Lost rights

[hvac ak47]

What rights have we lost? Talking with someone who says we have not lost any rights. Ive allready mentioned the patriot act but he keeps saying name 2 people who have lost their rights. I keep saying we all lost rights with the patriot act. Can anyone here give me specific examples were someone lost their right to do something.

[Vvick727]

During mid-July, this executive order by Bush was passed.

Technically, you can be arrested for speaking out against the "stabilization" efforts in Iraq.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070717-3.html

Just one example that came to mind.

[Dustancostine]

Andrew Meyers in Florida was tasered yesterday for asking a question.

[Bradley in DC]

What rights have we lost? Talking with someone who says we have not lost any rights. Ive allready mentioned the patriot act but he keeps saying name 2 people who have lost their rights. I keep saying we all lost rights with the patriot act. Can anyone here give me specific examples were someone lost their right to do something.

Hi hvac (you work on air conditioners?),

There are lots of examples: following the adoption of rules pursuant to Title III of the USA PATRIOT Act, many money service businesses shut their doors since the new regulations made their companies unprofitable (the poor were the ones most affected who have now turned to payday loan businesses in their place); the regulations had to be modified to keep the businesses afloat.

You are paying higher costs for the compliance of the new regulations in finance, travel, communications, data/internet, etc. The marginal effect of some of those changes has cut off access to some.

The Inspector General of the FBI put out a report citing over 1,000 abuses of the law just by that agency just on one provision (NSLs).

http://www.eff.org/flag/07656JDB/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/08/AR2007030802356.html

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nationalsecurityletters/29077leg20070320.html

All of this was predicted by an astute observer back in 2002 (yours truly):

http://www.freecongress.org/media/2002/020627.asp

[crhoades]

Check out James Bovard's book Lost Rights (http://books.google.com/books?id=7K4HX0F99lIC&dq=&sa=X&oi=print&ct=book-thumbnail)

[drew1503]

Free speech zones.

[hvac ak47]

Thanks, can someone name 2 cases with peoples names that had their rights violated. Like maybe 2 cases where the government went into someones home without a warrant.

[bcmiller]

I get this argument all of the time. The idea that you have to be a victim of any or all of these laws in order to complain about the laws is an odd argument.

How can you say you were a victim of the international wiretapping law without a warrant? They did not tell you they listened to the call. Do we have to wait for the law to be enforced on us individually in order to complain about the law? These laws are made to be used and we cannot trust the government to only apply these to the "bad guys".

Here is a real world example.

Why do I have to show my driver's license when I am not driving? Why do I have to give my SSN to anyone but the SS office for SS services? The idea that this makes my identity more secure is nonsense. Look how easy it is to commit identity fraud these days.

My labor is not mine, it is the government's property. They are nice enough to let me keep the 75% they leave in my bank account.

If I do not fill out the voluntary 1040 in April eventually I will have the IRS at my door, they will take the rest of the money they used to leave in my bank account, they may take my house... I would not be guilty of a crime or even charged with a crime, but my life would be ruined and I could be sent to jail. If you don't believe me ask Ed Brown. Plus, what if I don't want the government to know how I earned my money? Why do I have to have something to hide in order to want privacy? I can't even use the 5th amendment to protect myself from self incrimination.

We should be free to make mistakes we should not need the government to wipe our nose for us... Why do we need a seatbelt law? Why should the government assume that I can't save for retirement? I am allowed to drink myself to a stupor, but I cannot take drugs. Now they are thinking of regulating herbal remedies. I would not want to take drugs if they were legal, just like I am not really a drinker, but why do we fill prisons with people who use poor judgment but hurt no one but themselves. I guess it goes back to the tax issue. My health must be the government's property now too.

The most common reason is that otherwise I would be a burden on our health care system. This brings me to my next point. Why do I have to pay for other people's health care anyway? This idea that we are all in this together and that we should be forced to pool our resources affects our freedom. If we all eat from the same tub of popcorn you have a right to meter how much I am eating.

The people who ask you "what freedoms you have lost?" feel that you are singling out the patriot act and GWB. The thing is that this usurping of freedom is a slow grind. All of these little things just build on the old laws. If you put a frog in hot water he will jump out, if you put him in cold water and slowly heat the water he will get boiled and not jump.

The patriot act is so subtle. It adds just enough to other overreaching laws to make them worse. It changes laws that call for a warrant to read, "a warrant or request from emergency assistance".... wait... a request from who? why no warrant? This should concern even people who trust the government.

[inibo]

Thanks, can someone name 2 cases with peoples names that had their rights violated. Like maybe 2 cases where the government went into someones home without a warrant.

One name: José Padilla. He is a U.S. citizen who was imprisoned from June 9, 2002 to January 3, 2006 without charges and without access to an attorney.

[hvac ak47]

I agree and this is how I argued it also.

[Thunderbolt]

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[Thunderbolt]

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[hvac ak47]

Thanks, Im gonna argue eminent domain and free speech zones.

[fsk]

What rights have we lost?


My answer is "All of them".

