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He Who Pawns
04-09-2009, 09:12 AM
So, for the first time in over 200 years, pirates have attacked a US-flagged vessel. I'll tell what; if we make an example of these idiots and pump them full of hot lead, it will be another 200 years before any try again.

The reason pirates don't F with US-flagged boats now is because our country used to go out and hunt pirates down in the open seas.

IMO, the FBI should not be the ones there "negotiating". The only discussion that is needed is between Navy Seals deciding what kind of ammo to use to turn these clowns into swiss cheese.

pcosmar
04-09-2009, 09:14 AM
Letters of Marque and Reprisal,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque

And it's Constitutional.

He Who Pawns
04-09-2009, 09:17 AM
In the case of a US flagged ship being attacked, I think the Navy is authorized to kick ass, right?

Kludge
04-09-2009, 09:22 AM
Warring against pirates is the equivalent to warring against terrorism or crime.

If a U.S. ship is attacked, then that ship has justification to defend itself, but to seek out combat against an always-replenishing enemy is foolish.

He Who Pawns
04-09-2009, 09:26 AM
Warring against pirates is the equivalent to warring against terrorism or crime.

If a U.S. ship is attacked, then that ship has justification to defend itself, but to seek out combat against an always-replenishing enemy is foolish.

Well, our guys need targets for training, right?

Kludge
04-09-2009, 09:34 AM
Well, our guys need targets for training, right?

God damn you! Gah! Are you fucking serious!? Are you seriously so unable to empathize that you're justifying murder so that our soldiers can have an opportunity to train?

He Who Pawns
04-09-2009, 09:36 AM
God damn you! Gah! Are you fucking serious!? Are you seriously so unable to empathize that you're justifying murder so that our soldiers can have an opportunity to train?

Well, if someone is trying to steal another's property (ie boat and cargo or money in ransom) then we are justified to protect that property. Lock and load!

constituent
04-09-2009, 09:46 AM
Well, if someone is trying to steal another's property (ie boat and cargo or money in ransom) then we are justified to protect that property. Lock and load!

no, they are justified in protecting that property, and you shouldn't tax me to pay for it. there is no "we."

pcosmar
04-09-2009, 09:56 AM
Well, our guys need targets for training, right?

Once again you prove that you just don't get it. :(

Jeremy
04-09-2009, 10:01 AM
It's not like the Navy can sail over there and the pirates will be waiting for them. Wouldn't you have to catch them in action...

steph3n
04-09-2009, 10:06 AM
fix is easy, allow all these nations merchant marines to carry weapons, large caliber firearms and the like. Easy fix.

He Who Pawns
04-09-2009, 10:23 AM
It's not like the Navy can sail over there and the pirates will be waiting for them. Wouldn't you have to catch them in action...

well they've got 3 of them sitting in a lifeboat with no gas right now, holding a crew member "hostage" while a huge Navy warships looms over them. why don't our snipers simply take them out to teach a lesson to other would-be pirates?

He Who Pawns
04-09-2009, 10:24 AM
fix is easy, allow all these nations merchant marines to carry weapons, large caliber firearms and the like. Easy fix.

yep, put 50 cal machine guns on both sides of the boat, and the problem is solved.

werdd
04-09-2009, 10:49 AM
Warring against pirates is the equivalent to warring against terrorism or crime.

If a U.S. ship is attacked, then that ship has justification to defend itself, but to seek out combat against an always-replenishing enemy is foolish.

Jefferson did it. This is how we should of gone after terrorism, and this works. No occupying countrys, just killing pirates/terrorist.

malkusm
04-09-2009, 10:52 AM
Ragnar Danneskjöld...?

Brian4Liberty
04-09-2009, 12:25 PM
fix is easy, allow all these nations merchant marines to carry weapons, large caliber firearms and the like. Easy fix.

Makes too much sense. Plus the laws of the New World Order say that guns are not allowed...

TastyWheat
04-09-2009, 12:42 PM
When you're in international waters you're responsible for your own safety (unless you hire protection).

steph3n
04-09-2009, 12:44 PM
When you're in international waters you're responsible for your own safety (unless you hire protection).
in that strait, you can't be in international waters much, you are in other counties jurisdiction due to the close nature of the waterways to the lands.

Spike
04-09-2009, 01:34 PM
So, for the first time in over 200 years, pirates have attacked a US-flagged vessel. I'll tell what; if we make an example of these idiots and pump them full of hot lead, it will be another 200 years before any try again.

The reason pirates don't F with US-flagged boats now is because our country used to go out and hunt pirates down in the open seas.

IMO, the FBI should not be the ones there "negotiating". The only discussion that is needed is between Navy Seals deciding what kind of ammo to use to turn these clowns into swiss cheese.

