Liberty Collaborative - Help Build an Archive, Reference tool, and Networking site

[nayjevin]

*** NOTE *** This is no re-writing of the Constitution. I named this thread poorly, but it cannot be changed. This thread is about a new website:

Liberty Collaborative - Help to Build an Archive, Reference tool, and Networking site through the principles of the Free Market

or,

Wikipedia + FaceBook for Liberty (sort of)


The learning curve is steep, friends, but I will be creating walkthroughs, FAQ's, and possibly videos for new users.
my dream is a website for liberty, created through individual liberty. I hope you'll join me to create such a site.

LINKS

http://www.libertycollaborative.com (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/) <--- see what we're working with. **NEW** Anyone can now sign up.

[/URL] See My User Page (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-index.php?page=UserPage), Roxi's User Page (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-index.php?page=UserPageRoxi), and Kludge's User Page (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-user_information.php?userId=11)

Image Gallery for Tea Party Pictures 2009 (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=1) <-- you can view this anonymously, but must register to upload your own pictures. Please don't upload other people's pictures without permission, and consider uploading the highest resolution version you have. If you want to retain some power over distribution of your work, upload a lower resolution version and retain your higher resolution version. Alternately, you are at liberty to include a watermark showing your ownership.

DESCRIPTION

Liberty Collaborative is a wiki website where users can edit the site themselves, as well as use some organizing tools that are going to be quite handy.

EXAMPLES:

- Upload and download royalty free liberty images for use in projects like making flyers and videos. (Maybe a user living in Washington D.C. could take some good pictures and share them for free use.)

- Upload/Download a flyer for print and distribution to neighbors, coffeeshops, or event attendees

- Add, Edit, Read, or Share information about liberty such as biographical information about Heroes of the Liberty movement.

- Add liberty events to a central calendar

- Comment on practically all objects, and vote those comments up and down (so if a CATO event is added to the calendar that conflicts with a Mises event for instance, users can state and vote on their suggested preference)

The site will be a powerful tool for factual information about liberty and our Constitution (with an aim toward holding representatives accountable to rule of law), and will provide a place for networking and promotion of pet causes that move toward freedom for all people.

It should also serve as an example of the good in the world that can be done when honest people put their heads together.

I see the site as an endorsement of, and example of, creation by individuals acting in enlightened self interest, and making those decisions which affect others with the primary principle of justice in mind.

TECHNICAL DETAILS

The site can be considered in two parts - the wiki portion, and the rest of the tools.

The tools can be used by empowered members for any cause they see fit - ask questions, add events to the calendar, create polls, declare personal beliefs, etc.

The wiki portion will contain information that should be verifiable, with credible sources.

Wiki page editors are bound only by that 'societal' standard that changes to the site be accepted solely on the basis of fact.

Upon registration each user has his or her own page, separate from the rest of the wiki, which he or she has complete control over within the framework of the site.

NEW *** See an example UserPage (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-index.php?page=UserPage) ***

Users who click on your name in various places around the site will be directed to your UserPage. On this user page, you can promote your own project, link to your commercial interests, or whatever else. If you can use a word processor, you can set up your user page -- but if you know even a little wikicode or HTML, you can do all kinds of things, from hosting a chatroom to displaying an online store.

CONVENE FOR LIBERTY

I am assembling programmers, graphic designers, theorists, and other interested parties to help edit the wiki, vote, create polls and charts, and add websites to the directory.

Together we will improve the site as follows:

- Create FAQ's and Walkthroughs that will make it easier for future registrees to use the site

- Create structural categories for future additions to the site, such as 'Images of Liberty', 'Heroes of Liberty' and the 'Liberty Timeline'.

- The programmers will make changes to the backbone of the site to suit the specific needs of this project

Once launched, all users will have the same editing powers, but prior to launch, I am giving some instant 'administrator' rights to help me build the site.

I am doing my best to choose trustworthy people who are smarter and/or more educated about the principles of liberty than I am :) .

EXAMPLES OF PROPOSED WIKI ADDITIONS

Here are a few of the kinds of things I hope are added to the wiki by individuals: (not to say I have permission to lift all of these at this point)

Read the Constitution Badge: [URL]http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=184399
Streaming Video Feeds: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=123497
Ron Paul's Reading List: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/edu/reading-list.php
Heroes of Liberty: Thomas Jefferson: http://tinyurl.com/ahe82n

TOOL TO BE USED FOR THE SITE

I've used a sort of plop-in tool to make the site called TikiWiki (http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-list_faqs.php). It has customizable 'skins' or graphics/color settings, so each user can choose by personal preference.

