The GOP is a Shrinking Entity!!!!

[speciallyblend]

so a mccain aid figured it out finally?? shame they do not understand they are the prime reason it is shrinking!!!

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/23/senior-mccain-aide-the-gop-is-a-shrinking-entity/


i really am speechless on the gop right now. the only positive thing left in the gop to me is the ron paul republicans. In my book the rest of them(so called gop leaders) are corrupt liars.


i can tell you on the day i went to the tea party here in denver. The gop had no friends in the 8000 people there! the only ones to blame are our own cogop leadership for that!!

I truly feel ashamed for being a republican!!!

i even tried floating the idea to registered CP/LP/TP that if they showed up to a gop meeting we would be the gop! the gop leadership has screwed themselves so bad ,no one in colorado wants anything to do with them!

I will stay a republican for now,but if the gop doesn't wake up soon. we will not have to worry about a colorado gop there will be none by 2012 if they keep down this pathetic path.

Colorado is RIPE for a NEW POLITICAL COALITION with or without the failed gop!!!

the gop is marginalizing themselves to the point of non-existence here in Colorado, until the gop figures out WE RON PAUL REPUBLICANS are THE NEW BASE. They will not get our votes until they support our PLATFORM!!

The good news is if the gop doesn't straighten their act up soon. We will not need them, the 3rd party movement is strong in Colorado. The people didn't show up to the Tea Party in Denver for the gop. They showed up for Colorado and i have to say i was lucky i didn't get attacked for talking good about the gop! I just got this crazy look from most folks like is this guy seriously trying to promote the gop??

After the Tea Party, all i can tell the national and state gop leadership is they are truly deaf dumb and blind!!

I am so frustrated at our gop. i have to remind myself why i am a republican?

I cannot speak for the rest of the country,but i can tell you the gop is in serious trouble and trying to get someone to show to a gop meeting is like getting them to jump off a 20 story building! (insert worst scenario and this is how republicans in colorado and lake county feel not just reg voters!

do you know if i had just one person show to my precinct in the primary ron paul would of won. the problem isn't ron paul it is the fact no one wants anything to do with the republican party in my county. this is not me speaking this is the people speaking and i tried everything from door to door to calling all my precincts and calling all registered republicans. All i can say is the republican party is sinking fast like the titanic and the folks do not want to board the ship(gop aka sinking titanic). We just might have to take the lifeboats and save the republicans worth saving and take our votes elsewhere!!!

the common theme in colorado is everyone loves ron paul and his message but no one wants anything to do with the cogop!! sad but true!! all i can say is thanks cogop (and the rest of the state gops and national) for making your brandname pretty much WORTHLESS. ps i have never felt so dirty being a republican!!

we will see what the gop gives us in the future but i am not buying their cookie cutter crap for sure.

THE COGOP is now on notice, shape up or you will be shipped out like the last 2 elections. your democratic party fear mongering is not a reason to vote in corrupt republicans!!

The GOP better shape up unless they want to be the new whigs in history books!!

HISTORY!!!


PS wife is out of surgery but in major pain 14 vertebrae were fused together. sniffle doing my best to help her recover. if anyone wants to have updates on my wife you can add my facebook snowshoehippie@yahoo.com

[Matt Collins]

This is why it's prime for us to get in there and recapture the GOP for limited government. Then in the next few election cycles we can hopefully get some libertarian Republicans into office.

[HOLLYWOOD]

or... form the TEA PARTY

GOP is entrenched with fascist power control... they are doomed. The cleaned cut, neocon image, wielding swords and fear ideology is dying a slow death.

[He Who Pawns]

I truly feel ashamed for being a republican!!!


Well then LEAVE the GOP! Register LP for now, but definitely don't stay republican. That is a sinking ship.

[speciallyblend]

This is why it's prime for us to get in there and recapture the GOP for limited government. Then in the next few election cycles we can hopefully get some libertarian Republicans into office.

matt the problem is no one wants a dam thing to do with the republican party, even republicans. This is not something i or we caused. It is almost impossible to mention anything to do with the republican party without turning folks off. It truly has become a scarlet letter in most circles.

If what you were saying is true, then screw lobbying the people. we need to lobby the leaders of the CP/LP/TP and the GOP(ron paul republicans) and encourage those parties to comeback to the gop. of course i have tried this ,if you cannot get republicans,lp,cp,tp to come to a gop meeting who do you suggest illegaL ALIENS?? DEMOCRATS?? sorry caps, very frustrating really. we would be better off trying to give away free shamwows if they attend a gop meeting??

[speciallyblend]

Well then LEAVE the GOP! Register LP for now, but definitely don't stay republican. That is a sinking ship.

I was LP for almost 12 yrs. i am doing my best for state activism. I remind myself liberty has no party!!

I will help liberty wherever it sprouts no matter the party!! to be honest i do not have to be a member of any party to vote for them!

I will stay republican for now because i understand what ron paul is saying,but if the gop doesn't straighten itself up soon, then i will be the first to put the dying dog down.

I hope someone in the gop leadership is listening loud and clear,We are not going to take their bs anymore!!

if the lp,cp and tp leaders actually told their members to register republican and show up to the meetings . There would be NO NEED FOR A 3RD PARTY.

seems alot easier to choose that path,but i guess toooooooo many egos in the lp/cp/tp to swallow their pride and actually take back the gop.

maybe in the next 4-12 yrs the lp/cp/tp will pull their heads out of their asses until then i doubt much will come from the lp/cp/tp or the gop!!

[HOLLYWOOD]

good call... if the GOP, CP, LP, TP, don't unite, your looking at the next 7 1/2 years of Communist/Socialist rule.

It's the tainted, old, Corporatist of he GOP at can't come to grips, all the other parties cann come together. There's the ideology problem with the GOP.

Rush Limbaugh making GOP policies? Corporatists like Romney, Huckleberry, Steele, Duncan, Boehner, Cantor, Pence, etc... as long as they win their district by substantial majorities, you're not going to see change.

What was Boehner's take for Banks/Corporations last year $3 Million. Another money puppet leading the party? SAD


matt the problem is no one wants a dam thing to do with the republican party, even republicans. This is not something i or we caused. It is almost impossible to mention anything to do with the republican party without turning folks off. It truly has become a scarlet letter in most circles.

If what you were saying is true, then screw lobbying the people. we need to lobby the leaders of the CP/LP/TP and the GOP(ron paul republicans) and encourage those parties to comeback to the gop. of course i have tried this ,if you cannot get republicans,lp,cp,tp to come to a gop meeting who do you suggest illegaL ALIENS?? DEMOCRATS?? sorry caps, very frustrating really. we would be better off trying to give away free shamwows if they attend a gop meeting??

