White House DENIES bow to king! [Archive] - Ron Paul Forums / Liberty Forest

angelatc

04-09-2009, 08:10 AM

At least he didn't kiss him

In Saudi Arabia, that's considered a culturally correct greeting. As far as protocol goes, Bush was absolutely correct with this.

Bowing is an indicator of subservience, like a dog that rolls over and exposes an underbelly. Only the subjects of a king bow to a king.

Furthermore, American protocol is that a president absolutely never defers to any man. Obama should fire Kumar and hire Miss Manners.

Jeremy

04-09-2009, 08:12 AM

acptulsa

04-09-2009, 08:18 AM

Then what does the Japanese leader do to him?

I don't know, but I intend to avoid him.

angelatc

04-09-2009, 08:20 AM

Then what does the Japanese leader do to him?

I'll look it up, but I remember Clinton catching a rash of sh*t for almost bowing to the Japanese leader.

ETA: OK - I looked it up. Now If PResident Obaba is reading this I would encourage him to do a little more research, but the bowing thing is tricky. In the Saudi world, it clearly signifies subservience, and was utterly wrong. The Muslim papers are chattering like crazy about it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/07/barack-takes-a-bow/

Article I Section 9 of the Constitution forbids titles of nobility and stipulates that no officeholder or government employee may "accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state" without the consent of Congress. Judith Martin wrote in her Miss Manners column in 2001 that bowing "is not an ordinary bit of foreign etiquette one might adopt out of courtesy when traveling. ... Americans do not properly bow to any royalty. We show respect for other countries' leaders the same way we do to our own."

In Japan, refusal to return a bow is considered a blatant display of aggression and dominance, so I would guess that the President is supposed to bow, but only soooo slightly.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/07/barack-takes-a-bow/

Press outlets have been conspicuously silent on Mr. Obama's bow. Compare this to the New York Times' reaction when former President Bill Clinton inclined a bit too far when meeting Japanese Emperor Akihito in 1994. According to the Gray Lady, "The image on the South Lawn was indelible: an obsequent president, and the Emperor of Japan." Former President George W. Bush received thorough press attention after being photographed holding hands with then-Crown Prince Abdullah in 2005. "It clearly strikes a nerve," CBS News reported, while David Letterman satirized Mr. Bush as "officially the gayest president since Lincoln." These two cases were tame compared to Mr. Obama's full-out genuflection, which makes us wonder why it is not worthy of comment.

Jeremy

04-09-2009, 08:23 AM

I'll look it up, but I remember Clinton catchingt a rash of sh*t for almost bowing to the Japanese leader.

That's dumb... would the Japanese people be mad if their leader shook hands? :D

angelatc

04-09-2009, 08:44 AM

That's dumb... would the Japanese people be mad if their leader shook hands? :D

It is only dumb if you don't have any respect for the gentle art of protocols and subtle nuances that define us. BUt to answer your question, yes - I suspect the Japanese people would absolutely be furious if their leader gave an unreciprocated bow. Would we be mad if another leader walked deliberately by Obama's outstretched hand?

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/19/weekinreview/the-world-the-president-s-inclination-no-it-wasn-t-a-bow-bow.html

Guests invited to a white-tie state dinner at the White House (a Clinton Administration first) were instructed to address the Emperor as "Your Majesty," not "Your Highness" or, worse, "King." And in what one Administration aide called "some emperor thing," an Army general was cautioned that he should not address the Emperor Akihito at all as he escorted him to the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery.

But the "thou need not bow" commandment from the State Department's protocol office maintained a constancy of more than 200 years. Administration officials scurried to insist that the eager-to-please President had not really done the unthinkable.

"It was not a bow-bow, if you know what I mean," said Ambassador Molly Raiser, the chief of protocol.

Looking at the press reaction that Clinton got for his non-bow bow and the almost no attention Obama's bow got in the mainstream media is very telling about how far the media itself is bending over.

