Growing the Liberty Forest...

[JoshLowry]

Why is it that our members who post here create threads that are geared for promoting CFL more often than RPF/LF?

Are the forums really that much more extreme than the content on CFL? Guests can not view hot topics nor most of our infighting.

Would you wear a RPF/LF shirt? Put a bumper sticker on your car? Pass out LF/RPF Slim Jims if they were already designed?

Would you have a preference promoting Liberty Forest or Ron Paul Forums?

I'm sure if we have a 2012 run then this site will spread like wild fire once again. However, I'd like to see us make some good steady growth until that time comes. It's also good to do this because Ron Paul might not run and then we can make a complete transition to a stronger and better Liberty Forest.

How do you think we can best grow this community for the future?

Thanks!

:)

[Deborah K]

I promote this site by inserting links to it when I write the MSM, and various politicians. I also do it on my email list.

[brandon]

I would put a bumper sticker on my car. I would consider wearing a shirt too. I think I would want to change my username though because I don't want certain people in my life to come this site and see some of the things I have posted here. :D

[Kludge]

Shirt -- Only at a libertarian event.

Bumper Sticker -- Yes.

Slim Jims -- Maybe as an insert in 2010/2012 canvassing.

[pcosmar]

I like the site for news information and discussions of Liberty issues.
I was a bit discouraged after the Campaign and election and stepped away for a bit. I came back, not so much to Campaign but to share camaraderie with other like minded folks.
I have told others of it, and have transitioned from campaign to raising awareness.

I think there is room here for both Campaigns, Liberty discussion/Education.

For me it is also entertaining and a social outlet. (I am rather rural) :)

I would welcome growth, but not at the expense of principals. More is not necessarily better.

Oh, and I would probably like a Liberty Forest Shirt, but not till I have some Money. :o :(

[MsDoodahs]

What's the mission of Liberty Forest?

Do you have a mission statement?

I'd wear a tee shirt and put a bumper sticker on the van, depending on what the mission statement says.

;)

[JoshLowry]

Not yet. I think we should work on one.

Deborah's thread has a lot of good stuff we can use: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=186431

[pcosmar]

What's the mission of Liberty Forest?

Do you have a mission statement?

I'd wear a tee shirt and put a bumper sticker on the van, depending on what the mission statement says.

;)

Not a Mission Statement so much,
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=51014


It is named Liberty Forest, (LibertyForest.com). Named after the Liberty Tree, a famous elm tree that stood near the commons of Boston, Massachusetts Colony, in the days before the American Revolution. The tree was a rallying point for the growing resistance to the rule of England over the American colonies. In the years that followed, almost every American town had its own Liberty Tree—a living symbol of popular support for individual liberty and resistance to tyranny. We are the Liberty Forest so to speak, as the internet is one large meeting place.
I have been moving from R3VOLution to Resistance. So this is relevant.

[angelatc]

Why is it that our members who post here create threads that are geared for promoting CFL more often than RPF/LF?

Are the forums really that much more extreme than the content on CFL? Guests can not view hot topics nor most of our infighting.

Would you wear a RPF/LF shirt? Put a bumper sticker on your car? Pass out LF/RPF Slim Jims if they were already designed?

Would you have a preference promoting Liberty Forest or Ron Paul Forums?

I'm sure if we have a 2012 run then this site will spread like wild fire once again. However, I'd like to see us make some good steady growth until that time comes. It's also good to do this because Ron Paul might not run and then we can make a complete transition to a stronger and better Liberty Forest.

How do you think we can best grow this community for the future?

Thanks!

:)

Liberty Forest is my preference.

I don't like t-shirts. I'd be more inclined to wear a shirt with a collar. I think they're called polo shirts.

I would also be happy to put a bumper sticker on my car.

[heavenlyboy34]

Use a slogan something along the lines of "principle before party" or something more liberty oriented. You don't want to be pigeon-holed as a GOP site, because this will turn off other folks the freedom movement who are just as valuable. (just my 2 cents worth :))

[ItsTime]

When I was canvassing for Ron Paul I had a sheet for "internet sites" this site was on that list :D. I still to this day send links from this site to my email lists.

Would I wear a shirt? Depends on what it looks like.

[ItsTime]

Use a slogan something along the lines of "principle before party" or something more liberty oriented.

That should be the slogan! :D

[JoshLowry]

Use a slogan something along the lines of "principle before party" or something more liberty oriented. You don't want to be pigeon-holed as a GOP site, because this will turn off other folks the freedom movement who are just as valuable. (just my 2 cents worth :))

That's pretty good.

I like not identifying with any parties.

[Perry]

Truthfully? This place is far too "adult". In public this would be a bar. I would never let my child view these forums because of the lack of moderation. There are a great deal of people out there who don't want to hear the filth or rub shoulders with clansmen. This is why the large portion of my communication on the subject is conducted elsewhere.

[JoshLowry]

Truthfully? This place is far too "adult". In public this would be a bar. I would never let my child view these forums because of the lack of moderation. There are a great deal of people out there who don't want to hear the filth or rub shoulders with clansmen. This is why the large portion of my communication on the subject is conducted elsewhere.

No, lie to me! ;)

We have people on both sides of that fence. We do allow cursing but graphic images are not allowed. You have to be 18 to vote, so I think a political website does not attract many of the youngins.

Thanks for the feedback.

[pcosmar]

No, lie to me! ;)

We have people on both sides of that fence. We do allow cursing but graphic images are not allowed. You have to be 18 to vote, so I think a political website does not attract many of the youngins.

Thanks for the feedback.

I think that any "child" that could comprehend the problems and discuss the issues would have little problem with the language. They probably hear worse in school, or on the street.

[JoshLowry]

Use a slogan something along the lines of "principle before party" or something more liberty oriented. You don't want to be pigeon-holed as a GOP site, because this will turn off other folks the freedom movement who are just as valuable. (just my 2 cents worth :))

http://ronpaulforums.com/principal.png
Thoughts?

I think we could attract a lot of disenfranchised Obama supporters.



Read comments here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/8ap0m/obama_administrations_stance_on_secrecy_goes_even/

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/8aqbe/obama_administration_quietly_expands_bushs_legal/

Reddit was a breeding ground for Obama after RP fell off the radar. Looks like some seem to be waking up.

[dgr]

Well if I'm old enough to be most of your grandmothers, and I have a bumper sticker that reads "charter member of the vast right wing consiracy, and I love this site for its open exchange of ideas and honest expression and don't even have HBO so how can it be too adult.
I'm as they say 'looking for a home" besides most GOP members don't even know what the NAU & SPP are, let alone that Bush was never a conservative , social or economic.

[silverhawks]

That's pretty good.

I like not identifying with any parties.

I think this is the right route to go, Josh, simply because this movement needs to reach out to ALL Americans to defend their constitutional rights, before they are gone altogether.

I'm at the point where I am DONE being scared for my family at the state of this country, and am willing to make a stand against this government. Whether that means protest or revolution, so be it; that choice is not up to me, it is up to THEM.

We should not fear them - they should fear US. Not because we are kicking down their doors and tarring and feathering them - but because we CAN do that - it is our legal right to do so.

I don't think sign waving by itself is going to matter to these people, and I think a lot of other people think the same way. We're looking at a chain of endless abuses of Constitutional rights, and since the majority doesn't respond, they don't care - they are as institutionalized as their voting blocs, and have conditioned THEMSELVES to respond to a democracy instead of a Republic. We need to organise something truly spectacular to get their attention, the media's attention, and in fact, the WORLD'S attention.

Again, I don't think I'm alone in seeing the spectre of truly totalitarian government rising again in the world, and while I am not scared for myself, I fear for my children and my grandchildren. I am not going to sit here quietly and pass along the moral debt burden to the next generation - I'll pay that in full right now, and I'll do it with a million patriots standing alongside me, as long as we organise.

Gathering in tens and twenties isn't going to cut it. One hundred might get their attention. You can bet a thousand standing on their office porch, bearing a list of grievances and demanding action will wake them up a bit.

In short, I want to see this again:

http://nyletterpress.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/ron-paul-march-pic-2.jpg

Not RP signs, but I think that these might be appropriate (the first obviously inspired by Dr Paul):

DON'T STEAL - THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE THE COMPETITION!

NO LEGISLATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!

WAKE UP AMERICA AND STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!

ITS OUR GOVERNMENT, NOT THEIRS!

WE THE PEOPLE ARE HERE TO AIR OUR GRIEVANCES!

When other people approach us and ask which party we represent, don't say "we support Ron Paul", say "We are patriots here to protest the actions of an increasingly non-representative government. We are here today to stand up for EVERY American's rights."

Let's get out there, protest LOUDLY, and EDUCATE people. That was the reason Paul got shot down during the primaries - the establishment didn't want this message out there, and if they fear it, I say we bring it right out into the light of day.

There are good representatives, and I for one would like to see some kind of easily accessed Liberty rating system, that evaluates representatives based on their Constitutional principles, so we know where to go and which office doorstep to stand on - ALL OF US - and eventually to who to hold accountable for the abuses of government.

I am in no way advocating violence, but I am not advocating sitting down any more either. The time is done for that.

[silverhawks]

http://ronpaulforums.com/principal.png
Thoughts?

I think we could attract a lot of disenfranchised Obama supporters.

I like that a lot: however, PRINCIPLES, NOT PARTY would work better ;)

[constituent]

i have many ideas that i will refrain from expressing.

briefly, drop the ron paul name (it's a double-edged sword that as of late has only cut the wrong way... i imagine the same could likely be said from rp's perspective as well), have all hits to ronpaulforums.com redirect to libertyforest.com (hell, you own the domain), perhaps have a sticky on "why the change" that explains the roots of libertyforest to the new comers and addresses the concerns of returning old timers who are surprised to get a redirect from rpf.

your questions:

would i wear a t-shirt?

three or four days ago, i'd have said f* yea.

bumper stick?

three or four days ago, i'd have said bet your life.

[LittleLightShining]

I tell people about this place all the time. I don't advertise it persay because in a way I feel very protective of this site. You guys are like family to me now so even though I don't know you I "know" you. I feel very comfortable saying things that I say here-- and anyone who really knows me in real life would say, "Yep, that's you alright." I guess it's kind of a straddling the line between "official" stuff-- which is what C4L is to me and digesting information and collaborating on projects-- which is here. I spend way more time here than anywhere else online. I'm rambling... but rpf is like college, community and family all rolled into one and I want it to stay that way.

[JoshLowry]

Whoops, principal... Long day... I will change it. :)

[constituent]

http://ronpaulforums.com/principal.png
Thoughts?

I think we could attract a lot of disenfranchised Obama supporters.



I like "grow your mind."



I think we could attract a lot of disenfranchised Obama supporters.

If that's your goal, perhaps something along the lines of "sowing seeds of change."

[heavenlyboy34]

I tell people about this place all the time. I don't advertise it persay because in a way I feel very protective of this site. You guys are like family to me now so even though I don't know you I "know" you. I feel very comfortable saying things that I say here-- and anyone who really knows me in real life would say, "Yep, that's you alright." I guess it's kind of a straddling the line between "official" stuff-- which is what C4L is to me and digesting information and collaborating on projects-- which is here. I spend way more time here than anywhere else online. I'm rambling... but rpf is like college, community, family and business all rolled into one and I want it to stay that way.

awwww! That brought a little tear to my eye. ~warm and fuzzy feelings here~ :) I feel the same way. (though it's a rather dysfunctional family sometimes...lolz) ~hugs LLS~ :D

[JoshLowry]

i have many ideas that i will refrain from expressing.

briefly, drop the ron paul name (it's a double-edged sword that as of late has only cut the wrong way... i imagine the same could likely be said from rp's perspective as well), have all hits to ronpaulforums.com redirect to libertyforest.com (hell, you own the domain), perhaps have a sticky on "why the change" that explains the roots of libertyforest to the new comers and addresses the concerns of returning old timers who are surprised to get a redirect from rpf.

your questions:

would i wear a t-shirt?

three or four days ago, i'd have said f* yea.

bumper stick?

three or four days ago, i'd have said bet your life.

