You want to fight an effective fight?

[Deborah K]

anyone else feel like this is just the calm b4 the storm? I feel like in the next 6 months this whole thing is coming to a head......theres no way they can keep proping up the financial sector....i feel like civil unrest is going to b huge in the coming year....thoughts?

Here's my answer:


Several things are going to happen.


There will be a civil war when this fascist gov't attempts another amnesty. They will use that, coupled with the so-called gun running (they are claiming 90% of guns confiscated in Mexico are coming from here), to further restrict our rights and even enact martial law in some areas of the country. There is a deep hatred brewing amongst the pro and anti illegal movements. That fuse will be lit the moment the new law passes.

I also think the Federal Reserve will be taken over by the IMF, it's already being discussed. Funny too, since the IMF is just right down the street from the Federal Reserve in DC. This will usher in not only a new currency reserve for the world, replacing the dollar, but eventually ONE currency for every country.

There will no doubt, be shortages of food and supplies around the country. This is always the result when an economy collapses.



Here are some ways NOT to play into their hands:


1. Start threatening your congressmen and senators NOW about amnesty. Let them know you will actively work in campaigns running against them. Collect petitions, call your papers, radio stations, etc. and be very vocal about it. We also need to start calling out all the racist organizations that are getting gov't subsidies, like La Raza, MALDEF, ACORN, and others. Join groups like NumbersUSA, Grassfire.org, and ALIPAC. Amnesty will open the floodgates and merge us with Canada and Mexico faster than anything else.

2. Start working in your community to set up alternative currency and trading plans. Network with people by telling them that you are organizing a 'distaster planning program' which includes dealing with a 'severe recession'. Most of the sleeping will buy into it if you put it that way. We have to figure out how to do business in an organized fashion even if the economy collapses.

3. We should ask Dr. Paul and others in Congress to submit a bill legalizing alternative, competing currencies. This is crucial.

4. We need to get out of the UN and get the UN out of the US! If we don't, then the Constitution will cease to exist as the Supreme Law of the Land. We are already acutely aware that it is being perverted beyond recognition as it is.

5. In stead of term limits, we need to have the ability to fire any elected or appointed official who subverts the Constitution.

6. We need to be fighting to get rid of the IRS and the UN-Constitutional taxation of wages. Taxation = Slavery. This, above everything else - is how they are controlling us. No three letters strike more fear into the hearts of Americans than I R S - this, in and of itself is quantifiably UN- American. Generations now, have been led to believe that it is our patriotic duty to give the government our hard earned wages. The founders never intended for that to be so. History has proven over and over again that all it takes to enslave a people is to start by taking their property from them. Your labor, in exchange for wages, is YOUR property. It does NOT belong to anyone but YOU.

I believe the way to end the fascism that is overtaking this country is by having a tax revolt. An organized revolt, attended by well informed protestors who understand that taxation equals slavery, and that we will no longer permit our gov't to control us in this way.

[Deborah K]

No comments? Come on! You know I can take it.

[Kraig]

There is no need to ask for permission for anything, we need to just start doing our own thing and defy the federal government. Why ask Ron Paul to get us permission for competing currencies? Just do it.

Fight and ask for permission rarely, if ever, go together.

[Deborah K]

Okay, but if we don't first try to legalize it, then aren't we being a bit contradictory in our values? How can we claim that we abide by the supreme law of the land (the Constitution) and then act like anarchists?

[Kraig]

Okay, but if we don't first try to legalize it, then aren't we being a bit contradictory in our values? How can we claim that we abide by the supreme law of the land (the Constitution) and then act like anarchists?

Waaaaaaay past that time. You are advocating using reason with people who only know force, not gonna work. Force even preceded your constitution, force made it possible.

[Shiekyerbooty]

Great Ideas, we need to be more proactive and solution oriented


.

[Old Ducker]

No comments? Come on! You know I can take it.

Deborah, you are entirely correct. The only thing that can save us from complete national ruin, tyranny or a bloody revolution is a massive act of disobedience that operates under a published and accepted statement of goals and principles. It ought to be formally incorporated and the members sign an oath as to the founding document, and it should take the form of a tax revolt. The beauty of this
proposal is that the funds that are withheld from the government could go
into a huge offshore fund that would pay the legal expenses and compensate
for lost property of the members who are targeted for prosecution. Churches
also should be bound in contract to the corporation so that they can receive
moneys from the fund for charitable purposes, which has the beautiful side
benefit of setting up a post-revolt model for private welfare for the
elderly and indigent.

