Why for now AUDIT THE FED is superior to END THE FED

[MsDoodahs]

For the moment, the hardest push we need to make is NOT for "end the fed" but is for AUDIT THE FED.

Audit will lead to end - and Audit is vastly more palatable and politically expedient for the congresscritters *at the moment.*

You ever hear the phrase "strike while the iron is hot?"

The iron for transparency in gov't is hot RIGHT NOW. This is a direct result of the bailouts and Bernanke's refusal - during testimony before the banking committee - to provide the information to Congress.

Congress does not like being told NO - even by the FedRes Chair.

Mixing the message of "end the fed" with the currently more politically expedient "AUDIT THE FED" is a mistake.

Flyers and protests outside critters local offices should - for now - focus solely on Ron's H.R. 1207 to AUDIT THE FED.

Mixing END with AUDIT will be the death of AUDIT.

If you are serious about ending, you will not mix the two messages. You will push for AUDIT first, and then push for END after AUDIT is in place.

[Bern]

I agree 100%.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Totally agree. tones

[slacker921]

YES. And I'll also add that when I was walking around the tea party I overheard people talking about the "End the Fed" signs... they thought the signs meant "End the Federal Government". Seriously. "End the Fed" is good for people who already know about the Federal Reserve and why it should be radically changed or done away with... it's not good for the average person on the street.

"Audit the Federal Reserve" should be the message.

[MsDoodahs]

YES. And I'll also add that when I was walking around the tea party I overheard people talking about the "End the Fed" signs... they thought the signs meant "End the Federal Government". Seriously. "End the Fed" is good for people who already know about the Federal Reserve and why it should be radically changed or done away with... it's not good for the average person on the street.

"Audit the Federal Reserve" should be the message.

This is true.

[Original_Intent]

Agree

[Deborah K]

For the moment, the hardest push we need to make is NOT for "end the fed" but is for AUDIT THE FED.

Audit will lead to end - and Audit is vastly more palatable and politically expedient for the congresscritters *at the moment.*

You ever hear the phrase "strike while the iron is hot?"

The iron for transparency in gov't is hot RIGHT NOW. This is a direct result of the bailouts and Bernanke's refusal - during testimony before the banking committee - to provide the information to Congress.

Congress does not like being told NO - even by the FedRes Chair.

Mixing the message of "end the fed" with the currently more politically expedient "AUDIT THE FED" is a mistake.

Flyers and protests outside critters local offices should - for now - focus solely on Ron's H.R. 1207 to AUDIT THE FED.

Mixing END with AUDIT will be the death of AUDIT.

If you are serious about ending, you will not mix the two messages. You will push for AUDIT first, and then push for END after AUDIT is in place.


Actually, if you think about it stategically, pushing for the end of the Fed DOES make auditing it more palatable to the critters, and could subconsciously push them to vote for what they might consider the less damaging of the two agendas being thrust upon them by the people.

[LibertyEagle]

Deb,

Ron has entered an End the FED bill almost every year. Each time they have gone nowhere.

We have a real chance with this Audit the FED legislation. A real chance. But, if we mix the two, I'm concerned we'll come up with zero, AGAIN.

Maybe we should get one passed, before we move on to the next one. Ending the FED scares the shit out of a lot of people.

C4L is telling us to focus on the Audit the Federal Reserve legislation. I hope we will listen to them.

[angelatc]

Also, "End The Fed" is misconstrued as meaning "No Federal Government!"

[rpfan2008]

Actually, if you think about it stategically, pushing for the end of the Fed DOES make auditing it more palatable to the critters, and could subconsciously push them to vote for what they might consider the less damaging of the two agendas being thrust upon them by the people.

I feel you're making an assumption that the FR will act submissively. They will never agree for any audit unless there is a mass movement. And they will use their propaganda tools to scare off people from End the Fed groups, they might try to paint them as radicals. And you know that they will do.

Only way to build a public opinion is to keep it subtle and reasonable (to the masses). People might say ...what will happen when there is no Fed?? :eek:
But it's difficult to give a reasonable excuse to why it should not be audited. Auditing sounds very reasonable. But media may still come out with funny excuses.

