that have caught it, and thousands dead.

I think the flu strain that has killed people in Mexico may just be contagious from pig to person. The only case of the flu that I've heard was verified as the exact same strain as the one in Mexico is the 9 year old boy in Ohio, and he recently vacationed in Mexico and visited farms.

As for the other cases of the flu being reported around the world, I think it may just be a different strain of flu. All have reportedly just had mild flu symptoms.

Obviously I'm no expert in this, and this is just a theory I'm leaning more and more towards, but it seems fishy that it hasn't spread faster in a crowded city of 22 million people.

[AgentOrange]

Your theory makes sense, assuming the the number of deaths the media is reporting are correct. Whether or not the media is reporting the truth remains to be seen.

[Vessol]

I totally agree with this. It is way to early to say the death toll is increasing exponentially - that's nothing but fear-mongering.

If anything the media is hiding deaths. Lots of reports out of Mexico City had it made out to be a LOT worse.

Because we know EVERYTHING that the Mexican media says is the absolute truth, including death tolls :rolleyes:

[tangent4ronpaul]

If anything the media is hiding deaths. Lots of reports out of Mexico City had it made out to be a LOT worse.

Because we know EVERYTHING that the Mexican media says is the absolute truth, including death tolls :rolleyes:

I agree - the media and the gvmt are LIARS!

This has been proven time after time again!

-t