Aratus

04-09-2009, 08:46 AM

it seems to me the "semi-bow" was reciprocated by the queen of england acting so informally to
our first lady, the semi-hug seems to have followed this "semi-bow" that barack obama obviously did!

acptulsa

04-09-2009, 08:49 AM

it seems to me the "semi-bow" was reciprocated by the queen of england acting so informally to
our first lady, the semi-hug seems to have followed this "semi-bow" that barack obama obviously did!

It is quite a reversal of the double standard, compared to once upon a time. Imagine Eisenhower bowing to the king of a sheikdom and Maimie hugging the ailing father of Elizabeth. Or try to imagine it--I can't, myself...

angelatc

04-09-2009, 08:50 AM

it seems to me the "semi-bow" was reciprocated by the queen of england acting so informally to
our first lady, the semi-hug seems to have followed this "semi-bow" that barack obama obviously did!

Two wrongs don't make a right. It actually makes another wrong. Obama bowed to a king, but did not bow to a queen?

Michelle Obama was wrong to touch the Queen. The fact that the Queen responded gracefully speaks volumes to the grace of the Queen. A proper hostess does not acknowledge any breech of etiquette, and actually is supposed to defend the transgressor as to spare them further embarassment.

But it does not in any way absolve Mrs Obama of the faux pas.

angelatc

04-09-2009, 08:55 AM

It is quite a reversal of the double standard, compared to once upon a time. Imagine Eisenhower bowing to the king of a sheikdom and Maimie hugging the ailing father of Elizabeth. Or try to imagine it--I can't, myself...

A Kennedy story mentions that Jackie was instructed not to bow when she met a British royal because heads of state and their wives do not bow to each other.

After her husband died, she again met the royal and gave him a curtsy. The person was with her was surprised, because Mrs. Kennedy was a stickler for such things. She caught his eye and whispered "I am no longer a head of state," which sent people out of the room in tears.

In case it ever comes up, we Americans don't ever have to bow to anybody. But you'll piss off the Japanese guy who wants to do business with you if you don't.

Aratus

04-09-2009, 08:57 AM

a very long long long tyme ago, when jamie monroe was initially sent to be our ambassador
to france, he made the mistake of hugging a member of the french revolutionary committee
in 1794 and then the british were furious at him! a friendly gesture that perhaps stabilized
an interum gov't actually was not an approval gesture for the bloody reign of terror. the tories
in the U.K did not see anything positive in what monroe innocently did on the spur of the moment...

we have often told the british we aren't into titles. obama seems to be more flexible and less
rigid and i did think he was not being so stuffy or formal. i do admit this flies against a tradition...

Ninja Homer

04-09-2009, 09:00 AM

"It wasn't a bow. He grasped his hand with two hands, and he's taller than King Abdullah," said an Obama aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

White House FAIL
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4941/obamabow.jpg

Kludge

04-09-2009, 09:00 AM

A thread for whether or not Obama bowed to a king...? Really...?

I would have bowed. Kings are pretty badass. Some of England's kings were pretty progressive in realizing that government is not greater than the sum of its people, as shown by the English Charter of Liberties issued way back in 1100.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Liberties

Anwar_S

04-09-2009, 09:24 AM

In Saudi Arabia, that's considered a culturally correct greeting. As far as protocol goes, Bush was absolutely correct with this.

Bowing is an indicator of subservience, like a dog that rolls over and exposes an underbelly. Only the subjects of a king bow to a king.

Furthermore, American protocol is that a president absolutely never defers to any man. Obama should fire Kumar and hire Miss Manners.

Your correct, kissing on the cheek is the correct way to greet someone if they are a friend or family member. A handshake will do if they are an aquantance.

As far as bowing, I've never seen anyone bow to the king. It's ussually a slight tilt of the head but this only extends to citizens not heads of other countries.

I think in the effort of trying to make a good first impression with King Abdullah Obama just made cultural faux pas. Muslims don't really care, its not as big of a deal as everyone is making it out to be.

