The Next Move

[freedomc0de]

We've seen the media lambaste these current tea parties and set them aside as nothing more than a racist showdown for the sore loser republican party. We've seen on numerous blogs, news stories, and youtube videos the constant bashing between the left and the right where nothing but name calling and arguments fester into the comment sections. And we sigh and get disgusted, but we read on. And as a whole, at least here our stance has been that this isn't about the left or the right any longer. For us it's always been about freedom, accountability, transparency, and honesty.

But at this point in our system, I don't see another way of coming even remotely close to winning this then what I am about to propose, and maybe it's a pipe dream.. If you look back at how far we've come....from the biggest money bomb by any grassroots effort, to the blimp, to the revolution march, to the end the fed protests, and on and on, you will realize we haven't been just sitting on our asses contrary to what some people have recently suggested, we have accomplished some things. We've gained monumental success by huge money bombs, blimps, meetups, the revolution march, protests, and an array of devotion that only could come from the hearts of good, honest people. But with that success comes things we have to look out for. There have been times when not so nice people have come on here and pretended to be Paul supporters and asked for our money, and there will be times when politicians, like those republicans at the tea parties, will tell us everything we want to hear because they know we are about to be in the power position. And if we believe these people, and the MSM they will have sidetracked us, funneled our dissent and effectively controlled the movement.

But this isn't just about us. There are people out there that agree with us for the most part, people that love this country and are against the major things we are against. People are starting to catch on to this false left/right paradigm and because of this I don't see any other logical powerhouse move than a Paul/Kucinich ticket in 2012. The reason we look up to Dr. Paul is the same reason people look up to Kucinich. Honest..Integrity..Truth. We sense it, we see it in their voting records and hear it when they speak. Whether you agree with either fundamental philosophy we all know the future of America if we continue on this dead end path. In the past few months you'd think 700 billion dollars was chump change. We've witnessed the lies that brought on the Iraq War, the Patriot Act, the 4th amendment being rolled on, the 2nd amendment about to be rolled on, the FISA bill accepted by both parties, and of course the bailouts. These are the major issues at hand. Our constitution is being trampled on. The only two people that have stood against this tyranny from the beginning are Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. And I think in 2012, if we banded together not for our individual philosophies, but for our love of this country and what it was founded on then we might have a chance in 2012.

[Vessol]

Excellent post. Well written.

I am a bit of a pessimist. I'd say I'm more realist then anything.

I agree with all your say, up until the last sentence. While I voted for Dr. Paul in both the primaries and the elections, I knew he was not going to get elected from the start. And he will not be elected in 2012. However him running did a very important thing. It drew the attention of a lot of people and brought a lot of people in(especially young) that read his ideas and found that they agreed for the first time with a politician.

I always thought of what would happen in a Ron Paul presidency. In my opinion: not much. If for some odd chance he was elected he would face harsh opposition from the majority of the two parties as he is outside their two camps which are like Janus, the two-headed god. He would have trouble enacting legislation and receiving support unless he A) Expanded executive power, which would go against his whole platform B) Tried to bend his legislation in order to appease, against going against his platform.

And here comes my pessimism. We all know that this is just the beginning of our economic troubles and things are going to start falling downhill, very soon. Hyperinflation, expanding of governmental powers, centralization of the economy. While some may point out and say: And people will be sick of it and vote in Ron Paul! Here comes my cynicism: You must only look at history to know what will happen. People will embrace the government, even if it is clear they are the ones mainly responsible for it. Just look at FDR during his times and even in the future.
People will go to the government looking for help, demand the government intervene and demand that it grows its powers. We won't have our rights taken away from us, the majority of Americans will give them away freely. And then there will be us, the vocal minority, whom are being vilified by the press as I type this.
It is not going to be a nice next decade.

[idiom]

The Presidency would be helpless without the Congress.

2010 is the important year.

[freedomc0de]

Thanks Vessol, and unfortunately I see some truth in your post as well.
The Presidency would be helpless without the Congress.

2010 is the important year.

Every intelligent Obama supporter I talked to really liked Kucinich. I think a lot of hearts are in the right place and a win in 2012 isn't something to be downplayed as unimportant, even though I agree that without the backing of congress the executive powers would be ineffective. But at the same time, I think this idea has the potential to pick up mass amounts of support and energy and is something worth taking into consideration.

