PDA

View Full Version : Tricked by the Rotten Missouri Cops




Roxi
04-09-2009, 10:55 AM
So we got pulled over last night my boyfriend was driving.... the reason for pulling us over was we had a headlight out. they ran my bf's info and found out he had a warrant in another county for failure to appear (he was in texas during the court date working on hurricane IKE, contacted a lawyer and the lawyer said it would be 450 or something, can't remember but the court date would be over by the time he got back from texas and lawyer wouldn't appear in court without being paid in full first) so we had forgotten completely about it once jay got back, and that was our own mistake..

so anyway they arrested him and because of the failure to appear they had suspended his drivers license too, which he also got a ticket for.

so once the cop found out he had a warrant, he came back and asked for my ID. which I gave him, because 1st my kid was in the car, 2nd, i didn't feel like losing my job for not being able to show up for work in the morning (I have to open the store, and my manager is out of town for a nickleback concert) I also was on the phone calling my boyfriends dad to see what we could do, the cop instructed me to hang up my phone until the stop was over and place it on the dashboard preventing me from recording what they were doing with my phone camera (i had previously got about 90 seconds of recording when we first got stopped, but had to stop the camera to call his dad when I found out he was being arrested.

he ran my ID and found out my License is also suspended (because of the ridiculous hoops I would have to go through to get it back, and would cost me an arm and a leg to find out i still couldn't have it back anyway for a few years)

so He said "we are going to leave you here with the car, we aren't going to recommend you drive, but we are going to drive north and we won't know whether you drive or not, wink wink"

being as I was about 30 miles from home and about 80 miles from any nearest friends or family and it was already 1 AM and I have to get up at 5:30 am to get olivia on the school bus and get to work by 7, I decided to go ahead and drive myself home. not 5 miles down the road I got pulled over, The officer said he pulled my over for my headlight, and I told him: "my license is suspended, but this is why I'm driving" and explained it to him, he knew all about it and said "the other officer told you not to drive and explained the consequences for doing so" He pretended he was going to arrest me, got on his cell phone and told the person on the other line "oh I'm at a stop trying to figure out how to NOT arrest this person" I started crying (because I didn't have anyone to call at this point and I knew DFS would come get my daughter) so then he said "well its a miracle, I am not going to take you in" but he wrote me a ticket for driving on a suspended license"

It seems to me he never intended on arresting me but only set me up to get this ticket in the first place knowing I had no other option but to drive.

So jay is sitting in jail, and unless we bail him out by 10:00 tonight (which is impossible because they won't let us use a bondsman, its "cash only" he will be extradited to another county and then will sit there til monday or tuesday (whenever they give him a court date)

my question is: is it legal for them to ask for my ID since i was a passenger and not driving? and is it legal for them to make me hang up my phone and put it on the dashboard until the traffic stop was over?

werdd
04-09-2009, 10:59 AM
Wish you could of recorded the part where they told you could drive.

Matt Collins
04-09-2009, 10:59 AM
Get an attorney NOW!!!!

acptulsa
04-09-2009, 10:59 AM
my question is: is it legal for them to ask for my ID since i was a passenger and not driving? and is it legal for them to make me hang up my phone and put it on the dashboard until the traffic stop was over?

Probably not legal for them to demand your i.d., but legal for them to demand you correctly identify yourself and they would have been able to look the info up from that. And as for making you hang up, there's probably some law to that effect; and it's probably old and designed to deal with real threats, too. That said, of course they really just didn't want you recording the encounter or enabling someone to witness it...

Bill M DC
04-09-2009, 11:03 AM
:mad:

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
04-09-2009, 11:04 AM
I honestly have no idea if what they did was legal or not but I am VERY sorry that you had to deal with this.

angelatc
04-09-2009, 11:07 AM
They can ask you to do just about anything they want to. You complied, so that's where you lost the battle.

rockandrollsouls
04-09-2009, 11:08 AM
So we got pulled over last night my boyfriend was driving.... the reason for pulling us over was we had a headlight out. they ran my bf's info and found out he had a warrant in another county for failure to appear (he was in texas during the court date working on hurricane IKE, contacted a lawyer and the lawyer said it would be 450 or something, can't remember but the court date would be over by the time he got back from texas and lawyer wouldn't appear in court without being paid in full first) so we had forgotten completely about it once jay got back, and that was our own mistake..

so anyway they arrested him and because of the failure to appear they had suspended his drivers license too, which he also got a ticket for.

so once the cop found out he had a warrant, he came back and asked for my ID. which I gave him, because 1st my kid was in the car, 2nd, i didn't feel like losing my job for not being able to show up for work in the morning (I have to open the store, and my manager is out of town for a nickleback concert) I also was on the phone calling my boyfriends dad to see what we could do, the cop instructed me to hang up my phone until the stop was over and place it on the dashboard preventing me from recording what they were doing with my phone camera (i had previously got about 90 seconds of recording when we first got stopped, but had to stop the camera to call his dad when I found out he was being arrested.

