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Wineman77
04-19-2009, 11:02 AM
I am trying to compile a list of incidents where the feds have treaded on states rights. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

So far, I have federaly funded education programs like head start and the federally mandated drinking age.

Icymudpuppy
04-19-2009, 02:04 PM
DEA Drug Enforcement Administration
BATF Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms
EPA Environmental Protection Agency
FAA Federal Aviation Administration
USDA United States Department of Agriculture
DHS Department of Homeland Security
FDA Food and Drug Adminstration
TSA Transportation Security Administration

All these, and many other alphabet federal agencies are way outside the bounds of federal authority granted by the constitution.

MPN
04-19-2009, 02:16 PM
DEA Drug Enforcement Administration
BATF Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms
EPA Environmental Protection Agency
FAA Federal Aviation Administration
USDA United States Department of Agriculture
DHS Department of Homeland Security
FDA Food and Drug Adminstration
TSA Transportation Security Administration

All these, and many other alphabet federal agencies are way outside the bounds of federal authority granted by the constitution.

How so?

Icymudpuppy
04-19-2009, 02:22 PM
Show me where the federal government is given the authority to regulate drugs, alcohol, firearms, tobacco, environmental issues, transportation whether wheeled legged or winged, agriculture, food, or homeland security.

Seems to me that the Federal government by the 10th amendment has authority to raise taxes (IRS), provide for the common defense (DOD), and Take a census (Census Bureau). As far as federal agents goes, that's all they can have.

MPN
04-19-2009, 02:31 PM
Show me where the federal government is given the authority to regulate drugs, alcohol, firearms, tobacco, environmental issues, transportation whether wheeled legged or winged, agriculture, food, or homeland security.

I submit to you, Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution. (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section8)


Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

Icymudpuppy
04-19-2009, 03:09 PM
With foreign nations, among the states, and with the indian tribes says nothing about commerce between individuals or private businesses.

MPN
04-19-2009, 03:28 PM
With foreign nations, among the states, and with the indian tribes says nothing about commerce between individuals or private businesses.

What if that commerce crosses state borders?

Njon
04-19-2009, 06:20 PM
Let's look at http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/cabinet/

Department of Justice = needs massive reduction. ATF, DEA (is DEA in the DOJ?), etc. are clearly unconstitutional.

IRS = unconstitutional

Department of the Interior = unconstitutional

Department of Agriculture = unconstitutional

Department of Labor = unconstitutional

Department of Health and Human Services = unconstitutional

Department of Housing and Urban Development = unconstitutional

Department of Transportation = unconstitutional

Department of Energy = unconstitutional

Department of Education = unconstitutional

Department of Homeland Security = unconstitutional

EPA = unconstitutional

Non-military intelligence agencies = unconstitutional

Federal Reserve = unconstitutional


Most people in prison for federal crimes = imprisoned unconstitutionally (the Constitution says what the feds can punish, and it's a narrow list)

UN & NATO = unconstitutional

WTO/IMF/World Bank/NAFTA/CAFTA = unconstitutional

Njon
04-19-2009, 06:22 PM
I submit to you, Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution. (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section8)


Ugh. You're using the commerce clause to defend all that big government? That's the same kind of reasoning the statists use. Here, read these: http://www.constitution.org/col/02729_fed-usurp.htm and http://federalistblog.us/2006/08/busting_congress_interstate_commerce_myth.html

idiom
04-19-2009, 07:42 PM
Without an FAA most aircraft could not travel abroad.

MPN
04-20-2009, 02:54 PM
Ugh. You're using the commerce clause to defend all that big government? That's the same kind of reasoning the statists use. Here, read these: http://www.constitution.org/col/02729_fed-usurp.htm and http://federalistblog.us/2006/08/busting_congress_interstate_commerce_myth.html

I'm not defending it. I'm simply trying to play devils advocate. Educated debate and discussion is how you win over the masses. I was simply attempting to initiate such a debate.