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Fr3shjive
04-01-2009, 10:17 PM
Today is the first day of the federal tax increase on cigarettes. Its raises the federal tax on cigarettes from 39 cents to $1.01 a pack.

This shit pisses me off because people always justify it by saying "cigarettes are bad for you". If they are so concerned about people's health they should raise taxes on fast food and alcohol since those are "bad for you" too. Whether its good or bad is irrelevant. People are trying to legislate their values and beliefs on others.

People should be free to do what ever they want with out paying ridiculous taxes because some politician decided he/she didnt like it.

misterx
04-01-2009, 10:26 PM
My feelings exactly. Even if you don't smoke, realize that they're coming after your burgers next.

Warrior_of_Freedom
04-01-2009, 10:28 PM
thats a ridiculous tax, but i hate cigarette smoke anyway, it poisons my air
it's perfectly legal for someone to be walking in front of me on a public sidewalk blowing poisonous air into my face which ends up in my lungs, but would it be legal for me to pour poison on somebody's food? No.

DamianTV
04-01-2009, 11:16 PM
The tax isnt what you should be worried about. The crime is. If youre worried about someone blowing smoke in the air then you get a whiff of it, I think you should be a lot more concerned about getting shot in the head, because when those people cant afford their cigarettes, they are going to take it out of everyone elses asses!

Crime will go up! Mark my words!

penguin
04-01-2009, 11:45 PM
The tax isnt what you should be worried about. The crime is. If youre worried about someone blowing smoke in the air then you get a whiff of it, I think you should be a lot more concerned about getting shot in the head, because when those people cant afford their cigarettes, they are going to take it out of everyone elses asses!

Crime will go up! Mark my words!

A truck load of cigs is less protected and more valueable then an armored car these days.

DamianTV
04-02-2009, 12:05 AM
And they are gonna start getting robbed a lot more and you'll then have black market cigarettes.

tangent4ronpaul
04-02-2009, 03:00 AM
It didn't go up already??? - Jesus - cig prices skyrocketed to $6.50 a pack already! so what are we looking at $7+ $$$ a pack now? - this is insane! I remember .50 cents a pack cigs...

-t

idiom
04-02-2009, 03:06 AM
Its not like its even going into a 'Smokers health Fund' which would be one thing. Its going somewhere else entirely.

Captain Bryan
04-02-2009, 03:43 AM
Does this apply to cigars?

nayjevin
04-02-2009, 04:40 AM
I remember when a dimebag cost a dime Half Baked

Truth Warrior
04-02-2009, 04:55 AM
Fuck the bogus "do-gooder" nanny STATE bullshit "sin-extortion" robbery scam. :mad:

phill4paul
04-02-2009, 05:11 AM
Does this apply to cigars?

Yep and roll your own tobacco got hit with a 2,000 percent increase. Yep that is three zeroes after the two.

Roxi
04-02-2009, 05:26 AM
thats a ridiculous tax, but i hate cigarette smoke anyway, it poisons my air
it's perfectly legal for someone to be walking in front of me on a public sidewalk blowing poisonous air into my face which ends up in my lungs, but would it be legal for me to pour poison on somebody's food? No.


poisonous air comes out of the ground too... radon is a bigger cause of lung cancer than cigs are.... so should we tax walking on the ground?

Roxi
04-02-2009, 05:27 AM
Does this apply to cigars?


yes and smokeless or chewing tobacco

smithtg
04-02-2009, 05:46 AM
Today is the first day of the federal tax increase on cigarettes. Its raises the federal tax on cigarettes from 39 cents to $1.01 a pack.

This shit pisses me off because people always justify it by saying "cigarettes are bad for you". If they are so concerned about people's health they should raise taxes on fast food and alcohol since those are "bad for you" too. Whether its good or bad is irrelevant. People are trying to legislate their values and beliefs on others.

People should be free to do what ever they want with out paying ridiculous taxes because some politician decided he/she didnt like it.



Twas funny yesterday when I heard a local Neocon radio guy playing Obama and Biden clips quoting that they "will not raise a single tax of any type for anyone making less than 250k" I guess that didnt apply here

Funny too was later on when he said what you did above in a different way; he said that some 400 lb dude was complaining about smokers to him - he wanted to say back "and we are going tax your f**king chesseburgers next!"

