Glenn Beck people, please read this

[LibertyEagle]

Missouri State House bans funding for "Political Profiling."

http://www.news-leader.com/article/20090325/BLOGS09/90325059/-1/RSS13

JEFFERSON CITY — In response to a controversial report profiling political beliefs of militia members, the Missouri House of Representatives has barred the Department of Public Safety from spending any "state or federal funds for political profiling."

On a voice vote, the Republican-controlled House adopted an amendment to the budget bill for Department of Public Safety, forbidding that state agency from funding reports like the Missouri Information Analysis Center's recent Feb. 20 "modern militia movement" report.

The Department of Public Safety has apologized for the militia report, which links fundamentalist Christians, strict followers of the U.S. Constitution and people who oppose taxes, abortion and illegal immigration as possible members of militias.

Earlier today, the Missouri State Highway Patrol retracted the militia report and admitted errors in the way the report was distributed without getting reviewed by top state officials, including DPS Director John Britt.

Rep. Jim Guest, R-King City, introduced the amendment.

Rep. Shane Schoeller, R-Willard, spoke on the House floor in favor the amendment. The northern Greene County representative said he's field numerous calls from constituents in the past week who are outraged by the report and its generalizations.

Schoeller compared the report's profiling of conservative political thought to the tyranny the nation's Founding Fathers fought against.

The authors of the MIAC militia report remain unknown.

“It is our job to hold them accountable,” Schoeller said. "We must be strong, we must take a stand today and we must stand up for the people because that was what we were sent here to do."

The amendment passed on a partisan voice vote, with Republicans voting "yes" and Democrats in the chamber voting "no."


----------------------

Missouri MIAC Documents Scandal Leads to Advisory on SPLC & ADL

http://www.mmdnewswire.com/missouri-miac-4829.html


Contact: Americans for Legal Immigration PAC (ALIPAC)
WilliamG@alipac.us, (866) 703-0864

(MMD Newswire) March 26, 2009 -- ALIPAC is issuing a national advisory to all local, state, and Federal law enforcement agencies and officers, along with all DHS Fusion Centers, a warning against any reliance upon faulty and politicized research issued by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) and Anti Defamation League (ADL).

A national scandal emerged in Missouri, after their MIAC Fusion Center issued an eight page document which made many false claims. The documents attempted to politicize police and cast suspicion on millions of Americans. The 'Missouri Documents', as they came to be called, listed over 32 characteristics police should watch for as signs or links to domestic terrorists, which could threaten police officers, court officials, and infrastructure targets.

Police were instructed to look for Americans who were concerned about unemployment, taxes, illegal immigration, gangs, border security, abortion, high costs of living, gun restrictions, FEMA, the IRS, The Federal Reserve, and the North American Union/SPP/North American Community. The 'Missouri Documents' also said potential domestic terrorists might like gun shows, short wave radios, combat movies, movies with white male heroes, Tom Clancey Novels, and Presidential Candidates Ron Paul, Bob Barr, and Chuck Baldwin!

Article continues:
http://www.mmdnewswire.com/missouri-miac-4829.html

--------------------------

[FrankRep]

So the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) and Anti Defamation League (ADL) were behind this "Political Profiling" of Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr supporters?

:mad:

[pcosmar]

It seems to be the suspicion of many. I believe it quite likely, but have not seen hard proof.
I was hopping the Sunshine Law/FOIA from Missouri would connect them. But they have been stonewalling.
Those responsible need to have their hides tacked to the wall. :(

[KCIndy]

.... and Paul, Baldwin and Barr are still waiting for an apology....

[robert4rp08]

*confused* who are glenn beck people? and why are you trying to get their attention about this?

[dannno]

*confused* who are glenn beck people? and why are you trying to get their attention about this?

Glenn Beck's spies who checkout our forums regularly.

[Rael]

Glenn Beck's spies who checkout our forums regularly.

Any evidence for that?

[AdamT]

Scary that all the Dems voted against this bill :mad:

WTF?

[Dripping Rain]

thanks LE. I hope this doesnt get ignored by Beck. this is what will prove my gut feeling about Beck.

[Dripping Rain]

It seems to be the suspicion of many. I believe it quite likely, but have not seen hard proof.
I was hopping the Sunshine Law/FOIA from Missouri would connect them. But they have been stonewalling.
Those responsible need to have their hides tacked to the wall. :(

full paragraphs in the report were copy pasted from the ADL website as it had been proven.
http://araceagainsttime.blogspot.com/2009/03/modern-militia-movement-report-written.html
wether they were directly involved or not they clearly influenced the report

[LibertyEagle]

GunnyFreedom is he one who found these articles and posted them. I just grabbed 'em and put them in one post to try to get Beck's attention. Probably won't work, but what the heck. lol.

[rpfan2008]

So the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) and Anti Defamation League (ADL) were behind this "Political Profiling" of Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr supporters?

:mad:

They are more like a Defamation League.

[GunnyFreedom]

GunnyFreedom is he one who found these articles and posted them. I just grabbed 'em and put them in one post to try to get Beck's attention. Probably won't work, but what the heck. lol.

Thanks LE, you should know that I found that at http://libertycasting.org/index.php

[Dripping Rain]

thanks Gunny great findsi say. now lets see if Beck responds. im not getting my hopes up about him though

[GunnyFreedom]

They are more like a Defamation League.

A political PAC, however well intentioned, has the potential to go wrong, and to seek power alone, for power's sake. In their political quest for power, they actually poison the very minds trying to heal from decades in the abuse of racism. They exacerbate the situations for political gain, building generations of racists to come.

