PDA

View Full Version : US Marine arrested at Logan with Guns and Explosives




Kotin
04-19-2009, 06:25 PM
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/04/us_marine_arres.html


A US Marine was arrested today at Logan International Airport after federal airport screeners discovered a gun, bomb-making materials, and ammunition in his checked baggage, State Police and Transportation Security Administration officials said.

Corporal Justin Reed, 22, of Jacksonville, N.C., was booked on US Airways Flight 877 to Charlotte, N.C., said TSA spokeswoman Ann Davis. She said Reed had arrived on a flight from Las Vegas this morning.

TSA screeners in Terminal B called State Police at 7:10 a.m. after a screen discovered the following items in his checked baggage: a locked handgun box containing a semi-automatic handgun, a fully loaded gun magazine, several boxes of 9 mm and 7.62 mm ammunition, three model rocket engines containing an explosive mixture, military pull-type fuses, switches, electronics kit boxes with various components, and a hand grenade fuse assembly with detonator.

Reed was charged with possession of an infernal machine and possession of a concealed weapon in a secure area of an airport. He was booked at the State Police barracks at Logan and held in lieu of $50,000 bail. He will be arraigned at East Boston Municipal Court on Tuesday.

Davis said it is legal to have a firearm in checked baggage but that it must be declared to security officials. The passenger in this case had not declared the weapon, she said. Davis said all checked baggage on domestic flights is required to be screened by TSA on originating flights.

Reed's bags had to be screened again at Logan because baggage handlers inadvertently routed them to baggage claim instead of onto his connecting flight to Charlotte. Typically bags are not rescreened during a layover, she said.

Davis said TSA was "actively investigating" why the gun and explosive materials were not detected during the screening in Las Vegas.

sevin
04-19-2009, 06:35 PM
Another excuse to keep an eye out for "right wing extremists."

silverhawks
04-19-2009, 06:44 PM
This screams setup to me. Not like a Marine wouldn't realise their bags are going to get checked by TSA, so why put a handgun and explosive materials in them?

Reason
04-19-2009, 06:46 PM
YouTube - U.S. Marine Caught With Explosives/Gun In Luggage At Boston Airport (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODAJvfoBtBE)

wd4freedom
04-19-2009, 06:47 PM
Setup

Kotin
04-19-2009, 06:52 PM
Setup


could be... looks a bit shifty if you ask me.

Reason
04-19-2009, 06:53 PM
Wasn't it just a few months ago this happened with another marine?

I can tell you from first hand experience in the Air Force that a lot of the marines I met were straight up bloodthirsty robots with very low IQ's. NOT ALL but definitely a decent amount

With the little information we have (pretty much none) I would be more apt to guess that this marine is just an idiot.

sparebulb
04-19-2009, 06:58 PM
The timing of this event is coincidental with the DHS memos. I don't believe in coincidences.

Cowlesy
04-19-2009, 07:01 PM
VERY suspicious.

stag15
04-19-2009, 07:04 PM
Either this dude was mentally challenged, or it was setup.

BLS
04-19-2009, 07:21 PM
Oh boy....this screams foul play.

Anti Federalist
04-19-2009, 07:24 PM
Reed's bags had to be screened again at Logan because baggage handlers inadvertently routed them to baggage claim instead of onto his connecting flight to Charlotte. Typically bags are not rescreened during a layover, she said.

Davis said TSA was "actively investigating" why the gun and explosive materials were not detected during the screening in Las Vegas.

Oh bullshit, I'm calling shenanigans right now.

Set up or false flag shill.

Nothing in the bags was detected in Vegas, "accidentally" got sent to baggage claims in Boston and then were rescreened when all this shit was found??!!

Bullshit!

Of course, all this on the heels of the fed "we are all terrorists" report and the Oath Keepers at Lexington Green today at noon.

Bull freakin shit!

idiom
04-19-2009, 07:29 PM
I dunno. Them Marines can be pretty disloyal.

Bloody Terrorists the lot of em.

MsDoodahs
04-19-2009, 07:39 PM
This screams setup to me. Not like a Marine wouldn't realise their bags are going to get checked by TSA, so why put a handgun and explosive materials in them?

I also thought "set up" when I read this.

