PDA

View Full Version : Jim Rogers left America for good




Jeremy
03-26-2009, 06:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6PCz-aA5Sw

He sold his home =o

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 06:29 AM
Good Riddance.

Jeremy
03-26-2009, 06:29 AM
Good Riddance.

???

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 06:36 AM
???

I know I didnt stutter. Jim Roger's Asia worship has long been a cause of annoyance to me. I'm glad to see him go.

slacker921
03-26-2009, 06:39 AM
His timing is probably right this time.

RevolutionSD
03-26-2009, 08:14 AM
I know I didnt stutter. Jim Roger's Asia worship has long been a cause of annoyance to me. I'm glad to see him go.

What's wrong with his so-called Asia worship? He sees that there is a better future in Asia than the U.S., so he moved there. If he thought Mexico had a better future, I'm sure that's where he would be.

I see nothing wrong with him wanting to leave the country.

tremendoustie
03-26-2009, 08:32 AM
What's wrong with his so-called Asia worship? He sees that there is a better future in Asia than the U.S., so he moved there. If he thought Mexico had a better future, I'm sure that's where he would be.

I see nothing wrong with him wanting to leave the country.

I wouldn't say good riddance, Jim Rogers is a great asset, but I do wish he'd stay and fight rather than up and go.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 08:46 AM
I know I didnt stutter. Jim Roger's Asia worship has long been a cause of annoyance to me. I'm glad to see him go.


Same here. Why has he no allegiance to the very country whose free markets allowed him to become a rich man?

Jeremy
03-26-2009, 08:51 AM
Same here. Why has he no allegiance to the very country whose free markets allowed him to become a rich man?

So you're saying he should stay here where his children will live a tougher life just so he can appear to be more "American"?

Unspun
03-26-2009, 08:51 AM
Same here. Why has he no allegiance to the very country whose free markets allowed him to become a rich man?

Because I imagine he feels Asia's freer markets will make him richer.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 08:56 AM
So you're saying he should stay here where his children will live a tougher life just so he can appear to be more "American"?


No, I don't want him to "appear" more American. I want him to care about his country of origin. Stay and at least TRY to fight. It's too soon to abandon America in my opinion. Believe me, I don't think people should fight for a lost cause, but I don't believe America is a lost cause. Do you?

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 08:58 AM
Because I imagine he feels Asia's freer markets will make him richer.

If that is true, then no one can accuse him of being a True American Patriot.

qh4dotcom
03-26-2009, 08:58 AM
Same here. Why has he no allegiance to the very country whose free markets allowed him to become a rich man?

It's also probably safer over there...Jim Rogers is also concerned about his children's safety since he talks about civil unrest...remember the reason why you bought guns?
The upcoming economic collapse will increase crime.

He Who Pawns
03-26-2009, 09:00 AM
He probably figured out that this is a lost cause here, at least for now. It will probably take a huge catastrophe to return to constitutional government and free markets.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 09:01 AM
It's also probably safer over there...remember the reason why you bought guns?
The upcoming economic collapse will increase crime.

I don't agree with your comparison. And I don't think he's safer in a country that outlaws weapons. It's not that I dislike him. I do like him. But I don't agree with all that he says and does. And this is one area on which I don't agree with him.

qh4dotcom
03-26-2009, 09:01 AM
No, I don't want him to "appear" more American. I want him to care about his country of origin. Stay and at least TRY to fight. It's too soon to abandon America in my opinion. Believe me, I don't think people should fight for a lost cause, but I don't believe America is a lost cause. Do you?

He can continue doing the fighting from over there....he's not going to stop making speeches.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 09:03 AM
He can continue doing the fighting from over there....he's not going to stop making speeches.


Yeah, but he just seems like he's got this "if you can't beat em, join em" attitude. I prefer the logic of "if you can't beat em, infiltrate".

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 09:04 AM
He probably figured out that this is a lost cause here, at least for now. It will probably take a huge catastrophe to return to constitutional government and free markets.


Do you really believe America is a lost cause?

Epic
03-26-2009, 09:04 AM
I wouldn't say good riddance, Jim Rogers is a great asset, but I do wish he'd stay and fight rather than up and go.

He is fighting. He does all the cable news channels... and tons of people around the world look to him for commentary. He is incredibly influential.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 09:12 AM
He is fighting. He does all the cable news channels... and tons of people around the world look to him for commentary. He is incredibly influential.

I dont see moving to a predominantly communistic/socialistic region as fighting for America.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 09:15 AM
He can continue doing the fighting from over there....he's not going to stop making speeches.

I guess you could interpret his enlightening us with his knowledge of the economy as fighting........but his actions speak louder than his words to me...at the moment.

qh4dotcom
03-26-2009, 09:17 AM
I don't agree with your comparison. And I don't think he's safer in a country that outlaws weapons. It's not that I dislike him. I do like him. But I don't agree with all that he says and does. And this is one area on which I don't agree with him.

Guns can't help you when other people have them and you're outnumbered...he can hire licensed armed security guards over there...remember he talks about civil unrest and the upcoming economic collapse is going to increase crime...I can understand why he'd rather stay far away from trouble.

qh4dotcom
03-26-2009, 09:20 AM
Do you really believe America is a lost cause?

It's a lost cause here, at least for now, until a huge catastrophe happens to return to constitutional government and free markets. The sheeple needs to learn their lesson the hard way...until that happens they will remain sheeple

Here you go...why America is a lost cause

http://www.shoutfile.com/watch/iUkb3MBs/George-Carlin---Voting.html

He Who Pawns
03-26-2009, 09:36 AM
Do you really believe America is a lost cause?

It is in the short term. Rogers is doing a lot of interviews bashing the socialist changes here. What else can he do?

It will take a major disaster, unfortunately, before America wakes up.

MsDoodahs
03-26-2009, 09:49 AM
Do you really believe America is a lost cause?

Yes.

ClayTrainor
03-26-2009, 09:54 AM
To those of you that think America is a lost cause, do you also think Liberty is a lost cause?