[speciallyblend]

so how do we organize the leaders/members of the tp,cp and lp and get them back to the gop??? that is really the big question?

[Aratus]

isn't this all a paraphrasing of the basics of the operation cat*herder question?

[He Who Pawns]

so how do we organize the leaders/members of the tp,cp and lp and get them back to the gop??? that is really the big question?

Fuck the GOP. They are a lost cause, a sinking ship. What we really need is a new party or a national figure to unite everyone under one banner. IMO, there needs to be a "Freedom Party" or "Liberty Party" that unites all the fiscal conservatives and libertarians under one flag. The trouble is, you need a great national figure to do it, and right now, I don't see anyone who can. Dr Paul could have done well as a third party candidate in 2008, but chose not to. So all we can do is plan, work, and hope that a powerful libertarian national leader emerges at some point.

You know, it can happen. Look how fast that Hannan guy became an instant worldwide star, with only one youtube video, in a 24 hour cycle! I am confident that a leader will emerge for us.

[dgr]

From 2003 until now I have called the RNC and my GOP representatives, asking one question
When are republicians going to save themselves? I with held money I refused to work on campaigns, I voted for all the "other" no democratic candidates in primaries, and phone surveys. The answer is they are not going to change, thye are reling on the lesser of two evils vote to overcome the Obama left wing, and it is not going to happen. I don't want anyone to go to jail over waterboarding, but I do want republicians to go to jail over the border patrol agents and a lot of Dept of defense scams, BUT THE DEMOCRATS WILL NEVER DO THIS BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST AS INVOLVEND. As long as democrats control and get out the vote in large cities in large states we will not be able to defeat them and if they pass Amnesty they will never be out of office, unless the christiian democrats defect to another party

[VIDEODROME]

Could this trend actually become an awkward situation for the Democrats? If the GOP fails who are they going to debate against during the elections if the Republican party's viability falls so far as to be equal to that of other 3rd parties?

They need some kind of opponent if politicians want the sheeple to keep believing in our sham democracy. I mean at first it might seem cool to them to be in such a powerful dominating position but after a while more people might start to feel uncomfortable about it. It might feel to close to a dictatorship if the Democrats have a political monopoly.

[speciallyblend]

isn't this all a paraphrasing of the basics of the operation cat*herder question?

not really ,it is about party members in the lp/cp/tp and the gop swallowing their egos and doing the right thing and uniting!!

i can see where you think it is cat herding,but reality the cp/lp and tp are pretty much on the same page as the ron paul republicans ,no herding needed,just some swallowing of pride. until then i am not sure what you call it!!

but i do hear you!!

if the gop doesn't wake up soon, then we need to figure how to form a new party that includes the cp/lp/tp and the ron paul republicans. if we do this then the gop leadership will not matter.

[speciallyblend]

Fuck the GOP. They are a lost cause, a sinking ship. What we really need is a new party or a national figure to unite everyone under one banner. IMO, there needs to be a "Freedom Party" or "Liberty Party" that unites all the fiscal conservatives and libertarians under one flag. The trouble is, you need a great national figure to do it, and right now, I don't see anyone who can. Dr Paul could have done well as a third party candidate in 2008, but chose not to. So all we can do is plan, work, and hope that a powerful libertarian national leader emerges at some point.

You know, it can happen. Look how fast that Hannan guy became an instant worldwide star, with only one youtube video, in a 24 hour cycle! I am confident that a leader will emerge for us.

I like Liberty Party a banner even lp/cp/tp and dems and indys and republicans can flock to:) and then liberty forest will fit right in:) see there you go RPF:)

[He Who Pawns]

Yeah, the "Liberty" party could attract of lot of Dems, too. All those college kids who voted for Hussein and then got a rude wakeup call when he laughed at their marijuana question on live TV... they will come to us! The Liberty Party would be much more dangerous to the Dems than this broken-down GOP.

[heavenlyboy34]

glad you're finally getting it, OP! I hope that you will rediscover the value you have as an individual now that you've had this experience-and how bad political parties are at recognizing the individual's value and representing him. :cool::D

Do I smell an individualist awakening coming among the duped masses? :):cool::D

[surf]

Well then LEAVE the GOP! Register LP for now, but definitely don't stay republican. That is a sinking ship.

porblem is ballot access laws and laws (like in Washington State which passed the "Top 2" initiative a few years back) that seemingly prohibit political competition. i'm ssure you all know this, and as libertarians have experienced this.

being a staunch libertarian myself (and grudgingly a GOP precinct officer) i have somewhat resigned myself that breaking up this political monopoly (or duopoly if you can defferentiate the two parties) is a fruitless endeavor in the near future.

and while the vast majority of us hold disdain for power, "power" - in the form of election victories - is what we need to change things. it's what we need to do in order to diminish the power of the state and return it to the people. in essence, we can and should still be "republicans," but we are more than that: we're Ron Paul republicans.

just my .02.

[heavenlyboy34]

so how do we organize the leaders/members of the tp,cp and lp and get them back to the gop??? that is really the big question?

This is not a good idea. It's another attempt at the failed ideology of collectivism. :p Get over the GOP and let it R.I.P. ;):) Let individuals be individuals!:cool:

[heavenlyboy34]

porblem is ballot access laws and laws (like in Washington State which passed the "Top 2" initiative a few years back) that seemingly prohibit political competition. i'm ssure you all know this, and as libertarians have experienced this.

being a staunch libertarian myself (and grudgingly a GOP precinct officer) i have somewhat resigned myself that breaking up this political monopoly (or duopoly if you can defferentiate the two parties) is a fruitless endeavor in the near future.

and while the vast majority of us hold disdain for power, "power" - in the form of election victories - is what we need to change things. it's what we need to do in order to diminish the power of the state and return it to the people. in essence, we can and should still be "republicans," but we are more than that: we're Ron Paul republicans.

just my .02.

How do you resolve the moral dilemma you've put yourself into? You claim to be a libertarian, yet you align yourself politically with statists! :eek:

[slacker921]

At my GOP district convention the speakers almost all stood up and said they hoped the GOP would back the "marriage is between one man and one woman" bills... that was their main focus. They got nothing but applause.

The evangelical right still thinks people will go for a party that legislates morality.. they think that's the key issue for the 2010 election.... . even in a time when the Democrats AND Republicans are consistently screwing the taxpayer.