He Who Pawns
04-19-2009, 08:28 PM
Marines are pretty dumb, as a rule, so the guy just might have been careless. I mean, the items described are fairly harmless. Just typical stuff any pyro would have.

asimplegirl
04-19-2009, 08:37 PM
Marines are pretty dumb, as a rule, so the guy just might have been careless.

Really? I beg to differ. My little brother is a Marine, and a damned smart one.... only became a Marine, as he wanted to be one of the first sent out to fight, not be held back , in his words, like a "damned sissy at a desk". He knows that he a bullet sponge, and says that this country is worth it, as did MANY of my uncles, cousins, and grandparents.

Secondly, this smells fishy to me... and I didn't hear anything THAT bad...for God sakes, the gun was locked in a box!

Anti Federalist
04-19-2009, 08:43 PM
Marines are pretty dumb, as a rule, so the guy just might have been careless. I mean, the items described are fairly harmless. Just typical stuff any pyro would have.

Wow.

Don't know quite what to say to that.

I'm the farthest thing from a cop lover or soldier sniffer, but I have to say, that of the Marines that I know, especially those of higher rank, are some of the brightest people I've met. And some of the most dedicated patriots as well.

Our own GunnyFreedom comes to mind also.

And harmless...maybe, but all of those items are classed hazmat explosives, and any damn fool would know that these items are all prohibited on an aircraft.

pcosmar
04-19-2009, 08:55 PM
Either this dude was mentally challenged, or it was setup.

Or he was acting under orders. :(
Tim Mcveigh comes to mind.

Reason
04-19-2009, 09:12 PM
YouTube - U.S. Marine Arrested With Weapon[s] In Luggage At Boston Airport (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqsgaX-oU0I)

reagle
04-19-2009, 10:41 PM
this sounds like a set up

HOLLYWOOD
04-19-2009, 10:43 PM
Sounds like somebody organized a DHS grassroots project to increase the budget of certain departments and their funding for monitoring Veterans and any person questioning anything about the US government.

This SOP 101... need funding or authorization... all yah gotta do... is justify it.

Pericles
04-19-2009, 11:18 PM
Wow.

Don't know quite what to say to that.

I'm the farthest thing from a cop lover or soldier sniffer, but I have to say, that of the Marines that I know, especially those of higher rank, are some of the brightest people I've met. And some of the most dedicated patriots as well.

Our own GunnyFreedom comes to mind also.

And harmless...maybe, but all of those items are classed hazmat explosives, and any damn fool would know that these items are all prohibited on a civilian aircraft.

Fixed it. I do seem to recall that when the 82nd or 101st drop in, they are allowed to bring things that go "BOOM" with them.

Either a setup or the TSA at LAS is totally incompetent and the Marine is an idiot. Which way would you bet.

He Who Pawns
04-19-2009, 11:28 PM
Really? I beg to differ. My little brother is a Marine, and a damned smart one.... only became a Marine, as he wanted to be one of the first sent out to fight, not be held back , in his words, like a "damned sissy at a desk". He knows that he a bullet sponge, and says that this country is worth it, as did MANY of my uncles, cousins, and grandparents.

Marines have the lowest GT/ASVAB scores in the US military. Marines will take enlistees with lower GT scores than the Army, Navy or Air Force will. Air Force has the highest standards for enlistment intelligence test scores, and Marines have the lowest.

I was simply stating a fact. Sorry this fact seems to have offended certain people. Facts sometimes do that.

I'm an army vet myself. And we always thought of Marines as "meatheads." I fact, that's what we called them.

asimplegirl
04-19-2009, 11:30 PM
My brother had a choice on who to sign up with...he CHOSE the Marines as his wife's Grandpa had been one, as had many men in our family...Also, he could continue playing football straight from college.

Don't make blanket judgments and assume you know EVERY person's IQ.

Kotin
04-19-2009, 11:32 PM
My brother had a choice on who to sign up with...he CHOSE the Marines as his wife's Grandpa had been one, as had many men in our family...Also, he could continue playing football straight from college.

Don't make blanket judgments and assume you know EVERY person's IQ.

agreed... especially not about Marines..


I have never met a marine I did not respect.