The plan is to leave it up til mid 2009. That's supposedly when we will find out from Benton if RP will run. If he does run, Liberty Forest is going to take the small stage. For the short term I will work on figuring out the mod_rewrite so that lf.com and rpf.com are interchangable and not just forwarded with a mask.


I know where you are coming from.

We made some tough decisions recently. Hopefully we can move past it.

Thanks. :)

[JoshLowry]

I like "grow your mind."



If that's your goal, perhaps something along the lines of "sowing seeds of change."

That word has been perverted imo. :(

I like the grow, forest, trees, aspect when possible to incorporate.

[Josh_LA]

Why is it that our members who post here create threads that are geared for promoting CFL more often than RPF/LF?


Because CFL is a political organization

RPF/LF is for keyboard commandos.




Are the forums really that much more extreme than the content on CFL? Guests can not view hot topics nor most of our infighting.

yes.




Would you wear a RPF/LF shirt? Put a bumper sticker on your car? Pass out LF/RPF Slim Jims if they were already designed?


Nope, not unless there was a specific goal.
Profit, non-profit.
Not if it wasn't affordable either.
(I think based on my t-shirt selling experience I'm qualified to judge)



Would you have a preference promoting Liberty Forest or Ron Paul Forums?


Ron Paul forums is NOT outdated.
Liberty Forest sounds cliche, and forest doesn't tell us much what it means.
I prefer RPF.



I'm sure if we have a 2012 run then this site will spread like wild fire once again. However, I'd like to see us make some good steady growth until that time comes.


Who wouldn't?



It's also good to do this because Ron Paul might not run and then we can make a complete transition to a stronger and better Liberty Forest.


Depends on what you consider strength and good.

Traffic? Constructive comments? Making money?



How do you think we can best grow this community for the future?
Thanks!
:)

Good question.
First of all. Let's see how well it's holding up as far as being a self paid website.

Once we get passed this, we can think of projects to promote in specific activism & messages.

Restore the Republic, Bureaucrash, Democratic Underground, Antiwar.com, FreeRepublic already do this a bit.

Then, you can sell t-shirts if there's demand
Then, you can allow trading like we've suggested for months
As traffic grows, only good things will happen, namely starting with ad revenues.

I can offer much more advice in marketing, fundraising, cost reduction...in private. But your goal should be straight forward.

Think about doing what other sites and forums are NOT ALREADY DOING.

[Josh_LA]

The plan is to leave it up til mid 2009. That's supposedly when we will find out from Benton if RP will run. If he does run, Liberty Forest is going to take the small stage. For the short term I will work on figuring out the mod_rewrite so that lf.com and rpf.com are interchangable and not just forwarded with a mask.


I don't think you need mod_rewrite, you can set this up in httpd.conf as alias.

Also, mid 2009 is only a few months from now? What's stopping you from keeping this up? Not enough money?
(I don't think that would be fair for people who paid you $20 with a promise to use your site for a year!)



I know where you are coming from.

We made some tough decisions recently. Hopefully we can move past it.

Thanks. :)

I guess I missed out there.

[JoshLowry]

I mean leaving the RonPaulForums domain up. If by mid 2009 we find out that Ron Paul is running then the name of the board will be "officially" be changed to Liberty Forest.

I'm not taking the site down. Thanks for the feedback.

[pcosmar]

I like "grow your mind."



If that's your goal, perhaps something along the lines of "sowing seeds of change."

Those would make great banners over the Logo for a T shirt. :D

[Josh_LA]

I mean leaving the RonPaulForums domain up. If by mid 2009 we find out that Ron Paul is running then the name of the board will be "officially" be changed to Liberty Forest.

I'm not taking the site down. Thanks for the feedback.

ok good.

domains are too cheap to let go especially if you've built so much traffic into it.

making them interchangable today won't be a bad idea either, who cares?

As long as people reach the site.

[JoshLowry]

Won't let it go either. The domain brings in tons of clicks. :)

Agreed.

[angelatc]

http://ronpaulforums.com/principal.png
Thoughts?

I think we could attract a lot of disenfranchised Obama supporters.


...NM....

although the tail of the 'y' looks like an apostrophe at first glance. That bugs me.

[constituent]

making them interchangable today won't be a bad idea either, who cares?

As long as people reach the site.

I have to disagree. There are many negative implications in terms of the ron paul "brand," primarily--in terms of a 'liberty' based community--the wwrpd crowd.

Frankly, since RP's failed "run" for the presidency, I see him in quite a different light than I did before and can no longer (in good faith) call myself a supporter. That said, I enjoy most of the company here and since it is called "liberty forest" as well, that should be cool, you'd think.

However, recent experience has proven otherwise. But this is getting into things that i'm more interested in leaving alone for the time being, and discussions/motivations/objectives/etc. that i think need time to rest before an objective reexamination is even possible (or prudent).

[ronpaulhawaii]

Are the forums really that much more extreme than the content on CFL?

Yes, most notably- imo- the atheist/religious debates. I still think a religious discussion sub-forum along the lines of HT would suffice, but religion and politics have never mixed well.

HT is a good solution for this community, but it was that type content which scared off CfL from using this forum.

An optional profanity filter would help in this regard, as well.


Would you wear a RPF/LF shirt? Put a bumper sticker on your car? Pass out LF/RPF Slim Jims if they were already designed?
Hell yes


Would you have a preference promoting Liberty Forest or Ron Paul Forums?Depends on the audience...

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb19/mkauai/RPFs/SNC00050.jpg

ran out of ink during this run:o


How do you think we can best grow this community for the future?This thread is a good start


Use a slogan something along the lines of "principle before party" or something more liberty oriented. You don't want to be pigeon-holed as a GOP site, because this will turn off other folks the freedom movement who are just as valuable. (just my 2 cents worth :))

+1


...There are a great deal of people out there who don't want to hear the filth or rub shoulders with clansmen....



http://ronpaulforums.com/principal.png


I prefer the term "before" rather than "not" (which is a negative term)

perhaps "rather than", or "above" - but that is just me. Not that big of a deal.

Great thread

[Kludge]

The domain brings in tons of clicks.

I really ought to wear my glasses while reading.... I thought you wrote "chicks" and, prior to laughing, laughed.

[mczerone]

Use a slogan something along the lines of "principle before party" or something more liberty oriented. You don't want to be pigeon-holed as a GOP site, because this will turn off other folks the freedom movement who are just as valuable. (just my 2 cents worth :))

I wouldn't use a reference to 'parties' at all. Most of the Forums, in content and membership, is more oriented to a general philosophy of personal Liberty, rather than a pure focus on the partisan political process. Plus, as you have it ("principle before party") seems to imply that we are all part of the same 'party' that has a disagreement with the direction the party is headed. Part of Paul's support certainly was from Republicans seeking a sanitarium from the rest of the party, but another substantial part was from independents, liberals, and apathetics, all of whom are seeking sanitarium from the direction of the entirety of government, not just any particular party.

But I do agree that I would need to see a mission statement before I considered advertising the Forums. I would hope instead that deals could be reached to cross-promote more (like Free Talk Live, LRC, and other easily googled sites or broadcast media where people seeking Liberty would easily hear of the place), but I guess I haven't researched how an online Forum can cobble a feasible business model.

[bunklocoempire]

Use a slogan something along the lines of "principle before party" or something more liberty oriented. You don't want to be pigeon-holed as a GOP site, because this will turn off other folks the freedom movement who are just as valuable. (just my 2 cents worth :))

+1776

and...

The history surrounding the founding of our Nation is paramount, our founders INTENT is paramount.

I would also like to see COURAGE played up, seeing as IMO only RON PAUL has shown COURAGE. Our founders had COURAGE.

COURAGE, let's grab it before someone else does. Let 'em keep "hope" and "Country first".

Bunkloco

[JoshLowry]

+1776

and...

The history surrounding the founding of our Nation is paramount, our founders INTENT is paramount.

I would also like to see COURAGE played up, seeing as IMO only RON PAUL has shown COURAGE. Our founders had COURAGE.

COURAGE, let's grab it before someone else does. Let 'em keep "hope" and "Country first".

Bunkloco

I really like that!

Much better than that C word that Obama used.

I'm not sure if it is as marketable, but it's got a punch to it.

[Maverick]

I prefer the term "before" rather than "not" (which is a negative term)

perhaps "rather than", or "above" - but that is just me. Not that big of a deal.


I agree. I was going to say I liked it as HB presented it - "principles before party" - but I think I like "above" even better.

"Principles above party" has a nice ring to it.

[JoshLowry]

Yea, dropping the negative word is good.

[Maverick]

...NM....

although the tail of the 'y' looks like an apostrophe at first glance. That bugs me.

I suppose using "principle" would be acceptable as well, right? If written that way, then the "y" wouldn't interfere with the word there.

[Bryan]

I agree with RPH on the tag line, and would also suggest "Principles OVER party". But I like BEFORE too- maybe better.


...NM....

although the tail of the 'y' looks like an apostrophe at first glance. That bugs me.
Agree with this too- the font could be one of those Big upper case and small upper case styles.



Reading-- more from me later... :)

[Bruno]

Awesome thread and comments. Thank you Josh, and everyone else.

I'd love a shirt!


I like the site for news information and discussions of Liberty issues.
I was a bit discouraged after the Campaign and election and stepped away for a bit. I came back, not so much to Campaign but to share camaraderie with other like minded folks.
I have told others of it, and have transitioned from campaign to raising awareness.

I think there is room here for both Campaigns, Liberty discussion/Education.

For me it is also entertaining and a social outlet. (I am rather rural) :)

I would welcome growth, but not at the expense of principals. More is not necessarily better.

Oh, and I would probably like a Liberty Forest Shirt, but not till I have some Money. :o :(

I'd be honored to send you a shirt. :)

[dr. hfn]

i promote on my digg profile....i'd buy Liberty Forest merch

[heavenlyboy34]

Nice brainstorming, guys. Glad I could help ya. :) Nite nite! ~Hugs all around~ ttyl...I have to go put my pet bunchies to bed. (it's one of those days where he won't go to sleep without a bedtime story:rolleyes:)

[JeNNiF00F00]

I would buy tshirts and probably even sport a bumper sticker. By growing, we would be spreading the message. I think its a great idea. :)

[JoshLowry]

I will work on some art work this coming week. Thanks for all the ideas.

Feel free to add more!

[acptulsa]

would i wear a t-shirt?

three or four days ago, i'd have said f* yea.

bumper stick?

three or four days ago, i'd have said bet your life.

And I am more likely to direct neophytes here today than I was a week ago. Obviously your heroes aren't mine as well.

