Police officer forum response to the MIAC report. This needs some publicity

[Dripping Rain]

newbitech from our forum joined officer.com and posted this question at the beginning of the Missouri incident. I think we need to publicize this just to show the mentality of the morons on that forum who walk around with guns
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115613

if you think this is not important then please tell me why. the first poster there already edited his silly facist comment it seems

edit: Newbitech now posted the FPIAC parody pdf
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116969

[LibertyEagle]

Yeah DR, someone posted this early on. Pretty disturbing, eh? :(

[Dripping Rain]

Yeah DR, someone posted this early on. Pretty disturbing, eh? :(

truly disgusting. I think now with the news out in the papers this is a perfect chance to show how hypocritical and idiotic that forum is and to show other LEOs that they shouldnt follow the example of those facists. maybe they will start acting like rational adults. shall we post the link on news sites? on blogs?

[Dripping Rain]

bumpity

[newbitech]

that was me. I would engage in a discussion but it is prohibited on that forum. Only cops are allowed to post public responses in that forum. That alone tells me what to think about it. But anyways, I am free to engage in private discussion. So here is another one that I initiated there. I didn't push it because well, they are cops after all. I just want to know whats in their heads, not change it.

Cop
Forum Member

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: phoenix, az
Posts: 1,810


Re: is everyone a suspect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeCitizen
Quote:
If there is other stuff going on like this, don't those citizens who are NOT domestic terrorist have a right to know that Law Enforcement is targeting their groups because their may be terrorist activity occurring among them?



Quote:
IMO, no. This is the same excuse "legitimate" () bikers use when discussing their membership in an OMG. The fact is, is that as part of that group, you KNOW there are "bad apples" in the group and your status within the group is unknown, so why should LE automatically assume you're not in favor of that behavior? From a LE perspective it's inefficient & (more importantly) from a personal perspective, it can prove deadly.
It seems you're asking if it's "fair" LE"targets" (your word) 3rd Party candidates, when the fact(again) is these people have targeted Government (literally) which we have sworn to protect.
when you say that part of that group you know are bad apples, and my status is unknown, then why should LE automatically assume i'm not infavor of that behaviour.


me

Wouldn't you base your assumption on whether or not that person was breaking the law? What I hear you saying is that basically LE should assume everyone is a suspect. That seems rather paranoid to me. Especially if the idea is to look for suspicious activity withing the realm of political thought.

Also, I am not asking if anything is fair, only what evidence does LE have that people who support 3rd parties have tendency to be the ones who attack cops? Also, did you really swear to protect government? Please correct me if I am wrong but your duty is to protect citizens and uphold the constitution. Would you continue to defend government at the point noted below?

Quote:
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

-- Declaration of Independence, 1776
[/QUOTE


cop

AHHHHH, all good & fair questions!http://forums.officer.com/forums/images/smile.gif
THE GROUP is the "bad apple, not necessisarily the individual. But we're talking the real world here and the facts as they stand now,are that info is exchanged freely enough in this day & age that no reasonable LEO is going to assume a member of the group is ignorant of its actions and while you personally may not support the behavior, as a LEO there is absolutely no way of me knowing the extent of your support of the group. The fact is, my LE job is performed for my satisfaction & to support my family who relies on me. IMO, the one one rule I MUST obey is to come home at night. If that means I upset a person or two WHILE PERFORMING MY JOB LEGALLY, I make no apologies. Anyone in a similiar position would feel the same way, given the circumstances (i.e. job description, etc.).
As to evidence, pick a source, Govt., Southern Poverty Law Center, ACLU, whatever, and ask about the statistics regarding police assaults. While attacks from 3rd party groups, as you refer to them, may be small, thay are almost always very violent, if not initiated with weapons. This risk is simply too high & unacceptable to the average LEO to be complacent when contacting known 3rd Party elements. WHY? See the pargraph above. Personally, I'm not assuming "they" are breaking the law--- I simply don't know. I DO know, via statistics & prior contact & history, "they" have a greater propensity to break the law, especially when contacted by the police.
And in terms of protecting the "GOERNMENT", I'm a little more in line with your groups --- THE PEOPLE (you do remember the Constiuition?) are the government, via representation in Wa., not some stuffed shirt that is spouting out BS on television, so yes, I AM protecting the govt. by protecting its people.
You possibly consider LEOs paranoid-- I agree. But with the world as it is, and the obligations LEOs have to the public & themselves, I think it's a fair trade-off, given the relatively few contacts, here anyway, that occur. The paranoia you speak of is cumulative, IMO, & a price the officer is willing to pay for his job. This paranoia is no good to anyone as it wears on his health, angers the citizenry & often can be a career-shortening effect of the job.

