Post your Mission Statements for the International Liberty Caucus here

[Deborah K]

The other thread is getting too big. Okay, here is my first draft, please critique or post yours here:


Our mission is to collaborate with all liberty-minded individuals, political leaders, groups, and organizations. And, to invite them to join us under one umbrella in an effort to preserve and protect our rights to individual, and national liberty and sovereignty. Among our goals, the International Liberty Movement will help organize local and international events, workshops, and political actions.

We intend to promote liberty-minded politicians and candidates from around the world. We intend to arm citizens in their communities, and within their countries with knowledge of creating alternative currencies as a back-up in the event of a world-wide economic collapse.

We believe we are on the verge of a world-wide economic collapse. And that it is orchestrated to get all nations under the control of one government. In the event of a world-wide collapse, we believe - all of us across the world – will be under the control of the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, and the Bank for International Settlements. If this happens, it will be the beginning of the end of our individual and national liberty and sovereignty.

The recent, well publicized speech by European Parliament Member Danial Hannan - a British Conservative with a Hayekian-Austrian analysis of the economic crisis and against the Iraq war - has highlighted the fact that there exists a global set of individuals with a common set of principles. His speech to European Parliament has sparked a movement among many nations for the cause of liberty.

In America, Republican Congressman Ron Paul has espoused the same virtues for many years now, and has sparked a very strong movement in America. These men have inspired in us a strong desire to preserve liberty.

It is our primary goal to work in conjunction with all liberty-minded political leaders from around the world in an effort to let those in control of our economic systems know that we are a FREE people among FREE nations - because that is what we choose for ourselves. We intend to take control of our future from this day forward.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Our primary goals include:
1. Dismantling the United Nations
2. Legalizing Competing Currencies => Phasing out fiat central banking
3. Government Confined to purpose of protecting liberty (Courts, Police etc)
4. True Free Trade between free nations with high standards of living

[Deborah K]

here is the link to the International Liberty Caucus think- tank thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=185948

[jake]

probably something about only supporting war as a defensive action and never supporting preemptive war, nor supporting violence under any other circumstances.

[Deborah K]

probably something about only supporting war as a defensive action and never supporting preemptive war, nor supporting violence under any other circumstances.


That could be listed as number 5, yes?

[jake]

That could be listed as number 5, yes?

I think that would be good. the anti-war position is well in line with Liberty :)

[ClayTrainor]

I love what you got here so far Deb!

I'll re-read and elaborate later. Just on my way out the door, right now :cool:

[Joe3113]

Please speak up if anyone is in disagreement over anything here:

Its just a draft ...

http://libertyuniversal.org/

[JoshLowry]

It looks good.

Why not promote Liberty Forest? It's on the internet which knows no border. Our traffic is nearing 100,000 unique visitors per month. We also receive many international visitors.

There has been some chatter on establishing a "We Believe..." of sorts here at this site. We may co-opt and come up with a similar one soon.

[ClayTrainor]

Please speak up if anyone is in disagreement over anything here:

Its just a draft ...

http://libertyuniversal.org/

I'm digging everything you have written.

I'll browse some good theme templates tonight and see if i can find anything good.

Also, my favorite domain is "OneWorldLiberty.Org"

[Joe3113]

I'm digging everything you have written.

I'll browse some good theme templates tonight and see if i can find anything good.

Also, my favorite domain is "OneWorldLiberty.Org"

I'm going to install wordpress now and just put up something temporary.


Please keep making suggestions.

[torchbearer]

Maybe another google documents project?

[ClayTrainor]

I'm going to install wordpress now and just put up something temporary.


Please keep making suggestions.

I recently bought all of these themes for my marketing company.

I'm not sure if theres anything that fits our needs, but they're worth a look

http://www.studiopress.com/themes

I think we could customize this one (http://www.studiopress.com/demo/tubular.html) into something of our liking



Maybe another google documents project?

What do you mean?

[torchbearer]

What do you mean?

Someone can create a google document, and everyone can work on different ideas for a mission statement and other text.
We did it for the FPIAC document.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Please speak up if anyone is in disagreement over anything here:

Its just a draft ...

http://libertyuniversal.org/

The only thing I would think about changing is the "libertarian-conservative" in the title at the top. I think that might put some people off. We may not like it but some people would be turned off by that. Perhaps something more open to everyone would suffice?

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I might also suggest an alternate name of the site. I like the one that we have established but I have also been thinking about calling it ourworldorder.com. Is there any chance that would could register multiple names and have them all direct to one central site?

[Joe3113]

I might also suggest an alternate name of the site. I like the one that we have established but I have also been thinking about calling it ourworldorder.com. Is there any chance that would could register multiple names and have them all direct to one central site?

only reason I used this one is because I had already bought it.

I'll be happy to pay for any domain that people decide is best.

[ClayTrainor]

Someone can create a google document, and everyone can work on different ideas for a mission statement and other text.
We did it for the FPIAC document.

That's a pretty good idea.

[Joe3113]

I changed the site to look a bit more elegant. No need for wordpress or anything right now.

SHIFT - REFRESH

http://libertyuniversal.org/

[Joe3113]

Should I add something in immigration:

For example: "Immigration and a welfare state are incompatible"

That's something we can all agree on. Event those of you who are Rothbardians know you cant have immigration and a welfare state. You have to close the borders.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I believe immigration is taking a toll on all nations around the globe so it might be something we should consider adding.

[nayjevin]

less is more, spare is fair


eschew obfuscation

at all points when feasible, shun the utilization of hippopotomonstrosesquipadaelian words and voluminous phrases which exceed the requisite to punctiliously impart one's explication. pleonastic periphrasis recurrently ensues in unintelligible prolixity.

In other words, whenever possible, avoid using words that are larger or more complicated than are necessary to accurately convey your message. Failure to do so often results in unsuccessful communication.

We believe individual liberty trumps centralized power in every case.

We believe in reducing the size and scope of government on all levels.

We believe peace is always possible.

We believe people should be in control of their own rules.

We hope you can agree with enough of this to join our efforts.

[Joe3113]

I believe immigration is taking a toll on all nations around the globe so it might be something we should consider adding.

The third world population is growing rapidly. A whole mexico is added every 18 months.

If you let those people flood into western countries you turn us into a third world country. Especially with the welfare state.

[Joe3113]

We believe individual liberty trumps centralized power in every case.

We believe in reducing the size and scope of government on all levels.

We believe peace is always possible.

We believe people should be in control of their own rules.

We hope you can agree with enough of this to join our efforts.

Yeah but you have to be more specific. Any analysis of the crisis other than the Austrian analysis is not acceptable.

Also support of the Iraq war is not acceptable.

The other point is fiat currency. Monetarist supporters of Milton Friedman (who famously said Mises and Hayek business cycles were wrong) will claim they believe in freedom but still want fiat currency. That is not acceptable as far as i'm concerned.


That's why i've drafted the principles like I have http://libertyuniversal.org/

[nayjevin]

Yeah but you have to be more specific.

no i don't lol


Any analysis of the crisis other than the Austrian analysis is not acceptable.

but the mission statement is not the place, IMO. else, why not just redirect to a book by Ludwig himself?


Also support of the Iraq war is not acceptable.

a mission statement should not be issue oriented IMO


The other point is fiat currency. Monetarist supporters of Milton Friedman (who famously said Mises and Hayek business cycles were wrong) will claim they believe in freedom but still want fiat currency. That is not acceptable as far as i'm concerned.

this falls under 'individual liberty trumps centralized power', IMO, but how about

currency should be based on the value of the item traded

[RedOurBack]

We believe individual liberty trumps centralized power in every case.

We believe in reducing the size and scope of government on all levels.

We believe peace is always possible.

We believe people should be in control of their own rules.

We hope you can agree with enough of this to join our efforts.

currency should be based on the value of the item traded


Love it. If they can't agree with that, fuckem.

Would not be wise to try and pick battles with opposing beliefs in the first few sentences of a mission statement.

Plus, when Barrack ends the Irack war, he will be a hero, and having something about it in the mission statement will make the org look pretty stoopid.

[Joe3113]

Republicans make generic token statements about "limited government"

Then they vote for the Iraq War and Rubber Stamp Medicare.

Also the Friedmanites claim they are libertarians when they aren't.

You gotta be specific.

[Joe3113]

Would not be wise to try and pick battles with opposing beliefs in the first few sentences of a mission statement.



Unless you say this is caused by the Federal Reserve, you are a lamb to the slaughter.

The only analysis that says this was caused by the Federal Reserve is the Austrian Analysis.

No alternative view should be tolerated as they will lead to socialism.

We want to:

1. Very concisely define our faction
2. Take concise action for specific ends on a global scale


If you get too generic about liberty then you will become a decrepit failure.


Liberty is the Austrian School. There is no other school that is consistent with liberty. None. Period.

[Joe3113]

For those who havent seen my draft proposal of principles yet:


DRAFT PRINCIPLES


The Economic Crisis

Is explained by the Mises/Hayek business cycle alone. It was caused by government NOT the market. Specifically it was caused by the combined central banking practices of the major economies of the world. Most prominently the Federal Reserve of the United States and the European Central Bank of the European Union. Central Banks are socialist-style government-ordained monopolies as outlined in the 5th Plank of the Communist Manifesto. We reject the Keynesian analysis and we reject the Chicago monetarist analysis.


Against Unjust War

The true conservative position is inherently anti-war. The rise of the neoconservative concept of preventative war (eg. Iraq) is dangerous and should be rejected.