The documentation for it leaves something to be desired, (it is a community effort over there too), but here are the basic features:

http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Features

POTENTIAL ISSUES

Paying for hosting of the site. I will be doing this, and I want the site to be itself non-profit, but to sponsor money bombs of some sort. All finances will be 100% transparent and the moneybombs will be entirely separate from any kind of donation drives to help pay for hosting of the site. For now, the site is paid for a full year from about a month ago. I will post the exact dates and details in the near future.

I must eat. <-- makes no difference, I can use my own userpage for my own endeavors. I will never sell out this site!

Saboteurs <-- don't matter - the site will be open source. I am working on a way to make all of the code behind the site available to anyone - so any possibility of malicious code could be identified by those qualified. Also am working on a model wherein veteran users can download a backup of the whole works to their hard drive for distributed safekeeping.

The internet may not always be free <-- I know, that's why I'm doing this. :)

This is a duplicate of RPF/ Liberty Forest <-- no, the forum included will be used only for discussion of wiki pages (to plan / outline edits) and I will link back to here instead. Liberty Forest is the best of the interwebz!

This is a duplicate of CFL <-- no, Campaign for Liberty is a tool for organizing local political action, with a blog and article layer on top of that. This site will have similar networking tools (some quite a bit more powerful), but will not be bound to a specific agenda. I am a supporter (precinct leader) of CFL, and do not wish to overlap or obstruct its functionality. I have also not added a blog function, as the blog function at CFL seems quite adequate, and who wants another damn blog site really? :)

PEOPLE I NEED

People with good ideas
People with time and interest
People who can vote on major decisions wisely
PHP experts
HTML experts
People who have a dream of educating the masses
Graphic Artists
Experienced Wikipedia editors
Writers
Researchers

BUT WHAT CAN I DO?

Don't worry if you feel like you don't know what you could contribute to the project.

If nothing else, participants will appreciate your wisdom when decisions about major changes to the site arise.

Also, there's nothing wrong with throwing an idea out there, or even starting a wiki page in rough draft form -- then letting writers and researchers take over and make it useful for the site.

Please post here if interested or if you have any suggestions for good ideas or candidates for inclusion.

BANNER CONTEST

I'm accepting submissions for a banner to be at the top of the website. I will set up a voting mechanism at the site so registered users can vote on which one to use. Here are the submissions so far:

http://i41.tinypic.com/1yn29v.jpg
anonymous submission

http://i43.tinypic.com/wmbez4.jpg
anonymous submission

I'll set up a vote for registered members after I've received some more submissions.

Whatchya'all think?

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*** SOME INFORMATION IN MY COMMENTS BELOW IS NOW INACCURATE -- THIS ORIGINAL POST IS CONTINUALLY UPDATED TO REFLECT CHANGES -- BUT NOT ALL POSTS BELOW HAVE BEEN ***

[Roxi]

POTENTIAL ISSUES

Paying for hosting of the site. I will be doing this, and I want the site to be itself non-profit, but to sponsor money bombs of some sort.

I must eat. <-- makes no difference, I can use my own userpage for my own endeavors. I will never sell out this site.

Saboteurs <-- don't matter - the site will be open source and all veteran users will be able to download a backup for distributed safekeeping.

The internet may not always be free <-- I know, that's why I'm doing this.

This is a duplicate of RPF <-- no, I could have included blogs and a forum, but I will link back to here instead. Liberty Forest is the best of the interwebz.


very nice :) the backing up will be nice too!!

[nayjevin]

NEW *** http://www.libertycollaborative.com/...aq.php?faqId=1 (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-view_faq.php?faqId=1) *** <--introductory FAQ: some of the links don't work yet, and it needs some work, but it's a start. I suggest reading below first, then checking this out, as this FAQ was written before some of the ideas below came about.

[nayjevin]

NEW *** example UserPage (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-index.php?page=UserPageadmin) *** <-- gives an idea of a few of the things registered users can do with their own UserPage (without approval by administrators)

[nayjevin]

Welcoming all suggestions for improvement.

Even if you would advise against this project, please do so (constructively please)! Be honest!