This kind of abuse has to stop.

The ADL is a wonderful idea gone horribly wrong, to descend into radical left political lobbying, public propagandizing, and now outright scare tactics... if not threats?

I hope this incident, if nothing else, will shine a light on their activities. If they are not behind this, it certainly looks like it, given the documented history.

Come clean and speak the truth!

For as long as they are silent about this, then I think the best way that we can bless Israel in the eyes of God, is to curse the ADL, and thus prune the vine, or let Him take the root. The ADL was a wonderful organization designed to stop racism, and today we find them perpetuating it. It is reprehensible and immoral, and it is against the law of God, please - see /lashon hara/

Being principled does not require being irrational. I am sure that we can bless Israel without the ADL.

[akihabro]

Glenn Beck's spies who checkout our forums regularly.

Would watching Glenn's show and emailing some Glenn beck supporters some info I get from this forum (sometimes) constitute spying? Or would this be blanket targeting like this report from the MIAC? I'm glad we got angry called our representatives and won this crap.

[acptulsa]

A political PAC, however well intentioned, has the potential to go wrong, and to seek power alone, for power's sake. In their political quest for power, they actually poison the very minds trying to heal from decades in the abuse of racism. They exacerbate the situations for political gain...

I certainly hope we can keep our own house clean. Given the way neocons are jumping on our bandwagon, I have my doubts. I'm glad to see that, so far, we seem pretty diligent. I hope fans of Sanford, Beck and others will understand that only due diligence will prevent this little movement of ours from going the same ugly direction.

[GunnyFreedom]

I certainly hope we can keep our own house clean. Given the way neocons are jumping on our bandwagon, I have my doubts. I'm glad to see that, so far, we seem pretty diligent. I hope fans of Sanford, Beck and others will understand that only due diligence will prevent this little movement of ours from going the same ugly direction.

Run someone against every Neocon in the GOP Primary, if only to call them out in public debate. :) :D

[moostraks]

Run someone against every Neocon in the GOP Primary, if only to call them out in public debate. :) :D

yep!!!:D

[Auntie Republicrat]

...get it straight, beck cheerleaders..

...beck appears to be yet another loud blowhole republican conservative cheerleader who yaps about evil 'big government' in one breath while apologizing for/ignoring the EXPEN$IVE, HUGE GOVERNMENT, WORLD-WIDE, WARMONGERISM, IMPERIALISM, BUSYBODISM, etc., THAT HIS FAVORITE STINKING CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS SUPPORT/MAINTAIN.. for one of many stinking things..

..(my apologies to ron paul only)

[tonesforjonesbones]

Glenn Beck has covered this ad nauseum. I am loving Glenn Beck these days. You naysayers are doing the liberty movement NO GOOD. I just visited a forum dedicated to Glenn Beck's 912 Project...this is taking hold in the country...he has people going back and reading Thomas Paine's Common Sense, quotes and writings from our Founders. Glenn Beck has done a lot for the Liberty Movement and you should be hanging your heads in shame for going against the spreading of the movement. You act like Beck has stolen something from you...SHAME! Get OVER it...this movement will grow....embrace it or GET OUT OF THE WAY! TONES!

[Bison]

Any evidence for that?

Beck has said on the air that he checks out what is on the internet to try and see trends and what people are concerned about.

But its not spying, after all this is a public forum open to everybody.

Bison

[tonesforjonesbones]

Thank GOD the ADL and SPLC are being exposed for the RATS they are. These folks were embedded in the communist party in the USA ...BOLSHEVIK Trotskyites who immigrated and failed to leave their communism at the border. I have NOTHING good to say about them....they should be disbanded and dispersed. They have perpetrated the war on Christmas and Easter, they hate our American traditions and they have incessently attacked Christians and Christianity. I'd like to use the RICO act to GET RID of the bastids. They did NOTHING good but create hate and discontent. They should be DEPORTED back to Russia where they came from. TONES

[LibertyEagle]

Glenn Beck has covered this ad nauseum. I am loving Glenn Beck these days. You naysayers are doing the liberty movement NO GOOD. I just visited a forum dedicated to Glenn Beck's 912 Project...this is taking hold in the country...he has people going back and reading Thomas Paine's Common Sense, quotes and writings from our Founders. Glenn Beck has done a lot for the Liberty Movement and you should be hanging your heads in shame for going against the spreading of the movement. You act like Beck has stolen something from you...SHAME! Get OVER it...this movement will grow....embrace it or GET OUT OF THE WAY! TONES!

Tones, there is a big difference between liking some of what Beck is doing vs. putting all your trust in the man.

Remember Pete Peterson? The guy who owned the IOUSA movie? So many around here were praising the guy, until finally they realized that he was the SOB that some of us knew that he always had been for like forever. He used the movie to cause unrest in the people for valid reasons, but that was all so he could steer them off into the wrong direction with his proposed "solution".

So yes, I enjoy some of what Glenn Beck is doing right now. But, trust is earned and he is a LONG way from that. One thing is for sure, we can use what HE is doing as a stepping stone to getting our own message out to the people. If only we would capitalize on the opportunity. If we leave it all up to Beck, I seriously think we are making the wrong choice.

[acptulsa]

Tones, there is a big difference between liking some of what Beck is doing vs. putting all your trust in the man.

