TSA responds to audio of C4L member being detained at airport for carrying cash.

[MRoCkEd]

http://www.tsa.gov/graphics/tsa_logo.gif
The TSA has responded to this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMB6L487LHM) in its blog here (http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/04/incident-at-st-louis-international.html).


At approximately 6:50 p.m. on March 29, 2009, a metal box alarmed the X-ray machine at Lambert-St. Louis International Airport, triggering the need for additional screening. Because the box contained a number of items including a large amount of cash, all of which needed to be removed to be properly screened, it was deemed more appropriate to continue the screening process in a private area. A Transportation Security Administration (TSA) employee and members of the St. Louis Airport Police Department can be heard on the audio recording. The tone and language used by the TSA employee was inappropriate. TSA holds its employees to the highest professional standards. TSA will continue to investigate this matter and take appropriate action.

Movements of large amounts of cash through the checkpoint may be investigated by law enforcement authorities if criminal activity is suspected. As a general rule, passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process. Cooperation may involve answering questions about their property, including why they are carrying a large sum of cash. A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry.

They apologize for the language used, but not for the action taken. The blog's comments (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=2336044328955501444&postID=788282837782521086) seem to be on our side with posts like this:

I thought the role of TSA screeners was to keep us safe from violence and terrorism when flying. Is the TSA concerned someone might try to hijack an airplane using a stack of $20's?

[torchbearer]

This part right here:

Movements of large amounts of cash through the checkpoint may be investigated by law enforcement authorities if criminal activity is suspected. As a general rule, passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process. Cooperation may involve answering questions about their property, including why they are carrying a large sum of cash. A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry.

Is a blatant violation of the 4th amendment. Without a warrant from a judge and just cause... you are to be secure in your self and your belongings.
If this was a private company doing this as apart of you using their service, it would be different.
This is the government doing it... which makes it a violation.

[MRoCkEd]

But they are keeping us safe! :rolleyes:

[ItsTime]

How much in cash did he have?

[Mahkato]

How much in cash did he have?

And why didn't he donate it to Campaign for Liberty? :D

[ronpaulhawaii]

How much in cash did he have?


And why didn't he donate it to Campaign for Liberty? :D

haha - it was donation/booksale receipts to CfL

Doesn't really matter how much. It is not illegal, nor threatening, to carry most any amount of paper on domestic flights...

$4700...

The blog is interesting, seems like there might be lots of opportunities for some straight talking developing...

[ItsTime]

Well I know its not illegal to carry money and all that I just was wondering how much they thought was a lot.

[phill4paul]

As a general rule, passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process.

RULES do not trump RIGHTS!

[angelatc]

The CFL should be jumping all over this! Pile on loudly - take this as yet another admission.
They aren't just looking for bombs. They are spying on us.

This is really quite remarkable. The TSA rarely responds to anything.

[fr33domfightr]

So, if you carry the cash it's bad, but if its an electronic transfer its OK?? Not that the transfer means anything.


FF

[torchbearer]

This is somewhat related, a family friend was just arrest on suspicion of running a theft ring because they found $250,000 in his home safe.
The guy doesn't believe in banks, lives a frugal life in the country, and saves his money.
I know the guy, he didn't do any of the shit they are saying... but its this obsession with law enforcement and people who hold on to their own cash.

[ronpaulhawaii]

This is somewhat related, a family friend was just arrest on suspicion of running a theft ring because they found $250,000 in his home safe.
The guy doesn't believe in banks, lives a frugal life in the country, and saves his money.
I know the guy, he didn't do any of the shit they are saying... but its this obsession with law enforcement and people who hold on to their own cash.

Any obvious reasons for the harassment?

[fr33domfightr]

This is somewhat related, a family friend was just arrest on suspicion of running a theft ring because they found $250,000 in his home safe.
The guy doesn't believe in banks, lives a frugal life in the country, and saves his money.
I know the guy, he didn't do any of the shit they are saying... but its this obsession with law enforcement and people who hold on to their own cash.


If I were that guy, I'd get a lawyer extremely fast. I'd heard in the past about something like this happening to someone and the DEA/FBI(?) took all the money, and accused him of wrong-doing. Now he's got to prove his innocense before he can get his cash back. As far as I know, he still hasn't gotten it back.

I think this comes from their supposed legal authority to confiscate assets. I totally disagree with it though. Things get taken which may have never been associated with some illegal act, and in this case, with somethone who was never convicted.


FF

[torchbearer]

Any obvious reasons for the harassment?

We have some theories.
He does run a pawn shop, but we believe the owner of the pawn shop (who also has a chain of them in Houston), may have used him as a scapegoat to cover his dirty business.
I did work for the guy, he is my dad's best friend. That guy wasn't running a theft ring.
And they put it all in the news like he did this shit. NO trial, nothing.