He Who Pawns
04-19-2009, 11:34 PM
listen, sugar-muffins, i never said anything about any individuals. i said marines in general have lower intelligence than the other branches of service. there are exceptions to every rule.

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
04-19-2009, 11:48 PM
I really try to not be paranoid but damn this smells fishy to me.

1000-points-of-fright
04-19-2009, 11:55 PM
Reed was charged with possession of an infernal machine

That's so fucking Metal. All hail Satan!

ChooseLiberty
04-19-2009, 11:57 PM
Bullsh*t detector pegging the dial here.

Setup! FAKE! Setup!

GunnyFreedom
04-20-2009, 12:17 AM
Wow.

Don't know quite what to say to that.

I'm the farthest thing from a cop lover or soldier sniffer, but I have to say, that of the Marines that I know, especially those of higher rank, are some of the brightest people I've met. And some of the most dedicated patriots as well.

Our own GunnyFreedom comes to mind also.

And harmless...maybe, but all of those items are classed hazmat explosives, and any damn fool would know that these items are all prohibited on an aircraft.

lol thanks AF,

now there surely are dumb Marines. no one could ever deny that. But there are also dumb, well everything. I'm willing to bet there are even dumb rocket scientists.

Dumb Marines tend to get put into places where they need more brawn than brain, and then they stick a bright Corporal in charge of them and employ them like an ox.

Now, I don't have an entire perspective, having served my enlistment in the air wing; but I personally never ran into that many dim bulbs. We had a guy in MAWS airframes that was good at handling the lift, so that's what he did.

I think people would think a lot differently about the Marines if not for media and movies sensationalizing the dumb Marine, like Gomer Pyle, and Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket.

The Marines try to recruit thinkers, and they do successfully push knowledge, hard. I think at least some of the confusion comes from the fact that the Navy and Marines are a "Task Oriented" command infrastructure, while the Army and the Air Force is a "Goal Oriented" command infrastructure. The difference in these two command philosophies tends to be dramatic on outward appearance; and to the uninitiated the Sailor or Marine is a mere 'machine' or a cog in the wheel of a larger structure.

Anti-Fed, I am guessing you are more able to discern bright Marines, at least in part because you have experience in a task oriented environment.

But once you process the fundamental difference between task oriented and goal oriented commands, I think it becomes apparent that Sailors and Marines are at least as much if not more 'independent thinkers' than the Army and maybe even the Air Force. You just have to stand up for yourself with a bit more...oomph in a task oriented environment; and most especially you have to have the exact right timing.

(ie - don't pick the moment when you are downrange of an active AK to decide to let the Sgt know he's dead wrong on something, {unless you have to step in to keep the squad from getting wiped out without any higher command to 'hold at all costs,' and other specifics} Timing is an art here, and one I didn't quite master in 4 years myself.)

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 12:20 AM
listen, sugar-muffins, i never said anything about any individuals. i said marines in general have lower intelligence than the other branches of service. there are exceptions to every rule.

And I said that blanket statements can be offensive to individuals who do not fit your stereotypical mold.

Case and point:

All Ron Paul supporters are extremists who are probably terrorists.

See how that works? That is what we hear from the MSM.. that by statistics alone, we are crazies that should be behind bars... Does that mean all of us are? No. And I find it offensive.

Another?

All politicians are evil.

So that would make Ron evil, too, right? We cannot know everything about everyone...and claiming we do is much more of a "meathead" concept than anything I have ever heard a Marine say. Jus' sayin'.

So, when you claim that Marines, IN GENERAL, (your words, not mine)are dumb, it pisses me off, as I have a brother who is a Marine, and is not stupid.

Please refrain from making blanket statements, or forming opinions about people that you do not know, as you are only alienating people that are on the same side as you.

He Who Pawns
04-20-2009, 12:33 AM
I don't really care if it pisses you off. It's a statement of fact. Marine enlistment intelligence standards are lower than any other branch, period. End of story.

Those of us who are actual combat vets ourselves don't hold other vets in such "reverence" and put them on such high pedestals as you and most other Americans seem to.

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 12:53 AM
I never said I held ANYONE in reverence, or put them on pedestals...another one of your generalizations about people you do not know.