As for the quote & your question, I do agree with it. But really, when you look at the U.S. compared to other countries, do you REALLY believe there has been a despot in the White House? You have the Right to join any group for any any cause & participate to any degree you want & vote your representatives into office. If your representative doesn't get voted in, that simply means not enough share your view, which IS the whole point of the democratic process. Has "The System" been tainted? IMO, yes. BUT if it is such a concern for any individual it is his Right & obligation to work that much harder (legally) to change it.
http://forums.officer.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://forums.officer.com/forums/images/buttons/forward.gif (http://forums.officer.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&forward=1&pmid=755618)

[JoshLowry]

Can you post a new thread that shows the FPIAC report? :)

[Dripping Rain]

that was me. I would engage in a discussion but it is prohibited on that forum. Only cops are allowed to post public responses in that forum. That alone tells me what to think about it. But anyways, I am free to engage in private discussion. So here is another one that I initiated there. I didn't push it because well, they are cops after all. I just want to know whats in their heads, not change it.

Cop
Forum Member

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: phoenix, az
Posts: 1,810


Re: is everyone a suspect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeCitizen
Quote:
If there is other stuff going on like this, don't those citizens who are NOT domestic terrorist have a right to know that Law Enforcement is targeting their groups because their may be terrorist activity occurring among them?





me


cop

http://forums.officer.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://forums.officer.com/forums/images/buttons/forward.gif (http://forums.officer.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&forward=1&pmid=755618)

thanks newbitech ill credit you in the op
did you notice how the first asshat deleted his comment on March 24th? after the lid was blown in the MSM. he probably doesnt find it funny now.

[Dripping Rain]

Can you post a new thread that shows the FPIAC report? :)

lmao. i think thats a good idea

[newbitech]

Can you post a new thread that shows the FPIAC report? :)

lol, gimme the linky I'll do it.

[JoshLowry]

lol, gimme the linky I'll do it.

Doc:

http://www.libertyforest.com/FPIAC.pdf

Front page image:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3436/3378748321_3516dc7de0_o.jpg

More images:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pcosmar/

[newbitech]

Doc:

http://www.libertyforest.com/FPIAC.pdf

Front page image:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3436/3378748321_3516dc7de0_o.jpg

More images:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pcosmar/


http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116969

[torchbearer]

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116969

Golden.

[acptulsa]

They seem to be leaving the response to the crickets.

[newbitech]

They seem to be leaving the response to the crickets.

nah give em some time. I think they will at least read the first page. Maybe they will read the rest. It will get lots of hits tho cause that forum is pretty active. Notice the activity of the other threads has died down a bit.

[JoshLowry]

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116969

Nicely done. :D

[dr. hfn]

bump! Someone must expose this!

[LibertyEagle]

lol, gimme the linky I'll do it.

RESPECT. That was beautifully worded. :)

[Paulitical Correctness]

To say you guys are paranoid and anti-police is like saying Hurricane Katrina was a bit of a rain storm.

All I have to say, respectfully, in the great words of NWA, is Fuck the police.

[Dripping Rain]

All I have to say, respectfully, in the great words of NWA, is Fuck the police.

lmao when someone makes that kind of irrational analogy you know what kind of crappy education they had
after reading that I feel like Im stupider now.

good job newbitech

[Paulitical Correctness]

Driving with a Hoodie/hoody can be detrimental to you. It affects your peripheral vision and auditory sensoring. If your head is cold, wear a hat or cap and be safe. Besides, having that thing pulled up over your head makes you look kind of like a "Gansta" and you might be up to no good. Don't draw attention to yourself if you don't want to be stopped and questioned.

That place is full of gems. I'm gonna have to refrain from visiting again though, as I like my normal blood pressure. :mad:

[Kludge]

"Apparently, the defendant had been wearing an aluminum hat to protect himself from our spy satellites. The officer, not having read the intelligence memo, failed to follow procedure of photograph, confiscate, turn into the property room. Instead, he through it into the trash. The defendant sued the officer for destruction of his property."