The members should gather in Washington and burn every federal document they
can get their hands on, starting with tax forms and codes. Speading the
ashes around various public monuments would be a good idea too...

The founding charter, unfortunately cannot be completely libertarian but will have to serve as a model for the eventual return to constitutional rule. It must contain key provisions such as the abolition of the FED, IRS, Dept of Ed, DHS, ATF and a few other agencies, restore sound money and it could simply help effect a streamlining of the federal establishment until alternative mechanisms can be enacted, such as merging the USDA and FDA..

The ONLY chance of effecting this is to call upon the leaders in the liberty movement to come together, endorse it, incorporate it and pledge their lives, fortunes and sacred honor. You know who I'm talking about...Schiff, Paul, Andrew Napolitano, Celeste, etc. It should also include some GOP'ers and DEMS, to gain the broadest possible membership.

I think 10 million folks would be the threshold, but the more the merrier.

[Deborah K]

Deborah, you are entirely correct. The only thing that can save us from complete national ruin, tyranny or a bloody revolution is a massive act of disobedience that operates under a published and accepted statement of goals and principles. It ought to be formally incorporated and the members sign an oath as to the founding document, and it should take the form of a tax revolt. The beauty of this
proposal is that the funds that are withheld from the government could go
into a huge offshore fund that would pay the legal expenses and compensate
for lost property of the members who are targeted for prosecution. Churches
also should be bound in contract to the corporation so that they can receive
moneys from the fund for charitable purposes, which has the beautiful side
benefit of setting up a post-revolt model for private welfare for the
elderly and indigent.

The members should gather in Washington and burn every federal document they
can get their hands on, starting with tax forms and codes. Speading the
ashes around various public monuments would be a good idea too...

The founding charter, unfortunately cannot be completely libertarian but will have to serve as a model for the eventual return to constitutional rule. It must contain key provisions such as the abolition of the FED, IRS, Dept of Ed, DHS, ATF and a few other agencies, restore sound money and it could simply help effect a streamlining of the federal establishment until alternative mechanisms can be enacted, such as merging the USDA and FDA..

The ONLY chance of effecting this is to call upon the leaders in the liberty movement to come together, endorse it, incorporate it and pledge their lives, fortunes and sacred honor. You know who I'm talking about...Schiff, Paul, Andrew Napolitano, Celeste, etc. It should also include some GOP'ers and DEMS, to gain the broadest possible membership.

I think 10 million folks would be the threshold, but the more the merrier.

I love the way you think! This is beautiful. Mark heard just yesterday though, that Obama has gone to the UN to get them to go after ALL offshore accounts. Which is yet something else that has to be fought. yeeeeesh!

[Old Ducker]

I love the way you think! This is beautiful. Mark heard just yesterday though, that Obama has gone to the UN to get them to go after ALL offshore accounts. Which is yet something else that has to be fought. yeeeeesh!

Thanks for the compliment. As for the rest, I wish Obama good luck getting at the fund if it's located in North Korea, Iran, Syria, Burma, or some other obnoxious shithole that wouldn't mind getting at a small piece of it in return for future concessions from the next US administration. Hell, we were gonna bring those troops home from South Korea anyway...:D

PS, if this happens, can I get an ambassadorship for coming up with the idea? LOL

[qh4dotcom]

There will be a civil war when this fascist gov't attempts another amnesty.

99% of the electorate voted for the pro-amnesty candidates McCain and Obama last November....sorry no civil war when people don't care about voting for amnesty.

Last year's election was the best thing to happen to illegals since the 1986 amnesty.

[Old Ducker]

99% of the electorate voted for the pro-amnesty candidates McCain and Obama last November....sorry no civil war when people don't care about voting for amnesty.

Last year's election was the best thing to happen to illegals since the 1986 amnesty.

Go away, bitch.

[revolutionary8]

Go away, bitch.

who the fuck ARE YOU
BITCH?
tellus,
what are YOUR GOALS?
PEACE??

[Old Ducker]

who the fuck ARE YOU
BITCH?
tellus,
what are YOUR GOALS?
PEACE??

His comment was off topic. Let him start another thread. Bitch.

[acptulsa]

Silver and gold aren't currency. Just ask them and they'll tell you that. When shtf, barter is the obvious answer, and precious metals are an ideal thing to barter with. We need no permission to do it.

