View Full Version : "The Battle for Haditha" - A film that everyone needs to see
ClayTrainor
03-31-2009, 04:57 AM
I am going to start passing this movie out to everyone that I know. I think it will wake up a lot of people that still blame "Muslims" for the war on terror, and avoid the Blowback principle. (Neo-Cons)
This is an extremely powerful film, and is very gritty and realistic. You will have to watch this with a strong and open mind, and be prepared to be overwhelmed by sadness, anger and flat-out rage. I was very angry at certain parts of this film, watching young, dumb soldiers act on their emotions and not logic.
Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPhhMh1p-Hc
ClayTrainor
03-31-2009, 06:17 AM
bump....
Seriously guys, go watch this if you can. I will not stop thinking about this movie for years.
rpfan2008
03-31-2009, 06:56 AM
^ Have you ever read the Q'uran. Just asking. :)
ClayTrainor
03-31-2009, 07:05 AM
^ Have you ever read the Q'uran. Just asking. :)
I've read a little about the history of it, and some excerpts from it, but no, not in full.
What makes you ask?
rpfan2008
03-31-2009, 07:10 AM
Just wondering, nothing in particular.
But I'd suggest read it in full along with the Hadiths, if you feel like doing it, again.
ClayTrainor
03-31-2009, 07:14 AM
Just wondering, nothing in particular.
But I'd suggest read it in full along with the Hadiths, if you feel like doing it, again.
i'll keep that in mind, thanks :)
ClayTrainor
03-31-2009, 07:17 AM
You cant really understand the Quran in English.... its always going to be interpreted differently, just how the Bible isn't interperted 100% that's why most use the King James Bible.
Interesting point, i never realized this.
. But I will watch this movie since you've recommended it, I'll get back to you.
I look forward to hearing what you think.
I suggest this copy of the Quran, it explains it well.
is there supposed to be a link in this post?
rpfan2008
03-31-2009, 07:18 AM
^ Why would you want him to read only that version of Q'uran?
He can Google, amazon if he wants.
ClayTrainor
03-31-2009, 07:38 AM
I suggest this copy of the Quran, it explains it well.
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Quran-Seventh-Allamah-Nooruddin/dp/0963206737/ref=ed_oe_o
Because I'm a Muslim and know how to speak Arabic and I believe that Quran translates it well and also explains it.
Like I said there are different versions of the Quran translated. And I'm recommending to him one that I've read that explains the Quran.
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Quran-Seventh-Allamah-Nooruddin/dp/0963206737/ref=ed_oe_o
Much appreciated :cool:
ClayTrainor
03-31-2009, 09:16 AM
Here's a very provocative discussion with the filmmakers.
ClayTrainor
03-31-2009, 11:08 AM
I'm surprised not very many people are interested in this...
This is the most powerful movie i've ever seen.
Please take the time to watch it, and spread it :)
Zolah
03-31-2009, 01:08 PM
Well I'm glad to see a thread about the movie, I watched it last year on channel 4 in the UK and thought it was great, well worth a watch, would even watch it again because it was good. The basics of the movie as I understood it was - yes there are terrorists and insurgents, but why are they doing what they doing, and the movie tries to make people empathise with ordinary people in Iraq who are negatively affected by the 'War on Terror' and yes, the US troops (marines I think) are criminals, they killed innocent people in a blind rage, but the audience can also emphathise with the marines, the stresses they're under, the way they're moulded by their superior officers, the constant threat perceived that absolutely anyone who approaches them could very realistically be a suicide bomber, etc.
I think it's a great message and true - you can't just spit on soldiers and call them babykillers Viet Nam-esque, and simply blaming Iraqi's for defending their country won't attain any progress, and hopefully people can see the fundamental flaws in the so-called 'War on Terror'.
And the movie is enjoyable in a cinematic sense, also drawing on an immense pull on emotions. :)
ClayTrainor
04-01-2009, 09:46 AM
Well I'm glad to see a thread about the movie, I watched it last year on channel 4 in the UK and thought it was great, well worth a watch, would even watch it again because it was good. The basics of the movie as I understood it was - yes there are terrorists and insurgents, but why are they doing what they doing, and the movie tries to make people empathise with ordinary people in Iraq who are negatively affected by the 'War on Terror' and yes, the US troops (marines I think) are criminals, they killed innocent people in a blind rage, but the audience can also emphathise with the marines, the stresses they're under, the way they're moulded by their superior officers, the constant threat perceived that absolutely anyone who approaches them could very realistically be a suicide bomber, etc.