I have not considered this place Freedom Class 101. And the 'does anarchy mean what everyone in the country but the ones who call themselves anarchists think it means or is this two percent of the population correct' arguments going on incessantly really didn't help me think of this as the right place for people to get their feet wet in this. Maybe I'm wrong. Obviously I didn't feel the same way when I got here--I once wrote a thread explaining why having libertarian control on the federal level would actually be an aid to states that prefer socialism, which I entitled 'Why Dr. Paul is good for liberals, too' iirc. Can't find it lately. And it got good replies, so obviously I am wrong, it is or was a decent site even for neophytes. But it really seems like we get people in here who will flame the unconverted, and often the converted as well, and that doesn't seem to me to be the way to win converts.

And I value the place the more for it, truth be known. I don't think everyplace in the world needs to be idiot-proof. I think of this place these days as an action site, yes, but also as a think tank. And the more still the waters are, the deeper they run. How invaluable is that, especially in modern times? Yet when you're going for the general public's eye, you must be willing to think about what you're typing and how it could be received. And I try to do that, but find myself forgetting myself from time to time. The Liberty 604 seminar is very likely to have hotter discussions than the Liberty 101 seminar. Both are needed. Both are invaluable. But can we be patient with n00bs, even when they aren't so respectful? Can we patiently endure elementary questions in our Liberty 604 seminar, and stay on track too?

The good news is, this thread gets me thinking about how far we've come, and it occurs to me that there are more and more people ready for Liberty 103, or 301, or whatever level of more advanced course. So, maybe I'm underestimating the general public--and us. I hope so, because 2010 is pretty damned close, and we can't afford to fail to make headway in that election.

So, is there some way to make a 'safe zone'? Someone mentioned language filters earlier. Can we also eliminate the silly popularity contest stars and instead allow users to rate a thread based on how advanced the theories involved are? Can we keep members out of Hot Topics until they become Senior Members--and should we?

There is one thing I'd love to see, and that's a way to make the site more useful for research. But I shudder at the thought of plowing through all the billions and billions threads and organizing them by specific subject--which would be even more onerous considering some of the great, great stuff that has come out of thread hijacks now and again...

Some rethinking of the organization of information to make it more useful--and especially to give neophytes a 'library' where they can educate themselves on the basics--and a lot of voluntaryism on the part of the members regarding how we treat n00bs even if they come in being obnoxious (yes, I'm among the worst about flaming suspected trolls, and berating myself here) and how people will view our comments even if they don't pipe up and say so could do this forum and our cause a lot of good. And if we work at providing 101-level introductory threads that would be a plus as well.

I think I used up my two cents, so I'll shut up now...

[acptulsa]

...or not.

One thing I think would be very helpful is if we could sticky some basic educational threads to help people get up to speed.

And remain very respectful when we update them.

[ronpaulhawaii]

And I am more likely to direct neophytes here today than I was a week ago...

+1


... But it really seems like we get people in here who will flame the unconverted, and often the converted as well, and that doesn't seem to me to be the way to win converts.

+2


And I value the place the more for it, truth be known. I don't think everyplace in the world needs to be idiot-proof. I think of this place these days as an action site, yes, but also as a think tank. And the more still the waters are, the deeper they run. How invaluable is that, especially in modern times? Yet when you're going for the general public's eye, you must be willing to think about what you're typing and how it could be received. And I try to do that, but find myself forgetting myself from time to time. The Liberty 604 seminar is very likely to have hotter discussions than the Liberty 101 seminar. Both are needed. Both are invaluable. But can we be patient with n00bs, even when they aren't so respectful? Can we patiently endure elementary questions in our Liberty 604 seminar, and stay on track too?

+3


...So, maybe I'm underestimating the general public--and us. I hope so, because 2010 is pretty damned close, and we can't afford to fail to make headway in that election.


+4


So, is there some way to make a 'safe zone'? Someone mentioned language filters earlier. Can we also eliminate the silly popularity contest stars and instead allow users to rate a thread based on how advanced the theories involved are? Can we keep members out of Hot Topics until they become Senior Members--and should we?


+5
...


Some rethinking of the organization of information to make it more useful--and especially to give neophytes a 'library' where they can educate themselves on the basics--and a lot of voluntaryism on the part of the members regarding how we treat n00bs even if they come in being obnoxious (yes, I'm among the worst about flaming suspected trolls, and berating myself here) and how people will view our comments even if they don't pipe up and say so could do this forum and our cause a lot of good. And if we work at providing 101-level introductory threads that would be a plus as well.


+6


I think I used up my two cents, so I'll shut up now...

Thems are real copper cents there and worth more than face value

Thanks

[werdd]

Checking my post history

[rancher89]

http://ronpaulforums.com/principal.png
Thoughts?

I think we could attract a lot of disenfranchised Obama supporters.



Read comments here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/8ap0m/obama_administrations_stance_on_secrecy_goes_even/

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/8aqbe/obama_administration_quietly_expands_bushs_legal/

Reddit was a breeding ground for Obama after RP fell off the radar. Looks like some seem to be waking up.

I really like this Josh

[acptulsa]

I think this site is what the Cato Institute claims to be--and could be if it weren't so committed to propaganda. But we could stand to work on our propaganda as well, which is why I am enamored of the idea of a better 'filing system', so to speak.

[axiomata]

I prefer the term "before" rather than "not" (which is a negative term)

perhaps "rather than", or "above" - but that is just me. Not that big of a deal.

Great thread

I think that is a good suggestion.

Also I still think a language filter should be turned on by default, but should be allowed to be turned off in the CP.

I think a Senior Member status requirement to access Hot Topic would be something to try.

As far as the religion subforum similar to hot topics, I think I would prefer just sending potential hot topic religious threads to hot topics.

[Deborah K]

I'd like to see a 'religion and spirituality' subforum. And maybe a 'philosophy' subforum. Clumping these issues in with hot topics makes it too hard to find pertinent information that has been posted in relation to these topics.

[axiomata]

I'd like to see a 'religion and spirituality' subforum. And maybe a 'philosophy' subforum. Clumping these issues in with hot topics makes it too hard to find pertinent information that has been posted in relation to these topics.
Perhaps Natural Law should be included in that subforum to give it some semblance of being on topic.

[Deborah K]

Perhaps Natural Law should be included in that subforum to give it some semblance of being on topic.

Sounds good!

[MsDoodahs]

I'd like to see a 'religion and spirituality' subforum. And maybe a 'philosophy' subforum. Clumping these issues in with hot topics makes it too hard to find pertinent information that has been posted in relation to these topics.

Are you looking for an area where believers can freely associate here at LF?

Because that will work ONLY with hard moderation to maintain the ability to freely associate: by keeping out those non believers who, in the past, have spent untold hours here actively trying to PREVENT the free association of believers. (for the record, if you are reading this and you know that you're one of the ^%&*(^ (*&^%$#@%^& &*^%$^&% who intentionally and relentlessly attack believers, then I say you are a sorry sonofabitch and have NO RESPECT for liberty AT ALL. So there. :p)

I'm not sure that we have many left who would dare to participate, since believers have been so ruthlessly attacked here for such a long time.

[constituent]

And I am more likely to direct neophytes here today than I was a week ago. Obviously your heroes aren't mine as well.


heroes? hardly. sorry i pointed out your foolishness yesterday, i've noticed you wiggin' about it since, chill.

I could write a 500 word diatribe in response (too), but this thread's not the appropriate place.

you said a few things I agree w/ though, fwiw, shame you had to piggyback off my post to get in a patronizing cheap shot first (w/e).

[mamakar]

I've been lurking here for a long time, I am often turned off by the conspiracy talk and religion bashing. Once I see that thread take off I sign off. Thanks...Back to lurking

[acptulsa]

I've been lurking here for a long time, I am often turned off by the conspiracy talk and religion bashing. Once I see that thread take off I sign off. Thanks...Back to lurking

Thank you.

Most of the people who have chimed in are plenty verbose enough that people pretty much know what we think already. I'd love to hear from about a thousand other lurkers. Anyone else? Speak up!

[hotbrownsauce]

... But it really seems like we get people in here who will flame the unconverted, and often the converted as well, and that doesn't seem to me to be the way to win converts.
+


So, is there some way to make a 'safe zone'? Someone mentioned language filters earlier. Can we also eliminate the silly popularity contest stars and instead allow users to rate a thread based on how advanced the theories involved are? Can we keep members out of Hot Topics until they become Senior Members--and should we?
++

If you want my honest opinion as a Student at College, and a strong believer in, free markets, liberty, limited government, and Austrian Economics I'll share it with you.

It is all about the atmosphere of the forums and the attitude of the people. I think people here should offer constructive criticism in a more professional way rather than flaming/arguing etc. We are the representation of liberty and we need to represent it very well or expect people to be turned away quickly we are trying to gain trust, and credibility here. We need to start acting in that manner. I notice many people here bashing people on the opposite end of the spectrum than us. I don't like those people either but it is the constructive, non-demonizing, non-condescending approach that is valuable.

I think some of the people posting here aren't the core of people who are making change politically. Visiting RPF is a different story than was going to the first Regional Conference in STL. The people at the Conference were very nice and professional and entertained all ways to spread the message of liberty.

I'd really like to see RPF become a place of less cussing, and constructive criticism.

I support a language filter and an off limits area to only established senior members.

[nayjevin]

2 quick things:

1. landing page for new visitors
------------
when I first visit the site, what am I looking at? This sure is a forest, I can't see it for the trees.

show me what this is. give me an idea of what happens here. warn me that i will see opinions i don't agree with. let me know I'm welcome. give me a brief overview of the rules, and tell me that if anyone ever 'raises their voice' at me that I am protected.

2. to make the site skyrocket, make it something never seen before
-----------------------------
to see this site go beyond our wildest dreams, make it something that does not currently exist!

there is great value to keeping the site simple, but there is a way to keep it simple for noobs, but still have powerful tools for advanced users. it is depressing that the wiki function of this site is so little used.

in my opinion, as I stated in this mostly ignored thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=187172


Does the phpBB system that this site runs on have that plug-in?

Can the Ron Paul pepples unite to make it?

I'm sure the folks @ http://www.phpbb.com/community/ what with their natural leanings toward liberty for all net users would appreciate it.
it would be a big step, but exceedingly valuable to team up with the already liberty minded community at PHPBB and create NEW tools for the system that currently do not exist, but make this site better - at the same time making BOTH communities better.

I get the impression I am the only one who sees the power in being the dominant force in technology around here. Remember the money bomb widgets? we're STILL getting press for that.

Remain a slave to existing tools, fail to adapt, and wilt. Or, be cutting edge, grow, and prosper, IMnotsoHO

[phill4paul]

Josh, just a quick idea concerning the bumper stickers/t-shirts.

I don't know if it could be set up. If when a new member logs in could they somehow give a reference, as in a current member? Some kind of reference that could allow you to see member XXXX has recruited # new members.

If that could be done then perhaps you could offer as incentive to recruiting new members bumper/stickers and t-shirts as well as selling them.

I don't know the cost factor so that is something you would have to figure out. So say member XXXX has recruited 25 new members. Member XXXX is qualified to receive a free bumper sticker.

That way you get active recruitment from current members. They get a cool bumper sticker. You get additional advertisement knowing that the bumper sticker is going to be seen.

Just an idea. Good luck.

[nayjevin]

The site has to make a decision right now, IMO. Do you want to cater to people who are afraid of opposing beliefs?

It's tough. Many people who are unaware are afraid of having their beliefs challenged - but these are the folks that must change their thinking - and without seeing opposing beliefs, they never will!

There are certainly those who show opposing viewpoints rudely, and those who have a knack for doing so with class. I have fallen many times, but surely attempt to be the latter.

