I'm a Romney Supporter and I Have a Message for All of You

[Dan Chisholm]

Hello everyone,

I have been coming to this site on and off with different login names for a couple years now. I am a huge political junkie and I try to stay informed about what all of the potential candidate's supporters are doing. That said, I am an avid Romney supporter and certainly one of the most influential Romney grassroots supporters.

I have a couple of messages for all of you in regards to a few things.

1. In regards to the NPR March Madness poll, I want to congratulate all of you on winning the battle in such a convincing manner. We knew we couldn't beat all of you in a wide-open war, so we lulled you to sleep and gambled as to when the poll would end. If it had ended at midnight on the 29th, we would've won, but alas our gamble didn't pay off and you all took the day. We do have more support than you give us credit for, and though my various accounts on Facebook, I was able to send out thousands of messages about the poll.

2. As far as who started the cheating, my fellow Romney supporters and I were convinced that ya'll started the botting first, and I guess we'll never know, but there was a time during the early part of the poll where Romney had been winning legitimately and then Ron Paul shot up very fast. Speaking for myself, I never even knew how to spam polls (but I was always curious), and I came on this forum to see if I could somehow learn how it is done. I found a few posts telling different ways to do it and I couldn't help but try to see if it really worked since I had been wondering for years. I admit I got a bit carried away with it, and I apologize for that.

3. There are no hard feelings about the poll itself since both sides thought they were retaliating to cheating and ultimately, you all won. Also, we admire your grassroots machine and we wish we had even half of the organization as you. I tried to put together a mass fundraising day last year and was able to raise a grand total of just over $100,000 but that is dwarfed in comparison to your huge money bombs. My major problem is that I don't know how to harvest E-Mails and I'm not very good at making websites or YouTube videos.

4. There are a few common attacks that Ron Paulites make about Mitt Romney that I want to address. First, as one of the largest Mitt Romney grassroots supporters on the net, I don't like it when people claim that I or any of my fellow supporters are being paid to support Mitt. I definitely don't get a dime for any of the countless hours of work I do for Mitt. Next, I was at CPAC this year and there was nothing shady whatsoever with the straw poll. There were no "buses of mormons" coming from Utah for the vote or anything else like that. Also, Mitt's speech was the mist highly attended and it was very apparent he had the most support of anyone on the ballot there (I went to Ron Paul's campaign for liberty event as well). Also, during one of the debates, a lot was made about Romney having an earpiece and getting answers to questions that way. That could not be true because if a microphone was able to pick up the audio coming from an earpiece, Mitt Romney's eardrum would have exploded so it was have come from one of the moderators or candidates on stage. Finally, I am not Mormon or a neo-con. Most supporters of Mitt that I know are neither. We don't view Mitt as anything near to McCain when it comes to wanting to fight wars. I don't believe Mitt would've sent us to war with Iraq if he had been president instead of Bush, but I obviously have no proof for that.

5. I also like a lot of Ron Paul's ideas, but when I was looking for a candidate during the spring of 2007, I heard Ron Paul say he didn't plan on winning and wasn't really even trying to. I also could see from the type of campaign Huckabee was running that he wasn't putting together the appropriate groundwork to signify how serious he was. Therefore, I liked having them in the debates, but I couldn't throw my support behind them because I view there as being a huge difference between a candidate like Mitt Romney and a Obama. I know a lot of you do not agree, but if Mitt can do for the entire country what he did in Mass. we will all be in such better shape than we are. Graduating valedictorian of his class at Harvard is insane, and the amount of money he was able to make by creating his own company at Bain is astounding. Mitt wasn't able to do that because of his daddy or anything either. Mitt is a self-made man to be sure which is another ridiculous charge made against Mitt.

6. Finally, I hope you all can agree that this last poll was the most interesting and competitive online poll you've been in. I hope that you all had as much fun as we did, and I am completely earnest and sincere when I say that there are many issues that our two camps can agree on and I would be honored to fight along side with you in the many battles we will fight together in the future.

P.S. if you are wondering what some of those battles are, I support many of the candidates like Rand Paul and Peter Schiff that I know you all support in 2010. I also would love to see Ron Paul as governor of Texas. Anyway, please feel free at anytime to let me know how my fellow Mittheads and I can assist you all. We are in some very dark days right now, but if we focus on where we agree, together, we can make America's future brighter.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1260660082 is my facebook account and probably the easiest way to contact me.

[He Who Pawns]

As a Romney supporter, we knew that would only respect "strength" not words, so this praise from you for our great victory comes as no surprise.

Romney made a habit of mocking Dr Paul during the debates, which he needs to apologize for.

Also, Mitt might actually get more respect from us if he decided to follow the Constitution and call for the end of the federal war on drugs, as well as renouncing global warmongering. Get back to us when he changes his views to reflect the US Constitution and to respect the wishes of the Founding Fathers.

Thanks.

[RCA]

Why does Mitt support the Inflation Tax?

[LibertyEagle]

That was a respectful and nice message, Dan.

I agree with you that some of the supporters probably agree on a lot. But, to be honest with you, I don't think Mitt holds the principles that you seem to believe he does.

[gls]

but if Mitt can do for the entire country what he did in Mass. we will all be in such better shape than we are


What did Mitt do for Mass? Institute a mandatory health-insurance scheme? Put in place additional, unavoidable government "fees" and close tax "loopholes"? He certainly didn't cut state spending; in fact he raised it by over $5 billion annually. Romney might not be as "bad" as Obama but he's in the same league.

[acptulsa]

Thank you for your kind words, Mr. Chisolm. Yes, we will never know who fired the first bot, so to speak. Good contest.

Many will disagree with some of your statements, of course. I don't think their health care system or the Big Dig much encourage us to want the nation as a whole to look like Massachusetts, for example. And while Mitt has undoubtedly worked hard and been anything but a spoiled layabout, I doubt that he could have gotten quite as far as he has without the springboard his father gave him in a society which is increasingly developing economic strata. But, again, I can no more prove that than you can prove your war theory. I am pleased we disagree respectfully, and I hope everyone who responds to this thread will remain in respectful mode. If they do not, I apologize.

We would love to work with y'all to end the current abuses, or at least I would. Thanks again for dropping by!

[He Who Pawns]

BTW, why isn't Mitt doing something useful with his time now? Doesn't GM need a new CEO...?

[Johnnybags]

What did Mitt do for Mass? Institute a mandatory health-insurance scheme? Raise unavoidable government "fees" and close tax "loopholes"? He certainly didn't cut state spending; in fact he raised it by over 5 billion annually. Romney might not be as "bad" as Obama but he's in the same league.

10 and 20 dollar tickets that still have not paid off. Free loans to the government til evey last ticket is sold, its been years.

[Dan Chisholm]

As a Romney supporter, we knew that would only respect "strength" not words, so this praise from you for our great victory comes as no surprise.

Romney made a habit of mocking Dr Paul during the debates, which he needs to apologize for.

Also, Mitt might actually get more respect from us if he decided to follow the Constitution and call for the end of the federal war on drugs, as well as renouncing global warmongering. Get back to us when he changes his views to reflect the US Constitution and to respect the wishes of the Founding Fathers.

Thanks.

1. Mitt never said he likes mandates. I think you are getting confused with "I like vetoes". The mandates in his health care package were the result of the democratically controlled congress in his state and not part of his plan.

2. I believe that Mitt is closer to Ron Paul on some things that you all realize, but he doesn't focus on them because they are not politically smart moves to make (yet), but that is why I hope Ron Paul's ideas continue to gain momentum so politics can be more about ideas than attacks.

3. I agree Mitt shouldn't have laughed at Ron Paul at one of the debates because I actually agreed with Ron Paul on that and was surprised to see Mitt laugh like that. However, after thinking about it, I realized that Mitt does so much work to prepare for the debates, that I think the laughter was his way of reacting to a question he hadn't prepared for. I think it was more of a nervous reaction/unconscious stall tactic than an attempt to belittle Ron Paul. In fact, here in Michigan, when questioned off-the-air by a Ron Paul supporter at an event I was at, Mitt expressed a lot of fondness for Ron Paul as someone who has no ulterior motives and just wants his ideas heard.

[acptulsa]

BTW, why isn't Mitt doing something useful with his time now? Doesn't GM need a new CEO...?

Just because his father ran AMC doesn't mean he knows anything about cars...

People, we didn't want Dr. Paul held responsible for some of our excesses in the past, and we shouldn't hold Mr. Romney's supporters responsible for some of his excesses...

Can we be as respectful as Mr. Chisolm is to us?

[He Who Pawns]

I agree Mitt shouldn't have laughed at Ron Paul at one of the debates because I actually agreed with Ron Paul on that and was surprised to see Mitt laugh like that. However, after thinking about it, I realized that Mitt does so much work to prepare for the debates, that I think the laughter was his way of reacting to a question he hadn't prepared for. I think it was more of a nervous reaction/unconscious stall tactic than an attempt to belittle Ron Paul. In fact, here in Michigan, when questioned off-the-air by a Ron Paul supporter at an event I was at, Mitt expressed a lot of fondness for Ron Paul as someone who has no ulterior motives and just wants his ideas heard.

I can guarantee you one thing: if Mitt apologized to Dr Paul, it would go a long way. Also, he should sit down with Dr Paul for lunch to talk economics and the Constitution. Why don't you suggest those things to him?

[Jeremy]

The only thing I'll say is that Mitt wasn't as bad as Rudy. :D

[Young Paleocon]

Dan no hard feelings. Romney has serious credibility issues though...I mean come on Romney care in Mass., doesn't know whether he's pro-life or pro-choice, and consulting lawyers about going to war. I mean the man just smells of opportunistic politician who couldn't give a damn about principles.

[He Who Pawns]

Just because his father ran AMC doesn't mean he knows anything about cars...


What are you talking about? Romney is an expert on turning around failing companies. It's how he got rich. I am quite serious about the GM thing. That was a compliment to Romney, not a swipe. God knows he would be better than whomever Obama is going to try to put into that CEO role.

[sparebulb]

I was constantly amused with the press and Mitt claiming that he was experienced in the auto industry. Mitt's daddy was the head of American Motors. I don't think that qualifies as legitimate experience.

[Truth Warrior]

And in REALITY, the poll MEANS exactly WHAT? :rolleyes:


:p

[Cowlesy]

BTW, why isn't Mitt doing something useful with his time now? Doesn't GM need a new CEO...?


As a Romney supporter, we knew that would only respect "strength" not words, so this praise from you for our great victory comes as no surprise.

Romney made a habit of mocking Dr Paul during the debates, which he needs to apologize for.

Also, Mitt might actually get more respect from us if he decided to follow the Constitution and call for the end of the federal war on drugs, as well as renouncing global warmongering. Get back to us when he changes his views to reflect the US Constitution and to respect the wishes of the Founding Fathers.

Thanks.

Can you lighten up on the antagonism a bit? Good grief.

Dan --- Dialogue is always a good thing, and I'm happy to see others opinions on the boards. We are certainly far apart on how our candidates interpret the constitution it appears, but that is a gap I feel we can close.

RP folks are very principles-based, as I am sure many Romney supporters are, so we're a tough group to budge in any direction that is anti-freedom or pro-big government.

Welcome to the board.

[Cowlesy]

And in REALITY, the poll MEANS exactly WHAT? :rolleyes:


:p

Thank you!

[ClayTrainor]

And in REALITY, the poll MEANS exactly WHAT? :rolleyes:


:p

It means at least as much as sitting around on a forum, attempting to explain how the world works to people ;)

To the op:

This Mitt radio interview always frustrated me. He was rather insulting to Ron Paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAFfLy05_Y

[AdamT]

The thought of having to listen to another year of 2011-12 debates with Romney on stage spewing "jihadism" buzzwords and pandering is enough to make me sick. Romney do us a favor and don't do it.

[tnvoter]

As a Romney supported, ask him why he would deny cancer patients the right to medical marijuana. Thanks

[Danke]

Thanks for steping up and posting Dan. BTW, what were your other login names?

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Welcome to the forums! I know I am glad to have you here and I do hope that you stick around and contribute to our big dysfunctional family.

I believe a lot of the hostility you may see here is a result of a lot of our folks being shut out of the GOP. They treated us a the political equivalent of the bubonic plague and there are still a lot of hard feelings about that. I hope that you will spread the message that we are not a bunch of raving lunatics and that we deserve (and demand) to be heard by the party that has shunned us.

[Johnnybags]

The thought of having to listen to another year of 2011-12 debates with Romney on stage spewing "jihadism" buzzwords and pandering is enough to make me sick. Romney do us a favor and don't do it.

He will be in Iowa in a year starting the wheels in motion. And much to our dismay he will be in it again at the end. He is the country club Republican of choice. I would however respect him if he would stop playing debate freeze out of all Republican voices but for the same tired actors. The Reagan debate with him and McCain jabbing at eachother like babies while Huck and Ron were twiddling their thumbs showed me what a setup the whole game is.

[specsaregood]

For all this business knowledge Romney supposedly has and is often cited as one of his major strengths. There was only one candidate last primary season that kept on warning about the dire straights our economy was entering. His name was not Mitt Romney. In fact, I believe during the Michigan debate, he claimed it was a one-state recession....yeah, way to see the writing on the wall...

If Mitt had the reverance for the Constitution and strength of principles to actually stand up and protect it -- as many mormons do -- he probably would have gotten my support. But, that is not the case. This is what he stands for:



Q: If you were president, would you need to go to Congress to get authorization to take military action against Iran’s nuclear facilities?
A: You sit down with your attorneys and tell you what you have to do, but obviously, the president has to do what’s in the best interest of the US to protect us against a potential threat. The president did that as he was planning on moving into Iraq and received the authorization of Congress.

Q: Did he need it?

A: You know, we’re going to let the lawyers sort out what he needed to do and what he didn’t need to do, but certainly what you want to do is to have the agreement of all the people in leadership of our government, as well as our friends around the world. But the key thing here is to make sure that we don’t have to use military action against Iran. And that’s why we’re going to have to put a lot tougher sanctions on Iran, economic sanctions, credit sanctions, and treating Ahmadinejad like the rogue and the buffoon that he is.


No offense to Romney supporters; but the president's lawyers shouldn't be telling him what he can and can't do, that is for congress and the constitution to decide.

Compare the above quote to Ron Paul's answer:


Q: If you were president, would you need to go to Congress to get authorization to take military action against Iran's nuclear facilities?

PAUL: Absolutely. This idea of going & talking to attorneys totally baffles me. Why don't we just open up the Constitution & read it? You're not allowed to go to war without a declaration of war. Now, as far as fleeting enemies go, yes, if there's an imminent attack on us, we'd never had that happen in 220 years. The thought that the Iranians could pose an imminent attack on the US is preposterous. There's no way.


That is why I can't take Mitt seriously.....

[ItsTime]

Romney said he likes mandates in a debate. Wish I could find a youtube!

[Epic]

Romney supports all the financial bailouts and wants the government to spend even more money on health care. I think that ends most peoples' interest in him. As for what type of politician he is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7y1HMZNJy0.

And when people say, oh he's good at economics, I laugh. He's never mentioned the Federal Reserve. And he won't touch the drug war, which is a huge economic waste. And he wants big defense spending and wars, which is a huge economic waste.

[Truth Warrior]

It means at least as much as sitting around on a forum, attempting to explain how the world works to people ;)

Ahh, NOTHING, just as I've pretty much suspected all along. ;) :p

[specsaregood]

This Mitt radio interview always frustrated me. He was rather insulting to Ron Paul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAFfLy05_Y

Wow, I had forgotten about that one. Yeah, screw Mitt, the Radio show host had it right!

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Romney was for bailouts, for the war, shilled for the war in the debates, mocked Paul in the debates, for socialized health care, for banning certain guns in Massachusetts, for the PATRIOT act, for domestic spying, for torture.....

Paul and Romney do have more in common than, say; Paul and Obama. But I'd really rather not try and mix water and oil and deal with a bunch of Romney supporters.

This here goes beyond Paul himself too. As long as Romney supports some pretty major anti-Constitutional policies, I don't really want much to do with him.

[V4Vendetta]

Here's something for you, How the HELL CAN A CONSERVATIVE SUPPORT ROMNEY?
I guess you support gay marraige, abortion, gun control?