[nayjevin]

We've seen the media lambaste these current tea parties and set them aside as nothing more than a racist showdown for the sore loser republican party. We've seen on numerous blogs, news stories, and youtube videos the constant bashing between the left and the right where nothing but name calling and arguments fester into the comment sections. And we sigh and get disgusted, but we read on. And as a whole, at least here our stance has been that this isn't about the left or the right any longer. For us it's always been about freedom, accountability, transparency, and honesty.

But at this point in our system, I don't see another way of coming even remotely close to winning this then what I am about to propose, and maybe it's a pipe dream.. If you look back at how far we've come....from the biggest money bomb by any grassroots effort, to the blimp, to the revolution march, to the end the fed protests, and on and on, you will realize we haven't been just sitting on our asses contrary to what some people have recently suggested, we have accomplished some things. We've gained monumental success by huge money bombs, blimps, meetups, the revolution march, protests, and an array of devotion that only could come from the hearts of good, honest people. But with that success comes things we have to look out for. There have been times when not so nice people have come on here and pretended to be Paul supporters and asked for our money, and there will be times when politicians, like those republicans at the tea parties, will tell us everything we want to hear because they know we are about to be in the power position. And if we believe these people, and the MSM they will have sidetracked us, funneled our dissent and effectively controlled the movement.

But this isn't just about us. There are people out there that agree with us for the most part, people that love this country and are against the major things we are against. People are starting to catch on to this false left/right paradigm and because of this I don't see any other logical powerhouse move than a Paul/Kucinich ticket in 2012. The reason we look up to Dr. Paul is the same reason people look up to Kucinich. Honest..Integrity..Truth. We sense it, we see it in their voting records and hear it when they speak. Whether you agree with either fundamental philosophy we all know the future of America if we continue on this dead end path. In the past few months you'd think 700 billion dollars was chump change. We've witnessed the lies that brought on the Iraq War, the Patriot Act, the 4th amendment being rolled on, the 2nd amendment about to be rolled on, the FISA bill accepted by both parties, and of course the bailouts. These are the major issues at hand. Our constitution is being trampled on. The only two people that have stood against this tyranny from the beginning are Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. And I think in 2012, if we banded together not for our individual philosophies, but for our love of this country and what it was founded on then we might have a chance in 2012.

If half the people who don't vote because they are disgusted with the system voted for a single ticket, that candidate would win. In this regard I agree with you.

I am not so sure about Kucinich's votes, haven't looked into it enough -- but I'm fairly confident he doesn't have quite the integrity RP does (who does though?).

I'm with you in principle. More and more folks are getting fed up, that's for sure. POTUS is but one office, however, and much work needs done at the precinct level. There are small communities all over the place that actually retain some freedom. Places like Ithaca New York are printing their own currencies to guard against the dollar. Freedom candidates are running for offices all up and down the ladder.

Even politicians are wising up - some are realizing they can stand for their beliefs and get support. Some are realizing that as a strict political move, adopting the language of the new 'tea party' wing of the political spectrum is advantageous.

Most importantly - the younger generation is pissed. Schools are getting crazy, the Daily Show is the most accurate news source on TV, and the Internet is still (mostly) free. The time is now, and a bi-partisan ticket, announced early, and given time to gain momentum - could potentially win POTUS.

I disagree that RP as prez would be ineffective - BTW - he and Freedom Watch would be on TV every night as a public service, for instance. As commander in chief, he'd bring the troops home immediately. There are many things he could do with signing statements --- why the hell not? close fucking guantanamo and end warrantless wiretapping immediately. Why not!

Top issues to push are the fallacy of the left/right paradigm and paper ballots, IMO. The people are pissed enough they don't trust gov't right now. And the internet is powerful enough that we can expose anyone they put in front of us for the stiff suits they are.

I think we can win in peace.

[nayjevin]

BTW I do like Kucinich alot. Point about integrity could probably have been left out -- he's the best (D) I can think of.

[JoshLowry]

I don't understand Kucinich.

He carries around a pocket constitution but he must have sharpie markered over the 2nd.