he ran my ID and found out my License is also suspended (because of the ridiculous hoops I would have to go through to get it back, and would cost me an arm and a leg to find out i still couldn't have it back anyway for a few years)

so He said "we are going to leave you here with the car, we aren't going to recommend you drive, but we are going to drive north and we won't know whether you drive or not, wink wink"

being as I was about 30 miles from home and about 80 miles from any nearest friends or family and it was already 1 AM and I have to get up at 5:30 am to get olivia on the school bus and get to work by 7, I decided to go ahead and drive myself home. not 5 miles down the road I got pulled over, The officer said he pulled my over for my headlight, and I told him: "my license is suspended, but this is why I'm driving" and explained it to him, he knew all about it and said "the other officer told you not to drive and explained the consequences for doing so" He pretended he was going to arrest me, got on his cell phone and told the person on the other line "oh I'm at a stop trying to figure out how to NOT arrest this person" I started crying (because I didn't have anyone to call at this point and I knew DFS would come get my daughter) so then he said "well its a miracle, I am not going to take you in" but he wrote me a ticket for driving on a suspended license"

It seems to me he never intended on arresting me but only set me up to get this ticket in the first place knowing I had no other option but to drive.

So jay is sitting in jail, and unless we bail him out by 10:00 tonight (which is impossible because they won't let us use a bondsman, its "cash only" he will be extradited to another county and then will sit there til monday or tuesday (whenever they give him a court date)

my question is: is it legal for them to ask for my ID since i was a passenger and not driving? and is it legal for them to make me hang up my phone and put it on the dashboard until the traffic stop was over?

No offense, but most of this is your fault. Cops can and will play games and mind tricks to make you think you have to comply with various requests. You willingly gave him your ID, and you willingly drove after you knew you were on thin ice. An attorney can't fight this for you.....you basically did everything wrong in the book. Sorry :(

Disclaimer: I don't condone anything the cops do or the current laws regarding a license to drive, but you aren't going to beat current laws on the books with ideology. Learn the lesson, fight to change the law, and get a real victory.


They can ask you to do just about anything they want to. You complied, so that's where you lost the battle.

You beat me to it.

Roxi
04-09-2009, 11:09 AM
get an attorney NOW!!!!


I will as soon as I start printing money out of my basement :D



Wish you could of recorded the part where they told you could drive.

they didn't tell me to drive, they said "we recommend you DON'T drive, We are driving north this way" yadda yadda, he protected himself in case i was recording



I honestly have no idea if what they did was legal or not but I am VERY sorry that you had to deal with this.


thanks a bunch.... I feel more sorry for him, hes the one sitting in jail :(

Danke
04-09-2009, 11:15 AM
You don't need a government license to operate your personal conveyance if you are not in commerce.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=180736

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/driver_licensing.htm

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/DLbrief.shtml

Roxi
04-09-2009, 11:16 AM
No offense, but most of this is your fault. Cops can and will play games and mind tricks to make you think you have to comply with various requests. You willingly gave him your ID, and you willingly drove after you knew you were on thin ice. An attorney can't fight this for you.....you basically did everything wrong in the book. Sorry :(

Disclaimer: I don't condone anything the cops do or the current laws regarding a license to drive, but you aren't going to beat current laws on the books with ideology. Learn the lesson, fight to change the law, and get a real victory.



You beat me to it.


I hear you... I know this... in my opinion, complying was my only option because my daughter was in the car, and I could not risk my job or her. lots of this is my own fault per se... but getting this stuff taken care of has been made so impossible its not even funny.

the reason my license is suspended is because in 1999 I got a ticket that I never paid, which is my own damn fault, I was an idiot teenager)

in order to get it back I have to drive to St Louis (around 500 miles) turn myself in and get booked... pay a bond, set a court date, return for that court date, and then lose my license for another year (mandatory) then after a year from that date (along with fees being paid) I could take the written and driving tests to get a license. so it would be years and several thousands of dollars to get it taken care of which I do not have, and considering I have never wrecked or hurt anyone, nor do I speed or drive recklessly it really has always seemed ridiculous that I would have to go through all that for a piece of paper that says I am good enough to drive a car.