As far as "Winning" overseas.... looks to me like they are winning, I mean after all. They are bankrupting our country. In a large part to this out of control war. Remember the fall of the sovient union? Well guess what...... they are doing it to us now. There comes a time for wise men to know when to say "enough is enough"

[Matt Collins]

I have been coming to this site on and off with different login names for a couple years now. I am a huge political junkie and I try to stay informed about what all of the potential candidate's supporters are doing. That said, I am an avid Romney supporter and certainly one of the most influential Romney grassroots supporters.Glad to have you. It's good that you are open-minded enough to lurk here. Just be aware that not everything or everyone on here represents Ron Paul's views.




Also, during one of the debates, a lot was made about Romney having an earpiece and getting answers to questions that way. That could not be true because if a microphone was able to pick up the audio coming from an earpiece, Mitt Romney's eardrum would have exploded so it was have come from one of the moderators or candidates on stage.As a proffessional audio engineer and talk radio producer I can tell you that's not necessarily true. I can also tell you that G Gordon Liddy has someone whispering in his ear all the time and it does come through on the radio. Do I believe Mitt was being prompted with an in-ear piece? Not necessecarily but that bit of audio is very curious. My guess is that it was a host or someone in the crowd whispering to themselves outloud. If you search this forum I have written a great deal more about this.






I heard Ron Paul say he didn't plan on winning and wasn't really even trying to. That was in the beginning before he started gaining significant support. His plan was to be a campaign of education and to affect the dialog of the debates and maybe even affect the outcome of the campaign. Once the money and grassroots started rolling in he realized "there was a chance he could win" and even said so on Leno.




http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1260660082 is my facebook account and probably the easiest way to contact me.Will do.

[Jeremy]

As far as "Winning" overseas.... looks to me like they are winning, I mean after all. They are bankrupting our country. In a large part to this out of control war. Remember the fall of the sovient union? Well guess what...... they are doing it to us now. There comes a time for wise men to know when to say "enough is enough"

And supporting wars like Iraq isn't a conservative position. It's a Wilsonian (liberal) position. Robert Taft, one of the greatest American conservatives is probably the most famous anti-war senator in US history.

[Matt Collins]

This Mitt radio interview always frustrated me. He was rather insulting to Ron Paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAFfLy05_YYeah... Larsen is AWESOME! I just heard that for the first time.

[canadian4ronpaul]

welcome to the boards...some of these guys are assholes with no class i see....blaming you for things romney did... but nevertheless...welcome!

I dont agree with romney on a whole lot. Particularly how he would not allow sick people to use marijuana, that really disgusted me, and made me think he was a huge asshole. On the other hand, Mitt is a smart guy. He is very business savy and is...hes just smart. Mccain was one of the biggest morons i've ever laid eyes on i can still hardly believe that jackass was the republican candidate.

yes.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Why are so many of you being downright rude to this guy? Granted, we all agree that he is backing the wrong horse but at least he came here with a desire to talk to us when we have all complained before about the rest of the GOP hoping we would go away. Ladies and Gentleman, we have a REAL chance to make progress but berating people and bashing their beliefs is not going to win us friends OR win us elections. Everyone deserves a chance to see real liberty and perhaps we could explain to our visitor (and future friend) why we are so committed to our cause and explain why we do not subscribe to Romney Republicanism in a calm and rational way. There is no reason to make fun of him or berate him and when we do that we just make ourselves look like immature little jerks. Would Ron Paul act this way?

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Thank you for reaching out, but we are men and women of principle, not personality. This means a humble post as you have done will be good at making friendships, but none of us will be supporting Romney. We, that includes you, have a man of principle to support that WILL turn our nation around, and we all urge you to join forces and gather around principle to elect a man that will to a very large degree destroy the 2-party duopoly and give America real choice, real freedom again.

The bottom line is this, Romney is an establishment figure if ever there was one, Dr Paul is anti-establishment.

I ask that you join us and get your fellow supporters to join us, just as one of Obama's biggest grassroots organizers did just before the primaries. If he could do it, so can you.

Thank for coming thus far, let's press on, together...

[specsaregood]

Why are so many of you being downright rude to this guy?

I don't think that many people here are being rude to him, if anything we are being rude/ridiculing Romney. I don't think my post was rude; but it is silly to but Mitt in the same league as RP in regards to creditibility and foresight.....

[ktorp18]

That was a thoughtful, respectful post, but it didn't change Romney's policies, so I still don't like him. Until Romney speaks of sound money, peace, civil liberties, abolishing the income tax, or the War on Drugs, I will still look at him as just another politician.

[Bryan]

Thanks for the great message Dan- and welcome to the forum.

Everyone- please follow the forum guidelines as best possible here. Thanks!

IMO, attacking Romney personally isn't doing us any good. Attack ideas (the bad ones).

[dannno]

OP > Romney

[TruthisTreason]

Hello everyone,

I have been coming to this site on and off with different login names for a couple years now. I am a huge political junkie and I try to stay informed about what all of the potential candidate's supporters are doing. That said, I am an avid Romney supporter and certainly one of the most influential Romney grassroots supporters.

I have a couple of messages for all of you in regards to a few things.

1. In regards to the NPR March Madness poll, I want to congratulate all of you on winning the battle in such a convincing manner. We knew we couldn't beat all of you in a wide-open war, so we lulled you to sleep and gambled as to when the poll would end. If it had ended at midnight on the 29th, we would've won, but alas our gamble didn't pay off and you all took the day. We do have more support than you give us credit for, and though my various accounts on Facebook, I was able to send out thousands of messages about the poll.

2. As far as who started the cheating, my fellow Romney supporters and I were convinced that ya'll started the botting first, and I guess we'll never know, but there was a time during the early part of the poll where Romney had been winning legitimately and then Ron Paul shot up very fast. Speaking for myself, I never even knew how to spam polls (but I was always curious), and I came on this forum to see if I could somehow learn how it is done. I found a few posts telling different ways to do it and I couldn't help but try to see if it really worked since I had been wondering for years. I admit I got a bit carried away with it, and I apologize for that.

3. There are no hard feelings about the poll itself since both sides thought they were retaliating to cheating and ultimately, you all won. Also, we admire your grassroots machine and we wish we had even half of the organization as you. I tried to put together a mass fundraising day last year and was able to raise a grand total of just over $100,000 but that is dwarfed in comparison to your huge money bombs. My major problem is that I don't know how to harvest E-Mails and I'm not very good at making websites or YouTube videos.

4. There are a few common attacks that Ron Paulites make about Mitt Romney that I want to address. First, as one of the largest Mitt Romney grassroots supporters on the net, I don't like it when people claim that I or any of my fellow supporters are being paid to support Mitt. I definitely don't get a dime for any of the countless hours of work I do for Mitt. Next, I was at CPAC this year and there was nothing shady whatsoever with the straw poll. There were no "buses of mormons" coming from Utah for the vote or anything else like that. Also, Mitt's speech was the mist highly attended and it was very apparent he had the most support of anyone on the ballot there (I went to Ron Paul's campaign for liberty event as well). Also, during one of the debates, a lot was made about Romney having an earpiece and getting answers to questions that way. That could not be true because if a microphone was able to pick up the audio coming from an earpiece, Mitt Romney's eardrum would have exploded so it was have come from one of the moderators or candidates on stage. Finally, I am not Mormon or a neo-con. Most supporters of Mitt that I know are neither. We don't view Mitt as anything near to McCain when it comes to wanting to fight wars. I don't believe Mitt would've sent us to war with Iraq if he had been president instead of Bush, but I obviously have no proof for that.

5. I also like a lot of Ron Paul's ideas, but when I was looking for a candidate during the spring of 2007, I heard Ron Paul say he didn't plan on winning and wasn't really even trying to. I also could see from the type of campaign Huckabee was running that he wasn't putting together the appropriate groundwork to signify how serious he was. Therefore, I liked having them in the debates, but I couldn't throw my support behind them because I view there as being a huge difference between a candidate like Mitt Romney and a Obama. I know a lot of you do not agree, but if Mitt can do for the entire country what he did in Mass. we will all be in such better shape than we are. Graduating valedictorian of his class at Harvard is insane, and the amount of money he was able to make by creating his own company at Bain is astounding. Mitt wasn't able to do that because of his daddy or anything either. Mitt is a self-made man to be sure which is another ridiculous charge made against Mitt.

6. Finally, I hope you all can agree that this last poll was the most interesting and competitive online poll you've been in. I hope that you all had as much fun as we did, and I am completely earnest and sincere when I say that there are many issues that our two camps can agree on and I would be honored to fight along side with you in the many battles we will fight together in the future.

P.S. if you are wondering what some of those battles are, I support many of the candidates like Rand Paul and Peter Schiff that I know you all support in 2010. I also would love to see Ron Paul as governor of Texas. Anyway, please feel free at anytime to let me know how my fellow Mittheads and I can assist you all. We are in some very dark days right now, but if we focus on where we agree, together, we can make America's future brighter.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1260660082 is my facebook account and probably the easiest way to contact me.


Why do you support Mitt? What are polices you agree with that he stands behind?

[someperson]

OP > Romney

:)

[brandon]

Has Romney consulted with his lawyers yet regarding if the president needs a declaration of war from the congress before engaging in acts of war? If so, what did his lawyers say?

[Feenix566]

Thanks for stopping by, Dan. I was thinking of dropping by the Romney and Huckabee forums myself to try and get a grassroots dialogue going. I think we agree more than we disagree, especially in light of what the Democrats in DC have been up to lately...

However, you should know that a lot of Ron Paul supporters care more about principles than we do about winning. In other words, if Romney gets the 2012 nomination and starts supporting bailouts or more wars, you can expect NOT to see us helping out the campaign.

[Elwar]

Hey Dan, thanks for the respectful post. I hope our fellow Ron Paul supporters don't take last year's primaries treatment of Ron Paul out on you too badly.

We all have to remember that the Republican candidates had their differences but 12 trillion dollars later, they are not as huge as they seemed at the time.

I think of all of the candidates besides Ron Paul that lasted into 2008, I would have tolerated Romney as a president. He does have the intelligence fiscally that is needed in the White House. Bush ran all of his family provided businesses into the ground, his treatment of the US economy should have come as no surprise. Romney created a successful business and turned around a failing Olympics. He would have done well with the economy as the nations first priority.

I still would have written in Ron Paul's name, just as I did in November. Principles count a lot more than anything. A man without principles is merely a puppet in the White House who will comprimise the country toward socialism.

[UtahApocalypse]

Had Romney been nominated I may have still voted Republican. I could not vote McCain though. As such I wrote in Ron Paul, wasted or not. Thank you Dan for stepping up and trying to open a dialogue. One thing that some of our supporters need to learn and accept is we cannot win alone. We must open the flaps to the big tent and allow discussion, and even some compromise. I think of it this way.... would we rather have voted Romney in and had someone we agree with 75% or Obama who we agree with -1776%

[Matt Collins]

To the op:

This Mitt radio interview always frustrated me. He was rather insulting to Ron Paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAFfLy05_Y

This interview highlights EXACTLY why Romney cannot be allowed to win the GOP nomination.

[Ozwest]

Agreed MRoCkEd.

I'm guessing America is going to be more selective in its next choice for President. Sooner or later citizens are going to realize the 2 party system is a one party system.

[jkm1864]

I have spent 18 hours a day since the primaries almost every day looking into what Ron Paul said and guess what He is right. Our government was hijacked in 1913 by a bunch of elite crooked bastards and We have been enslaved ever since. How can You as a Romney supporter even come over here without educating Yourself or at least trying to understand what Ron Paul stands for? You think We are a bunch of Weed heads or something that sit around getting stoned all day I bet. So please do me a favor if You are not even going to educate Yourself go back to sheepleville and trust Your government because they would A. Never steal from You, B. Are constitutional in everything they do, C. Love You and are looking out for YOUR best interest instead of the interests of BIG CORPORATIONS.


Oh and btw even though us Ron Paul supporters are more tech savvy then the average American Idiot We don't have to use bots because freedom is popular.....

[iddo]

Here is Romney on why he supports the bailout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73ycyVXalV8#t=2m20s

[acptulsa]

I find it interesting that so many Republicans shied away from Ron Paul because they thought he didn't want the job. So? A reluctant soldier can be the best soldier of all! Simply put, whatever you think of that he was the only one who had a shot at beating Obama, because he was the only one with principles (possibly and common sense) enough to say something other than what Dubya had been saying for eight years.

Following in Dubya's footprints is not a recipe for success. Regardless of the varying degrees of civility in this thread, one must admit that the opinions and principles espoused here have considerably more chance of firing up conservatives and swing voters than the neocons' assertion that of course the parties are different--the Republicans start more wars!

Mr. Chisolm, I respectfully submit that if we aren't the Republican Party's future, it doesn't have one.

[Elwar]

Agreed MRoCkEd.
Sooner or later citizens are going to realize the 2 party system is a one party system.

Don't hold your breath on that one...people love grouping themselves and hating the enemy group.

[Ozwest]

Don't hold your breath on that one...people love grouping themselves and hating the enemy group.

Well, then it's the job of like-minded people, such as ourselves, to shake the peaches out of the tree.

[reduen]

Dan Chisholm = Glen Beck...... :D

[acptulsa]

Dan Chisholm = Glen Beck...... :D

Nah. I actually believe Mr. Chisolm means what he says.

[Pennsylvania]

Dan, hello and welcome to the forum. Do you intend to stick around?

Edit: Nevermind I see you have been here for quite a while in fact :)

[reduen]

I hope you were not at Ames for the last straw. I was there with my son and some of the Romney supporters being bused in there were complete jerks.....

A group of them asked my son why his dad would support a looser… (Don’t worry, I brought a few over to our side just for spite after that..) :cool:

[Dan Chisholm]

“For all this business knowledge Romney supposedly has and is often cited as one of his major strengths. There was only one candidate last primary season that kept on warning about the dire straights our economy was entering. His name was not Mitt Romney. In fact, I believe during the Michigan debate, he claimed it was a one-state recession...”

I live in Michigan and I was highly engaged during that time. Mitt Romney also said many times that “what you’re seeing in Michigan, we will see across the entire country if it isn’t fixed.” and Mitt was right about that.

As for the Lars Larson interview, I think Mitt was more or less frustrated that he couldn’t talk about what he wanted to talk about. I’m sure Mitt regrets some of that interview.

And for the medical marijuana thing, I know this will sound crazy to many of you, but that video shows some internal conflict with Mitt. He wasn’t comfortable with that at all because he does care about people. However, Mitt doesn’t believe that there are cases where medical marijuana is the only way to treat someone, and he didn’t want to have a soundbyte that could be used against him without having more information so he stuck to his principles.


“Here's something for you, How the HELL CAN A CONSERVATIVE SUPPORT ROMNEY?
I guess you support gay marraige, abortion, gun control?”

Romney is on record over and over as opposing gay marriage. His conversion to being pro-life is very will documented. However, you do have a bit of a point about gun control. He has said that the ban he signed on certain assault weapons would never be implemented across the country, but I’m still not sure if I agree with him implementing is at all. I’m sure Mitt had experts from both sides and absorbed a ton of information before he made that decision because he does that with all of his decisions.


“Why do you support Mitt? What are polices you agree with that he stands behind?”

Here in Michigan, we’ve been in trouble for a long time and the combination of unions with too much power and democratic policies have hurt us a lot. My dad is actually friends with our Governor Granholm which is kind of weird because of how bad she has been for our state. Mitt is from Michigan and understands us more that other politicians do, so that was part of my initial support of Mitt. When he came out against the auto bailout, I was so happy. He explained how a managed bankruptcy would be better in the long-run for Michigan and I love it when a politician says the politically unpopular thing when it’s right. I wish Mitt would do it a little more as I’m sure most of you do as well. I agree with Mitt that it would be a betrayal to our troops to have them fight for 6-8 years for a cause and then just say it was a waste and lose. We may have made a mistake in going in the first place, but now that we’re there, we owe it to our men and woman in uniform to have at least something good come out of it. I really like how Mitt made strong families a big part of his platform because the collapse of the American families is a root cause of so many of our other problems. Finally, the man is a genius and more uniquely qualified to bring Real Change to Washington than anyone else I can think of.

[Feenix566]

Agreed MRoCkEd.

I'm guessing America is going to be more selective in its next choice for President. Sooner or later citizens are going to realize the 2 party system is a one party system.

That's wishful thinking.

[Ozwest]

That's wishful thinking.

If people don't start waking up soon, they will only have themselves to blame when the Republic is gone.