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 09:58 AM
So you're saying he should stay here where his children will live a tougher life just so he can appear to be more "American"?

No offspring of Jim Rogers is going to have a tough life for at least 4 generations.

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:00 AM
What's wrong with his so-called Asia worship? He sees that there is a better future in Asia than the U.S., so he moved there. If he thought Mexico had a better future, I'm sure that's where he would be.

I see nothing wrong with him wanting to leave the country.


If he prefers Asia, I would prefer he leave. Good riddance means 'YAY, HES GONE!"

We need liberty lovers, not money grubbers.

MsDoodahs
03-26-2009, 10:01 AM
To those of you that think America is a lost cause, do you also think Liberty is a lost cause?

No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE-OMF-O27c

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:01 AM
Because I imagine he feels Asia's freer markets will make him richer.

Those freer markets that are being built on slave labor... Again, glad to see him go.

qh4dotcom
03-26-2009, 10:02 AM
To those of you that think America is a lost cause, do you also think Liberty is a lost cause?

No

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:03 AM
It's also probably safer over there...Jim Rogers is also concerned about his children's safety since he talks about civil unrest...remember the reason why you bought guns?
The upcoming economic collapse will increase crime.

If he was interested in America, hed buy some guns and teach his kids how to use them. Hes not.

JosephTheLibertarian
03-26-2009, 10:04 AM
Same here. Why has he no allegiance to the very country whose free markets allowed him to become a rich man?

Why must you sacrifice individualism to nationalism?

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:06 AM
Why must you sacrifice individualism to nationalism?

Without AMERICAN nationalism, there never would have been anything but a tiny footnote to talk about when discussing individualism. They are interdependent.

JosephTheLibertarian
03-26-2009, 10:10 AM
Without AMERICAN nationalism, there never would have been anything but a tiny footnote to talk about when discussing individualism. They are interdependent.

Are you sure about that? Adam Smith was, after all, a scot. There's a difference between opposing taxes for yourself and opposing taxation, period.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 10:11 AM
It's a lost cause here, at least for now, until a huge catastrophe happens to return to constitutional government and free markets. The sheeple needs to learn their lesson the hard way...until that happens they will remain sheeple

Here you go...why America is a lost cause

http://www.shoutfile.com/watch/iUkb3MBs/George-Carlin---Voting.html

So....let me get this straight....according to George Carlin (who we approached for MC when organizing RevMarch btw) if I vote - and my candidate doesn't win - I have no right to complain! Oh wait....he doesn't address thaaat aspect does he? :rolleyes:

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:12 AM
Are you sure about that? Adam Smith was, after all, a scot.

There is no question that American Individualism was born in Scotland. All you have to do is look at Scotland today to see how far Britain allowed that to go in the land of its birth... as in NOWHERE.

For the record, my family moved with the ideology. When it died there, they came here.

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 10:12 AM
Jim Roger's Asia worship has long been a cause of annoyance to me. I'm glad to see him go.

And ignorance of Asia's opportunities has long been a cause of annoyance to me. You can put your head in the sand all you want, the fact is the economic epicenter of the world will be in Asia in the next decade. You can't fault anyone for having interest in Asia for that, just like you couldn't fault our ancestors from coming over on the boat from Europe. At that time, America was were the money was at, now that's changing, immigrating to a new land for a better life isn't a new phonemenon.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 10:12 AM
Why must you sacrifice individualism to nationalism?


huh??? so, fighting for liberty in your country (which encompasses fighting for individualism) is now called nationalism?

JosephTheLibertarian
03-26-2009, 10:14 AM
There is no question that American Individualism was born in Scotland. All you have to do is look at Scotland today to see how far Britain allowed that to go in the land of its birth... as in NOWHERE.

For the record, my family moved with the ideology. When it died there, they came here.

Maybe that's what Jim is doing.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 10:14 AM
No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE-OMF-O27c

Ideas that can't be put into action are completely useless.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 10:15 AM
No


How can you have a lost America and still have liberty?

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:15 AM
And ignorance of Asia's opportunities has long been a cause of annoyance to me. You can put your head in the sand all you want, the fact is the economic epicenter of the world will be in Asia in the next decade. You can't fault anyone for having interest in Asia for that, just like you couldn't fault our ancestors from coming over on the boat from Europe. At that time, America was were the money was at, now that's changing, immigrating to a new land for a better life isn't a new phonemenon.

Funny. I spent a decade studying Asia. I am not ignorant of Asia's 'opportunity', what I am also not ignorant of is Asia's general cultural disdain for individual liberties.

The nail that sticks up will be hammered down.

Your icon betrays your bias.

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:17 AM
Maybe that's what Jim is doing.

Asia will NEVER be the land of individualism, it just is not culturally possible.

JosephTheLibertarian
03-26-2009, 10:18 AM
How can you have a lost America and still have liberty?

A country is just an imaginary thing. All that is truly real are humans and the free market. There is nothing that the state can do that the free market can't do better.

www.freedomainradio.com Stefan Molyneux is my favorite philosopher :D

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:22 AM
A country is just an imaginary thing. All that is truly real are humans and the free market. There is nothing that the state can do that the free market can't do better.

www.freedomainradio.com Stefan Molyneux is my favorite philosopher :D


That is an Anarchistic fallacy. A NATION is built on a CULTURE, and cultures as fragile as individualism require the protection of a nation.

There are some things the market cannot do. They are few, but they are vital to the EXISTENCE of the market, both of goods, and ideas.

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 10:22 AM
what I am also not ignorant of is Asia's general cultural disdain for individual liberties.

The nail that sticks up will be hammered down.

Your icon betrays your bias.


Funnier, you know nothing of Asia, and I already now you have never been there or you wouldn't say stupid shit like their "cultural disdain for individual liberties"

I lived there for half my life and I have never felt stripped of my freedoms. In some ways you have more individual liberties there. By the way, what countries are you talking about in Asia?

malkusm
03-26-2009, 10:24 AM
What is the United States of America? It's a government. Other than that, "United States of America" has no meaning.