Civil Liberties

Principles of the Magna Carta, Common Law, Habeas corpus, protection against unreasonable search an seizure and requirement of search warrants from an independent judge, are all sacrosanct and under absolutely no circumstances should be interfered with.


United Nations

In its current form of being funded via coercive taxation and having legal status above nation states, it must be phased out. It is a bastion of socialist central planning and is hostile to individual liberty. It continues to bleed liberties away from individuals via their national governments. The so-called Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a declaration of war on individual liberty.


Socialist Regional Unions

We oppose all the moves for further regional integration including the:

* Proposed North American Union
* Proposed Asia Pacific Union
* Further EU integration (Lisbon Treaty)

Like the United Nations, these are attempts to move socialist central-planning further from those who want it destroyed and further from the control of the people in general.


For Free Trade - Against Managed Trade

The majority of "free trade" agreements that exist between governments today are not free trade at all. They are managed trade agreements benefiting big corporations and political elites and are designed to facilitate the introduction of socialist regional unions and global governance. Some obvious examples are NAFTA, CAFTA, Word Trade Organisation and GATT. We favour true free trade which involves repealing legislation, not creating thousands of pages of new legislation.


http://libertyuniversal.org/

[nayjevin]

Love it. If they can't agree with that, fuckem.

Would not be wise to try and pick battles with opposing beliefs in the first few sentences of a mission statement.

Plus, when Barrack ends the Irack war, he will be a hero, and having something about it in the mission statement will make the org look pretty stoopid.

well, you and I would sure get along.

I hadn't thought of barrack ending the war as a marketing move - that's a good thought.

I agree that the mission statement should be inclusive, then the content should dictate org's beliefs. If you outline exactly what someone should believe - there is no room for debate.

However, 'if they don't agree with that, fuckem' is the attitude that I am trying to avoid by suggesting a more inclusive, non issue based mission statement.

[nayjevin]

For those who havent seen my draft proposal of principles yet:

that is extremely well written, Curlz

I maintain that if you plan to have the mission statement be the first thing visitors read, it should not have the potential of driving folks away before they can see convincing evidence.

This is the opposite of what I would try to do - first present evidence, then define the belief.

It is important to reach consensus - and I appreciate your efforts to that end.

[ClayTrainor]

that is extremely well written, Curlz

I maintain that if you plan to have the mission statement be the first thing visitors read, it should not have the potential of driving folks away before they can see convincing evidence.

This is the opposite of what I would try to do - first present evidence, then define the belief.

It is important to reach consensus - and I appreciate your efforts to that end.

So, in your mind, what would be an ideal home page? Something like a "news" page?

[Truth Warrior]

YAL Mission Statement
The mission of Young Americans for Liberty (YAL) is to train, educate, and mobilize youth activists committed to "winning on principle". Our goal is to cast the leaders of tomorrow and reclaim the policies, candidates, and direction of our government.


YAL Statement of Principles
We are the Young Americans for Liberty (YAL). As Americans we recognize the God-given natural rights of life, liberty, and property set forth by our Founding Fathers. Our country was created to protect the freedoms of the individual and directed by we the people.

We recognize that freedom deserves responsibility and therefore we hold ourselves to a high moral character and conduct. Integrity emphasizes our stance towards action. Principle defines our outlook towards government. Peace and prosperity drives our ambitions towards our countrymen.

We inherit a corrupt, coercive world that has lost respect for voluntary action. Our government has failed and dragged our country into moral decay. The political class dominates the agenda with a violent, callous, controlling grip. And, for this we do not stand.

We welcome limited government conservatives, classical liberals, and libertarians who trust in the creed we set forth.

WE, as Young Americans for Liberty believe:

THAT government is the negation of liberty;

THAT voluntary action is the only ethical behavior;

THAT respect for the individual's property is fundamental to a peaceful society;

THAT violent action is only warranted in defense of one's property;

THAT the individual owns his/her body and is therefore responsible for his/her actions;

THAT society is a responsibility of the people, not the government.

http://www.yaliberty.org/mission.php (http://www.yaliberty.org/mission.php)



Statement of Purpose: Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably strengthen that legitimacy. Voluntaryists seek instead to delegitimize the State through education, and we advocate withdrawal of the cooperation and tacit consent on which State power ultimately depends.

http://www.voluntaryist.com/ (http://www.voluntaryist.com/)

[Joe3113]

The point of this is not to be open, the point is the bring people who already have this view together to co-operate. We know the exact truth.

Ron Paul does not tolerate any alternative to the Austrian School or indeed any alternative to any of my other draft principles.

Liberty is not something that is largely subjective and open to debate. As Ron Paul constantly says, Liberty IS the Austrian School and nothing else. There is no debate needed. We cannot have monetarists who reject truth and Mises.

With Ron as the guide, verything I have written is absolutely mandatory and cannot be changed in substance. However obviously the wording can be changed to be made more eloquent.

The point is not to create a debating society but to pin-point the global set of individuals who give the correct analysis of the crisis and will work synchronistically to oppose anti-liberty political projects around the world. One of the most important of these is opposing the Lisbon Treaty. Another is opposing all the futile Keynesian attempts at stimulus and lowering of interest rates. Another project we could all co-operate on is a program for phasing out central banking. After all, we all essentially have the same system ..... and a global approach will give any plan more legitimacy.

We can also act together to help specific candidates in National or EU elections. Imagine if every libertarian in the world helped (perhaps via various internet activities) to get a specific candiate elected .... say ..... to the US Senate ..... or indeed the EU Parliament. We could benefit to the maximal level by using comparitive advatage.

rant over.

[eOs]

I couldn't find the other thread and nothing was linked so I'm sure Freedom Force was brought up, but it's a great site: freedom-force.org that focuses on international freedom movement. Now it has a couple good things on there like news sources, books, the creed of freedom, actions like getting the word out and preparation, but the website itself does not help to utilize any of the ideas it gives. The main goal of this project, in my mind, would be to create a place where we can effectively collaborate by planning, designing, and executing different grassroots projects by infusing different elements of the web into one place. We could have a google docs area for people to work on documents or plans of action together etc, possibly a maps area that people can place different events on that are happening in their area, like time, location, description, and if they click on it it will give details about who is attending, a detailed outline of what its about, and the page on the website that is associated with the event and tools for users to utilize to help it further. I mean, we have all these great tools all over the web, we have video conferencing, chatting, forums, maps, document sharing, collaboration tools, etc all over the place, but not in a single spot where we can all come together and work on something. I think that has to be the main goal. As far as a mission statement I like the one on freedom-force : (maybe we can ask grififn if we can use it?)



THE CREED OF FREEDOM

INTRINSIC NATURE OF RIGHTS
I believe that only individuals have rights, not the collective group; that these rights are intrinsic to each individual, not granted by the state; for if the state has the power to grant them, it also has the power to deny them, and that is incompatible with personal liberty.
I believe that a just state derives its power solely from the governed. Therefore, the state must never presume to do anything beyond what individual citizens also have the right to do. Otherwise, the state is a power unto itself and becomes the master instead of the servant of society.

SUPREMACY OF THE INDIVIDUAL
I believe that one of the greatest threats to freedom is to allow any group, no matter its numeric superiority, to deny the rights of the minority; and that one of the primary functions of a just state is to protect each individual from the greed and passion of the majority.

FREEDOM OF CHOICE
I believe that desirable social and economic objectives are better achieved by voluntary action than by coercion of law. I believe that social tranquility and brotherhood are better achieved by tolerance, persuasion, and the power of good example than by coercion of law. I believe that those in need are better served by charity, which is the giving of one's own money, than by welfare, which is the giving of other people's money through coercion of law.

EQUALITY UNDER LAW
I believe that all citizens should be equal under law, regardless of their national origin, race, religion, gender, education, economic status, life style, or political opinion. Likewise, no class should be given preferential treatment, regardless of the merit or popularity of its cause. To favor one class over another is not equality under law.

PROPER ROLE OF THE STATE
I believe that the proper role of the state is negative, not positive; defensive, not aggressive. It is to protect, not to provide; for if the state is granted the power to provide for some, it must also be able to take from others, and that always leads to legalized plunder and loss of freedom. If the state can give us everything we want, it also must be powerful enough to take from us everything we have. Therefore, the proper function of the state is to serve as a protectorate in the defense of the lives, liberty, and property of its citizens, nothing more.

THE THREE COMMANDMENTS OF FREEDOM

The Creed of Freedom is based on five principles. However, in day-to-day application, they can be reduced to just three codes of conduct. These are The Three Commandments of Freedom:

INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS
Only individuals have rights, not groups. Therefore, do not sacrifice the rights of any individual or minority for the alleged rights of groups.

EQUALITY UNDER LAW
To favor one class of citizens over others is not equality under law. Therefore, do not endorse any law that does not apply to all citizens equally.

FREEDOM OF CHOICE
The proper function of the state is to protect, not to provide. Therefore, do not approve coercion for any purpose except to protect human life, liberty, or property.

Also, I am majoring in Integrated Technology so I can help with planning and designing of the site if you need me

Here's a system architecture we are currently designing for a new IBM system

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/madhatterdisease/picm-overarching-diagram.jpg

[nayjevin]

So, in your mind, what would be an ideal home page? Something like a "news" page?

This:

http://www.nayjevin.com/steps/images/philosophyofliberty.swf

Or this:

This site aims to:
"Facilitate education and peaceful action toward smaller state, adherance to rule of law, foreign policy of non-intervention, and freedom for men and markets to act in enlightened self interest."
-- in other words --
This site tries to help you take peaceful action toward freedom for all people.
I hope you're with us!