[tribute_13]

Dan if you're still revisiting this site. Thanks for becoming a member and being civil. Some of our members still have hard feelings about the unfair bias towards Dr. Paul so please don't let a few spiteful comments generate an overall impression of the site.

I will say this. For a while before I supported Ron Paul I did support Mitt Romney because he did seem to be a very intelligent, educated out spoken individual. However his views on the economy turned me off after I started doing some research on Dr. Paul and his, seemingly, outrageous claims about the DoE, the War on Drugs, and various other federally mandated failures. If Mitt would change his stance on those things or at least entertain the thought or concede that the War on Drugs is a failure or that certain Federal Departments need to be dismantled if anything because they are spending money we don't have, I will be the first to say I hope Mitt does well in 2012. But his views now don't offer very much as an alternative candidate. I'll keep an eye on him.

My take on the NPR thing is that although I did take part in the Macro War I only did so after reading the article about how Romney supporters could spam the polls to pull ahead. Since both of us were spamming the polls no one can complain over the use of Macro's whether on general principle or who did it first. Kudos to you guys for nearly beating us.

As much as I'd love to see Mitt recant a few of his stances due to the dire situation of the economy I doubt it will happen.

Once again thanks for being civil and welcome to the forums.

[Epic]

I love it when a politician says the politically unpopular thing when it’s right..... I agree with Mitt that it would be a betrayal to our troops to have them fight for 6-8 years for a cause and then just say it was a waste and lose.

1. If you like politicians doing the right thing, and not the politically popular thing... look at Ron Paul.

2. Military people gave more money to Ron Paul than to all other candidates combined. They are not owed victory just as history did not owe George Bush a war. Nobody has a claim on my money and fighting in Iraq and Afghan. sure as hell costs money (and lives).

[tribute_13]

Romney is on record over and over as opposing gay marriage. His conversion to being pro-life is very will documented. However, you do have a bit of a point about gun control. He has said that the ban he signed on certain assault weapons would never be implemented across the country, but I’m still not sure if I agree with him implementing is at all. I’m sure Mitt had experts from both sides and absorbed a ton of information before he made that decision because he does that with all of his decisions.


Have you ever considered that since the institution of marriage is strictly a religious ceremony that maybe the government should ONLY be involved in civil unions for tax and health purposes? If a church wants to deny marrying two gays they have the right to do so since its clearly a religious belief. I'm against the federal definition of marriage because its clearly a violation of church and state by forcing a religion to define its own doctrine. I'm atheist but I still think Christians should have the reserved right to deny gays from marrying.

I do think they should have civil unions and that the Federal government should leave marriages as religious ceremonies and nothing more. If I love someone I shouldn't have a piece of paper or the government's permission to do so. I say this because the whole point of the government being involved with marriage in the first place was to ban interracial marriages.

[Dripping Rain]

Heres my problem with Romney

whereas Ron Paul was on tv defending Romney's freedom to worship as a Mormon this guy goes around laughing at him and disrespecting him

Jan 10 08:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pNgt9fKY4A#t=465

Romney: "In this time when our economy is a little fragile... not sure where we're head..."

Jan 20 08:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAFfLy05_Y

Romney on the Mark Larsen show laughing at Ron Paul again and laughing at cutting back the budget

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wNJr9Nq_HQ#t=415

Paul: "I believe we're in a recession. I think it's gonna get a lot worse ... Recession has been predictable, we just don't know exactly when it will come."

Also, Paul gave a well-reasoned argument backing up his position, not just some rhetoric about learning how America's economy works.

[Ozwest]

Good on ya Dripping Rain.

I was wondering when someone was going to bring up the total lack of respect the other candidates afforded Dr. Paul, and the way he was excluded by the Republican Party during the primaries and the debates.

The Democrats and Republicans are as bad as each other. They are old and dated.

[Bryan]

And for the medical marijuana thing, I know this will sound crazy to many of you, but that video shows some internal conflict with Mitt. He wasn’t comfortable with that at all because he does care about people. However, Mitt doesn’t believe that there are cases where medical marijuana is the only way to treat someone, and he didn’t want to have a soundbyte that could be used against him without having more information so he stuck to his principles.
This is a good reason why many of us stick to the principles put forth in the US Constitution in that these issues should be left to the states. As I'm sure you know, the Federal Government is now actively and forcefully preventing the state of California from tailoring its own medical marijuana laws. I'm not sure how policies like this will win voters over much less support freedom.


I love it when a politician says the politically unpopular thing when it’s right.
+1 on this. Sometimes the truth hurts.


I agree with Mitt that it would be a betrayal to our troops to have them fight for 6-8 years for a cause and then just say it was a waste and lose. We may have made a mistake in going in the first place, but now that we’re there, we owe it to our men and woman in uniform to have at least something good come out of it.
A few points on this without a big debate of foreign policy:
- We need to be able to afford our foreign policy. We have a $11+ trillion debt. It should also be cost-effective.
- We need to be mindful of other peoples wishes in their homeland.



... because the collapse of the American families is a root cause of so many of our other problems.
Agreed- and, IMO, if you study the issues really in depth you can see that the root of the problem of collapsing families is too much governmental involvement, loss of parental rights and a loss of freedom by not adhering to the US Constitution. Without strong families we are doomed as a nation. My experience has shown that following the principles in the Constitution is the answer, everything else is just a band-aide and could make other problems worse.

If you provide any example of family matters policy that sounds good that doesn't follow the principles of freedom I can illustrate how it is bad. Try me. :)



Finally, the man is a genius and more uniquely qualified to bring Real Change to Washington than anyone else I can think of.
Respected. Please do consider why the Ron Paul grassroots machine developed as it did however- it was about the promotion of liberty, even when some particular issue didn't suite ones personal agenda. My only hope is that others learn and understand these principles and share them within their networks. It's what made America great.

Thanks again.

[torchbearer]

Agreed MRoCkEd.

I'm guessing America is going to be more selective in its next choice for President. Sooner or later citizens are going to realize the 2 party system is a one party system.

Miss ya man, how is the southern hemisphere treating you?

[Bossobass]

I supported Ron Paul beyond any political activism in my entire life, and I wasn't born recently.

I support Ron because he singularly possesses the kind of unwavering conviction and integrity to the core values his party is supposed to represent and, more importantly, to the US Constitution, as well as to his own personal credo, which includes NEVER having lied to Americans.

I was at the debates in Iowa, NH, Myrtle Beach and Columbia.

I met Ron at the airport in NH and spoke with him for an hour. I asked him the toughest, most personal questions I could ever imagine asking a politician, and his honesty, integrity and depth of knowledge were only eclipsed by the fact that he would afford me the opportunity in the first place, at 5:00 AM, after a national debate and follow up celebration that kept him up until past 2:00 AM.

Anyone who denies that Mitt Romney joined in the conspiracy to belittle and disrespect Congressman and Doctor Ron Paul in front of a national audience (instead of attempting to win a debate with him) either wasn't there, or is a stoned imbecile. PERIOD.

I spoke with Mike Huckabee last summer for 2 hours, including this very subject. I asked him point-blank, "What's your payoff for attacking Ron on cue?", among many other brutal questions, including his ordering of the state owned computer hard drives to be crushed as he left the Governor's mansion.

To Mike's credit, he stood face to face with me, man to man, and answered all of my questions, for better or for worse. He denied taking his points to Ron at the behest of anyone else and apologized if his conduct offended me, leaving it for me to decide if he was sincere or not.

I also bumped into Gilmore, Brownback, Tancredo and shared a flight with Tommy Thompson, all of whom traveled with regular Americans and are fine gentleman.

Huckabee, Tancredo, Thompson, Brownback and Gilmore were not ones who giggled into the open mics like school girls.

Romney, Giuliani, McCain and Fred Thompson did. By their fruits you will know. That was the biggest pile of horse shit I've ever seen in a Presidential campaign, and it happened repeatedly, so don't try to explain it away as a one-time occurrance. Any sort who would resort to that nonsense simply isn't Presidential material. They were the elitists snobs of the campaign and acted as such throughout the campaign.

"Congressman Paul...concerning electability, sir...do you have any?" [Giggle, chortle, hee-haw, ha-ha]. What a bunch of tools. No chance they get my vote for dog catcher, much less POTUS.

Bosso

[weslinder]

Mitt Romney the Presidential candidate would have been my second choice among those running for the GOP nomination (maybe 3rd, but I never took Fred Thompson seriously), if Mitt Romney the Governor hadn't disagreed with him so much. That being said, I met him briefly at the RNC, and he was pleasant and seemed like a genuinely nice guy.

[dr. hfn]

Honestly when I look at him, I see a vain and aspiring politician. However, I love this dialog. May I suggest that every forum do somehting like this to start a dialogue? That said...Romney is a cheater and disrespectful to Ron Paul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w166I1s6EM ~Cheating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXJ31QKhtJM ~Cheating at Straw Poll

Mitt is also not a real or classic conservative in my view. Mitt was a complete asshole to Ron Paul and has an elitist vibe to me. Universal Healthcare is anti-freedom. Gun control is anti-freedom. Abortion is murder. And doesn't Mitt support these things?

[tribute_13]

oh yeah, there was also this
Mitt Being Rude and Unprofessional (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAFfLy05_Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnyletterpress.wordpress.com%2F20 08%2F01%2F29%2Fmitt-romney-endorses-ron-paul%2F&feature=player_embedded)

[Ozwest]

Miss ya man, how is the southern hemisphere treating you?

Thanks for asking.

Loving it down here, but my heart remains with the Republic and the document it was founded upon.

[ProBlue33]

You are a brave soul for posting here.

The GOP is either going to do one of two things in 2012, put up a sacrificial lamb against Obama, or put up a real contender, if the economy is still in the crapper by 2012, we will be in a major depression, then Ron Paul if he runs would have a chance, because Obama will have failed. And the economic situation will trump all others, by a huge margin.

Although by 2012 Ron might be to old to run, he will be in his mid-seventies.

I always wondered why Romney dropped out so fast during the primary, I was so surprised, he should have stayed in with Huckabee, and Ron Paul, and mixed it up at the GOP convention. He caved into the unity play, and how did McCain repay him, he picked Palin as VP. Oh the The Horror, The Horror of it all!
That would have been the smart play to stay in, even to lose, when you look at the democratic primary run, he should have stayed in until convention, just for exposure.

It could come down to a first round vote
Mitt
Huck
Paul
John

Even if John still won, it would have been better for ALL the major candidates, and the exposure it would have generated for them.

Honestly I don't think anybody could have beat Obama this round, Bush's GOP baggage was just to huge for ANY GOP candidate to overcome, even Ron Paul.

Besides people wanted to support a historic vote for the first black man to be President. Being involved in history itself. It was emotional, now that's that done, the GOP needs to get it's act together. Part of that is trying to get the biggest tent as possible, for people to come into with squabbling.
This forum is part of that tent.

One last point, Mitt was very disrespectful of Ron Paul during the debates and his ideas, either it was just because he never heard them before, or he thought ALL Americans are to stupid to understand them, and accept them.

Either way I remember the smirk on his face, the one that says by it's very nature,
"You old fool, your way out there in nut bar land"
Think it or not, you just don't do that in public, on national TV.

[dr. hfn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY6UTnS6Z-A&feature=related ~Romney basically telling a dying man to fuck off. (medical mj)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoU41UwL5LI&feature=related ~Romney's obsession with jihadism...

Romney buys into and/or promotes the asinine "the want to blow us up b/c we're free" argument. A 6 year old can come up with a better explanation than that...

[devil21]

Interesting thread. Seems the Mitt Machine is starting up early. Yahoo has an AP article on Mitt's preps for 2012 on the front page.

I kinda thought Mitt's disrespect toward RP wasn't because he wanted to but because he felt like he had to. For every insulting "Reading Ahmadinejad's press releases again" comment, there were plenty of times where Mitt would stare at RP during RP's answers with a look on his face that said "I know you're right and I wish I could say so...but I can't".

[He Who Pawns]

Huckleberry Hound sabotaged Romney. That is clear. And then McCain didn't even have the decency to give Huckleberry a reacharound and put him on the ticket as VP. Shows you what a twat McWar is.

[weslinder]

I always wondered why Romney dropped out so fast during the primary

He was spending his own money. If a candidate is spending donated money, it's not such a bad idea to keep running with 2nd and 3rd place finishes, and a win here and there. But when he's not getting donations has to dip into his own pocket, it hurts a little more.

[He Who Pawns]

He was spending his own money. If a candidate is spending donated money, it's not such a bad idea to keep running with 2nd and 3rd place finishes, and a win here and there. But when he's not getting donations has to dip into his own pocket, it hurts a little more.

Mitt is also no dummy. He could see that Huckleberry was draining off much of the Christian right vote. If Huck didn't drain Romney in Fla, Romney would have won, and McShame would have been forced to drop out.

[rightofpeople]

Honestly when I look at him, I see a vain and aspiring politician. However, I love this dialog. May I suggest that every forum do somehting like this to start a dialogue? That said...Romney is a cheater and disrespectful to Ron Paul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w166I1s6EM ~Cheating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXJ31QKhtJM ~Cheating at Straw Poll

Mitt is also not a real or classic conservative in my view. Mitt was a complete asshole to Ron Paul and has an elitist vibe to me. Universal Healthcare is anti-freedom. Gun control is anti-freedom. Abortion is murder. And doesn't Mitt support these things?

I had never seen those videos before, that second one is damning.

The guy is clearly given multiple voting cards at the table, and the voters sure are voting for an unreasonably long time.

Not to discount the most damaging aspect, the mainstream media supporting puppet candidates. Incredibly most people vote based off what little they see on TV, without knowing hardly anything about a candidate.

[angelatc]

1. Mitt never said he likes mandates.


He absolutely did say it. From ABC's debate:
…

GIBSON: But Government Romney’s system has mandates in Massachusetts, although you backed away from mandates on a national basis.

ROMNEY: No, no, I like mandates. The mandates work.

I am happy you're willing to look at some of the conservatives we're going to embrace. But I am not going to vote for Mitt.

[Mani]

Welcome Dan,

Thanks for your open dialog that's really nice. I apologize if you feel bringing an olive branch to the discussion is getting turned to ash with a blow torch.

What happened to RP during the debates was wrong and unfortunately Mitt played a role in trying to marginalize him. Out of the other candidates Mitt was a very distant second for me, for many of the same reasons that have already been brought up in this thread, but he was better than the others.

I did notice some Romney supporters did agree with RP supporters on issues, as well as some Huckabee supporters agreed with RP supporters on some issues.

Yes RP supporters follow the principals of Ron Paul so they view things very strictly by the constitution. This is a foreign concept to most politicians which is why you won't see any other candidate live up to RP supporters beliefs.

That being said, I hope we can still work together on the GREATER GOOD that needs to be accomplished. As you mentioned we are in DARK TIMES, and we need to work together on some common goals.

One such goal is auditing the Federal Reserve. HR1207. We've been working hard to get congress to support this bill and pass it. Maybe you can help pick up the torch to your grassroots people and get them to realize these are the types of steps we need to take, to get our country back!

We've been having success communicating with our local representatives that they should support and sponsor this bill. I think working together on objectives such as these are ways in which we can work together, even if we don't agree on philosophy 100%.

As you've probably seen, even within the RP forum there is not 100% agreement on everything, but that's not the point. We have some basic common principals and I believe you have some of them too.

Let's try to agree to disagree on some things, and work together on the important tasks to help this country.

We need to shake up the establishment! They are taking us down a dangerous path, and our combined efforts can go a long way in stopping it from happening...

I'm hopeful we can work together for the greater good of the country and bring the country back to the people. Only a grassroots effort can make it happen.

Once again, welcome to the forums!

[micahnelson]

He absolutely did say it. From ABC's debate:

I am happy you're willing to look at some of the conservatives we're going to embrace. But I am not going to vote for Mitt.

You stink! beat me to it


GIBSON: But Government Romney’s system has mandates in Massachusetts, although you backed away from mandates on a national basis.

ROMNEY: No, no, I like mandates. The mandates work.

THOMPSON: I beg your pardon? I didn’t know you were going to admit that. You like mandates.

ROMNEY: Let me — let me — oh, absolutely. Let me tell you what kind of mandates I like, Fred, which is this. If it weren’t…

THOMPSON: The ones you come up with. Bingo.

(LAUGHTER)


Best quote from the whole campaign season, i thought. Thompson, who had lost at this point, was just there to get his message out and have fun. The implication was Romney liked "Man Dates" and Fred Thompson acted like an 8th grader making a **** joke.

lawlz.