It is ludicrous, while I do not smoke, governments "selective" taxing to help "overall health" is a bunch of BS and yes cheeseburger taxes are next if we do not stop this lunacy.

what does become interesting for the nanny state is when the black market expands for cigs and the revenue the stupid taxation lover politicians "planned" for dries up or goes down. dont worry they will spend the money it didnt raise anyway

Working Poor
04-02-2009, 05:49 AM
This is one tax I kinda agree with. It has been known for a long time that commercial tobacco is very bad for health. This will make smokers think about what they value.

Truth Warrior
04-02-2009, 05:51 AM
This is one tax I kinda agree with. It has been known for a long time that commercial tobacco is very bad for health. This will make smokers think about what they value.

-5,000 :p

smithtg
04-02-2009, 06:05 AM
This is one tax I kinda agree with. It has been known for a long time that commercial tobacco is very bad for health. This will make smokers think about what they value.

Freedom is about choice, if they choose to live unhealthy the nanny state does not have to step in and tax them to "save them" or taxation to make them "think about what they value" is just a stupid concept from the beginning

Just because something is unhealthy doesnt mean you cant compare it with something equally as stupid

say for instance Ill tax you for choosing to sleep in a hammock since it may be "unhealthy" for your back instead of sleeping in a bed

Munier1
04-02-2009, 06:20 AM
The situation we are currently facing is a good example of why we cannot play this silly game of thinking that excise taxes are less tyrannical than income taxes or property taxes as a source of revenue generation. They are all wrong in principle. Of course, all of this really amounts to is governments needing to somehow cope with the over-spending they are doing. This has NOTHING to do with the health of the public.

Working Poor
04-02-2009, 06:31 AM
I think advertising took choice away concerning tobacco. There are many people who smoke who were influenced by the powerful ads on TV and in print going deeply into the sub-conscience mind. Their children smoke because they grew up around smokers. I don't call this choice I call it hypnotism.

I mean who in their right mind would call putting this in their body a choice to do so? I think commercial brands of tobacco ought to be illegal because of the influence of advertisement.

This is why it is okay to poison our food, water,and our bodies because of choice? Children sit in front of TVs listening to garbage about sugary snacks and microwave food no this is not choice.

This tax is one thing that government is doing to make you think about your options.

sluggo
04-02-2009, 06:38 AM
Eventually, government will start taxing the daylights out of sodas and candy bars to try to *ahem* keep people from getting fat. Then they'll start putting GPS units on all cars and tax you for every mile you drive above your government-determined limit. (Don't laugh, the state of NC is considering this).

It only becomes a problem when it begins to affect you. Does anyone really think they are going to stop with just tobacco? They are not. Letting them do it to smokers is just allowing them to get that much closer to YOU.

Truth Warrior
04-02-2009, 06:49 AM
"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up." -- Pastor Martin Niemoller

DAFTEK
04-02-2009, 06:57 AM
I guess i am one of the few who has no problems with this tax increase, i smoked heavily for 14 years and finally quit when my doc told me i have two choices and i thought back then cigarettes wore expensive..... I lost 90 pounds of fat in 10 months and put on 15 of pure muscle in 7 years since i quit... I now hate even the faintest smell of smoke around me and i don't associate with smokers since i cant stand being around the smoke! The ban on smoking in bars and restaurants was the best thing that happened also for non smokers.... To each his won i guess... :p :D

Truth Warrior
04-02-2009, 07:00 AM
I guess i am one of the few who has no problems with this tax increase, i smoked heavily for 14 years and finally quit when my doc told me i have two choices and i thought back then cigarettes wore expensive..... I lost 90 pounds of fat in 10 months and put on 15 of pure muscle in 7 years since i quit... I now hate even the faintest smell of smoke around me and i don't associate with smokers since i cant stand being around the smoke! The ban on smoking in bars and restaurants was the best thing that happened also for non smokers.... To each his won i guess... :p :D Ask the bar and restaurant owners about that, or at least the ones that are STILL in business. ;)

nayjevin
04-02-2009, 07:02 AM
The situation we are currently facing is a good example of why we cannot play this silly game of thinking that excise taxes are less tyrannical than income taxes or property taxes as a source of revenue generation. They are all wrong in principle. Of course, all of this really amounts to is governments needing to somehow cope with the over-spending they are doing. This has NOTHING to do with the health of the public.