Lololololol

[newbitech]

hmmmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6QKcARdl2w&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9kPJ5o_pMs&feature=player_embedded

looks like the militia is also made up of socialist democrats with an entirely different agenda. go figure, constitution loving republicans aren't the only people who have a problem with the brutal police state.

I completely agree with what the young lady says about opening up a dialog with police. Unfortunately, as evidence by the officer.com forum, police officers aren't very forthcoming with their ideas and opinion, and the ones that are expressed pretty much reinforce the stereo type. And that is in the quasi-anonymous region of the internet, where people can still express opinions without fear of persecution.

Try having that conversation in public with the "peace keepers". I know I have and trust me, mentioning the Constitution and the protections we are supposed to enjoy by this document IS INDEED probable cause for resisting arrest w/o violence, which is apparently all a cop needs to further trump up charges so the prosecutor can threaten with felony ASSAULT ON A LEO. Cops bring it on themselves. I just hope they will take the olive branch while it is still being offered. Some of these guys have multiple M-4 and "illegal" AR-15 / M-16 cause its NOT illegal for law enforcement. Double standard, go figure.

[jcarcinogen]

The replies to the other questions in the "Ask A Cop" section are quite arrogant and disturbing.

[Kludge]

hmmmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6QKcARdl2w&feature=player_embedded

That's appalling...

[newbitech]

That's appalling...

do you think that the police should be afraid of groups like this? I think its pretty sad that Oakland Police are basically in a war with the citizens there. That is what disturbs me the most.

Imagine what kind of memo's are floating around that place that put innocent people in jeapordy. I guess the question becomes, "how should the police respond to this?"

I think Oakland needs to have a town hall meeting and let these people vent their concerns with all the officials present.

[tremendoustie]

do you think that the police should be afraid of groups like this? I think its pretty sad that Oakland Police are basically in a war with the citizens there. That is what disturbs me the most.

Imagine what kind of memo's are floating around that place that put innocent people in jeapordy. I guess the question becomes, "how should the police respond to this?"

I think Oakland needs to have a town hall meeting and let these people vent their concerns with all the officials present.

I'm quite certain that neither side is anywhere close to moral in this situation, and I'm not sure there will be an easy solution.

[He Who Pawns]

Does this surprise ANYONE?? How is this news??

Most cops are arrogant, and many are pricks. I applaud them for their bravery and service, but everyone knows that most cops are this way.

[pinkmandy]

Holy crap. Post #11:


IMO, no. This is the same excuse "legitimate" () bikers use when discussing their membership in an OMG. The fact is, is that as part of that group, you KNOW there are "bad apples" in the group and your status within the group is unknown, so why should LE automatically assume you're not in favor of that behavior? From a LE perspective it's inefficient & (more importantly) from a personal perspective, it can prove deadly.
It seems you're asking if it's "fair" LE"targets" (your word) 3rd Party candidates, when the fact(again) is these people have targeted Government (literally) which we have sworn to protect.

Bolding mine. :eek:

[pinkmandy]

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116969

FTW

Only one reply and he doesn't seem to understand the concept of parody. :D

[Brian4Liberty]

do you think that the police should be afraid of groups like this? I think its pretty sad that Oakland Police are basically in a war with the citizens there. That is what disturbs me the most.

Imagine what kind of memo's are floating around that place that put innocent people in jeapordy. I guess the question becomes, "how should the police respond to this?"

I think Oakland needs to have a town hall meeting and let these people vent their concerns with all the officials present.

I heard that the guy who murdered the police officers in Oakland voted for Obama. Obviously, anyone with an Obama bumper sticker should be considered a cop-killer until proven otherwise... :rolleyes:

[tremendoustie]

Does this surprise ANYONE?? How is this news??

Most cops are arrogant, and many are pricks. I applaud them for their bravery and service, but everyone knows that most cops are this way.

I certainly don't applaud cops in general, nor do I think you can call all cops "brave", or what they do "service". There are many examples of cops who are quite corrupt, or quite violent, or quite cowardly.

There are some whom I would applaud, but you don't get moral character or honor just by putting on a funny costume. You earn it through your actions.