[Bryan]

Great post Mani! IMO there is no doubt that the most important thing for us right now is to work together to stop all these bailouts, nationalization, the move to socialism and dealing with the Federal Reserve (the mother-of-all-problems :)). We can't do this alone. I'm still happy to discuss other issues here as well.

One quick note- the best Romney moment in the campaign for me was the video of him being pranked called- I was :D:D on that one. That was funny and personable. Anyone know if that video is still online?

[kathy88]

Dan, welcome. It's very refreshing for someone to come here with such honesty and lay out their position. I've enjoyed this thread immensely. I had some catching up to do after being computerless over the weekend.

When you're ready to come to the dark side, let us know :)

[slacker921]

Dan -

Please get involved in your local GOP if you aren't already. The neoconservatives need to be outnumbered or the GOP will continue driving off into the ditch.

I have lots of friends who supported Romney. I'd much rather talk to them than those who supported McCain.

[Zolah]

The only thing I'll remember Romney for is claiming that "they're attacking us for our freedom" - and this wasn't Winter 2001 or in the lead up to the invasions...he said this late 2008 when he suspended his campaign. Being stupid is one thing, we were all stupid once, but to willfully remain ignorant is quite another thing.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Great to see you Dan. I would have MUCH rather had Romney than McLame. What I want to know, since Romney is such a great business man, what his stance is on the Federal Reserve? I never heard him talk about the Fed. I consider the Fed and central bank system to be the root of all evil. tones

[Carole]

I respect the OP's right to think what he thinks about Mr. Romney. However, he fails to discern that Romney is just another version of what we have had for years.

Romney is just another big government neocon. The difference between him and Obama is that he might take us to socialism/corporatocracy a little slower than O.

Unfortunately, it may already be too late. Everything that has been done in the past six months toa year by the government-all branches including the private Fed, has been in support of facsism.

Sorry OP, Romney is NOT the right guy.

[specsaregood]

I consider the Fed and central bank system to be the root of all evil. tones

And you would be correct sir. And since Romney is either too scared to mention it or unwise to see it, that totally invalidates his "business knowledge" in my mind.

[devil21]

Oh yeah I almost forgot.

NO MORE RINOS! The GOP can't win with false conservatives any more. I think McCain's giant loss (6 million votes) shows that.

[Athan]

To be fair, we couldn't do it without our fellow American Revolutionary Patriots.
I'm glad these times finally are showing our numbers and organization.

[Catatonic]

Oh yeah I almost forgot.

NO MORE RINOS! The GOP can't win with false conservatives any more. I think McCain's giant loss (6 million votes) shows that.

This.

How does Romney qualify as a conservative in any way?

[Dripping Rain]

Also, during one of the debates, a lot was made about Romney having an earpiece and getting answers to questions that way. That could not be true because if a microphone was able to pick up the audio coming from an earpiece, Mitt Romney's eardrum would have exploded so it was have come from one of the moderators or candidates on stage.

Im sure you all use cellphones. Howmany times did you hear your friends mom speaking when it wasnt even on speaker?
How many times where you in school and could hear some girls ipod all the way accross the hallway?
howcome their ears dont blow up

[Zera]

Oh yeah I almost forgot.

NO MORE RINOS! The GOP can't win with false conservatives any more. I think McCain's giant loss (6 million votes) shows that.

Actually, he lost by nearly 10 million votes.

[Joe3113]

We appreciate your courtesy. Unfortunetly Mitt's assholeness to Ron Paul is documented ....

Here's Mitt bashing Ron for no reason ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAFfLy05_Y

"I sure am laughing at Ron Paul" - Mitt Romney

[Joe3113]

Here's Romney being an asshole to a medical marijuana guy in a wheelchair

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY6UTnS6Z-A&NR=1

[Joe3113]

What Mitt needs to do to to have respect:

1. Apologise openly to Ron Paul in at least 5 television interviews
2. Renounce the Iraq war
3. Admit Ron Paul is a more principled conservative than him
4. He needs to start talking about how the Federal Reserve caused the crisis
5. He needs to say something like "The Mises/Hayek business cycle is absolutely correct"
6. He needs to support Ron Paul on auditing the fed and phasing it out
7. He needs to support Ron Paul on alternative currencies and repealing legal tender laws
8. He needs to renounce the Trotskyite, Straussian Neocons that he is in bed with. (Communists should not be allowed in the Republican Pary).

If he does all that then he's good to go.

[Theocrat]

Great post Mani! IMO there is no doubt that the most important thing for us right now is to work together to stop all these bailouts, nationalization, the move to socialism and dealing with the Federal Reserve (the mother-of-all-problems :)). We can't do this alone. I'm still happy to discuss other issues here as well.

One quick note- the best Romney moment in the campaign for me was the video of him being pranked called- I was :D:D on that one. That was funny and personable. Anyone know if that video is still online?

Here it is, Bryan: "Prank Call From Governor Schwarzenegger" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbaBhb7w_1s) :D

[purplechoe]

Mitt was the socialist I was gonna hold my nose and vote for untill a friend of mine mentioned a guy named Ron Paul running on the republican ticket. As soon as I did some research on the guy, I was blow away. I no longer had to support a socialist and could actually get behind a man who has stood by his principles for 30 years!

OP. You're not gonna grow intelectually unless you admit to yourself that the person you are campaigning for is a socialist. I should know, I left communist Poland in the late 80's to escape the horrors of central economic planning.

[Joe3113]

Here's Mitt supporting Monetarism and Money Printing and the FED

He seems to think the FED is the answer, not the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADTxKiYqgOs

[Joe3113]

LOL. THIS IS THE MOST HILARIOUS ONE ....

Mitt - "Our government needs to take actions to stimulate the economy"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVc-aJ-tEMw


This guy does nto understand economics.

[SLSteven]

LOL. THIS IS THE MOST HILARIOUS ONE ....

Mitt - "Our government needs to take actions to stimulate the economy"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVc-aJ-tEMw


This guy does nto understand economics.

Romney 2012 = Obama II = Bush IV

[Joe3113]

Here's the Mittster saying

"Some of my fellow conservatives arent happy with me that I supported the bailout"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNqk4FRvXV0

[micahnelson]

LOL. THIS IS THE MOST HILARIOUS ONE ....

Mitt - "Our government needs to take actions to stimulate the economy"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVc-aJ-tEMw


This guy does nto understand economics.

Yowza. He wants to cut taxes, increase spending, and increase monetary supply.

[Rangeley]

Personally this is my favorite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoU41UwL5LI&feature=related

[JamesButabi]

Boy Mitts sure got a solid record huh? Thread backfire

[Catatonic]

Yowza. He wants to cut taxes, increase spending, and increase monetary supply.

To be fair, it really depends on which Mitt you're speaking to. He flops around like a fish out of water depending on his audience.

I also liked his hypocrisy about how he was so against lobbyists, and then brought lobbyists into his campaign staff. There was an awesome video last year of a reporter actually calling him out on it. Ol' Mittens was none to happy as you can imagine.

[Bruno]

Boy Mitts sure got a solid record huh? Thread backfire

threadwinner

but a sincere thanks for a great post, Dan :)

[mstrmac1]

http://th01.deviantart.com/fs21/300W/i/2007/285/7/5/Ron_Paul_poster_flyer_by_The_Russian.jpg

[torchbearer]

http://th01.deviantart.com/fs21/300W/i/2007/285/7/5/Ron_Paul_poster_flyer_by_The_Russian.jpg

if I get a bigger copy of the graphic, i can bring them with me to the april 15th tax protest.

[jcarcinogen]

OP, the 'jihadists' will go away once we follow our moral compass. Joseph Smith never had a revelation of a Mormon being President, unless it was on the back of golden plate 3?

Religion and State are separated but how can it be so when he has taken a prior oath to the secretive Mormon temple?

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

Hi,

Your post was thoughtfully written and presented with class, Dan. Please do not engage in online fisticuffs...

Instead, Mr. Chisholm, encourage the Mitt Machine to support HR 1207--a bill to audit the Federal Reserve.

Thank you, kindly.

Regards,
Omphfullas Zamboni

[50calray]

blah

[Bradley in DC]

Dan,

Thanks for the willingness to work together on other candidacies (such as Rand's).

And if you (and others here) weren't aware, we appreciate the Romney staffers giving their CPAC booth to the Paul volunteers for the duration of the conference after Romney conceeded.

EDIT: I voted ONCE in the NPR poll. :)

[Kilrain]

I have the utmost respect for Romney supporters. Most seem to be actual conservatives to me, but while I'd agree that Romney>McCain and that Romney talks at least part of the talk, he hasn't walked the walk. I doubt anyone could go from supporting Paul to supporting Romney.

And FWIW, I'm not a Mormon, but I consider the fact that Romney is a Mormon as something that counts in his favor with me.

[nayjevin]

Dan - I wish your candidate had the diplomacy you do! thanks for posting.

[parke]

You are a brave soul for posting here.

The GOP is either going to do one of two things in 2012, put up a sacrificial lamb against Obama, or put up a real contender, if the economy is still in the crapper by 2012, we will be in a major depression, then Ron Paul if he runs would have a chance, because Obama will have failed. And the economic situation will trump all others, by a huge margin.

Although by 2012 Ron might be to old to run, he will be in his mid-seventies.

I always wondered why Romney dropped out so fast during the primary, I was so surprised, he should have stayed in with Huckabee, and Ron Paul, and mixed it up at the GOP convention. He caved into the unity play, and how did McCain repay him, he picked Palin as VP. Oh the The Horror, The Horror of it all!
That would have been the smart play to stay in, even to lose, when you look at the democratic primary run, he should have stayed in until convention, just for exposure.

It could come down to a first round vote
Mitt
Huck
Paul
John

Even if John still won, it would have been better for ALL the major candidates, and the exposure it would have generated for them.

Honestly I don't think anybody could have beat Obama this round, Bush's GOP baggage was just to huge for ANY GOP candidate to overcome, even Ron Paul.

Besides people wanted to support a historic vote for the first black man to be President. Being involved in history itself. It was emotional, now that's that done, the GOP needs to get it's act together. Part of that is trying to get the biggest tent as possible, for people to come into with squabbling.
This forum is part of that tent.

One last point, Mitt was very disrespectful of Ron Paul during the debates and his ideas, either it was just because he never heard them before, or he thought ALL Americans are to stupid to understand them, and accept them.

Either way I remember the smirk on his face, the one that says by it's very nature,
"You old fool, your way out there in nut bar land"
Think it or not, you just don't do that in public, on national TV.


I agree completely. I suspected the party heads made the same deal with him that they did with McCain before Bush, step down now and you get the nod next time.

Think about it.. the guy spent 20% or so of his own money and he is a genius? Logic tells me he would have gotten his money worth.

I was at the GOP meeting when some party asshole from the capitol of my state gave us this wonderful speech of why we had to rally around McCain. It was fucking pathetic to watch and it sure as hell wasnt ethical.

The party wanted to get behind one guy early so they could let the Dems duke it out and plan longer for a win... only they knew they couldnt win but held on to the belief that the country would feel safer with a war hero and he was the best chance. Bring in Palin to sway women voters pissed about Hillary and bang.. you got a President. Great strategy... for a f+cking retard.

Only at that same meeting I attended, out of the 70 or so folks there... about 5 supported McCain. As I said, it was pathetic. Hindsight is 20/20 and I got my moneys worth!

[parke]

Dan -

Please get involved in your local GOP if you aren't already. The neoconservatives need to be outnumbered or the GOP will continue driving off into the ditch.

I have lots of friends who supported Romney. I'd much rather talk to them than those who supported McCain.

A man I respect alot here is in the GOP and asked me to ride with him to a meeting. As I complained about big government neo-cons, mainly Rudy, he gave me a piece of advice..

'People like to be on the winning team.' It was an eye opening moment for me. He said that he wouldnt back the party until they became conservatives again. He was the most important ally we had downtown and I respect him alot for supporting Paul.

That is why the party was hijacked. Paul even points out where the neo-cons came from. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFsA3bcpDXc

[parke]

Dan,

Thanks for the post. I personally wouldnt vote for Mitt on a number of reasons. The biggest one being because I can write in Pauls name and know my vote isnt wasted... to me.

I dont trust Mitt. I dont like his elitist attitude. The Big Dig sucked a bunch of money out of Taxachusettes and mandatory health care sucks money out of families. He isnt a fiscal conservative and he isnt a social conservative.

In all seriousness, he is a liberal RINO with a couple Republican ideas. Laughing at Paul, the body language when he answered questions, not to mention the quick, testy 'gotta sell ya something' attitude was a turn off.

I dont want a saleman, I want a statesman. I want a guy that believes in the power of the people, not the power of the government. One that believe in freedom, good or bad.

Personally, let Mitt focus on substance and stand by his decisions. He still wont get my vote.

Thanks for posting. Whenever we go most sites with an olive branch, redstate, among others, we get banned. So much for the big tent party. Nobody wants to debate. Ron Paul and his supporters are just crazy. That being said, I would love to work with you guys on getting bills pushed through and supporting Constitutional government.

[Mordan]

very nice post Dan. it really goes a long way when people can talk in such a civil manner. I can fully understand why Romney would have been better than Ron Paul as a president based on executive skills and charisma. It is too bad Romney decided to play the game as politician and not as a statesman. Romney has flip flopped too many times. On the other hand Ron Paul has the right ideas and principles, which is more important. I"m sick of voting for someone. I want to vote for ideas!! The guy who implements the idea is less important.

[Dan Chisholm]

Thanks for the willingness to work together on other candidacies (such as Rand's).

And if you (and others here) weren't aware, we appreciate the Romney staffers giving their CPAC booth to the Paul volunteers for the duration of the conference after Romney conceeded.


Thanks for posting. Whenever we go most sites with an olive branch, redstate, among others, we get banned. So much for the big tent party. Nobody wants to debate. Ron Paul and his supporters are just crazy. That being said, I would love to work with you guys on getting bills pushed through and supporting Constitutional government.

First of all, I want to thank ALL OF YOU for being much more cordial to me than I expected. I was worried that I would be banned and the topic deleted before many of you get to read my message. Also, to my knowledge, we haven't banned any Ron Paul people from any of our Mitt sites since the election and I'm working to ensure that we can continue to be in contact with each other. There are plenty of candidates that we both will want to win in 2010, and I hope we can work together at least on electing those candidates and to moving the Republican Party back towards true conservatism.


Great to see you Dan. I would have MUCH rather had Romney than McLame. What I want to know, since Romney is such a great business man, what his stance is on the Federal Reserve? I never heard him talk about the Fed. I consider the Fed and central bank system to be the root of all evil.

I don't honestly know. I do know that the only times I hear Mitt talk about it, he's complaining, but I haven't heard him say he wants it abolished.


How does Romney qualify as a conservative in any way?

He wants smaller government and lower taxes. That's 1/3 of his entire platform.


Im sure you all use cellphones. Howmany times did you hear your friends mom speaking when it wasnt even on speaker?
How many times where you in school and could hear some girls ipod all the way accross the hallway?
howcome their ears dont blow up

Earpieces are different than cell phones...


What Mitt needs to do to to have respect:

1. Apologise openly to Ron Paul in at least 5 television interviews
2. Renounce the Iraq war
3. Admit Ron Paul is a more principled conservative than him
4. He needs to start talking about how the Federal Reserve caused the crisis
5. He needs to say something like "The Mises/Hayek business cycle is absolutely correct"
6. He needs to support Ron Paul on auditing the fed and phasing it out
7. He needs to support Ron Paul on alternative currencies and repealing legal tender laws
8. He needs to renounce the Trotskyite, Straussian Neocons that he is in bed with. (Communists should not be allowed in the Republican Pary).

If he does all that then he's good to go.

By good-to-go, does that mean you would all campaign for him and vote for him? I agree that Mitt should apologize to Ron Paul, but I'm not sure how he can do it without it looking like pandering. Hopefully, the Iraq War will be over before the next presidential election starts so we don't have to talk about it anymore. Mitt has talked a little about how the Fed's policies especially under Greenspan contributed to this crises. I don't know anything about the Mises/Hayek business cycle. Could someone post some links about that? Also, I would like to know more about repealing legal tender laws. Finally, I think we should all renounce the Trotskyite, Straussian Neocons that are in the Republican Party, but we have to be absolutely sure they are and we should also give them a chance to become true conservatives first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eKIm6zrhp0 is the first video I ever saw about Mitt in case anyone cares.

