Angry response I received, your thoughts?

[Reason]

This was in response to this story
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=186823

I usually send an email to about 50 or so people I know weekly with top stories I wish to share.

I received this response from a former high school history professor who actually deserves a lot of credit for getting me interested in politics.


"I gotta tell you, it's pretty hard to watch the
Fox "News" Channel--who attacked anyone
who even QUESTIONED whether Bush could
dispense years of incarceration (and/or torture)
without bringing charges or giving access to a lawyer--
NOW acting outraged that guy got ASKED
why he had a suspicious amount of cash.

The same people that told us that
"24 proves we should bend the law"
have had a complete change of heart...
now anti-terror and anti-drug cops
should kiss the ass of a rude, uncooperative kid.

I wonder how much crap Fox hero
Jack Bauer would take from a guy who was
giving him smartass answers like that?

So, when the Republicans were in power,
unconstitutional detention and torture were
above questioning...now that the Dems are in
power, asking questions about large sums of
money (to an evasive, uncooperative person)
is suddenly an outrage? Really? It's changed
THAT much?!? Just with a new party in the
White House? And a president that the people
like MUCH more than the last one?

This is twice in a week that you've sent me
something that strikes me as harmful to my
nation. In both cases there was new and phony outrage
over things that were far less a threat to this nation
and it's Constitution than things that were documented
yet swept under the rug under the previous administration.

This reeks of Glenn Beck-ism...

I realize that you have an affection for Ron Paul.
(He that thinks that what happens in a woman's uterus
should not be her business, but rather the Government's).
For numerous reasons, I'm much less impressed with
the man and his often blind followers.

In short, I think it's time you stopped sending me
these propaganda pieces. I think society would be
a better place with less of these videos...but I'm
guessing you'll probably want to keep sending them to
others...at least for awhile.

But as for me...I'm out of patience for disingenuous crap.

No offense.

Thanks"


Here is what I wrote in response so far, but have not sent yet.

1. Fox news is just a company out to make profits. They will air whatever gets them ratings. Would this story somehow be different if it was aired on MSNBC?

2. I am a HUGE fan of Judge Napolitano and have been for several years now. During the Bush years Napolitano happened to be the seemingly sole voice of logic and liberty on Fox News. I have read several of his books and don't particularly give a crap what channel he happens to be on when he talks as long as what he says is logical and intelligent.

3. Just because I send a video link to my list of friends & family does not by any means imply that I am in support of or wish to promote it. It simply means I thought it to be worth sharing because I found it to be interesting and or thought provoking.

4. You sound as though you are falling prey to the divisive nature of our disastrous 2 party system. You really can't say anything bad about the guy in the TSA video who was not doing anything other than protecting himself from possible self incrimination and exercising his fifth amendment right as a citizen of this country.

5. I have a hard time faulting any of Ron Paul's statements on abortion http://www.ontheissues.org/tx/Ron_Paul_Abortion.htm That doesn't mean he is my messiah either. I have yet to encounter a politician who I agreed with 100% of the time on 100% of the issues and I believe that to be an impossible feat. I simply agree with Ron Paul on the issues more than any other politician I have encountered to date.

[Bman]

My response based on the limited information I have would go somethig like.

Dear Mr/Mrs X,


I'm deeply sorry for disturbing you.
In all fairness I was not kind to Bush for his policies either. Nor were any candiadtes I supported over the past election cycle.

I just feel passionate about something in politics and wanted to share. When sending out information you were someone who came to my mind because you were a large influence in helping me become interested in politics.

Sorry again for overstaying my welcome.

Have a good day.

[Reason]

My response based on the limited information I have would go somethig like.

Dear Mr/Mrs X,


I'm deeply sorry for disturbing you.
In all fairness I was not kind to Bush for his policies either. Nor were any candiadtes I supported over the past election cycle.

I just feel passionate about something in politics and wanted to share. When sending out information you were someone who came to my mind because you were a large influence in helping me become interested in politics.