And encouraging others to trust him--especially ones who are less educated than us and therefore don't have as good b.s. detectors, is counterproductive to our cause (our cause being the nation and its people) and a real disservice to that person.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Im sick of the bullcrap. Every time someone says something GOOD to move liberty forward, they get blasted here..UNLESS they are on your "approval list". Get OFF it..either you WANT the movement to spread or you want it to remain a little clique ...which will do nothing for our cause to get back to the Constitution. If this doens't go mainstream...we're dead in the water. We NEED the GLenn Becks on our side because he appeals to millions of people. Either you want it or you dont. This is NOT a private club. Whether or not he is sincere...he has people reading history and thinking and rallying which will cultivate those who ARE sincere. It's unfortunate that it took the GOP losing to start waking up....but whatever it takes....I pray we will gain enough ground to stop the madness. TONES (I choose to be positive and remain hopeful)

[LittleLightShining]

Im sick of the bullcrap. Every time someone says something GOOD to move liberty forward, they get blasted here..UNLESS they are on your "approval list". Get OFF it..either you WANT the movement to spread or you want it to remain a little clique ...which will do nothing for our cause to get back to the Constitution. If this doens't go mainstream...we're dead in the water. We NEED the GLenn Becks on our side because he appeals to millions of people. Either you want it or you dont. This is NOT a private club. TONESYou aren't listening. If you are then you aren't understanding.

[LibertyEagle]

Im sick of the bullcrap. Every time someone says something GOOD to move liberty forward, they get blasted here..UNLESS they are on your "approval list". Get OFF it..either you WANT the movement to spread or you want it to remain a little clique ...which will do nothing for our cause to get back to the Constitution. If this doens't go mainstream...we're dead in the water. We NEED the GLenn Becks on our side because he appeals to millions of people. Either you want it or you dont. This is NOT a private club. Whether or not he is sincere...he has people reading history and thinking and rallying which will cultivate those who ARE sincere. It's unfortunate that it took the GOP losing to start waking up....but whatever it takes....I pray we will gain enough ground to stop the madness. TONES (I choose to be positive and remain hopeful)

I'm not blasting him. Not at all. But, I don't need a leader. Do any of us? I will be happy to work right beside Glenn, or anyone interested in liberty. Even "Truth"Warrior. :p But, you seem to believe that we need to pledge allegiance to the man and that I will not do. Why is it that you seem to think we need to?

Again, I'm not bashing Beck. I'm very happy he is doing what he is doing and we should capitalize on the opportunities that offers us.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I understand that there is a cliquish attitude within the liberty movement and it turns people off. What are ya'll ? The vetting team? Just STOP IT. Tones

[acptulsa]

Im sick of the bullcrap. Every time someone says something GOOD to move liberty forward, they get blasted here..UNLESS they are on your "approval list". Get OFF it..either you WANT the movement to spread or you want it to remain a little clique ...which will do nothing for our cause to get back to the Constitution. If this doens't go mainstream...we're dead in the water.

If we don't make it go mainstream we're dead in the water, yes. But what if we create a monster, tones? You really, really want to live with that?

Hey, those of you who say you're former neocons--please educate this woman. How many of you were among Gingrich's New Christian Activist Right, and how many of you are grieving the fact that by joining that movement you helped the neocons get in a position to wage war against anyone and everyone with oil somewhere under their feet? Are you proud to have been a part of a movement that was hijacked for evil purposes? Have you had difficulty living with the fact? Did your conviction that abortion is murder not only fail to keep the unborn from being aborted, but lead to murders of people all over the world (who were born long enough ago to leave their own children orphans) to boot?

Well, please tell tones all about it. She seems determined to refuse to learn from your experiences and so seems to want to repeat them. And she wants to drag me along!

[tonesforjonesbones]

Here's the deal...Glenn Beck IS a tool. Tones

[Auntie Republicrat]

"We NEED the GLenn Becks on our side because he appeals to millions of people. Either you want it or you dont."

:rolleyes:

..it appears to me that he appeals to conservative republican warmongers..and/or other goddamned republicrat fools who aren't aware of/don't care about/applaud/etc. MISERABLE US INC. FOREIGN POLICY..to name only one stinking thing..

[LibertyEagle]

I understand that there is a cliquish attitude within the liberty movement and it turns people off.

I've seen that on this board, yes, I have. But, I'm not seeing much of it in this thread at all.


What are ya'll ? The vetting team? Just STOP IT. Tones
What are you? The cheerleading squad? Geez. :rolleyes:

[tonesforjonesbones]

Look...the neocons aren't the first who pushed nonsense. I just watched a great documentary that was on PBS in 1987 talking about The Secret Government...the CIA and all they have done since 1947...the neocons are only a small faction of the dastardly folk who are in on this. It's been going on for almost 70 years in some form. tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

I cheer for anyone who is spreading the message of liberty...even Glenn Beck. besides, he's cute. :)

[LibertyEagle]

"We NEED the GLenn Becks on our side because he appeals to millions of people. Either you want it or you dont."

:rolleyes:

..it appears to me that he appeals to conservative republican warmongers..and/or other goddamned republicrat fools who aren't aware/don't care/applaud MISERABLE US INC. FOREIGN POLICY..to name only one stinking thing..

With all due respect, stick a sock in it. I'm a traditional conservative; I like some of what Beck is saying, but I certainly do not applaud the neocon foreign policy. Nor does anyone that I have seen on this board.

:)

[acptulsa]

Here's the deal...Glenn Beck IS a tool. Tones

A double-edged knife is a tool as well. Would you let a child use it without supervision?