Military has always been a part of my life, and has been a part of this family for ages....my family name, literally translated means "bearer of arms", as we have been defenders and fighters since the beginning.

I do, however, take offense to generalizations and blanket statements. Just because enlistment intelligence standards are lower does not mean that whoever joins is stupid. Do you also believe that if someone does not go to an Ivy League college they are stupid? The standards are MUCH lower for other school, you know. This is all I mean.


I never claimed to be pissed. I learned long ago that a man that opens his mouth to argue about someone or something he doesn't know about is no man at all.

GunnyFreedom
04-20-2009, 01:01 AM
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/04/us_marine_arres.html

Reed was charged with possession of an infernal machine

I honestly have no idea what to say about this. insane. crap.

"possession of an infernal machine"

in⋅fer⋅nal /ɪnˈfɜrnl/ –adjective

1. hellish; fiendish; diabolical: an infernal plot.
2. extremely troublesome, annoying, etc.; outrageous: an infernal nuisance.
3. of, inhabiting, or befitting hell.
4. Classical Mythology. of or pertaining to the underworld.

"[i]Infernal machine:" a machine or apparatus maliciously designed to explode, and destroy life or property.
- infernal. (n.d.). Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Retrieved April 19, 2009, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infernal

"maliciously designed to explode, and destroy life or property. " but now, what if his entire intent was just to blow a couple of stumps from out of his lower field? is it still 'infernal' then? designed to destroy property. maybe 'designed to destroy his own damn property' still equals 'infernal' :mad: government is insane. well, depending on the definition of 'malicious,' of course. ;)

I dunno, I tend to doubt he knew anything about it at all. I am very bothered by the lapse in the chain of custody. At least they are admitting there was a break in custody. If it went out of security and then came back in without the Marine's knowledge, then I would suspect foul play first and foremost.

Even if all the worst were true and he were some kind of domestic radical; (doubtful) then the broken chain of custody should be enough to broker a reasonable doubt, I think. Or at least it ought to. If he gets a good lawyer, there shouldn't be much behind this. His career in the Marines is over regardless of innocence or guilt, unless he was somehow carrying them 'on orders' -- a near impossibility. (I learned long ago that nothing is completely impossible when it comes to the .mil and the .dod

GunnyFreedom
04-20-2009, 01:05 AM
I don't really care if it pisses you off. It's a statement of fact. Marine enlistment intelligence standards are lower than any other branch, period. End of story.

Those of us who are actual combat vets ourselves don't hold other vets in such "reverence" and put them on such high pedestals as you and most other Americans seem to.

The US Army requires a 31 on the ASVAB to enlist, the Marines a 32. how is that 'lower than any other branch, period." :)

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 01:22 AM
Thank you, Gunny.

GunnyFreedom
04-20-2009, 01:29 AM
Hey Pawnbroker, check out this article from About.com:


Army and Marine Corps to Increase in Size (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyjoin/a/sizeincrease.htm)
By Rod Powers, About.com
Feb 19 2007

In a media roundtable after the congressional testimony, Conway emphasized that the Marines will not be lowing standards in order to meet the new numbers. “We do not want to sacrifice the quality of recruits simply to make the numbers,” he said.

According to the general, Marine recruiting standards are higher than that set by the Department of Defense. The DOD standard states that 90 percent of all recruits must be high school graduates. The Marine standard is 95 percent, and the service is recruiting 96 percent.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyjoin/a/sizeincrease.htm

:p


or even better yet, why not this article from the ArmyTimes.com



Enlistment rules: Marine Corps (http://www.armytimes.com/careers/military_careers/ONLINE.MCT.ENLISTMENT/)

The Marine Corps’ recruiting standards are set above the levels required by the Defense Department. During fiscal 2006, 95.8 percent of the Corps’ enlistees were high school graduates, though Defense Department standards require only 90 percent. Last year, 68.7 percent of Marine enlistees tested in the highest mental group category on the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery Test, exceeding the Defense Department standard of 60 percent.

http://www.armytimes.com/careers/military_careers/ONLINE.MCT.ENLISTMENT/

:D

I think you are just making stuff up as you go, quite frankly. Maybe you knew some asshat moron Marine once and now you feel obligated to carry around the broad brush now. Or maybe you are just a reactionary who fails to await facts. Either way, I encourage you to research it for yourself. :cool:

revolutionary8
04-20-2009, 01:31 AM
Marines are pretty dumb, as a rule, so the guy just might have been careless. I mean, the items described are fairly harmless. Just typical stuff any pyro would have.
Bannnnnn.
:D

disclaimer: My agner (sp.) comes from a multitude of malfeasense.