You're obviously very ignorant of this issue. It's more complicated than some bad guys on ships killing good guys on ships. You gotta understand the background of the Somali situation, its regional politics, etc. It's not so black and white. Don't get me wrong, they're a bunch of gangsters who need to be checked but you have to tackle the issue systemically rather than just firing off at a few pirates. Since the early 90's private companies have been dumping nuclear toxic waste in Somali waters at the behest of governments, so Somali fishermen turned aggressive and started hijacking these ships that dumped this waste into their waters and killed their livelihood. What were they supposed to do? Simply back off and watch all the fish die? ....It's more complicated now, and some of these pirates are a new breed who are just out for their private gain. Point is, you gotta stop dumping nuclear toxic waste in other people's property.

Check out this interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTxJLlQCe4U

Mini-Me
04-09-2009, 01:45 PM
fix is easy, allow all these nations merchant marines to carry weapons, large caliber firearms and the like. Easy fix.

Wait...there are actually laws that prohibit merchant ships from defending themselves?!? :eek:

steph3n
04-09-2009, 02:41 PM
Wait...there are actually laws that prohibit merchant ships from defending themselves?!? :eek:

from my understanding yes. I was discussing it with someone and they referenced a treaty or maritime, but i am not fully sure on it.

http://www.maritime-connector.com/NewsDetails/1922/lang/English/Naval-call-to-arm-merchant-ships.wshtml

here's form NYT in 1914-> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9D06E3D7113FE633A25752C2A96F9C94 6596D6CF

more recent:
http://features.csmonitor.com/globalnews/2009/04/08/to-stop-pirates-do-ships-need-firepower/


My understanding is that it is not the international waters as much as it is when you are within the other nations waters they may prohibit weapons being onboard and arrest the crews if found. By and large these are cargo ships, they have to dock or be within the 12-25 miles of a nation to load cargo be it containers, oil, or whatever else.

He Who Pawns
04-09-2009, 03:09 PM
You're obviously very ignorant of this issue. It's more complicated than some bad guys on ships killing good guys on ships. You gotta understand the background of the Somali situation, its regional politics, etc. It's not so black and white. Don't get me wrong, they're a bunch of gangsters who need to be checked but you have to tackle the issue systemically rather than just firing off at a few pirates. Since the early 90's private companies have been dumping nuclear toxic waste in Somali waters at the behest of governments, so Somali fishermen turned aggressive and started hijacking these ships that dumped this waste into their waters and killed their livelihood. What were they supposed to do? Simply back off and watch all the fish die? ....It's more complicated now, and some of these pirates are a new breed who are just out for their private gain. Point is, you gotta stop dumping nuclear toxic waste in other people's property.

Check out this interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTxJLlQCe4U

I don't give a fuck what their excuses are. If I was in command of that Navy ship, I would order my snipers to blow their fucking heads off. End of story.

steph3n
04-09-2009, 03:24 PM
I don't give a fuck what their excuses are. If I was in command of that Navy ship, I would order my snipers to blow their fucking heads off. End of story.

the life boat is covered and protected from sniper fire....according to spokesman. I somewhat doubt a FLIR and some other high tech tools would have much trouble along with a .50 cal but I guess there is a risk of hitting the hostage in that case. It has to be so coordinated to not leave one standing except the hostage.

He Who Pawns
04-09-2009, 03:25 PM
the life boat is covered and protected from sniper fire....according to spokesman. I somewhat doubt a FLIR and some other high tech tools would have much trouble along with a .50 cal but I guess there is a risk of hitting the hostage in that case.

oh, is one of those submarine looking lifeboats?

steph3n
04-09-2009, 03:25 PM
oh, is one of those submarine looking lifeboats?
like a surface sub.

steph3n
04-09-2009, 03:28 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2007/10/03/nl-ferry-lifeboat-20070927.jpg

like this.

ashura
04-09-2009, 03:31 PM
no, they are justified in protecting that property, and you shouldn't tax me to pay for it. there is no "we."

Amen, brother.

He Who Pawns
04-09-2009, 03:33 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2007/10/03/nl-ferry-lifeboat-20070927.jpg

like this.

yeah. well, lol, i guess that rules out sniping. i guess it's obviously just a matter of time. the question is, what will happen to these idiots? they need to be severely punished, or there will be no disincentive to further piracy aimed at US vessels. killing them on sight would be the best, but if they are in that type of lifeboat, i guess they will have to accept their surrender.

Nate K
04-09-2009, 03:34 PM
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/mockingbird

watch this video and you will learn how to deal with pirates.

almantimes2
04-09-2009, 03:41 PM
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/mockingbird

watch this video and you will learn how to deal with pirates.

rofl

Kludge
04-09-2009, 03:47 PM
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/mockingbird

watch this video and you will learn how to deal with pirates.

That is... comedic genius!!!