Um, the Federal Reserve is, like, over ninety years old, tones. Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Telling people to watch Beck is a recipe for disaster. Teaching people to think for themselves and helping them understand what is important is a recipe for success.

Give someone a fish or teach that someone to fish? Give them Beck or teach them why liberty works? Sure, use Beck as our tool while we can--but do not under any circumstances encourage anyone to have unqualified faith in him! Why do you continually and ad nauseum act like we're saying anything different from this?

[LibertyEagle]

Look...the neocons aren't the first who pushed nonsense. I just watched a great documentary that was on PBS in 1987 talking about The Secret Government...the CIA and all they have done since 1947...the neocons are only a small faction of the dastardly folk who are in on this. It's been going on for almost 70 years in some form. tones
True. The old guard world government pukes were around long before the neoconservatives, and still exist. What's your point?


I cheer for anyone who is spreading the message of liberty...even Glenn Beck. besides, he's cute. :)

I cheer for the MESSAGE.

Look Tones, all I was saying is that I'm not going to suggest to anyone that they should just follow Beck like a lemming. This whole freedom deal is about trusting principles, not people. That's pretty much in line with what our founders said too, right? Rule of Law NOT rule by men.

As long as Beck is singing the tune of liberty, that's absolutely wonderful. I'm happy to work right beside him. But, you'll have to excuse me if I insist on keeping one eye trained on him at the same time.

[LittleLightShining]

I understand that there is a cliquish attitude within the liberty movement and it turns people off. What are ya'll ? The vetting team? Just STOP IT. Tones

What's wrong with vetting? If you listen to Beck you know he says himself, "Don't trust me. Do your own research."

[tonesforjonesbones]

Yes and Glenn Beck is the most popular one who is spreading it at the moment. I DO hope he get's off the war agenda...but it seems from one of those video's he's coming around on that also. So...maybe he's green...but his viewers are greener...at least he's staying a step ahead of them. He said he is a Libertarian in Conversion..he says it has to be taken slow. I agree...it does. You just can't bombard people wiht truth all at once or they will go on overwhelm and shut down. Baby steps. Tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

Look...I just get so weary of the negativity on this forum...it's the little anarchists doing it. Tones

[Feenix566]

Beck has said on the air that he checks out what is on the internet to try and see trends and what people are concerned about.

But its not spying, after all this is a public forum open to everybody.

Bison

I was wondering that myself. How does one spy on a public forum?

[DAFTEK]

Tones, there is a big difference between liking some of what Beck is doing vs. putting all your trust in the man.

Remember Pete Peterson? The guy who owned the IOUSA movie? So many around here were praising the guy, until finally they realized that he was the SOB that some of us knew that he always had been for like forever. He used the movie to cause unrest in the people for valid reasons, but that was all so he could steer them off into the wrong direction with his proposed "solution".

So yes, I enjoy some of what Glenn Beck is doing right now. But, trust is earned and he is a LONG way from that. One thing is for sure, we can use what HE is doing as a stepping stone to getting our own message out to the people. If only we would capitalize on the opportunity. If we leave it all up to Beck, I seriously think we are making the wrong choice.

^THIS!!!! 10q LE!^:)

[LittleLightShining]

Yes and Glenn Beck is the most popular one who is spreading it at the moment. I DO hope he get's off the war agenda...but it seems from one of those video's he's coming around on that also. So...maybe he's green...but his viewers are greener...at least he's staying a step ahead of them. He said he is a Libertarian in Conversion..he says it has to be taken slow. I agree...it does. You just can't bombard people wiht truth all at once or they will go on overwhelm and shut down. Baby steps. TonesMe, too. Because as far as I'm concerned if he doesn't he shouldn't be using the word libertarian to describe himself.

If he doesn't he's co-opting the word for the neo-cons.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Anne Coulter stated AGAIN that she supports Ron Paul in 2012. Whatever is happening..I can't say it's a bad thing. Tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

See Liberty..when you make those statements...the little anarchists JUMP on it like white on rice. SMH. tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

You know...when Beck interviewed Ron Paul o;;n the FEMA camps...Ron Paul debunked them...that is what made Glenn Beck reverse on it..so Ron Paul has to watch his p's and q's also..that did some damage right there. smh TONES

[LittleLightShining]

See Liberty..when you make those statements...the little anarchists JUMP on it like white on rice. SMH. tonesWho's negative? Honestly, tones. You're always complaining about how negative everyone is. So again, who's negative?

[Auntie Republicrat]

LIBERTY EAGLE: "I like some of what Beck is saying, but I certainly do not applaud the neocon foreign policy. Nor does anyone that I have seen on this board."

..i hope it doesn't get me in trouble to point out THAT SELF-IDENTIFIED 'CONSERVATIVES,' IN MY EXPERIENCE, ARE OVERWHELMINGLY A BUNCH STINKING WARMONGER APOLOGISTS..among many other stinking things..

...sadly, IME, ron paul supporters ARE A SMALL MINORITY OF THE "CONSERVATIVE" CROWD..(most rp supporters i know identify as 'libertarian' or 'independent' etc.--NOT 'CONSERVATIVE')

[LittleLightShining]

You know...when Beck interviewed Ron Paul o;;n the FEMA camps...Ron Paul debunked them...that is what made Glenn Beck reverse on it..so Ron Paul has to watch his p's and q's also..that did some damage right there. smh TONEShe didn't debunk them. He said he didn't personally have any evidence. I think he even went so far as to say he wouldn't doubt it.

[acptulsa]

LIBERTY EAGLE: "I like some of what Beck is saying, but I certainly do not applaud the neocon foreign policy. Nor does anyone that I have seen on this board."