[Joe3113]

Again, freedom force cannot take this role. G Edward Griffin (who I think is awesome) and his organisation are too intertwined with what many conservatives (even the non-neocon ones) believe are conspiracy thoeries.

G-Ed has openly said 9/11 is an inside job and its openly displayed on his site

http://www.freedom-force.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=911issues&refpage=issues


I'm not saying I dont agree with these sentiments, im just saying you cant be associated with them without alienating alot of people.

The other point if Freedom Force engages in completely different activities to what we are proposing here.

The other org, the ISIL, is too associated with Milton Friedman (monetarist supporter of government fiat) and Ayn Rand (supporter of fiat and war-monger).

Freedom Force and ISIL are inadequate. Something new is required.

[Joe3113]

The main goal of this project, in my mind, would be to create a place where we can effectively collaborate by planning, designing, and executing different grassroots projects by infusing different elements of the web into one place[/B]. We could have a google docs area for people to work on documents or plans of action together etc, possibly a maps area that people can place different events on that are happening in their area, like time, location, description, and if they click on it it will give details about who is attending, a detailed outline of what its about, and the page on the website that is associated with the event and tools for users to utilize to help it further. I mean, we have all these great tools all over the web, we have video conferencing, chatting, forums, maps, document sharing, collaboration tools, etc all over the place, but not in a single spot where we can all come together and work on something. I think that has to be the main goal. As far as a mission statement I like the one on freedom-force : (maybe we can ask grififn if we can use it?)


Excellent thinking. We dont want overlap. We want a streamlined co-operative framework for global action. I don't yet know how to achieve that but we should continue brainstorming.

The problem with using Freedom Force's material is that it excludes Rothbardians, and we dont really want to exclude them because there are many of them who support Ron Paul.

The draft principles I have outlined here http://libertyuniversal.org/ are consistently preached between the entire spectrum from:

(TRUE) CONSERVATIVES => to => ANARCHO-CAPITALIST ROTHBARDIANS


:) This is the spectrum we need to act in sync to SAVE LIBERTY WORLDWIDE.

The restriction on the Austrian analysis is the MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR. Any other analysis keeps the central bank effectively in place.

[nayjevin]

The point is not to create a debating society but to pin-point the global set of individuals who give the correct analysis of the crisis and will work synchronistically to oppose anti-liberty political projects around the world.

I see what you mean - the debate occurs entirely outside the site. I was not totally clear that there was to be no effort (via the site homepage anyway) to 'prosthelatize'. That makes a substantial difference, but the approach should consider that even members of this forum would never agree on a set of words.

Perhaps a mission statement is an outdated idea. I don't know.

My natural tendency is to prefer a site that lays out different things I can support if I choose.

A site that tries to get 100% consensus and then tells everybody the specific actions they have to take to be a part of the movement reminds me of GOP email lists.

Compare that to http://www.Downsize DC.org , which lists all kinds of initiatives, and encourages even those who would support new laws to use their tools.

Now, I don't doubt that this would be a good and useful site with the exact wording that Curlz has proposed - but I have some reservations as to whether choosing such a set of words to try to unify a global initiative is wise.

[Joe3113]

That makes a substantial difference, but the approach should consider that even members of this forum would never agree on a set of words.

Yes we can, as I said in the previous post.

We need the spectrum from true conservative to Rothbardian anarcho-capitalist.


NOBODY ON THIS FORUM IS A MONETARIST. WE ARE ALL AUSTRIAN-SCHOOLERS.

Ron Paul does not tolerate monetarism. He heaps scorn on it.

Hence we can all agree on it.

We can also agree on ANTI-WAR. Nobody on this forum is in favour of the Iraq War.


THE KEY IS

1. Uniting the true conservative => anarcho-capitalist spectrum

2. All should be Austrian Schoolers

3. All should be Anti-War




SIMPLE.

[nayjevin]

As far as a mission statement I like the one on freedom-force : (maybe we can ask grififn if we can use it?)

I like his use of 'I' instead of the collective 'we'

[Truth Warrior]

Yes we can, as I said in the previous post.

We need the spectrum from true conservative to Rothbardian anarcho-capitalist.


NOBODY ON THIS FORUM IS A MONETARIST. WE ARE ALL AUSTRIAN-SCHOOLERS.

Ron Paul does not tolerate monetarism. He heaps scorn on it.

Hence we can all agree on it.

We can also agree on ANTI-WAR. Nobody on this forum is in favour of the Iraq War.


THE KEY IS

1. Uniting the true conservative => anarcho-capitalist spectrum

2. All should be Austrian Schoolers

3. All should be Anti-War




SIMPLE.

For your consideration: ;)



http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/lewrock0305a.gif

"Visit LewRockwell.com, an outstanding and crucially important Web site I visit every day." -- Ron Paul.
"THE REVOLUTION, A MANIFESTO" ( page # 158 ), http://www.lewrockwell.com/ (http://www.lewrockwell.com/) ;)

[nayjevin]

THE KEY IS

1. Uniting the true conservative => anarcho-capitalist spectrum

2. All should be Austrian Schoolers

3. All should be Anti-War
It took me awhile to see where you are coming from. The idea is warming to me!

I suspect you have a billion thoughts in your head, and are sure you can make it work, but it would take hours to try to explain it all.

And yours truly is so skeptical it is difficult to hop on board without grilling you first. Sorry if it's caused you frustration!

[Conza88]

Great post Curlz...

And others.

Now, everyone lets get to action :D

[nayjevin]

but the approach should consider that even members of this forum would never agree on a set of words.I'll modify that - 'might' never agree on a set of words.

[eOs]

Excellent thinking. We dont want overlap. We want a streamlined co-operative framework for global action. I don't yet know how to achieve that but we should continue brainstorming.


Getting people to come together isn't the hard part, being able to plan and design over the internet is.

[Joe3113]

It took me awhile to see where you are coming from. The idea is warming to me!

I suspect you have a billion thoughts in your head, and are sure you can make it work, but it would take hours to try to explain it all.

And yours truly is so skeptical it is difficult to hop on board without grilling you first. Sorry if it's caused you frustration!

I've been planning this thing in my head for a year. Perfecting it.

I dont have a billion thoughts. But I do know the essential features that will be required for success.

I have a disease called Anxiety Syndrome. It makes me obsess about perfection.

So I get frustrated when people disagree. :D

[Truth Warrior]

Great post Curlz...

And others.

Now, everyone lets get to action :D It's much easier to turn an activist into a libertarian, than it is to turn a libertarian into an activist. ;)

:)

[ClayTrainor]

I've been planning this thing in my head for a year. Perfecting it.

I dont have a billion thoughts. But I do know the essential features that will be required for success.

I have a disease called Anxiety Syndrome. It makes me obsess about perfection.

So I get frustrated when people disagree. :D

I think i have the same thing, even though i've never been diagnosed :p

I can be a hot-head when i get involved with project, when things don't go the way i envision.

[nayjevin]

For your consideration: ;)



http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/lewrock0305a.gif

"Visit LewRockwell.com, an outstanding and crucially important Web site I visit every day." -- Ron Paul.
"THE REVOLUTION, A MANIFESTO" ( page # 158 ), http://www.lewrockwell.com/ (http://www.lewrockwell.com/) ;)

I still think it's important to outline how this site would not overlap existing sites such as LewRockwell.com .

If it is largely because you are wanting grassroots action tools in addition to stuff to read and watch, then I still don't understand why you want me to scrap LibertyCollaborative in favor of this - because that's exactly what it is.

Still sounds to me like we're trying to do the same thing in different ways, man.

[Joe3113]

Getting people to come together isn't the hard part, being able to plan and design over the internet is.

We should start by simply having the principles and finding all national organisations that agree with those principles.

Then we should list their logos in an aesthetic manner. This will get everyone aligned.


Then we should work out what specifically we can do to co-operate on an international level.

[eOs]

[QUOTE=nayjevin;2050173]I still think it's important to outline how this site would not overlap existing sites such as LewRockwell.com .

If it is largely because you are wanting grassroots action tools in addition to stuff to read and watch, then I still don't understand why you want me to scrap LibertyCollaborative in favor of this - because that's exactly what it is.

Still sounds to me like we're trying to do the same thing in different ways, man.

Yeah, I didn't even find the original thread because it wasn't linked to this one, but yeah I don't even know what the project was originally intended, I was just throwing ideas out there.

[Truth Warrior]

I still think it's important to outline how this site would not overlap existing sites such as LewRockwell.com .

If it is largely because you are wanting grassroots action tools in addition to stuff to read and watch, then I still don't understand why you want me to scrap LibertyCollaborative in favor of this - because that's exactly what it is.

Still sounds to me like we're trying to do the same thing in different ways, man.

It's much easier to turn an activist into a libertarian, than it is to turn a libertarian into an activist.

[ClayTrainor]

It's much easier to turn an activist into a libertarian, than it is to turn a libertarian into an activist.

If this is true, then we've already lost ;)

I happen to think, plenty of these libertarians will be encouraged to get active, as the government continues to trample on the individual rights, which they claim to support.

If they don't... they don't deserve freedom...

[Joe3113]

I still think it's important to outline how this site would not overlap existing sites such as LewRockwell.com .

If it is largely because you are wanting grassroots action tools in addition to stuff to read and watch, then I still don't understand why you want me to scrap LibertyCollaborative in favor of this - because that's exactly what it is.

Still sounds to me like we're trying to do the same thing in different ways, man.