I think it's a great message and true - you can't just spit on soldiers and call them babykillers Viet Nam-esque, and simply blaming Iraqi's for defending their country won't attain any progress, and hopefully people can see the fundamental flaws in the so-called 'War on Terror'.
Yea man, that's why this move was so powerful. It's really hard to blame any of the main characters for the situation they were in. It was all just totally fubar'd.
Nobody was right, everybody was wrong :o
ChooseLiberty
04-01-2009, 10:12 AM
It's on goog vid
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7220628179987886077
ClayTrainor
04-01-2009, 10:18 AM
It's on goog vid
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7220628179987886077
Nice, Thanks!
ClayTrainor
12-27-2009, 12:33 AM
Sorry for bumping an old thread.
I managed to distribute this film to some family over the holidays, and the reception has been profound. As far as i can tell, it's very hard for pro-war people to justify the evil's this film depicts, and they know it.
This movie really gives people an unbias'd look at the Iraq war, and how neither "side" is really doing the right thing. I think we can use this as a conversion tool, in bringing people into an understanding of the logic behind a non-interventionist position.
:)
orafi
12-27-2009, 10:02 AM
Just wondering, nothing in particular.
But I'd suggest read it in full along with the Hadiths, if you feel like doing it, again.
Go ahead and read the hadiths, but don't take them seriously. They have nothing to do with the Quran
raiha
12-27-2009, 03:45 PM
Thanks will watch it tonight.
Have read the Old Testament of the Bible and that put me off all monotheism.
Morgan Brykein
12-27-2009, 07:57 PM
Charges were dropped against all but one of the Marines who perpetrated the massacre at Haditha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings).
GunnyFreedom
12-27-2009, 08:16 PM
I've got at least a full day on the torrent for this. The Gvid is made of unobtaneum.
Baptist
12-28-2009, 06:15 AM
Charges were dropped against all but one of the Marines who perpetrated the massacre at Haditha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings).
Yeah and Rep Murtha came out on day 1 and condemned all the marines as guilty. I'll never forget that Murtha.
Baptist
12-28-2009, 06:19 AM
You cant really understand the Quran in English.... its always going to be interpreted differently, just how the Bible isn't interperted 100% that's why most use the King James Bible.
Read the Quran in context. But I will watch this movie since you've recommended it, I'll get back to you.
My Bible is 100% accurate. I do not believe that the KJV is a translation. I believe that IT IS the Word of God. KJV... everything else, is just a translation (crappy ones at that).
I thought that the Quran isn't written down? I thought that the Quran is the spoken words in Arabic? Or am I wrong? That is, the Quran written in Arabic is the Quran? I know that Muslims do not consider any non-Arab writings the Quran. My Quran sucks. It's some old Penguin Classics one that looks like it's meant to be read by a first-grader.
I saw a trailer for this movie awhile ago Clay. I will watch it this week at work.
orafi
12-28-2009, 12:24 PM
My Bible is 100% accurate. I do not believe that the KJV is a translation. I believe that IT IS the Word of God. KJV... everything else, is just a translation (crappy ones at that).
I thought that the Quran isn't written down? I thought that the Quran is the spoken words in Arabic? Or am I wrong? That is, the Quran written in Arabic is the Quran? I know that Muslims do not consider any non-Arab writings the Quran. My Quran sucks. It's some old Penguin Classics one that looks like it's meant to be read by a first-grader.
I saw a trailer for this movie awhile ago Clay. I will watch it this week at work.
Just because not many Muslims will consider any non Arabic Qurans to be legitimate, does not make it so. No where in the Quran does God say that it must be in taught in Arabic. After all, there are verses in the Quran that say it is easy to learn. Why make it difficult?
Though I would still recommend the original language over translations.
inibo
12-28-2009, 12:39 PM
I've got at least a full day on the torrent for this. The Gvid is made of unobtaneum.