[Roxi]

wow. i guess no one gives a shit.

[steph3n]

A Constitutional convention is a very bad thing.
A wiki based one.....ehhhhhh.....even worse!

[micahnelson]

I support it if i'm invited.

[Roxi]

A Constitutional convention is a very bad thing.
A wiki based one.....ehhhhhh.....even worse!


please elaborate on why you think so?

[Roxi]

I support it if i'm invited.

absolutely please PM the OP

[JoshLowry]

Weekends have always been a bit slower with posts.

I still owe Jay a review. I'm sorry I haven't had the time to sit down and review it yet.

I'll get to this tomorrow!

:o

[nayjevin]

wow. i guess no one gives a shit.

lol :)

we all give a shit, just depends what direction we give it ;)


I support it if i'm invited.

thanks, micah, you come highly recommended.


Weekends have always been a bit slower with posts.

I still owe Jay a review. I'm sorry I haven't had the time to sit down and review it yet.

I'll get to this tomorrow!

:o

Nah, you guys are absurd busy, don't feel extra stress on my account :)

[nayjevin]

I wish I could 'flag' users of this forum to this thread based on their skillset. Closest thing is to bump it to the top of 'new posts' above and hope for the best.

Does the phpBB system that this site runs on have that plug-in?

Can the Ron Paul pepples unite to make it?

I'm sure the folks @ http://www.phpbb.com/community/ what with their natural leanings toward liberty for all net users would appreciate it.

I changed http://www.libertycollaborative.com to point to this page here.

Any ideas?

[Roxi]

maybe a poll dealing with skills could be added to the thread?

[Roxi]

bump

[nayjevin]

Thanks for the bump, but no hurry, this project will develop over the next year or so -- but I expect it to be useful after only a few weeks.

Here are a few of the kinds of things I hope are added to the wiki by individuals: (not to say I have permission to lift all of these at this point)

Read the Constitution Badge: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=184399
Streaming Video Feeds: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=123497
Ron Paul's Reading List: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/edu/reading-list.php
Heroes of Liberty: Thomas Jefferson: http://tinyurl.com/ahe82n

[nayjevin]

I would appreciate anyone who will PM me requesting inclusion or suggesting talented/dedicated people for notification. Some already have!

[nayjevin]

http://libertycollaborative.nayjevin.com (http://libertycollaborative.nayjevin.com/) <-- is a temporary place to see what we're working with. This will be libertycollaborative.com in the future.

[nayjevin]

=======================
PEOPLE I NEED
=======================
People with good ideas
People with time and interest
People who provide wise input as to direction
PHP experts
HTML experts
People who have a dream of educating the masses
Graphic Artists
Experienced Wikipedia editors

[nayjevin]

I suggest 'invitees' sign up here at Liberty Forest too so you can chime in if you want to.

If anyone sends me ideas through email or PM or elsewhere, I'll incorporate them here - but take control of your own publication by making an account yourself.

[nayjevin]

Don't worry if you feel like you don't know what you could contribute to the project.

If nothing else, I want your wisdom available to vote(?) on major changes to the site.

Also, there's nothing wrong with throwing an idea out there, or even starting a wiki page in rough draft form -- then letting writers and researchers take over and make it useful for the site.

[nayjevin]

If I haven't invited you, I hope you don't take it personally. It is because I have overlooked you, or because I have yet to have time to research you to establish trust. This is why I ask for help with suggestions for inclusion! PM (private message) me or post here plz.

[nayjevin]

no hurry, nor pressure! there are other things more vital to do right now, even to me -- but I believe in this thing.

[nayjevin]

Does anyone know how to contact Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Barry Goldwater Jr., Jim Babka, G. Edward Griffin directly?

If so, please do, and let them know I am extending invitations.

Edit: John Stossel, Peter Schiff, Judge Napolitano too

[DamianTV]

Wow I feel all warm and fuzzy now cuz someone believes I have good ideas, and I usually think of myself as either the comedian (not so often) or the hardass that has to point out things that people dont have enough common sense to conclude for themselves! Not even really sure I deserve the priviledge, if the prementioned individuals that I dont know how to contact directly, have any intention of working on this project...

[nayjevin]

Wow I feel all warm and fuzzy now cuz someone believes I have good ideas, and I usually think of myself as either the comedian (not so often) or the hardass that has to point out things that people dont have enough common sense to conclude for themselves! Not even really sure I deserve the priviledge, if the prementioned individuals that I dont know how to contact directly, have any intention of working on this project...