Can we go back to critisizing policies now? :p

RonPaulFanInGA

04-09-2009, 10:30 AM

He DENIES it?

It's like the Bush administration is back: lying about the obvious.

Don't they know there are videos of this all over the internet that people can seek out? How brazen can they be?

acptulsa

04-09-2009, 10:36 AM

How brazen can they be?

:eek::eek: Don't ask that!! :eek::eek:

angelatc

04-09-2009, 11:01 AM

He DENIES it?

It's like the Bush administration is back: lying about the obvious.

Don't they know there are videos of this all over the internet that people can seek out? How brazen can they be?

That's what really steams me. If they hadn't acknowledged it, we could have speculated that it was an intentional gesture of peace or submission, depending on which conspiracy theorist was speaking.

We could have assumed that it was a goof but he wasn't going to admit to it.

Instead, after a trip where he told the rest of the world that we Americans were arrogant, he came home and tells us that we're stupid, too.

HOLLYWOOD

04-09-2009, 12:12 PM

Just released from the Obama WHITE HOUSE administration:

Spokesman Robert Gibbs said, Barack Obama Dropped a Contact Lens...

Chief of Staff, Rahm Emanuel said, Barack Obama shoelace was untied and almost tripped...

Kieth Olbermann stated that Barack Obama was bending over to... "Take One for the Team/America"

Didn't the protocol puppets inform the ORACLE how to present himself in Public or "when in Rome"? Sounds like the PuppetMasters will be upset with the department of Propaganda not coordinating all this correctly.

Who said Puppets are intelligent? :rolleyes:

jrich4rpaul

04-09-2009, 12:14 PM

A thread for whether or not Obama bowed to a king...? Really...?[/url]

That isn't the point, it's the administration trying to say he didn't, that he just bent down because he was taller, and grabbed the king's hands with both of his.

Obama bowed, it's caught on tape, and they refuse to just say he did. More proof that might just help the Obama zombies open their eyes one day.

JK/SEA

04-09-2009, 12:49 PM

Well, if he's not really the President, then this is really a moot issue.

A. Havnes

04-09-2009, 01:24 PM

I'll look it up, but I remember Clinton catching a rash of sh*t for almost bowing to the Japanese leader.

ETA: OK - I looked it up. Now If PResident Obaba is reading this I would encourage him to do a little more research, but the bowing thing is tricky. In the Saudi world, it clearly signifies subservience, and was utterly wrong. The Muslim papers are chattering like crazy about it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/07/barack-takes-a-bow/

In Japan, refusal to return a bow is considered a blatant display of aggression and dominance, so I would guess that the President is supposed to bow, but only soooo slightly.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/07/barack-takes-a-bow/

The Japanese have very different bows, depending on whom they're addressing. If your own bow is deeper than than the other person's, it signifies great respect and acknowledges that they are of a higher standing than you. Pure submission is when you kneel, almost prostate, on the ground with your forehead touching your fingertips.
Both of these would be inappropriate, but I can see Obama blundering there as well.
However, if he didn't bow at all, the Japanese present would probably just write it off as Obama being a foreigner.

And, yes, I think he did indeed bow in front of the king.

sdczen

04-09-2009, 01:52 PM

Looks like a bow to me. In fact, it appears that Big O' was trying to kiss the ring of the King!

Mani

04-09-2009, 02:46 PM

White House FAIL
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4941/obamabow.jpg

Are you sure that's his Left HAND???

Smoke the Liberty Tree

04-09-2009, 03:02 PM

White House FAIL
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4941/obamabow.jpg

that is a bow, no if ands or buts about it. It even looks as if he is going to kiss his hand/ring.....WTF???