..i hope it doesn't get me in trouble to point out THAT SELF-IDENTIFIED 'CONSERVATIVES,' IN MY EXPERIENCE, ARE OVERWHELMINGLY A BUNCH STINKING WARMONGER APOLOGISTS..among many other stinking things..

...sadly, IME, ron paul supporters ARE A SMALL MINORITY OF THE "CONSERVATIVE" CROWD..(most rp supporters i know identify as 'libertarian' or 'independent' etc.--NOT 'CONSERVATIVE')

A whole bunch of the less strong-minded conservatives believe deeply in their hearts that liberty is good, but are too easily suckered into an us vs. them mentality. And, yes, no small number of them are all too ready to go kick some ass--well, not them personally, but they're happy to be on the ass kickin' bandwagon.

Well, hell. What do we do? We can help them see what their Christianity really means and help them see that there, but for the grace of God, go I, or we can villify them all and go on being voices crying in the wilderness. I've been shouting in the wilderness for three freaking decades and I'm sick of it, myself. I'd rather persuade than villify.

But I do understand your frustration. Evolution generally tends to go the right direction. Unfortunately, it also tends to be slower than molasses running down the wall of a freezer.

[Auntie Republicrat]

"Well, hell. What do we do?"

...i don't know..but i think i know what NOT to do..

...one thing NOT to do is associate 'the freedom movement' with stinking mainstream 'conservatism'/'conservatives'...these goddamned idiots treat 'freedom' like a dog with worms treats your lawn..

[acptulsa]

...one thing NOT to do is associate 'the freedom movement' with stinking mainstream 'conservatism'/'conservatives'...these goddamned idiots treat 'freedom' like a dog with worms treats your lawn..

Hear this, tones? She's right, isn't she?

Liberty Eagle has got it right. Somehow, we have to get the message through. It isn't the messenger, it's the message. Any tool will do, but a tool is nothing but nothing but a means to an end. We've got to keep all eyes on the prize--liberty!

[LibertyEagle]

See Liberty..when you make those statements...the little anarchists JUMP on it like white on rice. SMH. tones

WHAT statement? I made quite a few. :p

[LibertyEagle]

LIBERTY EAGLE: "I like some of what Beck is saying, but I certainly do not applaud the neocon foreign policy. Nor does anyone that I have seen on this board."

..i hope it doesn't get me in trouble to point out THAT SELF-IDENTIFIED 'CONSERVATIVES,' IN MY EXPERIENCE, ARE OVERWHELMINGLY A BUNCH STINKING WARMONGER APOLOGISTS..among many other stinking things..
All I'm saying to you is that the traditional conservatives (aka the libertarian wing of the Republican party) are not warmonger apologists. I will give you that some of them were propagandized and misled and it is those I hope will wake up. The other Republicans were always big government warmongers, because in reality they are the same as their leftist counterpart on the other side of the aisle.


...sadly, IME, ron paul supporters ARE A SMALL MINORITY OF THE "CONSERVATIVE" CROWD..(most rp supporters i know identify as 'libertarian' or 'independent' etc.--NOT 'CONSERVATIVE')
Well, you see, it pisses me off that the neocons trashed the conservative label. You may be right that I should give up on it. Kinda like how the classical liberals had to give up on the term "liberal". Most of the time I do, actually. Except when I come to this forum. Because to be honest with you, it PISSES ME OFF when traditional conservatism is lumped in with neoconservatism and conservatism as a whole is blamed for all the BS that Bush did. When in reality it bears absolutely no resemblance to traditional conservative principles. Same goes for the religious "right" and I put it in quotes, because they are really leftists, as they believe in using big government to force their unconstitutional agenda.

Hope this makes sense.

[Reason]

*confused* who are glenn beck people? And why are you trying to get their attention about this?

qft

[tonesforjonesbones]

Look...the if the liberty movement is going to be a little club, you might as well give up..unless it gets a bigger tent, you might as well give up. There is too much self sabatoging on this forum...what are some of you afraid of? Success? Is it too much responsibility? I don't get it. I am very positive on the conversion of Glenn Beck...the negativity is CATCHING. It's very disheartening actually...I am always amazed at the criticism when one of the conservatives actually gets something right. It's just ridiculous. You should be giving Beck pats on the back and encouraging him on...some of you will write nasty letters and continue to give Ron Paul and the movement a very bad brand. PLEASE STOP IT. Tones

[jmdrake]

So the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) and Anti Defamation League (ADL) were behind this "Political Profiling" of Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr supporters?

:mad:

The SPLC has been attacking what they call "false patriots" for over a decade.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=196

Note that they even attacked the militia member who exposed the racist "Good old boy roundup". Since they claim to be fighting racism why would they go against someone who was exposing it? :eek:

[LibertyEagle]

Look...the if the liberty movement is going to be a little club, you might as well give up..unless it gets a bigger tent, you might as well give up. There is too much self sabatoging on this forum...what are some of you afraid of? Success? Is it too much responsibility? I don't get it. I am very positive on the conversion of Glenn Beck...the negativity is CATCHING. It's very disheartening actually...I am always amazed at the criticism when one of the conservatives actually gets something right. It's just ridiculous. You should be giving Beck pats on the back and encouraging him on...some of you will write nasty letters and continue to give Ron Paul and the movement a very bad brand. PLEASE STOP IT. Tones

Tones, while I agree with what you are saying in general, very little to NONE of that is in THIS THREAD. So, what in HELL are you spewing about? Personally, I am NOT AGAINST Glenn Beck. I am glad as hell that he is singing part of our tune. That's wonderful. I applaud him. In fact, that is one of the reasons I started this thread.