To keep trade alive, just trade.

[Deborah K]

Silver and gold aren't currency. Just ask them and they'll tell you that. When shtf, barter is the obvious answer, and precious metals are an ideal thing to barter with. We need no permission to do it.

To keep trade alive, just trade.

Yes but it's unconstitutional for states to coin silver and gold. If we were to switch to silver and gold in order to stay in business and bypass tptb, at some point we'd have to coin it, don't you think?

[Kraig]

Yes but it's unconstitutional for states to coin silver and gold. If we were to switch to silver and gold in order to stay in business and bypass tptb, at some point we'd have to coin it, don't you think?

See my "major flaw in the constitution thread". This is power the federal government never should have.

[Deborah K]

99% of the electorate voted for the pro-amnesty candidates McCain and Obama last November....sorry no civil war when people don't care about voting for amnesty.

Last year's election was the best thing to happen to illegals since the 1986 amnesty.

Yes, the electorate voted for the two puppets that tptb propped up, both of which are pro-amnesty - a globalist objective. However, polls repeatedly show the American people don’t want amnesty for illegal aliens. The pressure that was applied in '07 by the American people stopped the first amnesty attempt. At the time, I was heavily involved in stopping it: http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-06/2007-06-18-voa39.cfm?CFID=172800478&CFTOKEN=29894531&jsessionid=8830e37078e9c694fc3e2155d1a1a626f125

As a minuteman, I'm still very involved in the border security movement, and I can tell you, there is an undercurrent of hostility like you wouldn't believe:

YouTube - The True Face of Hate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCT8XV0ut1A)

Do a quick study of Atzlan and MeCHa, check out the coverage of the pro-illegal marches that took place that year. The racist groups I mentioned funded the busing in of illegal protesters all over the country. The liberal media ate it up.

This is one issue most in the freedom movement seem to want to keep their heads in the sand over.

[Deborah K]

His comment was off topic. Let him start another thread. Bitch.

No, his comment wasn't off topic. I mention this issue as one of my predictions in my OP.




Originally Posted by Deborah K
Several things are going to happen.

There will be a civil war when this fascist gov't attempts another amnesty. They will use that, coupled with the so-called gun running (they are claiming 90% of guns confiscated in Mexico are coming from here), to further restrict our rights and even enact martial law in some areas of the country. There is a deep hatred brewing amongst the pro and anti illegal movements. That fuse will be lit the moment the new law passes.

I also think the Federal Reserve will be taken over by the IMF, it's already being discussed. Funny too, since the IMF is just right down the street from the Federal Reserve in DC. This will usher in not only a new currency reserve for the world, replacing the dollar, but eventually ONE currency for every country.

There will no doubt, be shortages of food and supplies around the country. This is always the result when an economy collapses.

[Ozwest]

Well constructed and educated thoughts Deborah K.

Shortly, resisters and opponents of the state will weaken, and like-minded people will converge on Liberty.

[Ozwest]

Silver and gold aren't currency. Just ask them and they'll tell you that. When shtf, barter is the obvious answer, and precious metals are an ideal thing to barter with. We need no permission to do it.

To keep trade alive, just trade.

Market forces will prevail.

[Deborah K]

See my "major flaw in the constitution thread". This is power the federal government never should have.


Link it.

[Deborah K]

Well constructed and educated thoughts Deborah K.

Shortly, resisters and opponents of the state will weaken, and like-minded people will converge on Liberty.

Thanks Oz. I hope you are right. I'm counting on it.

[Kraig]

Link it.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=185395&highlight=major+flaw+constitution

In a nutshell I am advocating free market competing currencies that are completely untouched by the government.

Too bad it turned into a flame war, I guess it's just me.

[Deborah K]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=185395&highlight=major+flaw+constitution

In a nutshell I am advocating free market competing currencies that are completely untouched by the government.

Too bad it turned into a flame war, I guess it's just me.

I don't agree with your assessment that giving congress to power to coin was a flaw. Besides, Congress relinquished that power in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act. And we've been getting screwed ever since.

I do agree, however, with competing currencies, although right now they are illegal. Which is why I think a bill should be introduced to legalize them. And I know you disagree with going through the procedure of legalizing it first, but I don't. I am still for the rule of law as a first measure.

[acptulsa]

Yes but it's unconstitutional for states to coin silver and gold. If we were to switch to silver and gold in order to stay in business and bypass tptb, at some point we'd have to coin it, don't you think?