[Aratus]

Dan Chisholm, ...thy message took true grit.
...its up there with Gentleman Mitt cutting
himself a 42 million dollar check so he could
run in 2012 against the likes of Mike Huckabee,
Bobby Jindal and Sarah Palin! when i am not
boosting Rand or Ron Paul, i do like divine Sarah!

[dude58677]

Mitt Romney should just stick to organizing Olympic events as he did for the Salt Lake Olympics or becoming a chairman of the United States Olympic Committee. Respecting the Constitution and Bill of Rights is not one of Mitt's niche's.

[acptulsa]

Finally, I think we should all renounce the Trotskyite, Straussian Neocons that are in the Republican Party, but we have to be absolutely sure they are and we should also give them a chance to become true conservatives first.

Tricky business, isn't it? On the one hand, we have no idea how many Republicans in positions of power are true conservatives at heart, but have played the money game because, honestly, until now the only way to get elected is to get name recognition and money buys that. So, there may be many good people already in Washington that just haven't been able to be all good for fear they couldn't get reelected and therefore would have to stop doing any good at all. On the other hand, we all saw how Newt, DeLay and their cronies hijacked the New Christian Right movement and used it to gain power and wealth. So, who to trust?

I say we watch their voting records between now and 2010. By their deeds shall we judge them. What else is there? It's unfortunate that Romney isn't in a position to build up a voting record right now. And I sure have a tough time trusting any son of wealth in this era of nepotism and class stratification...

[Aratus]

i have a four-way ARATUS poll. methinks in a way, this is part of the reason why!
i know how folks here feel about Rand Paul and Ron Paul. my poll was 4-way...
Mitt Romney, when he over-spent, he cuts the check and goes into the black.
from what i could see, the NPR internet related poll is a bellwhether and here
we are debating how the next SUPER-TUESDAY could go as our economy tries
to a fathom out a market bottom. The folks in FARGO showed us some true grit.

[dude58677]

"There is no such thing as sheeple. There is only Yamamoto's sleeping giant, waiting to be filled with a terrible resolve. "

LOL!

[acptulsa]

Mitt Romney, when he over-spent, he cuts the check and goes into the black.

Yeah, that doesn't help me trust the Romney clan either. Mitt's daddy got rich off of American Motors even as it was sliding into bankruptcy. Sound familiar?

dude, what's funny about it? The sleeping giant is waking up and getting pissed even as we speak...

[sparebulb]

Banning and arresting people based on what they say is a function of the liberals and the neocons. By the way, didn't your buddy Mitt have a neocon criminal as a "bodyguard" that served to expel and muscle those with whom disagreed with Mitt? That speaks volumes about your hero.

Speaking of hero Mitt, the neocon in Mormon's clothing is a nut that doesn't fall far from his family tree............

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695208290,00.html



Romney ancestor fled Army, joined LDS Church
By Lee Davidson
Deseret Morning News
Published: Saturday, Sept. 8, 2007 12:22 a.m. MDT
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It may not be what a presidential candidate would want historians discussing, as they did Friday. But exactly 150 years ago, an ancestor of Mitt Romney deserted from U.S. Army troops sent to put down a purported Mormon rebellion in Utah.

Carl Heinrich (Charles Henry) Wilcken, Romney's great-great-grandfather, would give Mormons information about approaching troops, eventually joined the LDS Church and ultimately became a bodyguard and confidant of two church presidents.

The middle name of Romney's father, former Michigan Gov. George W. Romney (also once a presidential candidate), is Wilcken, after that soldier-ancestor.

The little-known soldier in the little-known "Utah War" was a topic Friday at the annual Utah State History Conference. Several seminars focused on the 150th anniversary of that "war," in which President James Buchanan sent troops against Mormons in 1857-58 after ex-officials convinced him that Mormons would not submit to federal law.

Mormons saw that as a renewal of persecution and sent militia to face the army in what was essentially a mini-civil war four years before the real thing between North and South. Little shooting occurred, as Buchanan eventually gave amnesty to Mormons as they accepted a non-Mormon governor and a permanent garrison of U.S. troops.
Story continues below
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Amateur historian Steve Richardson presented a paper Friday that discussed Wilcken, who he said had previously been awarded the Iron Cross by the king of Prussia for service in its war against Denmark.

After that war, Denmark attempted to draft former Prussian soldiers living in its acquired regions of Scheswig-Holstein. So Wilcken decided to leave and join friends in Argentina but had only enough money to make it to New York.

Richardson said Wilcken was unable to find work, so he joined the U.S. Army and was sent on the "Utah expedition."

"He was unhappy with the lack of discipline of the soldiers," Richardson said. "He had a low opinion of other soldiers," as they talked about possibly hanging or jailing Mormon leaders and "appropriating" their wives and daughters.

Wilcken saw poor protection by U.S. troops, which allowed Mormon militia to burn forage in front of the approaching army. LDS soldiers also burned many of the federal supply wagons and ran off the army's livestock. Soldiers had little to eat. Their winter camp in Wyoming would be one of the hardest in the history of the U.S. Army.

Wilcken decided to desert and head for Salt Lake City. But, Richardson said, Wilcken reported a spiritual experience that delayed that action for a day and possibly saved him from being jailed or shot.

As he was about to desert, he said he "heard a voice calling his name" — his real name, not the assumed name he used to enlist. Two other times as he was to leave, he heard his name called and stopped. Wilcken later learned that the cavalry had been on patrol all night watching Mormon camps and likely would have caught him.

Richardson said, "That night, he had a dream telling him to ask his captain for permission to go out hunting the next day, and he would meet some friends." He did exactly that, deserted and met Mormons who escorted him back to their lines. That was on Oct. 7, 1857, 150 years ago next month.

Richardson said Wilcken was impressed with Mormons and their lack of the cursing and fighting that he had seen with U.S. troops. Wilcken provided Mormons with information about conditions of the U.S. Army and went to Salt Lake City.

Historian William P. MacKinnon added that Wilcken's U.S. Army captain, John W. Phelps, wrote in his diary about Wilcken's disappearance and "talked about what a fine man he was and how different he was from another man who deserted."

MacKinnon noted that Phelps, who would become a Union general in the Civil War, ran for president in 1880 but received only a few hundred votes. Wilcken's Romney descendants have done better than that in their campaigns for president.

Wilcken was baptized into the LDS Church only two months after he deserted the Army and later had plural wives. In later years, he became a messenger and bodyguard for LDS President John Taylor, who was, at times, in hiding during federal anti-polygamy crusades. He also was a bodyguard for President Wilford Woodruff, who succeeded John Taylor and ultimately led the church away from the practice of polygamy.

[dude58677]

Yeah, that doesn't help me trust the Romney clan either. Mitt's daddy got rich off of American Motors even as it was sliding into bankruptcy. Sound familiar?

dude, what's funny about it? The sleeping giant is waking up and getting pissed even as we speak...

Just a funny way to state it.

[angelatc]

Yeah, that doesn't help me trust the Romney clan either. Mitt's daddy got rich off of American Motors even as it was sliding into bankruptcy. Sound familiar?

dude, what's funny about it? The sleeping giant is waking up and getting pissed even as we speak...

I had an idea - why doesn't Mitt move to Michigan and fix the economy using conservative principles? We have everything he should need - cheap resources, land, import / export access.... it is his for the taking.


Originally Posted by Dan Chisholm :
Finally, I think we should all renounce the Trotskyite, Straussian Neocons that are in the Republican Party, but we have to be absolutely sure they are and we should also give them a chance to become true conservatives first.

Based on Mitt's tendency to enthusiastically embrace Clintonesque aggressive foreign policy, I am not convinced that Mitt isn't one of them.

I do believe he had "help" at the debate where the audible whisper cued the right response. I saw it. I saw him respond to it. I resent being called a fool for not believing my own 2 eyes and ears. It happened. He got busted.

I think that America would do best with a weak President right now. Even though the masses would be furious, and such a president would likely only last 1 term, it would give us a chance to breathe and give the economy a chance to get a footing again.

Mitt has no interest in being a weak President. He wants to be the CEO of the country, but that's not how America was designed to run.

[Aratus]

gentleman mitt was not a totally lousy governor for my own bay state. he had his moments... i was more inclined to think fond thoughts of sarah palin because alaska is sooooo verrry distant from d.c and yes, i am a 911 truther who said here there were more calls. ask nice monsieur dan chisholm about jane swift and why her term was only nine months as our governor, and this was a tad unfair... she once had a political potential equal to that of hillary clinton... (saw a story today in another thread. mitt thinks its TRES cool that barack fires this GM ceo) happy days are here again... maybe, maybe not!

[Dan Chisholm]

I had an idea - why doesn't Mitt move to Michigan and fix the economy using conservative principles? We have everything he should need - cheap resources, land, import / export access.... it is his for the taking.

If Mitt can't be president, I would absolutely love to have him as our governor. We need a leader like him here so desperately.

Also, check out http://nyformitt.blogspot.com/2009/03/romney-proven-right.html

There have been articles like that popping all over the internet since yesterday. Romney took a very bold stand and was once again ahead of the curve with what to do with the auto industry. What do you all think about the article Mitt wrote way back when that can be found at http://digg.com/business_finance/Let_Detroit_Go_Bankrupt_Mitt_Romney if any of you missed it back then.

[pcosmar]

If Mitt can't be president, I would absolutely love to have him as our governor. We need a leader like him here so desperately.

Also, check out http://nyformitt.blogspot.com/2009/03/romney-proven-right.html

There have been articles like that popping all over the internet since yesterday. Romney took a very bold stand and was once again ahead of the curve with what to do with the auto industry. What do you all think about the article Mitt wrote way back when that can be found at http://digg.com/business_finance/Let_Detroit_Go_Bankrupt_Mitt_Romney if any of you missed it back then.

Oh Hell No !!
Michigan is in enough trouble.
What, you want him to close the factories and sell the assets. That is what he does. The man made his money as a corporate raider. He put thousands out of work.
Hell No. :mad:

[JoshLowry]

Welcome to the forum Dan.

My problem with Mitt is he thinks we should be meddling in the affairs of other sovereign nations. We have no business killing hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq. How is this acceptable to you?

His "double guantanamo" response does not sit well with me either. Locking people up without trial nor evidence for an indefinite period of time is not good. We have tortured people at these bases.

The individuals who fight us are mad that we are occupying their countries, killing friends or family, and building permanent military bases on their soil. They are not "terrorists."

Far from it. If anything, it is the other way around.

You should realize that. I'm sure Mitt does, but rather than speak truth to power he plays the game.

[nbhadja]

...

[nbhadja]

If Mitt can't be president, I would absolutely love to have him as our governor. We need a leader like him here so desperately.

Also, check out http://nyformitt.blogspot.com/2009/03/romney-proven-right.html

There have been articles like that popping all over the internet since yesterday. Romney took a very bold stand and was once again ahead of the curve with what to do with the auto industry. What do you all think about the article Mitt wrote way back when that can be found at http://digg.com/business_finance/Let_Detroit_Go_Bankrupt_Mitt_Romney if any of you missed it back then.

Mitt Romney supports big government.

*Romney currently supports the federal government's involvement in education and supports No Child Left Behind. He said that he supports testing in schools and that testing "allows us to get better schools.

"As I've been a governor and seen the impact that the federal government can have holding down the interest of the teachers' unions and instead putting the interests of the kids and the parents and the teachers first, I see that the Department of Education can actually make a difference"

*He would consider cap-and-trade only if part of a larger global plan.

*Romney supports regulation of greenhouse gas emissions, primarily through voluntary measures. He issued a 72-point Climate Protection Plan. His staffers spent more than $500,000 negotiating the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI--pronounced "Reggie"), which Romney praised in November 2005, saying "I'm convinced it is good business." As plan details were being worked out, Romney began pushing for a cap on fees charged to businesses who exceed emission limits, citing concerns of increased consumer energy costs. He stated: "New England has the highest energy rates in the country, and RGGI would cost us more." This ongoing disagreement eventually led Romney, in December, 2005, to pull out of RGGI.

*As governor, Romney signed a 2004 measure instituting a permanent Massachusetts ban on military style assault weapons, to take the place of a Federal ban, which was then about to expire.

*As Governor of Massachusetts, Romney signed legislation that required that nearly all Massachusetts residents obtain health insurance coverage by establishing means-tested state subsidies for people without adequate employer insurance, by directing funds designated to compensate for the health costs of the uninsured, and also specified penalties for those who fail to obtain coverage.[48][49][50] Legislation, effective on July 1, 2007, requires health insurance for all state residents, provided a plan is available to the individual that is deemed affordable according to state standards. Employers with eleven or more employees are mandated to offer approved insurance plans for employees.

*On August 24, 2007, Romney unveiled his national health care plan. His plan allowed the states to choose individual health care plans for their fellow Americans.

*Romney is a strong opponent of medical cannabis under any circumstances.

*Romney believes the government should invest more in technologies that will help the United States

*a comprehensive analysis by the National Taxpayers Union found that Romney's presidential campaign proposals would increase the federal budget by $19.5 billion

*Governor Romney has said that he favors "moderate, predictable changes" in the minimum wage linked to other indicators of growth in the economy

*By the end of Romney's term as governor, declining aid from the state to localities caused property taxes to rise by 5% to their highest level in 25 years.[80] The state and local tax burden in Massachusetts increased from 10 percent to 10.6 percent of per capita income during Romney's governorship, according to analysis by the Tax Foundation.[81] To help get the state out of debt, Romney doubled fees for court filings, professional regulations and firearm licenses, raising $400 million in the first year of the program.[82] Romney also increased the state gasoline fee by 2 cents per gallon, generating about $60 million per year in additional revenue; the fee is in addition to the 21-cent-per-gallon state gas tax.[81] Romney approved $128 million in tax changes such as sales tax from purchases on the Internet[83] and raised another $181 million in additional business taxes in the next two years; businesses called these changes tax increases, but Romney defended them as the elimination of "loopholes."[81][84]

*Supports fiat currency
*Supports central banks
*supports unconstitutional expensive foreign policy

No offense, but he is NOT for small government.

[Buffalo Bruce]

I kept links to a couple of primary exit polls. Romney's supporters were more female, richer, more religious, and older than Ron Paul's. Romney's supporters were more likely to support Bush. 74% of Romney supporters gave an unfavorable rating to Ron Paul. Romey supporters thought the economy was better than Paul's supporters and were much more likely to support the Iraq war.

New Hampshire exit poll
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21228191/

Michigan exit poll
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21228184/

Not related, but in Nevada, when the McCain people were trying to steal the state convention vote, some of the Romney supporters sided with the Paul delegates.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Great to see you Dan. I would have MUCH rather had Romney than McLame. What I want to know, since Romney is such a great business man, what his stance is on the Federal Reserve? I never heard him talk about the Fed. I consider the Fed and central bank system to be the root of all evil. tones

Agreed. Any candidate at the national level who won't address this issue is virtually worthless.

[tremendoustie]

Oh Hell No !!
Michigan is in enough trouble.
What, you want him to close the factories and sell the assets. That is what he does. The man made his money as a corporate raider. He put thousands out of work.
Hell No. :mad:

I'm no Mitt fan, but closing the factories and selling them to someone who can run a competent auto manufacturing business, free from the oppressive burden of the unions, is exactly what we need. Incompetent companies who consume more than they produce should be liquidated.

[pcosmar]

I'm no Mitt fan, but closing the factories and selling them to someone who can run a competent auto manufacturing business, free from the oppressive burden of the unions, is exactly what we need. Incompetent companies who consume more than they produce should be liquidated.

Sorry but that is not what he did.
Hostile takeover, Close business, fire employees
Liquidate assets , collect profit.
Produce nothing.

Sorry, but there is no nice way to put it. He was just one of many that trashed the industrial base of this country.
NAFTA Helped, Over regulation helped. Over taxing helped.
But these raiders sucked, :(

[ClayTrainor]

Oh Hell No !!
Michigan is in enough trouble.
What, you want him to close the factories and sell the assets. That is what he does. The man made his money as a corporate raider. He put thousands out of work.
Hell No. :mad:

ummmm.... isn't that exactly what we want them to do?


Sell off the bad assets for as much as they can get, and allow new industries to move in?

[tremendoustie]

Sorry but that is not what he did.
Hostile takeover, Close business, fire employees
Liquidate assets , collect profit.
Produce nothing.