All I'm saying is that I'm not going to jump in with both feet and pledge my allegiance to the man. That isn't saying anything bad about him at all. It's the principles we should be spreading; not an allegiance to a PERSON. I've said this same thing multiple times in this thread, yet you keep coming back accusing people of negativity or excluding others. I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that in this thread. Other threads, yes. But not this one. Don't create trouble where there is NONE. Geez.

[Auntie Republicrat]

LIBERTY EAGLE:..."it pisses me off that the neocons trashed the conservative label. You may be right that I should give up on it. Kinda like how the classical liberals had to give up on the term "liberal". Most of the time I do, actually. Except when I come to this forum. Because to be honest with you, it PISSES ME OFF when traditional conservatism is lumped in with neoconservatism and conservatism as a whole is blamed for all the BS that Bush did. When in reality it bears absolutely no resemblance to traditional conservative principles...."

:rolleyes:

...but, AGAIN, when you can't/won't name even 10 of the "good" self-identified conservatives' out of the HUNDREDS WHO HAVE HELD HIGH PUBLIC OFFICE...well, isn't it OBVIOUS THE TERM 'CONSERVATIVE' IS CACA?!?..

...please bury that stinking conservative corpse...at least don't try to confuse people that STINKING 'conservatism' equates with decent libertarianism, realism, etc..PLEASE..

[specsaregood]

...but, AGAIN, when you can't/won't name even 10 of the "good" self-identified conservatives' out of the HUNDREDS WHO HAVE HELD HIGH PUBLIC OFFICE...well, isn't it OBVIOUS THE TERM 'CONSERVATIVE' IS CACA?!?..

...please bury that stinking conservative corpse...at least don't try to confuse people that STINKING 'conservatism' equates with decent libertarianism, realism, etc..PLEASE..

It is true that the term "conservative" has been effectively ruined, tarnished, destroyed; esp. during the past administration. Of course this is why the media and using the term "libertarian" more and more to describe "conservatives". Of course they are all just labels subject to eventual co-opting and exploitation. How about we focus on the ideology and not the labels.

[Auntie Republicrat]

SPECSAREGOOD: "How about we focus on the ideology and not the labels."

...(how about we focus on their MISERABLE ACTIONS...phuck their stinking, spinning-like-a-top 'ideology!') ;)

[specsaregood]

SPECSAREGOOD: "How about we focus on the ideology and not the labels."

...(how about we focus on their MISERABLE ACTIONS...phuck their stinking, spinning-like-a-top 'ideology!') ;)

The "miserable actions" of whom?

[Auntie Republicrat]

Specsaregood: "The "miserable actions" of whom?"

..(all stinking politicians...and their cheerleaders, supporters)

[PatriotOne]

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." former CIA Director William Colby.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I am speaking in general...


more from the wicked Southern Poverty Law Center
False Patriots Timeline



1990
9/11/90 -- President Bush, describing the post-Cold War world, outlines his vision of a "New World Order." Conspiracy-minded Patriots take this as a slip of the tongue revealing secret plans to create a one-world government.


1992

February '92 -- White supremacist theorist Louis Beam calls for "leaderless resistance," or cells of fighters who report to no one. In coming years, the concept will be picked up by many in the Patriot movement.

4/2/92 -- Terry Nichols, who will one day be convicted of conspiracy in the Oklahoma City bombing, renounces his U.S. citizenship, saying he "follow[s] the common law," indicating his early participation in the Patriot movement.

August '92 -- James "Bo" Gritz, a Vietnam war hero admired by many Americans, calls for civilian militias during his "populist" campaign for the presidency.

8/31/92 -- White supremacist Randy Weaver surrenders after an 11-day standoff at his cabin on Ruby Ridge, Idaho, that left his wife, son and a U.S. marshal dead. The incident galvanizes many on the radical right.

10/23/92 -- Anti-Semitic Christian Identity pastor Pete Peters hosts the "Rocky Mountain Rendezvous" in Estes Park, Colo., where 160 extremists, reacting to Ruby Ridge, lay out strategies for what will become the militia movement.


1993

2/28/93 -- Four federal agents and several cultists are killed in a gunfight when the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms raids the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. The 51-day standoff that follows rivets the nation.

4/19/93 -- The FBI tries to end the Waco standoff by injecting tear gas into a building that subsequently bursts into flames, leaving some 80 Davidians dead. More than any other event, the debacle ignites the militia movement.

7/8/93 -- In a stinging rebuke to federal law enforcement, a jury acquits Randy Weaver and another man of murdering a U.S. marshal during the Ruby Ridge standoff. Evidence emerges that the FBI loosened its normal rules of engagement and covered up that fact later.

10/4/93 -- A Florida couple with ties to the Patriot movement guns down an Opelika, Ala., police sergeant investigating a disturbance involving the woman's 9-year-old son. They will later be convicted of capital murder.

November '93 -- The Brady Bill, imposing a waiting period for handgun purchasers, is signed into law, infuriating many gun enthusiasts. Anger at the bill, along with a 1994 ban on some assault weapons, helps fuel the militia movement.


1994

1/1/94 -- The first modern militia, the Militia of Montana, is officially inaugurated. It is led by John Trochmann, a white supremacist supporter of Randy Weaver.