I really think the only reason the GOP is relevant anymore is as an "anti-Obama" or "anti-Democrats" party. Few people I talk to know what Bush did to the constitution. Few know that their Republican representatives voted recently for Obama's "Choice" Act (the $6Billion forced/paid volunteerism bill). Few can tell me what they want their Republican candidates to do different from Bush (i.e. ask them if Bush ran in 2012 would he win? .. nope.. then what should the candidate for 2012 do differently? ... crickets..)

[speciallyblend]

At my GOP district convention the speakers almost all stood up and said they hoped the GOP would back the "marriage is between one man and one woman" bills... that was their main focus. They got nothing but applause.

The evangelical right still thinks people will go for a party that legislates morality.. they think that's the key issue for the 2010 election.... . even in a time when the Democrats AND Republicans are consistently screwing the taxpayer.

I really think the only reason the GOP is relevant anymore is as an "anti-Obama" or "anti-Democrats" party. Few people I talk to know what Bush did to the constitution. Few know that their Republican representatives voted recently for Obama's "Choice" Act (the $6Billion forced/paid volunteerism bill). Few can tell me what they want their Republican candidates to do different from Bush (i.e. ask them if Bush ran in 2012 would he win? .. nope.. then what should the candidate for 2012 do differently? ... crickets..)

if the gop runs on the gay marriage issue crap ,then you can count the gop as history like the whigs!!! you can count my vote on that!!

Liberty for Christians and no one else should be the new platform for the gop, gasps sigh pathetic!!

[Matt Collins]

matt the problem is no one wants a dam thing to do with the republican partyWell if people are either too lazy or too prideful to get dirty then our Republic has already been lost :rolleyes:


It is almost impossible to mention anything to do with the republican party without turning folks off. It truly has become a scarlet letter in most circles.Really? I've gotten over 70+ people involved with the local Republican Party just by encouraging them to show up and change it. And trust me, we dominated the room on more than 1 occasion.


If what you were saying is true, then screw lobbying the people. we need to lobby the leaders of the CP/LP/TP and the GOP(ron paul republicans) and encourage those parties to comeback to the gop. of course i have tried this ,Both Ron and Rand Paul have given us marching orders to do this. Go back and watch some of their speeches from Dec
+ Jan 07/08.

[Matt Collins]

When are republicians going to save themselves?They're NOT. WEhave to do it ourselves. Remember this is a Revolution, not a canoe trip.

[speciallyblend]

They're NOT. WEhave to do it ourselves. Remember this is a Revolution, not a canoe trip.

i hear you matt ,i do and do not get me wrong . I try my hardest i do!

maybe we need a few more months of obama and failed gop leadership before more folks actually wake up!!

but in Colorado the LP/TP and the dems have more credibility then the gop,very hard to sell the gop in Colorado,almost impossible!! very frustrating

[Theocrat]

Well then LEAVE the GOP! Register LP for now, but definitely don't stay republican. That is a sinking ship.

I feel the same way, except I would encourage him to join the Constitution Party instead. I was once a member of the GOP, but it just doesn't seem open to going back to its roots (at least the members I've encountered in the local GOP where I live). As long as a person is "an elephant," that person is golden, even if there is "elephant dung" all over the place. After all, it smells much better than "donkey shit". That seems to be the attitude of Republicans today.

It's time for a new party to take the reins of libertarian and conservative principles for our republic. In my opinion, the GOP had its time, and the neoconservatives ruined it for outsiders to their party. There really is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats nowadays. The Republicans somehow think they are still distinct from the Democrats just because they use the same jargon of protecting pre-born life, lower taxes, and personal security (among other things). Yet, they continue to vote in favor of similar bills that the Democrats favor (i.e. stimulus packages, bailouts, and entitlement benefits). It's really a shame the GOP has come to that.

The time spent trying to revitalize the GOP could be spent investing in building up support and publicity for a third party. We need a fresh start in this country, so why wouldn't we put our time and energy in strengthening a third party? Some may say, "They can't win," but I find that attitude similar to those who said the same thing about Congressman Paul during the Primaries. Of course a third party can't win if no one is supporting it! It takes time and hard work. Certainly, we don't have that attitude when we try to get better in playing a sport, studying a favored subject or major in school, or beginning a personal project. We need to have that same diligence and faith when we are working to build up a third party. Parties are a means to an end, but they are needful for being successful in politics. We should never forget that if we become discouraged in supporting any party.

[heavenlyboy34]

*HB34 eagerly anticipates the total collapse of the failed 2 party system* :D:):cool:

[speciallyblend]

I feel the same way, except I would encourage him to join the Constitution Party instead. I was once a member of the GOP, but it just doesn't seem open to going back to its roots (at least the members I've encountered in the local GOP where I live). As long as a person is "an elephant," that person is golden, even if there is "elephant dung" all over the place. After all, it smells much better than "donkey shit". That seems to be the attitude of Republicans today.

It's time for a new party to take the reins of libertarian and conservative principles for our republic. In my opinion, the GOP had its time, and the neoconservatives ruined it for outsiders to their party. There really is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats nowadays. The Republicans somehow think they are still distinct from the Democrats just because they use the same jargon of protecting pre-born life, lower taxes, and personal security (among other things). Yet, they continue to vote in favor of similar bills that the Democrats favor (i.e. stimulus packages, bailouts, and entitlement benefits). It's really a shame the GOP has come to that.

The time spent trying to revitalize the GOP could be spent investing in building up support and publicity for a third party. We need a fresh start in this country, so why wouldn't we put our time and energy in strengthening a third party? Some may say, "They can't win," but I find that attitude similar to those who said the same thing about Congressman Paul during the Primaries. Of course a third party can't win if no one is supporting it! It takes time and hard work. Certainly, we don't have that attitude when we try to get better in playing a sport, studying a favored subject or major in school, or beginning a personal project. We need to have that same diligence and faith when we are working to build up a third party. Parties are a means to an end, but they are needful for being successful in politics. We should never forget that if we become discouraged in supporting any party.

i voted for chuck baldwin ,but i have a serious problem with the CP, watching their convention reminded me of a sunday morning sermon . I am not looking for a religious party. I am looking for a Liberty Constitution Party. In my eyes the CP sounds good in basic platform but they lose me with the appearance of a religious sermon for a convention! Do not get me wrong I believe in god or whatever humans try to name him or her;) or label him or her. To me the CP does the samething the religious right has done to the gop . they alienate themselves to the average voter. I have a serious problem with organized religion thinking the US Constitution is for them alone and no one else and that is exactly how organized religions think right along with the failed old gop guard and the right wing of the gop!!