It was once a government founded on freedom and solid principles. It no longer holds those principles.

I am an individual, and I hold no allegiances to government or anyone else. I will make my way wherever I see fit, be it in America, Asia, or on Mars. If you want to talk about free markets, then let's talk about free markets: I'm going to live in the place that benefits me the most. If it's not America, then so be it. This government has done nothing but stolen my property and restricted my actions since the day I was born.

If there were such a binding allegiance to country of origin, why? Where is the line drawn? Should I have an allegiance to my continent? My state? The land I was born and raised on? The lines that governments draw are arbitrary. I hold no allegiance to this place. When I fight for freedom, I fight for freedom everywhere, not just in America.

malkusm
03-26-2009, 10:26 AM
How can you have a lost America and still have liberty?

Liberty is natural. It was not granted just because America said it was, and it can't disappear just because a country disappears. In my opinion, this country has been lost for a while, if you look at what it was founded on.

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 10:26 AM
What is the United States of America? It's a government. Other than that, "United States of America" has no meaning.

It was once a government founded on freedom and solid principles. It no longer holds those principles.

I am an individual, and I hold no allegiances to government or anyone else. I will make my way wherever I see fit, be it in America, Asia, or on Mars. If you want to talk about free markets, then let's talk about free markets: I'm going to live in the place that benefits me the most. If it's not America, then so be it. This government has done nothing but stolen my property and restricted my actions since the day I was born.

If there were such a binding allegiance to country of origin, why? Where is the line drawn? Should I have an allegiance to my continent? My state? The land I was born and raised on? The lines that governments draw are arbitrary. I hold no allegiance to this place. When I fight for freedom, I fight for freedom everywhere, not just in America.

well said

ClayTrainor
03-26-2009, 10:27 AM
In my opinion, this country has been lost for a while, if you look at what it was founded on.

Pretty hard to disagree with this...

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:32 AM
Funnier, you know nothing of Asia, and I already now you have never been there or you wouldn't say stupid shit like their "cultural disdain for individual liberties"

I lived there for half my life and I have never felt stripped of my freedoms. In some ways you have more individual liberties there. By the way, what countries are you talking about in Asia?

You are obviously know nothing of individual liberty if it doesnt involve money or sex. Name one state in Asia where the pistol on my hip right now wouldnt make me a felon on the hoof.

Yes, I have been to asia for extended periods. Yes, I speak (or used to speak fairly well) an asian language. I spent a signficant amount of time immersing myself in every Asian culture I could get exposure to. I lived with groups here in the US for extended periods when I was here. What I didnt lose is my objectivity, which apparently you have.

JosephTheLibertarian
03-26-2009, 10:33 AM
That is an Anarchistic fallacy. A NATION is built on a CULTURE, and cultures as fragile as individualism require the protection of a nation.

There are some things the market cannot do. They are few, but they are vital to the EXISTENCE of the market, both of goods, and ideas.

http://www.mises.org/media.aspx?ID=91&action=category

What came first? State or culture? There was no culture before the American state? Then how did they ever oppose british taxation? Perhaps the culture was what preceded the state?

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:35 AM
What is the United States of America? It's a government. Other than that, "United States of America" has no meaning.

It was once a government founded on freedom and solid principles. It no longer holds those principles.

I am an individual, and I hold no allegiances to government or anyone else. I will make my way wherever I see fit, be it in America, Asia, or on Mars. If you want to talk about free markets, then let's talk about free markets: I'm going to live in the place that benefits me the most. If it's not America, then so be it. This government has done nothing but stolen my property and restricted my actions since the day I was born.

If there were such a binding allegiance to country of origin, why? Where is the line drawn? Should I have an allegiance to my continent? My state? The land I was born and raised on? The lines that governments draw are arbitrary. I hold no allegiance to this place. When I fight for freedom, I fight for freedom everywhere, not just in America.

Good luck with that. If you will not fight for liberty in the place of its blossoming, then you will lose everything. Enough of you means we have lost for good.

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:39 AM
http://www.mises.org/media.aspx?ID=91&action=category

What came first? State or culture? There was no culture before the American state? Then how did they ever oppose british taxation? Perhaps the culture was what preceded the state?

Note that I used the word Nation, as opposed to State. A NATION requires a culture. A State requires laws. A Nation generally requires a state for the protection it brings. The colonies were an exception IMO due to geography. The British 'colonies' wer a Nation long before they were a state. They were fortunate enough to be protected by thousands of miles of ocean, or else they, like Scotland, would have been crushed long before they could resist long enough to mature.

This nation, this 'state' was no accident, but it was brought about by a very unique set of circumstances that will never be replicated again on Earth. If America falls, liberty falls for good.

malkusm
03-26-2009, 10:40 AM
Good luck with that. If you will not fight for liberty in the place of its blossoming, then you will lose everything. Enough of you means we have lost for good.

Basically you're saying that you can't expect ideas to take hold in any place other than where they were originated. If this were true, each society throughout history would be isolated and completely separate from one another - there would be no trade between nations, no cultural exchange of ideas, no movement of people from one place to another. And, again, how are the lines on a map not completely arbitrary? If they aren't, then am I selling out by moving to a different state as well?

I have news for you: there are freedom-loving people everywhere. It is natural human instinct that makes individuals long for freedom. Is it not worth fighting for in those places as well?

I'm not sure where you get the notion that liberty just all of the sudden appeared when the American government was formed. Let me repeat this:


Liberty is natural. It was not granted just because America said it was, and it can't disappear just because a country disappears.

qh4dotcom
03-26-2009, 10:41 AM
So....let me get this straight....according to George Carlin (who we approached for MC when organizing RevMarch btw) if I vote - and my candidate doesn't win - I have no right to complain! Oh wait....he doesn't address thaaat aspect does he? :rolleyes:

If you vote for a politician who screws up the country, then you do not have the right to complain...this also applies to a candidate who did not win like McCain but would have screwed up the country as well.