I don't expect sympathy for any of this really (although its appreciated ;)) I just figured people here would want to hear the story

Minarchy4Sale
04-09-2009, 11:26 AM
You really should consider trying to find a way to get counsel. This is the kind thing that can eventually destroy your life if you keep driving and getting caught... If someone could make this ticket go away, then youve already served out your prior suspension, and its just a matter of money, no?

specsaregood
04-09-2009, 11:28 AM
Missouri cops are ruthless when it comes noticing ANYTHING wrong with a car.....They once gave me a ticket for driving in the lefthand lane on I-70 in the middle of nowhere when there was no cars in the righthand lane. Why was I doing this? The right lane was in horrendous shape at the time, whereas the left lane was smooth as silk....The cop passed going the opposite way on I-70 and did a u-turn through the grassy median, just to pull me over and ticket me for it. When I asked where is "that law?" He responded by telling me the exact page number it was on in the DMV handbook.....That's just one example, I got plenty of them. I suggest you get that headlight fixed asap if you are gonna be in MO for much longer.

mczerone
04-09-2009, 11:37 AM
Lesson: Friends don't let friends go to Nickleback concerts!

rockandrollsouls
04-09-2009, 11:40 AM
You don't need a government license to operate your personal conveyance if you are not in commerce.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=180736

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/driver_licensing.htm

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/DLbrief.shtml

Wrong. Try using those arguments in court and tell me if you win.

He Who Pawns
04-09-2009, 11:42 AM
man, what a rotten deal!!

sorry this happened to you. :(

Danke
04-09-2009, 11:43 AM
Wrong. Try using those arguments in court and tell me if you win.

People winning all the time. I know many who operate cars without driver licenses.

rockandrollsouls
04-09-2009, 11:52 AM
People winning all the time. I know many who operate cars without driver licenses.

You're blowing smoke. Show me the evidence.

fj45lvr
04-09-2009, 11:54 AM
moral of story:

Don't be suspended.....


then NO problems.

and FIX YOUR HEADLIGHT!!

ARealConservative
04-09-2009, 11:58 AM
Wrong. Try using those arguments in court and tell me if you win.

my thoughts exactly.

This is the same failed logic that would allow people to drive on the wrong side of the road, to drink and drive, to not be required to follow posted speed limit signs, or other traffic laws , etc. etc.

high school level libertarian bullshit

Danke
04-09-2009, 11:59 AM
You're blowing smoke. Show me the evidence.

What is your problem?

Did you read any of the court cases in my links?

Come to MN and I will introduce you to people with no tags or licenses.

We also have at least one member here on this Forum that posted his information and pictures of is car.

Ninja Homer
04-09-2009, 12:01 PM
You don't need a government license to operate your personal conveyance if you are not in commerce.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=180736

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/driver_licensing.htm

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/DLbrief.shtml

The problem with that argument is that most people don't really own their vehicles. The state owns the vehicles, and because it's their property they can make you jump through whatever hoops they want to if you want to drive it.

Even if you think you have the title to your vehicle, you probably don't. Most likely it's a "Certificate of Title", which means it's a certificate that represents the title, but it's not the title. The state has the allodial title to the vehicle, which is the real title.

If you have the allodial title to your vehicle, then you can drive it without a driver's license and without license plates. You'll get stopped a lot and have to defend your rights frequently and vigorously, but you can do it.

Danke
04-09-2009, 12:07 PM
The problem with that argument is that most people don't really own their vehicles. The state owns the vehicles, and because it's their property they can make you jump through whatever hoops they want to if you want to drive it.

Even if you think you have the title to your vehicle, you probably don't. Most likely it's a "Certificate of Title", which means it's a certificate that represents the title, but it's not the title. The state has the allodial title to the vehicle, which is the real title.

If you have the allodial title to your vehicle, then you can drive it without a driver's license and without license plates. You'll get stopped a lot and have to defend your rights frequently and vigorously, but you can do it.

In many cases yes, but not all. And that is where the UCC information I posted comes in.

LibertyEagle
04-09-2009, 12:09 PM
Sorry Roxi, that all this is happening. Major bummer. :(

Brian4Liberty
04-09-2009, 12:17 PM
Are you still driving? :eek: Headlight still out? :rolleyes: Tailights?

Better get that (and the license) fixed asap.

Yep, they tricked you. You are guilty of the infraction though. You really don't have a chance to fight it on the grounds of not guilty. I have gotten this type of thing dismissed without going through the whole process. Here's the idea, try at your own risk:

Usually there is the preliminary hearing where you state "guilty/not guilty/no contest". Then your actual court date is scheduled if you say "not guilty".

Instead, say "no contest with explanation". Tell them the story in brief. You weren't driving. Didn't know your license was expired. You were stuck in the middle of the night with kids. Officer implied he would let you drive home that night. Then they pulled you over again.

Best case: they roll their eyes at the tricky officers and dismiss it right there on the spot. You don't have to go back again.
Medium case: fine reduced.
Worst case: have to pay the whole fine.

p.s. You must get the license fixed before going down there.

klamath
04-09-2009, 12:27 PM
You need to take care of these license problems and get it off your back as it will keep coming back and make your life hell when you least need it.
The cop covered his butt when he said he didn't recommend you drive and he was obviously playing a sneaky trick on you.
Fix that headlight so he doesn't have reasonable cause to stop you!

rockandrollsouls
04-09-2009, 12:35 PM
What is your problem?

