Our biggest mistake as grassroots during the primaries

[ItsTime]

We did not concentrate on what united our views with the GOP. We concentrated to much on things like ending the Iraq war. There I said it. It has been bothering me for awhile.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Now where's that thread of hundreds of posts on what went wrong with the primaries?

[Anti Federalist]

We did not concentrate on what united our views with the GOP. We concentrated to much on things like ending the Iraq war. There I said it. It has been bothering me for awhile.

But on that one issue there could be no common ground and the GOP was not going to let us forget that.

Carl Cameron: "So what you are saying is we should take our marching orders from al Quaida?"

You seem to forget that, up until last Wednesday, spending, taxing, bailouts, loss of freedom and shredding the constitution was all "ok" as far as the GOP was concerned, as long as "we was killing us some turrists".

[ItsTime]

But on that one issue there could be no common ground and the GOP was not going to let us forget that.

Carl Cameron: "So what you are saying is we should take our marching orders from al Quaida?"

You seem to forget that, up until last Wednesday, spending, taxing, bailouts, loss of freedom and shredding the constitution was all "ok" as far as the GOP was concerned, as long as "we was killing us some turrists".

I dunno. Our grassroots had anti war signs at every sign wave (so it seemed) the msm played off that.

But you have valid points.

[max]

We did not concentrate on what united our views with the GOP. We concentrated to much on things like ending the Iraq war. There I said it. It has been bothering me for awhile.

even if we de-emphasized the anti-war stance (which would have been selling out).....the GOP would have discredited Ron Paul anyway. They dont just hate him because he was anti-war.....his opposition to the FED and IRS ultimtely threatens both partie's stranglehold

[ItsTime]

even if we de-emphasized the anti-war stance (which would have been selling out).....the GOP would have discredited Ron Paul anyway. They dont just hate him because he was anti-war.....his opposition to the FED and IRS ultimtely threatens both partie's stranglehold

So anti war was our biggest issue? I personally joined the R3volution because of his tax issues.

[Anti Federalist]

I dunno. Our grassroots had anti war signs at every sign wave (so it seemed) the msm played off that.

But you have valid points.

Yes they did, I was one of those waving those signs at times.

The ending of empire and unconstitutional war is critical to whole concept of "limited government", at least as RP and myself and many others see it.

And of course the MSM played that up, since it stirred up the waters in the GOP primary and gave rise to some of the "over the top" war mongering statements from the likes of McPain and the Ghoul. Which, to the MSM, was gold.

But the GOP still doesn't "get it", look at Shamity railing at the Atlanta tea party about "defense cuts".

Until the GOP has an epiphany and realizes that, (a) never ending war against nebulous enemies of our own creation and the support of a global US empire will bankrupt us and (b) domestic tyranny will always show up at your door in a uniform, I don't see much hope of the RP "movement" and the GOP coming together in any significant way.

RP and all of us are a gigantic collective thorn in the side of the GOP and if they had their druthers, they'd be more than happy to see us dry up and blow away.

[Anti Federalist]

So anti war was our biggest issue? I personally joined the R3volution because of his tax issues.

The third largest expenditure in the federal budget, after SS and debt service is the military.

We, as a nation, spend more than the rest of the world combined on miltary defense.

Until this changes, there will never be any significant reduction or change in tax policy.

Which is why RP's biggest shibboleths are ending or phasing out of SS, ending the illegal private FED and drawing back of the US military empire and the unconstitutional wars.

Which is not to mention the larger moral question of 5000 dead US soldiers and a million plus dead Iraqis.

Believer, agnostic or atheist, I care not which, that alone is "bad karma" in the great cosmic reckoning of things and will be judged harshly, sooner or later.

[ItsTime]

The third largest expenditure in the federal budget, after SS and debt service is the military.

We, as a nation, spend more than the rest of the world combined.

Until this changes, there will never be any significant reduction or change in tax policy.

Yeah I understand that all now. However when I first joined I did not and I am sure many did not. So that is why I thought we should have started out with a different message. Pretty much dumb it down. I think we should be dumbing it down for the neo-cons at these tea parties, that is why I started this thread.