If you don't vote or vote for the bright Americans willing to step up and save the nation that he talks about then you do.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 10:42 AM
Liberty is natural. It was not granted just because America said it was, and it can't disappear just because a country disappears. In my opinion, this country has been lost for a while, if you look at what it was founded on.

Tell that to people who live under oppression. It's all well and good to have a philosophy, but when that philosophy can't be put into practice, it becomes useless. Liberty is natural, God given, but it must be fought for, lest someone not of your philosophy come and take it from you. And, as you have already stated, you believe that has already happened (and so do I) as it pertains to our corrupt/inept gov't.

Our country is We The People not the gov't. The sooner we all get back to that realization, the better.

malkusm
03-26-2009, 10:43 AM
Tell that to people who live under oppression. It's all well and good to have a philosophy, but when that philosophy can't be put into practice, it becomes useless. Liberty is natural, God given, but it must be fought for, lest someone not of your philosophy come and take it from you. And, as you have already stated, you believe that has already happened (and so do I) as it pertains to our corrupt/inept gov't.

Our country is We The People not the gov't. The sooner we all get back to that realization, the better.

(emphasis mine)

If Liberty is natural and God given, why is it only worth fighting for in America?

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 10:45 AM
You are obviously know nothing of individual liberty if it doesnt involve money or sex.

WTF does that mean?


[/QUOTE] Name one state in Asia where the pistol on my hip right now wouldnt make me a felon on the hoof.

Yes, I have been to asia for extended periods. Yes, I speak (or used to speak fairly well) an asian language. I spent a signficant amount of time immersing myself in every Asian culture I could get exposure to. I lived with groups here in the US for extended periods when I was here. What I didnt lose is my objectivity, which apparently you have.[/QUOTE]

If the only thing in life your concerend about is carrying a pistol on the side of your hip then you got more problems then a forum like this can address. Yes you can own fire arms in a lot of South East Asian Countries, but you can't carry them around like fucking Rambo, which why would you want to anyways unless your the type of person that likes to intimidate other people?


I lost my objective??? :D
I got my degree in East Asian Languages and Cultures to compliment my MBA I'll be starting in Beijing this fall. I'd say I'm right on track.

What Asian languages do you speak????

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 10:46 AM
(emphasis mine)

If Liberty is natural and God given, why is it only worth fighting for in America?


Who said it was only worth fighting for in America? Liberty should be fought for everywhere. I happen to live in America, therefore I will fight for liberty here. Fighting for it elsewhere while forsaking it here makes about as much sense as taking care of your neighbors family while ignoring your own.

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:46 AM
Basically you're saying that you can't expect ideas to take hold in any place other than where they were originated. If this were true, each society throughout history would be isolated and completely separate from one another - there would be no trade between nations, no cultural exchange of ideas, no movement of people from one place to another. And, again, how are the lines on a map not completely arbitrary? If they aren't, then am I selling out by moving to a different state as well?

You just dont get it. I never said that. What I AM saying is that the conditions that brought about the American Nation are unique, and will never again exist on Earth (perhaps a different planet?) Throughout history, Tyranny is the natural human condition. If liberty cannot survive here, it will not survive anywhere.


I have news for you: there are freedom-loving people everywhere. It is natural human instinct that makes individuals long for freedom. Is it not worth fighting for in those places as well?

If you were right, liberty would be the status quo instead of the exception.


I'm not sure where you get the notion that liberty just all of the sudden appeared when the American government was formed. Let me repeat this

repeating it wont make it right. You still misunderstand. Liberty CAUSED the American state, it gave birth to it. If we cant defend Liberty's child, how can we expect to start new somewhere else, WHEN THERE IS NO PLACE LEFT TO GO!

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 10:47 AM
Pretty hard to disagree with this...


This country isn't lost. We're not lost, we're off track.

ClayTrainor
03-26-2009, 10:49 AM
This country isn't lost. We're not lost, we're off track.

Good point... i guess if it were lost, it wouldn't still be called 'America' :cool:

Lots of work to do tho ;)

Unspun
03-26-2009, 10:49 AM
I dont see moving to a predominantly communistic/socialistic region as fighting for America.

Singapore does not have communistic or socialistic markets. According to the Heritage Foundation Hong Kong and Singapore have the greatest amount of Economic Freedom in the world--even moreso than the United States.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 10:52 AM
Singapore does not have communistic or socialistic markets. According to the Heritage Foundation Hong Kong and Singapore have the greatest amount of Economic Freedom in the world--even moreso than the United States.

This isn't just about markets. Did you know they advocate caning in Singapore?

malkusm
03-26-2009, 10:53 AM
You just dont get it. I never said that. What I AM saying is that the conditions that brought about the American Nation are unique, and will never again exist on Earth (perhaps a different planet?) Throughout history, Tyranny is the natural human condition. If liberty cannot survive here, it will not survive anywhere.


What makes "here" special? That's what I'm getting at. You assume that, since the people who live "here" are under the government that valued liberty most at its inception, that this will be the place it will survive.

The government is not based on those principles any more. People who are alive didn't experience those "unique conditions." Hell, most of the people in this country are descendants of immigrants who came here after the country's founding. The "American Nation" is an idea that has been gone for at least the last 100 years, based on the actions of its state.


If you were right, liberty would be the status quo instead of the exception.

So, because there are liberty-minded people in America, we must be a free country, right? :rolleyes:


repeating it wont make it right. You still misunderstand. Liberty CAUSED the American state, it gave birth to it. If we cant defend Liberty's child, how can we expect to start new somewhere else, WHEN THERE IS NO PLACE LEFT TO GO!

-Again, that state is nothing like what it was founded on.

-Fighting for liberty anywhere else is just as worthwhile as fighting for liberty in America. It's a moral premise that shouldn't be confined to the borders of a state. Liberty should be everywhere; I don't see the logic in condemning someone for moving to a place that will benefit himself as an individual, so long as his ideals remain in place.