until we figure out away to merge the lp/cp/tp and the good republicans aka ron paul republicans together under a platform of the US Constitution without alienating the voters. then all the 3rd partys and the gop will be pretty much useless until we either change the gop platform or unite these parties under a platform that everyone can unite under. what ron paul showed is his platform can do this easily:) and i mean easily:) but until we knock some heads around in the lp/cp/tp and the gop. we have along way to go and to be honest. I truly think the new path will be a NEW PARTY which these 3rd party can unite under giving the dems and republicans and indys a REAL 3rd Party that unites. The lp/cp/tp are starting to get on the track and moving! I think Ron Paul hit it on the head ,so until we get the leaders of the lp/cp/tp and some in the gop off their asses. there really is no need for a 3rd party if the tp/lp/cp can swallow their egos and GET WITH THE PROGRAM. 3rd party can work locally i think but to me the easier road would be if the lp/cp/tp just freaking registered republican and showed up to the gop meeting then we would be done with all the speculation,until then i say we are 20-40 yrs away from a 3rd party and at least 4-8 yrs from saving the gop from certain death! if the lp/cp/tp would just show up to the gop meetings then. WE would already be controlling the gop yesterday. The leaders of the lp/cp/tp/ better hurry and swallow their pride or all they will have nationally is a useless 3rd party that is ,marginalized by the 2 party system.
This is one reason why i left the LP and joined the sucky ass gop,but to expect the CP to gain traction on their platform, well that is not going to happen. I only voted CP because barr is useless in my eyes and ron paul asked me to and to be honest the lp/cp/tp will be stuck where they are until they figure out they are all on the same page.Until they get off their high horses. they will remain exactly where they are,marginalized.

GIVE ME LIBERTY, GIVE ME A LIBERTY PARTY that unites all these 3rd Parties,until then all we are gonna do is keep marginalizing the LP/CP/TP until they join the gop.

If the Leaders of these parties do not listen to what i/we are saying .Then they can only look in the mirror for the problems they complain about.

The Answer is pretty simple UNITE under the US Constitution, yeah yeah i know the CP says they are the party of the US Constitution,well if they were?? Then their convention wouldn't sound like a organized religious sunday morning sermon that i for one click off! (as the average voter would)
I was proud to vote for Chuck Baldwin, but the CP has along way to go to win my membership and they are not even close,but Ron Paul sure was on the spot or i would of never joined this crap party called the gop!

[speciallyblend]

*HB34 eagerly anticipates the total collapse of the failed 2 party system* :D:):cool:

i hear you. i just wish i had the power to bitch slap the leaders and members of the lp/cp/tp and the gop. if everyone had listened to ron paul we would not need the lp/cp/tp we would be the gop sigh, throws hands in the air!!

all i know is if the gop doesn't listen to Ron Paul , there will be no gop in the future and my republican vote will make sure of it along with many lifetime republicans i know!

We need to lobby the lp/cp/tp more then the neo-cons/sheep. we do this,then we would be the gop yesterday!

i truly believe this or i would of never parted the red sea and joined the republican party.

ps to the gop leadership.I am a new republican and if if this is how you treat new republicans then you are for unlawful carnal knowledged aka as f.u.c.k.e.d. sincerely one pissed of republican:mad:

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

Don't expect the party to change itself. As Matt said, it's up to us to do that.

And we HAVE changed the party already. Believe it or not, we've moved the current inhabitants closer to liberty.

More importantly, we are taking on leadership roles. In Minnesota yesterday, we entirely took over 2 of 3 congressional districts' executive committees. We elected liberty people to their executive committees for all but a couple spots.

By the end of this off-year leadership election cycle, liberty leadership will be in place at all levels in our state in a third to a half of the elected positions. So if we still don't like what's going on, we only have each other to blame.

Just saying, if we don't like the current situation, we can get up and do something about it. It doesn't happen overnight. In MN we laid the groundwork over the last two years. If you're not ready to take it on now, are you at least doing the preparation work?

[Theocrat]

i voted for chuck baldwin ,but i have a serious problem with the CP, watching their convention reminded me of a sunday morning sermon . I am not looking for a religious party. I am looking for a Liberty Constitution Party. In my eyes the CP sounds good in basic platform but they lose me with the appearance of a religious sermon for a convention! Do not get me wrong I believe in god or whatever humans try to name him or her;) or label him or her. To me the CP does the samething the religious right has done to the gop . they alienate themselves to the average voter. I have a serious problem with organized religion thinking the US Constitution is for them alone and no one else and that is exactly how organized religions think right along with the failed old gop guard and the right wing of the gop!!

until we figure out away to merge the lp/cp/tp and the good republicans aka ron paul republicans together under a platform of the US Constitution without alienating the voters. then all the 3rd partys and the gop will be pretty much useless until we either change the gop platform or unite these parties under a platform that everyone can unite under. what ron paul showed is his platform can do this easily:) and i mean easily:) but until we knock some heads around in the lp/cp/tp and the gop. we have along way to go and to be honest. I truly think the new path will be a NEW PARTY which these 3rd party can unite under giving the dems and republicans and indys a REAL 3rd Party that unites. The lp/cp/tp are starting to get on the track and moving! I think Ron Paul hit it on the head ,so until we get the leaders of the lp/cp/tp and some in the gop off their asses. there really is no need for a 3rd party if the tp/lp/cp can swallow their egos and GET WITH THE PROGRAM. 3rd party can work locally i think but to me the easier road would be if the lp/cp/tp just freaking registered republican and showed up to the gop meeting then we would be done with all the speculation,until then i say we are 20-40 yrs away from a 3rd party and at least 4-8 yrs from saving the gop from certain death! if the lp/cp/tp would just show up to the gop meetings then. WE would already be controlling the gop yesterday. The leaders of the lp/cp/tp/ better hurry and swallow their pride or all they will have nationally is a useless 3rd party that is ,marginalized by the 2 party system.
This is one reason why i left the LP and joined the sucky ass gop,but to expect the CP to gain traction on their platform, well that is not going to happen. I only voted CP because barr is useless in my eyes and ron paul asked me to and to be honest the lp/cp/tp will be stuck where they are until they figure out they are all on the same page.Until they get off their high horses. they will remain exactly where they are,marginalized.

GIVE ME LIBERTY, GIVE ME A LIBERTY PARTY that unites all these 3rd Parties,until then all we are gonna do is keep marginalizing the LP/CP/TP until they join the gop.