However, rarely do I feel I'm backed up when I do so -- nor corrected when I get out of line. A culture of civility must be encouraged by the members if a culture of civility is wanted.

Folks need to speak up. There should be common phrases we all copy and paste when someone gets out of line, like

'When in doubt, back off' :D
'We agree more than we disagree'
'We're all in this together'
'Let's not lose focus'
'Put yourself in the other guy's shoes'
'Catch more flies with honey than vinegar'

etc etc.

here's an idea:

CAGE MATCHES

libertyforum.org had cagematches where 2 representatives would take each side of an issue and debate them to the death. these cagematches became the definitive threads for each subject, to some extent. then move all threads that debate the same issue to that subforum.

I would spend 1000 hours moving threads for this if that's what it took - and I'm 100% serious about that.

Another thing I would love to see is the 'new posts' button not be the most effective way to see what's going on, or at least see the way it works changed. I want a 'new posts' button where people I have ignored don't show up, at the very least. Better yet, let me define keywords that will, or won't, show up.

Otherwise, I am constantly seeing another damn 911 thread or 'here's what Hannity said today' thread (seriously? you still listen to Hannity?) -- these threads are useless to me. The new posts function also gives people who don't have liberty in mind undue power over my, and others', psyche. Those who post loudest and most frequently make it appear that what they are talking about is what this forum is about. This is change #1 IMO.

I respect that others enjoy watching, and bashing, Hannity, I guess, and I respect that 9/11 is an important and interesting issue, but I would like to see the user have total control over the content she sees.

[nayjevin]

BTW, I would wear t-shirts and use a bumper sticker.

As far as promoting the site, I would encourage users to frequent other forums and pm people who are on the right track and tell them this is where it's at.

[Josh_LA]

And Josh, I really think you should put ads/banners on the front page too.

Just because new visitors would benefit more from seeing the sponsors

[nayjevin]

what about give every thread two categories... one is for new users and one is for users with over 1,000 posts and anytime someone posts in that thread anything that a moderator thinks would drive away a new user, bring down the mod hammer and either get the user to edit the post or put that post/thread into the category only the 1,000 post users can see.

use the existing temp ban/warning for anyone who continuously posts comments that change the thread from a 'general viewing' thread to a '1000 post user thread'.

not perfect, but adapt?

[MsDoodahs]

and tell me that if anyone ever 'raises their voice' at me that I am protected.



Unless there is a change in moderation, I don't think it is acceptable to assure newcomers that they will be protected here.

[Deborah K]

Are you looking for an area where believers can freely associate here at LF?

Because that will work ONLY with hard moderation to maintain the ability to freely associate: by keeping out those non believers who, in the past, have spent untold hours here actively trying to PREVENT the free association of believers. (for the record, if you are reading this and you know that you're one of the ^%&*(^ (*&^%$#@%^& &*^%$^&% who intentionally and relentlessly attack believers, then I say you are a sorry sonofabitch and have NO RESPECT for liberty AT ALL. So there. :p)

I'm not sure that we have many left who would dare to participate, since believers have been so ruthlessly attacked here for such a long time.

Yes, I was thinking along the lines of believers being able to freely associate. But, I'm not opposed to non-believers being able to freely associate as well. If one or the other gets insulting then make an example out them and ban them with no chance of returning. Good, informative, fact based debate should always be allowed, of course.

But for example, when we want to talk about how christian principles played a part in influencing the founders, I'd like to be able to participate without the thread getting derailed by antagonistic atheists with arguments that have no basis in fact, only the intent of condescension.

I have a rather unorthodox view of religion, Christianity, and natural law that I'd like to be able to share and debate with other RPF members but don't want to do it in hot topics. I think there are plenty of RPF members who are either religious, or spiritual and would like to discuss such matters in a venue specific to those issues.

For me, religion/spirituality is rooted in morality, as it is for most people. Politics should also be rooted in morality, morality being right and wrong - and knowing the difference. In this way, I see religious/spiritual principles and politics being linked.

[axiomata]

Yes, I was thinking along the lines of believers being able to freely associate. But, I'm not opposed to non-believers being able to freely associate as well. If one or the other gets insulting then make an example out them and ban them with no chance of returning. Good, informative, fact based debate should always be allowed, of course.

But for example, when we want to talk about how christian principles played a part in influencing the founders, I'd like to be able to participate without the thread getting derailed by antagonistic atheists with arguments that have no basis in fact, only the intent of condescension.

I have a rather unorthodox view of religion, Christianity, and natural law that I'd like to be able to share and debate with other RPF members but don't want to do it in hot topics. I think there are plenty of RPF members who are either religious, or spiritual and would like to discuss such matters in a venue specific to those issues.

For me, religion/spirituality is rooted in morality, as it is for most people. Politics should also be rooted in morality, morality being right and wrong - and knowing the difference. In this way, I see religious/spiritual principles and politics being linked.
"Let them revere nothing but religion, morality and liberty." - John Adams

[MsDoodahs]

If one or the other gets insulting then make an example out them and ban them with no chance of returning.

That will require a change from modding with the lightest hand possible as we strive for now to a harder modding style.

(I'd be happy just to be able to actually enforce the stated guidelines, myself, lol.)

[phill4paul]

Unless there is a change in moderation, I don't think it is acceptable to assure newcomers that they will be protected here.

Agreed. This is a tough one when addressing new members. The forum rules already seem to offer a limited protection. It is really tough drawing a line. Making a newcomer understand that freedom means more than what they believe and allowing for rebuttal. I absolutely would not like these forums to become politically correct. I get that everywhere else I go.
People tend to skip over the user agreement section on any forums they submit to.
Perhaps a user agreement section, that is mandatory read (more than the little clicky box) might help this.
A user agreement page that people must actually choose a yes or no option in a series of questions before allowing access.
Or perhaps this tool only on a hot topics section.

As this seems to be an info clearing house kinda things I'm just throwing out random ideas. Sorry if they seem discombobulated.

[Deborah K]

That will require a change from modding with the lightest hand possible as we strive for now to a harder modding style.

(I'd be happy just to be able to actually enforce the stated guidelines, myself, lol.)


I think relentless attackers should be banned - no questions asked. To my way of thinking, there's no discussion. I don't understand why it is tolerated on these forums.

[MsDoodahs]

I think relentless attackers should be banned - no questions asked. To my way of thinking, there's no discussion. I don't understand why it is tolerated on these forums.

Neither do I.

[Deborah K]

Neither do I.

Well, I guess as long as it is, a subforum for religion/spirituality probably wouldn't survive. Too many intolerant haters being tolerated. :(

[Ninja Homer]

1. Because religion is often times taken very personally, attacks on religion should be viewed as personal attacks, whether it's an attack on Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Atheism or any other religion. Treat it as you would racism. Many people are born into the religion they follow and take it just as personally as their race. I wouldn't do an instant permaban, but maybe a 2 day ban for 1st offense, 1 week ban for 2nd offense, and 3rd strike you're out. However, people are going to debate religion regardless, so a Religion subforum under Hot Topics might be a good idea. I'd guess that religion bashing is the #1 reason for people not becoming members, or for members not returning to this forum.

2. Conspiracy theorists vs. people who don't want to be associated with conspiracy theorists. It's much like the religion issue... people take it personally. Create a "Conspiracy Theories" subforum for people to debate it and establish a ban policy for people who attack people one way or the other for their beliefs. ***Outside the scope of this thread, but I still can't understand how some people take offense to being members of a forum where people discuss even the possibility of certain conspiracy theories. Half of the things Ron Paul talks about were considered "conspiracy theories" as little as 10 years ago. At the same time, I do understand that it wouldn't be good for the general forums to be consumed by conspiracy theory discussion.***

3. I wouldn't make Hot Topics viewable only to senior members. That will just encourage new members to make a bunch of bogus posts so they can view Hot Topics. Instead, I'd take it a step further and make Hot Topics available only to paying members. There's something to be said for the old phrase, "put your money where your mouth is."

4. If you want to grow Liberty Forest, you can either plan what directions you want to grow in, or you can plan how you want to moderate it and let it grow and decline with the general popular interest in political discussion. If you want to plan the directions it grows in (education, expanding public awareness, political party involvement, etc) you'll have more control over it. Add your planned growth to a mission statement and simply ask us to come up with ideas on how to accomplish it. If there's one area we've never failed in, it's creative ideas.

5. There are 22,245 members here. I don't know how many are active... maybe 2000? You have their email addresses. Start doing a weekly newsletter. It shouldn't take too much, just highlight some of the best threads of the week and include links to them. I think doing that alone would get a lot of the past members active again.

6. Most people just don't have the time or interest to read this forum enough to keep up with it. Make some kind of tool (maybe just summary posts) so people can see the best threads, ideas, and videos for daily, weekly, or whatever time frame. Then people will at least keep up with it a little bit, and hopefully get more active when political issues heat up.

7. Keep asking us for feedback. We all want this to grow and succeed just as much as you do! :)

[JoshLowry]

Thank you everyone for all of the constructive criticism.

I've read all of it and will reread again when the mods, Bryan, and I talk. The mod team will probably do a conference call here in the near future so feel free to keep adding.

<3

[pcosmar]

I like the idea of a beginners Area/Page. Even without the controversial subjects there is a lot to absorb. A shallow end of the pool is a good idea. And possibly some "shark"warnings for the deep end. ;)

[acptulsa]

heroes? hardly. sorry i pointed out your foolishness yesterday, i've noticed you wiggin' about it since, chill.

:rolleyes: My foolishness? In believing that most people consider 'anarchy' a dirty word? Really?

Read this with an open mind:


Otherwise, I am constantly seeing another damn 911 thread or 'here's what Hannity said today' thread (seriously? you still listen to Hannity?) -- these threads are useless to me. The new posts function also gives people who don't have liberty in mind undue power over my, and others', psyche. Those who post loudest and most frequently make it appear that what they are talking about is what this forum is about. This is change #1 IMO.

Now, I understand full well that an anarchist isn't going to go running to the mods to air their grievances, but will air them democratically in open debate. Understood and appreciated. Obviously I have a fair amount of anarchist in me as well, as this is the way I prefer it myself. But I do not consider this an excuse to turn every thread into a discussion on the topic. The same for every other hot button issue this forum has ever seen--especially religion. I appreciate that anarchists and athiests, smokers and prune juice lovers, and all kinds of people have been misunderstood for years and want a chance to vent. Hell, I've been a libertarian for years and, I assure you, I do indeed understand. But that's no excuse for threadjacking, and if you can't see that flaming doesn't help then maybe you haven't been flamed enough yourself (of course you have, that's why you're angry; but I contend your real enemy just isn't on this forum).

It sure is tricky and frustrating to try to figure out how this place should be moderated. Recently someone with eighteen million posts was banned, and what I'm talking about here is a major part of the why of it. Every thread doesn't need to be a discussion on the same sore subject, and every mention of the 'other side' of these debates is not an invitation to hijack a thread. I've called this place a 'think tank', and if it is to continue to handily outshine the Cato Institute in that role, it needs to continue to be a virtual 'speak easy'. But flaming every n00b of this or that stripe who happens by is ignorant and incredibly counterproductive. The mods are due incredible respect for patiently slicing this crap out of that thread and that crap out of this thread, but there's often no way to do it quickly enough to keep the original conversation from getting killed...

In the end, voluntaryism is our best bet, I guess--though some will refuse to cooperate so banning will have to remain an option, I'm sure. The heat of the moment will always lead to something undesirable in such a passionate group--but that passion is laudable and to be preserved, too. Our search for perfection will always be denied. But that doesn't mean we can't continue to do great things together for our nation and our posterity!!