He he, unobtaneum. I have a sneaking suspicion that word will become as ubiquitous as yada, yada.
GunnyFreedom
12-28-2009, 02:58 PM
Very powerful and moving...
I think at the end of the day it demonstrates that LIC, or what is called Low Intensity Conflict, is not a proper duty for our military. The military is, and is supposed to be, a blunt instrument of efficient, wholesale destruction. The founders were exactly right in requiring a declaration of war, as the only time our military should be used, is in the prosecution of full-scale war.
I think the same thing is said in different words when people say that the military is made for total assaults and total defense, and that they are not suited for police actions. These same events, tragic and catastrophic in a "police action" would have been heroic in a force-on-force full-scale war where they faced not innocent civilians, but actual enemies. In this kind of "war" that is not a proper distinction, and therefore you have nightmares like this one.
Cpl Ramirez was way too high-strung for the responsibility he had here. But again, this was less a fault of his and more a fault of the situation he was placed in. It boils down to the politics of an illegitimate and undeclared war, that continued long after the usefulness of the "blunt object" military had expired. Although I am in vehement disagreement with our entry into Iraq in the first place, had we withdrawn entirely following the capture of Saddam Hussein, we would not have found ourselves in this situation in the first place.
A surgeon does not use a broadsword for delicate surgery, he uses a scalpel. While I can easily fault the Cpl for his high-strung reaction leading to the massacre, it is important to remember that the function of any tool follows it's form. Had this been after the example of unrestrained warfare, such as Nazi Germany in WW2, a similar reaction would likely have killed or captured enemy combatants rather than innocent civilians. I wouldn't place the blame so much on the broadsword, but on the hand wielding it: Bush/Cheney.
Further, the movie demonstrates exactly what I have been saying since the day we went in...for every one terrorist we kill, we create ten more. Our future is far more dangerous today, than it was on September 12th 2001, as a direct result of the ignorant reaction of our then-President George W Bush.
I will add that the Marines were portrayed just a little bit more profane and bloodthirsty than is found in reality from my experience. Sure, Marines in general drop the F-bomb a lot more than your average civilian, but not nearly as much as the movie depicts, IMHO. You always have 'that one guy' who can't spit out ten words without 5 of them being an f-bomb, mind you, but it's not like everybody acts that way.
It was a good, powerful, and moving drama. It seems to have just a little bit of anti-Marine and pro-Iraqi slant to it, but not enough bias to reject whole-cloth. I would assert that in general, Marines are more caring and compassionate than the movie depicts, and much of the evidence that may be produced to the contrary reveals more of a superficial reaction to the horrors of war than a true depiction of their core personalities.
devil21
01-03-2010, 03:54 AM
Video here (asian youtube):
Battle For Haditha (17th Mar 2008) [PDTV (DivX)] - 视频 - 优酷视频 - 在线观看 - kopros (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjcxNTQzNzY=.html)
I just started it so apologies in advance if incomplete or any issues. Appears to be full movie.
eta: It's complete. If this is an accurate representation of the Haditha incident then there is no way those Marines should have been cleared of wrong doing. Anyway thanks for the original post. This movie demonstrates exactly why the whole WoT is a clusterfuck and was absolutely doomed from the start. One man's "terrorist" is another man's "freedom fighter" and that can never be forced out of people. The largest group that pays are innocent civilians that have no options or say in the war and that serves only to embolden the "terrorists/freedom fighters" and keeps the vicious cycle going.
http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=5338
"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy." ~ Henry Kissinger ~ January-February 2003 edition of Eagle Newsletter
I think at the end of the day it demonstrates that LIC, or what is called Low Intensity Conflict, is not a proper duty for our military. The military is, and is supposed to be, a blunt instrument of efficient, wholesale destruction. The founders were exactly right in requiring a declaration of war, as the only time our military should be used, is in the prosecution of full-scale war.
Jefferson's warnings about standing armies are also clear and true. When there are standing armies, trained as "blunt instruments", it gives the people at the top a very blunt tool to do whatever they want with, in particular when it is not in the interest of America as a whole. Those actions can, and do, make Americans less safe, whether Americans in uniform or Americans at home. We really have gotten to the point of completely ignoring the wisdom of the Founders and we pay for that ignorance every day.
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