Sorry again for overstaying my welcome.

Have a good day.

lol that might be slightly too politically correct for my personality ;)

I have an innate desire to at least defend myself a little bit before dismissing myself entirely :)

[Conza88]

My response? Why were you suprised?



People go, Fox News attacking Obama? Yeah, no wonder they supported Iraq, Bush, Neocons etc. They'll instantly dismiss whatever it is, and kling to the MSNBC, CNN BULLSHIT that will be thrown at them.

*sigh*

It is all part of the false paradigm. It is all coerced. It doesn't "just" happen. - What you will now see from the Media



1. Fox news is just a company out to make profits. They will air whatever gets them ratings. Would this story somehow be different if it was aired on MSNBC?

3. Just because I send a video link to my list of friends & family does not by any means imply that I am in support of or wish to promote it. It simply means I thought it to be worth sharing because I found it to be interesting and or thought provoking.


1. Is BS
3. That is promotion. You just failed to stipulate where you disagree with it.

[Bman]

lol that might be slightly too politically correct for my personality ;)

I have an innate desire to at least defend myself a little bit before dismissing myself entirely :)

Yeah I do also. In here. Because no one really knows who I am so I can feel alright about being a jackass. But when it comes to someone I personally know I always try to be overly polite. It's just how I am. Plus this place lets me get a little out of hand which gives me an environment to reanalize my decisions without any real recourse.

[Emmitt2222]

Seriously, this is where I feel people in this community can get a little nutty.

I believe the best approach here is to offer a sincere apology to the man and make it clear to him that you were just trying to inform people on issues that you felt were important. With a glaring error, like the abortion issue one, I would just put a link in the post script and ask him to read it.

But seriously, he thinks Ron Paul supporters are wacky fanatics. If you continue the arguing, do you believe you can completely change his mind? Or is it more likely that you will only reinforce his positions? Be sincere, be polite and think about what he is feeling.

Good luck.

[Bman]

Seriously, this is where I feel people in this community can get a little nutty.

I believe the best approach here is to offer a sincere apology to the man and make it clear to him that you were just trying to inform people on issues that you felt were important. With a glaring error, like the abortion issue one, I would just put a link in the post script and ask him to read it.

But seriously, he thinks Ron Paul supporters are wacky fanatics. If you continue the arguing, do you believe you can completely change his mind? Or is it more likely that you will only reinforce his positions? Be sincere, be polite and think about what he is feeling.

Good luck.

Well said

+1

[Emmitt2222]

I realize that you have an affection for Ron Paul.
(He that thinks that what happens in a woman's uterus
should not be her business, but rather the Government's).
For numerous reasons, I'm much less impressed with
the man and his often blind followers.

In short, I think it's time you stopped sending me
these propaganda pieces. I think society would be
a better place with less of these videos...but I'm
guessing you'll probably want to keep sending them to
others...at least for awhile.

But as for me...I'm out of patience for disingenuous crap.

No offense.

I just reread the guys whole response and you should definitely not start arguing with this guy as he looks like a lost cause at the moment.

He insinuates that you, as a Ron Paul supporter, are a "blind follower", against the rights of females, spreading around harmful videos to many people and then also suggesting that you are too stupid to stop doing so even now.

"No offense"


:eek:+:mad:+:D

His argument, broken out in simple English:
"You are a fat, stupid and insane. No offense."

[idiom]

As a High School teacher, he probably knows a lot more about what goes on in a womans uterus than a man with 40 years of OB/GYN under his belt.

[GunnyFreedom]

My response based on the limited information I have would go somethig like.

Dear Mr/Mrs X,


I'm deeply sorry for disturbing you.
In all fairness I was not kind to Bush for his policies either. Nor were any candiadtes I supported over the past election cycle.

I just feel passionate about something in politics and wanted to share. When sending out information you were someone who came to my mind because you were a large influence in helping me become interested in politics.

Sorry again for overstaying my welcome.