GunnyFreedom
04-20-2009, 01:34 AM
Thank you, Gunny.

oh hell, you don't have to thank me for stickin up for the Corps. Any Marine worth a gram of sea salt would. 8-)

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 01:35 AM
weh-hell. :)

I do not know much about requirements..or anything like that..after all, I tried to join the peace corps, not the military. LOL.

I do appreciate your knowledge on the subject, though, and in defense of men that are NOT by any means idiotic, I truly mean it.

revolutionary8
04-20-2009, 01:37 AM
:rolleyes:
Y'all need RPF "singles".
other than that, get on gettin' on!

:D

1000-points-of-fright
04-20-2009, 01:41 AM
This is an Infernal Machine!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6I9qX8U4bwI/R5lrtMtE2VI/AAAAAAAAC5w/rOJvLaDBFzA/s1600/noname2.jpg

revolutionary8
04-20-2009, 01:46 AM
This is an Infernal Machine!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6I9qX8U4bwI/R5lrtMtE2VI/AAAAAAAAC5w/rOJvLaDBFzA/s1600/noname2.jpg

I say _____________________ is manufactured by our industrial complex. Some call it the MIT, I call it the SIT.
You might notice that SIT is very close to SHIT.
That is not a coincidince.
lol

GunnyFreedom
04-20-2009, 01:52 AM
:rolleyes:
Y'all need RPF "singles".
other than that, get on gettin' on!

:D

hey, I've had just about enough of you buster... ;) this has nothing to do with ASG being a cajun. :o um. no - seriously though, I learned long ago that all the good Ron Paulers are either taken, or some 10 years too late for the OB ward.

revolutionary8
04-20-2009, 01:54 AM
hey, I've had just about enough of you buster... ;) this has nothing to do with ASG being a cajun. :o um. no - seriously though, I learned long ago that all the good Ron Paulers are either taken, or some 10 years too late for the OB ward.


NEVER
too late.

RPF SINGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZZ

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 01:56 AM
If OB stands for Oblivious Buttface, I would say that I am past that point, as I have no idea of what you are speaking. :D

...seriously.. what is OB award?

GunnyFreedom
04-20-2009, 02:14 AM
If OB stands for Oblivious Buttface, I would say that I am past that point, as I have no idea of what you are speaking. :D

...seriously.. what is OB award?

I'm sorry; I try not to riddle, but I do like unique perspectives.

OB ward. Obstetrics Ward. ie - born a decade too late. I'm 35, and nearly all of the single females I have met in Ron Paul-land have been 18, 19. That's like a different species of human. :)

So I've given up on RP-land, and am now counting on finding some lost sheep and recruiting them into political Paul-ishness. (Activist Constitutional Originalism with a heavy say in the GOP org.)

Either that, or I'm a decade too early. But I kinda liked witnessing the birth of personal digital electronics. :cool:

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 02:16 AM
LOL.

And, no, I will be 24 on the 4th of June...not 19, if that clears anything up. :)

BTW, my family lives in Jacksonville, are you anywhere near there?

GunnyFreedom
04-20-2009, 02:27 AM
LOL.

And, no, I will be 24 on the 4th of June...not 19, if that clears anything up. :)

BTW, my family lives in Jacksonville, are you anywhere near there?

nice, sometimes I really do like being wrong. :)

I do jobs in Jacksonville occasionally, it's some 3+ hours away. I'm a bit northeast of Raleigh. I have an old HS friend in Wilmington I visit occasionally, about an hour away.

Whenever I get into Jacksonville, I always visit the surplus shops. They have the best gear.

(shaddup, revolutionary8) :cool: lol

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 02:31 AM
I have never been, though my dad is trying to convince me.

Never left Louisiana...never. Want to make my way all over the South,though...It's a dream of mine.

