Are Republicans Turning into Libertarians?

[Matt Collins]

Nate Silver takes a look (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/are-republicans-going-galt.html) at where the GOP may be leaning these days:


http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/are-republicans-going-galt.html

[asimplegirl]

They like to pretend they are as far as I can tell, but are misinformed as to what libertarian means.... like a friend who is neocon the other day said, "Libertarian is just liberal"...they can think it is one way or another.

[Volitzer]

Only the smart ones.

The rest are too linked to the NWO and the Bilderbergers.

[LATruth]

Libertarians are true republicans/paleoconservatives. Maybe more are returning to their roots?

[Minarchy4Sale]

'republicans' by and large have always been libertarian in thought when it comes to welfare spending for the poor. Not so much so when it comes to social issues or welfare for the elites...

[heavenlyboy34]

By their very nature the RP cannot be libertarian, for they are in favor of the State (as long as it favors THEM). Even the LP is rather oxymoronic that way. :( Of course they "borrow" libertarian-esque talking points to gain moral high ground, but that is irrelevant because they rarely put this into action.

[asimplegirl]

By their very nature the RP cannot be libertarian, for they are in favor of the State (as long as it favors THEM). Even the LP is rather oxymoronic that way. :( Of course they "borrow" libertarian-esque talking points to gain moral high ground, but that is irrelevant because they rarely put this into action.

So, you agree that they like to pretend to be?

[LATruth]

By their very nature the RP cannot be libertarian, for they are in favor of the State (as long as it favors THEM). Even the LP is rather oxymoronic that way. :( Of course they "borrow" libertarian-esque talking points to gain moral high ground, but that is irrelevant because they rarely put this into action.

Republicans are in favor of a smaller state, how small remains to be seen. I don't mind minimal government, mainly for foreign policy/relations. The local issues should be handled by the individual state as originally intended by our founding fathers.

[LATruth]

So, you agree that they like to pretend to be?

Right now they are pretending, yes. It seems fashionable to be libertarian, as it boosts numbers and ratings in polls.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I hope we get more converts! tones

[acptulsa]

The Republican Party has a very long history of candidates who wrap themselves in the American flag so you can't see the graft bulging in their pockets. If you think they have any more respect for the Gadsden Flag than Old Glory, you're nuts.

[angelatc]

Right now they are pretending, yes. It seems fashionable to be libertarian, as it boosts numbers and ratings in polls.

Bring up drug policy and scaling back the police state and see how libertarian these new converts really are.

Never the less, if only 10% of them actually get their blinders off, the libertarian movement will grow bigger than it's ever been before.

THe problem is that Libertarians are purists. It seems that if they can't run on a platform that openly involves dismantling the public schools, closing the libraries and legalizing heroin then they won't run.

[zach]

Too bad we couldn't have an Individualist party..

but then we'd all be Collectivist. :p

[NMCB3]

The vast majority of republicans are not libertarians. They are enemies of individual liberty as are the vast majority of democrats. :)

[ChaosControl]

Well since they're too stupid to market their current views in a manner that could work for them, they'll have to become libertarian to survive.

If the GOP was smart they'd target minority groups on social issues since those groups tend to be more socially conservative. They could gain the majority of both black and hispanic voters, which would put them back on top again.

But they seemingly want to stick to their current demographic that is ever shrinking so they're going to have to do something else to pick up numbers, libertarianism would gain a lot of people who vote democrat, mistakenly, on social issues.

[FindLiberty]

By their very nature the RP cannot be libertarian, for they are in favor of the State (as long as it favors THEM). Even the LP is rather oxymoronic that way. :( Of course they "borrow" libertarian-esque talking points to gain moral high ground, but that is irrelevant because they rarely put this into action.

Yes. True converts are so few and far between that my answer to the OP has to be NO (in most cases). The rest are drawn to the coercive power of the state and don't have any grasp of the value of Liberty and the power of free choice. Most will fail the "drug and library" tests mentioned in the other posts above.