It seems to me that this place's Achilles Heel is also it's secret of success--this is a home for the disenfranchised. And as more and more people worldwide become disenfranchised, that bodes well for us--as long as we remember what it is to be disenfranchised and that the people here are not the enemy!!


And on an unrelated note, can we the members do some introductory basic threads on certain key principles of libertarianism, and can we have a special place for them? On the moderation score, it might be an idea to have two standards of moderation (as if we don't make the mods' job hard enough already :rolleyes:); one for the think tank 'advanced' preponderance of the forum and another for the 'Welcome to Libertarian Thought' area.

[constituent]

:rolleyes: My foolishness? In believing that most people consider 'anarchy' a dirty word? Really?


got source? naah of course not, i was talking about your fail at life.

(it's well established that most folks consider 'anarchy' a dirty word, you've not stumbled into some enlightened discovery)


that said,

want to grow the liberty forest? try honest debate. it's frustrating as all hell when folks just start pulling stuff out of their hindquarters.
(example quoted above)

that's a "policing ourselves" change though, admin doesn't really have any control over that one.



Now, I understand full well that an anarchist isn't going to go running to the mods to air their grievances, but will air them democratically in open debate. Understood and appreciated. Obviously I have a fair amount of anarchist in me as well, as this is the way I prefer it myself. But I do not consider this an excuse to turn every thread into a discussion on the topic.

Lol, you brought it up, speaking of honest debate and policing ourselves.


Also, it would help if members looked up "big words" before they misused them (repeatedly), two quick examples being "disingenuous" and "disenfranchised."

[MsDoodahs]

It's nice to have a "from the bottom up" rather than a "from the top down" format - I think that served us well WHEN WE HAD A FOCUS.

When Ron was running - THAT was our focus.

Campaign ended - focus GONE.

With nothing for us to FOCUS all that energy onto, it seems to me we have been sort of drifting, and that energy ended up being focused on EACH OTHER a lot of the time, and IMO that had an overall and pretty extreme negative affect on the forum.

How, after this much time has elapsed, do you "undo" that damage?

I don't think you can unless you first establish a FOCUS for the forum.

Which brings me back to ... what is the mission?

[constituent]

It's nice to have a "from the bottom up" rather than a "from the top down" format - I think that served us well WHEN WE HAD A FOCUS.

When Ron was running - THAT was our focus.

Campaign ended - focus GONE.

With nothing for us to FOCUS all that energy onto, it seems to me we have been sort of drifting, and that energy ended up being focused on EACH OTHER a lot of the time, and IMO that had an overall and pretty extreme negative affect on the forum.

How, after this much time has elapsed, do you "undo" that damage?

I don't think you can unless you first establish a FOCUS for the forum.

Which brings me back to ... what is the mission?


I think trying to define a primary purpose will be detrimental. Issues will arise of varying importance to different members, folks will find people who agree or disagree with them and go from there. IMO, to try and force a focus would have disastrous consequences.




Which brings me back to ... what is the mission?

IMO, providing a forum is a valuable end unto itself.

[pcosmar]

Which brings me back to ... what is the mission?

That would be for greater minds to decide, But I think education and spreading awareness of the various issues should be the focus.

I suppose I have become pessimistic as to the end result, but am committed to slowing the advance of the NWO in any way I can. :cool:

[ronpaulhawaii]

Mission Statement ?

"To provide a platform for users to discuss developments related to the r3VOLution, and plan/execute grassroots responses."

or sumptin lidat...

[Deborah K]

It's nice to have a "from the bottom up" rather than a "from the top down" format - I think that served us well WHEN WE HAD A FOCUS.

When Ron was running - THAT was our focus.

Campaign ended - focus GONE.

With nothing for us to FOCUS all that energy onto, it seems to me we have been sort of drifting, and that energy ended up being focused on EACH OTHER a lot of the time, and IMO that had an overall and pretty extreme negative affect on the forum.

How, after this much time has elapsed, do you "undo" that damage?

I don't think you can unless you first establish a FOCUS for the forum.

Which brings me back to ... what is the mission?

I agree with this. A FOCUS, or a mission will encourage productivity lest this valuable tool be turned into yet another forum cesspool.

[Deborah K]

Mission Statement ?

"To provide a platform for users to discuss developments related to the r3VOLution, and plan/execute grassroots responses."

or sumptin lidat...

BRAVO!! Right to the point!

[constituent]

the r3VOLution

"the" "r3VOLution" has already come full circle. i know it's hard to let a good cash cow go, but...

calling even ten percent of the causes pushed these days "r3VOLution" does a disservice to the actual "r3VOLution" that was.

the revolution was a great thing that can and should stand on its own merits for what it was. new projects should do the same.

[Kraig]

I agree with this. A FOCUS, or a mission will encourage productivity lest this valuable tool be turned into yet another forum cesspool.

The only focus I can think of right now would be to get the word out. Maybe we should go back to "canvasing" our precincts only this time around focus just on educating people (rather than getting votes) on the true nature of our government, the federal reserve, how Obama is not change, etc. I have been going crazy lately wanting to do do SOMETHING, so I starting writing letters to all family members and literally everyone I know just to try to explain the situation our country is in. Sadly I am getting almost no response, but it could be the group of people I am talking to (mostly christians). Plus I think more people would listen when we can say we're not selling anything, we don't want votes, we don't want anything, we just want to share some information.

[constituent]

The only focus I can think of right now would be to get the word out. Maybe we should go back to "canvasing" our precincts only this time around focus just on educating people (rather than getting votes) on the true nature of our government, the federal reserve, how Obama is not change, etc. I have been going crazy lately wanting to do do SOMETHING, so I starting writing letters to all family members and literally everyone I know just to try to explain the situation our country is in. Sadly I am getting almost no response, but it could be the group of people I am talking to (mostly christians). Plus I think more people would listen when we can say we're not selling anything, we don't want votes, we don't want anything, we just want to share some information.

BAM!

Writing is a revolutionary act that can and usually does fly under its own banner.

[MsDoodahs]

I think trying to define a primary purpose will be detrimental. Issues will arise of varying importance to different members, folks will find people who agree or disagree with them and go from there. IMO, to try and force a focus would have disastrous consequences.


Since the end of Ron's campaign, this place has been functioning without any focus.

I took Josh's decision to start this thread - GROWING THE LIBERTY FOREST - in combination with his ideas of tee shirts and bumper stickers and other promotional ideas listed in his opening thread as indicators that Josh recognizes something is lacking here - namely, growth.


IMO, providing a forum is a valuable end unto itself.

Value is ... subjective.

[MsDoodahs]

We were the birthplace of so many great ideas...when we were all FOCUSED on the campaign.

If we put our minds back together, on the stuff where we DO have agreement (preserving/reclaiming individual liberty?), then I think we'd be able to recapture membership (with an email or two from Josh, and the idea of a weekly newsletter with the activities members are working on...IMO that'd be a draw to some who got TOTALLY fed up with the "just another forum cesspool" thang and left).

Mission statement....

hmmmm....

"Ideas: we hatch 'em, you catch 'em?"

:D

[pcosmar]

Mission statement....

hmmmm....

"Ideas: we hatch 'em, you catch 'em?"

:D

Oooo,
I like,
That goes well with the Think Tank atmosphere that is prevalent here. :cool:

[ronpaulhawaii]

...
calling even ten percent of the causes pushed these days "r3VOLution" does a disservice to the actual "r3VOLution" that was...

r3VOLution is timeless.

I'd imagine ~90% percent of what we did, in the election campaign, was complained about, by ~10% of our users, as "doing us a disservice." Luckily, not even an army can stop an idea whose time has come...

;)
r3VOLution!!!
:D

[rancher89]

I visit almost everyday, I don't post everyday. I uses this forum as a tool, a resource for helping me keep my focus on the short and long game.

Short game--what's going on right now that Liberty lovers everywhere are trying to accomplish, whether that's running for office, supporting candidates, holding rallys, getting out information on nefarious going ons, etc.

Long game--restoring our freedoms by whatever method works best, see short game.

Comic relief--"bestest picture thread.." and so much more, thanks to all of you who have helped maintain a sense of humor amongst all the tough stuff.

The most wonderful thing happened to me a couple of years ago. I found a bunch of people that were thinking the same things I was thinking, (who knew????) and they had a place to talk about it that brought people together from every part of America and the world. :cool:

domain name: a few dollars
hosting service: a few dollars more
RPF's: priceless

I like the idea of a newsletter highlighting the top threads of the week. I nominate RPH in charge of choosing the top threads! :D

[constituent]

r3VOLution is timeless.

I'd imagine ~90% percent of what we did, in the election campaign, was complained about, by ~10% of our users, as "doing us a disservice." Luckily, not even an army can stop an idea whose time has come...

;)
r3VOLution!!!
:D



meh like i said, sometimes it's hard to let a good cash cow go.

milk it baby.

[MsDoodahs]

meh like i said, sometimes it's hard to let a good cash cow go.

milk it baby.

:mad:

And here, folks, is a HUGE part of the problem with the forum these days.

NO amount of bumper stickers and tee shirts will save this place from becoming "just another forum cesspool" so long as certain members (cough cough *those who claim "special friend of Josh" status* cough cough) are allowed to behave this way.

:eek:

Did I just actually TYPE that?

yes. yes, I did.

:eek:

Do I have the balls to hit the "submit reply" key?

yes. yes, I do.

:p

[ronpaulhawaii]

meh like i said, sometimes it's hard to let a good cash cow go.

milk it baby.

C'mon Ryan, get bold. Start a thread in the vent or HT and elaborate on your mysterious ruminations. All I see here is pointless negativity and off topic allusions

bleh...

[Deborah K]

:mad:

And here, folks, is a huge part of the problem with the forum these days.

No amount of bumper stickers and tee shirts will save this place from becoming "just another forum cesspool" so long as certain members (cough cough *those who claim "special friend of josh" status* cough cough) are allowed to behave this way.

:eek:

Did i just actually type that?

Yes. Yes, i did.

:eek:

Do i have the balls to hit the "submit reply" key?

Yes. Yes, i do.

:p

+1776

[acptulsa]

C'mon Ryan, get bold. Start a thread in the vent or HT and elaborate on your mysterious ruminations. All I see here is pointless negativity and off topic allusions

bleh...

I've already decided he's having a bad week and is just taking it out on us. Well, what are friends for? I just hope he gets that straight before he tarnishes his good 'brand' is all...

In the end we're all human. No getting around that.

[Roxi]

I have thought for a long time you should have merch... i would totally sport a Tshirt and bumper sticker!

a lot of good ideas here! this place rocks.. I personally don't visit any other forums, other than a few times at the obama forums and the old fred thompson forums, i think im signed up at the BTM forums but i have never posted there... in fact this is the first forum i have ever frequented and I have been here for quite a while.. I feel like we are a big ol' dysfunctional happy family :D

the admins and mods do amazing jobs here..... I have a few ideas for the forums but nothing I would want to discuss here really. feel free to PM me if you like.

[pcosmar]

All I see here is pointless negativity and off topic allusions

bleh...

Perhaps I am just dense,or crude. but if I have a point to make I generally make it as bluntly and clearly as I am able.
Vague innuendo, like fog or smoke, have no substance.

[constituent]

C'mon Ryan, get bold. Start a thread in the vent or HT and elaborate on your mysterious ruminations. All I see here is pointless negativity and off topic allusions

bleh...