Your humility is an asset! You can use it to keep my arrogance in check by example... :D

[steph3n]

what are you trying to rewrite?

We have no need to scrap our own constitution, it's a good example, and we have a process of amendments to change it. There is no need to scrap it and fall for the 'right to a job' 'right to healthcare' and several others that will come up if some convention were ever to convene.

maybe I am misunderstanding, and this is for the 'constitution' of a open organization? in that case normally called Bylaws or Articles.

[nayjevin]

As reflected in my first email out, I had the idea that I could create accounts for folks so they would not have to take the time to set it up themselves. This is not fair, I will instead use an 'opt-in' system wherein I will notify all whom I have direct addresses for when registration is open, and will provide a passcode to use when signing up. More detailed instruction too :)

[nayjevin]

maybe I am misunderstanding, and this is for the 'constitution' of a open organization? in that case normally called Bylaws or Articles.

Yes, this is for an open organization, not for the Constitution of the United States itself - that's why I used the quotes.

Sorry if I wasn't totally clear in the OP (original post) but I am constantly re-working it to make it more informative.

The site created should be a powerful tool for factual information about liberty and our Constitution, and will provide a place for networking and promotion of causes to move toward freedom for all people.

It should also serve as an example of the good in the world that can be done when honest people put their heads together.

I think a careful read of this thread should clear any misunderstandings.

[nayjevin]

I'll send out no more than one message per week, probably on the weekends. I won't sell your information either!

By the way, the website has a built in way for the author of a page to determine his or her own copyrights. One obstacle is figuring out the copyrights of the wiki portion of the site.

I believe strong considerations should be made to the implications of the GNU public license.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License)

[LittleLightShining]

Ooh! I was invited! Thanks!

I've certainly got time though I'm pretty stretched out with the Tea Party. After the 15th I'll be needing something to focus my energy on so I'll be more active then. I'm not sure I completely understand it but if you think I have something to add to the project I'll do my best to make it so :)

[steph3n]

I'll send out no more than one message per week, probably on the weekends. I won't sell your information either!

By the way, the website has a built in way for the author of a page to determine his or her own copyrights. One obstacle is figuring out the copyrights of the wiki portion of the site.

I believe strong considerations should be made to the implications of the GNU public license.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License)

You should look more at the BSD license than the GNU, IMO.

The GNU license is a bit more....socialistic, where the BSD is more freedom based.
Don't take this as a hit at open source anyone,I love it, GNU and BSD. :)

[Roxi]

Ooh! I was invited! Thanks!

I've certainly got time though I'm pretty stretched out with the Tea Party. After the 15th I'll be needing something to focus my energy on so I'll be more active then. I'm not sure I completely understand it but if you think I have something to add to the project I'll do my best to make it so :)



you are awesome

[nayjevin]

Thanks, guys and gals, several interested parties have contacted me for inclusion. Anyone can register at the site now - but I will have to approve membership at this point. The first step is to assign admins who can learn the tool and help to program it.

In the future I hope to have programmed a system wherein registration can be totally open, but powers to change the site granted of users are based on merit - by gaining points when suggested wiki changes are approved by veteran members, and by getting 'kudos' for comments and the like.

In this way, I hope the site can be sustainable and not lose focus.

Again, I apologize for the early monarchist leanings. lol


You should look more at the BSD license than the GNU, IMO.

The GNU license is a bit more....socialistic, where the BSD is more freedom based.
Don't take this as a hit at open source anyone,I love it, GNU and BSD. :)

Thanks! I'll be looking into various copyright issues and posting more information. The 'wiki' portion of the site will be truly collaborative, and will largely contain freely available, public domain information.

What would be the implications of publishing an annual Liberty Collaborative Digest as a fundraiser for some cause, or for the site itself from this information?

The way I see it (but I am no expert), so long as users understand their work (within the wiki portion only) may be printed and profit may not come back to them, it would be okay legally, but might cause some folks to contribute elsewhere. How to balance this?

I would love it if some kind of fair formula could be created to bring profits of the sale of that book to go right back to those who contributed to compiling that information, but don't see implementation as any simple matter.

My tendency is to lean toward having proceeds from the sale of such a digest go back to maintenance of the site, with any extra going into a pooled account that admins can somehow vote on how it would be used (don't worry, I know majority rules sucks).