First, coining it privately is completely legal. Just mark it with the amounts, not with any reference to 'dollars' or any other such name. Second, the Constitution doesn't prevent the states from coining silver and gold. It prohibits them from coining any other metal.

[Deborah K]

First, coining it privately is completely legal. Just mark it with the amounts, not with any reference to 'dollars' or any other such name. Second, the Constitution doesn't prevent the states from coining silver and gold. It prohibits them from coining any other metal.


Then I'm misinterpreting Section 10:

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

[Old Ducker]

No, his comment wasn't off topic. I mention this issue as one of my predictions in my OP.

Sure looked like it to me but okay, I apologize for my rudeness. The entire thread has taken a completely different direction, so I'm retiring from it.

[Deborah K]

Sure looked like it to me but okay, I apologize for my rudeness. The entire thread has taken a completely different direction, so I'm retiring from it.

Oh please don't do that? I presented several different issues in my OP. People are going to pick the ones they wish to address. I liked your initial input. Feel free to stay on that topic. :)

[acptulsa]

Then I'm misinterpreting Section 10:

More likely I am. Interesting. It may be that all fifty states are in violation of that.

[Ozwest]

First, coining it privately is completely legal. Just mark it with the amounts, not with any reference to 'dollars' or any other such name. Second, the Constitution doesn't prevent the states from coining silver and gold. It prohibits them from coining any other metal.

That's called a "Round."

There's a few people buying gold and silver and melting them into rounds, ingots, or bars.

[acptulsa]

That's called a "Round."

There's a few people buying gold and silver and melting them into rounds, ingots, or bars.

I just wish they'd add some nickel so they'll wear better in the pocket, and offer more sizes. That would add convenience.

[Ozwest]

If fiat money collapses, paper money will be worth "diddly squat."

Then the "Black Market" prevails.

Supply/Demand

[Deborah K]

More likely I am. Interesting. It may be that all fifty states are in violation of that.

Really? There are states that are actually coining? If so, then that could be used as an alternative currency during a collapse. I know that Dr. Paul has suggested competing currencies as a solution to our economic woes, (along with abolishment of the Fed and IRS) so I am still in favor of asking him to submit a bill for it, if for nothing else than to bring attention to the issue.

Tptb need to know we are aware of what their intentions are and that we are planning accordingly.

[Ozwest]

I just wish they'd add some nickel so they'll wear better in the pocket, and offer more sizes. That would add convenience.

Hahaha

I've got a few beat-up oz's I save for playing with.

Love the weight --- feel.

[Kraig]

I don't agree with your assessment that giving congress to power to coin was a flaw. Besides, Congress relinquished that power in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act. And we've been getting screwed ever since.

I do agree, however, with competing currencies, although right now they are illegal. Which is why I think a bill should be introduced to legalize them. And I know you disagree with going through the procedure of legalizing it first, but I don't. I am still for the rule of law as a first measure.

Well if you support competing currencies I think we are in complete agreement. Congress having the power to coin money is moot IMO if they have to compete in a free market to retain their currencies value.

[Deborah K]

If fiat money collapses, paper money will be worth "diddly squat."

Then the "Black Market" prevails.

Supply/Demand


Assuming of course, that we don't end up like they did when the USSR collapsed. Here's an interesting article about that. We could learn something from this:

http://culturechange.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=325&Itemid=66

[Deborah K]

well if you support competing currencies i think we are in complete agreement. Congress having the power to coin money is moot imo if they have to compete in a free market to retain their currencies value.

qft

[Ozwest]

Assuming of course, that we don't end up like they did when the USSR collapsed. Here's an interesting article about that. We could learn something from this:

http://culturechange.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=325&Itemid=66 (http://culturechange.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=325&Itemid=66)

Sorry, attempted your link. No results.

[Deborah K]

Sorry, attempted your link. No results.

Weird. I just clicked on it in your post and it worked. :confused:

[Deborah K]

Oz, I posted a thread on it a while back, here are the excerpts that I found of interest:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=182355

[Ozwest]

Weird. I just clicked on it in your post and it worked. :confused:

I clicked it on your post and it worked. Bizarre.

Agree with most of what he says, but he's a tad self - indulgent.

I enjoyed the read.