Did you read any of the court cases in my links?

Come to MN and I will introduce you to people with no tags or licenses.

We also have at least one member here on this Forum that posted his information and pictures of is car.

You're wrong. I'm not arguing with the logic but you're simply not going to find many courts that will follow the logic or agree with it. Maybe in your small state, but I can tell you, and I know you know, that does not happen often and it's few and far between. It's like trying to get a royal flush in poker...good luck.

Roxi
04-09-2009, 12:46 PM
thanks for the words of support and encouragement you guys...


edit: Im not sure my original question was answered though, what right did he have to make me hang up my phone and set it on the dashboard?

klamath
04-09-2009, 12:47 PM
It is easy to say fight it on the grounds that you don't have to have a licence but then again you are not a young mother with a child you don't want put into CPS because you followed somebodies advice to fight it on grounds that have an extremely small chance of winning.

ARealConservative
04-09-2009, 01:02 PM
I guess seeking to prevent children and people with severe mental handicaps from driving on public roads is a usurpation of individual rights.

I am seriously shocked that libertarian thinking struggles so hard to make inroads in Americana /sarcasm

Matt Collins
04-09-2009, 01:57 PM
Lesson: Friends don't let friends go to Nickleback concerts!Yeah really... thank you for saying this. The law of unintended consequences perhaps... :confused::rolleyes:;):p

runningdiz
04-09-2009, 02:06 PM
edit: Im not sure my original question was answered though, what right did he have to make me hang up my phone and set it on the dashboard?

Sorry about what happened but I think that should be the least of your worries. If that was the biggest problem of this entire mess you would be lucky. Right now though it should be the last thing your thinking of. Even if you did record what they said it would get you no where with all of the laws you and your bf violated. Hope you get your bf out of jail and your license situation fixed soon before it turns into an even bigger problem. Sorry it happened :(

Roxi
04-09-2009, 02:40 PM
and bottom line to me is he doesn't deserve to spend 5 days in jail over missing a court date that he couldn't attend because he was working in texas during hurricane IKE.

ARealConservative
04-09-2009, 03:04 PM
and bottom line to me is he doesn't deserve to spend 5 days in jail over missing a court date that he couldn't attend because he was working in texas during hurricane IKE.


5 days is certainly excessive, I will grant you that. Consider the alternative though, If people received a minor slap on the wrist for failing to appear in court, how effective would the court system be?

Please take this critique in the manner it is intended – from a friend. Your argument relies heavily on an emotional response. It doesn’t really matter if he missed his court date because of hurricane Ike, or because he was shacked up with a hooker in Vegas. That he still failed to appear after Ike passed through makes a weak argument even weaker. Judges absolutely hate to hear these type of weak defenses.

angelatc
04-09-2009, 03:09 PM
thanks for the words of support and encouragement you guys...


edit: Im not sure my original question was answered though, what right did he have to make me hang up my phone and set it on the dashboard?

He had the right to ask you to do it. You did it.

pcosmar
04-09-2009, 03:22 PM
I'm very sorry to hear about this, but am afraid I can offer no help.
Common sense and compassion are not job requirements of LE these days.

I will add this to the box that resides in a dark corner of my soul. It is rather full, but I will draw from it in the coming bad days. :(

Dripping Rain
04-09-2009, 03:38 PM
i cried when i got to the last part. i thought they took your daughter. Im glad they didnt touch you or your daughter. thank od for that. hopefully getting your husband out wont be a problem. just get a darn good lawyer

jrich4rpaul
04-09-2009, 04:21 PM
The cop telling you to drive should be on his dashboard cam audio. Can't that be reviewed in court?

Roxi
04-09-2009, 06:45 PM
not sure... by the way, i wasn't asked to put my phone down, i was commanded to, and no i didn't ask "Am I legally bound to do that" I will kiss a cops ass for the sake of my daughter im sorry. dripping rain you have a very kind soul, thank you so much

and you are all correct about the fault lying on us for not getting the stuff taken care of, but it has been made difficult for us, even though we really have tried to get this stuff fixed.

as for dash cam Im not sure how far the audio would reach, but I would imagine it would be admissible in court.



I just called up to the jail to find out more info, I asked the officer if it were possible to give a message to him (keep in mind this is a small podunk town jail) and he said "naaaaah Im not so inclined to do that, it depends on how nice he is" so i said "is he being mean?" and he said "well he sure hasn't been very cooperative with us today"

Im not sure what that means, im going to guess that jay will act the way most of you recommend to act, hes not so inclined to kiss a cops ass as I am.