Have a good day.

this. her mind is shut. move on and knock on the next door. we got too many houses to canvass.

[hotbrownsauce]

Mr XXXXX,

You are absolutely right about Fox "News". I've stopped watching Fox due to people like Bill O'Riley and the rest of the "News" team. It is hard in general to find good "News" anywhere right now. But there is always an exception to the rule. Andrew Napolitano was always that exception at Fox. He has mentioned many times that the Bush administration was torturing people illegaly.
Other people like Dennis Kucinich brought 35 articles of impeachment to the table in 2008. Vincent Bulgiosi (Spelling?) wrote a book about it and testified in front of congress all to no avail. I took part in that, it was a huge outrage. You want to know who failed us there? It wasn't Republicans or Democrats, the Congress or the Senate, it is the people who lie dormant and silent and don't hold their government accountable. It is just as much the fault of the News for ignoring the hard issues. Many people I support even criticize the media for asking softball questions instead of the hardball's they should.

The crazy thing about Ron Paul is that even though he doesn't agree with abortion he believes that the constitution only grants so many powers (See The 5000 Year Leap) to the Federal Government. He believes that each state has the right to make the determination on abortion. I believe that if we do want to make abortion legal or illegal we need to amend the constitution properly. This is a serious issue, the principles of freedom, the constitution, and what lines are drawn where on abortion should all be considered carefully.

Mr, XXXXX I want to extend an apology to you for rubbing off on you in a negative way. Perhaps the damage I've caused is irreversible and I will accept that as my own doing. You are absolutely right about "blind followers" in some senses. I believe that a small percentage of the people who supported Ron Paul were just too extreme and some seemed to desire anarchy. I however want to set the record straight. There are many many more thousands of people (the huge majority in my experience) who supported Ron Paul that are more informed on the principles of freedom and understand the constitution and are not "blind followers". In fact every interview or talk I've EVER had with any of Paul's supporters I have noticed they are very informed. This last weekend St. Louis Missouri hosted a meeting of thousands of Paul Supporters. During that weekend the speakers who didn't know the Paul supporters were VERY surprised at just how much they knew and were involved. I've seen many interviews with Obama supporters who didn't know why they supported him, who his vice president was, the basics behind the issues, and false hopes. I don't mean to pick on Obama necessarily, many other candidates also suffered from that.

I'm too tired to keep editing... use it if you want.

[ClayTrainor]

Mr XXXXX,

You are absolutely right about Fox "News". I've stopped watching Fox due to people like Bill O'Riley and the rest of the "News" team. It is hard in general to find good "News" anywhere right now. But there is always an exception to the rule. Andrew Napolitano was always that exception at Fox. He has mentioned many times that the Bush administration was torturing people illegaly.
Other people like Dennis Kucinich brought 35 articles of impeachment to the table in 2008. Vincent Bulgiosi (Spelling?) wrote a book about it and testified in front of congress all to no avail. I took part in that, it was a huge outrage. You want to know who failed us there? It wasn't Republicans or Democrats, the Congress or the Senate, it is the people who lie dormant and silent and don't hold their government accountable. It is just as much the fault of the News for ignoring the hard issues. Many people I support even criticize the media for asking softball questions instead of the hardball's they should.

The crazy thing about Ron Paul is that even though he doesn't agree with abortion he believes that the constitution only grants so many powers (See The 5000 Year Leap) to the Federal Government. He believes that each state has the right to make the determination on abortion. I believe that if we do want to make abortion legal or illegal we need to amend the constitution properly. This is a serious issue, the principles of freedom, the constitution, and what lines are drawn where on abortion should all be considered carefully.