Chieftain1776
04-09-2009, 04:25 PM
When you're in international waters you're responsible for your own safety (unless you hire protection).

This^. I would only add a quote from another thread:

"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." ~ Smedley Butler (http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm)

donnay
04-09-2009, 04:46 PM
Wait...there are actually laws that prohibit merchant ships from defending themselves?!? :eek:


They Merchant Mariners are considered to be "civilians" therefore, they are NOT allowed to be armed because of many international laws. If Congress wrote a letter of Marque for the Merchant ships that would help. But as usual our congress are lame ducks.

During WWII Merchant ships used to have gun lockers aboard, the Captain and the next in command had access to, if need be.

The bottom line is, the UN want us unarmed.

There is already a thread that address all these issues here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=187783&page=5).

angelatc
04-09-2009, 05:35 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2007/10/03/nl-ferry-lifeboat-20070927.jpg

like this.

What would James Bond do?

First, get a big net. Send a couple of divers to run the net under the sub. Then a helicopter can just pick the whole thing up and move it onto the deck of a Navy warship.

anaconda
04-09-2009, 06:18 PM
In the case of a US flagged ship being attacked, I think the Navy is authorized to kick ass, right?

Need Letters of Marque & Reprisal, I believe.

jkm1864
04-09-2009, 06:39 PM
Easy pass a law where all US merchant marines need to be armed. I could see it now .50 caliber guns mounted on the hull for emergencies. Now when the pirates approach in their little crap boats You blow them out of the water and sink them... The solution is a easy one but like usual its illegal to have guns on US merchant vessels.

jkm1864
04-09-2009, 06:43 PM
Every year oil field workers get hijacked because they are not allowed to protect themselves. All these pirates want is money and these corporations keep feeding them money. Now if these same people could defend themselves it would be a different story indeed. Oh and btw this happens a lot and just because its not on the news doesn't mean its not going on.

jkm1864
04-09-2009, 06:44 PM
Oh yes and I have personally talked to people that this has happened too btw .... The oil field is a small place.

Imperial
04-09-2009, 07:28 PM
Jefferson did it. This is how we should of gone after terrorism, and this works. No occupying countrys, just killing pirates/terrorist.

I think Jefferson specifically sought authorization from Congress to destroy the navy of the Barbary pirates. He never actually took a city though. Instead, he used a show of strength to bow the leaders into a compromise.

steph3n
04-10-2009, 12:53 AM
They are in the ocean, the ocean has waves which carries the boat up and down, up and down, they have no clear shot, it would be foolish, there were 4 armed men who came on board against 21 unarmed men, if they wanted a fight they would've killed them all, they just wanted money, and now they've back themselves in a corner and will surrender soon. No need for unnecessary deaths.

The coast guard uses snipers to shoot cuban speedboats smuggling drugs and humans in at over 100mph......from a helicopter. It's not that big of a deal.

He Who Pawns
04-10-2009, 01:03 AM
Easy pass a law where all US merchant marines need to be armed. I could see it now .50 caliber guns mounted on the hull for emergencies. Now when the pirates approach in their little crap boats You blow them out of the water and sink them... The solution is a easy one but like usual its illegal to have guns on US merchant vessels.

Two 50 cals, mounted on either side of a ship, would do the job. Those things have a long range and pack a huge punch. The pirates would GTFO of town if a 50 cal opened up on them.

muzzled dogg
04-10-2009, 03:03 PM
Letters of Marque and Reprisal,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque

And it's Constitutional.

.^^^^^^^^^^^^^

james1906
04-10-2009, 11:05 PM
I don't know what Egyptian laws are in regards to weapons on ships, but it's not exactly a very pro-freedom country. The only solution is to have Israel build a competing canal that would cut through some prime Eilat real estate.

damania
04-12-2009, 01:40 AM
I think all the news sources and people have missed the mark on these pirates. Read about the insurance scam and the illegal fishing and toxic dumping off the Somali coast here:

You won't see this story anywhere else!

http://www.askbutwhy.com/2009/04/pirates-of-arabian-real-story-behind.html

He Who Pawns
04-12-2009, 09:09 AM
Who gives a fuck what the pirates' excuses are?

nayjevin
04-12-2009, 09:30 AM
...

Spike
04-12-2009, 09:37 AM
Who gives a fuck what the pirates' excuses are?

They are not excuses.


That's the same type of response British generals gave when they found out the colonies were rebelling. Grievances and excuses are two different things.

Point is, the pirates have some justice. What if China dumped toxic waste and spoiled the livelihood of the people living off the coast of the Gulf of Mexico and America was a poor nation with no navy? I' bet you support the actions of the pirates.

He Who Pawns
04-12-2009, 09:52 AM
What a crock. What did that boat that was pirated have to do with any of this? It was in international waters.