Thanks

[Old Ducker]

In regards to a private gold standard, I thought it was posted here but now I remember it was from Lew Rockwell's site...there are bills in several states (Montana, Georgia) that would allow individuals to settle debts to the state (or receive credits) in gold. Gold Double Eagles have been legal tender since 1986. Under these bills, banks would be empowered to set up gold accounts backed by deposits in their vaults. Individuals could write checks or make electronic transfers on these deposits (but there would be no specie). If these are enacted into law, it seems to me it would only be a matter of time before they were used to settle private debts as well...depending on what happens with FRN's. There is no law that would prevent it.

A second issue is how to deal with federal debt after the revolt. Here is an interesting idea:

http://www.newsbull.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3002

Another option would be to permit individuals to purchase allodial title to their property. While it is certainly unjust to demand that they purchase back what had in many cases been stolen from them, it beats paying property taxes in perpetuity...

[Ozwest]

In regards to a private gold standard, I thought it was posted here but now I remember it was from Lew Rockwell's site...there are bills in several states (Montana, Georgia) that would allow individuals to settle debts to the state (or receive credits) in gold. Gold Double Eagles have been legal tender since 1986. Under these bills, banks would be empowered to set up gold accounts backed by deposits in their vaults. Individuals could write checks or make electronic transfers on these deposits (but there would be no specie). If these are enacted into law, it seems to me it would only be a matter of time before they were used to settle private debts as well...depending on what happens with FRN's. There is no law that would prevent it.

A second issue is how to deal with federal debt after the revolt. Here is an interesting idea:

http://www.newsbull.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3002 (http://www.newsbull.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3002)

Another option would be to permit individuals to purchase allodial title to their property. While it is certainly unjust to demand that they purchase back what had in many cases been stolen from them, it beats paying property taxes in perpetuity...

I doubt that is going to work now, or in the near future.

Physical gold/silver will get you the results.

[Deborah K]

I clicked it on your post and it worked. Bizarre.

Agree with most of what he says, but he's a tad self - indulgent.

I enjoyed the read.

Thanks

Yes he is a bit self-indulgent. hehe. I am too, as well as prideful. Embarrassing to admit, but true. And I'm known to brag. lol. :D

Ha! I'm derailing my own thread!

I'll take it to priest. I'll try to be better.

[Old Ducker]

I doubt that is going to work now, or in the near future.

Physical gold/silver will get you the results.

I don't see why not. I forgot to mention that in these bills, the parity would be the London price. Obviously it wouldn't work if people were expected to use face value, LMAO!

[Ozwest]

Yes he is a bit self-indulgent. hehe. I am too, as well as prideful. Embarrassing to admit, but true. And I'm known to brag. lol.

Ha! I'm derailing my own thread!

I'll take it to priest. I'll try to be better.

I enjoy be a dickhead from time - time.

Mostly on this forum... In case you haven't noticed. :D

[Deborah K]

In regards to a private gold standard, I thought it was posted here but now I remember it was from Lew Rockwell's site...there are bills in several states (Montana, Georgia) that would allow individuals to settle debts to the state (or receive credits) in gold. Gold Double Eagles have been legal tender since 1986. Under these bills, banks would be empowered to set up gold accounts backed by deposits in their vaults. Individuals could write checks or make electronic transfers on these deposits (but there would be no specie). If these are enacted into law, it seems to me it would only be a matter of time before they were used to settle private debts as well...depending on what happens with FRN's. There is no law that would prevent it.

A second issue is how to deal with federal debt after the revolt. Here is an interesting idea:

http://www.newsbull.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3002

Another option would be to permit individuals to purchase allodial title to their property. While it is certainly unjust to demand that they purchase back what had in many cases been stolen from them, it beats paying property taxes in perpetuity...

What I don't get (in the article you posted) is, if the people were given all the land through "allodial title" after the revolution, then why do we have to buy it back?

But I hate that we have to pay property taxes, and that if you don't, they can take your house. It's the feudal system all over again only with different trappings, as the article states.

As to paying off the debt, I say the first thing that needs to happen is to STOP paying interest on the debt. The interest is going to the Federal Reserve. They buy Tbills at interest that WE are required to pay back. Screw that! The gov't runs the debt up, the Fed buys the debt at interest and we get stuck with the bill in more ways than one! First through the interest on the debt, then higher taxes, then inflation! Enough already!

Buying BACK land that was supposedly given through "allodial title" to pay off a debt that can never be paid off (since it's around 11 trillion dollars now) doesn't make sense to me.

[Deborah K]

I enjoy be a dickhead from time - time.