Mr, XXXXX I want to extend an apology to you for rubbing off on you in a negative way. Perhaps the damage I've caused is irreversible and I will accept that as my own doing. You are absolutely right about "blind followers" in some senses. I believe that a small percentage of the people who supported Ron Paul were just too extreme and some seemed to desire anarchy. I however want to set the record straight. There are many many more thousands of people (the huge majority in my experience) who supported Ron Paul that are more informed on the principles of freedom and understand the constitution and are not "blind followers". In fact every interview or talk I've EVER had with any of Paul's supporters I have noticed they are very informed. This last weekend St. Louis Missouri hosted a meeting of thousands of Paul Supporters. During that weekend the speakers who didn't know the Paul supporters were VERY surprised at just how much they knew and were involved. I've seen many interviews with Obama supporters who didn't know why they supported him, who his vice president was, the basics behind the issues, and false hopes. I don't mean to pick on Obama necessarily, many other candidates also suffered from that.

I'm too tired to keep editing... use it if you want.

Well done man...

To enforce the point about Obama supporters that don't know why they supported him, point him to this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsr0UpVjoE

[GunnyFreedom]

good, polite, and cogent :)

[pacelli]

Looks like his overall point is to stop sending him things. Might be a good idea to honor that, otherwise he will see anything liberty or ron-paul related as spam and nothing but spam.

[klamath]

He is a partisan Obama bot. If he can call a RP supporter a Bush supporter he has no clue and doesn't want to find out.
Take him off of your mailing list and let him bask in his Obama afterglow.

[beerista]

The following is a quote from Carol Quigley, history professor and mentor to our most recent (not current) Democrat president:
"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can throw the rascals out at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy. Then it should be possible to replace it, every four years if necessary, by the other party, which will be none of these things but will still pursue, with new vigor, approximately the same basic policies."
I don't offer this quote as something you should send to your former teacher, unless you want to, but rather as an insight that I have found useful to understand the paradigm that most people are stuck in. It probably won't do any good to point this out to most people but it may do you some good in relating to them.

He sounds like he is pretty well mired in the two-party-us-vs-them mindset that you mention in your email draft and seems to like it there as it provides him with an "other" to direct venom at and to feel superior to. (Unfortunately, he has wrongly identified you as that "other.") This, of course, doesn't make him a bad person, just a person. Most of us here were probably there at some point, for some of us an all too embarrassingly recent point. I was fortunate to have someone close to me who fed me information and insights as I was ready for them and not sooner. God bless him, 'cause I've never had that kind of patience.

Your former teacher's knee is jerking pretty hard at the mere mention of Fox News and other topics. Keep in mind that when someone's knee jerks strongly, it's tough to get near enough to make your point, for fear of being kicked.

Do what you like and it may even be possible to bring him around. I'm just saying that it's a good idea tread lightly with family and friends before saying something in your own defense that is likely to be taken as offense.

(Here's hoping I someday learn to take my own advice.)

[Deborah K]

Well done man...

To enforce the point about Obama supporters that don't know why they supported him, point him to this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsr0UpVjoE


R O T F L M A O!!!!! Osama bin Bama! I'm voting for Osama bin Bama! LOL! 6:55

OMG! I'm dyin here!!!

[nayjevin]

(Here's hoping I someday learn to take my own advice.)

+ me

'do as I say, not as I do'

[beerista]

'do as I say, not as I do'

Absolutely. It seems unwise to only take advice from people who are able to live up to their own rhetoric. With very few exceptions, this will have us following the example of people with very low expectations and aspirations. In many cases it will be the seemingly hypocritical alcoholic who more than anyone understands the true value of moderation, even if he is unable to implement it.

"Man's reach should exceed his grasp, else what's a heaven for."

[Feenix566]

The following is a quote from Carol Quigley, history professor and mentor to our most recent (not current) Democrat president:
"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can throw the rascals out at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy. Then it should be possible to replace it, every four years if necessary, by the other party, which will be none of these things but will still pursue, with new vigor, approximately the same basic policies."


Does anybody know where that quote came from? I heard Ron Paul say it during that press conference in which he urged everyone to vote third party. Is the quote from Quigley's book, "Tragedy and Hope"? I think I'm gonna buy that book, just to get an insight into Quigley's thoughts.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I would say this:

Oh sorry, I always perceived you to be more open minded...I'll take you off my list now. Have a great day!