January '94 -- The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is implemented, angering many over the prospect of a loss of U.S. jobs to Mexico. Patriots see this as reflecting the growing power of a global elite, or New World Order.

1/30/94 -- A California official who angered Patriot "common-law" adherents by refusing to vacate an IRS lien is beaten, stabbed and sodomized with a gun. The attack exemplifies the growing violence of common-law adherents.

March '94 -- More than 800 people gather in Kalispell, Mont., to hear Militia of Montana leader John Trochmann, reflecting the growing strength of the militia movement.

April '94 -- The Michigan Militia, soon to grow into the nation's largest militia group with up to 6,000 members, is formed by gun shop owner Norm Olson and Ray Southwell.

May '94 -- In a speech to the antigovernment U.S. Taxpayers Party, a militant abortion opponent calls on churches to form their own militias, showing the increasing convergence of Patriot and anti-abortion activists.

6/18/94 -- Common-law ideologue Brian Knoff is surreptitiously recorded discussing a planned marijuana-smuggling operation through Cuba that he hopes will help to fund other Patriot activists.

8/4/94 -- Two members of the Minnesota Patriots Council are arrested for making the deadly toxin ricin, and are later convicted of plotting to poison federal agents. In the next six years, nearly 30 major terrorist attacks (see Terror from the Right) will be plotted.

9/19/94 -- Self-appointed militia "general" Linda Thompson calls for an armed march on Washington, D.C., prompting other Patriots to renounce her as foolhardy and suicidal.

9/28/94 -- In one of the first acts of the Oklahoma conspiracy, Terry Nichols helps steal explosives from a Kansas quarry. He will help acquire many other materials before leaving co-conspirator Tim McVeigh a letter urging him to "go for it."

October '94 -- More than 1,500 people attend "Operation Freedom" in Lakeland, Fla., listening to speeches and collecting information about starting militias.

11/14/94 -- A militiaman threatens an Audubon Society official with a noose after the official testifies for an environmental measure. The incident is one of hundreds reflecting Patriot hatred of government regulation of the environment.

February '95 -- Some 2,000 people gather in Meadville, Penn., to hear militia figure Mark "Mark from Michigan" Koernke discuss the steps Americans should take to defend themselves against the "New World Order."

March '95 -- Former Klansman Don Black puts up the first hate site on the World Wide Web, starting a trend that will be followed by hundreds of militia groups.

4/19/95 -- A truck bomb brings down the Oklahoma City federal building, killing 168 people in America's worst domestic terrorist attack. Timothy McVeigh, later convicted in the bombing, had ideological roots both in the Patriot world and among neo-Nazis like William Pierce, whose novel, The Turner Diaries, served as a blueprint for the attack.

Late April '95 -- Echoing Patriot rhetoric, the National Rifle Association says "jack-booted government thugs" have "the government's go-ahead to ... murder law abiding citizens." Former President George Bush quits the NRA in protest.

6/3/95 -- A major gathering of common-law activists is held in the Wichita, Kansas, convention center on the anniversary of the 1984 death of Gordon Kahl, a militant tax protester killed some four months after murdering two federal agents.

6/15/95 -- In the wake of the Oklahoma bombing, militia leaders and others testify before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee. Many experts see the hearings as something of a militia victory because of the uncritical nature of the questioning.

6/21/95 -- President Clinton signs a directive outlining emergency arrangements in the event of terrorist attacks. It is the first of many such actions, including a 1996 order to hire 500 new FBI agents, highlighting the new importance terrorism has to domestic police agencies.

July '95 -- Two militia groups and the neo-Nazi Aryan Nations launch simultaneous campaigns to gather information about and conduct covert surveillance on "opponents."

September '95 -- William Pierce, author of the The Turner Diaries and leader of the neo-Nazi National Alliance, launches a "militia project," encouraging his members to develop contacts with militias in a bid to influence them.


1996

3/25/96 -- A common-law group called the Montana Freemen begins an 81-day standoff in Montana after its leaders are arrested and charged with a multimillion-dollar fraud. In the end, the standoff will end peacefully.

4/5/96 -- Patriot activists mix with neo-Nazis and Klansmen at Jubilation '96, a Lake Tahoe, Nev., gathering of more than 500 people that is hosted by adherents of the racist and anti-Semitic Christian Identity religion.

8/24/96 -- More than 500 supporters attend a major meeting of the separatist Republic of Texas' "Provisional Government General Council."

8/31/96 -- At the largest Patriot gathering ever held in Washington, D.C. — far from the rural areas of America where the movement is strong — more than 300 people join in a "Rally for the Bill of Rights."

10/22/96 -- Michigan Militia leader Tom Wayne gives a presentation to over 500 students at a Michigan college, reflecting widespread interest in the movement.


1997

4/18/97 -- A Patriot group files a notice with Maricopa County officials declaring a new "Country of Arizona," separate from the United States, and supposedly recognized by the United Nations as "Indigenous Nation No. 215."

May '97 -- A Southern Poverty Law Center count shows that the Patriot movement reached its peak in 1996 with 858 militia-type groups, up from 224 in 1995. Thereafter, the number of Patriot groups will decline steadily through 2000.

5/3/97 -- A six-day standoff between police and Republic of Texas common-law separatists ends. One man is killed in a gun battle with police.

6/2/97 -- Timothy McVeigh is convicted in the Oklahoma bombing and will later be sentenced to death. Co-conspirator Terry Nichols will be tried later in the year and sentenced to life in prison.