Mostly on this forum... In case you haven't noticed. :D

I hadn't noticed. I guess I'll have to check on that.....;)

[Old Ducker]

What I don't get (in the article you posted) is, if the people were given all the land through "allodial title" after the revolution, then why do we have to buy it back?

But I hate that we have to pay property taxes, and that if you don't, they can take your house. It's the feudal system all over again only with different trappings.

As to paying off the debt, I say the first thing that needs to happen is to STOP paying interest on the debt. The interest is going to the Federal Reserve. They buy Tbills at interest that WE are required to pay back. Screw that! The gov't runs the debt up, the Fed buys the debt at interest and we get stuck with the bill in more ways than one! First through the interest on the debt, then higher taxes, then inflation! Enough already!

Buying BACK land that was supposedly given through "allodial title" to pay off a debt that can never be paid off (since it's around 11 trillion dollars now) doesn't make sense to me.

Deborah, the thing is that not all property ever had allodial title in private hands. Certainly all of the landowners in the original 13 republics did, but not in cases where the US government purchased the property, such as Alaska and the Louisiana Purchase. While it's possible that when such land was open to settlement, allodial titles were issued (or land patents granted). I don't know. Where I live (Oregon) Allodial titles existed because the Oregon Territory was established by settlement.

Today as far as I know, only Texas still allows private land under allodial (as opposed to fee simple) title. I don't know if Dubya's ranch is one of them, but it wouldnt' surprise me, LOL

[Deborah K]

Deborah, the thing is that not all property ever had allodial title in private hands. Certainly all of the landowners in the original 13 republics did, but not in cases where the US government purchased the property, such as Alaska and the Louisiana Purchase. While it's possible that when such land was open to settlement, allodial titles were issued (or land patents granted). I don't know. Where I live (Oregon) Allodial titles existed because the Oregon Territory was established by settlement.

Today as far as I know, only Texas still allows private land under allodial (as opposed to fee simple) title. I don't know if Dubya's ranch is one of them, but it wouldnt' surprise me, LOL

I STILL wouldn't agree to buying the land to pay off the debt, unless the interest on the debt was removed. I'm only refering to the Tbills the Fed bought in order to issue more money. I understand that other countries bought our debt with the intention of earning interest, but I don't think we should have to pay the Federal Reserve back a friggin DIME of interest since the money they issue is out of thin air. Furthermore, I think the Federal Reserve should be the one to pay the interest on the debt to foreign investors with the money they get from us for the Tbills they bought with money they whipped up out of thin air.

[Old Ducker]

I STILL wouldn't agree to buying the land to pay off the debt, unless the interest on the debt was removed. I'm only refering to the Tbills the Fed bought in order to issue more money. I understand that other countries bought our debt with the intention of earning interest, but I don't think we should have to pay the Federal Reserve back a friggin DIME of interest since the money they issue is out of thin air. Furthermore, I think the Federal Reserve should be the one to pay the interest on the debt to foreign investors with the money they get from us for the Tbills they bought with money they whipped up out of thin air.

There is plenty of land in which the fed govt has allodial title but isnt otherwise in private hands and quite a bit of it is valuable, i.e. the Presidio in Frisco. Nearly 2/3rds of the State of Oregon is owned by the feds and administered either by the BLM or the US Forest Service.

[Deborah K]

There is plenty of land in which the fed govt has allodial title but isnt otherwise in private hands and quite a bit of it is valuable, i.e. the Presidio in Frisco. Nearly 2/3rds of the State of Oregon is owned by the feds and administered either by the BLM or the US Forest Service.

Are you trying to tell me that you don't agree with my idea about refusal to pay off the interest on the debt using the allodial title method? I would be willing to use it to pay off the debt if they 'forgave' the intersest owed on Federal Reserve backed Tbills. What do you think of that idea?

[Ozwest]

Are you trying to tell me that you don't agree with my idea about refusal to pay off the interest on the debt using the allodial title method? I would be willing to use it to pay off the debt if they 'forgave' the intersest owed on Federal Reserve backed Tbills. What do you think of that idea?

Allodial title method?

[Deborah K]

Allodial title method?

Old Ducker's suggestion: http://www.newsbull.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3002

[Ozwest]

Old Ducker's suggestion: http://www.newsbull.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3002 (http://www.newsbull.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3002)

Sounds like the Louisiana Purchase.

[Ozwest]

How would Native Americans interpret that?