Each person will also have a UserPage, too - and conceivably would need to copyright information on that page for themselves.

================

I have had a couple people take exception to use of the term 'Constitutional Convention'. I agree with the concerns. The term gives the wrong impression.

My intention is in no way to 'take over' anything that now exists, but to create something new entirely - a site that promotes liberty - and not that which takes liberty from the individual.

I see the site as an endorsement of, and example of, creation by individuals acting in enlightened self interest, and making those decisions which affect others with the primary principle of justice in mind.

[nayjevin]

Good news -- I now have 3 PHP programmers who have agreed to help admin the site. I have HTML and some Visual Basic experience (programming languages), so I feel comfortable in learning PHP as well. I will be going through the PHP tutorial at http://www.w3schools.com/php in the coming weeks.

This may not seem relevant information to most of you, but know that we have some computer experts who have agreed to help.

Keep in mind the power granted is temporary in this case. Programmers (and myself) will step down as 'elite' members and 'compete' as 'commoners' once the site launches, and enough folks have built their way up to 'approver' status to keep the approvals flowing.

Additionally, I am brainstorming ways to protect members from any possibility of me running out of money or just pulling the plug. Ideas include escrow accounts, non-profit organization status with 'chairs' being the merited administrators, and/or even giving the password to my hosting account to anyone who gets 1,000,000 points or whatever. Thoughts?

[nayjevin]

More on copyright issues:

There are functions for the site that could be used that have copyright implications.

There is an 'article' function with which users can copy and paste articles from anywhere to share with other members. LibertyForum.org used a similar function and as I understand it, they had no advertisements, so the site was clear to do so. It is not clear to me whether the function for providing a link to the source of the article being mandatory for posting was also necessary to remain free of lawsuit, but I suspect so. Regardless, it would be moral to require attribution IMO.

Although I can't be sure, I assume and have been advised that the idea above to raise money through book sale would put the site into the category where re-postings of articles would no longer be considered 'fair use', as the site would be considered a commercial enterprise. Any lawyers around?

In the case of a commercial enterprise, my understanding is that only excerpts of articles could be considered fair use (and what percentage of the original is considered more than an 'excerpt' I believe is a legal gray area.) If true, this makes implementation quite difficult.

YouTube forces users to certify they have the right to distribute videos uploaded. This must protect them some way, I would think, but YouTube has big time lawyers and lots of money as well - and they wouldn't be considered 'anti-establishment' as Liberty Collaborative inevitably would be. (status quo establishment just doesn't seem to be in tune with liberty).

I have been told that LA Times went after FreeRepublic for copyright infringement, who spent lots of money to fight it, and lost - based on the fact that they had solicited fundraisers and paid salary to administrators - making it a commercial enterprise, in the eyes of that judge and jury, anyway. These details are not verified.

There is also a function to upload images, which cannot logically be 'excerpted', I would think. Does anyone know the legal differences?

Does anyone know the implications of these issues?

[LittleLightShining]

you are awesomeSo are you!

[nayjevin]

I have updated the main page to include this introductory FAQ:

http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-view_faq.php?faqId=1

some of the links don't work yet, and it needs some work, but it's a start. Any suggestions?

[nayjevin]

http://www.libertycollaborative.com no longer points to this page - it now points to the site itself.

[rancher89]

My first response was, where was this thread and why didn't I see it before? Next was ye gads I'm busy right now....Next was this is interesting stuff, wonder if it will work...?

So, OK, I'm interested and thanks for inviting me. Not sure what I can contribute or how much time I can spend on it, but I'm on board.

[nayjevin]

My first response was, where was this thread and why didn't I see it before? Next was ye gads I'm busy right now....Next was this is interesting stuff, wonder if it will work...?

So, OK, I'm interested and thanks for inviting me. Not sure what I can contribute or how much time I can spend on it, but I'm on board.

:D

I imagine that's about what many of the others have thought too. I'm not asking for any more time than you have to spare (so many important projects right now), but sign up on the site and I'll approve your registration and bump you up to admin. Take a few minutes to poke around and get familiar (no programming necessary for that, it's all GUI - graphical user interface - buttons n stuff).

I'll be sending notification of some specific things the site will need, and I'm always open to brainstorms.

Thanks for the support!