Sorry, but there is no nice way to put it. He was just one of many that trashed the industrial base of this country.
NAFTA Helped, Over regulation helped. Over taxing helped.
But these raiders sucked, :(

I understand what you're saying pcosmar, but I disagree. Overtaxing, over regulating, and most of all, the loose fiscal policies of the Fed led to overconsumption and underproduction, eroding the manufacturing base of the country.

Corporate raiders are just the symptom -- if companies were made unproductive by the economic environment created by the government, as well as by undue regulations and unions, that means they consume more than they produce. Such a company should be liquidated.

That is, government created a distortion in the market -- raiders are just a tool to more quickly shift the economy to match the market. Shifting quickly is what we need -- the distortions were the problem.

[pcosmar]

ummmm.... isn't that exactly what we want them to do?


Sell off the bad assets for as much as they can get, and allow new industries to move in?

NO, I want the Government OUT of business.
I don't want them to Bail them out.
I don't want them to Over tax and over regulate them out of business.
I don't want them to interfere

I want the government OUT of business.
It is the Government in Michigan that is killing the ones left here. Most have moved out of state.
I sure don't want the Government managing them. They'll manage them to death.

[ClayTrainor]

NO, I want the Government OUT of business.
I don't want them to Bail them out.
I don't want them to Over tax and over regulate them out of business.
I don't want them to interfere



Good point, i wasn't thinking clearly.

Obviously i want the free-market to handle these assets as well...



I want the government OUT of business.
It is the Government in Michigan that is killing the ones left here. Most have moved out of state.
I sure don't want the Government managing them. They'll manage them to death.

Yea... i'm with you.

I'm pretty drunk right now... just got back from the pub, not thinking too clearly.
:o

[enjoiskaterguy]

Romney does not support legalization of medical Marijuana, free speech, gun ownership, protection of civil liberties, national soverienty, sound money, or a non-interventionist foreign policy....um, no I can't support him... EVER, and I'm mormon.

LDS FOR RON PAUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[axiomata]

I don't know anything about the Mises/Hayek business cycle. Could someone post some links about that? Also, I would like to know more about repealing legal tender laws.

I'd recommend bookmarking the blog over at the Mises Institute and checking in every few days. If you'd be more likely to check back less frequently I'd just bookmark the main page as the main page only links to a few articles every week.

http://blog.mises.org/blog/

The best part about the site is that they have a large collection of scanned books/papers and will point you to them for more info.

Here's their archive of uploaded literature on the business cycle: http://mises.org/literature.aspx?action=subject&Id=12 Hazlitt is a great beginner's writer (believe it or not he used to write for the NY Times). His Economics in One Lesson is a classic (though not specifically dealing with the business cycle.)

If your more of a just give me a book type of guy, this (http://www.mises.org/store/Austrian-Theory-of-the-Trade-Cycle-and-Other-Essays-The-P46.aspx)is a good beginner's book. Not sure what kind of luck you will have finding it at a library as it is more of a compilation of original essays by Mises Hayek etc.

[AutoDas]

You guys are too nice to this guy. Rombots are trying the same strategy before except this time they're being sore losers.

[DAFTEK]

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9628/flipfloplr4.jpg

[nayjevin]

By good-to-go, does that mean you would all campaign for him and vote for him?

Dan, I think this may highlight a key difference between our groups.

Each individual supporter will make his or her own decision.

I would say that most Ron Paul supporters believe each precinct should make their own decisions as well.

The smaller the number of people a set of rules covers, the more peace and individual liberty is achieved.

Same goes for states rights vs. federal power.

My impression is that Romney believes that he can 'do' things as president that will make things better for everyone -- to me, this is painting the whole country with a broad brush.


We need a strong president - strong enough to resist the temptation of taking power a president shouldn't have. (may be a slight paraphrase - from memory)

[acptulsa]

Dan, I think this may highlight a key difference between our groups.

Each individual supporter will make his or her own decision.

We are capable of being team players, Mr. Chisolm. We just don't do it unless we believe in the team. And many of us agree that what we saw from Dubya for eight years isn't worth fighting for. Now, can Romney convince us that he will do better?

[OptionsTrader]

Fuck Mitt Romney.

If I had an dime for every time he said Islamofascist during the primaries in an effort to scare J6P I'd could pay for his trip to Leavenworth.

[Buffalo Bruce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kU8ZbMYgyc

This is a video of Romney's Illinois Chairman State Senator Dan Rutherford after he took away a Ron Paul sign, stood on it, and attempted to provoke Paul supporters. (at 41 second mark) This violent man was never reprimanded by the Romney campaign as far as I know. And what was with the security team that accompanied Romney on the campaign trail insinuating they were actual police. Why the creepy thugs?

[DAFTEK]

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/dwatson/Mitt%20Romney.gif

[DAFTEK]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/simonthedude/mitt_romney-1.jpg?t=1238597195

[phill4paul]

Welcome to the forums Dan,

For myself I would say it would be a cold day in hell before I ever supported Mitt Romney.

For myself I have had it with either party and the only reason I support Ron Paul is because he is saying and has always said what neither of the parties are saying. The government is limited by the Constitution. Romney can ask his lawyers about what steps he should take all he wants. I vote for those that stand for individual liberty regardless of or in spite of their political party.

[John of Des Moines]

Mitt is a CFR member.

CFR membership equals someone willing to work with the global elites.

Mitt is willing to sell out our constitution.

End of story.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

mitt is a cfr member.

Cfr membership equals someone willing to work with the global elites.

Mitt is willing to sell out our constitution.

End of story.

qft

[Unspun]

Welcome to the forum and I appreciate your post Dan,


1. Mitt never said he likes mandates. I think you are getting confused with "I like vetoes". The mandates in his health care package were the result of the democratically controlled congress in his state and not part of his plan.

I think Angela dispelled that myth in her first post in this thread found here http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2049128&postcount=81


2. I believe that Mitt is closer to Ron Paul on some things that you all realize, but he doesn't focus on them because they are not politically smart moves to make (yet), but that is why I hope Ron Paul's ideas continue to gain momentum so politics can be more about ideas than attacks.

I don't quite buy it. Josh mentioned his support for overseas adventures, doubling Guantanamo, two things I find morally irreprehensible. He supports the income tax, as shown in the video I will link to below. He hasn't said much anything about the Federal Reserve. He supports the idea of continuing the CIA, and its missions. There's many more differences, but it would take me a long time to name them, and I really don't have the time, so while I appreciate you trying, key word being trying, to equate Mitt as much as you can to Ron Paul, I just don't think the argument holds much water.


3. I agree Mitt shouldn't have laughed at Ron Paul at one of the debates because I actually agreed with Ron Paul on that and was surprised to see Mitt laugh like that. However, after thinking about it, I realized that Mitt does so much work to prepare for the debates, that I think the laughter was his way of reacting to a question he hadn't prepared for. I think it was more of a nervous reaction/unconscious stall tactic than an attempt to belittle Ron Paul. In fact, here in Michigan, when questioned off-the-air by a Ron Paul supporter at an event I was at, Mitt expressed a lot of fondness for Ron Paul as someone who has no ulterior motives and just wants his ideas heard.

I disagree and I think this video speaks for itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAFfLy05_Y&#t=4m04s

[satchelmcqueen]

welcome dan,

i support paul because of how unwavering he is on the issues. he speaks for and stands up for me and my family reguardless of the political suicide he sometimes incounters because of it. truth is truth and mitt just doesnt stand in the same line as paul does imo...

about mitt apologizing to paul for laughing at him (and me) in the debates without sounding like hes "pandering' as you put it. well, if you do a man wrong it isnt pandering to make things right. be real about it and say your sorry. if he did that, ild gain a ton of respect for him even though he still might be different on other issues. i could tell in the debates at one point when he was laughing at paul, the audience started booing him, and it seemed that mitt really seemed to notice he made a mistake, but he didnt make it right.

issues aside, until he apologizes for being dis respectful to paul on national TV, i just wont even think of him on any level. and i also think he needs to address the fact that him and all the other candidates banded together in Louisiana and put some crazy "family values org" or something like that on the ballots because they all knew they couldnt beat paul alone. fact is, they CHEATED.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/simonthedude/mitt_romney-1.jpg?t=1238597195

Some businessman.

[georgiaboy]

Welcome, Dan! I'm a Ron Paul Supporter and I have a Message for You!

Being a Romney supporter, I'm sure many of the ideas Ron Paul espouses are new to you.

Heck, they were new to me when Ron first got my attention during the first televised debate.

I highly recommend you spend time here reading and learning in the different subforums, asking questions, etc. To know where most of us are coming from, I highly recommend you search for discussions on the basics of the constitution. There's a great video series by Michael Bednarik (sp?) that gave me an awesome and surprisingly eye-opening education on just how our government and society is supposed to operate under the constitution.

Here's the bottom line for me. We conservatives need the Romneys of the world to start moving in Ron Paul's direction, not the other way around. I take it by your being here that you may agree with that statement.

That said, in order for Romney to appeal to me, he has a lot of re-thinking, retracting, and re-positioning to do on the important conservative issues of the day:

1. Constitutionally limited federal government, which is the foundation of everything else
2. Radical reduction in the size and regulatory scope of the federal government (think health care, education, welfare, social security, tax code, ...)
3. Sound money
4. Non-interventionist foreign policy, end the empire and nation-building
5. Zero further bailouts

He also has to followup these philosophical and positional stances with actions that reflect these changed positions.

For example, telling me he'll partner with private healthcare as his "conservative" approach to contrast "socialized medicine" just won't cut it with me any more. It's just a different shading of the same position -- getting the government involved where it doesn't belong.

[Aratus]

admittedly mitt romney himself has moved away from a wonderously centrist stance as our governor into
a more traditional conservatism as a national candidate. eventually he might be a robert taft republican!!!

[Dan Chisholm]

Not related, but in Nevada, when the McCain people were trying to steal the state convention vote, some of the Romney supporters sided with the Paul delegates.

I am happy you brought that up. Most Romney supporters I know are on much friendlier terms with Paul than they are with McCain. McCain is one of the most unclassy politicians I've ever witnessed. He treated Romney and Paul very badly, and I couldn't vote for McCain in November, so I voted for Bob Barr so my protest vote would be counted.


Sorry but that is not what he did.
Hostile takeover, Close business, fire employees
Liquidate assets , collect profit.
Produce nothing.

I feel like you are just stereotyping because I've done piles of research on what Mitt did while he ran Bain, and he is responsible for more job creation than almost any other business person that I can think of. Every Staples job in the country wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Mitt. On top of that, Mitt's stance on the auto industry may strike some as unfriendly, but a little tough love is what they needed at the time and would have helped the auto industry in the long run as well as saved us taxpayers billions of dollars.


You guys are too nice to this guy. Rombots are trying the same strategy before except this time they're being sore losers.

If you are talking about the NPR poll again, I do not have any knowledge whatsoever of Romney supporters voting for Huntsman, but obviously I don't know every single Romney supporter. It wasn't any of us at planetromney, committedtoromney, or any of the facebook groups as far as I know. We don't like Huntsman a whole lot because he's no Mitt first of all, and because he might take some of the Mormon vote from Mitt if they both run in the primaries.


We are capable of being team players, Mr. Chisolm. We just don't do it unless we believe in the team. And many of us agree that what we saw from Dubya for eight years isn't worth fighting for. Now, can Romney convince us that he will do better?

If you compare the lives of GWB and Mitt, they start off similarly, but they go off on different tracks after that. They were both at Harvard at similar times, but Mitt earned his way in while GWB got in because of his father. Mitt worked hard, didn't drink and party, and graduated valedictorian while GWB barely graduated. Mitt had to prove himself for a few years in order to get people to believe in him so they would invest in the company he wanted to start, and Mitt, who started his companies with so little, became what some have called "the best businessman in North America".


Mitt is a CFR member.

You might be right, but I was having this discussion at Committedtoromney with some Ron Paul supporters and asked them how they knew Mitt was for sure because I didn't know for sure. They just posted a link to the CFR website of a profile of Mitt on the site and said that was proof, so I looked at the site and Ron Paul has a profile on the site as well, and I'm pretty sure Ron Paul isn't a member. Is there a news article somewhere or something that indicates that Mitt actually is a CFR member?


i also think he needs to address the fact that him and all the other candidates banded together in Louisiana and put some crazy "family values org" or something like that on the ballots because they all knew they couldnt beat paul alone. fact is, they CHEATED.

That was really weird. I remember being excited to see what was going to happen there, and I couldn't understand what had happened. I think Romney and Paul were the only candidates that spent any money there and I was looking forward to see if Mitt could pick up some delegates there. I agree that it was bizarre, and I'd love to know some insider info because I heard the RNC were to blame for that.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

And I have a message for you:

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/romney-breaks-with-gop-on-the-issue-of-deregulation-2009-04-01.html

ROMNEY FAILS

[Bryan]

They just posted a link to the CFR website of a profile of Mitt on the site and said that was proof, so I looked at the site and Ron Paul has a profile on the site as well, and I'm pretty sure Ron Paul isn't a member. Is there a news article somewhere or something that indicates that Mitt actually is a CFR member?

Dr. Paul is not a member-

Ron Paul answers question if he is a member of the CFR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV_AML16tC8

[DAFTEK]

^ Thanks Bryan :D Why is it that i can never get tired of listening to Dr. Paul speak? :D

[Join The Paul Side]

Until Mittens learns that there are more important issues than crying about the Islamic Boogieman, his campaign is a lost cause and a waste of valuable resources. :cool:

[Minarchy4Sale]

Thanks for being friendly. As for Mitt, I find him to be a typical politician, and only a fiscal conservative and not a particularly strong one even there. I also dont see him standing up for civil liberties, or ending the police state. I dont see him ending the patriot act, warrantless wiretapping, or any of another thousand crappy government surveillance programs. No thanks.

[Buffalo Bruce]

Mitt's friends include-

Goldman Sachs $234,275
Citigroup Inc $178,200
Merrill Lynch $173,025
Morgan Stanley $170,350
Lehman Brothers $152,000
UBS AG $123,350
Bain Capital $123,150
Bain & Co $121,475
Marriott International $121,150
Kirkland & Ellis $109,400
Compuware Corp $103,550
Credit Suisse Group $102,600
Huron Consulting Group $102,050
The Villages $102,000
PricewaterhouseCoopers $92,250
Affiliated Managers Group $82,112
JPMorgan Chase & Co $79,700
Cerberus Capital Management $78,950
American Financial Group $78,350
HIG Capital $71,675

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00000286

[rich34]

Mitt's friends include-

Goldman Sachs $234,275
Citigroup Inc $178,200
Merrill Lynch $173,025
Morgan Stanley $170,350
Lehman Brothers $152,000
UBS AG $123,350
Bain Capital $123,150
Bain & Co $121,475
Marriott International $121,150
Kirkland & Ellis $109,400
Compuware Corp $103,550
Credit Suisse Group $102,600
Huron Consulting Group $102,050
The Villages $102,000
PricewaterhouseCoopers $92,250
Affiliated Managers Group $82,112
JPMorgan Chase & Co $79,700
Cerberus Capital Management $78,950
American Financial Group $78,350
HIG Capital $71,675

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00000286

Wow, speaks for itself. I appreciate the original posters sincere comments and welcome you here, but imo Mitt Romney is just another tool for the elite and with those donations above it would be hard to argue that he isn't. In contrast go look and see where Ron Paul's money came from. :)

[Dan Chisholm]

And I have a message for you:

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/romney-breaks-with-gop-on-the-issue-of-deregulation-2009-04-01.html

ROMNEY FAILS

Did you read the actual article or just the title? If you read the entire article and understand the issues Romney brings up, I'd like to know what Romney Failed at.

[trey4sports]

Did you read the actual article or just the title? If you read the entire article and understand the issues Romney brings up, I'd like to know what Romney Failed at.

i read the article and the whole thing fails,

pro TARP
no fundamental criticism of the GOP
nothing about eliminating programs
vague BS about "modernizing regulations"


he is a tool for elitism and the status quo

[Dan Chisholm]

Thank you for reading the whole thing. I thought it might be a situation similar to when Mitt wrote the New York Times piece about allowing the auto companies to go bankrupt and so many people only read the title and didn't understand that it was actually advice on how to make the Big Three competitive again.