MyLibertyStuff

04-09-2009, 03:05 PM

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0409/White_House_No_bow_to_Saudi.html

Are you kidding? The video clearly shows he didn't even use "both hands" as stated.
:mad:

I believe everything the Government says.
I believe everything the Government says.
I believe everything the Government says.
I believe everything the Government says.
I believe everything the Government says.
I believe everything the Government says.
:rolleyes:

angelatc

04-09-2009, 03:05 PM

jkm1864

04-09-2009, 04:20 PM

Who cares He just needs to come out and say so what. Why should they lie about it. He needs to tell people to fuck off and he was showing respect.

Scofield

04-09-2009, 04:39 PM

IWould we be mad if another leader walked deliberately by Obama's outstretched hand?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hhMn3WINx8

Not quite the same, but damn if it's not embarrassing for the 'States.

Edit: Also, that clearly was a bow from Obama. Had he just admitted that it was faux pas, it wouldn't be an issue. I love it when the government lies to me and treats me as if I am an imbecile.

Dripping Rain

04-09-2009, 04:46 PM

lmao
the saudi king punched obama in the stomach. he was in pain
heres another good statement for the whitehouse
the saudi king took a swing at obama so he had to duck the sucker punch

satchelmcqueen

04-09-2009, 05:09 PM

i will have the final word here, so dont post anymore after this.

sure the video clearly looks like a bow. even my 2 kids said so. and the pic done in microsoft paint even points out in great detail, the bow.

but the government says it isnt a bow, so there for it is not a bow guys.

sorry, but you shouldnt question government. reality is what they say it is.

blocks

04-09-2009, 05:10 PM

lmao
the saudi king punched obama in the stomach. He was in pain
heres another good statement for the whitehouse
the saudi king took a swing at obama so he had to duck the sucker punch

lol!

silverhawks

04-09-2009, 06:30 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01381/obama_bow_1381505c.jpg

Oh yeah, he was just clasping his hand...while licking his boots.

Bruno

04-09-2009, 06:33 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01381/obama_bow_1381505c.jpg

Oh yeah, he was just clasping his hand...while licking his boots.

Saudi King is like, "Is this guy really bowing to me?"

UtahApocalypse

04-09-2009, 06:40 PM

He was not bowing guys......

He is bending over to take it like a man.

Zera

04-09-2009, 08:38 PM

I don't understand... This is a problem? I'm confused.

A. Havnes

04-09-2009, 08:49 PM

I don't understand... This is a problem? I'm confused.

It's a problem in that a bow like that is clearly an show of submission, and the President shouldn't submit to any foreign leader. Basically, he bowed for the king, there was backlash, and so Washington is trying to say that he wasn't actually bowing, but the video taken clearly shows that he was. Obama being taller than the Saudi king has nothing to do with it.

t0rnado

04-09-2009, 09:01 PM

If he was meeting Hitler, I'm sure he'd just do the Bellamy salute. You know, as a sign of respect.

The King of Saudi Arabia is a fucking idiot who throws people in jail for criticizing his stupid religion. He doesn't deserve respect and shouldn't be treated as a sane person.

GunnyFreedom

04-09-2009, 09:01 PM

He DENIES it?

It's like the Bush administration is back: lying about the obvious.

Don't they know there are videos of this all over the internet that people can seek out? How brazen can they be?

THIS is what makes it a story. Not that Obama was stupid enough to bow, not really even that the media dropped it down the memory hole. But denying that it even happened? lulz

That's what makes it a story. ;)

Zera

04-09-2009, 09:07 PM

It's a problem in that a bow like that is clearly an show of submission, and the President shouldn't submit to any foreign leader. Basically, he bowed for the king, there was backlash, and so Washington is trying to say that he wasn't actually bowing, but the video taken clearly shows that he was. Obama being taller than the Saudi king has nothing to do with it.

I still don't see why bowing is so bad...

nate895

04-09-2009, 09:18 PM

I still don't see why bowing is so bad...

Are you insane? 233 years of giving the figurative finger to monarchy worldwide, and you "...don't see why bowing is so bad?"