[FreedomRings]

For the moment, the hardest push we need to make is NOT for "end the fed" but is for AUDIT THE FED.

+1207

The FED will end when the dollar collapses, or once there is a massive shift in public sentiment against it. We're not there yet, but the climate is perfectly ripe for an AUDIT.

AUDIT THE FED!

[rpfan2008]

+1207

The FED will end when the dollar collapses, or once there is a massive shift in public sentiment against it. We're not there yet, but the climate is perfectly ripe for an AUDIT.

AUDIT THE FED!


Right. And don't forget Obama's transparency [sic].

[paulitics]

Audit the Fed sounds so reasonable, it is suspicious for someone to say, "No, I'm not for transparency". There is no excuse.

[Lucille]

TARP is the biggest scandal in the history of the Republic! We need HR 1207 now more than ever.

Of course, they don't want us to know we are being robbed blind by our own govt. and they along with the press are playing diversionary tactics w/ waterboarding (which I would have no problem w/ if it were CONgress, Paulson, Bernanke, Geither, Summers, etc.).

Again: Government Lawlessness (http://market-ticker.org/archives/984-Again-Government-Lawlessness.html)

[james1844]

Ditto.

[MsDoodahs]

Audit the Fed sounds so reasonable, it is suspicious for someone to say, "No, I'm not for transparency". There is no excuse.

heh heh heh.

Reckon who among them is willing to stand up and say "oh NO, the American people and their elected representatives in Congress have NO RIGHT to know who Bernanke gave their tax money to."

[Deborah K]

Deb,

Ron has entered an End the FED bill almost every year. Each time they have gone nowhere.

We have a real chance with this Audit the FED legislation. A real chance. But, if we mix the two, I'm concerned we'll come up with zero, AGAIN.

Maybe we should get one passed, before we move on to the next one. Ending the FED scares the shit out of a lot of people.

C4L is telling us to focus on the Audit the Federal Reserve legislation. I hope we will listen to them.


I understand what you're saying but it's going to be hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. The End the Fed movement is gaining ground now. Maybe the tactic should be to include the End the Fed movement into the mix by posing auditing as their only real choice. Either audit it or end it altogether. In other words:

"Look Congress, the people know what's up now. We've risen up. There are those of us who want the Federal Reserve abolished and there are those of us who want it audited. These movements are growing in leaps and bounds. The Fed is going to be held accountable either way. We suggest you make a decision."

The reason Dr. Paul's bills haven't gotten any momentum in the past was because no one was ready to accept the truth. His message was ahead of its time. Now they are ready and the gov't doesn't have a choice but to face this. And besides, what did Ron Paul name his new book?

[LibertyEagle]

Most people don't even know what END THE FED means. When they hear that, they think you're talking about Ending the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT; not the Federal Reserve.


And besides, what did Ron Paul name his new book?
Deb, they didn't think EITHER bill would go anywhere. They're shocked that the Audit the FED bill has picked up so much steam.

C4L is telling us to focus on the Audit the Federal Reserve legislation. I hope we will listen to them.

[Bern]

The End the Fed movement is gaining ground now.

The Audit the Fed movement is gaining ground.

The End the Fed movement only exists within the narrow confines of the enlightened.

[Deborah K]

Most people don't even know what END THE FED means. When they hear that, they think you're talking about Ending the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT; not the Federal Reserve.

That hasn't been my experience. There were End the Fed signs at the Tea Party I attended, and I saw plenty of End the Fed signs in the news. They're even talking about it over at the Glenn Beck forums.

Look, I don't have a pony in this race. I push for both things. I just think it's a little too late to expect the End the Fed movement to just stop what they're doing. I think my suggestion is more viable at this stage.

[MsDoodahs]

I understand what you're saying but it's going to be hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. The End the Fed movement is gaining ground now. Maybe the tactic should be to include the End the Fed movement into the mix by posing auditing as their only real choice. Either audit it or end it altogether. In other words:

"Look Congress, the people know what's up now. We've risen up. There are those of us who want the Federal Reserve abolished and there are those of us who want it audited. These movements are growing in leaps and bounds. The Fed is going to be held accountable either way. We suggest you make a decision."