I think you're right!

nayjevin
04-02-2009, 07:05 AM
I think commercial brands of tobacco ought to be illegal because of the influence of advertisement.

This is why it is okay to poison our food, water,and our bodies because of choice? Children sit in front of TVs listening to garbage about sugary snacks and microwave food no this is not choice.

This tax is one thing that government is doing to make you think about your options.

It sucks that people are manipulated by ads - but instituting rules over them to 'protect' them from it is a slippery slope.

Government solutions don't work.

I often fall into the trap of believing 'things would be better if only the rules were different', but in reality, each individual making their own rules minimizes injustice.

Working Poor
04-02-2009, 07:09 AM
I have heard many people say make drugs legal and tax the heck out them how is this different?

Ninja Homer
04-02-2009, 07:12 AM
We should have a 100% income tax on anybody that uses screen names of "Working Poor" or "DAFTEK". After all, it wouldn't effect me, but it would help them because they would learn why mob rule sucks and should be destroyed!

Truth Warrior
04-02-2009, 07:15 AM
I have heard many people say make drugs legal and tax the heck out them how is this different?

Question: Your solutions, on stopping drug trade, is, give up, give up to world drugs. I say zero tolerance, we use the military for aid, we stop it from getting into the country, we cut it off at the source. Why give up on that fight?

Ron Paul: What you give up on is a tyrannical approach to solving a social and medical problem. We endorse the idea of voluntarism, self-responsibility, family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion, it never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person, it can't make you follow good habits. Why don't they put you on a diet, you're a little overweight...
The Morton Downey Jr. Show, July 4, 1988

DAFTEK
04-02-2009, 07:20 AM
We should have a 100% income tax on anybody that uses screen names of "Working Poor" or "DAFTEK". After all, it wouldn't effect me, but it would help them because they would learn why mob rule sucks and should be destroyed!

Which is why many people keep to themselves and don't post their opinion because of the few who think by attacking one gets the rest of the pack to attack that one single person for not having the same view as the attacker.... heh, no KMA and QFT.. :rolleyes:

Ninja Homer
04-02-2009, 07:27 AM
Which is why many people keep to themselves and don't post their opinion because of the few who think by attacking one gets the rest of the pack to attack that one single person for not having the same view as the attacker.... heh, no KMA and QFT.. :rolleyes:

Not an attack, just a simple example of why the tobacco tax is wrong. The moral of the story is, "should we support the rights of everybody, or just the ones that effect us personally?"

DAFTEK
04-02-2009, 07:43 AM
Not an attack, just a simple example of why the tobacco tax is wrong. The moral of the story is, "should we support the rights of everybody, or just the ones that effect us personally?"

I don't view this the same way as an income tax but more of exactly what it is "a sale tax". You assume I'm against Liberty? I think if you want to smoke go at it, but pay the tax so that when you get sick and have no money for the rest of us non smoking taxpayers can take care of you in the ER.

Someone on this forum said, once that some of the people here want programed ROBOTS for leaders! Do you agree with everything Dr. Paul says? What some people on this forum want is beyond freedom. Why would you need a government if it has no job? Lets just shut down Washington and live free with no regulations then....:rolleyes:

I disrespected no one and i posted my view on this one issue, fair enough? :p

nayjevin
04-02-2009, 08:00 AM
I have heard many people say make drugs legal and tax the heck out them how is this different?

both arguments are wrong, IMO

Ninja Homer
04-02-2009, 08:11 AM
I don't view this the same way as an income tax but more of exactly what it is "a sale tax". You assume I'm against Liberty? I think if you want to smoke go at it, but pay the tax so that when you get sick and have no money for the rest of us non smoking taxpayers can take care of you in the ER.