LewRockwell.com has opinion articles etc and has a US-focus. That is not the point here.

We are not interested in writing articles and posting videos. That would be overlapping functionality and a pointless exercise.

Rather, we are working out how we could co-operate to maximise our efforts globally.

WE SHOULD ACT TO CO-ORDINATE ALREADY EXISTING NATIONAL ORGANISATIONS, SUCH THAT WE ACT SYNERGISTICALLY TO MAXIMAL EFFECT GLOBALLY. :)

I have made suggestions in previous posts about at least some things that might be considered.

[nayjevin]

Getting people to come together isn't the hard part, being able to plan and design over the internet is.

does anyone have a job that uses a knowledgebase? back me up here, please.

I had a tech support job where we would look up on the computer whatever solution the caller needed - and if the documentation wasn't there, we made it ourselves for the company.

very efficient.

[Conza88]

LewRockwell.com has opinion articles etc and has a US-focus. That is not the point here.

We are not interested in writing articles and posting videos. That would be overlapping functionality and a pointless exercise.

Rather, we are working out how we could co-operate to maximise our efforts globally.

WE SHOULD ACT TO CO-ORDINATE ALREADY EXISTING NATIONAL ORGANISATIONS, SUCH THAT WE ACT SYNERGISTICALLY TO MAXIMAL EFFECT GLOBALLY. :)

I have made suggestions in previous posts about at least some things that might be considered.


http://www.mojosonic.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/clap.gif

[Truth Warrior]

If this is true, then we've already lost ;)

I happen to think, plenty of these libertarians will be encouraged to get active, as the government continues to trample on the individual rights, which they claim to support.

If they don't... they don't deserve freedom...

"Of course I'm cheering on Ron Paul because he is exposing the nature of the whole system. He is not running for president. He is running against the presidency as it is currently understood. Ultimately, however, I do not believe that politics offers a way out. What we need is a new consciousness concerning the idea of human liberty." -- Lew Rockwell

"The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim." ~ Gustave Le Bon

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein

"We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive." -- Albert Einstein

[nayjevin]

Yeah, I didn't even find the original thread because it wasn't linked to this one, but yeah I don't even know what the project was originally intended, I was just throwing ideas out there.

...


Now that we are seeing a voice of liberty coming alive in the U.K. I think it might be time for an international liberty caucus.

We have all had globalism pushed down out throats and I believe it is time that we counter with a bit of globalism of our own. Let us organize with our brothers and sisters in liberty from across the globe so that these bastards can see just how many of us there truly are.

Now I am just a pitch man and have no idea how to organize something this massive but I know that a couple of you already think this is a grand idea and that some of you here have experience with building amazing websites, putting together awesome videos and organizing large scale events so between all of us, we can do this!

In my mind, this would have to start with a basic declaration on the basic rights and freedoms of man which would then be agreed to by people around the world who would pledge support. We could see growth by perhaps using the meet-up method where we have a world map with a pin going up for each person around the globe who pledges to support true freedom showing the exact location of freedom movements. When the map is full we hold an international money bomb to send liberty delegations from across the globe to meet in a central area to discuss true liberty, pledge to resist a one world government and organize a plan of action. I would further propose that this caucus be held at the same time and in the same city as a future meeting of the Bilberbergs ( or other related group) and that WE lovers of freedom and sovereignty totally take over that city to both support our voices of liberty and to protest those who want to control us.

So that is it.... brainstorm, put down, support... whatever you have to add than please add it because we are NEVER going to achieve liberty until we, the people, get off of our asses and show the world that we are many, we are strong and we are NOT going to sit silently while they take everything away from us.

[nayjevin]

thanks for the link, truthwarrior!


John Hasnas has done the same thing. He writes that "A wise man once told me that the best way to prove something is possible is to show that it exists." Well? If proof (documentum) is required, LOOK AROUND! There are countless examples of voluntaryism in everyday life and in American history. We know that "a stable, successful society without government can exist" because it "has, and to a large extent, still does" exist. This, in fact, is one of the ongoing purposes of The Voluntaryist and my anthology, I MUST SPEAK OUT: to document the historical instances of non-political cooperation among human beings.

source = http://www.voluntaryist.com/forthcoming/hasnas.php

[nayjevin]

We should start by simply having the principles and finding all national organisations that agree with those principles.

Then we should list their logos in an aesthetic manner. This will get everyone aligned.


Then we should work out what specifically we can do to co-operate on an international level.

I agree with this initiative.

Please tell me how this differs from

http://www.libertyclick.com
http://www.libertysteps.com
http://libertycollaborative.nayjevin.com

other than the fact that I have yet to let others have creative control?

[Truth Warrior]

thanks for the link, truthwarrior!



source = http://www.voluntaryist.com/forthcoming/hasnas.php:cool: You're welcome. ;) Enjoy! :)

[nayjevin]

we all agree more than we disagree - perspective:


The basis of our political system is the right of the people to make and to alter their constitutions of government. George Washington
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. Thomas Jefferson

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. John Adams

Fear is the foundation of most governments. John Adams

Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. John Adams

I always consider the settlement of America with reverence and wonder, as the opening of a grand scene and design in providence, for the illumination of the ignorant and the emancipation of the slavish part of mankind all over the earth. John Adams

Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people. John Adams

There are two educations. One should teach us how to make a living and the other how to live. John Adams

[Truth Warrior]

"Freedom, Peace and Prosperity" -- Ron Paul ( 2008 POTUS campaign slogan ) ;)

Ain't none of that EVER comin' outta D.C.. NO WAY! NO HOW! < IMHO >

[Truth Warrior]

It's very hard to fight an enemy that maintains an outpost in your mind.


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/freeyourmind.jpg

[Deborah K]

[QUOTE]



Yeah, I didn't even find the original thread because it wasn't linked to this one, but yeah I don't even know what the project was originally intended, I was just throwing ideas out there.

I posted it in the second post of this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=185948&page=15

[Deborah K]

The point is not to create a debating society but to pin-point the global set of individuals who give the correct analysis of the crisis and will work synchronistically to oppose anti-liberty political projects around the world. One of the most important of these is opposing the Lisbon Treaty. Another is opposing all the futile Keynesian attempts at stimulus and lowering of interest rates. Another project we could all co-operate on is a program for phasing out central banking. After all, we all essentially have the same system ..... and a global approach will give any plan more legitimacy.

We can also act together to help specific candidates in National or EU elections. Imagine if every libertarian in the world helped (perhaps via various internet activities) to get a specific candiate elected .... say ..... to the US Senate ..... or indeed the EU Parliament. We could benefit to the maximal level by using comparitive advatage.

rant over.

To my way of thinking, none of the above will matter if we don't address the larger issue at hand. The reason I thought this was such a good idea, was because I saw this as a way to create a world wide movement against a one-world government. The issue at hand, as far as I can see, is an orchestrated world wide financial collapse which will ulitmately lead to one government, and one bank controlling all nations. We need to implement a back-up currency plan to avoid this. If we (all nations involved in our project) are functioning econimcally in the midst of this collapse, we will be better able to take control over our local and regional gov'ts and that will put us in a much better postion of stopping this take-over.

For me this is key. This is THE biggest threat to our liberty and sovereignty. I believe our primary focus should be on accomplishing this.

[Deborah K]

Perhaps a mission statement is an outdated idea. I don't know.



We have to have a mission statement. It should provide a concise explanation of our beliefs and our goals. That way visitors can make a decision right away whether or not their beliefs are in line with ours.

[Deborah K]

Yes we can, as I said in the previous post.

We need the spectrum from true conservative to Rothbardian anarcho-capitalist.


NOBODY ON THIS FORUM IS A MONETARIST. WE ARE ALL AUSTRIAN-SCHOOLERS.

Ron Paul does not tolerate monetarism. He heaps scorn on it.

Hence we can all agree on it.

We can also agree on ANTI-WAR. Nobody on this forum is in favour of the Iraq War.


THE KEY IS

1. Uniting the true conservative => anarcho-capitalist spectrum

2. All should be Austrian Schoolers

3. All should be Anti-War




SIMPLE.

Consider that we may be in the business of schooling many who are liberty-minded but not as knowledgeable on economic liberty. I think it might be a mistake to be exclusive i.e. "you can't join unless you think exactly the way we do."

[Deborah K]

For your consideration: ;)



http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/lewrock0305a.gif

"Visit LewRockwell.com, an outstanding and crucially important Web site I visit every day." -- Ron Paul.
"THE REVOLUTION, A MANIFESTO" ( page # 158 ), http://www.lewrockwell.com/ (http://www.lewrockwell.com/) ;)

I personally don't like the idea of coming off ANTI anything. I prefer being PRO something. When I see ANTI anything, it puts me off. But that's just me.

[Deborah K]

Please speak up if anyone is in disagreement over anything here:

Its just a draft ...

http://libertyuniversal.org/

I like this so far.

[ClayTrainor]

Consider that we may be in the business of schooling many who are liberty-minded but not as knowledgeable on economic liberty. I think it might be a mistake to be exclusive i.e. "you can't join unless you think exactly the way we do."

True enough, but we do need to have some firm principles.

I personally think that our organization should be strict about the Austrian Theory of Economics and our adherence to it.

The Austrian school needs to be one of these strict principles, imo. If we have wishy-washy economics principles in order to build our user base, than who knows what perception the world will have on our campaign.

I don't think pandering is a very good option, but i do hear what you're saying and i think it's important that we word our principles very carefully, in order to avoid any confusion.


I personally don't like the idea of coming off ANTI anything. I prefer being PRO something. When I see ANTI anything, it puts me off. But that's just me.