Those are valid points of disagreement except for complaining about what Mitt omitted. Mitt can't tackle every topic with every article that someone else writes about him. Think about the standard you are holding him to. No one can completely control what others write about them...

[Kludge]

Mitt can't tackle every topic with every article that someone else writes about him. Think about the standard you are holding him to. No one can completely control what others write about them...

There's a something you'd think we would have learned :p

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/paul.newsletters/

[constituent]

I have been coming to this site on and off with different login names for a couple years now.

Hahahaha, name names.

[angelatc]

Wow, speaks for itself. I appreciate the original posters sincere comments and welcome you here, but imo Mitt Romney is just another tool for the elite and with those donations above it would be hard to argue that he isn't. In contrast go look and see where Ron Paul's money came from. :)

You'd think that with friends like that he would have seen some economic troubles on the horizon.

I'd love to know what he meant the other day when he spurted something about us needing immigration reform, since he tried to use that against McCain during the primaries.

He is firmly on several sides of every issue.

[trey4sports]

Thank you for reading the whole thing. I thought it might be a situation similar to when Mitt wrote the New York Times piece about allowing the auto companies to go bankrupt and so many people only read the title and didn't understand that it was actually advice on how to make the Big Three competitive again.

Those are valid points of disagreement except for complaining about what Mitt omitted. Mitt can't tackle every topic with every article that someone else writes about him. Think about the standard you are holding him to. No one can completely control what others write about them...

i agree, however the whole article seems vague. he must change his whole demeaner and platform for me (while i cant speak for everyone, i will) and the Ron Paul revolution to support him. He must talk about abolishing the FED, ending the war, and be sincere. we have no tolerance for anything but absolute truth and sincerity, we sniff out bullshit terms like "modernizing regulation" regulation is regulation is regulation, we dont regulation, modern or primitive, its all bullshit

[RP4EVER]

Romneys a party hack...................he'll never talk of abolishing the Fed....unless the grassroots takes back the party......then we'll hear it ad nauseam

[rockandrollsouls]

You must understand many of us here are not willing to compromise on the concept of freedom and liberty. This is why you will find so many vehemently against the rank-n-file, neo party establishment.

I personally don't believe Romney is even sufficient....but this is not a knock to your man. The greater question is, "Why nominate Romney when Paul is much more of a staunch conservative?" Ron has Mitt beat in every area in conservatism, so why should "conservatives" compromise with a lesser man in Mitt? It is not like they are equals and we are trying to choose based on personality and electability. Ron is arguably the best definition of Conservatism.

[John of Des Moines]

You might be right, but I was having this discussion at Committedtoromney with some Ron Paul supporters and asked them how they knew Mitt was for sure because I didn't know for sure. They just posted a link to the CFR website of a profile of Mitt on the site and said that was proof, so I looked at the site and Ron Paul has a profile on the site as well, and I'm pretty sure Ron Paul isn't a member. Is there a news article somewhere or something that indicates that Mitt actually is a CFR member?

Mitt wouldn't get an article published in the CFR rag "Foreign Affairs" without a little help from his friends: http://www.foreignaffairs.org/articles/62638/mitt-romney/rising-to-a-new-generation-of-global-challenges (http://www.foreignaffairs.org/articles/62638/mitt-romney/rising-to-a-new-generation-of-global-challenges). Mitt believes in globalism. Yes, he's got a great politician smile but no substance other then the CFR controlled media to prop him up. And the hope of being in on the final kill of the US and her Constitution so he can go down in the annuals of NWO history.

[Dan Chisholm]

{Romney'll} never talk of abolishing the Fed....unless the grassroots takes back the party......then we'll hear it ad nauseam

While I'm not sure if I agree that Romney will never talk about abolishing the Fed, I definitely agree that the grassroots needs to take back the party. I admire Ron Paul so much more for trying to reform the Republican Party as opposed to splintering it and creating/strengthening a 3rd Party. However, if McCain had won or if we get another candidate like McCain in 2012, it might be too late to save the Republican Party and a 3rd Party might be our best course of action for the future. I'd much rather reform the Republican Party though, because I want to take back our country NOW.


he greater question is, "Why nominate Romney when Paul is much more of a staunch conservative?" Ron has Mitt beat in every area in conservatism, so why should "conservatives" compromise with a lesser man in Mitt? It is not like they are equals and we are trying to choose based on personality and electability.

I honestly believe Ron Paul is looking for someone to take the torch from him to continue to C4L. I don't think Ron Paul wants to run again, and it's understandable considering the way he gets treated and his age (although him and Romney both are in outstanding shape for their ages probably because of their lifestyles).

[Johnnybags]

While I'm not sure if I agree that Romney will never talk about abolishing the Fed, I definitely agree that the grassroots needs to take back the party. I admire Ron Paul so much more for trying to reform the Republican Party as opposed to splintering it and creating/strengthening a 3rd Party. However, if McCain had won or if we get another candidate like McCain in 2012, it might be too late to save the Republican Party and a 3rd Party might be our best course of action for the future. I'd much rather reform the Republican Party though, because I want to take back our country NOW.



I honestly believe Ron Paul is looking for someone to take the torch from him to continue to C4L. I don't think Ron Paul wants to run again, and it's understandable considering the way he gets treated and his age (although him and Romney both are in outstanding shape for their ages probably because of their lifestyles).

ax Mitt. He is not a Republican, he is a corporate fascist and would take the same bailout course Bush and Obama took. He is the business roundtable, chamber of commerce poster boy we can do without.

[No1ButPaul08]

Dan, no offense, but how anyone can see and hear Romney and believe anything he says is beyond me. The guy is a CREEP.

If Mitt Romney ran on Ron Paul's exact platform I still wouldn't vote for him. The only conviction Mitt has is getting elected.

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

A Romney supporter could say:

No offense, but how anyone can see and hear Paul and believe anything he says is beyond me. The guy is a CREEP.

If Ron Paul ran on Mitt Romney's exact platform I still wouldn't vote for him. The guy is a fringe loony. Yuck!

The Romney supporter could also say that Ron Paul is being unrealistic and that Romney is being more honest by recognizing the need to compromise when working within a democratic republic.

[acptulsa]

The Romney supporter could also say that Ron Paul is being unrealistic and that Romney is being more honest by recognizing the need to compromise when working within a democratic republic.

True. But it's a different world from last spring, and I do believe more people every day are seeing not ony the true value of principle, but the complete lack thereof in D.C. That gives our man an advantage he didn't enjoy last spring.

[Lord Xar]

A Romney supporter could say:


The Romney supporter could also say that Ron Paul is being unrealistic and that Romney is being more honest by recognizing the need to compromise when working within a democratic republic.

That is not true. You can't compromise the constitution, or the bill of rights. All one would have to do is look at policies and voting records. Look at who associates with who etc...

The same thing can't be said because the basis is completely different from which the original springs.

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

True. But it's a different world from last spring, and I do believe more people every day are seeing not ony the true value of principle, but the complete lack thereof in D.C. That gives our man an advantage he didn't enjoy last spring.

The question is, which sorts of principle? Our previous president maintained strong, unwavering principles on the use of centralized power to combat radical extremism and firmly believed in the life-saving value of preemptive warfare. Why is an uncompromising George Bush less than an uncompromising Ron Paul?

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

That is not true. You can't compromise the constitution, or the bill of rights.

Hi,

If one cannot compromise on the Constitution, then why is there a debate between "originalist" constitutionalists and, "living document" constitutionalists?

Sincerely,
Omphfullas Zamboni

[devil21]

The question is, which sorts of principle? Our previous president maintained strong, unwavering principles on the use of centralized power to combat radical extremism and firmly believed in the life-saving value of preemptive warfare. Why is an uncompromising George Bush less than an uncompromising Ron Paul?

Because Bush was wrong and people knew it, hence his terrible approval ratings. Obama is continuing the same wrong policies and people are starting to see that too. His approval numbers are starting to fall. Principles alone isn't the issue. You can have some pretty crappy principles!

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

Because Bush was wrong and people knew it, hence his terrible approval ratings. Obama is continuing the same wrong policies and people are starting to see that too. His approval numbers are starting to fall. Principles alone isn't the issue. You can have some pretty crappy principles!

There is truth to that. In a contest of ideologies, I wonder if military curtailment and the marketplace witticism that the freedom to succeed means the freedom to fail will ever have the floor, amongst the general populace...

[Dan Chisholm]

That is not true. You can't compromise the constitution, or the bill of rights. All one would have to do is look at policies and voting records.

Someone may have already answered this, but can someone refresh my memory as to how Romney has ever compromised the Constitution or the Bill of Rights?

[Bryan]

Someone may have already answered this, but can someone refresh my memory as to how Romney has ever compromised the Constitution or the Bill of Rights?

Certainly with his background serving in state government it is harder to violate but I am sure someone will chime in soon.

None-the-less, it was clear that his presidential campaign platform had many violations, a very simple and very bad one is the idea of a national ID card.

I'll leave it at this- and let others post more.

[westmich4paul]

During the primaries I had the fortune of having a Ron Paul for President booth at a local gun show in Mitt's home state of MI. We had a group of all volunteers. The only other candidate that had another booth there was Mitt Romney's campaign. We went over and had a very nice conversation with the two college age kids attending the booth. At the end of our conversation I asked one of the young men if they were being paid or volunteering their time to Mitt's Campaign. They just smirked and told us they could not divulge that information, but the look on their faces gave me the answer I already knew.

[Bryan]

During the primaries I had the fortune of having a Ron Paul for President booth at a local gun show in Mitt's home state of MI. We had a group of all volunteers. The only other candidate that had another booth there was Mitt Romney's campaign. We went over and had a very nice conversation with the two college age kids attending the booth. At the end of our conversation I asked one of the young men if they were being paid or volunteering their time to Mitt's Campaign. They just smirked and told us they could not divulge that information, but the look on their faces gave me the answer I already knew.

That was pretty much the case at the Iowa Straw Poll. Some of the Mitt people did come over to the Ron Paul area and pick up some literature however.

[No1ButPaul08]

Someone may have already answered this, but can someone refresh my memory as to how Romney has ever compromised the Constitution or the Bill of Rights?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIRlNUqEdlU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQH8jDoLoV8

[nc4rp]

nice try...... but no we will not lend you our support heheh.

[dr. hfn]

10th Amendment and separation of powers has been destroyed. we have a unitary executive. the states are puppets. we are rome ans we are devolving into an empire, republican ideals and liberty are no longer valued. romney won't change this, we will

[Joe3113]

Someone may have already answered this, but can someone refresh my memory as to how Romney has ever compromised the Constitution or the Bill of Rights?

He Supports PATRIOT Act - Breaks 1st amendment and 4th amendment

He Supported the Bush Bailout - Breaks General Welfare Clause

He Supported Iraq War - No Declaration of War

He Supports the Federal Reserve - Only gold and silver can be money

You want me to go on?

[Dequeant]

Hello everyone,

I have been coming to this site on and off with different login names for a couple years now. I am a huge political junkie and I try to stay informed about what all of the potential candidate's supporters are doing. That said, I am an avid Romney supporter and certainly one of the most influential Romney grassroots supporters.

I have a couple of messages for all of you in regards to a few things.

1. In regards to the NPR March Madness poll, I want to congratulate all of you on winning the battle in such a convincing manner. We knew we couldn't beat all of you in a wide-open war, so we lulled you to sleep and gambled as to when the poll would end. If it had ended at midnight on the 29th, we would've won, but alas our gamble didn't pay off and you all took the day. We do have more support than you give us credit for, and though my various accounts on Facebook, I was able to send out thousands of messages about the poll.

2. As far as who started the cheating, my fellow Romney supporters and I were convinced that ya'll started the botting first, and I guess we'll never know, but there was a time during the early part of the poll where Romney had been winning legitimately and then Ron Paul shot up very fast. Speaking for myself, I never even knew how to spam polls (but I was always curious), and I came on this forum to see if I could somehow learn how it is done. I found a few posts telling different ways to do it and I couldn't help but try to see if it really worked since I had been wondering for years. I admit I got a bit carried away with it, and I apologize for that.

3. There are no hard feelings about the poll itself since both sides thought they were retaliating to cheating and ultimately, you all won. Also, we admire your grassroots machine and we wish we had even half of the organization as you. I tried to put together a mass fundraising day last year and was able to raise a grand total of just over $100,000 but that is dwarfed in comparison to your huge money bombs. My major problem is that I don't know how to harvest E-Mails and I'm not very good at making websites or YouTube videos.

4. There are a few common attacks that Ron Paulites make about Mitt Romney that I want to address. First, as one of the largest Mitt Romney grassroots supporters on the net, I don't like it when people claim that I or any of my fellow supporters are being paid to support Mitt. I definitely don't get a dime for any of the countless hours of work I do for Mitt. Next, I was at CPAC this year and there was nothing shady whatsoever with the straw poll. There were no "buses of mormons" coming from Utah for the vote or anything else like that. Also, Mitt's speech was the mist highly attended and it was very apparent he had the most support of anyone on the ballot there (I went to Ron Paul's campaign for liberty event as well). Also, during one of the debates, a lot was made about Romney having an earpiece and getting answers to questions that way. That could not be true because if a microphone was able to pick up the audio coming from an earpiece, Mitt Romney's eardrum would have exploded so it was have come from one of the moderators or candidates on stage. Finally, I am not Mormon or a neo-con. Most supporters of Mitt that I know are neither. We don't view Mitt as anything near to McCain when it comes to wanting to fight wars. I don't believe Mitt would've sent us to war with Iraq if he had been president instead of Bush, but I obviously have no proof for that.

5. I also like a lot of Ron Paul's ideas, but when I was looking for a candidate during the spring of 2007, I heard Ron Paul say he didn't plan on winning and wasn't really even trying to. I also could see from the type of campaign Huckabee was running that he wasn't putting together the appropriate groundwork to signify how serious he was. Therefore, I liked having them in the debates, but I couldn't throw my support behind them because I view there as being a huge difference between a candidate like Mitt Romney and a Obama. I know a lot of you do not agree, but if Mitt can do for the entire country what he did in Mass. we will all be in such better shape than we are. Graduating valedictorian of his class at Harvard is insane, and the amount of money he was able to make by creating his own company at Bain is astounding. Mitt wasn't able to do that because of his daddy or anything either. Mitt is a self-made man to be sure which is another ridiculous charge made against Mitt.

6. Finally, I hope you all can agree that this last poll was the most interesting and competitive online poll you've been in. I hope that you all had as much fun as we did, and I am completely earnest and sincere when I say that there are many issues that our two camps can agree on and I would be honored to fight along side with you in the many battles we will fight together in the future.

P.S. if you are wondering what some of those battles are, I support many of the candidates like Rand Paul and Peter Schiff that I know you all support in 2010. I also would love to see Ron Paul as governor of Texas. Anyway, please feel free at anytime to let me know how my fellow Mittheads and I can assist you all. We are in some very dark days right now, but if we focus on where we agree, together, we can make America's future brighter.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1260660082 is my facebook account and probably the easiest way to contact me.

Wait a sec, Mitt Romney was in that poll? :rolleyes:

Mitt wasn't bad, but I couldn't vote for someone who would answer, when asked if the president had the power to go to war without a declaration from congress.......that he would "consult with my lawyers". No thanks, another rich tool in the white house I don't need.

OH YEA. Speaking as one person who DID attend the Florida Straw Poll, I can honestly say that 15 Mitt Romney supporters did manage to outvote over 600 Ron Paul supporters and win the poll. I sat and watched one female Romney supporter vote over 100 times all by herself. I voted once then, and I voted once on the NPR poll........if you don't like losing, don't blame it on cheating......how about pick someone with a better platform to support.

[revolutionisnow]

I got 99 excuses but the truth aint one

[Dan Chisholm]

He Supports PATRIOT Act - Breaks 1st amendment and 4th amendment

He Supported the Bush Bailout - Breaks General Welfare Clause

He Supported Iraq War - No Declaration of War

He Supports the Federal Reserve - Only gold and silver can be money

You want me to go on?

With the Bush bailout, that is very debatable because of how Mitt explains it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nvRHYB_BtM and kind of here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-Xwa2w6gr8 He didn't support the bailout of individual companies as I'm sure you all know now, but he did support government intervention to stop the inevitable collapse of the dollar. I agree that the government has made HUGE mistakes in regards to TARP, but Mitt didn't support those mistakes.