I also wouldn't necessarily say that the majority are arrogant, or pricks, although certainly many are, as evidenced by that forum.

[Epic]

hmmmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6QKcARdl2w&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9kPJ5o_pMs&feature=player_embedded

looks like the militia is also made up of socialist democrats with an entirely different agenda. go figure, constitution loving republicans aren't the only people who have a problem with the brutal police state.

I completely agree with what the young lady says about opening up a dialog with police. Unfortunately, as evidence by the officer.com forum, police officers aren't very forthcoming with their ideas and opinion, and the ones that are expressed pretty much reinforce the stereo type. And that is in the quasi-anonymous region of the internet, where people can still express opinions without fear of persecution.

Try having that conversation in public with the "peace keepers". I know I have and trust me, mentioning the Constitution and the protections we are supposed to enjoy by this document IS INDEED probable cause for resisting arrest w/o violence, which is apparently all a cop needs to further trump up charges so the prosecutor can threaten with felony ASSAULT ON A LEO. Cops bring it on themselves. I just hope they will take the olive branch while it is still being offered. Some of these guys have multiple M-4 and "illegal" AR-15 / M-16 cause its NOT illegal for law enforcement. Double standard, go figure.

Alright, so I found tremendous ironies when watching this video

1. The black community is outraged at the "police state" and "occupying army in the black community" - which I would agree with. The one man even makes the connection that "the police are an arm of the state". But why do black people vote 98% for liberal statist democrats? If they all voted libertarian, it wouldn't be that way. Also, they are getting mad (righteously) at cops for shooting people, but the amount of black crime and black shooting is way above other races.

2. One man says "we want economic development and social justice" - we'll which one do you want?? Freedom and economic growth.... or "social justice" via wealth redistribution... you cannot have both - they are opposites.

[He Who Pawns]

I certainly don't applaud cops in general, nor do I think you can call all cops "brave", or what they do "service". There are many examples of cops who are quite corrupt, or quite violent, or quite cowardly.

There are some whom I would applaud, but you don't get moral character or honor just by putting on a funny costume. You earn it through your actions.

I also wouldn't necessarily say that the majority are arrogant, or pricks, although certainly many are, as evidenced by that forum.

Well I guarantee you will applaud them if they save your ass from some maniac with a gun or knife trying to kill you or your family.

[newbitech]

Alright, so I found tremendous ironies when watching this video

1. The black community is outraged at the "police state" and "occupying army in the black community" - which I would agree with. The one man even makes the connection that "the police are an arm of the state". But why do black people vote 98% for liberal statist democrats? If they all voted libertarian, it wouldn't be that way. Also, they are getting mad (righteously) at cops for shooting people, but the amount of black crime and black shooting is way above other races.

2. One man says "we want economic development and social justice" - we'll which one do you want?? Freedom and economic growth.... or "social justice" via wealth redistribution... you cannot have both - they are opposites.

no doubt these "protesters" are a little off-base with their political alignment. The biggest irony of all imo, is that cops have all of this information at their disposal yet still find ways to walk into situations that wind up causing deaths and then turn around and claim documents like the MIAC are there to train cops how to avoid such situations.

For instance, the incident that got these 4 cops killed. How hard would it have been to link their killers parole records and discover that he was out on weapons charges? Seriously. Yet a guy like me gets "profiled" and approached with weapons drawn simply for driving a "hot-rod".

[torchbearer]

Holy crap. Post #11:



Bolding mine. :eek:

They think they've sworn to protect the government and not the people. that is fucked up.
I might reply to that... bans be damned.

[specsaregood]

Well I guarantee you will applaud them if they save your ass from some maniac with a gun or knife trying to kill you or your family.

And how often is that? Hostage situations are rare and in pretty much every other situation they only show up to take reports and sometimes catch the criminal after the event. It's not really their fault; they can't be everywhere. But it is unwise to rely on them to protect you from such situations.

[pcosmar]

Well I guarantee you will applaud them if they save your ass from some maniac with a gun or knife trying to kill you or your family.

Not friggin likely.They would arrest me for defending my land if i survived, or take notes for a report if I did not.

[tremendoustie]

no doubt these "protesters" are a little off-base with their political alignment. The biggest irony of all imo, is that cops have all of this information at their disposal yet still find ways to walk into situations that wind up causing deaths and then turn around and claim documents like the MIAC are there to train cops how to avoid such situations.

