The Shock Doctrine

[Manible]

The director of Children of Men created this short film.

Intro to a book (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kieyjfZDUIc)

[Manible]

Let me bump this. You neo-liberals need to understand what you're propagating.

[katao]

The basic principle of the movie is right (governments use shock to soften us up for change), but this is anti-market propaganda as well.

Milton Friedman wasn't perfect, but his free market ideas were FAR better than the Keysian economics of the first 75 years of the 20th century. "Secret history of the free market?" - come on! That's BS. Ever hear of Adam Smith?

[Dustancostine]

Yea the shock principle is true. But it is not being used by Capitalist but by Fascist. Fascism is hiding behind Capitalism to try and go undetected. The only moral economic philosophy is lassiez-faire capitalism. Not socialism like the movie would have you believe.

[nullvalu]

Yep this was already posted here. It's nothing more than socialist propaganda... Cleverly disguised though..

[lucius]

It is good to watch, the bullshit comes from the left and the right...'Utopian Dreamers' are humorous...left or right, it is still all about control.

[Manible]

The basic principle of the movie is right (governments use shock to soften us up for change), but this is anti-market propaganda as well.

Milton Friedman wasn't perfect, but his free market ideas were FAR better than the Keysian economics of the first 75 years of the 20th century. "Secret history of the free market?" - come on! That's BS. Ever hear of Adam Smith?

"Only crisis, actual of perceived, produces real change." --Milton Friedman

In the US, since the beginning of the Government, the only move left to a more civilised society was one of sharing. The framers actually planned for this with the passages on taxation, that direct taxes must be redistributed equally.

Laissez-faire capitalism is a terrible idea, private security forces are poorly regulated and very brutal. I've been beaten up by a bouncer, never by a policeman. Blackwater, the private army in Iraq was recently banned from operating there, finally, by the way, they're a waste of money, the US army was far far far more efficient. You can read all the horror stories of soldiers having to deal with private citizens. Another good one, the largest growing industry in the country are prisons. One such owner went so far as to suggest that we build prisons in Mexico because it's cheaper. Had the Mexican government believed in laissez-faire Capitalism they would have jumped at the opportunity to import American criminals. Lobbyists from these hugely successful prison industries have been pushing for more and more jail-able offenses that way. The other things that you people are suggesting, such as the abolition of professional licensing is ridiculous. The people of America fought very hard for that protection. People were getting ripped off left and right, and these scam artists were getting very little punishment when caught.

Our medical practitioners are among the best in the world, although the most expensive. If we ended licensing, doctors with real college degrees would get the fuck out as fast as possible, and road show exhibitions peddling useless drugs would be back in a new form. No one would come to the USA for treatment ever again. Maybe medical schools would acquire licenses for their students from Europe or Canada.

Imagine what would happen if we privatized our courts, and got rid of public lawyers.

Better, imagine what would happen with all those bullshit lawsuits if there wasn't any licensing laws protection doctors, who are already being sued for bullshit already.

[Dustancostine]

I've been beaten up by a bouncer, never by a policeman.

Today of all days you are defending the police. :rolleyes:

LOL at you.

BTW: I am not going to give shit to you. Its not sharing when you steal it from me.

[ctb619]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rajiva/rajiva8.html

This article has some good commentary on the "Shock Doctrine"

[Manible]

Today of all days you are defending the police. :rolleyes:

LOL at you.

BTW: I am not going to give shit to you. Its not sharing when you steal it from me.

If you know anyone who's been out drinking, you could imagine. Poll your friends find out how many have been visciously treated by a boucer as opposed to a cop.

I'm not suggesting I steal from you. If we both couldn't afford to get an appartment on our own we'd go in as room mates and split the bills. I think there should be protections like that for all people. As it stands now if someone in your family becomes seriously ill, you might go into financial ruin, and bankruptcy laws have been changed to be harder on middle class individuals. It's still simple as ever for rich corporations, but nevermind that. Dustan, I think you're a cool guy, and I would not want you unable to recieve proper medical care, and I would gladly loose a percentage of my wages for that purpose, especially if I know that I'm also protected.