Hamer
03-26-2009, 10:54 AM
Same here. Why has he no allegiance to the very country whose free markets allowed him to become a rich man?

What? he has no allegiance to the very country whose free markets allowed him to become a rich man?

I believe he has the right and the obligation to do what is best for his family.

It is not his job to try and save the world althought he has educated many with his wisdom of the market. It is probably a very smart move for him to take his money and move away from the dollar. I have done this with my own money and have most of it in foreign currency as well as gold and silver.

I don't think it is fair to question his allegiance just because he has decided to leave!

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 10:54 AM
This isn't just about markets. Did you know they advocate caning in Singapore?

Then you don't do stupid shit like spray painting 20 cars.

malkusm
03-26-2009, 10:54 AM
Who said it was only worth fighting for in America? Liberty should be fought for everywhere. I happen to live in America, therefore I will fight for liberty here. Fighting for it elsewhere while forsaking it here makes about as much sense as taking care of your neighbors family while ignoring your own.

Ok, but using that analogy: What makes America my "family?" Why are we condemning a man for relocating and making a rational choice to better take care of himself as an individual?

Unspun
03-26-2009, 10:55 AM
This isn't just about markets. Did you know they advocate caning in Singapore?

I don't see what you are getting at, that's like me saying, "did you know that some states advocate the death penalty here?"

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 10:55 AM
WTF does that mean?

it means that Asian ideas of 'liberty' are quite different. They do not include necessarily freedom of speech, religion, self-defense, or many other freedoms that I take for granted. They do include being able to buy sex or exploit people.


If the only thing in life your concerend about is carrying a pistol on the side of your hip then you got more problems then a forum like this can address. Yes you can own fire arms in a lot of South East Asian Countries, but you can't carry them around like fucking Rambo, which why would you want to anyways unless your the type of person that likes to intimidate other people?

It is not the only thing I am concerned with, but I do not go unarmed. Ever. Im not sure what that has to do with Rambo though. Just because I am armed doesnt mean I am armed openly. Nobody knows I am armed 99% of the time. Again, you are biased towards just a few liberties, instead of all of them, or else you wouldnt make such lame assumptions.



I lost my objective??? :D

Yes.


I got my degree in East Asian Languages and Cultures to compliment my MBA I'll be starting in Beijing this fall. I'd say I'm right on track.

Id say you are on the traitors track. Good riddance, Sinophile.


What Asian languages do you speak????

I have given you all the personal information I am going to.

JosephTheLibertarian
03-26-2009, 10:56 AM
Note that I used the word Nation, as opposed to State. A NATION requires a culture. A State requires laws. A Nation generally requires a state for the protection it brings. The colonies were an exception IMO due to geography. The British 'colonies' wer a Nation long before they were a state. They were fortunate enough to be protected by thousands of miles of ocean, or else they, like Scotland, would have been crushed long before they could resist long enough to mature.

Yeah, that's why I asked what came first; Culture of state? But we can just replace state with nation, imo, they're the same things. A nation is a country with its own government? What is a government to do but act like a state? I believe they have the same textbook definition.

If you already have culture, why do you need a state? Perhaps to protect a culture, thus creating a monopoly thereof? Example: english language is seen as American culture, so therefore, the government has acted to protect it against other lanuages by making english the official language in public schools. Yeah, if that's what you mean by culture, then I agree. You believe in preserving the culture in this fashion? Then this state or nation (whatever you want to call it) would most definitely be your prerogative.


This nation, this 'state' was no accident, but it was brought about by a very unique set of circumstances that will never be replicated again on Earth. If America falls, liberty falls for good.

Why would we need to replicate it again? We have enough information on austrian economics, there is no excuse for not educating ourselves on free market economics. We were in the dark on free market economics back in the 18th century, now the information is widely available and has thousands upon thousands of books that supports it. It's not healthy for a state to adopt, that's why the powermongers in government rarely promote austrian economics. There are just those that pay lip service to it, in order to get elected.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 10:56 AM
Then you don't do stupid shit like spray painting 20 cars.

WOW!!! Just WOW!!! I wonder if Peter Schiff or Ron Paul share that sentiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 10:57 AM
I don't see what you are getting at, that's like me saying, "did you know that some states advocate the death penalty here?"

Surely you are not claiming that the people of Singapore have the same rights that we have here?

Unspun
03-26-2009, 10:58 AM
WOW!!! Just WOW!!! I wonder if Peter Schiff or Ron Paul share that sentiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 11:02 AM
I have given you all the personal information I am going to.

lol, good cover, you don't speak any Asian language at all.

You spent a lot of time in other Asian cultures learning there culture and languages right? What cultures, what countries, what languages? I doubt you have ever left your county let alone the country. Why lie about it?

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 11:02 AM
What? he has no allegiance to the very country whose free markets allowed him to become a rich man?

I believe he has the right and the obligation to do what is best for his family.

It is not his job to try and save the world althought he has educated many with his wisdom of the market. It is probably a very smart move for him to take his money and move away from the dollar. I have done this with my own money and have most of it in foreign currency as well as gold and silver.

I don't think it is fair to question his allegiance just because he has decided to leave!


It's my opinion. You don't have to agree with me any more than I have to agree with his decision to abandon America. Believe me, I'm not opposed to abandoning America per say. I've already stated numerous times on these boards that I will stay and fight to the end, but NOT if they enact the draft. That is my one exception. I will not give the lives of my children and sons in law over to this corrupt POS gov't. Won 't happen.

In Roger's case it looks as though he has this : "If you can't beat em, join em" kind of attitude about it. Like it's only about money for him and nothing else. I just don't agree with that.

LibertyEagle
03-26-2009, 11:03 AM
tell that to people who live under oppression. It's all well and good to have a philosophy, but when that philosophy can't be put into practice, it becomes useless. Liberty is natural, god given, but it must be fought for, lest someone not of your philosophy come and take it from you. And, as you have already stated, you believe that has already happened (and so do i) as it pertains to our corrupt/inept gov't.