Bill M DC

04-09-2009, 09:32 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Liberties[/url]

He eliminated the death tax and taxing the military. Bad ass king indeed!

Zera

04-09-2009, 09:47 PM

Are you insane? 233 years of giving the figurative finger to monarchy worldwide, and you "...don't see why bowing is so bad?"

It was just a gesture to present himself politely. It's not like he's cuffing himself in chains and handing them to the king.

nate895

04-09-2009, 09:49 PM

It was just a gesture to present himself politely. It's not like he's cuffing himself in chains and handing them to the king.

"Polite" is a greeting, a bow is sign of subservience and isn't required of anybody but subjects.

Edit: As a private citizen, if a king (or queen) told me to bow, I'd flip him off and tell him to put it where the sun don't shine, let alone if I was POTUS, and I try to be a gentleman. My distaste of tyranny outweighs my like of gentlemanly behavior.

Zera

04-09-2009, 09:56 PM

"Polite" is a greeting, a bow is sign of subservience and isn't required of anybody but subjects.

Edit: As a private citizen, if a king (or queen) told me to bow, I'd flip him off and tell him to put it where the sun don't shine, let alone if I was POTUS, and I try to be a gentleman. My distaste of tyranny outweighs my like of gentlemanly behavior.

Well, I'll be honest in saying that I don't know how the greeting of many cultures are. I often see Japanese people bowing down to each other, and I don't think they're trying to show themselves as being submissive. Perhaps I'm missing the context here, but I never saw bowing as, how I'm see you guys point it out, handing your balls over. Oh well.

thasre

04-09-2009, 10:02 PM

White House FAIL
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4941/obamabow.jpg

Clearly King Abdullah is the little midget obscured by the man in the foreground.

Oh, and that's Barack Obama's OTHER left hand. People who can't dance have two left feet... presidents with no international diplomacy skills have two left hands. It's very simple.

nate895

04-09-2009, 10:22 PM

Well, I'll be honest in saying that I don't know how the greeting of many cultures are. I often see Japanese people bowing down to each other, and I don't think they're trying to show themselves as being submissive. Perhaps I'm missing the context here, but I never saw bowing as, how I'm see you guys point it out, handing your balls over. Oh well.

It isn't when you do it as a mutual greeting, but that isn't a typical Western of Mid-Eastern greeting. I have bowed before, I have no problem with the act of bowing in and of itself. In fact, I probably bow more often than most since I try to be a gentleman at all times, but to do it to a foreign monarch because they are a foreign monarch is outrageous.

Zera

04-09-2009, 10:24 PM

It isn't when you do it as a mutual greeting, but that isn't a typical Western of Mid-Eastern greeting. I have bowed before, I have no problem with the act of bowing in and of itself. In fact, I probably bow more often than most since I try to be a gentleman at all times, but to do it to a foreign monarch because they are a foreign monarch is outrageous.

I can see why you're angry, but I'm still just not really outraged. I guess it's mainly because it seems pointless to care about these little things that mean nothing in the end.

nate895

04-09-2009, 10:26 PM

I can see why you're angry, but I'm still just not really outraged. I guess it's mainly because it seems pointless to care about these little things that mean nothing in the end.

It isn't that I'm worked up over this, I was worked up a long time ago, this is just something new to add to the list of grievances.

Theocrat

04-09-2009, 10:37 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01381/obama_bow_1381505c.jpg

Oh yeah, he was just clasping his hand...while licking his boots.

It's obvious that Obama was bending over to get a better look at the Saudi king's ring and wristwatch. :p

Zera

04-09-2009, 10:38 PM

It isn't that I'm worked up over this, I was worked up a long time ago, this is just something new to add to the list of grievances.