The same thing happened to my sister's husband. He had a night club here. He is the most clean cut guy, former air force. He was making $10,000 a night with his new club, putting another established club out of business.
The cops raided his place, took all the cash from his safe and his gun. The news proclaimed that the cops had busted a major drug ring. We were like WTF?
As of yet, he hasn't been charged with anything... he is suing the sheriffs dept for $250 million. They kept raiding his place afterwards and people stopped going to his bar- so eventually he shut down. (I must mentioned he is 'dark skinned' and had 'dark skinned' patrons in his bar. The deputies made comments like- this is what you get with these kind of people)

These asshole cops are getting stupid on good people I know.. and I've about had it.

[torchbearer]

If I were that guy, I'd get a lawyer extremely fast. I'd heard in the past about something like this happening to someone and the DEA/FBI(?) took all the money, and accused him of wrong-doing. Now he's got to prove his innocense before he can get his cash back. As far as I know, he still hasn't gotten it back.

I think this comes from their supposed legal authority to confiscate assets. I totally disagree with it though. Things get taken which may have never been associated with some illegal act, and in this case, with somethone who was never convicted.


FF

Yeah, we helped him get a good attorney, a guy who is the former D.A.

[angelatc]

Back to the TSA comments - look at this, posted by an employee! Somebody should screen cap this - I don't know how!


Anonymous TSORon said...

RB, it is against the law to take $10,000 or more in cash out of the country. Has been for a long time. You can disagree with my other statement as much as you like, the fact is that I am correct.

No, he isn't! These people are dangerous!

[torchbearer]

We have some theories.
He does run a pawn shop, but we believe the owner of the pawn shop (who also has a chain of them in Houston), may have used him as a scapegoat to cover his dirty business.
I did work for the guy, he is my dad's best friend. That guy wasn't running a theft ring.
And they put it all in the news like he did this shit. NO trial, nothing.

The same thing happened to my sister's husband. He had a night club here. He is the most clean cut guy, former air force. He was making $10,000 a night with his new club, putting another established club out of business.
The cops raided his place, took all the cash from his safe and his gun. The news proclaimed that the cops had busted a major drug ring. We were like WTF?
As of yet, he hasn't been charged with anything... he is suing the sheriffs dept for $250 million. They kept raiding his place afterwards and people stopped going to his bar- so eventually he shut down. (I must mentioned he is 'dark skinned' and had 'dark skinned' patrons in his bar. The deputies made comments like- this is what you get with these kind of people)

These asshole cops are getting stupid on good people I know.. and I've about had it.



Here is a video of the raid... I believe this one shows the cops pushing people in from the parking lot. One girl broke her arm: http://wesawthat.blogspot.com/2007/03/club-retro-raid-video.html
They had cameras all over the bar, and security was tight. No one got in with drugs.
The cops were so stupid that they didn't realize they were taped. He removed the tapes and gave them to his attorney.
The cops later returned for the tapes, but they weren't there anymore.
We got them good on that raid. They fucked up big on that one.

[Cowlesy]

Back to the TSA comments - look at this, posted by an employee! Somebody should screen cap this - I don't know how!



No, he isn't! These people are dangerous!

What is the law on this?

I thought there was something about how you had to declare you had it or something?

[angelatc]

What is the law on this?

I thought there was something about how you had to declare you had it or something?

Yes, you do have to declare over $10,000. He is responding to a person who made that point!

[surf]

$10,000 is a magic figure. i was a teller back in the day - 1987 i believe, and an individual brought in $10,000 cash to deposit the day the rule was instituted (or close to it). i told him that he'd have to fill out a bunch of paperwork if he deposited that much cash, so he took $100 dollars out, and deposited $9900. he then deposited $100 w/someone else and i made certain that i didn't see him do this.... someone later told me that i'd "broken a law" by encouraging him to do this, but i'm a libertarian, so i didn't give a f#ck.

i was not going to be (and will not be) an agent for the government.

btw, i hadn't heard that the CFL guy was carrying this in a metal box.

[torchbearer]

$10,000 is a magic figure. i was a teller back in the day - 1987 i believe, and an individual brought in $10,000 cash to deposit the day the rule was instituted (or close to it). i told him that he'd have to fill out a bunch of paperwork if he deposited that much cash, so he took $100 dollars out, and deposited $9900. he then deposited $100 w/someone else and i made certain that i didn't see him do this.... someone later told me that i'd "broken a law" by encouraging him to do this, but i'm a libertarian, so i didn't give a f#ck.

i was not going to be (and will not be) an agent for the government.

btw, i hadn't heard that the CFL guy was carrying this in a metal box.

Yeah, I worked at a bank once... we were required by law to do that... even if they didn't fill out the paperwork themselves. I never did it.
The law also included money orders over $2000 (i think) and cashier checks over $5000(i think).
It wasn't the bank collecting the info, it was the government. Which, to me, was illegal and unconstitutional. So I never complied with that law.
Today's tellers at bigger banks may not have a choice. Their computer systems may log them automatically now.

The "reason" I was given was so the government can track down money laundering.

[UtahApocalypse]

How many ppl carry Credit Cards across airports everyday with tens of thousands available.