Our country is we the people not the gov't. The sooner we all get back to that realization, the better.

qft

Unspun
03-26-2009, 11:03 AM
Surely you are not claiming that the people of Singapore have the same rights that we have here?

Are you saying rights are derived from the form of government? I would say the government stays out of their economic lives more than here, but maybe not as far as their civil and personal lives. I know they have real harsh punishments, I understand this. However, If you listen to Jim Rogers he isn't basing his decision entirely on rights, per se, but business opportunity and educational opportunity for him and his children. I think it's a very noble cause to better his own and his family's lives, and I wish him well on his adventure. He is a world traveler and incredibly intelligent, I imagine he knows full well what he's getting himself into.

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 11:04 AM
WOW!!! Just WOW!!! I wonder if Peter Schiff or Ron Paul share that sentiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore

I'm sure they will when their kids go there.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 11:05 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States


Completely irrelevant considering that Singapore ALSO engages in capital punishment. Try convincing the American people to cane their criminals. Try it.

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 11:06 AM
What makes "here" special? That's what I'm getting at. You assume that, since the people who live "here" are under the government that valued liberty most at its inception, that this will be the place it will survive.

This place is still special for many reasons. The 2nd Amendment is one of many. No other place in the world is even possesses the means of rising up against their masters. Despite our current sad state of affairs, we still have a CULTURE of individualism the likes of which exists in no other place on earth. I could go on and on. THIS place is the best and last place to make our stand.


The government is not based on those principles any more. People who are alive didn't experience those "unique conditions." Hell, most of the people in this country are descendants of immigrants who came here after the country's founding. The "American Nation" is an idea that has been gone for at least the last 100 years, based on the actions of its state.[quote]

It is far easier to fix here than it is to start somewhere else.

[quote]So, because there are liberty-minded people in America, we must be a free country, right? :rolleyes:

No, but because there are more liberty minded people in America than in any place on earth, if liberty doesnt survive here, it will survive nowhere.


-Again, that state is nothing like what it was founded on.

because we havent woken up enough people. Unlike any other nation (except perhaps Scotland), we have a history and a culture of individualism to lean on.


-Fighting for liberty anywhere else is just as worthwhile as fighting for liberty in America. It's a moral premise that shouldn't be confined to the borders of a state. Liberty should be everywhere; I don't see the logic in condemning someone for moving to a place that will benefit himself as an individual, so long as his ideals remain in place.

That is where you are wrong. Fighting for liberty in China is like trying to light bonfire in the ocean. At least in the US we have some wood, and dry kindling.

As far as condemning someone. I dont condemn Jim for doing what he thinks is best for him, Im just glad that hes taking his weak sauce ass out of the country. He clearly doesnt believe enough to stay and fight, so IM better off if he is gone.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 11:06 AM
I'm sure they will when their kids go there.


You dare to speak for them????

Unspun
03-26-2009, 11:06 AM
Completely irrelevant considering that Singapore ALSO engages in capital punishment. Try convincing the American people to cane their criminals. Try it.
You're trying to argue that it's some terrible thing that shouldn't happen, while we do something even worse here. I think it is completely relevant whether they do it as well or not.

BTW, I don't advocate caning, and am also anti-death penalty. You could never convince me to allow the government to do either.

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 11:10 AM
You dare to speak for them????

lol, what does that mean? I'm sure if they visit the country they will tell their kids the ins and outs of the country, what and what not to do, they won't try to start a revolution
:D

MsDoodahs
03-26-2009, 11:10 AM
It's my opinion. You don't have to agree with me any more than I have to agree with his decision to abandon America. Believe me, I'm not opposed to abandoning America per say. I've already stated numerous times on these boards that I will stay and fight to the end, but NOT if they enact the draft. That is my one exception. I will not give the lives of my children and sons in law over to this corrupt POS gov't. Won 't happen.

In Roger's case it looks as though he has this : "If you can't beat em, join em" kind of attitude about it. Like it's only about money for him and nothing else. I just don't agree with that.

So in other words...this whole thing is about nothing more than a different "line in the sand."

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 11:11 AM
lol, good cover, you don't speak any Asian language at all.

You spent a lot of time in other Asian cultures learning there culture and languages right? What cultures, what countries, what languages? I doubt you have ever left your county let alone the country. Why lie about it?

Im not lying about it. What Im not bothering with is justifying myself to you. I really couldnt care less if you believe me or not. I will say that of all Asian cultures, I have spent the least amount of time on China and India, since I dont really have any respect for their cultural values. So maybe I am the anti-schiff student ex asiaphile.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 11:13 AM
You're trying to argue that it's some terrible thing that shouldn't happen, while we do something even worse here. I think it is completely relevant whether they do it as well or not.

BTW, I don't advocate caning, and am also anti-death penalty. You could never convince me to allow the government to do either.

I too am against capital punishment. But we live in a democratic-republic and so it goes that some laws that we don't like will be enacted. The beauty is that not all of America's states are pro-death penalty. In addition, the minority have the protection of the bill of rights.

If you choose to put Singapore above America in relation to its markets and human rights, then go ahead. Fight for Singapore, move to Singapore. Become friends with Rogers.

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 11:19 AM
Yeah, that's why I asked what came first; Culture of state? But we can just replace state with nation, imo, they're the same things. A nation is a country with its own government? What is a government to do but act like a state? I believe they have the same textbook definition.

If you already have culture, why do you need a state? Perhaps to protect a culture, thus creating a monopoly thereof? Example: english language is seen as American culture, so therefore, the government has acted to protect it against other lanuages by making english the official language in public schools. Yeah, if that's what you mean by culture, then I agree. You believe in preserving the culture in this fashion? Then this state or nation (whatever you want to call it) would most definitely be your prerogative.