1. You have lost your right to trial by jury. The Supreme Court has ruled that attorneys may not remind juries of their jury nullification privilege. This was not done by passing a law; it was merely a court ruling. Further, biased jury selection methods repeal trial by jury. Knowledgeable and smart jurors are frequently excluded in favor of jurors who will blindly follow the judge's orders.
2. The right to a free press was lost with concentration of newspaper ownership. Fortunately, the Internet is helping correct this problem.
3. The right to bear arms has been lost. With taxation, regulation, and registration requirements, your right to own a gun has been pretty severely restricted.
4. The right to work and keep the fruits of your labor has been lost, via the income tax. In other words, everyone is a slave.
5. The right to fair money has been lost by the Federal Reserve and fiat money.
6. The right of free speech has been mostly repealed, with restrictions on peaceful protesters.
7. The right to a speedy trial has been repealed, with long drawn-out trials.
8. The right to own property has been repealed. You must pay property taxes (rent) or you lose your property. Further, zoning and environmental restrictions limit what you can do with your property.
9. Common law has been repealed. You can only argue contract law or criminal/military law.
10. When corporations were given the right of property ownership and contract enforcement, that eliminated the ability to hold people accountable for their actions. Further, tort reform has limited the liability of corporate management when they do bad things.
11. The right to health care was repealed, with AMA and government licensing requirements for doctors. Health care is expense because the supply of doctors is limited.
12. The right to representation by an attorney has been repealed. The American Bar Association and the government restrict the supply of attorneys. This guarantees that lawyers are expensive and only available to the wealthy. Whenever a non-attorney tries to give cheap/free legal advice, they are prosecuted for "practicing law without a license".
13. The protection against unreasonable search and seizure has been repealed.
14. The right of habeas corpus has been repealed.
15. The ban on cruel and unusual punishment has been repealed.
16. Licensing requirements for many professions restrict the supply, driving up prices. I already mentioned doctors and lawyers, but it also applies to plumbers, electricians, accountants, and many others.

[bbachtung]

Thanks, can someone name 2 cases with peoples names that had their rights violated. Like maybe 2 cases where the government went into someones home without a warrant.

A federal case in which the feds went in on a "sneak and peek" warrant under the "Patriot" Act is that of Brandon Mayfield, a Portland, Oregon, domestic relations attorney (and former Army Reservist born in Oregon and raised in Kansas) who is a Muslim (he converted). He had his law office and home snuck into, with legal files seized and copied and a keystroke logger installed on his home PC. This was all based on a supposed fingerprint match to one of the terrorists who participated in the Madrid train bombings. He spent several weeks in federal custody, being told that he was a terrorist, threatened with the death penalty, and being denied the ability to see his family or an attorney.

To read MSM coverage, including the "unusual" government apology / settlement:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/29/AR2006112901179.html

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/11/29/mayfield.suit/index.html

[Corydoras]

http://www.aclu.org/privacy/medical/15222res20030530.html
Rights to medical privacy and protection against warrantless search are gone.

[Abobo]

Please stop saying we've "lost" rights. We haven't lost them they have been violated! We are all born with our rights, they can never be taken away from us, they can be violated, they can be abused, but they are still OUR RIGHTS!

We have our rights not because they are in our constitution, or because the government allows us to, we have them because we are human. They are natural human rights.

[fsk]

I have a right to work without having others steal my labor.

If I refuse to pay taxes, then people with guns eventually show up at my door.

That doesn't sound like a right I have.

[nullvalu]

Please stop saying we've "lost" rights. We haven't lost them they have been violated! We are all born with our rights, they can never be taken away from us, they can be violated, they can be abused, but they are still OUR RIGHTS!

We have our rights not because they are in our constitution, or because the government allows us to, we have them because we are human. They are natural human rights.

Very good point.

[they walked in line]

I would recommend that you read any of James Bovard's EXCELLENT books:

The Fair Trade Fraud (http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Trade-Fraud-James-Bovard/dp/0312083440/ref=sr_1_1/104-4204685-2986319?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190265516&sr=1-1)
Lost Rights: The Destruction of American Liberty (http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Rights-Destruction-American-Liberty/dp/0312123337/ref=sr_1_1/104-4204685-2986319?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190265547&sr=1-1)
Freedom in Chains: The Rise of the State and the Demise of the Citizen (http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Chains-State-Demise-Citizen/dp/0312229674/ref=sr_1_1/104-4204685-2986319?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190265586&sr=1-1)
Feeling Your Pain: The Explosion and Abuse of Government Power in the Clinton-Gore Years (http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Your-Pain-Government-Clinton-Gore/dp/031224052X/ref=sr_1_6/104-4204685-2986319?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190265586&sr=1-6)
Terrorism and Tyranny: Trampling Freedom, Justice, and Peace to Rid the World of Evil (http://www.amazon.com/Terrorism-Tyranny-Trampling-Freedom-Justice/dp/1403966826/ref=sr_1_3/104-4204685-2986319?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190265586&sr=1-3)
The Bush Betrayal (http://www.amazon.com/Bush-Betrayal-James-Bovard/dp/1403968519/ref=sr_oe_5_1/104-4204685-2986319?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190265586&sr=1-5)
Attention Deficit Democracy (http://www.amazon.com/Attention-Deficit-Democracy-James-Bovard/dp/140397666X/ref=pd_sim_b_1_img/104-4204685-2986319?ie=UTF8&qid=1190265586&sr=1-5)

[Wendi]

http://www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/4thamend2.jpg (http://www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/picturethis.html)

Click to see 86 people who lost their rights.