The reason Dr. Paul's bills haven't gotten any momentum in the past was because no one was ready to accept the truth. His message was ahead of its time. Now they are ready and the gov't doesn't have a choice but to face this. And besides, what did Ron Paul name his new book?

I understand what you are saying, I think. You're saying that because of the End the Fed push that most assuredly has been growing, that has made the Audit the Fed position that much stronger. Is that right?

I do agree with that - but I still maintain that FOR THE NEXT WEEK OR SO, we are best served by pressing as hard as possible for Audit the Federal Reserve because of the short window of opportunity that we are now presented with. It is my understanding that even Dr. Paul has been quite surprised by the positive reception H.R. 1207 is receiving on the hill, and if we can help push 1207 to the floor, and get a vote....well, like paulitics noted....in the current environment, it would be political suicide to vote against transparency. :D

Once the Audit the Federal Reserve push is over, we can refocus our attention on End the Federal Reserve.

:)

[Deborah K]

C4L is telling us to focus on the Audit the Federal Reserve legislation. I hope we will listen to them.

This truly bothers me.

[LibertyEagle]

This truly bothers me.

Why? It's only for the time-being.

[Deborah K]

I understand what you are saying, I think. You're saying that because of the End the Fed push that most assuredly has been growing, that has made the Audit the Fed position that much stronger. Is that right?

I do agree with that - but I still maintain that FOR THE NEXT WEEK OR SO, we are best served by pressing as hard as possible for Audit the Federal Reserve because of the short window of opportunity that we are now presented with. It is my understanding that even Dr. Paul has been quite surprised by the positive reception H.R. 1207 is receiving on the hill, and if we can help push 1207 to the floor, and get a vote....well, like paulitics noted....in the current environment, it would be political suicide to vote against transparency. :D

Once the Audit the Federal Reserve push is over, we can refocus our attention on End the Federal Reserve.

:)


Yes, this is what I am saying and yes, I agree with you on pushing for the legislation first. But I don't agree with undermining or abandoning the End the Fed movement, which some folks might think is what C4L is proposing. End the Fed are Ron Paul supporters too.

If the End the Fed movement is brought up by any one in Congress, it can be used as a way to say, "Hey, which would you prefer, to end it or audit it? Because the people could go either way."

[MsDoodahs]

Wait - a request from Dr. Paul to put our focus where he thinks it will be most useful for our goal bothers you?

:confused:

[brandon]

END THE FED

End The Federal Government also.

[MsDoodahs]

Yes, this is what I am saying and yes, I agree with you on pushing for the legislation first. But I don't agree with undermining or abandoning the End the Fed movement, which some folks might think is what C4L is proposing. End the Fed are Ron Paul supporters too.

If the End the Fed movement is brought up by any one in Congress, it can be used as a way to say, "Hey, which would you prefer, to end it or audit it? Because the people could go either way."

That certainly wasn't my understanding at all!

The End the Fed stuff HAS gotten a lot of attention and HAS gotten a lot of people thinking.

My understanding is that the Audit the Fed bill has an easier row to hoe on the hill, due to the current environment, and that is what we are asked to focus on TEMPORARILY!

Get that done, then right back to End the Fed. It isn't a call to abandon or in any way undermine the End the Fed movement! Not AT ALL!

[Deborah K]

Wait - a request from Dr. Paul to put our focus where he thinks it will be most useful for our goal bothers you?

:confused:

No, I have a problem with the appearance of abandoning a group within our movement that has worked so hard to bring attention to this issue.

[Deborah K]

That certainly wasn't my understanding at all!

The End the Fed stuff HAS gotten a lot of attention and HAS gotten a lot of people thinking.

My understanding is that the Audit the Fed bill has an easier row to hoe on the hill, due to the current environment, and that is what we are asked to focus on TEMPORARILY!

Get that done, then right back to End the Fed. It isn't a call to abandon or in any way undermine the End the Fed movement! Not AT ALL!


Yep, agreed. I don't think it's on purpose but think about the End the Fed people. How do you think they are going to feel about this decision?

[He Who Pawns]

5 stars! I agree doodahs.