Someone on this forum said, once that some of the people here want programed ROBOTS for leaders! Do you agree with everything Dr. Paul says? What some people on this forum want is beyond freedom. Why would you need a government if it has no job? Lets just shut down Washington and live free with no regulations then....:rolleyes:

I disrespected no one and i posted my view on this one issue, fair enough? :p

If the tobacco tax actually went towards paying tobacco user's medical bills I'd be slightly more accepting of it, but it doesn't. It goes towards SCHIP, which is an expansion of the federal government and a move towards socialized health care.

RevolutionSD
04-02-2009, 08:42 AM
If the tobacco tax actually went towards paying tobacco user's medical bills I'd be slightly more accepting of it, but it doesn't. It goes towards SCHIP, which is an expansion of the federal government and a move towards socialized health care.

If you are a libertarian, you would be against ALL taxes.
Taxes are merely theft. You can't be for stealing from one group unless you are okay with being stolen from for another reason you may not agree with.

qh4dotcom
04-02-2009, 08:57 AM
The tax isnt what you should be worried about. The crime is. If youre worried about someone blowing smoke in the air then you get a whiff of it, I think you should be a lot more concerned about getting shot in the head, because when those people cant afford their cigarettes, they are going to take it out of everyone elses asses!

Crime will go up! Mark my words!

You can survive without cigarettes....lack of food is what will cause the crime rate to go up.

qh4dotcom
04-02-2009, 09:00 AM
My ex-girlfriend smokes and I wasn't happy about buying her cigarettes...and her poor daughter has lived all her life breathing smoke as she doesn't bother to go outside to do it...so I don't mind this tax increase.

Sarge
04-02-2009, 09:10 AM
Then those in CA, who like taxes, will not mind this,

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/consumer&id=6737550

Give it a couple of months, and watch the howling. Yep, the tax will go away in a couple of years.

Coming to your state shortly.

DAFTEK
04-02-2009, 09:10 AM
We should have a 100% income tax on anybody that uses screen names of "Working Poor" or "DAFTEK". After all, it wouldn't effect me, but it would help them because they would learn why mob rule sucks and should be destroyed!


My ex-girlfriend smokes and I wasn't happy about buying her cigarettes...and her poor daughter has lived all her life breathing smoke as she doesn't bother to go outside to do it...so I don't mind this tax increase.

Hey "Ninja Homer" you have another person to add to that list to tax 100% income tax..:rolleyes:

Ninja Homer
04-02-2009, 09:16 AM
If you are a libertarian, you would be against ALL taxes.
Taxes are merely theft. You can't be for stealing from one group unless you are okay with being stolen from for another reason you may not agree with.

Oh, I definitely agree with you. I was just acknowledging that taking from one minority and giving it back to that minority is more fair than taking from one minority and giving it to another, but I'm still against it as a whole.

What gets me is all the people who think big tobacco is evil for using people's nicotine addictions to make a profit, but yet they think it's a good thing when the government does the same. It doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

BillyDkid
04-02-2009, 09:17 AM
My ex-girlfriend smokes and I wasn't happy about buying her cigarettes...and her poor daughter has lived all her life breathing smoke as she doesn't bother to go outside to do it...so I don't mind this tax increase.
Problem is, whether you think people should smoke or not, it's another example of governing by expediency versus governing by principle. That is the slippery slope and we have been sliding down it for a long time. Government should get out of the social engineering business altogether. There are lots of laws that make some people happy, but infringe on the rights of others.

Ninja Homer
04-02-2009, 09:20 AM
Hey "Ninja Homer" you have another person to add to that list to tax 100% income tax..:rolleyes:

Nah... instead I'll shorten the list to just you. The example still holds true. :D

Truth Warrior
04-02-2009, 09:22 AM
"It all just depends on who's ox is getting gored". BTW, this is another MAJOR way the STATE continues to GROW! The DUMBOCRATS are in control, buckle up! It's just starting.