May show up sometime around June, as my brother's wife is having a baby...scary, though.

Vessol
04-20-2009, 02:55 AM
Good to see some other NC folks here, but shouldn't you two bring your discussion to PMs? Not too sure about rules or anything, but going wayyy off-topic.

Regardless.

OT: I'm not sure where I stand. Part of me wants to call bullshit, the DHS report outlining disillusioned soldiers being a danger and this happening? Way too coincidental.
Part of me wants to hope that the media won't eat it all up. But I know deep down that the news for the next week is going to be the mainstream media going over PTSD charts over and over and talk about the dangers of those "evil right-wing extremists whom are brainwashing our soldiers!"

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 02:59 AM
I don't know what good would come of this no matter if it was bull or not, you know?

Vessol
04-20-2009, 03:06 AM
I don't know what good would come of this no matter if it was bull or not, you know?

I'm just waiting for the press release of the investigation. If it's found out that he "read right-wing constitutional media" and feared "the government taking over" then I'm going to toss on my bullshit cap.

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 03:09 AM
I'll toss on mine, too, at that point.

GunnyFreedom
04-20-2009, 03:32 AM
I'm just waiting for the press release of the investigation. If it's found out that he "read right-wing constitutional media" and feared "the government taking over" then I'm going to toss on my bullshit cap.

hear here! it's mostly going to be a question of how seamlessly it fits into the DHS propaganda, I think.

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 03:36 AM
It's just scary any way you look at it.

If he did do something like that, why? And how was it so easy?

If he didn't and they are screwing this guy...how scary is that? How easily will the American public accept it, and willingly give up more freedom, in the name of freedom, ironically?

Objectivist
04-20-2009, 03:43 AM
So what he's a United States Marine.

Semper Fi

And I look down next to my LT and see a live 7.62 round laying next to it. ooooooooooo

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 03:45 AM
I don't see why it was so important to let us know his occupation... would it have been any better or worse if he were a school teacher, a policeman, a dj?

I don't think so....I didn't even think about that until you mentioned it, objectivist. Thanks for being so observant. LOL.

Objectivist
04-20-2009, 03:49 AM
I don't see why it was so important to let us know his occupation... would it have been any better or worse if he were a school teacher, a policeman, a dj?

I don't think so....I didn't even think about that until you mentioned it, objectivist. Thanks for being so observant. LOL.

Would what be any worse?

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 03:51 AM
a smurf?

Hell, nothing. LOL. I don't know.

Objectivist
04-20-2009, 03:58 AM
a smurf?

Hell, nothing. LOL. I don't know.

I rub gunpowder on my bags before I go on a trip and show up two hours early.

I was in Fiji a few years ago during the coup, and I carry military equipment and duffle bags when I go third world, saves on lost luggage. They thought I was CIA or something so they stripped all my stuff down and questioned me for a couple hours. My running partner is a former Spec Ops Instructor and he got thru the check point just before me and they let him go on his way, eventually I was allowed on the plane.

The rockets and igniters that Marine had are common materials for hobbyists but can be used in a pinch for a detonator, then so can .22 cases and some glue.

asimplegirl
04-20-2009, 04:00 AM
It just seems so pointless.

they said he had a fuse...a FUSE to a hand grenade... but no hand grenade?

Well, what the hell good was it going to do him, I ask??

Objectivist
04-20-2009, 04:06 AM
It just seems so pointless.

they said he had a fuse...a FUSE to a hand grenade... but no hand grenade?

Well, what the hell good was it going to do him, I ask??

Seeing that I have yet to meet a genius working for TSA, I don't know.

Anti Federalist
04-20-2009, 11:49 AM
lol thanks AF,

now there surely are dumb Marines. no one could ever deny that. But there are also dumb, well everything. I'm willing to bet there are even dumb rocket scientists.

Dumb Marines tend to get put into places where they need more brawn than brain, and then they stick a bright Corporal in charge of them and employ them like an ox.

Now, I don't have an entire perspective, having served my enlistment in the air wing; but I personally never ran into that many dim bulbs. We had a guy in MAWS airframes that was good at handling the lift, so that's what he did.

I think people would think a lot differently about the Marines if not for media and movies sensationalizing the dumb Marine, like Gomer Pyle, and Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket.