[Dustancostine]

I would willing die, before I forced you to pay for one penny of my medical care.

[Manible]

I would willing die, before I forced you to pay for one penny of my medical care.

Haha, I wouldn't have to be coerced, it's generosity, I assume you donate to charity? Did you donate to Ron Paul's campaign? I think it's silly that so many right wingers donate a large portion of their money to charities, leave huge tips to waitresses, but would go completely crazy if a tax were imposed the money of which went to the same single mother.

Unless, of course, the soul purpose of donating money was to get a tax write off.

[Dustancostine]

Taxes aren't charity, taxes are coercion. And the income tax is slavery. Charity is my choice, if I don't pay taxes they come after me with a gun.

[Manible]

Taxes aren't charity, taxes are coercion. And the income tax is slavery. Charity is my choice, if I don't pay taxes they come after me with a gun.

But other taxes, such as the road tax are very important. It's a social responsibility required to drive a car. Would you close down emergency rooms in the name of privatization?

The income tax is forced on you, and it isn't redistributed back to you in any tangible way. That is absolutely not a left-wing principle, the money is taken from the people and payed to a bank as it's payment for operation. (Privatized Federal money printing)

[Dustancostine]

But other taxes, such as the road tax are very important. It's a social responsibility required to drive a car. Would you close down emergency rooms in the name of privatization?

The income tax is forced on you, and it isn't redistributed back to you in any tangible way. That is absolutely not a left-wing principle, the money is taken from the people and payed to a bank as it's payment for operation. (Privatized Federal money printing)

Who implemented the income tax?
Thats right the liberal socialist.

And the gas tax is fine as long as the tax goes to road related projects. But to charge overage on the tax to pay for health care is morally irresponsible.

Government's one and only job is to protect liberty.

[LibertyBelle]

Haha, I wouldn't have to be coerced, it's generosity, I assume you donate to charity? Did you donate to Ron Paul's campaign? I think it's silly that so many right wingers donate a large portion of their money to charities, leave huge tips to waitresses, but would go completely crazy if a tax were imposed the money of which went to the same single mother.

Unless, of course, the soul purpose of donating money was to get a tax write off.

Sounds like you are stereotyping. :rolleyes: People should be able to keep their wages and decide where and who they want to donate to. Researching and deciding how/where to be charitable and generous should be the choice of each and every individual. I don't want bureaucrats deciding what to do with my hard earned money, and I don't want my money going to people that take advantage of the system. Tons of money gets squandered anyway, and the last people I trust my money with is big government politicians.

[Manible]

Who implemented the income tax?
Thats right the liberal socialist.

And the gas tax is fine as long as the tax goes to road related projects. But to charge overage on the tax to pay for health care is morally irresponsible.

Government's one and only job is to protect liberty.

That's not true, the income tax was pushed by rich bankers.

Here it comes to philosophical differences, I disagree that the government's one and only job is to protect liberty. The Patriot Act should have been disregarded as illegal if that was true. I would rather say the government's one and only job is to administrate and execute the will of the people. The Constitution's job is to protect the liberty of the minority (who is essentially, the guy who got fucked over). Democracy is like three wolves and a lamb decided what to have for dinner. There needs to be a thin line of bureaucracy defending the lamb or he's liable to be eaten, which is, obviously, bad for the utility.

[Manible]

Sounds like you are stereotyping. :rolleyes: People should be able to keep their wages and decide where and who they want to donate to. Researching and deciding how/where to be charitable and generous should be the choice of each and every individual. I don't want bureaucrats deciding what to do with my hard earned money, and I don't want my money going to people that take advantage of the system. Tons of money gets squandered anyway, and the last people I trust my money with is big government politicians.

I'm not, if you donate to charity out of your goodwill, you still take the tax write off. Some people donate for the soul purpose of getting the tax write off, they donate to any charity totally without research.

In a democracy, logically the people should be deciding where the money goes. If it was bureaucrats, I would be against that and argue we gave the government too much power.