"When people say 'let's do something about it,' they mean 'let's get hold of the political machinery so that we can do something to somebody else.' And that somebody is invariably you." -- Frank Chodorov

DAFTEK
04-02-2009, 09:27 AM
Nah... instead I'll shorten the list to just you. The example still holds true. :D

I wouldn't talk with a screen name like 'Ninja Homer" if i wore you...:rolleyes:

phill4paul
04-02-2009, 09:43 AM
I can't believe the points of some members on this board.:mad:

Anyone that thinks a higher tax on smoking is somehow a good thing totally misses the point. They support a huge tax increase on something merely because they personally don't like it, think that this tax will somehow pay their share of the health care costs (it doesn't, it pays for the health care of indigent parents children so in essence smokers are paying the health care of children they never had) or believe that it is the governments purpose to socially engineer America.

Well based on their criteria let me try one:

I don't like having to pay taxes for children I never had. Children are noisy, unruly and inevitably spoil any dinner I try to eat out or movie I try to see with incessant caterwauling. I think they should be barred from restaurants and public places. Especially, when it comes to children of indigent parents. I have to pay for their school bills, their health care and their food. They also get rebates from the Federal government so I have to make up the difference.
Therefore I think a tax of $20,000 dollars on every unborn child followed by a tax of $10,000 per year per child is a fair tax. Indigent children are such a drain on the system that if the parent can't raise these taxes than the unborn should be a aborted before they become a drain on the system and eventually grow up to be criminals.

How's that for your social engineering lesson?:rolleyes:

Dr.3D
04-02-2009, 09:52 AM
thats a ridiculous tax, but i hate cigarette smoke anyway, it poisons my air
it's perfectly legal for someone to be walking in front of me on a public sidewalk blowing poisonous air into my face which ends up in my lungs, but would it be legal for me to pour poison on somebody's food? No.

Well, are you going to ask the government to tax people who are burning leaves in the fall? The smoke from those burning piles of leaves is more toxic than the cigarette smoke you are complaining about.

Your exposure to the cigarette smoke is not enough to cause you any damage. All of the propaganda about how hazardous second hand smoke from cigarettes is really just more noise from those who would like to shut down the industry.

We will lose all of our freedoms as people accept more and more of the unscientific nonsense being spewed from the main stream media about cigarettes and other things such as the so called "green house gases".

Never forget who controls and owns the main stream media!

Ninja Homer
04-02-2009, 10:04 AM
I wouldn't talk with a screen name like 'Ninja Homer" if i wore you...:rolleyes:

That doesn't even make sense. :rolleyes:

DAFTEK
04-02-2009, 10:06 AM
That doesn't even make sense. :rolleyes:

I never expected you to comprehend it anyway... :rolleyes:

nayjevin
04-02-2009, 10:09 AM
That doesn't even make sense. :rolleyes:

boycott vague people lol... waste of time

Truth Warrior
04-02-2009, 10:10 AM
BTW, the tax did NOT begin today. It just got a LOT BIGGER overnight. :p Are the Feds STILL subsidizing the tobacco farmers?

nayjevin
04-02-2009, 10:10 AM
well, are you going to ask the government to tax people who are burning leaves in the fall? The smoke from those burning piles of leaves is more toxic than the cigarette smoke you are complaining about.

Your exposure to the cigarette smoke is not enough to cause you any damage. All of the propaganda about how hazardous second hand smoke from cigarettes is really just more noise from those who would like to shut down the industry.

We will lose all of our freedoms as people accept more and more of the unscientific nonsense being spewed from the main stream media about cigarettes and other things such as the so called "green house gases".

Never forget who controls and owns the main stream media!

ban campfires!

1000-points-of-fright
04-02-2009, 10:24 AM
Isn't this tax supposed to fund children's healthcare?

Y'know what would serve these clueless do-gooders right? The cigarette tax hike causes everyone to quit smoking thereby ruining the tobacco industry, putting thousands more people out of work during a recession and eliminating the tax revenues for children's healthcare.

phill4paul
04-02-2009, 10:26 AM
Isn't this tax supposed to fund children's healthcare?

Y'know what would serve these clueless do-gooders right? The cigarette tax hike causes everyone to quit smoking thereby ruining the tobacco industry, putting thousands more people out of work during a recession and eliminating the tax revenues for children's healthcare.