You get what you pay for.

[Old Ducker]

Are you trying to tell me that you don't agree with my idea about refusal to pay off the interest on the debt using the allodial title method? I would be willing to use it to pay off the debt if they 'forgave' the intersest owed on Federal Reserve backed Tbills. What do you think of that idea?

I support allodial title sales to retire debt, but not to pay interest upon it. Let them print FRN's for that purpose. Once we have a private gold standard standing beside it, then can inflate it into oblivian for all that I care. But the reality is that it can't happen that way. Allodial title is a post-revolutionary program...along the lines of getting REAL, i.e. Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO) title when you purchase a vehicle.

My position is that whatever federal debt that cannot be retired by selling federal assets should be repudiated.

[Ozwest]

I support allodial title sales to retire debt, but not to pay interest upon it. Let them print FRN's for that purpose. Once we have a private gold standard standing beside it, then can inflate it into oblivian for all that I care. But the reality is that it can't happen that way. Allodial title is a post-revolutionary program...along the lines of getting REAL, i.e. Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO) title when you purchase a vehicle.

My position is that whatever federal debt that cannot be retired by selling federal assets should be repudiated.

I had another read of the link provided.

Sounds interesting.

As Ron Paul would say... What would be the unintended consequences?

[Old Ducker]

I had another read of the link provided.

Sounds interesting.

As Ron Paul would say... What would be the unintended consequences?

Let's review the three classes of Allodial property in the US:

1) Lands never settled or otherwise converted into private property
2) Lands where Allodial rights were never sold because the property was purchased by the US from a foreign government
3) Lands that had Allodial title in private hands after the Treaty of Paris, but which the government has covertly confiscated simply because people in this country don't understand the Constitution and their enumerated rights.

Consequences? A lot of lost revenue to government and a lot more control by the property owner (assuming it's uninsured and not encumbered by mortgages or liens). i.e. No building codes. No deed restrictions and other regulations established on private land by various levels of government.

You may call them unitended but I would think otherwise....:D

[Ozwest]

Let's review the three classes of Allodial property in the US:

1) Lands never settled or otherwise converted into private property
2) Lands where Allodial rights were never sold because the property was purchased by the US from a foreign government
3) Lands that had Allodial title in private hands after the Treaty of Paris, but which the government has covertly confiscated simply because people in this country don't understand the Constitution and their enumerated rights.

Consequences? A lot of lost revenue to government and a lot more control by the property owner (assuming it's uninsured and not encumbered by mortgages or liens). i.e. No building codes. No deed restrictions and other regulations established on private land by various levels of government.

You may call them unitended but I would think otherwise....:D

I'm not disagreeing with you, merely being cautious.

There are National Parks, Reserves, Heritage listed areas, military zones, lands allocated for public use, environmentally sensitive areas, Native title lands, Nature Reserves, Clearways, considerations of existing title-holders, contracts, etc...

[Old Ducker]

I'm not disagreeing with you, merely being cautious.

There are National Parks, Reserves, Heritage listed areas, military zones, lands allocated for public use, environmentally sensitive areas, Native title lands, Nature Reserves, Clearways, considerations of existing title-holders, contracts, etc...

Oz, I dont necessarily have an opinion on some of those classifications (National Parks, for example) but you do raise a very interesting artifact...Indian Reservations. Native Indian tribes are considered in law to some extent as "nations" but a nation without allodial rights is no nation at all. I suspect the native Allodial rights of the indian tribes were NEVER recognized by the US government (otherwise what is the basis of authority for the Bureau of Indian Affairs?). Giving it back to them would be a major restorative act...one that is long overdue.

[Ozwest]

Oz, I dont necessarily have an opinion on some of those classifications (National Parks, for example) but you do raise a very interesting artifact...Indian Reservations. Native Indian tribes are considered in law to some extent as "nations" but a nation with allodial rights is no nation at all. I suspect the native Allodial rights of the indian tribes were NEVER recognized by the US government and giving it back to them would be a major restorative act...one that is long overdue.

What about areas that can be legally occupied for a period of time and ownership established? States like Wyoming, Montana, N/S Dakota must have such areas still. Or maybe not?

I bought a property with original fencing beyond my surveyed boundaries. After 9 years I applied for extended ownership, and to the dismay of the authorities I won my claim.

[Old Ducker]

What about areas that can be legally occupied for a period of time and ownership established? States like Wyoming, Montana, N/S Dakota must have such areas still. Or maybe not?