No mystery about it. I've made myself quite clear. The r3volution has come and gone, though I understand it's hard to let a good cash cow go.

How much clearer do you need it to be?

nothing vague, nothing off-topic. if you want this place to grow, move on. looking backward will get you nowhere, and flying under false colors does more harm than good.

[constituent]

NO amount of bumper stickers and tee shirts will save this place from becoming "just another forum cesspool" so long as certain members (cough cough *those who claim "special friend of Josh" status* cough cough) are allowed to behave this way.


when did i claim special friend of josh status?

now you're just making shit up.

[acptulsa]

I understand it's hard to let a good cash cow go.

That's the third repetition of that phrase. It's a ridiculous accusation. About as ridiculous as your intimation in another thread that Dr. Paul got rich off of the campaign and that he was only in it for the money, and your suggestion in yet another thread that we should throw Gary Johnson under the bus because he privatized a New Mexico prison during his term as governor without even checking up on the situation.

Do these things warrant scrutiny? Yes. Are they automatically damning with or without further scrutiny? No.

Now, why are you putting all this time and effort into being counterproductive lately? Why are you engaging in trollish behavior? On second thought, never mind. This good thread is sufficiently hijacked as it is. If you actually want to come out and say what's really eating you, start a thread. We'll listen.

If Josh and Bryan wanted a cash cow, they'd do something that would actually have a snowball's chance in hell of making them rich--like opening a bank--instead of wasting their time on us.

[constituent]

That's the third repetition of that phrase. It's a ridiculous accusation. About as ridiculous as your intimation in another thread that Dr. Paul got rich off of the campaign and that he was only in it for the money, and your suggestion in yet another thread that we should throw Gary Johnson under the bus because he privatized a New Mexico prison during his term as governor without even checking up on the situation.

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Though your post is off-topic, let's examine your b.s. one line at a time:



About as ridiculous as your intimation in another thread that Dr. Paul got rich off of the campaign and that he was only in it for the money

So, then you're saying ron paul didn't get some serious bank from the campaign?

W/e pollyanna.

Also, I didn't say he was in it only for the money, pure b.s. on your part.


your suggestion in yet another thread that we should throw Gary Johnson under the bus because he privatized a New Mexico prison

More bullshit, I didn't say anything about throwing Gary Johnson under the bus, but I did question the efficacy of privitizing prisons. That said, privitizing prisons aren't the real issue w/ Gary Johnson, it's his use of the NM state treasury to pay himself out on the scale of millions.

I did check into it, contrary to your suggestion, which merely proves that on the other hand, you have not.

Perhaps you should, or not, shooting the messenger is pretty popular round here.



Now, why are you putting all this time and effort into being counterproductive lately? Why are you engaging in trollish behavior? On second thought, never mind. This good thread is sufficiently hijacked as it is...


Funny, i think that helping some of you wake up to REALITY is productive. You seem to think that keeping the wool over your eyes is somehow a better solution, I don't get it.

Perhaps you can explain.

[JoshLowry]

:mad:

And here, folks, is a HUGE part of the problem with the forum these days.

NO amount of bumper stickers and tee shirts will save this place from becoming "just another forum cesspool" so long as certain members (cough cough *those who claim "special friend of Josh" status* cough cough) are allowed to behave this way.

You have a very valid and clear point

We are a "group" regardless of how much one might hate that term.

Some are here for freedom, some for peace, and some for prosperity. Let's concentrate on what we agree on rather than hash out our differences.

Constructive criticism is always welcomed, ambiguous attacks or negativity that is simply thrown out there sucks.

Constituent is a friend as he worked on a small project with me. I'd rather we get busy, spread the messages we agree on, and grow in size as a result.

We can sit around and bitch about what we don't like or who screwed some project/campaign up in the past til we turn blue in the face. Everyone has their fair share of fuck ups. This website is not going to be used for magnifying those errors. We will go in a different direction. I'd love for Ryan to help us out, but that is up to him.

[constituent]

I'd love for Ryan to help us out, but that is up to him.

Agreed, but sometimes the help folks want isn't the help they need.

Group think and unmerited cheerleading will get this place nowhere and will only hurt in the long run.

Rather than folks going ape shit in attack mode over it, perhaps they should take the time to slow down and consider other perspectives.

[acptulsa]

Funny, i think that helping some of you wake up to REALITY is productive. You seem to think that keeping the wool over your eyes is somehow a better solution, I don't get it.

Perhaps you can explain.

Yeah, Ryan, I can explain. This is my country, I remember how it used to be, and it ain't dead yet. In fact, I think I see how it can be guided back onto the right path. And while there's a better chance than a snowball has in hell, I'm there.

And I say to you, lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.

Now, what's really your beef? Because none of these smoke screen bitches you just enumerated explains your shift in behavior. Start a thread or stop bugging us for attention. Good things still get done here. Maybe getting the governor of Missouri to retract a bunch of SPLC bull isn't quite the same as getting our troops out of Iraq, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worthwhile. And I say the people of this forum had a heavy hand in that, or Catherine Bleisch wouldn't have invested so much of her valuable time here during the heart of that mess. Call that wooly eyes if you want. I disagree.

[JoshLowry]

Agreed, but sometimes the help folks want isn't the help they need.

Group think and unmerited cheerleading will get this place nowhere and will only hurt in the long run.

Rather than folks going ape shit in attack mode over it, perhaps they should take the time to slow down and consider other perspectives.

We are a group. You are a member of a website that was started to promote freedom, prosperity, and peace.

It is inescapable unless you leave.

Rallying together during this lull is not unmerited cheerleading.

[constituent]

Yeah, Ryan, I can explain. This is my country, I remember how it used to be, and it ain't dead yet. In fact, I think I see how it can be guided back onto the right path. And while there's a better chance than a snowball has in hell, I'm there.

And I say to you, lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.

Now, what's really your beef? Because none of these smoke screen bitches you just enumerated explains your shift in behavior. Start a thread or stop bugging us for attention. Good things still get done here. Maybe getting the governor of Missouri to retract a bunch of SPLC bull isn't quite the same as getting our troops out of Iraq, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worthwhile. And I say the people of this forum had a heavy hand in that, or Catherine Bleisch wouldn't have invested so much of her valuable time here during the heart of that mess. Call that wooly eyes if you want. I disagree.



wtf are you talking about?

more obfuscatory b.s.

bugging you for attention? i'm just posting here, you are to. Does that mean you're begging for attention?

[JoshLowry]

Please keep in mind the intent of this thread.

Add any ideas or constructive criticism. We've actually got a ton of great feedback already, feel free to add on to it.

I think our mod team conference call should be held this weekend.

Thanks again.

[constituent]

Rallying together during this lull is not unmerited cheerleading.

If the rallying is behind causes that run counter to liberty, or for politicians with Achilles' hills the size of texas, well then it certainly can be.

Though I understand pollyanna syndrome makes for happy workers, working for the wrong cause is counterproductive.

Also, back on topic, to grow the libertyforest mods like msd should perhaps consider the image they project of themselves and the institution they serve when attacking fellow posters and forum admin.

[acptulsa]

Also, back on topic, to grow the libertyforest mods like msd should perhaps consider the image they project of themselves and the institution they serve when attacking fellow posters and forum admin.

She sounds as feisty, passionate and libertarian as ever to me. She isn't someone who has changed.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=102451&highlight=WOODSHED

[rpfan2008]

Youtubes can get you lot of new traffic...

[MsDoodahs]

yeah, ryan, i can explain. This is my country, i remember how it used to be, and it ain't dead yet. In fact, i think i see how it can be guided back onto the right path. And while there's a better chance than a snowball has in hell, i'm there.

And i say to you, lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.

Now, what's really your beef? Because none of these smoke screen bitches you just enumerated explains your shift in behavior. Start a thread or stop bugging us for attention. Good things still get done here. Maybe getting the governor of missouri to retract a bunch of splc bull isn't quite the same as getting our troops out of iraq, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worthwhile. And i say the people of this forum had a heavy hand in that, or catherine bleisch wouldn't have invested so much of her valuable time here during the heart of that mess. Call that wooly eyes if you want. I disagree.

hell yes.

[JoshLowry]

If the rallying is behind causes that run counter to liberty, or for politicians with Achilles' hills the size of texas, well then it certainly can be.

Though I understand pollyanna syndrome makes for happy workers, working for the wrong cause is counterproductive.

Well then don't participate if you believe the people here are working together for corrupt causes. You are a volunteer. Whatever you decide, I'd prefer you not be an obstruction.

I'd personally like to start a number of projects and campaigns that everyone can voluntarily join in on. Possibly do some type of badge system for members to add to their profiles. Battle scars so to speak. I want to have fun again.


Also, back on topic, to grow the libertyforest mods like msd should perhaps consider the image they project of themselves and the institution they serve when attacking fellow posters and forum admin.She's being constructive about it and made a good point imo.

[constituent]

Well then don't participate if you believe the people here are working together for corrupt causes. You are a volunteer. Whatever you decide, I'd prefer you not be an obstruction.

I'd personally like to start a number of projects and campaigns that everyone can voluntarily join in on. Possibly do some type of badge system for members to add to their profiles. Battle scars so to speak. I want to have fun again.

She's being constructive about it and made a good point imo.

peace.

anyway to do a bulk export of posts, i was thinking of pulling them together and editing them into a number of larger essays? any help you can provide would be appreciated. after that, if you want to delete my account or ban it, that's cool with me.

[JoshLowry]

peace.

anyway to do a bulk export of posts, i was thinking of pulling them together and editing them into a number of larger essays? any help you can provide would be appreciated. after that, if you want to delete my account or ban it, that's cool with me.

No intention of banning your account. That's silly. I'd love for you to stick around and contribute.

PM me if you need some posts, not sure what you're talking about.

Either way, take care.

[Ninja Homer]

It's funny how this thread has turned into a perfect example of one of the biggest problems this forum has.

Off topic posts and personal attacks have led to a deterioration of the thread. Taken as a whole, it leads to a deterioration of the forum.

[Kraig]

Since someone mentioned youtubes, why not make a weekly campaign for liberty video featuring a weekly recap of topics and news that has been discussed on these forums, and some light news analysis done with a libertarian mindset, with a link to the website at the end. This would get the current news out there, as well as bits and pieces of the bigger picture of tyranny that is taking over the country, it would get some name recognition out there for C4L, and maybe some new members. The videos would be sent to the site owner for approval before they go live. What do you guys think?

[acptulsa]

Since someone mentioned youtubes, why not make a weekly campaign for liberty video featuring a weekly recap of topics and news that has been discussed on these forums, and some light news analysis done with a libertarian mindset, with a link to the website at the end. This would get the current news out there, as well as bits and pieces of the bigger picture of tyranny that is taking over the country, it would get some name recognition out there for C4L, and maybe some new members. The videos would be sent to the site owner for approval before they go live. What do you guys think?

My initial reaction is I love it! Only question I have so far is, are we going to run into copyright trouble on the snippets we use? You can link to a website without risking copyright infringement, but a link in the middle of a vid won't work.

Will we be able to get enough material?

If so, I'll gladly help write scripts for the voiceovers.

If not, perhaps the 'newsletter' idea would be better as a 'digest' available from the main menu, with highlights from some of the threads cut and pasted in.


Off topic posts and personal attacks have led to a deterioration of the thread. Taken as a whole, it leads to a deterioration of the forum.

I agree that's a pain. But I disagree that it's something new...