[Deborah K]

Okay, I missed the part about " for the moment". If this is just a temporary thing, I guess I'm okay with it. But if I misunderstood this, I can almost guarantee others will too.

[heavenlyboy34]

For the moment, the hardest push we need to make is NOT for "end the fed" but is for AUDIT THE FED.

Audit will lead to end - and Audit is vastly more palatable and politically expedient for the congresscritters *at the moment.*

You ever hear the phrase "strike while the iron is hot?"

The iron for transparency in gov't is hot RIGHT NOW. This is a direct result of the bailouts and Bernanke's refusal - during testimony before the banking committee - to provide the information to Congress.

Congress does not like being told NO - even by the FedRes Chair.

Mixing the message of "end the fed" with the currently more politically expedient "AUDIT THE FED" is a mistake.

Flyers and protests outside critters local offices should - for now - focus solely on Ron's H.R. 1207 to AUDIT THE FED.

Mixing END with AUDIT will be the death of AUDIT.

If you are serious about ending, you will not mix the two messages. You will push for AUDIT first, and then push for END after AUDIT is in place.

Couldn't this be construed by "observers" as watering down the message? This is risky, IMHO. I see you want to be perceived more warmly by the general population, but this can be a slippery slope. :eek: I've seen it happen before-intelligent folks water down their ideas to make them more appealing to the masses, and suddenly the message is either hijacked or ignored. :( All I can say is PROCEED WITH CAUTION!

[MsDoodahs]

Yep, agreed. I don't think it's on purpose but think about the End the Fed people. How do you think they are going to feel about this decision?

I would hope that they would see the great opportunity here to move End the Fed closer to reality through getting Audit the Fed passed ASAP, and so push for 1207 for the next few days.

Do you think they will see Audit the Fed not as a stepping stone to ending the fed but rather as a threat to the goal and if so, why?

[rpfan2008]

Couldn't this be construed by "observers" as watering down the message? This is risky, IMHO. I see you want to be perceived more warmly by the general population, but this can be a slippery slope. :eek: I've seen it happen before-intelligent folks water down their ideas to make them more appealing to the masses, and suddenly the message is either hijacked or ignored. :( All I can say is PROCEED WITH CAUTION!


Good Point.

After what happened to the Tea Parties I think this time people should me more cautious. If they can't kill it they will hijack.

This should be promoted from the beginning as a C4L/ Ron Paul effort. Otherwise they might inject their operatives in.

[MsDoodahs]

I see you want to be perceived more warmly by the general population, but this can be a slippery slope. :eek: I've seen it happen before-intelligent folks water down their ideas to make them more appealing to the masses, and suddenly the message is either hijacked or ignored. :( All I can say is PROCEED WITH CAUTION!

lol, you certainly don't know ME if you think I'M personally concerned about a warm perception by the general population, HB. :D

Auditing the Fed is in no way watering down the ideas.

It's a tool - a flashlight, if you will - a way to shine light on cockroaches.

One caution that I will add is this: once the general population realizes that we HAVE a cockroach infestation, we damn well better have a LOT of POWERFUL education tools at the ready so we can offer up the alternatives that this general population can understand.

Otherwise, they might be convinced to reach for insecticide in the form of replacing Bernanke.

And changing figureheads is worthless.

The beauty of "audit the federal reserve" is that the general population can grasp that transparency is a GOOD thing.

How would everything work if we did not have a Federal Reserve? That is another animal for the gen pop to get their brains wrapped around ... and one we best get ready to slay right quick like.

[Deborah K]

I would hope that they would see the great opportunity here to move End the Fed closer to reality through getting Audit the Fed passed ASAP, and so push for 1207 for the next few days.

Do you think they will see Audit the Fed not as a stepping stone to ending the fed but rather as a threat to the goal and if so, why?

They might see it that way as long as the push for 1207 and the temporary stall of End the Fed doesn't make them feel undermined or abandoned. I doubt they are going to cancel any of their demonstrations though. Unless Dr. Paul reaches out to them and askes them to hang on for a bit.