[nayjevin]

DING DING DING DING!

Some seemingly unlikely sources have debunked a few of my biases, and thank you.

'Regulators always believe that if only the proper regulations are in place, justice can be preserved'

'We need a strong president, strong enough to resist the temptation of taking power the President shouldn’t have." -- Ron Paul

'A truly free market leaves private enterprise to fend for themselves'

'...when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing -- when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors -- when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you -- when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice -- you may know that your society is doomed.' - Ayn Rand, via character Francisco d’Anconia (best as I can tell), brought to me by a friend on FaceBook

'No regulation ought stifle growth'

'Why wouldn't someone pay another to give them kudos, and therefore points, to gain access to the site?'

'sure, full freedom is a lofty aim, but do you allow your children to set their own rules?'

-----------------------

These ideas and more brought to me by osmosis (or something) have led me to change my approach.

Why not test true liberty and open the site to all?

The Twiki toolset has a built in way to see what all users have done on the site, activities to the wiki portion can be logged. What better way to evaluate trust than that? Just let anyone see the logs and police themselves - similar to the 'history' function @ wikipedia.com .

I love this description of wikipedia itself, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Policies_and_guidelines


Wikipedia has developed a body of policies and guidelines to further our goal of creating a free encyclopedia. Our list of policies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies) are considered a standard that all editors should follow, whereas our guidelines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_guidelines) are more advisory in nature, and our processes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Processes) are routine methods to serve the above policies and guidelines. Policies and guidelines describe standards that have community consensus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus), and indeed consensus is itself a core policy and philosophy.

Those who adhere to neutral point of view (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV), are civil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility) to and assume good faith in others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith), seek consensus in discussions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus), and work towards the goal of creating an increasingly better written and more comprehensive encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_an_encyclopedia) should find a very welcoming environment.

Policies need to be approached with common sense; adhere to the spirit rather than the letter of the rules, and be prepared to "ignore all rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ignore_all_rules)" on the rare occasions when they conflict with the goal of improving the encyclopedia.also interesting is Wikipedia's 5 pillars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars

Seeing the success of Wikipedia makes it difficult to justify moving far from its policies.

Wikipedia has it's founder, and a board of advisors who can declare changes to the site at will, but leaves a great deal of freedom for the community to 'police' itself.

So would the wiki portion of this site simply be a duplication of wikipedia?

The difference I see would be that, assuming Liberty Collaborative were to use a similar model, and any 'board of advisors' would be a group dedicated to liberty, it would tend to grow in information more relevant to the 'liberty-minded' user. Presumably, there would be less incentive for visitors who support statism (as an honest misunderstanding), for instance, to edit the pages at LC over the pages at Wikipedia. Also, wikipedia has none of the additional collaborative tools that LC is capable of incorporating - and users of Wikipedia would have less chance of suggesting/implementing a tool or page that is specifically tailored to the liberty activist than users at Liberty Collaborative.

I currently serve as the equivalent of Wikipedia's founder, Jimmy Wales, but believe me when I tell you I covet no dictatorial power except that which I can uniquely use to make sure the site results in success. Although I will stick with the site for life, the date for stepping down (if that's possible) will be a sigh of relief :).

So here's the rub, as I see it:

Seems to me, maximum individual liberty without compromise of the community should be the goal.

Maximum individual liberty, in the case of this site, would seem to be allowing newly registered users to do ANYTHING.

I am not the smartest webhost, and undoubtedly there are others that would do a better job. I would like to let any human come along and take over the whole works if they are qualified/motivated, but that would include the power to shut down the site. Surely that's not the best route (but tell me if you believe it is!).

Similarly, permissions granted users on the site can be set on many different levels. For instance:

- A new user could be forbidden to view any page on the site, or a new user could be granted power to delete any page on the site;

- A new user could be forbidden to make changes to one portion of the site, but allowed to change others;

- A new user could be allowed to change all of these permissions, or I could leave myself as the ONLY person capable of doing so!

Similar to the Constitution, I believe some of these rules should be 'set in stone', with some 'amendment process'.

I see it impossible to allow new users to change permissions, as anyone could come along and make the site inaccessible to others - but I am having some trouble coming up with a working model that balances too much power in the hands of those who can change permissions with the interest of the community.

I see it necessary to forbid anyone from deleting pages, as this cannot be undone in this system (i think), and seems to be contrary to the principle of free speech.