Tones

[StilesBC]

When disagreeing with someone, I find it easier to phrase it as "one shouldn't..." as opposed to "you can't"

It comes across as less of a personal attack, rather a general statement. It has the added benefit of indirectly influencing others who may be listening that may otherwise disregard the statement as only applicable to who it was directed toward.

Just a thought.

[beerista]

Does anybody know where that quote came from? I heard Ron Paul say it during that press conference in which he urged everyone to vote third party. Is the quote from Quigley's book, "Tragedy and Hope"? I think I'm gonna buy that book, just to get an insight into Quigley's thoughts.
Yes, "Tragedy and Hope."

[hotbrownsauce]

Feenix I sent you a private message.

[sparebulb]

CivilRadiant,

I really think that you should suck it up and apologize to this guy for everything. In fact, apologize for even being a RP supporter. The last laugh will be on him, though. Eventually, he will be rounded up and placed in a FEMA camp for the crime of being associated with you. You win if you are lucky enough to be in the same camp with this guy because it sounds like it would be real easy to take his food away from him because he is a pussy.

This guy is a lost cause. It is sad because we all have friends and family that are the same way. They are destined to languish in the camps, having been consumed by the beast they helped to create.

[Athan]

Be diplomatic and let him know Obama was a better choice than McCain because of the disastrous reign of crap the republicans unleashed on America and the patriot act.

(It doesn't matter if you agree with me because again this is how to be diplomatic)
Bush was responsible for Iraq, Patriot Act, torture prisons, Guantanamo, scooter libby, and all sorts of crazy shit. Obama and the democrats however are just letting that shit go which should be a warning sign that there is no real change.

Do remind however that the dems are NOT going after bush for war crimes as they should.
Finally, defend Ron's stance on abortion because he is simply saying the federal level of government has NO right to dictate what women can do with their bodies. Such laws should be reserved for states so California can approve of it and states like Alabama can choose not to allow it. Having the same legislation for the entire nation however is dividing us.

[nbhadja]

Not only is that guy absolutely clueless, but he is arrogant and rude.
Do not apologize as there is little chance he can be freed from his brain dead state. He is a king sheep.

[Dequeant]

.....................

[Conza88]

Yes, "Tragedy and Hope."

And Obama comes out with "Audacity of Hope"

It's like they're toying with us. :eek:

[beerista]

And Obama comes out with "Audacity of Hope"

It's like they're toying with us. :eek:

Never noticed the similarity. Eerie.

You figure "The Tragic Audacity of Changeless Hope: A Bunch Of Words I Thought Would Make Me Sound Smart and Coolly Enigmatic, But Actually Reference Exactly What My Plan Is For You All And I'm Not Afraid You'll Catch On Because I Think You're Too Dumb to Notice" just wouldn't fit on the book cover?

[dgr]

Is your friend a "revisionist" history teacher ,
A republican "true believer" is as difficult to converse with as a democrat"liberal"
It's a waste of time.
Now having said that
I see waterboarding as the equalivant to a "whirrlie" surely a terroist can surive a adolesent haseing prank. IF IT DOESN'T INVOLVE ELECTRICITY OR THE LOSS OF BLOOD OR BODY PARTS,
it's not torture to me. But in this case I think they could have achieved just as much with a Bud and a bag of pork rhines . As a culture these people accept torture , it is INSULT that really offends them
now goverment assistance for released terriorit ARE THEY INSANE, IT'S NOT WITNESS PROTECTION RELOCATION'
As for abortion that can divide any two people. Our town has a festival, that anyone who buys a table can promote any issue. When pro life people had a booth last year, it wasn't the town council or the county commissioners people called and read the riot act, it was GOP headquaretes and people they knew were Republicians, and I wasn't even there. This is an issue where ther doesn't appear to be any middle ground,