It is time that we ban handguns. We have to do that in order to protect our cities. It is time that we took a position that says that the 14th Amendment, you know, that right to life, liberty, is just as important as the 2nd Amendment. It’s time that we took a stand on behalf of the health and safety of the American people and, as president, I’m ready to do that.

Because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away...

He's good on a lot of issues, but liberty's teeth need to be protected.

[freedomc0de]

I don't understand Kucinich.

He carries around a pocket constitution but he must have sharpie markered over the 2nd.



Because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away...

He's good on a lot of issues, but liberty's teeth need to be protected.

I agree, but at the same time, I think at this present crisis these two can look pass these minor issues and deal with the true crises at hand.

[nayjevin]

I don't understand Kucinich.

He carries around a pocket constitution but he must have sharpie markered over the 2nd.



Because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away...

He's good on a lot of issues, but liberty's teeth need to be protected.

I agree that banning handguns would be an insane policy. There's a spectrum between no restriction on weapon use and restriction on some weapon use -- and it seems Kucinich is about as far on the wrong side of it as he can be, so I agree with you there. (hell I think I oughta be able to own a nuclear weapon so long as I don't drop it offensively).

That's a big concern. In his defense, gun control is an issue that can be emotionally charged. If this is the case, I could vote for that ticket. If it's a matter of lobbying and political interests that got him to take a strong stance on the gun issue -- I don't think I can forgive that.

Are there better democrats for a bipartisan ticket? Is it time to stop looking 'across the aisle' for an RP running mate? (both sides of the aisle are wrong by any objective evaluation, in truth).

Rand/Ventura? There has got to be a ticket that could win, if announced early enough.... but that ticket has to either pull huge numbers from the disenfranchised, or reach across the aisle somehow. What do you think?

[JoshLowry]

I agree, but at the same time, I think at this present crisis these two can look pass these minor issues and deal with the true crises at hand.

It's not a minor issue to me. I think if you ban guns then you will soon be looking at crises like these: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=123358

I don't think I want to play politics and reach across aisles. As a volunteer, that is where I would stop. That may be wrong of me. I don't know. :o

Maybe Johnson could prove to be the real deal.

[silverhawks]

I don't believe any party will be able to get us out of the predicament we're in. A political movement maybe; but a party? No.

The model of party politics is horribly broken and has led the nation down the garden path for 50 years; from what I read, the Founding Fathers never even wanted a party system; Washington himself said that it would lead the country to ruin and dictatorship, and look how right he was.

Even if a 3rd party could build the support at this stage to win the White House in three years, would 4 years or 8 years be enough to peacefully undo the damage that has been done to the nation? We've already seen TPTB rig at least two elections within our lifetime, and block out Dr Paul from the media entirely, while assassinating his character- who's to say they won't do this again in 2012?

I agree to a limited extent on focusing on getting good people into Congress, stopping their legal insider trading, taking money out of politics by blocking gifts from lobbyists or donations from PACs, allowing candidates free air time on PBS even...but I have the horrible feeling that this will come too little, too late.

And we've already seen the signs that the neo-cons are lining themselves up for a "3rd party libertarian" run in 2012...and they have a lot more money and influence available to them than any 3rd party would have right now. I'm feeling that putting all of our eggs in a 3rd party basket is begging to lose.

Focusing on educating people as to the message of liberty and their inalienable rights, appealing to American patriotism instead of nationalism, appealing to equality and individualism instead of diversity and collectivism, pointing out the fallacies of the left/right paradigm, promoting entrepreneurial solutions to our challenges, helping people become independent from government on their own terms...those are battles that I see as winnable. An intellectual revolution of that sort in this country would radically change things from the ground up, instead of from the top down, and would reinforce the values which will sustain future generations.

[nayjevin]

Focusing on educating people as to the message of liberty and their inalienable rights, appealing to American patriotism instead of nationalism, appealing to equality and individualism instead of diversity and collectivism, pointing out the fallacies of the left/right paradigm, promoting entrepreneurial solutions to our challenges, helping people become independent from government on their own terms...those are battles that I see as winnable. An intellectual revolution of that sort in this country would radically change things from the ground up, instead of from the top down, and would reinforce the values which will sustain future generations.

QFT - quoted for truth