I really can't speak for them. But I know Gary Franchi and his org. Restore the Republic is heavily promoting End the Fed. You may know that he was one of our MCs at the RevMarch. I'm just trying to consider their (End the Fed) hard work and dedication to this issue, that's all.

[Deborah K]

How would everything work if we did not have a Federal Reserve? That is another animal for the gen pop to get their brains wrapped around ... and one we best get ready to slay right quick like.

I'll bet Dr. Paul's new book will be the only thing we need. ;)

[LibertyEagle]

That's fine, just don't have a sign that incorrectly says... END THE FED, HR1207. Because HR1207 IS NOT about ending the fed, but auditing it.

[MsDoodahs]

They might see it that way as long as the push for 1207 and the temporary stall of End the Fed doesn't make them feel undermined or abandoned. I doubt they are going to cancel any of their demonstrations though. Unless Dr. Paul reaches out to them and askes them to hang on for a bit.

I really can't speak for them. But I know Gary Franchi and his org. Restore the Republic is heavily promoting End the Fed. You may know that he was one of our MCs at the RevMarch. I'm just trying to consider their (End the Fed) hard work and dedication to this issue, that's all.

I wouldn't expect anyone who has a planned rally to change that - those things take blood sweat and tears to pull off!

I am not familiar with the End the Fed folks - but after my fun time hollering at my critter last week, once the Audit the Fed push is over, I may just need to join up with them. :D

[MsDoodahs]

I'll bet Dr. Paul's new book will be the only thing we need. ;)

Hmmmm....

Anyone know if there are discounts for large buys?

:D

[TruckinMike]

Originally Posted by MsDoodahs View Post
...The End the Fed stuff HAS gotten a lot of attention and HAS gotten a lot of people thinking.

My understanding is that the Audit the Fed bill has an easier row to hoe on the hill, due to the current environment, and that is what we are asked to focus on TEMPORARILY!

MsDoodahs is correct... however Deborah K has a very valid point


Actually, if you think about it stategically, pushing for the end of the Fed DOES make auditing it more palatable to the critters, and could subconsciously push them to vote for what they might consider the less damaging of the two agendas being thrust upon them by the people.

Anchoring has been used to sell everything from laundry soap to wars. Set your anchor upstream, and drift downstream until the line is taught. There is where the fish are.

Maybe a splash of End the Fed signs in a Sea of Audit the fed signs; and sold to the uninformed with MsDoodahs thoughts in mind. -- Problem solved

Setting the Anchor - End the Fed
Baiting the Hook - Audit the Fed
Reeling them In - closing the sale

http://www.illustrationsof.com/images/clipart/xsmall2/1536_fisherman_in_a_boat_surrounded_by_fish.jpg

Happy to help...:D

TMike

[Deborah K]

That's fine, just don't have a sign that incorrectly says... END THE FED, HR1207. Because HR1207 IS NOT about ending the fed, but auditing it.

Here's the web site. http://www.endthefed.us/?awt_l=E2baN&awt_m=1a7ci03EbLvGGC

They are HEAVILY promoting 1207. I personally don't think confusion on this issue is rampant.

[MsDoodahs]

MsDoodahs is correct... however Deborah K has a very valid point



Anchoring has been used to sell everything from laundry soap to wars. Set your anchor upstream, and drift downstream until the line is taught. There is where the fish are.

Maybe a splash of End the Fed signs in a Sea of Audit the fed signs; and sold to the uninformed with MsDoodahs thoughts in mind. -- Problem solved

Setting the Anchor - End the Fed
Baiting the Hook - Audit the Fed
Reeling them In - closing the sale

http://www.illustrationsof.com/images/clipart/xsmall2/1536_fisherman_in_a_boat_surrounded_by_fish.jpg

Happy to help...:D

TMike


MAN that is sooooo good!

LOVE IT!

Thanks, Mike!

[LibertyEagle]

Here's the web site. http://www.endthefed.us/?awt_l=E2baN&awt_m=1a7ci03EbLvGGC

They are HEAVILY promoting 1207. I personally don't think confusion on this issue is rampant.

Ok. Good. I've just seen such things on this website.

[Deborah K]

Way to pull it all together Mike! Thanks!