I think its possible we could get him out sometime tonight after midnight... I couldn't get a bondsman on the first charge (driving while suspended) because we live out of state from where he was picked up. the second one is a cash only bond from another county so they won't release him til at least midnight on the first charge. and then we could get him out after midnight with the cash... Im working on it

trey4sports
04-09-2009, 07:43 PM
roxic, i hate to be the one to be an asshole but....
A. he was summoned to court, that should be his number one priority, and instead he decided to go and help IKE victims (a noble cause). the point is, should we let all people who break the law for noble causes go free?

B. yes, in missouri officers can run the ID of all passengers

pcosmar
04-09-2009, 07:46 PM
roxic, i hate to be the one to be an asshole but....
A. he was summoned to court, that should be his number one priority, and instead he decided to go and help IKE victims (a noble cause). the point is, should we let all people who break the law for noble causes go free?

B. yes, in missouri officers can run the ID of all passengers

And
C. We are living in a F**kin Police State.

fedup100
04-09-2009, 07:53 PM
And
C. We are living in a F**kin Police State.

This^^^

runningdiz
04-09-2009, 07:59 PM
not sure... by the way, i wasn't asked to put my phone down, i was commanded to, and no i didn't ask "Am I legally bound to do that" I will kiss a cops ass for the sake of my daughter im sorry. dripping rain you have a very kind soul, thank you so much

and you are all correct about the fault lying on us for not getting the stuff taken care of, but it has been made difficult for us, even though we really have tried to get this stuff fixed.

as for dash cam Im not sure how far the audio would reach, but I would imagine it would be admissible in court.



I just called up to the jail to find out more info, I asked the officer if it were possible to give a message to him (keep in mind this is a small podunk town jail) and he said "naaaaah Im not so inclined to do that, it depends on how nice he is" so i said "is he being mean?" and he said "well he sure hasn't been very cooperative with us today"

Im not sure what that means, im going to guess that jay will act the way most of you recommend to act, hes not so inclined to kiss a cops ass as I am.

I think its possible we could get him out sometime tonight after midnight... I couldn't get a bondsman on the first charge (driving while suspended) because we live out of state from where he was picked up. the second one is a cash only bond from another county so they won't release him til at least midnight on the first charge. and then we could get him out after midnight with the cash... Im working on it

wow! I really hope you can get him out. That would be some good news. Cops are such assholes though. "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Roxi
04-09-2009, 08:37 PM
roxic, i hate to be the one to be an asshole but....
A. he was summoned to court, that should be his number one priority, and instead he decided to go and help IKE victims (a noble cause). the point is, should we let all people who break the law for noble causes go free?

B. yes, in missouri officers can run the ID of all passengers

misunderstanding sorry... he was working insurance, not volunteering, thats how he helps pay bills :)

hotbrownsauce
04-09-2009, 10:55 PM
roxic 27... I live in Missouri and I took a constitutional studies class.

In terry v Ohio the supreme court ruled you can have a "Terry Stop" if their is reasonable suspicion of a crime that has or is about to be committed for any and all police federal or state. In this same ruling they said that states can have different laws demanding certain details from people known as "Stop and Identify" laws.

The Federal law as to date is that no federal officer can demand your ID what your doing where your going with out reasonable suspicion nor can they frisk the outside of your body with out reasonable suspicion. Reasonable suspicion was defined in a different court case (Wikipedia it).

State laws vary from state to state. I searched around the Missouri Revised statute and the only "Stop and Identify" law I saw was Chapter 84 Section 710 or just 84.710
link to the statute here
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C000-099/0840000710.HTM

I put the significant part in bold.

1. The members of the police force appointed in pursuance hereof are hereby declared to be officers of the state of Missouri and of the city for which such commissioners are appointed.

2. They shall have power within the city or on public property of the city beyond the corporate limits thereof to arrest, on view, any person they see violating or whom they have reason to suspect of having violated any law of the state or ordinance of the city. They shall have power to arrest and hold, without warrant, for a period of time not exceeding twenty-four hours, persons found within the city or on public property of the city beyond the corporate limits thereof charged with having committed felonies in other states, and who are reported to be fugitives from justice. They shall also have the power to stop any person abroad whenever there is reasonable ground to suspect that he is committing, has committed or is about to commit a crime and demand of him his name, address, business abroad and whither he is going. When stopping or detaining a suspect, they may search him for a dangerous weapon whenever they have reasonable ground to believe they are in danger from the possession of such dangerous weapon by the suspect. No unreasonable force shall be used in detaining or arresting any person, but such force as may be necessary may be used when there is no other apparent means of making an arrest or preventing an escape and only after the peace officer has made every reasonable effort to advise the person that he is the peace officer engaged in making arrest.