There is a built in system (like Wikipedia) for 'rolling back' pages to previous versions. This works quite well at wikipedia to defend against poorly thought out edits and sabotage.

Prior to launch, these details will be ironed, but in the meantime, I will be less strict in accepting signups, and will make changes to permissions with all these new thoughts in mind. I will also be open to new theories and suggestions should they arise.

Please advise!

More interesting and relevant Wikipedia policies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blocking_policy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry

[nayjevin]

I have changed permissions such that registered users now have substantially more power - abilities to add and edit almost everything, but delete nothing.

In addition, I have created a 'superuser' group for those who have expressed some interest in helping me set permissions and adapt the site's structure prior to launch.

This will be the group that these users will be removed from (returning all to 'registered' status) upon launch.

Perhaps some system of elections can determine who will have greater 'power' than registered users. Perhaps I will leave only one 'superuser' account and give several people access to that account. More ironing to come.

[idiom]

The other thing I thought of, was using a single logon for all liberty websites.

This would be technically pretty clever, and it would mean you had the same user name and password at all sites, and the same personal message system, which you could log into from a facebook application or firefox toolbar or iPhone app.

It would mean everyone here would already be a registered user of the Wiki.

It would be a security issue and a threat to independence, so it would need a serious round table discussion of all the admins of the sites to weigh the pros and cons and neocons. Setting standards for these things is somtehing the c4l could contribute to in a big way.

[nayjevin]

The other thing I thought of, was using a single logon for all liberty websites.

This would be technically pretty clever, and it would mean you had the same user name and password at all sites, and the same personal message system, which you could log into from a facebook application or firefox toolbar or iPhone app.

It would mean everyone here would already be a registered user of the Wiki.

I love this idea on the surface, but as you say,


It would be a security issue and a threat to independence, so it would need a serious round table discussion of all the admins of the sites to weigh the pros and cons and neocons. Setting standards for these things is somtehing the c4l could contribute to in a big way.Seems to me that the idea (if instituted retroactively on already existing accounts) would fall under the category of using force for ease of use at the expense of privacy. :eek: in which case, to me, the pro's become irrelevant.

It is a wonderful idea though, and I would certainly volunteer my username for that for my own ease of use.

It would be slightly better, IMO that future signees to any site automatically become members to all sites, and users are warned of this prior to registration, but that would discourage some from signing up at all, I would think.

I have considered the idea to retroactively and automatically sign up members of Ron Paul Forums, that would minimize the evil to only one set of users, but would still be evil, IMO.

The last option I see is to give all existing RPF members an option to have an account automatically made in their names, and / or set it up somehow that persons registering to either site get auto-access to both.

----

Would it be a security risk to have only one password everywhere? Can the admin of each site see the passwords, and potentially compromise security of the account on another site?

I do know that if I were to give anyone else access to my hosting account, they could find my password, but I do not know whether other users' passwords are open to me. This is something I had not thought of before. Encryption, with realtime un-encryption based on matching I.P. address perhaps?

Of course, I do not want access to your passwords. This I Promise!

[nayjevin]

This would be technically pretty clever, and it would mean you had the same user name and password at all sites, and the same personal message system, which you could log into from a facebook application or firefox toolbar or iPhone app.


What about the same username and message system, but unique passwords for each site -- does this solve the problem?

Is there some technology that could handle this?

[Roxi]

my user page: http://libertycollaborative.nayjevin.com/tiki-index.php?page=UserPageRoxi

which i have decided to use for the entire history of our involvement, with pics, but can't possibly do it in a few days

soooo its a work in progress

[nayjevin]

my user page: http://libertycollaborative.nayjevin.com/tiki-index.php?page=UserPageRoxi

which i have decided to use for the entire history of our involvement, with pics, but can't possibly do it in a few days

soooo its a work in progress

nice work!

not to be outdone :) here's mine (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-index.php?page=UserPagenayjevin) with new edits

I made a TinyURL for myself too at http://www.tinyurl.com -- it is http://tinyurl.com/jaynevin (http://tinyurl.com/jaynevin)

I've also come up with what I think is a better description of the project:

Liberty Collaborative Wiki and Freedom Archive - Building a Free Market Liberty Resource Archive, Reference, and Networking Tool

[nayjevin]

*** NEW ***

I hereby offer my services to create your UserPage (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-index.php?page=UserPage) for you based on an email you send to me at libertycollaborative@nayjevin.com .