I bought a property with original fencing beyond my surveyed boundaries. After 9 years I applied for extended ownership, and to the dismay of the authorities I won my claim.

Yes. I owned a property where the fence to the neighboring property was three feet on my side of the surveyed boundary. When the neighboring property came up for sale (I put it off so as not to disturb my neighbor's stuff), I demanded that the fence be relocated to it's proper place and he agreed. The next owner never knew...

[Ozwest]

We are both lucky to live where we do. You live in the "Land of the Free," and I live in "The Lucky Country."

I miss the States. If you get a chance, check out Oz.

[fedup100]

Yes, the electorate voted for the two puppets that tptb propped up, both of which are pro-amnesty - a globalist objective. However, polls repeatedly show the American people don’t want amnesty for illegal aliens. The pressure that was applied in '07 by the American people stopped the first amnesty attempt. At the time, I was heavily involved in stopping it: http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-06/2007-06-18-voa39.cfm?CFID=172800478&CFTOKEN=29894531&jsessionid=8830e37078e9c694fc3e2155d1a1a626f125

As a minuteman, I'm still very involved in the border security movement, and I can tell you, there is an undercurrent of hostility like you wouldn't believe:

YouTube - The True Face of Hate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCT8XV0ut1A)

Do a quick study of Atzlan and MeCHa, check out the coverage of the pro-illegal marches that took place that year. The racist groups I mentioned funded the busing in of illegal protesters all over the country. The liberal media ate it up.

This is one issue most in the freedom movement seem to want to keep their heads in the sand over.


BO hired the head of LaRAza and she now has an office in the BO black house and works hand and glove with the janitor that would be president to make sure all of Mexico is made legal in the the new NAU!

[qh4dotcom]

Yes, the electorate voted for the two puppets that tptb propped up, both of which are pro-amnesty - a globalist objective. However, polls repeatedly show the American people don’t want amnesty for illegal aliens. The pressure that was applied in '07 by the American people stopped the first amnesty attempt. At the time, I was heavily involved in stopping it: http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-06/2007-06-18-voa39.cfm?CFID=172800478&CFTOKEN=29894531&jsessionid=8830e37078e9c694fc3e2155d1a1a626f125

As a minuteman, I'm still very involved in the border security movement, and I can tell you, there is an undercurrent of hostility like you wouldn't believe:

Do a quick study of Atzlan and MeCHa, check out the coverage of the pro-illegal marches that took place that year. The racist groups I mentioned funded the busing in of illegal protesters all over the country. The liberal media ate it up.

This is one issue most in the freedom movement seem to want to keep their heads in the sand over.

Actions speak louder than words...people may say they don't want amnesty but I don't see them becoming minutemen, I don't see most of them sending donations, etc....Instead what I see is 99% of them voting for amnesty.

Go ask anyone:

"If opposing amnesty is so important to you, why did you vote for a pro amnesty candidate? The illegals are right now very happy with whom you voted for"

"Have you learned your lesson and next time you won't vote for amnesty?"

and you'll see what I mean....you'll get a BS response.

George Carlin can explain this better than me

http://www.shoutfile.com/watch/iUkb3MBs/George-Carlin---Voting.html

Notice what he says about "the public"

[Deborah K]

Actions speak louder than words...people may say they don't want amnesty but I don't see them becoming minutemen, I don't see most of them sending donations, etc....Instead what I see is 99% of them voting for amnesty.

Go ask anyone:

"If opposing amnesty is so important to you, why did you vote for a pro amnesty candidate? The illegals are right now very happy with whom you voted for"

"Have you learned your lesson and next time you won't vote for amnesty?"

and you'll see what I mean....you'll get a BS response.

George Carlin can explain this better than me

http://www.shoutfile.com/watch/iUkb3MBs/George-Carlin---Voting.html

Notice what he says about "the public"


As I stated, the people defeated amnesty in '07. Yes, both 'propped up' candidates were for amnesty. That doesn't change the fact that the majority of people don't want amnesty. Most people are not single issue voters. So you can't use the fact that both candidates were pro amnesty as a litmus test that most americans want it.

You wait and see. When this issue comes to the table in Congress, that's when sh&t will hit the fan. Just watch.

[Deborah K]

Bump. After this massive health care plan is passed. Amnesty is next. I predict that is when shit will most definitely hit the fan in this country. We need to prepare.