In essence it appears the Missouri law is that NO you do not have to offer up your drivers license or tell them your business nor are you guilty by association. Don't forget the 5th amendment says you can not incriminate yourself. At any point in time if your being arrested you can tell the police you will not tell them anything until you have spoken to your lawyer. They then legally have to stop asking you questions. (I forget the court case exactly.)

hotbrownsauce
04-09-2009, 11:00 PM
B. yes, in missouri officers can run the ID of all passengers

Please site where you are getting that information. THANKS! :) (I know you live in MO too.)

Zera
04-09-2009, 11:04 PM
I have a feeling that if you had refused to show your license and he went away, he probably would have called a buddy of his to follow you and pull you over any way when you started to drive. So, in the end, you may have been in the same situation, or perhaps worse since your child was there.

rockandrollsouls
04-09-2009, 11:12 PM
roxic, i hate to be the one to be an asshole but....
A. he was summoned to court, that should be his number one priority, and instead he decided to go and help IKE victims (a noble cause). the point is, should we let all people who break the law for noble causes go free?

B. yes, in missouri officers can run the ID of all passengers

Thank you for using common sense and speaking with reason.

nayjevin
04-10-2009, 12:28 AM
Roxi doesn't have all the details.

I missed the court date because the lawyer I had secured to appear for me did not show up.

However, all else was calculated risk on my part. No doubt when I drove I knew I was illegal.

Funny, the insurance company still thinks I'm safe enough to insure for $100/ month :D

Cops followed the rules, that's no problem. They operate on policy, and if given leeway, they tend to abuse it. That's why I'm not pissed when I don't get a warning.

No sympathy needed here.

Thanks abunch for the info, hotbrownsauce, that's good stuff. Others, too.

As far as not being cooperative, that's a funny story. I actually kissed some MAJOR ass the whole way through. I've been the guy on the ground screaming Rodney King before and that didn't get me anywhere.

When breakfast was brought to the cell (where there were 3 of us) I was not awake. When the jailer came to pick up the trash from breakfast, I woke up, went to the door, and asked, 'Is one of these for me to eat?'. The jailer said, 'hand me the trash.' So I said, 'I don't know which ones are trash, is one for me to eat?' So she said, 'you better figure out the rules around here pretty quick.' so I said, 'Are they posted somewhere that I can learn them?' and she said 'hand me the trash' so I figured out the 2 meals (closed styrofoam containers) hadn't been eaten and handed them to her and said 'is this one for me to eat?' and she said, 'you mean you haven't eaten yet?'

so, this is the one uncooperative thing i said:

'you're a smart one, aren't you?'

the following 14 hours there were rumblings from the other room about 'that nevin guy' and 3 different officers came into the cell later to say something in the vein of 'gonna eat dinner aren't you mr. nevin?' and 'gettin hungry mr. nevin?'

the usual 'gotta have the last word' type 70 IQ thug brutes. I was nice from then on out, even smiling and looking the lady in the eye later.

The arresting officer was actually pretty cool. He wouldn't talk about my Ron Paul bumper sticker but he did make it clear he didn't like what Obama is doing about guns.

He is a concealed carry guy and says 'I want to be a normal guy and not take my job home with me -- but I might be the one to stop a damn school shooting!'

Cowlesy
04-10-2009, 12:35 AM
crazyness dude....glad to see you're safe and out of the slammer.

JoshLowry
04-10-2009, 12:39 AM
Hooray, Jay is free! Welcome back to the LF time prison!

nayjevin
04-10-2009, 12:44 AM
I have a feeling that if you had refused to show your license and he went away, he probably would have called a buddy of his to follow you and pull you over any way when you started to drive. So, in the end, you may have been in the same situation, or perhaps worse since your child was there.

yeah, or something similar.

the fact is, guilty until proven innocent in this country.

the solution, IMO, is give the state what the state wants, and work to change laws legally. rarely does a wisely chosen battle occur AFTER arrest.

EDIT: in these small time traffic matters especially

nayjevin
04-10-2009, 12:45 AM
crazyness dude....glad to see you're safe and out of the slammer.


Hooray, Jay is free! Welcome back to the LF time prison!

heheh thanks, guys!

nayjevin
04-10-2009, 12:49 AM
another funny story... my first cellmate was straight outta Deliverance.

me: 'Hey, I'm Jay.'

him: 'ya?'

me: 'So what'd they falsely accuse you of?'

him (southern drawl): 'I did it. Disciplined mah teenage daughtah. Slapped her right in tha mouth.'

me: 'Oooooooooooooooooooook...... I'm gonna sit over here in the corner quietly, if that's okay with you........' :)

JoshLowry
04-10-2009, 12:50 AM
Haha! Glad to hear you're alive. I won't ask how the showers went.

nayjevin
04-10-2009, 01:10 AM
Haha! Glad to hear you're alive. I won't ask how the showers went.