Cost: $5 or proof of paid membership to either Campaign For Liberty (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/)http://www.libertycollaborative.com/img/icons/external_link.gif or Liberty Forest (http://www.libertyforest.com/)http://www.libertycollaborative.com/img/icons/external_link.gif. I'll get a PayPal? (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-editpage.php?page=PayPal) going soon, or money orders are fine. Also, paying me someday in the future may be considered, depending on what I know of your credibility. Also would consider making you a UserPage (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-index.php?page=UserPage) in return for showing me you've spent some paper money on a viable liberty project sometime recently. My discretion.

I encourage you to attempt to learn the tools yourself, but do this for personal gain and to encourage growth.

Once I have made your user page based on the email you send me, look at it, and tell me what you like, don't like. Cost of additional edits will be negotiated by good faith word of mouth contract, based on the relative absurdity/complexity of your request :)

If anyone else learns the tools and provides this service (and suitably performs it) , I'll withdraw my competition, but provide this example for those interested.

[nayjevin]

I've added an image gallery for Tea Party pictures 2009 at Liberty Collaborative (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/) so anyone can sign up there and upload if you want.

http://www.libertycollaborative.com/...hp?galleryId=1 (http://www.libertycollaborative.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=1)

Please don't upload other people's pictures, and consider uploading the highest resolution version you have, or if you want to retain some power over your work, upload a lower resolution version and retain your higher resolution version. Alternately, you are welcome to include a watermark showing your ownership.

[Anti Federalist]

N/M

[nayjevin]

http://i41.tinypic.com/1yn29v.jpg

Thanks to an anonymous donor for the logo above! I like it, and have put it up at the site - but in the spirit of continual improvement, always open to other submissions and input!

Edit - the same donor sent this as well today:

http://i43.tinypic.com/wmbez4.jpg

I'll set up a vote for registered members after I've received some more submissions.

Whatchya'all think?

[idiom]

I love this idea on the surface, but as you say,

Seems to me that the idea (if instituted retroactively on already existing accounts) would fall under the category of using force for ease of use at the expense of privacy. :eek: in which case, to me, the pro's become irrelevant.

It is a wonderful idea though, and I would certainly volunteer my username for that for my own ease of use.

It would be slightly better, IMO that future signees to any site automatically become members to all sites, and users are warned of this prior to registration, but that would discourage some from signing up at all, I would think.

I have considered the idea to retroactively and automatically sign up members of Ron Paul Forums, that would minimize the evil to only one set of users, but would still be evil, IMO.

The last option I see is to give all existing RPF members an option to have an account automatically made in their names, and / or set it up somehow that persons registering to either site get auto-access to both.

----

Would it be a security risk to have only one password everywhere? Can the admin of each site see the passwords, and potentially compromise security of the account on another site?

I do know that if I were to give anyone else access to my hosting account, they could find my password, but I do not know whether other users' passwords are open to me. This is something I had not thought of before. Encryption, with realtime un-encryption based on matching I.P. address perhaps?

Of course, I do not want access to your passwords. This I Promise!

Essentially, each site would need to maintain their own database as they already do, although the would be formatted the same way. then each account could optionally sync with a central database.

This way if you got banned at one site, your account would be flagged at each.

The Admin accounts would simply be user accouts at other sites.

A real time single database would be the wrong way to go about it.

[Kludge]

Bump for new banner submissions?

I tried for a couple hours, but didn't like the results (then again, I've never been too good at design). Ones posted aren't bad, but they're a bit plain.

[nayjevin]

Essentially, each site would need to maintain their own database as they already do, although the would be formatted the same way. then each account could optionally sync with a central database.

This way if you got banned at one site, your account would be flagged at each.

The Admin accounts would simply be user accouts at other sites.

A real time single database would be the wrong way to go about it.

I'm open to such a concept, though it seems over my head abit. Like an 'Open ID' ?

[Roxi]

ill work on a banner too.... ive made new edits to my page

also new pics in the gallery!

[Roxi]

i have been adding websites to the directory.... if you own a website you should go add it to the directory, of course you have to be registered to add them, but if your in the liberty movement you will probably want to do this anyway, and create a user page for you or your cause

anyway i didn't add descriptions to them, so if you see your site listed on there you should add a description to it :)