Pure Libertarians are not electable at this time cause the majority of the voters have not given up on their delusional faith in endless "free lunches at someone elses expense" and their unwavering faith in government to accomplish that.

If it can get through the noise, the hard-core Libertarian message reveals the root causes behind the mess we are in. That's a huge leap for any statist.

[heavenlyboy34]

Republicans are in favor of a smaller state, how small remains to be seen. I don't mind minimal government, mainly for foreign policy/relations. The local issues should be handled by the individual state as originally intended by our founding fathers.

This is still at odds with the fundamentals of libertariansim (especially the non-aggression axiom). The State, by its nature, uses aggressive force against individuals. :p:(

Historically, Republicans have CLAIMED to favor a "smaller" State, but their actions show otherwise. :p:mad: (this has been illustrated by many scholars and philosophers, including RP :))

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes. True converts are so few and far between that my answer to the OP has to be NO (in most cases). The rest are drawn to the coercive power of the state and don't have any grasp of the value of Liberty and the power of free choice. Most will fail the "drug and library" tests mentioned in the other posts above.

Pure Libertarians are not electable at this time cause the majority of the voters have not given up on their delusional faith in endless "free lunches at someone elses expense" and their unwavering faith in government to accomplish that.

If it can get through the noise, the hard-core Libertarian message reveals the root causes behind the mess we are in. That's a huge leap for any statist.

QFT! :D I'm glad you agree.:cool:

[heavenlyboy34]

Bring up drug policy and scaling back the police state and see how libertarian these new converts really are.

Never the less, if only 10% of them actually get their blinders off, the libertarian movement will grow bigger than it's ever been before.

THe problem is that Libertarians are purists. It seems that if they can't run on a platform that openly involves dismantling the public schools, closing the libraries and legalizing heroin then they won't run.

It can theoretically be done, but first the majority of voters must change their worldview and abandon Statism. Not likely to happen soon.:(:p

[acptulsa]

It can theoretically be done, but first the majority of voters must change their worldview and abandon Statism. Not likely to happen soon.:(:p

Being bent over and raped hard has a way of awakening anyone and anything. Our job is to ensure that even in their sleepy shock they identify the correct culprit. If we can do that, we have it made.

[angelatc]

It can theoretically be done, but first the majority of voters must change their worldview and abandon Statism. Not likely to happen soon.:(:p

You know I love you, but you're making my point. Most Republicans prefer some degree of statism. THey like the fire department, public schools, and traffic signals. Personally I do to.

For me the problem is limiting how big government can grow. Government, like any other entity, is either growing or dying. The instinct is to therefore grow.

And we're saddled with 2 generations of people that depend on government. The first generaion - mine - was complacent. We knew we could survive if we had to, but we didn't want to work that hard. The new generation - yours - is absolutely convinced that people are too stupid to take care of themselves, hence the cries for more and more regulations designed to protect that demographic. Too much credit card debt? Let's cap interest rates, bvecause it's much simpler than actually putting on out big boy pants and taking control of our own lives.

[angelatc]

Being bent over and raped hard has a way of awakening anyone and anything. Our job is to ensure that even in their sleepy shock they identify the correct culprit. If we can do that, we have it made.

You would think, but even as the government is flipping us over to have a go at the other side, people are insisting that Bush bad - Obama good . It's only rape if you don't consent.

[Matt Collins]

Too bad we couldn't have an Individualist party..

but then we'd all be Collectivist. :pI work in the rock concert industry and I see people who want to be like everyone else; unique :rolleyes::cool:

[Working Poor]

Libertarians are true republicans/paleoconservatives. Maybe more are returning to their roots?

I doubt it...

[LATruth]

I doubt it...

Me too. One can dream.

[nickcoons]

THe problem is that Libertarians are purists. It seems that if they can't run on a platform that openly involves dismantling the public schools, closing the libraries and legalizing heroin then they won't run.