Pro-Liberty, Pro-Free-Market :cool:

[nayjevin]

I personally don't like the idea of coming off ANTI anything. I prefer being PRO something. When I see ANTI anything, it puts me off. But that's just me.

I understand that, that is my inclination as well - but I think the intention is to reflect that state and war are inherently oppressive and coercive, and are to be resisted. The free market is voluntary, and is to be supported.

[Truth Warrior]

I personally don't like the idea of coming off ANTI anything. I prefer being PRO something. When I see ANTI anything, it puts me off. But that's just me.

"Freedom, Peace and Prosperity" -- Ron Paul ( 2008 POTUS campaign slogan ) ;)

Ain't none of that EVER comin' outta D.C.. NO WAY! NO HOW! < IMHO >

Note the "purely coincidental" :rolleyes: close sentiment sequence "match up" with:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/lewrock0305a.gif


< LOL ! > :D

[Deborah K]

True enough, but we do need to have some firm principles.

I personally think that our organization should be strict about the Austrian Theory of Economics and our adherence to it.

The Austrian school needs to be one of these strict principles, imo. If we have wishy-washy economics principles in order to build our user base, than who knows what perception the world will have on our campaign.

I don't think pandering is a very good option, but i do hear what you're saying and i think it's important that we word our principles very carefully, in order to avoid any confusion.



Pro-Liberty, Pro-Free-Market :cool:

I would never suggest being wishy-washy or pandering. We just have to walk a fine line between that and being too strict or controlling about who can join.

[Deborah K]

I understand that, that is my inclination as well - but I think the intention is to reflect that state and war are inherently oppressive and coercive, and are to be resisted. The free market is voluntary, and is to be supported.

Agreed. And I believe there is a way to do without coming off as ANTI. I'm refering to the first impression visitors will get when viewing the site.

[Deborah K]

"Freedom, Peace and Prosperity" -- Ron Paul ( 2008 POTUS campaign slogan ) ;)

Ain't none of that EVER comin' outta D.C.. NO WAY! NO HOW! < IMHO >

Note the "purely coincidental" :rolleyes: close sentiment sequence "match up" with:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/lewrock0305a.gif


< LOL ! > :D



And.......the ANTIs win by a nose..........:D

[Truth Warrior]

And.......the ANTIs win by a nose..........:D

;) :D

[ClayTrainor]

I would never suggest being wishy-washy or pandering. We just have to walk a fine line between that and being too strict or controlling about who can join.

haha, sorry, those were my words :p

I hear you, and agree with you.

For example... if some Kucinich supporters wanted to join...would we deny them? Would they have to accept our economic philosophy?

[torchbearer]

haha, sorry, those were my words :p

I hear you, and agree with you.

For example... if some Kucinich supporters wanted to join...would we deny them? Would they have to accept our economic philosophy?

a policy of non-coercive government would also include economics.

[ClayTrainor]

a policy of non-coercive government would also include economics.

True enough...

So i guess we'd reject those people, even though they may agree with most of our principles...

This really is a tough line to draw, but i think we gotta draw it.

[Deborah K]

To my way of thinking, none of the above will matter if we don't address the larger issue at hand. The reason I thought this was such a good idea, was because I saw this as a way to create a world wide movement against a one-world government. The issue at hand, as far as I can see, is an orchestrated world wide financial collapse which will ulitmately lead to one government, and one bank controlling all nations. We need to implement a back-up currency plan to avoid this. If we (all nations involved in our project) are functioning econimcally in the midst of this collapse, we will be better able to take control over our local and regional gov'ts and that will put us in a much better postion of stopping this take-over.

For me this is key. This is THE biggest threat to our liberty and sovereignty. I believe our primary focus should be on accomplishing this.


Is anyone in agreement with me on this? Or am I the Lone Ranger?

[ClayTrainor]

Is anyone in agreement with me on this? Or am I the Lone Ranger?

No arguments from me... sounds pretty dam good. :cool:

[Truth Warrior]

Is anyone in agreement with me on this? Or am I the Lone Ranger? "What you mean 'We', kimosabe?" -- Tonto

:D

[torchbearer]

"What you mean 'We', kimosabe?" -- Tonto

:D

Tonto.
Quien no sabe.


Translated:

Stupid
Know nothing!

The inside joke was that he called his indian friend "tonto", but didn't realize that he was calling him stupid... but the indian returned the insult by calling him ignorant.. or a 'know-nothing'.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Is anyone in agreement with me on this? Or am I the Lone Ranger?

I am in total agreement.

[eOs]

To my way of thinking, none of the above will matter if we don't address the larger issue at hand. The reason I thought this was such a good idea, was because I saw this as a way to create a world wide movement against a one-world government. The issue at hand, as far as I can see, is an orchestrated world wide financial collapse which will ulitmately lead to one government, and one bank controlling all nations. We need to implement a back-up currency plan to avoid this. If we (all nations involved in our project) are functioning econimcally in the midst of this collapse, we will be better able to take control over our local and regional gov'ts and that will put us in a much better postion of stopping this take-over.

For me this is key. This is THE biggest threat to our liberty and sovereignty. I believe our primary focus should be on accomplishing this.



I think it's a great idea, but what you are proposing is something so vast, that it would be inconceivable. We'd have to set up our own banking system which then, the fed's response would be an immediate missile attack on our homes. It would be the first steps in seceding from our country...The idea of bringing everyone together under a common umbrella is a good idea, but what would be the functionality of it? And for a project like this a mission statement that everyone can agree to is huge, so it would have to be very broad and very pro freedom.

[tonesforjonesbones]

G. Edward Griffin's Freedom Force International is good...you might want to look at his site..he has people from all o;;ver the world involved also. tones

[Joe3113]

...

[Truth Warrior]

Tonto.
Quien no sabe.


Translated:

Stupid
Know nothing!

The inside joke was that he called his indian friend "tonto", but didn't realize that he was calling him stupid... but the indian returned the insult by calling him ignorant.. or a 'know-nothing'. Punchline to an old LR & T surrounded by 10,000 Indians joke. "Looks like we are done for, Tonto." -- Lone Ranger

AKA "What you mean 'We', Paleface?" -- Tonto

[Joe3113]

If you try to comprimise on the Austrian analysis you end up with complete confusion and a pointless exercise. Stopping Socialist Regionalism/Globalism is pointless if you want socialism at the national level.

There can be no comprimise on the following key points:

1. Austrian School analysis of the crisis

2. Anti-War


These are the two critical points and using them we can unite the complete spectrum from:

TRUE CONSERVATIVE ===================> ANARCHO-CAPITALIST


This is the spectrum we need


WE DO NOT NEED KUCINICH SOCIALISTS. THEY WILL CONFUSE THE WHOLE THING.

WE NEED TO CO-ORDINATE NATIONAL ORGANISATIONS THAT ALREADY BELIEVE IN THESE PRINCIPLES. NOT CREATE OVERLAPPING FUNCTIONS.



:)

[torchbearer]

Punchline to an old LR & T surrounded by 10,000 Indians joke. "Looks like we are done for, Tonto." -- Lone Ranger

AKA "What you mean 'We', Paleface?" -- Tonto


love it. :D

[nayjevin]

Agreed. And I believe there is a way to do without coming off as ANTI. I'm refering to the first impression visitors will get when viewing the site.

why, yes, I suppose you're right.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

You know, I have to just take a moment and break from the serious discussion at hand and share a few things with all of you.

When I initially posted this idea in Torchbearer's thread.... I had NO idea that this movement would pick it up and run with the ball like you guys have. All of these ideas coming together like they have is amazing. We have the people with ideas, the people with the technical know how and the people with the marketing prowess to make this all work and once this project becomes really open to the public than I have a feeling we are going to see a gloabl response like never before. We have a real chance to fight back for ourselves, our families and our sovereign nations.

All of you guys make me so proud of this movement and so proud of my personal involvement in this movement. It is people just like you guys who woke me from my slumber and let me know that it was o.k. to speak out. It was people just like you guys who gave me the courage to first speak to my family and then to start speaking to anyone who would listen about our impending crisis and the courage to preach the gospel of liberty.

We are doing something very special here and so far I love where all of the ideas are going. We may have some disagreements about exactly what to do with this project or exactly what to put on the website or even exactly who this should appeal to but Remember, everyone deserves freedom, propsperity and peace and God willing, we will assure these basic inalienable rights for all mankind!

[Joe3113]

G. Edward Griffin's Freedom Force International is good...you might want to look at his site..he has people from all o;;ver the world involved also. tones

I addressed this in a previous post.

Freedom Force is involved in 9/11 theorisms (not that I disagree) and specifically excludes anarcho-capitalists. Their web presence is also old and outdated.

The 9/11 factor is off putting to many and we do not want to exclude Rothbardian anarcho-capitalists who are numerous on this very site.

[Deborah K]

I think it's a great idea, but what you are proposing is something so vast, that it would be inconceivable. We'd have to set up our own banking system which then, the fed's response would be an immediate missile attack on our homes. It would be the first steps in seceding from our country....

No, we wouldn't have to set up our own banking system. I posted these suggestions on the first thread about this org. In it you'll notice two links that I provide on alternative currencies. This could be implemented as a back up should there be a world wide economic collapse. It would allow communities and states to stay in business. This is something worth researching and coming up with a plan that works for everyone. If we all agree that all currencies should be backed by hard-assets then this shouldn't be a huge hurdle at all.