For instance, the incident that got these 4 cops killed. How hard would it have been to link their killers parole records and discover that he was out on weapons charges? Seriously. Yet a guy like me gets "profiled" and approached with weapons drawn simply for driving a "hot-rod".

Well, the protesters are more than a little off base, they are advocating violence, which I think we agree is totally uncalled for.

[tremendoustie]

Well I guarantee you will applaud them if they save your ass from some maniac with a gun or knife trying to kill you or your family.

When do cops ever do that? If you're worried about attackers, it's the 2nd amendment that helps, not cops. By the time the cops get there it will be far too late.

At best, the cops will prosecute the maniac after he does whatever he's going to do, or you stop him or scare him off yourself.

Cops do do good things -- like going after violent criminals, and sometimes brave things. But, I certainly am not going to ascribe the attribute of "courageous" to everyone who puts on a uniform. Busting in a grandmother's door on an anonymous drug tip with a half a dozen other guys in swat gear and shooting the family pet is not courageous, nor is it service. And this has a lot more to do with what some cops do than going after "maniacs".

Going after actual violent criminals is a relatively small part of LE in general, compared with traffic enforcement, drug enforcement, nanny state enforcement, etc.

Now, the local, friendly cop, who helps citizens when they need it, respects people's rights, does not abuse authority, and rescues people from burning vehicles -- that guy is courageous, and what he does is service.

[newbitech]

Well, the protesters are more than a little off base, they are advocating violence, which I think we agree is totally uncalled for.

I guess, I meant politically off-base as in the whole socialist agenda that they are rallying under. I didn't quite take it as advocating violence. But regardless I agree that doing so or giving off that perception is counter-productive to their final goal which seems to be similar to what I would like to see happen. Police need to establish better relations with the communities.

Pretty much every city cop that I have come across in my area is from out of town. There is the start of problems right there. But yeah, violence is definitely not the answer.

[He Who Pawns]

Look all I'm saying is, some cops are brave, and sometimes they help save peoples' asses. Same with firefighters.

I already said most of them are pricks. No one really disagrees with that, so why is this story somehow shocking?

[tremendoustie]

I guess, I meant politically off-base as in the whole socialist agenda that they are rallying under. I didn't quite take it as advocating violence. But regardless I agree that doing so or giving off that perception is counter-productive to their final goal which seems to be similar to what I would like to see happen. Police need to establish better relations with the communities.

Pretty much every city cop that I have come across in my area is from out of town. There is the start of problems right there. But yeah, violence is definitely not the answer.

These are good points.

[newbitech]

Look all I'm saying is, some cops are brave, and sometimes they help save peoples' asses. Same with firefighters.

I already said most of them are pricks. No one really disagrees with that, so why is this story somehow shocking?

Its the whole back story. The fact that there is an internet forum where citizens can go and ask questions to cops is news to some. I am not sure any of this was meant to be shocking, but certainly this MIAC was one of very few modern reports that has come out and profiled people politically. I am also pretty sure it is the only modern report that has actually put in the name of a sitting US congressman that incidentally is getting major media coverage after a failed presidential bid.

The cop forum is just another way to spread the message peacefully and interact with cops in a way that doesn't put either side of the argument in danger. Some people appreciate that and others never knew that such a thing was possible.

[tremendoustie]

Look all I'm saying is, some cops are brave, and sometimes they help save peoples' asses. Same with firefighters.

I already said most of them are pricks. No one really disagrees with that, so why is this story somehow shocking?

I have a lot more respect for firefighters than cops. I think a higher percentage of what firefighters do is actually helping people, and I think they are required to show bravery more often as well.

I haven't seen any videos of firefighters beating the crap out of helpless preteens, nor do they knock down doors and terrorize people on suspicion of commiting victimless crimes, nor do they enforce nanny state regulations.

Actually, now that I think about it, fire service just might be the most successful of all government programs. Not that it's efficient, but it doesn't backfire, or create more harm than good, as so many other government actions do.

Of course, I have the most respect of all for volunteer firefighters.

[jcarcinogen]

I heard that the guy who murdered the police officers in Oakland voted for Obama. Obviously, anyone with an Obama bumper sticker should be considered a cop-killer until proven otherwise... :rolleyes:

+1 :p