[angelatc]

$10,000 is a magic figure. i was a teller back in the day - 1987 i believe, and an individual brought in $10,000 cash to deposit the day the rule was instituted (or close to it). i told him that he'd have to fill out a bunch of paperwork if he deposited that much cash, so he took $100 dollars out, and deposited $9900. he then deposited $100 w/someone else and i made certain that i didn't see him do this.... someone later told me that i'd "broken a law" by encouraging him to do this, but i'm a libertarian, so i didn't give a f#ck.

i was not going to be (and will not be) an agent for the government.

btw, i hadn't heard that the CFL guy was carrying this in a metal box.

The amount triggering the report is $10,000.01. The customer doesn't fill out the paperwork. The bank fills it out. It is a simple, 1 page form, not "lots of paperwork." If the bank suspects that the customer is making small deposits to avoid the trigger, they are required to fill it out too. Certain businesses are exempted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secrecy_Act The Bank Secrecy Act - how Orwellian, eh?

[fj45lvr]

The TSA response is faulty on the issue of the person questioned for having cash "not talking".....you don't have to say a single word to these people. PERIOD.

It's not a crime to carry cash. they can DROP DEAD.....keep silent.

[DAFTEK]

The TSA response is faulty on the issue of the person questioned for having cash "not talking".....you don't have to say a single word to these people. PERIOD.

It's not a crime to carry cash. they can DROP DEAD.....keep silent.
Exactly in this case, but! If the sum was over 10k and was not declared then he would have been in trouble. But come on! 4700 in cash is nothing and you can travel with 100k in cash if you chose to so long you declare it.

[fj45lvr]

Exactly in this case, but! If the sum was over 10k and was not declared then he would have been in trouble. But come on! 4700 in cash is nothing and you can travel with 100k in cash if you chose to so long you declare it.

who gave the power to require "declaration" of cash??? it is OBVIOUSLY an totally "ARBITRARY" number.....and when the tentacle of evil government works itself inside the door, rest assured that the "arbitrary" numbers could easily be made LOWER!!!

The whole premise is Bullshit.

[mport1]

As a general rule, passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process.

Yes, we must all be the obedient little slaves that they want us to be.

[jcarcinogen]

Back to the TSA comments - look at this, posted by an employee! Somebody should screen cap this - I don't know how!



No, he isn't! These people are dangerous!

Assuming you use windows, hit the 'Print Screen' key on your keyboard. The image is copied to the clipboard like text when you copy/paste... but you have to open a program like MSpaint or better yet, .NET Paint, choose edit in the menu bar and choose paste. Then save.

[angelatc]

who gave the power to require "declaration" of cash??? it is OBVIOUSLY an totally "ARBITRARY" number.....and when the tentacle of evil government works itself inside the door, rest assured that the "arbitrary" numbers could easily be made LOWER!!!

The whole premise is Bullshit.

It was part of a war on money laundering. :) The amount has been lowered by inflation - $10,000 was a lot more money in the '70's.

[angelatc]

Assuming you use windows, hit the 'Print Screen' key on your keyboard. The image is copied to the clipboard like text when you copy/paste... but you have to open a program like MSpaint or better yet, .NET Paint, choose edit in the menu bar and choose paste. Then save.

Ah! Thank you.

[jcarcinogen]

I first heard of this on my favorite audio podcast, No Agenda... I highly recommend it:
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=269169796

[ronpaulhawaii]

Exactly in this case, but! If the sum was over 10k and was not declared then he would have been in trouble. But come on! 4700 in cash is nothing and you can travel with 100k in cash if you chose to so long you declare it.

Declaring $10k only applies to international flights.

The $10k bank transaction rule is a different issue. It is very easily confused and I see a lot of chatter attempting to excuse this trampling of Steve's rights, (most notably the 4th and 5th) using it

I repeat, to my knowledge there is no limit on the amount of $$$ a domestic passenger can fly with and no rule that said paper must be declared.

The $10k thing is a red herring...

[jcarcinogen]

Declaring $10k only applies to international flights.

The $10k bank transaction rule is a different issue. It is very easily confused and I see a lot of chatter attempting to excuse this trampling of Steve's rights, (most notably the 4th and 5th) using it

I repeat, to my knowledge there is no limit on the amount of $$$ a domestic passenger can fly with and no rule that said paper must be declared.

The $10k thing is a red herring...

Never was a problem until the Federal Government started to do the Airline's job. A concession to the post 9/11 bailouts I suppose.

[michaelwise]

Deprive the Federal government of the tools, resources, and money it uses to subjugate us.

Study the 7th amendment and understand what it means. Teach it to everybody you know. Beat the IRS and other injustices with it.

Red Beckman - Fully Informed Jury 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7385583011526915030&hl=en

Red Beckman Seminar
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5959251658237547562

[blocks]

HAHA...We forced them into a corner were they had to respond. That's great.

[tangent4ronpaul]

10K hu?

Imagine when hyper-inflation hits and you have to fill out a form to buy a loaf of bread...

-t

[V3n]

A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry.

From what I heard he never once refused to answer why he was just asking whether or not he had to answer according to the law. It was the agents who were refusing to answer his question!