[Ninja Homer]

I agree that's a pain. But I disagree that it's something new...

It's not a new thing, but it is something that should be remedied as much as possible.

[Kraig]

Only question I have so far is, are we going to run into copyright trouble on the snippets we use?

Yeah I'm not sure how that works either, I mean we all see people doing it all the time on youtube, I am just wondering if it is legal or illegal but not enforced. Definitely want to be careful with that when the site could potentially be taking the risk.

[acptulsa]

Yeah I'm not sure how that works either, I mean we all see people doing it all the time on youtube, I am just wondering if it is legal or illegal but not enforced. Definitely want to be careful with that when the site could potentially be taking the risk.

Well, damn it, it's a great idea even if it doesn't get put on a vid site. Sure, putting it on a vid site would be better for viewership faster. But I, for one, consider this forum a great news digest--and actually setting up a news digest as such here would be even more convenient, which would allow it to draw more people who can't or won't spend more time here.

As such, it might take longer to catch on, but I feel sure it will. And I can think of many people I'd direct to it who wouldn't so much appreciate the forum as a whole.

[Kraig]

Well, damn it, it's a great idea even if it doesn't get put on a vid site. Sure, putting it on a vid site would be better for viewership faster. But I, for one, consider this forum a great news digest--and actually setting up a news digest as such here would be even more convenient, which would allow it to draw more people who can't or won't spend more time here.

As such, it might take longer to catch on, but I feel sure it will. And I can think of many people I'd direct to it who wouldn't so much appreciate the forum as a whole.

Yeah that would work to, I think if they hosted them here their bandwidth usage would go up quite a bit though. I agree too, in most cases I find the "news" here before anywhere else, that is one thing that really makes this site so great.

[acptulsa]

Yeah that would work to, I think if they hosted them here their bandwidth usage would go up quite a bit though.

Isn't that what we're after? The Corvette doesn't make Chevrolet any money, but they keep making it because it brings in showroom traffic. Who knows how many Camaros it has sold?

The analogy isn't perfect, but you get the idea. Perform a useful service, and as long as someone's there and on days when they have a little extra time, they could well poke around--and learn something. Like we aren't all rich, heartless monsters like Daily Kos says...

[ewizacft]

what about give every thread two categories... one is for new users and one is for users with over 1,000 posts and anytime someone posts in that thread anything that a moderator thinks would drive away a new user, bring down the mod hammer and either get the user to edit the post or put that post/thread into the category only the 1,000 post users can see.

use the existing temp ban/warning for anyone who continuously posts comments that change the thread from a 'general viewing' thread to a '1000 post user thread'.

not perfect, but adapt?

Some of us do not have 1,000 posts. Someone else stated there would be a lot of useless posts to get to 1,000. Mark it down, it would happen.

[acptulsa]

Some of us do not have 1,000 posts. Someone else stated there would be a lot of useless posts to get to 1,000. Mark it down, it would happen.

Yeah, thanks for reminding me. If we start doing any kind of segregation, we'll have to divide 'senior members' from regular members differently--like by length of membership, rather than by post count.

I meant to say that earlier but got distracted. Thanks for chiming in.

[hotbrownsauce]

wow you have 11,412 posts acptulsa! I only have 920 :P
Good idea on the Senior Member thing.

[acptulsa]

wow you have 11,412 posts acptulsa! I only have 920 :P
Good idea on the Senior Member thing.

Yeh, hope I'm not too enamored with the sound of my own voice...

But I had that thought last night while half awake, and I can't believe I forgot to say it. There are people with a dozen posts I trust more than those with thousands. Let's not discriminate against those who aren't as verbose as me!

[JoshLowry]

Some of us do not have 1,000 posts. Someone else stated there would be a lot of useless posts to get to 1,000. Mark it down, it would happen.

Agreed. Maybe we could make it 10 - 20 posts before being able to view hot topics and the vent?

[Kludge]

Agreed. Maybe we could make it 10 - 20 posts before being able to view hot topics and the vent?

What if a new member creates a thread that is moved to HT/Vent?

[JoshLowry]

What if a new member creates a thread that is moved to HT/Vent?

Yea, not sure if it's even a good policy.

:o

We'll hash it out on the phone.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Some of us do not have 1,000 posts. Someone else stated there would be a lot of useless posts to get to 1,000. Mark it down, it would happen.


Agreed. Maybe we could make it 10 - 20 posts before being able to view hot topics and the vent?

:)


What if a new member creates a thread that is moved to HT/Vent?

How about; if a new member immediately starts by creating threads that need to be moved to HT, a pm explaining, "we are very careful with such content and it would be best if they established themselves a bit more before engaging the membership in these type dicussions, thanks..." or sumptin lidat?

[JoshLowry]

:)



How about; if a new member immediately starts by creating threads that need to be moved to HT, a pm explaining, "we are very careful with such content and it would be best if they established themselves a bit more before engaging the membership in these type dicussions, thanks..." or sumptin lidat?

Sounds pretty reasonable...

We can even set it up so that a new user can post but not create a new thread til they have x amount of posts. I'd like to keep it minimal like 5 or 10 posts if we did that.

[GunnyFreedom]

could we look into the following:

Need programmer able to code new kind of forum (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=157303)

[rancher89]

How would Gunny's idea work on a national level?

Or is it a District/State tool FIRST and then adapted to a national level when fully implemented?

[evilfunnystuff]

id totaly wear a t shirt especially if it had a cool creative design/picture

i wouldnt put a bumper sticker on my car but i would find places to stick em

ya id distribute slim jims

liberty forest or rp forums hmmm

i think rp forums as its easier to remeber and it lets people know we mean real liberty not the william jefferson bush or obama bin biden type lol

[acptulsa]

How would Gunny's idea work on a national level?

Or is it a District/State tool FIRST and then adapted to a national level when fully implemented?

I don't know, but after seeing McCain win the nomination because all the conservatives in the G.O.P. split their votes four or five ways, I'm ready to try it or anything else that looks promising.

[nayjevin]

could we look into the following:

Need programmer able to code new kind of forum (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=157303)

your idea looks very cool but it is so far above my head I think it would need to be completed before I would have any idea how I could have contributed to it :)

[GunnyFreedom]

How would Gunny's idea work on a national level?

Or is it a District/State tool FIRST and then adapted to a national level when fully implemented?

With software you could just put it everywhere you've got access, and can make subscribers. National, State, District, County, Precinct. Purpose to develop a deep connection with the general grassroots, and maintain live platforms and resolves in an ongoing cyber-convention.

The Liberty Forest caucus structure would be totally C4L-like non-partisan, I think.

[GunnyFreedom]

I don't know, but after seeing McCain win the nomination because all the conservatives in the G.O.P. split their votes four or five ways, I'm ready to try it or anything else that looks promising.

I basically want to create a live, two way connection between grassroots and power; and use it to push Constitutional Originalism from the grassroots up.

Feed and nurture the grassroots with actionable information and resources, and encourage the grassroots to take charge of our Party/Republic.

I don't trust the man, but what Beck said is true, there are more of us than there are of them, and if we all work together we can overrun the ones who decide not to help.

If 'we' can come to a consensus, then we can do almost anything. Even fly a blimp for a mostly unknown and off-written Presidential Candidate.

[bunklocoempire]

To answer the original post.


Why is it that our members who post here create threads that are geared for promoting CFL more often than RPF/LF?Not sure about this.

Are the forums really that much more extreme than the content on CFL? Guests can not view hot topics nor most of our infighting.The forums/topics seem extreme at first to the newbie with knee-jerk reactions. This from my own experiance. The knee-jerk factor lost or "un-brainwashing" happens over time.

Would you wear a RPF/LF shirt? Put a bumper sticker on your car? Pass out LF/RPF Slim Jims if they were already designed?Yes.

Would you have a preference promoting Liberty Forest or Ron Paul Forums?Liberty Forest with reference to Ron Paul Forums

I'm sure if we have a 2012 run then this site will spread like wild fire once again. However, I'd like to see us make some good steady growth until that time comes. It's also good to do this because Ron Paul might not run and then we can make a complete transition to a stronger and better Liberty Forest.

How do you think we can best grow this community for the future?By having "stickies" that are un-postable showing the SIMILARITIES of the two major parties. Debt for debt, anti-sovereignty for anti-sovereignty, Liberty grabbing for Liberty grabbing, etc..

Thanks!

:)

A majority of my posts across the forums I visit are to show the similarities of the two major parties, I believe it is “marketable” as more than a few folks have come around and “seen the light”.

IMO, the great success of “news” has been due to outrage and fear, always dividing. I believe fed up folks from every side would eat this up, that is, an easily referenced “similarity” page showing there are no real differences in party policies.

Educate ‘em, outrage ‘em, scare them, divide them (against Liberty grabbing), and show them a Constitutional solution that requires bravery and sacrifice.

Minus the education part, this strategy has been shown to work daily –for a long time now. It works to destroy Liberty, it can be used to promote Liberty.

Show the similarities of Liberty grabbing at the top, show the similarities of Liberty loving at the bottom.

(Where do I send the bill for my consulting services? OR, free advice is worth as much...):D





Bunkloco

[PrairieQueen]

Just a few quick thoughts from a "lurker" but not necessarily a "newbie".

Senior members and those that have been a part of this movement for a long time need to be patient and kind and respectful to those that come here with differing views. I was brought here from someone on another forum who was a Ron Paul supporter - not directly - she just peaked my interest with what she was saying and I started doing some research. But she was never critical of my "Republicaness". This has been a year and a half ago and I still don't always agree with everything here. BE PATIENT.

And you will never ever get everyone to think alike. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree.

Also, people have busy lives. I started reading Atlas Shrugged three weeks ago and I am not even through the first section yet. It is hard to take the time needed to do a lot of the reading and research. Sometimes the threads are the best research, but when they turn into bashing, it is hard to stay interested. There really needs to be more of an an atmosphere of learning and friendliness.

I lurked here for a good year before even creating an account. Then was very hesitant to ever post when I had questions or wanted clarification. This place can be very intimidating. It just doesn't seem very "welcoming".

Also, doesn't this movement promote the idea of personal responsibility? This poster on the other forum I was on had a signature that read something to the effect of "with freedom comes responsibility" or something like that. Maybe those that join here need to be reminded of this when posting here.

Also, when searching for "Libertarian" forums this site does not come up. Someone has to be looking specifically for "Ron Paul" forums. Actually, only a few come up under "Libertarian" also and they do not seem to have much traffic. Somehow I think there needs to be something that brings up this forum more.

Sorry about the rambling thoughts, but just my perspective from someone who is not a real active poster.

[acptulsa]

Sorry about the rambling thoughts, but just my perspective from someone who is not a real active poster.

Don't apologize, please. Doesn't matter how closely related they are or aren't, they're all fine points imo.

You gave me a thought. We've been struggling with the notion of a flame-free n00b zone to compliment our hot and heavy think tank. PQ made me realize that a Q and A section might be the best way to do this. Let anyone post a question and let people answer them, maybe argue a bit or post links to other threads when the issue is one that remains up in the air. And as long as the original poster just asks the question, maybe with a followup for clarification but respectfully, declare it a no-flame zone.

Is it possible to ban members from a particular subforum without banning them outright, or does this software not know how to do that? If so, impatient people can be banned from the n00b Q & A zone without being banned completely. Or, people posting questions can be asked to flag the post when they have their question answered to their satisfaction and the mods (if they agree the question is well-answered) can lock it immediately.