I came home dirty. so dirty

lol j/k

Pepsi
04-10-2009, 01:25 AM
Have a number for a tow truck next time.

Objectivist
04-10-2009, 01:43 AM
To everyone here I give you some knowledge for free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

ewizacft
04-10-2009, 01:59 AM
B. yes, in missouri officers can run the ID of all passengers

And the deception, that is the law, continues.

nayjevin
04-10-2009, 02:23 AM
And the deception, that is the law, continues.

i thought hotbrownsauce dubunked that quite well?

LibertyEagle
04-10-2009, 02:50 AM
Welcome home, Jay. :)

hotbrownsauce
04-10-2009, 04:08 AM
i thought hotbrownsauce dubunked that quite well?

I dunno if I fully debunked it... I searched around google, I searched the Missouri statute for keywords and I posted the only thing I found. Perhaps I missed something (it is possible) which is why I was asking Trey. Even so I am fairly certain on this because I think my constitutional studies teacher last year in college told me that you don't have to show them your ID. We watched a movie called Busted or something like that.

1.) never test a cop in their "jurisdiction".
2.) If the situation calls for it always get their name and Badge Number. It is your right to know and they must give it to you. I've only had to do this once, long story short I waited till they were about to leave and done with the "investigation" and got their badge numbers. They laughed at me and asked why. I asked are you saying that I can't have your badge number? If you get their name and badge they'll be more likely to think twice next time before they do questionable activity.
3.) Assert you know your rights. When a cop knows they aren't dealing with an every day "dummy" they are less likely to sass you. (Know when to shut up, be nice, assert you know your rights, keep telling them your name, where you live, and ask if your free to go and that you have no other information to give the officer. Ask if your being detained.) I've video recorded a cop right in front of me stopping us. He told me to stop. I told him I have a protected right to film anyone in public and he couldn't stop me. They were baffled and talked to me by this time there were 5 officers. One said why are you filming? Police ever mess with me? I said no, but I have the right to film and I was being nice to the cop and stopped. They backed down and probably will remember me next time they pull me over.
4.) I carry around my ACLU card right in the front of my wallet so they see it when I open up my wallet for my ID. "AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION"
5.) I am always, always! prepared to record. I use my cell phone, camera, and hand held voice recorder. One time I was pulled over and the voice recorder was probably where the officer could see. He was nice to me and just wrote me a ticket for "no seat belt" even though I had it on.. It was better than a speeding ticket.

Roxi
04-10-2009, 10:33 AM
speaking of, when i got the ticket for DWS after they pulled me over, the ink didn't go through to the carbon, he said that didn't matter, when he tore the ticket off the sheet it ripped through the ticket number... he said "you won't need that" I made him write it down anyway on the ticket "in case i got a lawyer and he needed it"

arghhh

pinkmandy
04-10-2009, 10:45 AM
I'm sorry, Roxic. I would have done the same with my kids in the car. Not complying could have gotten you in cuffs and your dd in foster care where God knows what could happen to her there or if it would have been easy or not to get her back. There are parents who've lost their kids for years in that mess for doing nothing wrong other than running into a vindictive social worker. CPS is the ultimate tool to use against parents.

You can be arrested for exercising your rights, win a lawsuit and that's over. Get your kids taken away and it could take years to get them back. If you do at all.

(((hugs))) to you. I wish I had some decent advice. Just know I feel for you.

heavenlyboy34
04-10-2009, 10:48 AM
http://quotesarcade.com/comments/friendship/friendship_quotes_comments_01.gif

Be well, OP. I'm hoping everything works out well for you and Jay in this. :(

james1906
04-10-2009, 10:15 PM
If a cop leaves a woman and her children on the side of the road at night and the only means out of the situation is to drive illegally, couldn't that be entrapment?

pinkmandy
04-10-2009, 10:37 PM
If a cop leaves a woman and her children on the side of the road at night and the only means out of the situation is to drive illegally, couldn't that be entrapment?

That's an excellent point. They were neither protecting nor serving. Can charges be filed against the cops for leaving you like that with the kids?

I'm wondering this as I did break down once, middle of the day at that, and a state trooper saw me. He pulled over and asked if everything was okay (very nicely) then sat behind me for 45 minutes until my then boyfriend arrived. Once he got there he just waved and drove off.

Or maybe they were just more polite in the 90's.

james1906
04-10-2009, 10:46 PM
That's an excellent point. They were neither protecting nor serving. Can charges be filed against the cops for leaving you like that with the kids?

I'm wondering this as I did break down once, middle of the day at that, and a state trooper saw me. He pulled over and asked if everything was okay (very nicely) then sat behind me for 45 minutes until my then boyfriend arrived. Once he got there he just waved and drove off.

Or maybe they were just more polite in the 90's.