If the Leaders of these parties do not listen to what i/we are saying .Then they can only look in the mirror for the problems they complain about.

The Answer is pretty simple UNITE under the US Constitution, yeah yeah i know the CP says they are the party of the US Constitution,well if they were?? Then their convention wouldn't sound like a organized religious sunday morning sermon that i for one click off! (as the average voter would)
I was proud to vote for Chuck Baldwin, but the CP has along way to go to win my membership and they are not even close,but Ron Paul sure was on the spot or i would of never joined this crap party called the gop!

Thanks for your reply. The CP recognizes that our republic was founded on Christian religious principles, and without which, our republic cannot function as our Founders intended. I know that is a point of contention, but you have to understand that there is much documented evidence which supports that claim. Of course, that is a topic for a different thread, but I would recommend you peruse the link in my signature to get a glimpse of what I'm talking about.

The problem is today we have many books and authors which give an unfair and wrongly biased view of our nation's heritage and history. It permeates in our educational institutions, and it even clogs our halls of jurisprudence. Believe it or not, there is an agenda from our civil authorities to remove any vestige of Christian religious themes and tones which once held dominance in our government on both the state and federal levels. We are witnessing more of that today as the State continues to usurp God's authority over people by winning citizens' allegiance towards itself through its many social programs and economic promises of stability (socialism). The CP only seeks to restore the lost foundations of what made our republic a success in the first place.

It should not bother you that members of the CP honor God during their proceedings, for many of the signers of our Constitution did the same thing during their convention. There were moments of prayer and sermons were even written and recited to guide lawmakers in doing their duty towards God. I've been to many Constitution Party events, and none of them entailed marginalizing non-believers just because they don't believe in God. I think Dr. Chuck Baldwin was a prime example of that attitude. However, the CP cannot stop acknowledging God as the Giver and Sustainer of our rights just because people won't feel comfortable with hearing about God during a political gathering. That would go against the very principles which held up our republic. Also, it would make the CP just another LP, which refuses to acknowledge God in and of its proceedings.

Both the GOP and the Democratic Party have forgotten the God Who blessed our nation centuries ago. They have become nothing more than parties of humanism, and yet, where has that gotten our nation during the many years of their successes in elections? They are pretty much identical now, except the Republicans believe in humanism which advocates warfare, while the Democrats believe in humanism which appropriates welfare. Both of their platforms are man-centered messages about how they each believe our country can become a utopia of freedom to all people, minus any distinct features or nomenclatures about God. I guess that stems from a false belief that religion and politics shouldn't mix. That itself is based on the fallacy of neutrality.

If we hope to be successful in any capacity of liberty and limited government, we have to keep people from becoming God themselves. That is why we have a Constitution to restrain men from doing that. Our history is very important in determining what our future will be like. The CP seeks to do just that, and there are many members of the CP which share in the principles of freedom that we all have come to love and revere. Is it no wonder that people such as myself and Dr. Baldwin are enthusiastically on the bandwagon of Congressman Paul's policies and beliefs? We support those things, not in spite of our religion, but because of it. I don't see how a party which honors the true God will fail in preserving the original articles of our republic. However, we must go back to the original intent, and as a wise statesman once said, "A people who do not know from whence they come from cannot determine what they will be with any success" (slightly paraphrased). That is why our country is as confused as ever about it's supposed to be doing towards God, for itself, and to other nations.

[JK/SEA]

Just this week, there was a very active member in our remnant Ron Paul group who was a State delegate, and is a PCO in our county who made a speech at the local TeaParty. He identified himself as a Ron Paul Republican, and stated to the crowd that WE are going to take over the county GOP. Well, at the very next meeting that same week, he was taken aside by a co-leader in our movement to basically..shut up.. about that agenda. OK, now this patriot has left the movement over this. That makes 3 people i know of so far that are less than thrilled at the direction of this movement that have left for principled reasons, and these people were very passionate and active during the campaign. Do we really have to try and sway these NEOCONS? my take is, if you don't already have a clue, then screw you, and don't waste time with people who only vote by being told who to vote for.

[speciallyblend]

Don't expect the party to change itself. As Matt said, it's up to us to do that.

And we HAVE changed the party already. Believe it or not, we've moved the current inhabitants closer to liberty.

More importantly, we are taking on leadership roles. In Minnesota yesterday, we entirely took over 2 of 3 congressional districts' executive committees. We elected liberty people to their executive committees for all but a couple spots.

By the end of this off-year leadership election cycle, liberty leadership will be in place at all levels in our state in a third to a half of the elected positions. So if we still don't like what's going on, we only have each other to blame.

Just saying, if we don't like the current situation, we can get up and do something about it. It doesn't happen overnight. In MN we laid the groundwork over the last two years. If you're not ready to take it on now, are you at least doing the preparation work?


yes i am still a republican,but in my county we elected a ron paul democrat to a county seat. I tried my best to get folks who were republican to come to our meetings,but they want nothing to do with the party. catch 22 really ,i guess it will take a few more yrs of republicans losing to make a difference in my county!

I am working for Liberty now no matter the party. If the gop will not listen in my county and i cannot get new people to join or republicans to show to meetings. then we are at a road block in lake county. I am working with the democratic party in lake county now which is run by libertarian dems and ron paul supporters who agree with us in the democratic party!

I will continue to try to sell the gop to folks but it is not going good. the the neo-con republicans might need another 4-8 yrs of losing before they will listen. there just are not enough good republicans yet. the republican party did a great job at alienating republicans for the last 10yrs. no one in lake county wants anything to do with the gop. note lake county is 20% registered republican and shrinking lower then that. they are so dead in lake county they cannot even get people showing to their own meetings let alone me trying to get folks to show. it is really frustrating. I wish i was making this crap up but i am not. ooo well the gop has to live with what they did. I am new to the party but until we can change the leadership in coorado we are screwed. the sad part is the same cogop leadership was elected so we are at least 4-12 yrs from changing anything in this state. maybe we will have a miracle and have the cogop and national gop expelled by republicans in the next few yrs...

i think we are better off trying to lobby the lp/cp/tp leaders to join our party, then actually registered republicans. we need to get the leaders of the lp/tp/cp to back this or really we are at a loss! I love lake county colorado,but the gop is practically dead here and folks do not want to go to a funeral!!

I know it is different in every county. we need to pick our fights better and let the gop in some counties and states die and in some try to save them and in some work with the democratic party and in some the lp/cp/tp ,but the ultimate goal save the gop or put the dying dog down and unite the real republicans and the tp/lp/cp under the gop or the LIBERTY PARTY!!