'Ask a Libertarian'? You're a represenative of the target audience, PQ, not me. What do you think? Anyone?

[evilfunnystuff]

Don't apologize, please. Doesn't matter how closely related they are or aren't, they're all fine points imo.

You gave me a thought. We've been struggling with the notion of a flame-free n00b zone to compliment our hot and heavy think tank. PQ made me realize that a Q and A section might be the best way to do this. Let anyone post a question and let people answer them, maybe argue a bit or post links to other threads when the issue is one that remains up in the air. And as long as the original poster just asks the question, maybe with a followup for clarification but respectfully, declare it a no-flame zone.

Is it possible to ban members from a particular subforum without banning them outright, or does this software not know how to do that? If so, impatient people can be banned from the n00b Q & A zone without being banned completely. Or, people posting questions can be asked to flag the post when they have their question answered to their satisfaction and the mods (if they agree the question is well-answered) can lock it immediately.


'Ask a Libertarian'? You're a represenative of the target audience, PQ, not me. What do you think? Anyone?

thats a damn good idea

[PrairieQueen]

'Ask a Libertarian'? You're a represenative of the target audience, PQ, not me. What do you think? Anyone?

That sounds like a good idea. :)

[rancher89]

I third it!

[acptulsa]

We might have to set it up so senior members can't start threads in it. Hate to surpress Kludge's sense of humor, but...

[GunnyFreedom]

I like the idea of segmenting access. I think it fits with the caucus platform too.

Set three levels of responsibility, with according posting and moderation discretion. A lot like the three shells. Exec committee, Project comittees, Convention of members, outward in that order.

Take the same model, and RPF will present to the 'outer court' our best consensus, and still keep the vital shocking heavy debate a level above those who aren't looking for it specifically.

Wiki/caucus to a consensus, open to the public.

Debate political philosophies and policy and practice at mid tier

Committee/Chair forum operations at executive tier.

Same model.

[He Who Pawns]

shirt might be nice.

[cheapseats]

id totaly wear a t shirt especially if it had a cool creative design/picture




REAFFIRM INDEPENDENCE
WASHINGTON DC, July 4th

[Theocrat]

Maybe there could be a "Libert Forest Radio" program, and that could be used to springboard more growth here. All you would need to do is find some sponsors to invest in the program. You could even broadcast the program on the forum here, instead of starting a new website.

[nayjevin]

Maybe there could be a "Libert Forest Radio" program, and that could be used to springboard more growth here. All you would need to do is find some sponsors to invest in the program. You could even broadcast the program on the forum here, instead of starting a new website.

good idea! or TV, or LibertySecondLife :)

I would so love to virtual reality 3D samurai battle some of you folks sometimes :D

[JoshLowry]

BTW our conference call got pushed back to this weekend so keep the ideas coming.

Thanks all!

[nayjevin]

- Set up a bank / paypal / escrow account or something

- Take donations from members into that account, transparently

- Have a video contest / essay contest / flyer contest etc <-- (Roxi's idea - could be bumper sticker designs or LibertyForest T-shirt designs)

- Have users vote somehow on the best ones - have some kind of system where no set number of winning entries is pre-determined, but all entries that 'pass the grade' (some percentage of 'yes' votes? 2/3 supermajority?) become official LibertyForest media material, to be displayed in some central place. Perhaps give mods 2 votes and Josh 3 votes or something since it is private property? Perhaps just give josh veto power in case he feels a 'winning' entry doesn't reflect well on his property?

- divide the money in the account (minus 10% or so for the forum?) among the makers of the winning entries.

- do it periodically for each type of media and in the interim, make a sticky or something, and make distributing those winning entries a top priority for forum members (digg, FB, coffeeshops, etc etc)

- suggested guidelines for voting? i.e. 'Consider the relevance / importance of the topic of the entry'

- or, have the contest be specific to a relevant topic, like 'state sovereignty flyer contest' or 'promoting Liberty Forest video' or 'promoting CFL essay' or something like that

- perhaps only donators get a vote?

- perhaps vote power is based on amount of donation? (Roxi sez -- no good, amount of money available shouldn't dictate power.)

- perhaps donation amount is a set $10 or something (similar to Liberty Straw Poll)?

- perhaps only 50% (or whatever) of donation money is split among makers, with the rest going somewhere else? (like toward promoting the next one, or unforseen fees, or to purchase a newspaper ad or radio ad or banner on this forum or to pile up for a bigger cause, or to donate to a cause related to the contest, i.e. to CFL for CFL contest, etc)

- should those who have entries be allowed to vote?

- how to guard against folks with multiple accounts?

- use a 1-10 scaling system as opposed to a simple yes/no vote?

[hotbrownsauce]

Several of us used team speak to talk to one another online here on RPF before. That was fun and connected a lot of people. One guy was in New Zealand or something. Anyway, I like the idea of a simple voice chat or RPF Liberty Radio.

I wish I had enough time for me to host something like that... because I might.

[Shiekyerbooty]

Hmmm, I hesitated to post here because I felt any criticism from a newcomer would not be appreciated or taken seriously. However, I am going to put my two zinc cents worth in anyway. I think this site is pretty awesome, no doubt, there were some great intentions when this site began......to be honest, however, when it comes down to the nitty gritty...this site, instead of being a bastion of freedom, has become just another social site, where ego's are stroked and time is wasted. If you really wish to grow the forum, dedicate it to liberty and not to your egos.

[phill4paul]

Hmmm, I hesitated to post here because I felt any criticism from a newcomer would not be appreciated or taken seriously. However, I am going to put my two zinc cents worth in anyway. I think this site is pretty awesome, no doubt, there were some great intentions when this site began......to be honest, however, when it comes down to the nitty gritty...this site, instead of being a bastion of freedom, has become just another social site, where ego's are stroked and time is wasted. If you really wish to grow the forum, dedicate it to liberty and not to your egos.

I have a hard time believing that you are newcomer with such thoughtful insights.
You sound like someone that has been here for awhile.:)

[acptulsa]

Hmmm, I hesitated to post here because I felt any criticism from a newcomer would not be appreciated or taken seriously. However, I am going to put my two zinc cents worth in anyway. I think this site is pretty awesome, no doubt, there were some great intentions when this site began......to be honest, however, when it comes down to the nitty gritty...this site, instead of being a bastion of freedom, has become just another social site, where ego's are stroked and time is wasted. If you really wish to grow the forum, dedicate it to liberty and not to your egos.

Man does not live by bread alone. And all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. Quite honestly, we're bad enough about boring people without sticking our noses myopically to the grindstone. We know how to strike when our iron's hot, thank you.

[nayjevin]

Hmmm, I hesitated to post here because I felt any criticism from a newcomer would not be appreciated or taken seriously. However, I am going to put my two zinc cents worth in anyway. I think this site is pretty awesome, no doubt, there were some great intentions when this site began......to be honest, however, when it comes down to the nitty gritty...this site, instead of being a bastion of freedom, has become just another social site, where ego's are stroked and time is wasted. If you really wish to grow the forum, dedicate it to liberty and not to your egos.

thing is, any change is up to the action of the individuals involved, so a blanket statement such as this doesn't achieve much, although I do appreciate what you seem to see as an ideal goal for this forum.

[nayjevin]

bump for brainstorms

[paulim]

Ok, some cents from me:
My point is about distortion and that members loose desire for posting if they can't stay on the topic.

The banning of members with high post-counts in the last time showed at least (if it was justified in the first place to ban, what I don't judge), that it took month and years to get to such a decision by the moderators. If it was justified in cases it took a little long, if it was wrong in cases there was no discussion about it. I personally dislike the method of secretively flagging posts and to take no open responsibillity. If someone distorts a thread, others can use the thread to make it clear. If a certain member doesn't stop to distort, he will soon get a trial on the forums. Necessary for that is that members have a better memory of distortions of the past. Therefore I propose a new board-function if possible.
The ignore-list is useless. The discussion why is already on the forum. Worse is, the list has no memory, soon you forget why you put a member on the list. Too many users to remember the incident, at least for me. Therefore there must be the possibilty to attach private information to each user. Your own related list, notepad. Then you have immediatly all links available to remind him of his history of: hijacking a thread, argumentations that already failed, ...
Some very clever members say: 'Oh no, a free market is when the owner decides' But thats not a theater and not the decision which play to perform - its a forum, the content is the quality of the discussion. I'm quite sure the owners and moderators would like to see the free market work on the forums, without too much moderation.
Imagine another run of RP, and of how much benefit it would be to have users with a memory, otherwise the same mistakes will occur again and the forum will be once again a place flooded with useless stuff, leaving no space for sincere efforts.

Furthermore the concept of temporary banning should be in increased, the ancient Greeks invented for example that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism

[nayjevin]

Ok, some cents from me:
My point is about distortion and that members loose desire for posting if they can't stay on the topic.

The banning of members with high post-counts in the last time showed at least (if it was justified in the first place to ban, what I don't judge), that it took month and years to get to such a decision by the moderators. If it was justified in cases it took a little long, if it was wrong in cases there was no discussion about it. I personally dislike the method of secretively flagging posts and to take no open responsibillity. If someone distorts a thread, others can use the thread to make it clear. If a certain member doesn't stop to distort, he will soon get a trial on the forums. Necessary for that is that members have a better memory of distortions of the past. Therefore I propose a new board-function if possible.
The ignore-list is useless. The discussion why is already on the forum. Worse is, the list has no memory, soon you forget why you put a member on the list. Too many users to remember the incident, at least for me. Therefore there must be the possibilty to attach private information to each user. Your own related list, notepad. Then you have immediatly all links available to remind him of his history of: hijacking a thread, argumentations that already failed, ...
Some very clever members say: 'Oh no, a free market is when the owner decides' But thats not a theater and not the decision which play to perform - its a forum, the content is the quality of the discussion. I'm quite sure the owners and moderators would like to see the free market work on the forums, without too much moderation.
Imagine another run of RP, and of how much benefit it would be to have users with a memory, otherwise the same mistakes will occur again and the forum will be once again a place flooded with useless stuff, leaving no space for sincere efforts.

Furthermore the concept of temporary banning should be in increased, the ancient Greeks invented for example that: [/URL][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism)

good thoughts - your idea reminds me of playing poker online - let's you take notes on each player for future use.

also (although this may not be practical in implementation) I would like to see what other users I trust think about a person with the click of a mouse. there are some 'karma' and 'kudos' functions at some sites which are kind of what i'm talking about, but I have yet to see one that I think is accurate enough to be relied upon.

[Roxi]

it would be super awesome if the search feature were better


LIKE: if i want to search for all threads including a poll

or if i want to search for members by certain things, like post count, or location, etc...

[Roxi]

bump

[Roxi]

Ok, some cents from me:
the possibilty to attach private information to each user. Your own related list, notepad. Then you have immediatly all links available to remind him of his history of: hijacking a thread, argumentations that already failed,

Furthermore the concept of temporary banning should be in increased,


good ideas

[disorderlyvision]

Anything come of this? I would be down for a bumper sticker and possibly a shirt depending on the design.

[DapperDan]

Promoting C4L and other liberty movements is great but as far as RPF/LF I would enjoy sporting a shirt, bumber sticker, etc. Maybe have a professional ad/link to facebook/digg/etc.

If I can find some time to sit down and sketch some stuff up during my job search this week, I can throw in my drawings for thought/criticism. Hell maybe I can attempt to find my photoshop skills again....but I first need a copy of it for my new computer :(

Any other artists on these boards?