That was the 90s when 'community oriented policing' was the trend and the police had substations in the malls where kids would pick up coloring books about the dangers of drugs. This is the post-9/11 police, where it's all about kicking ass and taking names.

Dequeant
04-10-2009, 11:20 PM
...............

Danke
04-10-2009, 11:24 PM
Is it legal for a cop to ask you for your license? It's legal for him to ASK you to strip down naked and dance in the street......it doesn't mean you have to oblige.



Yep.


You're blowing smoke. Show me the evidence.




high school level libertarian bullshit

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Bman
04-10-2009, 11:42 PM
Roxic I woudl get your license suspension stuff taken care of a.s.a.p and then call the officer to see if he would drop the charges.

fj45lvr
04-11-2009, 01:27 AM
here's a little tip:


buy a Triple AAA PLUS memberhip (probably about $100 dollars depending on where you live)... they offer FREE TOWING up to 100 miles....

I heard of a guy that would travel out to the "big city" and drink too much and used this service to get him and his car back home!!! (talk about abusing the system).

Mattsa
04-11-2009, 06:09 PM
So we got pulled over last night my boyfriend was driving.... the reason for pulling us over was we had a headlight out. they ran my bf's info and found out he had a warrant in another county for failure to appear (he was in texas during the court date working on hurricane IKE, contacted a lawyer and the lawyer said it would be 450 or something, can't remember but the court date would be over by the time he got back from texas and lawyer wouldn't appear in court without being paid in full first) so we had forgotten completely about it once jay got back, and that was our own mistake..

so anyway they arrested him and because of the failure to appear they had suspended his drivers license too, which he also got a ticket for.

so once the cop found out he had a warrant, he came back and asked for my ID. which I gave him, because 1st my kid was in the car, 2nd, i didn't feel like losing my job for not being able to show up for work in the morning (I have to open the store, and my manager is out of town for a nickleback concert) I also was on the phone calling my boyfriends dad to see what we could do, the cop instructed me to hang up my phone until the stop was over and place it on the dashboard preventing me from recording what they were doing with my phone camera (i had previously got about 90 seconds of recording when we first got stopped, but had to stop the camera to call his dad when I found out he was being arrested.

he ran my ID and found out my License is also suspended (because of the ridiculous hoops I would have to go through to get it back, and would cost me an arm and a leg to find out i still couldn't have it back anyway for a few years)

so He said "we are going to leave you here with the car, we aren't going to recommend you drive, but we are going to drive north and we won't know whether you drive or not, wink wink"

being as I was about 30 miles from home and about 80 miles from any nearest friends or family and it was already 1 AM and I have to get up at 5:30 am to get olivia on the school bus and get to work by 7, I decided to go ahead and drive myself home. not 5 miles down the road I got pulled over, The officer said he pulled my over for my headlight, and I told him: "my license is suspended, but this is why I'm driving" and explained it to him, he knew all about it and said "the other officer told you not to drive and explained the consequences for doing so" He pretended he was going to arrest me, got on his cell phone and told the person on the other line "oh I'm at a stop trying to figure out how to NOT arrest this person" I started crying (because I didn't have anyone to call at this point and I knew DFS would come get my daughter) so then he said "well its a miracle, I am not going to take you in" but he wrote me a ticket for driving on a suspended license"

It seems to me he never intended on arresting me but only set me up to get this ticket in the first place knowing I had no other option but to drive.

So jay is sitting in jail, and unless we bail him out by 10:00 tonight (which is impossible because they won't let us use a bondsman, its "cash only" he will be extradited to another county and then will sit there til monday or tuesday (whenever they give him a court date)

my question is: is it legal for them to ask for my ID since i was a passenger and not driving? and is it legal for them to make me hang up my phone and put it on the dashboard until the traffic stop was over?

I'm British, but US legislation is very similiar to UK legislation

The important thing to remember here is that you have not personally committed any crime and no laws have been broken by you.

You have to make a distinction here between US law (Constitution) and Admiralty Law (contract).

You need to get on the internet and discover what your rights are and be able to differentiate between legislation and law because the two things are very different.

Good luck

(Check out Rob Menard and Winston Shrout in the internet)

angelatc
04-11-2009, 06:31 PM
not sure... by the way, i wasn't asked to put my phone down, i was commanded to, and no i didn't ask "Am I legally bound to do that" I will kiss a cops ass for the sake of my daughter im sorry. dripping rain you have a very kind soul, thank you so much


I know, and I would have done the same thing. They use that against us, as you can see. They're bullies, not servants.

nayjevin
04-11-2009, 06:46 PM
Welcome home, Jay. :)

Thanks :)


Roxic I woudl get your license suspension stuff taken care of a.s.a.p and then call the officer to see if he would drop the charges.

priority #1, thanks.