I will work at the state level with the CFL to try to save the gop,but i am telling you something must happen soon in the gop or in my eyes it will not be worth saving we have a few yrs to try at least. looking at our leaders now i predict we are at least 4-8 yrs from reclaiming the gop. that is if it is worth a dam in 8yrs!!

we must expell the very leaders that were just elected to the rnc and the cogop until then we are not even close! I can talk until i am blue in the face to my local gop. they do not get it!! i called my precinct and door knocked. we had a total of 10 folks show to my precinct primary we had 3 mccain 3 romney and 3 ron paul and 1 huckabee! sad part in my precinct all the ron paul supporters are dems and indys and lp/cp but they want nothing to do with the gop. so there we are a dead gop!!

LIBERTY HAS NO PARTY and the gop is still clueless,maybe they need a few more yrs of losses, until then my lake county gop would actually try to elect bush again. the lake county gop and the cogop deserves what they get ,nothing!

note on our precinct romney eventually won and ron paul was tied with mccain for second

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

Ah, I get it. This thread is about feeling sorry for ourselves. It's a lot easier to bitch about those who are in power than it is to go about the hard work of changing that leadership.

I posted about how we'd done it in MN, and the only response is "there was one guy who took a Ron Paul delegate aside to say, 'shut up about your beliefs'," and that was enough to prove that we're better off just sitting on the couch or joining the LP where we can also avoid the hard work of actually changing things.

Edit: Okay, Specially chimed in too. :-) </whine>

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

No one in lake county wants anything to do with the gop. note lake county is 20% registered republican and shrinking lower then that. they are so dead in lake county they cannot even get people showing to their own meetings let alone me trying to get folks to show. it is really frustrating. I wish i was making this crap up but i am not. ooo well the gop has to live with what they did. I am new to the party but until we can change the leadership in coorado we are screwed. the sad part is the same cogop leadership was elected so we are at least 4-12 yrs from changing anything in this state. maybe we will have a miracle and have the cogop and national gop expelled by republicans in the next few yrs...

Although we took those two congressional district exec committees yesterday, there was another convention in CD8. CD8 is probably similar to Lake County. They can't elect Republicans, but they also don't try very hard. Instead, the GOP leadership of that CD spends all its time worrying about whether the local party units (counties) are staying in line and doing what they're told.

CD 8's convention was total command-and-control, ran afoul of their own Constitution, and required a $60 registration fee to keep out the riff-raff.

Honestly, if we'd worked harder on organizing CD8 over the past 2 years, we probably could have kicked their butts. But there's only so much energy to go around. (I know full well there are Ron Paul people there who could pitch in, but it was ice fishing season. Now it's home repair season. And the kids have soccer, and so on.)

So you pick your battles. If Lake County isn't going to happen, is your congressional district in better shape?

[Danke]

I posted about how we'd done it in MN...

For all of her huge efforts in making this happen, Marianne gets the Well Done GIF!!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/123donnay/33415_formatted_welldone30f.gif?t=1240163871


:D

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

Oh, bother. The CD coordinators all are responsible for their CDs, so you can send them the champagne. Actually, if you ARE sending champagne, maybe I'll take some whether I deserve it or not. Could come in handy with this swine flu.

Speaking of which, you don't fly to Mexico, do you, Danke?

[Danke]

Speaking of which, you don't fly to Mexico, do you, Danke?

Not often, I have always bid my schedule to avoid Mexico City for many reasons, now especially.

[GunnyFreedom]

Don't expect the party to change itself. As Matt said, it's up to us to do that.

And we HAVE changed the party already. Believe it or not, we've moved the current inhabitants closer to liberty.

More importantly, we are taking on leadership roles. In Minnesota yesterday, we entirely took over 2 of 3 congressional districts' executive committees. We elected liberty people to their executive committees for all but a couple spots.

By the end of this off-year leadership election cycle, liberty leadership will be in place at all levels in our state in a third to a half of the elected positions. So if we still don't like what's going on, we only have each other to blame.

Just saying, if we don't like the current situation, we can get up and do something about it. It doesn't happen overnight. In MN we laid the groundwork over the last two years. If you're not ready to take it on now, are you at least doing the preparation work?

This is my experience. Lay the groundwork and then work the ground. Now all kinds of crops are sprouting up; and even as I'm harvesting, the naysayers are still chanting "it will never work! Don't bother trying! Give up now!"

[JK/SEA]

Ah, I get it. This thread is about feeling sorry for ourselves. It's a lot easier to bitch about those who are in power than it is to go about the hard work of changing that leadership.

I posted about how we'd done it in MN, and the only response is "there was one guy who took a Ron Paul delegate aside to say, 'shut up about your beliefs'," and that was enough to prove that we're better off just sitting on the couch or joining the LP where we can also avoid the hard work of actually changing things.

Edit: Okay, Specially chimed in too. :-) </whine>


You missed the point. Glad you are having success in Minnesota. Maybe you could counsel some of the Ron Paul NEOCON leaders here in Washington State, so first timers in the process don't get tossed out like yesterdays garbage.

try to contain your smarmy attitude.

thanks.

[speciallyblend]

Ah, I get it. This thread is about feeling sorry for ourselves. It's a lot easier to bitch about those who are in power than it is to go about the hard work of changing that leadership.

I posted about how we'd done it in MN, and the only response is "there was one guy who took a Ron Paul delegate aside to say, 'shut up about your beliefs'," and that was enough to prove that we're better off just sitting on the couch or joining the LP where we can also avoid the hard work of actually changing things.

Edit: Okay, Specially chimed in too. :-) </whine>

i feel sorry for the screwed up gop not myself. my life goes on without the screwed up gop. i am not whining .
remember in colorado i do not need the gop. so if you want us whining republicans to leave the gop then keep it up!!

the gop does not pay my mortgage or my cars or control my life or fix my wifes back!

so please do not use the whiney crap.