Right, because bowing down to some idiot is just as bad as making and spending trillions.

jdmyprez_deo_vindice

04-09-2009, 10:41 PM

It's obvious that Obama was bending over to get a better look at the Saudi king's ring and wristwatch. :p

I am pretty sure that Obama just found some money on the floor and he got excited because it is a start towards the next bailout.

nate895

04-09-2009, 10:47 PM

Right, because bowing down to some idiot is just as bad as making and spending trillions.

No, it isn't, but it still is a grievance. I think it is more of a sign of changing attitudes towards power in this country, not that big of a deal in and of itself. Should it have happened? Absolutely not, but I find the fact that many Americans are defending his bow as a sign that they are willing to accept the ultimate form of big government, and actually willingly bow to it.

GunnyFreedom

04-09-2009, 11:26 PM

The point is, it will horrify millions of Americans, and that makes 2012 look brighter every day.

Danke

04-10-2009, 08:12 AM

Well, I'll be honest in saying that I don't know how the greeting of many cultures are. I often see Japanese people bowing down to each other, and I don't think they're trying to show themselves as being submissive. Perhaps I'm missing the context here, but I never saw bowing as, how I'm see you guys point it out, handing your balls over. Oh well.

I have lived in Japan. Bowing is a submissive action. The higher position you hold, the less angle you bow. I found it embarrassing when a much elder man bowed down low to his younger (inherited wealth) boss.

I think with all the flack Obama is getting over this, next time his handlers will just have him curtsy.

jbuttell

04-11-2009, 08:02 AM

Well, I'll be honest in saying that I don't know how the greeting of many cultures are. I often see Japanese people bowing down to each other, and I don't think they're trying to show themselves as being submissive. Perhaps I'm missing the context here, but I never saw bowing as, how I'm see you guys point it out, handing your balls over. Oh well.

Yeah, but thats you. We can forgive your ignorance on this issue. The President of the United States on the otherhand did this intentionally - and comes across as a big FU to every american.

Bruno

04-11-2009, 08:10 AM

Yeah, but thats you. We can forgive your ignorance on this issue. The President of the United States on the otherhand did this intentionally - and comes across as a big FU to every american.

+1

angelatc

04-11-2009, 08:17 AM

angelatc

04-11-2009, 08:20 AM

No, it isn't, but it still is a grievance. I think it is more of a sign of changing attitudes towards power in this country, not that big of a deal in and of itself. Should it have happened? Absolutely not, but I find the fact that many Americans are defending his bow as a sign that they are willing to accept the ultimate form of big government, and actually willingly bow to it.

I think that it's just a sign that the Obamatrons think that he's above reproach on anything.

On Yahoo Answers, I tried to point out that not bowing to the Queen the same day, at the same event, meant he is obviously sexist. :)

fatjohn

04-13-2009, 04:27 AM

He didn't bow!

He just bend over.

Bill M DC

04-13-2009, 09:58 AM

I've been looking for op-eds and such that might better explain what I suspect is a cultural knee jerk reaction on BO's part.

It's clear that he was schooled and reared under heavy Islamic influences which would instill in him the respect for the guardian and protector of the holy cities of Islam, Jeda and Mecca.

IMO, the bow was his Islamic upbringing coming out as any child from the Muslim world would revere the king who was by birth right guardian and protector of not only the holy cities but Islam itself.

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2009/04/03/obama-bows-down-to-saudi-king/

Mani

04-13-2009, 10:44 AM

It was a f'up which was bad for the many reasons mentioned, but the cover up makes it offensive to the many of us on RP forums.

Instead of a "oops, Obama screwed that up.." it was DENIAL from the government..."It never happened. It was not a bow..."

That's the frustrating, WTF!?! part.

Its like they have a guy in Obama's administration who thinks he has Jedi powers and he waves his hand when saying this stuff and we are supposed to pretend like we didn't see it happen. That is messed up!

When we seem them blatantly lie for even benign things, it's frustrating. Especially when it seems like the lie IS being ignored and the administration proves that we ARE mostly sheep or his fake Jedi powers ARE working, things like this can be upsetting even when the offense didn't have dire consequences.