Not gonna happen. The revenues will be transferred.

brandon
04-02-2009, 10:29 AM
Motherfucker. I guess it's time for me to quit.

Or maybe I just will switch to dip. I don't think they're taxing that as much.

phill4paul
04-02-2009, 10:37 AM
N.C. Governor is calling for extra $1.00 cig tax and 5 percent increase to liquor to help balance the budget.

The tax on cigarettes in N.C., Fed and State, will be higher than the cost of the product.

Quit? I've never been a quitter.:p I'll just grow it myself and completely cut them out of the loop.

brandon
04-02-2009, 10:39 AM
Damn the fedgov is going to get rich on this tax.

Assume 100 million packs of cigs are smoked per day in the USSA.

Fedgov is now making $1.01 per pack, or $101,000,000 a day

That equals $36,865,000,000 or almost 37 billion dollars a year for doing nothing at all.

Meanwhile, Phillip Morris only made $6 billion in profit last year.

And then these same big government goons that impose massive cigarette taxes and bans on smoking in private establishments try to demonize "big tobacco" as some evil greedy corporation.

Lulz, I'm in dream world

Fr3shjive
04-02-2009, 10:40 AM
We pay too much in taxes as it is but or politicians to legislate their values on other pisses me off more than anything. PEOPLE ARE FREE TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.

phill4paul
04-02-2009, 10:46 AM
We pay too much in taxes as it is but or politicians to legislate their values on other pisses me off more than anything. PEOPLE ARE FREE TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.

People that can afford to pay their taxes are free to make their own decisions.

Fr3shjive
04-02-2009, 10:59 AM
People that can afford to pay their taxes are free to make their own decisions.

Smokers dont already pay taxes? Now they must pay more taxes because some politician doesnt like one of their habits. The government can go fuck themselves.

Ninja Homer
04-02-2009, 11:08 AM
Motherfucker. I guess it's time for me to quit.

Or maybe I just will switch to dip. I don't think they're taxing that as much.

Search around for tax free or duty free cigarettes and you can find sites that sell for pretty cheap. I think they're cheap anyway, I guess I don't really know how much cigarettes go for these days.

I'm pretty sure chewing tobacco went up as well, but I'm not sure by how much. The real killer is the increase in RYO tobacco tax... I think it was around 2300%. Big tobacco lobbied against the tobacco tax increase until they upped the RYO tobacco tax increase 2300%, and then they lobbied for the tobacco tax increase. Now RYO is a lot closer to the cost of big tobacco cigs, so a lot of people are going back to buying by the carton.

If you want to switch to something, give snus a try. Snus has been used in Sweden for a long time, and it's proven to be a LOT safer for you than smoking or American chewing tobacco. I don't remember the exact reason why it's better for you, but it has something to do with how it's cured. You don't have to spit... it's safe to swallow the snus juice. Camel now makes a couple flavors of snus so you can try it from your local tobacco store. If you like it, you can get it online for a lot cheaper, more portions, and more variety to pick from. http://northerner.com

Another option is e-cigarettes. For anything you'd want to know about them: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com

brandon
04-02-2009, 11:22 AM
I actually tried "snus" before but didn't know what it was called until right now. Camel was giving it out for free at a concert I went to. It was pretty good.

Thanks for the tips!

Dr.3D
04-02-2009, 01:31 PM
It is illegal in some states to buy cigs off of the internet. If they catch you, you will pay a hefty fine.

I remember a fellow who was buying smokes from Russia and he got caught. It really cost him a lot of money in the end.

SimpleName
04-02-2009, 02:49 PM
This government is truly taking care of the poor. Buying cigarettes is a bad idea no matter the case, but some people can't go without them unless they want to go through severe mental and physical stress. Inflating the price will only make the poor smokers MORE poor. They still "need" it to suppress the the stress of daily life. It isn't helping them at all. And I wouldn't doubt, poor people are more prone to smoking due to higher stress levels.

Why do I even try to reason on here anymore? I talk as if the politicians are actually representatives and want to help me out or something. The politicians and elitists aren't reasoning anything but what will give them more power. They are just looking for control with their corporate buddies. Not even a second is spent on the citizens well-being anymore.