I am a republican by choice and can easily change my membership. i have warned the gop many times. I would think maybe you can warn the gop yourself instead of calling us whiners. we have already spoken and taken our message to the gop.

instead of calling rpf members whiners why not try and wake up steele and the rnc. I did my job and continue to do my job with or without the gop, bottom line gop doesn't pay my bills they just take my money. I do what i can but i have no loyalty to what i call the scum of politics the gop leadership!!

blame the gop not me. the fact i am still registered republican after the colorado convention and the gop leaders is a miracle in itself.

maybe i need to look at the Lp/Cp/Tp, what my post was saying is we need to focus our energy on geting those leaders andmembers back to the gop then we won't need the neo-cons or sheep that do not show to meetings anyway!!!

the gop doesn't deserve my membership to be honest but i stay a republican but i will never vote for a republican that supports the status quo. It is up to the gop to straighten their act up not me. I have done my job over and over and over and will continue to do it,but the gop has done nothing to earn my vote and electing the same failed leaders is a great way to earn it,not!!

whine to the gop not us rpf members they made the bed not me!!

CFL would be more effective under the LIBERTY PARTY, then the gop just my opinion maybe in the next 4-8 yrs the gop will get a clue if not . then i plan on sending every republican that follows the failed gop packing. you can count my vote on that. that is no whining just A PROMISE TO THE GOP!

i am sorry you do not like what the gop is doing. I tried in my county. My efforst for liberty are best served in the former lp that are now dems in office in my county.

the gop has a choice! it is upto them. if folks in my lake county gop want to ignore reality that is their choice not mine!!!

i am tired of people calling folks whiners for telling the truth about the gop!!!

truth hurts instead of acting like we are whining, why not take your complaints to the gop. i already have. the gop told me they do not need my vote several times even at our own colorado convention hmmmm sounds like a gop problem not mine!!

[anaconda]

i have to say i was lucky i didn't get attacked for talking good about the gop! I just got this crazy look from most folks like is this guy seriously trying to promote the gop??

I'm not clear on why you were talking "good" about the GOP? It seems like your main point is that the GOP is corrupt, outdated, and shooting itself in the foot.

Sounds like positive happenings in the great state of Colorado.

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

Specially, I was closing my own whine tag. I had submitted the reply, then saw yours, so quickly edited to say I saw it. Hadn't even read it yet.

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

You missed the point. Glad you are having success in Minnesota. Maybe you could counsel some of the Ron Paul NEOCON leaders here in Washington State, so first timers in the process don't get tossed out like yesterdays garbage.

try to contain your smarmy attitude.

thanks.

JK/SEA, what smarm? Are we not able to discuss this? The point is, why would we bother counseling the neocons? That's my whole point. Forget them. Take it on ourselves!

[speciallyblend]

Although we took those two congressional district exec committees yesterday, there was another convention in CD8. CD8 is probably similar to Lake County. They can't elect Republicans, but they also don't try very hard. Instead, the GOP leadership of that CD spends all its time worrying about whether the local party units (counties) are staying in line and doing what they're told.

CD 8's convention was total command-and-control, ran afoul of their own Constitution, and required a $60 registration fee to keep out the riff-raff.

Honestly, if we'd worked harder on organizing CD8 over the past 2 years, we probably could have kicked their butts. But there's only so much energy to go around. (I know full well there are Ron Paul people there who could pitch in, but it was ice fishing season. Now it's home repair season. And the kids have soccer, and so on.)

So you pick your battles. If Lake County isn't going to happen, is your congressional district in better shape?

not really ,look in colorado the same failed leadership was relected, so that basically answers it. i am telling you the cogop is so screwed really ,now if we could get the CFL to somehow expel the cogop leadership and elect bonnie(cfl state leader then we might get somewhere.


i find it more productive to help the ron paul democrats in lake county as for our district we are part of the brainwashed district of focus on family(right wing republicans,what a joke) in colo springs. i am not sure the gop leaders are smart enough to evolve.

if i am involved or not we are still 4-8 yrs away from any change in the gop . you cannot expect change from the same old guard republicans .they either must die or leave the party or get voted out. hard to do when the cogop votes in the same failed leadership. no whining here. reality we are 4-8 yrs away. that is if some of this failed leadership wakes up.
if the gop picks gay marriage as an issue in the next elections you can kiss 2 more elections goodbye for the gop.

we still need to remove 95% of the gop leadership before we can even talk about reclaiming the gop!!

and sorry if i am angry i poured my heart and soul into the republican party to have them shit on us!! while trying to deal with my wifes injurys!! sincerely kenny the whiner

if the gop wants to know why we are angry ,they only have themselves to whine at!

[speciallyblend]

Specially, I was closing my own whine tag. I had submitted the reply, then saw yours, so quickly edited to say I saw it. Hadn't even read it yet.

ok sorry ,i am very frustrated with the gop and life in general! we do have some bright spots in colorado but not many and the gop is really dying in my eyes. it is truly a shame so called 4yr degree elected leadership cannot figure out what others can!

[GunnyFreedom]

methinks if a GOP leader is being obstructionist, you go home, gather up a bunch of people, and go vote him out. There are enough of us to make the GOP an empty structure to fiddle at our will. That's why we get frustrated at the apathy. We know that if ALL of us had started doing this 18 months ago there wouldn't be any neocons left.

Spec - I know also that if it weren't for that same apathy you would not have been a drop of Paul in a sea of neo.

[speciallyblend]

I'm not clear on why you were talking "good" about the GOP? It seems like your main point is that the GOP is corrupt, outdated, and shooting itself in the foot.

Sounds like positive happenings in the great state of Colorado.

i am still a member of the gop and i was trying to let folks know not all republicans are war mongering non liberty republicans!I have faith in Ron Paul and what we could do ,but if the lp/cp/tp sit on the sidelines .then it might take longer to reclaim the gop. I hope 3rd parties do well,but i joined the gop because i think ron paul was right on taking back the gop. i will support 3rd parties over any gop/neo-con republican anyday for sure;)I can promise you one thing the only folks that will see a dime from my pockets are the CFL/LP/CP/TP and i can promise the gop will not a see a dime from me until they shape up!!
I can support the 3rd parties and promote liberty in the gop at the sametime:)

if the gop doesn't wake up soon in colorado .there will be no cogop in 2012! i understand what ron paul was saying,but in the end if the gop doesn't wake up. then i guess we take the ron paul republicans and start trying to make a new LIBERTY PARTY IN COLORADO.remind folks Colorado was the birthplace of the LP and it can be the death of the gop and the creation of a NEW 2nd Party if the gop doesn't straighten up!I will try to wake up the gop but in 2010 or 2012 we can always form a new political coalition.