December '97 -- Nearly 100 New York City employees, including some corrections officials, are arrested for using common-law "untaxing" kits to evade taxes. The case underscores how far such ideology has spread.

3/8/98 -- A Texas man with reported separatist views like those of the Republic of Texas, claiming to be armed and carrying explosives, attempts to take over a Veterans Affairs office in Waco. Jason Leigh eventually surrenders.

3/17/98 -- Two former New York City police officers become the last of 14 NYPD officers to be convicted in a tax evasion scheme. The two sold tax evasion kits from Patriot groups to other officers for up to $2,000 each.

April '98 -- At the annual Knob Creek (Ky.) Machine Gun Shoot, a popular event for militiamen and other gun enthusiasts, a militia unity meeting breaks up as hard-liners walk out angrily — one of many splits to weaken the Patriot movement.

June '98 -- A study by the Southern Poverty Law Center shows that in the preceding three years, 19 states have passed new laws or strengthened existing ones to cope with bogus property liens and threats from "common-law" adherents. Another eight states are considering similar actions.

7/17/98 -- Optimistically labeled a "patriotic Woodstock," the American Heritage Festival '98 in Carthage, Mo., draws as many as 3,000 people over two days.

12/30/98 -- A county grand jury orchestrated by conspiracy-minded former Oklahoma State Rep. Charles Key finds that there is no evidence of a larger conspiracy in the Oklahoma City bombing. Key immediately denounces the findings.


1999

6/11/99 -- Nearly 100 hard-line Patriots gather for advanced paramilitary training at the North Carolina property of former Special Forces member John Roberts, head of the Militia of East Tennessee.

8/7/99 -- U.S. marshals seize the Tampa, Fla., headquarters of Greater Ministries International Church to preserve evidence. The seizure follows by seven months the indictment of church principals in a massive, Patriot-influenced scam.

9/13/99 -- Tennessee common-law ideologue Peter Stern is charged with conspiring to defraud tax authorities with fake checks from the Montana Freemen. Around the nation, hundreds of common-law followers like Stern are going to jail.

10/13/99 -- Members of the Southern Indiana Regional Militia meet with FBI agents as part of a government effort to defuse tensions between Patriots and officialdom.

November '99 -- Nearly 10,000 people in Denver attend the last Preparedness Expo before the new year to prepare for the "Y2K" collapse that many Patriots fear.


2000

1/1/00 -- Despite Patriot expectations that the millennial date change will bring martial law or massive social collapse, nothing of the kind occurs.

3/21/00 -- Federal agents and state police raid the Louisiana home of Verdiacee Goston, the "empress" of Washitaw Nation, a predominantly black separatist group that sold fake passports and driver's licenses. Goston is not arrested.

May '00 -- Texas Constitutional Militia member John Joe Gray holes up with heavily armed family members, refusing to face charges of assaulting two highway patrolmen. Actor Chuck Norris, a Gray hero, fails to broker a settlement.

6/2/00 -- Having survived "Y2K" without incident, the first Preparedness Expo of the new millennium has a new focus on health and freedom, along with a new name, "Lifeline Expo."

7/15/00 -- In a lawsuit by surviving Davidians, a judicial panel says the government was not responsible for starting the gun battle that began the Waco standoff. The next week, a special counsel will rule that U.S. officials committed "no bad acts" in Waco.


2001

2/13/01 -- Federal agents seize Indianapolis Baptist Temple, ending a low-key, 92-day standoff and 17 years of the church's refusal to pay withholding taxes. The church is part of the Patriot-influenced "unregistered churches" movement.

2/28/01 -- Separatist Republic of Texas members join an anti-immigration group, Ranch Rescue, in trying to halt illegal aliens from entering the country.

3/12/01 -- A federal court in Florida finds Gerald Payne, head of the Patriot-influenced scam known as Greater Ministries International Church, guilty in a $448 million Ponzi scheme that victimized thousands.

4/19/01 -- On the anniversaries of the Waco conflagration and the Oklahoma City bombing, and in advance of the scheduled execution of Timothy McVeigh, security around federal installations and elsewhere is extraordinarily tight.

5/16/01 -- Timothy McVeigh, convicted in connection with the murder of 168 people including 19 small children, is scheduled to be put to death, the first federal execution in more than three decades.


Intelligence Report
Summer 2001



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Memories of 'Patriotism'
Issue 102 | Summer 2001

EDITORIAL
Into the Shadows

ON THE COVER:
THE RISE AND DECLINE OF THE 'PATRIOTS'
Antigovernment Fervor Dies With McVeigh
Biography misses key points

FALSE PATRIOTS
Profiles of 40 Antigovernment Leaders
'Patriot' movement timeline

TERROR FROM THE RIGHT
30 Plots Foiled Since Oklahoma City

ORGANIZING FREEDOM
Antigovernment 'County' Founders

CHURCH VS. STATE
'Unregistered Churches' Persist

REEVALUATING THE NET
Where's the Real Cyber-Extremism?

COMING OUT
Leaving a Christian Identity Church

INTELLIGENCE BRIEFS
Woman's Death Exposes Prison Scam

German Extremist Loses Asylum Bid

Creationism Gets A Dash of Anti-Semitism

Racist Preacher Gets 30 Years in Kidnapping

Tough-Talking Racialist Tells All

Nazi Compound To Become Civil Rights Center

Accused Assassin Arrested in France

Florida 'Church' Leaders Guilty in Scam

LEGAL BRIEF
A Ruling for Gun Rights

THE LAST WORD
ELF Is On the March

[Athan]

ADL = American Defamation League