The idea of bringing everyone together under a common umbrella is a good idea, but what would be the functionality of it? And for a project like this a mission statement that everyone can agree to is huge, so it would have to be very broad and very pro freedom

I think the "functionallity" of it is explained. And while I don't think narrowing our scope too much is a good thing, widening it too far would be equally as bad.

Here are those suggestions:


Here are some new suggestions and some I already proposed (just trying to group them up):

A profile of each liberty minded politician in the U.S., E.U., Australia, Canada, and elsewhere. Each profile could include news articles on them, a short bio, pictures and even U-tubes. This could be inspiring for those who visit the site. Once we've collected profiles and we have the site up and running, we ought to invite everyone we did a profile of to visit, join, and possibly be a representative of the ILM (International Liberty Movement). As far as I can tell, there is no other org. with this name.

I posted the world-wide Meetup map, that I lifted from another thread, earlier in this thread. Losts of support for Dr. Paul worldwide. How would I go about finding out how to contact the meetups in other countries? We could start there for membership.

I think we do need to have a membership. We could set up a real-time ticker for people to see the membership grow. This is also helpful for organizing activities and events. We can send out newsletters to the membership and recruit for events. I'm happy to help with the area of writing newsletters and recruiting - as well as organizing any events.

I propose anyone and everyone write a mission statement and then we can merge all the best points into one.

Each participating country could have its own link. And all events that are a work in progress could have their own links.

Another primary focus should be an alternative currency should our own currencies fail. We should post some kind of a strategy that is sort of a 'one size fits all' back up plan that any town, state, or country could fall back on if necessary. Here's an example: http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,2902061.story and this: http://www.localcurrency.org/local_currencies.html

This would be key since the collapse of the world's currencies would put us squarely in the hands of the UN and the BIS and the IMF.

Okay, that's my 2 cents for now.

Found here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2050707#post2050707

[reduen]

love it. :D

Did any of you know that Tonto means stupid? I did not know that until a couple of days ago...

[Deborah K]

You know, I have to just take a moment and break from the serious discussion at hand and share a few things with all of you.

When I initially posted this idea in Torchbearer's thread.... I had NO idea that this movement would pick it up and run with the ball like you guys have. All of these ideas coming together like they have is amazing. We have the people with ideas, the people with the technical know how and the people with the marketing prowess to make this all work and once this project becomes really open to the public than I have a feeling we are going to see a gloabl response like never before. We have a real chance to fight back for ourselves, our families and our sovereign nations.

All of you guys make me so proud of this movement and so proud of my personal involvement in this movement. It is people just like you guys who woke me from my slumber and let me know that it was o.k. to speak out. It was people just like you guys who gave me the courage to first speak to my family and then to start speaking to anyone who would listen about our impending crisis and the courage to preach the gospel of liberty.

We are doing something very special here and so far I love where all of the ideas are going. We may have some disagreements about exactly what to do with this project or exactly what to put on the website or even exactly who this should appeal to but Remember, everyone deserves freedom, propsperity and peace and God willing, we will assure these basic inalienable rights for all mankind!

Hugs!!!!

[torchbearer]

Did any of you know that Tonto means stupid? I did not know that until a couple of days ago...

yeah, i know.. that is why I put up the translations.
Everyone writes Kimosabe, it is actually quien no sabe.
which, when pronounced sounds like Kinnosabe. though, when saying both "n"s together... it sounds more like an "m" or a double "n"

[nayjevin]

If you try to comprimise on the Austrian analysis you end up with complete confusion and a pointless exercise. Stopping Socialist Regionalism/Globalism is pointless if you want socialism at the national level.

There can be no comprimise on the following key points:

1. Austrian School analysis of the crisis

2. Anti-War


These are the two critical points and using them we can unite the complete spectrum from:

TRUE CONSERVATIVE ===================> ANARCHO-CAPITALIST

If it were my decision to make, I could go with this.


This is the spectrum we need


WE DO NOT NEED KUCINICH SOCIALISTS. THEY WILL CONFUSE THE WHOLE THING.

WE NEED TO CO-ORDINATE NATIONAL ORGANISATIONS THAT ALREADY BELIEVE IN THESE PRINCIPLES. NOT CREATE OVERLAPPING FUNCTIONS.
:)I'd say that depends. If there is no place for people to debate on the site, no place to promote an idea in antithesis of these 2 tenets, then it doesn't matter who joins -- only how many people do the 'outlined' / sponsored events or grassroots action the site promotes.

If folks can come in and dilute the message with their comments (potentially) then it might be prudent to be somewhat exclusive.

the question to me would then be,

how to word these two tenets?

1. Austrian School analysis of the crisis

2. Anti-War

but first, how to define 'agreement' on them among those who are working on the project?

should those who will be investing greater resources be given more say? or should ideas be based solely on merit, in the opinion of individuals present?

then, how to vote? shall we set up an electoral college lol

[reduen]

yeah, i know.. that is why I put up the translations.
Everyone writes Kimosabe, it is actually quien no sabe.
which, when pronounced sounds like Kinnosabe. though, when saying both "n"s together... it sounds more like an "m" or a double "n"

;)

So everytime they spoke to each other they were calling each other "stupid" and "he who knows nothing"! lol (According to Cosby that is..)

[Joe3113]

Just had an idea. For those who dont want to actually say "Austrian School" we can simply imply it without saying.


So the two key principles would become:

1. Government-ordained fiat central banking caused the financial crisis

2. Anti-War


This would have the same effect without the superficial specificity alot of people are worried about.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Just had an idea. For those who dont want to actually say "Austrian School" we can simply imply it without saying.


So the two key principles would become:

1. Government-ordained fiat central banking caused the financial crisis

2. Anti-War


This would have the same effect without the superficial specificity alot of people are worried about.

I think #1 sounds better but honestly I would be cautious with a general statement of "anti-war". I believe most of can agree that war in and of itself is not always a bad thing. Sometimes was is a neccesary function but in most cases war could have been prevented. How about we emphasize our demand for no preemptive wars, no wars for the purpose of nation building and no wars waged under the direction of any united global body (i.e. the United Nations)? We should emphasize our belief in diplomacy first.

[ClayTrainor]

Just had an idea. For those who dont want to actually say "Austrian School" we can simply imply it without saying.


So the two key principles would become:

1. Government-ordained fiat central banking caused the financial crisis

2. Anti-War


This would have the same effect without the superficial specificity alot of people are worried about.

Perhaps replace "Anti-War" with the "Just War Theory" ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_War

[StilesBC]

A couple of notes after catching up on the thread:

1) I think it is important to focus on transition toward what we are advocating. In my experience, people are far more willing to listen if you tell them you have a plan to transition from our state-dependent systems of currency (for example) rather than simply advocating the scrapping of the old way and immediate implementation. It sounds stupid, but to most, if you were to say "we advocate a return to sound money," they automatically translate that to "everyone loses what they have and we start all over from scratch."

Better off to talk about repealing legal tender laws to allow for a gradual transition away from central bank issued fiat currency and bank created credit toward a more market-based competitive currency system.

2) We need to keep in mind that while the US has the Constitution and Bill of Rights to immediately turn to for guidance, countries like Canada, Australia and Britain don't. For us, there may have to be more thought put into a) the viability of a continuation of the monarchy (yes, the Queen is still our head of state) and b) the creation of a constitutional republic in its place

3) I had a visual of a homepage with a world map (borders well defined of course ;) ) and portals to each individual country participating

4) If I think of anything else, I'll share.

[Truth Warrior]

"A camel is a horse, built by a committee." :p :rolleyes:

[nayjevin]

great job guys, I'm off to work.

[reduen]

Tonto.
Quien no sabe.


Translated:

Stupid
Know nothing!

The inside joke was that he called his indian friend "tonto", but didn't realize that he was calling him stupid... but the indian returned the insult by calling him ignorant.. or a 'know-nothing'.

Missed your post here Tourch. :o

Yeah, what Tourch siad....

Gotta go get the boys from track now ....

[ClayTrainor]

Good session :cool:

[Deborah K]

A couple of notes after catching up on the thread:

1) I think it is important to focus on transition toward what we are advocating. In my experience, people are far more willing to listen if you tell them you have a plan to transition from our state-dependent systems of currency (for example) rather than simply advocating the scrapping of the old way and immediate implementation. It sounds stupid, but to most, if you were to say "we advocate a return to sound money," they automatically translate that to "everyone loses what they have and we start all over from scratch."

Better off to talk about repealing legal tender laws to allow for a gradual transition away from central bank issued fiat currency and bank created credit toward a more market-based competitive currency system.

2) We need to keep in mind that while the US has the Constitution and Bill of Rights to immediately turn to for guidance, countries like Canada, Australia and Britain don't. For us, there may have to be more thought put into a) the viability of a continuation of the monarchy (yes, the Queen is still our head of state) and b) the creation of a constitutional republic in its place

3) I had a visual of a homepage with a world map (borders well defined of course ;) ) and portals to each individual country participating

4) If I think of anything else, I'll share.

Good ideas. A transition plan is a must.

[Joe3113]

Perhaps replace "Anti-War" with the "Just War Theory" ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_War

yeah thats what i meant

"Against Unjust War"

we dont want to appear pacifist

[Joe3113]

Changed the image a bit to give people a better idea of exactly who we are talking about.

http://libertyuniversal.org/

[Deborah K]

Changed the image a bit to give people a better idea of exactly who we are talking about.

http://libertyuniversal.org/

Nice! Can you move the Draft Principles up a little more so one doesn't have to scroll down so far? And change "word" to "world" here:


For Free Trade - Against Managed Trade

The majority of "free trade" agreements that exist between governments today are not free trade at all. They are managed trade agreements benefiting big corporations and political elites and are designed to facilitate the introduction of socialist regional unions and global governance. Some obvious examples are NAFTA, CAFTA, Word Trade Organisation and GATT. We favour true free trade which involves repealing legislation, not creating thousands of pages of new legislation.

