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View Full Version : Trying to Coalesce the Ron Paul Supporters into the Left




AuH20
04-01-2009, 04:33 PM
This is a fantastic conversation between Chomsky and a curious college student:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNWIarcCM44&feature=player_embedded

"they're extremely cynical................"

Damn straight we are! If you understood the constitution and have observed what has transpired, you'd be cynical as well. Thats priceless commentary.

thasre
04-01-2009, 07:17 PM
Oh my god that interviewer kid sounds EXACTLY like Cody Willard. LOL.

sdczen
04-01-2009, 09:48 PM
Chomsky is a stooge. He calls himself a social libertarian and he ascribes the need for social democracy. What he doesn't tell you is when the 51% votes on the rights of the 49% that it only works when the ideas fit into his ideology. Take the gay marriage ban in California. That is a perfect example of the tyranny of the majority. 60% of the voters decided what type of marriage could be law.

I wonder if he'll be singing the same tune when 51% of the people vote limit freedom of speech for people like him. It's a slippery slope that ole democratic mob...

Kludge
04-01-2009, 10:05 PM
Chomsky is getting awfully old. I'm sad that he won't be with us much longer and excited to hear what he has to say (honestly, I don't know too much about him), even though I disagree with him.

I disliked this interview because they claimed Ron Paul supporters were the ultra-right, which is, to an extent, untrue. I think it's intellectually dishonest to frame us as such when we are a conservative-libertarian movement. It'd be like saying the United States is simply a democracy, which is true to an extent (as a representative democracy), but it'd be more accurate to say that we are a Constitutional Republic.

I see what Chomsky is saying about being excited to pay taxes, but I don't think that's possible with such a large Federal government. The Federal government (a centralized power) is unable to be a functioning democracy because there is no easy escape from the Federal government for those who are solely US citizens. The biggest difference between left and right that I see, is the belief in the effectiveness of federal vs. state governments. Chomsky's arguments would hold much more water, I think, if he advocated his beliefs on social issues along with a belief that those duties to accomplish his social goals should be carried out by as local of governments as possible.

BenIsForRon
04-01-2009, 10:39 PM
Yeah, his argument was rather simplistic; it seems his age is affecting his ability to make sharp intellectual arguments. Democracy is about more than government, and it is especially about more than the actions of the federal government.

micahnelson
04-01-2009, 10:58 PM
There is no left and right .. there are those who want liberty secured, and others who want to be secured.

Dreamofunity
04-01-2009, 11:23 PM
Chomsky is slipping in his old age. Still incorrect, but less coherent.

Cleaner44
04-01-2009, 11:28 PM
Noam Chomsky is an idiot.

Liberty Rebellion
04-01-2009, 11:41 PM
On my path to my current political ideology (former big-government Green), I heard some things from Chomsky, but never REALLY got into him.

I really can't follow what he's talking about. It's the opposite of the way I think. He says in a democracy WE would all be happy to pay our income taxes for the things WE all agreed upon to make us and our lives better (paraphrasing). To that I say bullshit. Things WE agreed upon? Who's WE in that situation? 51% of the voting population. Hell, the majority might say exterminating some ethnic group would be better for "WE", but it doesn't make the soon to be exterminated group any better.

Without respect for personal property and individual liberty there can be no freedom in a Democracy. Only tyranny by the majority.

It's such a simple concept, I don't know why Chomsky can't see that.

hugolp
04-02-2009, 12:14 AM
On my path to my current political ideology (former big-government Green), I heard some things from Chomsky, but never REALLY got into him.

I really can't follow what he's talking about. It's the opposite of the way I think. He says in a democracy WE would all be happy to pay our income taxes for the things WE all agreed upon to make us and our lives better (paraphrasing). To that I say bullshit. Things WE agreed upon? Who's WE in that situation? 51% of the voting population. Hell, the majority might say exterminating some ethnic group would be better for "WE", but it doesn't make the soon to be exterminated group any better.

Without respect for personal property and individual liberty there can be no freedom in a Democracy. Only tyranny by the majority.

It's such a simple concept, I don't know why Chomsky can't see that.

He thinks he is more inteligent than the rest. Its a problem with the left, liberals, socialist, and the kind. They are tyranic because they know whats best for everybody. THEY KNOW, and they really think they are too damm inteligent to be wrong. Thats why they feel its ok to impose their views since they will do good to everybody. They are arrogant as hell and some of them (the more idealistic) dont see they are hurting people with those ideas.

purplechoe
04-02-2009, 01:11 AM
On my path to my current political ideology (former big-government Green), I heard some things from Chomsky, but never REALLY got into him.

I really can't follow what he's talking about. It's the opposite of the way I think. He says in a democracy WE would all be happy to pay our income taxes for the things WE all agreed upon to make us and our lives better (paraphrasing). To that I say bullshit. Things WE agreed upon? Who's WE in that situation? 51% of the voting population. Hell, the majority might say exterminating some ethnic group would be better for "WE", but it doesn't make the soon to be exterminated group any better.

Without respect for personal property and individual liberty there can be no freedom in a Democracy. Only tyranny by the majority.

It's such a simple concept, I don't know why Chomsky can't see that.

Chomsky very much reminds me of Ellsworth Toohey from The Fountainhead. I think he does get it. It's the "elite" disdain for the common man which they see as an idiot who needs to be told what to do or like a sheep that needs to be led.

Liberty Rebellion
04-02-2009, 01:18 AM
Chomsky very much reminds me of Ellsworth Toohey from The Fountainhead. I think he does get it. It's the "elite" disdain for the common man which they see as an idiot who needs to be told what to do or like a sheep that needs to be led.

Then he doesn't get the part about respecting individual liberty and personal property.

Conza88
04-02-2009, 01:37 AM
Ok, I was a chomskyite when I first heard of RP - first hearing actual Liberty, I pretty much converted right away. But it took me months to lose the old baggage totally.

Thats what lots of people do; they slowly leave the false left / right paradigm - but they often keep some of the baggage from where they just departed from.

Got to check yourself.

Anyway, I think a part of why i watched his videos late at night is because his voice just makes you want to go to sleep..... LOL

Seriously, it puts you in a trance.. >.>

idiom
04-02-2009, 03:03 AM
I am happy to pay my taxes, but I live in a responsive democracy of only ~4 Million people.

The US Federal government is pretty clearly hopeless and just functions as a strawman for anti-government arguments.

It is unbelievable that *anyone* supports it anymore.

GunnyFreedom
04-02-2009, 03:17 AM
lols @ the Constitution being 'not graven in stone' always gotta put the progressive dig...