I think you have a fair but incomplete understanding of my position. Our CULTURE is important, and the circumstances that made that culture are unrepeatable. If the Nation built on that culture as messed up as it currently is, does not survive (or some derivative nation with the same culture), then the culture will not survive, and liberty will die.



hy would we need to replicate it again? We have enough information on austrian economics, there is no excuse for not educating ourselves on free market economics. We were in the dark on free market economics back in the 18th century, now the information is widely available and has thousands upon thousands of books that supports it. It's not healthy for a state to adopt, that's why the powermongers in government rarely promote austrian economics. There are just those that pay lip service to it, in order to get elected.

This is why I call ancaps the new communists. Not because they are socialists, but because their models leave out some very basic fundamental human nature. Communists forgot about greed for material wealth. Anarchists forgot about greed for power. All the knowledge of free market economics is useless in a world where you lack the power to defend your territory. For that you need a nation..... and then we reenter the circle of American necessity..

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 11:20 AM
Im not lying about it. What Im not bothering with is justifying myself to you.

Well you did say "Yes, I have been to asia for extended periods. Yes, I speak (or used to speak fairly well) an asian language"

All you have to say is the language, that's it. You don't have to justify yourself to me but just avoid looking like an ass to everyone else on this forum.

You know I don't mind having a conversation with someone that has actually had real experience in the place we are discussing, but it's sad when you have to lie just make your self sound relevant.

Oh and I don't think going to Panda Bear counts for a trip to Asia. ;)

malkusm
03-26-2009, 11:22 AM
This place is still special for many reasons. The 2nd Amendment is one of many. No other place in the world is even possesses the means of rising up against their masters. Despite our current sad state of affairs, we still have a CULTURE of individualism the likes of which exists in no other place on earth. I could go on and on. THIS place is the best and last place to make our stand.

I agree to an extent, but I don't think we have a "culture of individualism." We have individuals; we probably have more individuals than any other country, yes. If this were a "culture of individualism," though, our state would reflect that.


It is far easier to fix here than it is to start somewhere else.

Does that mean liberty is not worth fighting for somewhere else? Liberty-based governments had to start somewhere; using this logic the American revolution would not have occurred.


No, but because there are more liberty minded people in America than in any place on earth, if liberty doesnt survive here, it will survive nowhere.

People are "liberty minded" because they have been exposed to the ideas. Everyone is "liberty minded" if they are faced with decisions directly concerning them. Everyone wants to make the best decision for themselves as individuals. A lot of people don't know that those decisions exist. It doesn't mean it's not worth fighting for.

But yes, I agree we have a more fertile soil with which to sow the seeds of liberty.


because we havent woken up enough people. Unlike any other nation (except perhaps Scotland), we have a history and a culture of individualism to lean on.

Pretty much agree with you here.


That is where you are wrong. Fighting for liberty in China is like trying to light bonfire in the ocean. At least in the US we have some wood, and dry kindling.

As far as condemning someone. I dont condemn Jim for doing what he thinks is best for him, Im just glad that hes taking his weak sauce ass out of the country. He clearly doesnt believe enough to stay and fight, so IM better off if he is gone.

This is what I don't understand. You claim that America is the only place that the ideals of liberty can win because we have a "culture" that we can start from; yet you condemn those of that culture from leaving? What does that say about the "culture" here if those who believe in liberty are going elsewhere?

Just because he's doing it as an economic/business decision does not mean that it is not a decision based on liberty. Liberty promotes economic success. There's a reason that businesses have been outsourcing jobs for some time now.

Anyway, I might not be in America in several years; it doesn't mean that I won't be actively working to promote liberty wherever I am, and it doesn't make my actions any less meaningful. Thousands of people have stood up for what they believed in and no results came from doing so. Should they have rolled over and taken it, then? I fail to see why standing up for liberty in Asia is different than standing up for liberty in America.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 11:22 AM
lol, what does that mean? I'm sure if they visit the country they will tell their kids the ins and outs of the country, what and what not to do, they won't try to start a revolution
:D

Okaayyyy.....that has nothing to do with whether they agree with caning.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 11:28 AM
So in other words...this whole thing is about nothing more than a different "line in the sand."

In a way, yes. I don't agree with leaving our country based purely on market strategies that will empower other nations to become the future super powers. We all know that the strength of a nation is reliant on its economy. I would rather someone like Rogers stay and help devise an alternative strategy to the one being offered by this f'kd up administration.

In my case, I have 4 kids and 2 sons in law, that if they wanted to do so voluntarily, could join the military. But in the event that this gov't should enact conscription, I will abandon it as I have no desire to give this gov't my children's lives.

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 11:29 AM
Okaayyyy.....that has nothing to do with whether they agree with caning.

Oh ultimately I think they don't agree with caning, but I don't think it would stop them from going there. No place is perfect, and if that is what your looking for then good luck. I mean I could have a glass of wine right now, go down the street in my car, get pulled over for a bad tail light and go to jail for the miniscule of alcohol in my system. That wouldn't happen in Singapore.

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 11:31 AM
Well you did say "Yes, I have been to asia for extended periods. Yes, I speak (or used to speak fairly well) an asian language"

All you have to say is the language, that's it. You don't have to justify yourself to me but just avoid looking like an ass to everyone else on this forum.

You know I don't mind having a conversation with someone that has actually had real experience in the place we are discussing, but it's sad when you have to lie just make your self sound relevant.

Oh and I don't think going to Panda Bear counts for a trip to Asia. ;)


Yes, I have been to Asia for extended periods, months at a time. Yes, I used to speak one asian language fairly well, and a smattering of a few others (mostly good curse words and how to order meals). Yes I have lived with various other asian groups in immigrant and student communities in the US. Yes I have studied asian cultures and languages academically, including some work at a graduate level. Thats as far as I am going to go. I dont give a shit what you or anyone else thinks of me on an internet forum. My job isnt to prove myself to you.

Name the culture, and we'll discuss it. If I know nothing about it, Ill say so, but I will not be quizzed like you are some fucking expert testing my credentials. All you are is a sinophile douche with a BA who thinks anyone who carrys a gun thinks he is Rambo, and thinks Singapore is freer than the US, LOLz...

Someone actually named a restaurant "Panda Bear"?