As much as i believe in ron paul. i have lil faith in the gop or should i say none!! so in the end i really think a new political coalition might be more viable then the gop in Colorado!!!I think we should use the CFL to build a new coalition for a new party and new platform for colorado:) in 2010 or 2012 if the cogop doesn't pay attention.we should also let the cogop know exactly what we are planning from day one. put them on notice for sure!!!
i am not saying now but let them know this is the end game!!eventually if they do not shape up!!

we really need to lobby the cp/lp/tp to comeback to the gop if not gonna be a long long road, maybe not even in my lifetime!!

we need to have a plan so if our plan fails in the gop, then we can take the 1/3 or more of liberty republicans and put the gop down. let the gop know it is us or them;)

i think we hold all the cards for the gop to live or die really. we just have to play the hand and play hardball, but we do need the cp/lp and the tp!

[speciallyblend]

methinks if a GOP leader is being obstructionist, you go home, gather up a bunch of people, and go vote him out. There are enough of us to make the GOP an empty structure to fiddle at our will. That's why we get frustrated at the apathy. We know that if ALL of us had started doing this 18 months ago there wouldn't be any neocons left.

Spec - I know also that if it weren't for that same apathy you would not have been a drop of Paul in a sea of neo.

well if i was rich i could pay folks to attend the gop meeting?? is that legal??

[GunnyFreedom]

well if i was rich i could pay folks to attend the gop meeting?? is that legal??

LOL I dunno, but I suspect that that's usually how it's done. ;-)

[speciallyblend]

LOL I dunno, but I suspect that that's usually how it's done. ;-)

haha thanks for the laugh, yeah i guess your right. wish i had money:)

i am trying still but very frustrating!!

the one thing the gop leadership proves is a 4yr degree mean nothing!!


i wish i could fire the gop!!

well back to tending to my wife!! after the last 2 yrs i have alot of anger toward the gop can you tell??

[slacker921]

If people just realized the incredibly tiny number of people who "run" the GOP at their local level they might actually get involved. ..

For instance, my county convention had less than 100 people. I would guesstimate 30 of them want to kick the neocons to the curb. That means to get a majority and kick out the neocons would only take an additional 41 people. The odds are even better at the District conventions where the apathy really shows up (where it's not unusual to see a county represented by only 3 or 4 people).. or the NC state convention where there were at least 10 counties who didn't send anyone to represent them.

[JK/SEA]

JK/SEA, what smarm? Are we not able to discuss this? The point is, why would we bother counseling the neocons? That's my whole point. Forget them. Take it on ourselves!

Therein lies the problem. What ONCE was Ron Paul republican leadership in my county, with few exceptions, are now calling on the rank and file to try and turn hearts and minds of the NEOCONS in majority, and are now telling members to shut up so we can make in roads, BECAUSE ...theeeyyy think WE are hostile and abrasive, meaning WE as RP Republicans must shut up and accept the new strategy. Frankly, i'm rather tired of kissing NEOCON ass, and still have scars from the State convention, of which i attended at my expense.

As i said, i'm glad we are having pockets of success, but time is running out in my opinion, but i would encourage those who are having success to keep at it. Here in Washington State, especially my county, i am more than dis-appointed.

On a side note. We have a ''leader'' who has a blog who just rips away on the gay issue. I'm not gay, but his rantings embarrass me, and i told him that i will not and cannot associate with him any longer, and this includes going to meetings where he will be speaking.

[speciallyblend]

Therein lies the problem. What ONCE was Ron Paul republican leadership in my county, with few exceptions, are now calling on the rank and file to try and turn hearts and minds of the NEOCONS in majority, and are now telling members to shut up so we can make in roads, BECAUSE ...theeeyyy think WE are hostile and abrasive, meaning WE as RP Republicans must shut up and accept the new strategy. Frankly, i'm rather tired of kissing NEOCON ass, and still have scars from the State convention, of which i attended at my expense.

As i said, i'm glad we are having pockets of success, but time is running out in my opinion, but i would encourage those who are having success to keep at it. Here in Washington State, especially my county, i am more than dis-appointed.

On a side note. We have a ''leader'' who has a blog who just rips away on the gay issue. I'm not gay, but his rantings embarrass me, and i told him that i will not and cannot associate with him any longer, and this includes going to meetings where he will be speaking.

i kinda feel the sameway here in colorado on similar issues:( , especially the colorado convention at my expense. I should send the dam cogop an itemized bill of my expenses and tell them to pay me back for wasting my time and money. When i think of the co convention all i can think of is the gop corrupting the whole process.

Colorado Convention had a huge Ron Paul turnout(hint everyone of them republicans):), the busiest table was our ron paul revolution table,yet we were silenced by not allowing our colorado life long republican to speak for our Presidential Candidate Ron Paul. They also refused on all terms to allow Ron Paul to speak. I guess they were scared shitless for another nevada revolt in Colorado!! so many bad things happened not to mention blacklists passed around at cd meetings and the convention itself. the list goes on!!!

[Athan]

Most of the leadership still can't understand shit though. It looks like they will shrink further especially after the 2010 midterm election results.
There needs to be a complete mutiny of the neo-cons and their placeholders before they will become electable again. They are that disgusting.

[surf]

How do you resolve the moral dilemma you've put yourself into? You claim to be a libertarian, yet you align yourself politically with statists! :eek:

it's one helluva a struggle, believe me:( i wrote in Ron Paul last year and will probably write myself in next congressional election if my god damn rep doesn't cosponsor HR 1207.

like i said, it's tough being a libertarian in Wa State. We won "major party" status in 2000 - hell, i got over 150,000 votes to help us gain this. then, for some dumb-ass reason, a group put forward an initiative to force general elections to only have two names on the ballot, and all the gains that we libertarians had made were flushed.

The only reason i associate myself with these war-monger anti-civil-liberty moral-high-ground jackasses is because of Ron Paul. and i am continuing to do so in hope that he will either run again or that we may be able to change some attitudes.

[anaconda]

we need to have a plan so if our plan fails in the gop, then we can take the 1/3 or more of liberty republicans and put the gop down. let the gop know it is us or them

I think you are right on the money, here. I think many folks vastly underestimate the potential for a the eruption of a very powerful third party in the U.S. I think there are a few simple prerequisites. The liberty minded must distinguish themselves from the old GOP, yet continue to sell their platform as that which most conservatives always wanted anyway. We must absolutely not, for any reason (however tempting) vote for an establishment backed Republican. We must kill the Republican party as we know if by depriving it of that crucial 10 or 15 per cent that they need from us to win a general election. Then we can begin to pick up many more Republican voters who will cease to vote party line any longer because their candidate "cannot win." We will begin to pick up droves of disillusioned Democrats, of which their will be lots in about 24 months from now. We may not be able to defeat the Dems until 2016, but that would still be a great accomplishment.