As for the Iraq War, it would be news to me if anyone can find any proof of Mitt Romney supporting the war in Iraq before we sent our troops there. It is my understanding and I can find clip after clip that Mitt Romney supported finishing the job, but he seemed to always avoid answering if he would go into Iraq if he was president instead of GWB. I think the war would have been far different and may have never happened if Mitt had been president.

Does it say somewhere in constitution that only gold and silver can be money? Also, as I said before, the only times I hear Mitt talk about the Fed, he is very critical, but I admit I have never heard him ask for it to be eliminated.

[acptulsa]

Does it say somewhere in constitution that only gold and silver can be money?


Says the states can coin nothing else, indicating they can't issue paper money. Otherwise, no.

[Danke]

Does it say somewhere in constitution that only gold and silver can be money?

Many threads here on that subject.

Constitutional lawyer Edwin Vieira popular in the RP movement thinks so:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/VieraTexasLawReview.pdf

[pcosmar]

It is my understanding and I can find clip after clip that Mitt Romney supported finishing the job, but he seemed to always avoid answering if he would go into Iraq if he was president instead of GWB. I think the war would have been far different and may have never happened if Mitt had been president.
.

He was supporting a First Strike , Nuclear Strike against Iran during the debates.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1336/541676694_0a43e75575.jpg?v=0

It is Totally unacceptable :(

[erowe1]

Why is this debate even going on? Mitt Romney is not and never has been an advocate for smaller, less meddlesome, less expensive government. Obama's health care plan is fashioned after the one Mitt personally championed for Massachusetts. Look back at the National Taxpayers Union study of the GOP presidential candidates for 2008. Mitt proposed a net increase, not decrease, in all federal spending. This included all kinds of increases in foreign intervention, doubling the size of Gitmo, as well as major corporate welfare (Mitt's personal favorite use for the government) and more federal involvement in education and job training. Overall, Mitt's spending increases added up to twice as much as McCain's (though not nearly as much as Huckabee's). Ron Paul was the only one who favored serious cuts in spending.

I could almost, almost, understand why a lot of relatively conservative people supported Romney in 2008. They just couldn't stomach the thought of either Huckabee of McCain. But let's face it, conservatives were not happy with the whole field in 2008, so going with Romney was a matter of being stuck with someone. Now that we get to start from scratch, there's no reason whatsoever that so many conservative (-ish) people should think that Romney is their ideal candidate for 2012. The only reason he polls so well is that these folks have no imagination and so they instinctively stick with the loser they got stuck with in 2008.

And what is this garbage about wanting to "finish the job" in Iraq? There is no finishing the job. There is only repeatedly moving the goal posts so that there's always a new reason for continuing to spend money on it. Does anybody think that we'll somehow eventually reach a state of things in Iraq where we can pull out all troops and leave behind a pro-America nation that will stay that way indefinitely in our absence? The notion is and always was absurd.

[Joe3113]

He also needs to apologise to Ron Paul for his comments on that Radio show.

Then he needs to make a minimum 500 thousand dollar contribution to Campaign For Liberty.

Then he needs to support ending the FED.

Then maybe we can forgive.

[Dan Chisholm]

He was supporting a First Strike , Nuclear Strike against Iran during the debates.

You may be misunderstanding him. He said that he didn't want to publicly take anything off the table and the main reason why I believe he said that is because it gives us more leverage during negotiations. I don't think for a second that Mitt would ever authorize a nuclear strike against a country like Iran, but I like his strategy which is very similar to his strategy when it comes to torture. He never answered if water boarding was torture not because he didn't have an opinion but because he wants to give terrorists something else to think about. Mitt answered the question when he said he doesn't support torture if you can read between the lines though.


Why is this debate even going on? Mitt Romney is not and never has been an advocate for smaller, less meddlesome, less expensive government.

I guess it's a good thing the debate is going on because Mitt most certainly is for smaller and less meddlesome/less expensive government.

[Johnnybags]

You may be misunderstanding him. He said that he didn't want to publicly take anything off the table and the main reason why I believe he said that is because it gives us more leverage during negotiations. I don't think for a second that Mitt would ever authorize a nuclear strike against a country like Iran, but I like his strategy which is very similar to his strategy when it comes to torture. He never answered if water boarding was torture not because he didn't have an opinion but because he wants to give terrorists something else to think about. Mitt answered the question when he said he doesn't support torture if you can read between the lines though.



I guess it's a good thing the debate is going on because Mitt most certainly is for smaller and less meddlesome/less expensive government.

and for the FED. The FED exists to increase government thru the inflation tax. Mitt is all about that tax he knows all too well. Tell him to campaign to abolish the FED then we will talk. Closest thing Mitt had to a printing press was the Mass Lottery(the biggest bohemoth in the nation) which he expanded immensely to guess what, fund big gubmint.

[angelatc]

I guess it's a good thing the debate is going on because Mitt most certainly is for smaller and less meddlesome/less expensive government.

You can only say that if we ignore his record and instead rely only on platitudes, which is something we're not really very good at around here.

But if you talk to him, ask him what he meant earlier this month when he mentioned that we needed to address immigration reform before it got demagogued in the election cycle. I found that pretty tasty, especially after he ragged McCain so hard over that very issue.

[pcosmar]

I'm a Paul Supporter and I Have a Message for You

I am an Independent Voter.
I guarantee that I will oppose Mitt Romney at any attempt to run for office.
He has a dismal record and a history of flip flops. There is no way that I can not oppose him. He is a perfect example of what is wrong with this country.

I don't really care what lies he comes up with next.

[Pennsylvania]

How about this: OP peace offering accepted, now if we want any more information on Mitt Romney we will simply join his forum or search for it.

[orafi]

op, come back here when the idea of the liberty of the individual interests romney and not just cash money.

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

You folks are harsh. This guy is not obligated to defend Romney's questionable choices. Much respect to the OP, for the reach-out.

[Dan Chisholm]

What does OP stand for?

Also, Mitt never changed his mind about immigration. He just said we should get something done now so it doesn't become such a polarizing and political issue a few years from now. Mitt still doesn't support amnesty. I don't know Ron Paul's views on it, but Mitt wants sanctuary cities to be eliminated and to crack down on employers who hire illegals. Mitt doesn't plan to or think it's even feasible to round up 12 million + illegal immigrants and send them home. He just knows that if they cannot find jobs, many of the will go home on their own.

[LittleLightShining]

What does OP stand for?

Also, Mitt never changed his mind about immigration. He just said we should get something done now so it doesn't become such a polarizing and political issue a few years from now. Mitt still doesn't support amnesty. I don't know Ron Paul's views on it, but Mitt wants sanctuary cities to be eliminated and to crack down on employers who hire illegals. Mitt doesn't plan to or think it's even feasible to round up 12 million + illegal immigrants and send them home. He just knows that if they cannot find jobs, many of the will go home on their own.OP= Original Post or Original Poster

[nc4rp]

what does op stand for?

Also, mitt never changed his mind about immigration. He just said we should get something done now so it doesn't become such a polarizing and political issue a few years from now. Mitt still doesn't support amnesty. I don't know ron paul's views on it, but mitt wants sanctuary cities to be eliminated and to crack down on employers who hire illegals. Mitt doesn't plan to or think it's even feasible to round up 12 million + illegal immigrants and send them home. He just knows that if they cannot find jobs, many of the will go home on their own.



give it up. lol.

[nc4rp]

What does OP stand for?

Also, Mitt never changed his mind about immigration. He just said we should get something done now so it doesn't become such a polarizing and political issue a few years from now. Mitt still doesn't support amnesty. I don't know Ron Paul's views on it, but Mitt wants sanctuary cities to be eliminated and to crack down on employers who hire illegals. Mitt doesn't plan to or think it's even feasible to round up 12 million + illegal immigrants and send them home. He just knows that if they cannot find jobs, many of the will go home on their own.


actually romney got busted with a bunch of illegals working on his estate and here you are saying that he wants to crack down on people who hire illegals? lol.




http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/121x18_newsBlogs.gif
local news updates (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/)

updated
Wednesday, 12:44 PM

From the Metro staff at The Boston Globe

Lawn work at Romney's home still done by illegal immigrants
December 4, 2007 06:54 PM Email (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow%28%27http://tools.boston.com/pass-it-on?story_url=http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2007/12/lawn_work_at_ro.html%27,%27mailit%27,%27scrollbars ,resizable,width=770,height=450%27%29;)| Comments (0) (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2007/12/lawn_work_at_ro.html#comments)| Text size – +

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/saenz.jpg
(Globe Photo)
Ricardo Saenz, owner of the company that employed illegal immigrants, worked on Romney's lawn recently.
By Maria Cramer and Maria Sacchetti, Globe Staff; and Connie Paige, Globe Correspondent
Standing on stage at a Republican debate on the Gulf Coast of Florida last week, Mitt Romney repeatedly lashed out at rival Rudy Giuliani for providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants in New York City.
Yet, the very next morning, on Thursday, at least two illegal immigrants stepped out of a hulking maroon pickup truck in the driveway of Romney's Belmont house, then proceeded to spend several hours raking leaves, clearing debris from Romney's tennis court, and loading the refuse back on to the truck.
In fact, their work was part of a regular pattern. Despite a Globe story (http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/candidates/articles/2006/12/01/illegal_immigrants_toiled_for_governor/) in Dec. 2006 that highlighted Romney's use of illegal immigrants to tend to his lawn, Romney continued to employ the same landscaping company -- until today. The landscaping company, in turn, continued to employ illegal immigrants.

Two of the workers confirmed in separate interviews with Globe reporters last week that they were in the country without documents. One said he had paid $7,000 to a smuggler to escort him across the desert into Arizona; the other said he had come to the country with a student visa that was now expired. Both were seen on the lawn by either Globe reporters or photographers over the last two months.

Questioned this afternoon during two campaign stops in New Hampshire about the use of illegal immigrants on his property, Romney declined to answer. An aide said he would issue a statement, and Romney, emerging from a Concord restaurant, said, "Did you hear him? We'll give you a statement."

Later, the campaign issued a statement saying Romney had just learned -- apparently from Globe reporters -- of the company's continued practice of employing illegal immigrants, and immediately fired it.
"After this same issue arose last year, I gave the company a second chance with very specific conditions," Romney said in the statement. "They were instructed to make sure people working for the company were of legal status. We personally met with the company in order to inform them about the importance of this matter. The owner of the company guaranteed us, in very certain terms, that the company would be in total compliance with the law going forward.

"The company's failure to comply with the law is disappointing and inexcusable, and I believe it is important I take this action," Romney said.

For Romney, who has made curtailing illegal immigration a cornerstone of his presidential campaign, the revelation that he continued to employ the same landscaping company was likely to fuel criticism from his rivals, at least one of whom -- Giuliani -- has already mocked Romney's commitment to the issue on the trail.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2007/12/lawn_work_at_ro.html

[torchbearer]

oops.

[ronpaulhawaii]

actually romney got busted with a bunch of illegals working on his estate and here you are saying that he wants to crack down on people who hire illegals? lol.





http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2007/12/lawn_work_at_ro.html (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2007/12/lawn_work_at_ro.html)

lulz - this one might hurt, Dan. I'll be watching for a response...

[nbhadja]

What does OP stand for?

Also, Mitt never changed his mind about immigration. He just said we should get something done now so it doesn't become such a polarizing and political issue a few years from now. Mitt still doesn't support amnesty. I don't know Ron Paul's views on it, but Mitt wants sanctuary cities to be eliminated and to crack down on employers who hire illegals. Mitt doesn't plan to or think it's even feasible to round up 12 million + illegal immigrants and send them home. He just knows that if they cannot find jobs, many of the will go home on their own.

Go look at Mitt's VOTING RECORD. He SUPPORTS AMNESTY!

And he even says it!

"THOSE OLD Republican hot buttons are growing cold. For proof, check out a recent interview with Mitt Romney, a former presidential candidate and ex-governor of Massachusetts.

According to TheHill.com, a congressional newspaper that publishes when Congress is in session, "Romney believes that one way to attract more minorities to the GOP is to pass immigration reform before the next election, saying the issue becomes demagogued by both parties on the campaign trail." The article also quotes Romney as saying, "We have a natural affinity with Hispanic-American voters, Asian-American voters." "

He is pandering as usual. What a liberal.

[Catatonic]

Is Dan still with us? If so, kudos. You must be a glutton for punishment :)

[torchbearer]

Is Dan still with us? If so, kudos. You must be a glutton for punishment :)

Or he really believes Mitt is on honest guy who is best for our country and that he just needs to show us the light. :D

[nc4rp]

i mean if you cant control whats going on in your own front yard....

[Dan Chisholm]

i mean if you cant control whats going on in your own front yard....

I didn't think that was worth responding to, but a lot of you seem to seriously think Mitt should investigate the companies that work on his lawn and actually check identification or something before he allow them to do work. Who does that?...oh right, no one because companies would never subject their workers to that. Mitt did as much as anyone can do in that situation by telling the company how important it was to him that the workers not be illegal. The business lied to Mitt, and I want to know what else Mitt realistically could have done (if you are thinking of saying Mitt should do the yardwork himself, please don't waste your time. There is nothing inherently wrong with someone as busy and public-service oriented as Mitt hiring out his yardwork).

[JS4Pat]

The only thing I'll say is that Mitt wasn't as bad as Rudy. :D

That is the best I can do as well.

[Bruno]

Hey, Dan - Did Mitt supporters spam the CNN poll last week?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=189584&highlight=cnn+poll+ron&page=9

[JS4Pat]

romney, giuliani, mccain and fred thompson did. By their fruits you will know. That was the biggest pile of horse shit i've ever seen in a presidential campaign, and it happened repeatedly, so don't try to explain it away as a one-time occurrance. Any sort who would resort to that nonsense simply isn't presidential material. They were the elitists snobs of the campaign and acted as such throughout the campaign.

"congressman paul...concerning electability, sir...do you have any?" [giggle, chortle, hee-haw, ha-ha]. What a bunch of tools. No chance they get my vote for dog catcher, much less potus.

Bosso

+1 - exactly...

[angelatc]

I didn't think that was worth responding to, but a lot of you seem to seriously think Mitt should investigate the companies that work on his lawn and actually check identification or something before he allow them to do work. Who does that?...oh right, no one because companies would never subject their workers to that. Mitt did as much as anyone can do in that situation by telling the company how important it was to him that the workers not be illegal. The business lied to Mitt, and I want to know what else Mitt realistically could have done (if you are thinking of saying Mitt should do the yardwork himself, please don't waste your time. There is nothing inherently wrong with someone as busy and public-service oriented as Mitt hiring out his yardwork).

LMAO! If he thinks landscapers lie, wait until he gets meets real politicians! Oh, wait.....

If he isn't responsible for what goes on in his own house, then why exactly should we believe he should be responsible for what goes in in my house?

Sorry, but if he can't run a simple estate, he certainly can't run a country.

[nc4rp]

i mean if you cant control whats going on in your own front yard....



I didn't think that was worth responding to, but a lot of you seem to seriously think Mitt should investigate the companies that work on his lawn and actually check identification or something before he allow them to do work. Who does that?...oh right, no one because companies would never subject their workers to that. Mitt did as much as anyone can do in that situation by telling the company how important it was to him that the workers not be illegal. The business lied to Mitt, and I want to know what else Mitt realistically could have done (if you are thinking of saying Mitt should do the yardwork himself, please don't waste your time. There is nothing inherently wrong with someone as busy and public-service oriented as Mitt hiring out his yardwork).

:( omg its this very failure to understand the logical underpinnings of the sarcasm pouring off my previous statement that makes me just want to give up on the world and stick my head in the sand.

-or- using the word "idiot" a LOT on the internet forums helps relieve the tension a little i have found. :p

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

This thread has run its course. Voluntarily, please, let the conversation close.

Thank you.

Regards,
Omphfullas Zamboni

[Dan Chisholm]

Hey, Dan - Did Mitt supporters spam the CNN poll last week?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=189584&highlight=cnn+poll+ron&page=9

No

Also, feel free to send me PMs or make new topics to catch my attention since Omphfullas Zamboni wants this topic to close.

[Mattsa]

That was a respectful and nice message, Dan.

I agree with you that some of the supporters probably agree on a lot. But, to be honest with you, I don't think Mitt holds the principles that you seem to believe he does.

I deeply sympathise with anyone who supports Mitt Romney

He is a horrible man

[anaconda]

Mitt "I think we should double Guantanamo" Romney. What a tool. Good little NWO yes man.