[Joe3113]

Nice! Can you move the Draft Principles up a little more so one doesn't have to scroll down so far? And change "word" to "world" here:


ooops! Sorry bout that. Silly me.

[Deborah K]

I'm still waiting to see some mention of this objective, which general concensus shows is valid:

This [International Liberty Movement] is a way to create a world wide movement against a one-world government. The issue at hand, as far as I can see, is an orchestrated world wide financial collapse which will ulitmately lead to one government, and one bank controlling all nations. We need to implement a back-up currency plan to avoid this. If we (all nations involved in our project) are functioning economically in the midst of this collapse, we will be better able to take control over our local and regional gov'ts and that will put us in a much better postion of stopping the ulitmate take-over of our liberties, sovereignties and our nations.

[Deborah K]

One other comment on the web site, the use of the term 'Civil Liberties' implies man-given rights to many people. As we all know, if man gave them, man can taketh them away. I would be in favor of changing that verbage to something like 'individual liberties'. jmo

[Joe3113]

I'm still waiting to see some mention of this objective, which general concensus shows is valid:

This [International Liberty Movement] is a way to create a world wide movement against a one-world government. The issue at hand, as far as I can see, is an orchestrated world wide financial collapse which will ulitmately lead to one government, and one bank controlling all nations. We need to implement a back-up currency plan to avoid this. If we (all nations involved in our project) are functioning economically in the midst of this collapse, we will be better able to take control over our local and regional gov'ts and that will put us in a much better postion of stopping the ulitmate take-over of our liberties, sovereignties and our nations.

Agree 100% but you if you go saying the collapse is orchstrated (which I agree - it is) you stray into conspiracy terrortory and alienate alot of people who cant yet see these things.

The move for one world government is now so obvious that we can easily put that in. Ron Paul says it openly. However he doesnt say the collapse was orchestrated. I think using Ron as a guide is a good idea.

How should I incorporate it?

[Joe3113]

One other comment on the web site, the use of the term 'Civil Liberties' implies man-given rights to many people. As we all know, if man gave them, man can taketh them away. I would be in favor of changing that verbage to something like 'individual liberties'. jmo

Ron uses it and I dont think he would use it if it implied that.

I think its merely describing a subset of our overall liberty.

We need it to highlight that we are not Neocons who will talk about "free-market" and then lock you up without charge and without a lawyer. So using the term is a way to highlight the point that we are not neocons.

[Deborah K]

Agree 100% but you if you go saying the collapse is orchstrated (which I agree - it is) you stray into conspiracy terrortory and alienate alot of people who cant yet see these things.

The move for one world government is now so obvious that we can easily put that in. Ron Paul says it openly. However he doesnt say the collapse was orchestrated. I think using Ron as a guide is a good idea.

How should I incorporate it?

I'm okay with using the concepts I'm relaying, not necessarily the verbage. However, I think it would be fairly easy to substantiate the claim that this is orchestrated. It's even been suggested by Congressmen during hearings, if i remember correctly, and even Ron Paul has suggested it, I believe. I'll check it out. In any event, we don't have to say it out loud, we can imply it with clips, articles, etc. on the site.

[Xenophage]

I'm okay with using the concepts I'm relaying, not necessarily the verbage. However, I think it would be fairly easy to substantiate the claim that this is orchestrated. It's even been suggested by Congressmen during hearings, if i remember correctly, and even Ron Paul has suggested it, I believe. I'll check it out. In any event, we don't have to say it out loud, we can imply it with clips, articles, etc. on the site.

Its orchestrated by a mass conspiracy... of utter incompetence, philosophical altruism, and idiocy. There's no secret cabal with a Pinky and the Brain diabolical plan. There's just lots and lots of assholes, doing what they do best: being assholes.

[Deborah K]

How should I incorporate it?

Can we put it under a list of goals? And maybe it could be put in the final draft of the mission statement?

[Deborah K]

Its orchestrated by a mass conspiracy... of utter incompetence, philosophical altruism, and idiocy. There's no secret cabal with a Pinky and the Brain diabolical plan. There's just lots and lots of assholes, doing what they do best: being assholes.

In middle management maybe, like governments. But at the top, no way. They know what they are doing and have been at it for generations.

[Joe3113]

Can we put it under a list of goals? And maybe it could be put in the final draft of the mission statement?

I think, to make this easier, we'll do it in a google doc like someone earlier suggested.

Otherwise it gets too annoying and confusing.

[Deborah K]

I think, to make this easier, we'll do it in a google doc like someone earlier suggested.

Otherwise it gets too annoying and confusing.

Works for me.

[Deborah K]

Its orchestrated by a mass conspiracy... of utter incompetence, philosophical altruism, and idiocy. There's no secret cabal with a Pinky and the Brain diabolical plan. There's just lots and lots of assholes, doing what they do best: being assholes.


On February 17, 1950, James Paul Warburg confidently declared to the United States Senate: “We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent.”[1] James Paul Warburg (1896-1969) was the son of Paul Moritz Warburg, nephew of Felix Warburg and of Jacob Schiff, both of Kuhn, Loeb & Company which financed the Russian Revolution through James’ brother Max, banker to the government of Germany.[2] A world government is a world without borders, national sovereignty, constitutions, privacy, autonomy, individual liberties, religious freedoms, private property, the right to bear arms, the rights of marriage and family and a dramatic population reduction (two thirds). A world government establishes a slave/master environment wherein the state controls everything

This isn't happening by accident. Or because of bumbling fools in government. This is contrived.

[Joe3113]

Works for me.

Whats your gmail (Private Message Me)? I'll invite you

I just made a doc and pasted what is already on the site.

[Xenophage]

This isn't happening by accident. Or because of bumbling fools in government. This is contrived.

Ok, first of all...

The definition of "world government" is a bit ridiculous. Who's to say a world government can't have a constitution and a bill of rights?

Secondly, the idea that we WILL have world government is a pretty old one. Its like saying "We WILL have intergalactic travel, some day." This is viewed as progress - a natural state in the evolution of mankind.

Honestly, I don't even care! If humans exist on a hundred different planets, why can't Earth have a world government? That's how far off in the future I see this.

I do think government gets worse the less local it is - but any government, to me, has to respect individual rights and allow capitalism to flourish. A world without imaginary borders and massive inter-national wars would be much preferable as long as it didn't come at the expense of freedom. Nationalism is a psychological disease.

[Deborah K]

Ok, first of all...

The definition of "world government" is a bit ridiculous. Who's to say a world government can't have a constitution and a bill of rights?

Secondly, the idea that we WILL have world government is a pretty old one. Its like saying "We WILL have intergalactic travel, some day." This is viewed as progress - a natural state in the evolution of mankind.

Honestly, I don't even care! If humans exist on a hundred different planets, why can't Earth have a world government? That's how far off in the future I see this.

I do think government gets worse the less local it is - but any government, to me, has to respect individual rights and allow capitalism to flourish. A world without imaginary borders and massive inter-national wars would be much preferable as long as it didn't come at the expense of freedom. Nationalism is a psychological disease.

I took the liberty of moving this topic to a new thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=186577

I'll respond there, if you care to read it.

[Joe3113]

Ok, first of all...

The definition of "world government" is a bit ridiculous. Who's to say a world government can't have a constitution and a bill of rights?

Secondly, the idea that we WILL have world government is a pretty old one. Its like saying "We WILL have intergalactic travel, some day." This is viewed as progress - a natural state in the evolution of mankind.

Honestly, I don't even care! If humans exist on a hundred different planets, why can't Earth have a world government? That's how far off in the future I see this.

I do think government gets worse the less local it is - but any government, to me, has to respect individual rights and allow capitalism to flourish. A world without imaginary borders and massive inter-national wars would be much preferable as long as it didn't come at the expense of freedom. Nationalism is a psychological disease.


The existence of nation states acts as a protection for liberty (even when those national governments are unfortuently socialist leaning). If you have a one world government and that government becomes socialist, then you are completely stuck. The Nation state keeps our western traditions alive and keeps our government close enough to abolish.

In the western world we have a tradition of liberty (albeit fragile). You cant allow third world immigrants to come in and destroy that by voting for socialism.

In India they are all socialists and they have feces flowing down the rivers and huge poverty. And yet they all remain socialists.

You cant allow western countries to end up as third world cesspits of filth.

[jdrochon]

Ok, first of all...

The definition of "world government" is a bit ridiculous. Who's to say a world government can't have a constitution and a bill of rights?

Secondly, the idea that we WILL have world government is a pretty old one. Its like saying "We WILL have intergalactic travel, some day." This is viewed as progress - a natural state in the evolution of mankind.

Honestly, I don't even care! If humans exist on a hundred different planets, why can't Earth have a world government? That's how far off in the future I see this.

I do think government gets worse the less local it is - but any government, to me, has to respect individual rights and allow capitalism to flourish. A world without imaginary borders and massive inter-national wars would be much preferable as long as it didn't come at the expense of freedom. Nationalism is a psychological disease.