The Marines try to recruit thinkers, and they do successfully push knowledge, hard. I think at least some of the confusion comes from the fact that the Navy and Marines are a "Task Oriented" command infrastructure, while the Army and the Air Force is a "Goal Oriented" command infrastructure. The difference in these two command philosophies tends to be dramatic on outward appearance; and to the uninitiated the Sailor or Marine is a mere 'machine' or a cog in the wheel of a larger structure.

Anti-Fed, I am guessing you are more able to discern bright Marines, at least in part because you have experience in a task oriented environment.

But once you process the fundamental difference between task oriented and goal oriented commands, I think it becomes apparent that Sailors and Marines are at least as much if not more 'independent thinkers' than the Army and maybe even the Air Force. You just have to stand up for yourself with a bit more...oomph in a task oriented environment; and most especially you have to have the exact right timing.

(ie - don't pick the moment when you are downrange of an active AK to decide to let the Sgt know he's dead wrong on something, {unless you have to step in to keep the squad from getting wiped out without any higher command to 'hold at all costs,' and other specifics} Timing is an art here, and one I didn't quite master in 4 years myself.)

Welcome Gunny.

And you're right, that's a perspective of task vs. goal orientation that I have held for a while.

A merchant vessel's command structure is not much different from that of a navy vessel and task orientation is critical.

And I've found the same thing onboard, a very, very wide range of intelligence and ability, not a bell curve at all, but a flat line to two extremes.

I've met some stone cold idiots, and some of the smartest people in my travels.

Objectivist
04-20-2009, 03:46 PM
Anybody come up with any actual pictures of the so called detonators and grenade firing mechanism yet?

JdotRdot
04-20-2009, 04:07 PM
speaking of TSA anyone know about the list??...back when i was working in the states i used to fly almost twice a week & got checked every single time, the excuse they gave me was that people on no return flights get checked, but i found it highly suspicious. And sure enough i found out that there is a list, the Secondary Security Screening Selectee, or SSSS as it appears on the tickets
they called it "random screening" which is what caught my attention after the third or so time i was pulled aside

misterx
04-20-2009, 04:48 PM
Smells funny, but as others have pointed out, Marines are pretty stupid.

silverhandorder
04-20-2009, 05:04 PM
The contents of the bag are harmless. Rocket explosives? You got to be shitting me. The same stuff we used to play with when we were small? His gun was locked. It's just paranoia. The marine is dumb tho for not knowing the rules.

Crowish
04-20-2009, 05:08 PM
speaking of TSA anyone know about the list??...back when i was working in the states i used to fly almost twice a week & got checked every single time, the excuse they gave me was that people on no return flights get checked, but i found it highly suspicious. And sure enough i found out that there is a list, the Secondary Security Screening Selectee, or SSSS as it appears on the tickets
they called it "random screening" which is what caught my attention after the third or so time i was pulled aside

I was SSSS for a while - I have no idea why. Then it stopped.

Objectivist
04-20-2009, 05:50 PM
Where do some of you get the idea that "Marines" are dumb? Pretty broad statement don't you think?
How many "Marines" do you know personally may I ask?

akihabro
04-20-2009, 07:57 PM
If this is real maybe the screener in Las Vegas was a person who would qualify as a terrorist under the MIAC report. He must have known he was a Marine and let the dangerous items slide thru.

thasre
04-20-2009, 09:17 PM
I don't know if this situation was actually a setup, but I feel convinced that several million people are actually a little glad that a domestic terrorist attack almost happened so they can discredit ALL "right-wing nuts" who are "a danger" to this country.

TruckinMike
04-20-2009, 10:06 PM
... the guy just might have been careless. I mean, the items described are fairly harmless. Just typical stuff any pyro would have.

I agree...

He packed his gun in his checked baggage, not to be carried on, he probably thought he was within the law. Model rocket engines... so what! grenade fuses...so what! HE'S A 22 year old grunt just having some fun. 'nough said.

....sensationalism at its best.

DHS/TSA is DYING to actually find a terrorist. ...Please vindicate my existence... please show the world that I really am needed -- and wanted... and loved.. By golly, people really do like me...I think:confused:

TMike