That's not really true. Many Libertarians, as you mentioned, are purists (including myself). But most Libertarian candidates (again, including myself) don't campaign on that message. It's not because they believe in any amount of Statism, but because in any sort of marketing (which is really what campaigning is), you have to go after the lowest hanging fruit.

As a candidate, do you tell people that they should elect you because you think public schools should be closed in favor of private schools, or because you think bailouts for big businesses are bad for the economy and unfair to the taxpayer? Both are based on libertarian principles, but no one has the resources to effectively promote both concepts (or the virtually unlimited number of other things to discuss). So which will be more effective in gaining popularity and votes? That's where a candidate focuses.

Once we've solved the issue of eliminating the income tax, making a congressional position a very part-time job, trimmed the military back so the resources to arbitrarily invade other countries doesn't exist, and we've implemented the basic principles of freedom, then we can talk about privatizing roads :).

[Matt Collins]

Interesting discussion

[Don't Tread on Mike]

lol only in my dreams :D!

[Fr3shjive]

If Republicans are joining the Libertarian party then it sounds like a good thing to me. Most of them are sheep and will go the way their party wants them to think. So if the LP tells them what to think they'll go right along.

Most people are sheep anyways. The democrats say they're going to repeal the Partriot Act only to extend the act, the republicans say they're small govt and then spend our country in to debt.

Most people dont care what the govt is really doing they just need a party to lead them.

[bunklocoempire]

I'm a former Republican turned Libertarian -as far as I can tell. :D

My change due to Republican un-American/un-Christian behavior and attitude, preaching cowardice and fear (torture and pre-emptive anything). And, due to those in government NOT promoting or protecting individual Liberty. Now why wouldn’t those in government promote and protect true individual Liberty? DOH! And so here I am, thanks Dr. Paul.

In my opinion, courage is the mark of the true Libertarian, and I fume (and laugh) at the Hannity and Becks pushing cowardice and fear while claiming Libertarian. They also sell themselves as “Christian valued” while pushing cowardice and fear. Surprise.

Becoming a “true” Libertarian has actually helped my faith, and vice versa, oh my gosh, who woulda thought! I was certainly a casualty of the smoke & mirrors & fears and self inflicted ignorance.

Fear... unless your a flight animal, who needs it?

Bunkloco

[Objectivist]

Well they've painted themselves into a corner and need an out. Seems Washington already has a bunch of spending assholes in control, so to get back to spending like drunken sailors again, they have to put on another charade.

[acptulsa]

The day the G.O.P. fields mostly libertarian candidates will be a great day. And that day will be the culmination of a bunch of dedication and hard work by us. It will be the product of all of us--not just a few of us--hitting those boring, frustrating county and state G.O.P. conventions and voting candidates who are actually willing to represent the people into party offices and getting candidates into races for government offices. And more than a few of us stepping up to the challenges.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I wonder if the LP numbers are growing...I'm going to call and see if the numbers are up. tones

[Matt Collins]

The day the G.O.P. fields mostly libertarian candidates will be a great day. And that day will be the culmination of a bunch of dedication and hard work by us. It will be the product of all of us--not just a few of us--hitting those boring, frustrating county and state G.O.P. conventions and voting candidates who are actually willing to represent the people into party offices and getting candidates into races for government offices. And more than a few of us stepping up to the challenges.Exactly. We are working towards those ends right now! I can tell you that in Nashville we are making great strides.

[acptulsa]

Exactly. We are working towards those ends right now! I can tell you that in Nashville we are making great strides.

And here--well, all I can say is Randy Brogdon FTW!! Cut the strings!

[The_Orlonater]

By their very nature the RP cannot be libertarian, for they are in favor of the State (as long as it favors THEM). Even the LP is rather oxymoronic that way. :( Of course they "borrow" libertarian-esque talking points to gain moral high ground, but that is irrelevant because they rarely put this into action.

Can you at least be sympathetic towards minarchists? It's a gradual goal.

[Liberty Star]

At least some of them seem to be being kicked and pushed in the right direction...economic and moral demoralization is cracking the traditional order of the GOP.