What about individualism? Is individualism a psychological disease? Is there anything wrong with wanting to be free to do what you want? Nationalism is individualism from a national perspective. The individual nation being free and doing what we want. The problem is since so many people have so many different opinions on beliefs, government and ideologies, it is comforting to be amongst people that have similar beliefs and ideologies as you. We do things different here in the US and we like the way we do it. As long as our way of life is harming no one else we should be left alone. That goes with every nation. A one world government will try to meet 6 billion needs with generic methods. Every corner of the earth has its own needs, and ideologies and should be taken care of locally by locals who understand the needs of their people and relate to their way of life.

[Conza88]

Ok, first of all...

The definition of "world government" is a bit ridiculous. Who's to say a world government can't have a constitution and a bill of rights?

Secondly, the idea that we WILL have world government is a pretty old one. Its like saying "We WILL have intergalactic travel, some day." This is viewed as progress - a natural state in the evolution of mankind.

Honestly, I don't even care! If humans exist on a hundred different planets, why can't Earth have a world government? That's how far off in the future I see this.

I do think government gets worse the less local it is - but any government, to me, has to respect individual rights and allow capitalism to flourish. A world without imaginary borders and massive inter-national wars would be much preferable as long as it didn't come at the expense of freedom. Nationalism is a psychological disease.

See, all your points are irrelevant, because it's not happening like that.

World Government with a bill of rights? Wow, you mean like a United States with a bill of rights? Are you demented? :eek:

There is a move towards world government right now. They will get it, if we don't stand up.

You don't care?




Two immediate protests come to mind for me:

1. It would mean far less (more horrible) representation for people all across the globe. And I suspect far less accountability and a greater potential for corruption. These are self-evident truths that surely anyone can realize right? It seems so f**king obvious to me, rolling the dice hoping for a benevolent rulership is just going to be an epic failure.

2. Those pushing the hardest for a one world government also happen to be the most corrupt amongst us.

And it is coming at the expense of freedom. Still don't care? :confused:




Ron Paul Speech - One World Government (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qsJjTaekA8&eu#t=3m00s)


"The only question to be answered with right now is; what is it going to be replaced with?

Believe me they are working very hard to devise a new system. They are talking about an international fiat currency paper system, with the loss of US national sovereignty.

"We have to stop this move towards one world government and one world currency."

Ron Paul on Barack Obama and New World Order (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCHXLvlTTng)


"McCain was obviously the back up candidate if Obama didn't win"

"They've been positioning Obama for a long, long time"

"You know the plans are laid for him to take care of the corporate elite"

Below - it is from the some of the elite's own words, all sourced below... :)

Future is Calling - G. Edward Griffin (http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_63/2318000/2318082/2/print/2318082.pdf)

Ron Paul: Bad Foreign Policy Started with Woodrow Wilson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UydCZJeQPPQ)


"Ron Paul can you speak about the NWO's plan for a one world government? Will they succeed?"

Ron Paul:- "They'll succeed if we don't do anything about it."

[nayjevin]

3) I had a visual of a homepage with a world map (borders well defined of course ;) ) and portals to each individual country participating


with a little hand icon -- spin the globe!

[nayjevin]

John Stossel on graphic design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RqdZCo6vkI

[Deborah K]

Okay there's 132 posts on this thread and so far I'm the only one with a mission statement proposal. What gives?

[Conza88]

Okay there's 132 posts on this thread and so far I'm the only one with a mission statement proposal. What gives?

It's awesome? lol

[Deborah K]

It's awesome? lol

uhhh.....right.......seriously....why isn't anyone else critiqueing mine and/or writing their own? Has this movement lost steam?

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I don't think so Deborah. I am working on my own mission statement but I am putting a lot of thought into it. I have had a lot of work due lately and I don't want to rush out what I think a statement should look like, I want to put my heart and soul into it.

[Deborah K]

I don't think so Deborah. I am working on my own mission statement but I am putting a lot of thought into it. I have had a lot of work due lately and I don't want to rush out what I think a statement should look like, I want to put my heart and soul into it.

Good to hear. Btw, Curlz made the web site into a working document.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

This is not exact but this video sums up the basic concept I know I had in mind... How about you guys???

[Deborah K]

This is not exact but this video sums up the basic concept I know I had in mind... How about you guys???

What video?

[StilesBC]

bump

[Theocrat]

Okay there's 132 posts on this thread and so far I'm the only one with a mission statement proposal. What gives?

I was actually going to post my mission statements, but I don't think anyone here will be comfortable with them or agree with them.

[ClayTrainor]

I was actually going to post my mission statements, but I don't think anyone here will be comfortable with them or agree with them.

Well, this has nothing to do with any sort of religious agenda, if that's what you have in mind :)


Feel free to post your ideas though. The more input we have the better. :cool:

[Deborah K]

I was actually going to post my mission statements, but I don't think anyone here will be comfortable with them or agree with them.

Post them anyway. I think the intention is to merge all the best ideas into one statement.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Let's keep this idea alive...

Is it possible to allow for one general mission statement and then let the liberty movements of each individual country formulate their own specific mission statement and showcase that on their own part of the website?

For example, our mission statement in the United States would probably be quite different than one from a liberty movement in Ireland. We should all be able to agree on a few basic things (dismantle the U.N., dissolve N.A.T.O., no fiat currency. free trade with all, etc etc) and those can go into the main mission statement but I imagine we would want to expand ours by mentioning income tax,etc and they would want to expand theirs by making specific mention of the Lisbon Treaty.

I am running a fever and feel like crap today so I hope I am making sense.

[Deborah K]

Let's keep this idea alive...

Is it possible to allow for one general mission statement and then let the liberty movements of each individual country formulate their own specific mission statement and showcase that on their own part of the website?

For example, our mission statement in the United States would probably be quite different than one from a liberty movement in Ireland. We should all be able to agree on a few basic things (dismantle the U.N., dissolve N.A.T.O., no fiat currency. free trade with all, etc etc) and those can go into the main mission statement but I imagine we would want to expand ours by mentioning income tax,etc and they would want to expand theirs by making specific mention of the Lisbon Treaty.

I am running a fever and feel like crap today so I hope I am making sense.

I don't feel well either. I hope you get better soon, jdmyprez_deo_vindice. Curlz is working on a new look for the home page. I just wish more people would put in their 2 cents on this, with regard to the mission statement. Since we plan to give each country its own page, I don't see why they can't have their own mission statement. I like the idea.

[Joe3113]

The point is to make people aware of the happenings elswhere in the world and do what they can to help globally and act in synchronicity.

You don't want to have seperate goals for each country. That is what national organisations (like CFL) are for. It's completely pointless.

The point is global integration and co-ordination.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

The point is to make people aware of the happenings elswhere in the world and do what they can to help globally and act in synchronicity.

You don't want to have seperate goals for each country. That is what national organisations (like CFL) are for. It's completely pointless.

The point is global integration and co-ordination.

I would disagree somewhat on the point of this venture. Certainly we want co-ordination between the various liberty movement in the various nations but these various groups also need to be able to state their individual grievances and appeal to people in their homelands to get involved. If we ignore that than we run a real risk of seeming one world'ish ourselves. I would like to see the various movements come together when it counts and to show how many people around the world share common beliefs and concepts about liberty and prosperity and one of those main concepts should be an OPPOSITION to globalism. The only way to illustrate global cooperation while still staying sovereign is to allow each nation to illustrate their own points of view and present their own talking points. If we fail to do this than honestly I believe the project is doomed and that we will fall apart. We DO need to work together but we can never do that unless we realize and understand that EACH nation and movement is going to have a long list of different goals.

[IPSecure]

"Peace On Earth"

[Joe3113]

these various groups also need to be able to state their individual grievances and appeal to people in their homelands to get involved.

You've got Campaign for Liberty for that. There cannot be overlap.




If we ignore that than we run a real risk of seeming one world'ish ourselves.


One of the plancks will be "Free Trade between SOVEREIGN Nation States"




one of those main concepts should be an OPPOSITION to globalism.


Yeah. Thats the point. Opposing the G20 global governance agenda and opposing regionalism (Lisbon Treaty/EU, North American Union, Asia-Pacific Union).




... and movement is going to have a long list of different goals.


You already have Campaign for Liberty. The point here is getting people to help each other globally AND to co-operate on opposing large and common threats like the G20, G8, WTO, GATT, NAU, EU, APU etc etc.

[MsDoodahs]

The point of this is not to be open, the point is the bring people who already have this view together to co-operate. We know the exact truth.

Ron Paul does not tolerate any alternative to the Austrian School or indeed any alternative to any of my other draft principles.

Liberty is not something that is largely subjective and open to debate. As Ron Paul constantly says, Liberty IS the Austrian School and nothing else. There is no debate needed. We cannot have monetarists who reject truth and Mises.

With Ron as the guide, verything I have written is absolutely mandatory and cannot be changed in substance. However obviously the wording can be changed to be made more eloquent.

The point is not to create a debating society but to pin-point the global set of individuals who give the correct analysis of the crisis and will work synchronistically to oppose anti-liberty political projects around the world. One of the most important of these is opposing the Lisbon Treaty. Another is opposing all the futile Keynesian attempts at stimulus and lowering of interest rates. Another project we could all co-operate on is a program for phasing out central banking. After all, we all essentially have the same system ..... and a global approach will give any plan more legitimacy.

We can also act together to help specific candidates in National or EU elections. Imagine if every libertarian in the world helped (perhaps via various internet activities) to get a specific candiate elected .... say ..... to the US Senate ..... or indeed the EU Parliament. We could benefit to the maximal level by using comparitive advatage.

rant over.

Oh this is soooooooooooooooooo good.

:):)

[LibertyEagle]

bump