[Anti Federalist]

Yeah I understand that all now. However when I first joined I did not and I am sure many did not. So that is why I thought we should have started out with a different message. Pretty much dumb it down. I think we should be dumbing it down for the neo-cons at these tea parties, that is why I started this thread.

Well, I'm of the mind that the average RP person is smarter than the average bear, so maybe that's why you, and myself, figured it out.

But how dumb should we make it?

Or perhaps this is the better question: how dumb can we make it, until "it" becomes meaningless?

God knows, I've tried, but trying to thumbnail and "dumb down" almost 100 years of FED shenanigans, 100 years of wars fought on "facts" that later turned out to be lies and basic economic theory to people who can't find Iraq on a map or know the difference between a commodity and a bowl of corn soup, is next to impossible.

[ronpaulhawaii]

ahh... the beginnings of "laundry day."

I don't know about the anti-war thing, but do know that "framing" arguments is of utmost importance.

I don't think many of us are "anti-war" as much as we are anti immoral war.

Too busy to give this the time it deserves, I look forward to seeing this discussion develop...

[pcosmar]

Wait a friggin' minute

Obama won because he was against the war and for transparency in Government (Both Lies).

So WHO got it wrong??? :confused:

[Raul08]

I dont think it was a mistake.

Without making sure that point got across, we would have been seen as just another run of the mill republican contender supporter.

[Anti Federalist]

Wait a friggin' minute

Obama won because he was against the war and for transparency in Government (Both Lies).

So WHO got it wrong??? :confused:

Exactly.

And had the hide bound GOP understood that and combined it with a "general" message of true conservatism, then we would be talking about President Paul today.

Assuming, of course, that everything past that point was on the up and up, which it isn't.

The system got exactly what it wanted, a fresh, new, hip, "colorful" face to peddle the same old poison.

[Anti Federalist]

ahh... the beginnings of "laundry day."

I don't know about the anti-war thing, but do know that "framing" arguments is of utmost importance.

I don't think many of us are "anti-war" as much as we are anti immoral war.

Too busy to give this the time it deserves, I look forward to seeing this discussion develop...

I am anti-war in the same way I am anti-capital punishment.

In both cases, government malfeasance, lies and outright criminality has sent hundreds of innocent men to death row and has sentenced millions to death in war.

I do not trust the grotesque state with a rubber chicken, much less with the power to kill millions in the blink of an eye.

[Paulitical Correctness]

Demonizing the "Neocons" instead of trying harder to find ways to connect with them was a problem for me, personally.

Live and learn!

[Anti Federalist]

Demonizing the "Neocons" instead of trying harder to find ways to connect with them was a problem for me, personally.

Live and learn!

A suppose it's a question of who shot first.

I maintain that they drew first blood.

Pointless to argue that particular point right now though.

[Imperial]

I feel defeat for our movement was inevitable in the primaries in 2008. Honestly, an outside and insurgent group that has been ostracized by a ruling party and is below other opposition groups [like the Democrats] working from the ground up and having to defeat other people's perceptions first left little room for 'victory' in the conventional sense.

In that regard, issues like the Iraq War and the Drug War managed to brand ourselves as distinct. We managed to gain the attention of youth who were A) lost to neo-conservatives because it was all they had ever heard or B) gain the attention of anti-war liberals or anti-drug war liberals who hadn't thought of another perspective before.

In that regard, we have made ourselves a distinct faction. We have manifested our influence in the tea parties, forced the Republican Party to acknowledge our existence, and gained some ethos for predicting the economic crisis. Now that we have established ourselves, we can build the bridges more effectually IF we actually do the job.

Not to say building bridges back then wasn't important too. However, in regards to a political and relevant force, I think that distinguishing our principals was just as important.

[Athan]

We did not concentrate on what united our views with the GOP. We concentrated to much on things like ending the Iraq war. There I said it. It has been bothering me for awhile.

I do believe you are wrong. (We ended up being right on that anyway seeing how the economy officially collapsed at the end of August which changed the general subject of the election. Keep in mind this is the GOP.) If we laid off on the Iraq war they would have picked up something to cut us under with.

During the primaries as a delegate, I NEVER brought up Iraq. They still united against us during votes. We had to fight for a full 30 minutes on Marque and Reprisal against Al Queda even though it is a Constitutionally sanctioned method to attack amorphous groups. They simply didn't want us in their show.