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 11:31 AM
Oh ultimately I think they don't agree with caning, but I don't think it would stop them from going there. No place is perfect, and if that is what your looking for then good luck. I mean I could have a glass of wine right now, go down the street in my car, get pulled over for a bad tail light and go to jail for the miniscule of alcohol in my system. That wouldn't happen in Singapore.

It may not stop them from going there, but it would most likely stop them from living there. A miniscule amount of alcohol won't land you in jail.

malkusm
03-26-2009, 11:32 AM
It may not stop them from going there, but it would most likely stop them from living there. A miniscule amount of alcohol won't land you in jail.

Unless you're under the "legal" age to consume.

ClayTrainor
03-26-2009, 11:33 AM
It may not stop them from going there, but it would most likely stop them from living there. A miniscule amount of alcohol won't land you in jail.

that depends if .08% is considered minuscule or not ;)

Usually you just go to court though, and not jail, right?

schiffstudent
03-26-2009, 11:34 AM
A miniscule amount of alcohol won't land you in jail.

Oh it can, it's at the cops discretion. Driving Under The Influence DUI, any alcohol will suffice.

malkusm
03-26-2009, 11:36 AM
that depends if .08% is considered minuscule or not ;)

Usually you just go to court though, and not jail, right?

For a DUI they usually take you to jail for the night and release you when you blow a 0.00. (Not that I have experience, but that's what I hear.)

Of course, if you ask brandonyates, he'll tell you that you don't even have to be driving. ;)

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 11:36 AM
Okay, okay, under age, alcohol consumption percentage.....let us not derail this very important topic?

malkusm
03-26-2009, 11:39 AM
Well I'm pretty much done with this thread. I'll just quote myself and chalk this up to one of those "agree to disagree" topics. As long as you're a friend of liberty, you're a friend of mine, whether you move to Asia or stay here. :D


What is the United States of America? It's a government. Other than that, "United States of America" has no meaning.

It was once a government founded on freedom and solid principles. It no longer holds those principles.

I am an individual, and I hold no allegiances to government or anyone else. I will make my way wherever I see fit, be it in America, Asia, or on Mars. If you want to talk about free markets, then let's talk about free markets: I'm going to live in the place that benefits me the most. If it's not America, then so be it. This government has done nothing but stolen my property and restricted my actions since the day I was born.

If there were such a binding allegiance to country of origin, why? Where is the line drawn? Should I have an allegiance to my continent? My state? The land I was born and raised on? The lines that governments draw are arbitrary. I hold no allegiance to this place. When I fight for freedom, I fight for freedom everywhere, not just in America.

ClayTrainor
03-26-2009, 11:40 AM
Okay, okay, under age, alcohol consumption percentage.....let us not derail this very important topic?

my bad :o

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 11:41 AM
I agree to an extent, but I don't think we have a "culture of individualism." We have individuals; we probably have more individuals than any other country, yes. If this were a "culture of individualism," though, our state would reflect that.

Call it what you will, our individualistic 'whatever' is still farther along than any other nation on the planet.


Does that mean liberty is not worth fighting for somewhere else? Liberty-based governments had to start somewhere; using this logic the American revolution would not have occurred.

It means in most places you are wasting your time. The only reason a liberty based government has EVER existed is because it happened in THIS cultures ancestor. If it cant be reraised here, no where else is worth the effort.


People are "liberty minded" because they have been exposed to the ideas. Everyone is "liberty minded" if they are faced with decisions directly concerning them. Everyone wants to make the best decision for themselves as individuals. A lot of people don't know that those decisions exist. It doesn't mean it's not worth fighting for.

Not everyone is 'liberty minded'. Yeah, everyone makes the best decisions for themselves, but at risk of sounding like a neocon war chant, FREEDOM ISNT FREE, we have to fight for it. Not everyone is willing to make the sacrifices necessary to stay free, particularly when they are hopelessly outnumbered by collectivists and their sycophants.


This is what I don't understand. You claim that America is the only place that the ideals of liberty can win because we have a "culture" that we can start from; yet you condemn those of that culture from leaving? What does that say about the "culture" here if those who believe in liberty are going elsewhere?

It means they are punkass weak sauce wanna bes who would rather flee than fight. It is no reflection on the rest of us.


Just because he's doing it as an economic/business decision does not mean that it is not a decision based on liberty. Liberty promotes economic success. There's a reason that businesses have been outsourcing jobs for some time now.

this is ancap nonsense. Economics isnt everything, and those who make their decisions based solely on economic opportunity arent libertarians, they are Ferengis.


Anyway, I might not be in America in several years; it doesn't mean that I won't be actively working to promote liberty wherever I am, and it doesn't make my actions any less meaningful. Thousands of people have stood up for what they believed in and no results came from doing so. Should they have rolled over and taken it, then? I fail to see why standing up for liberty in Asia is different than standing up for liberty in America.

Standing up for liberty in Asia means getting run over by a tank. If you want to face that level of futility, go for it. Ill be here taking my chances with my own.

anaconda
03-26-2009, 11:44 AM
Same here. Why has he no allegiance to the very country whose free markets allowed him to become a rich man?


The country would enslave him and persecute him. It's like fleeing Germany in the 1930's. Smart move. He can always come back.

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 11:45 AM
my bad :o

:D;)

RonPaulVolunteer
03-26-2009, 11:46 AM
Oh yes, let's all stay and go down with the ship...

Good little sheeple...

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 11:55 AM
Oh yes, let's all stay and go down with the ship...

Good little sheeple...

Seeeeeeee Ya!

Minarchy4Sale
03-26-2009, 11:56 AM
Oh yes, let's all stay and go down with the ship...

Good little sheeple...

SheepDAWGS!


The sheeple run from the wolves, the SheepDAWGS go down fighting.

RonPaulVolunteer
03-26-2009, 11:57 AM
Seeeeeeee Ya!

Yeah, I'll leave when I get a check for $950...

Bodhi
03-26-2009, 01:06 PM
If Jim Rogers wants to move to Singapore to make a buck that is his right to do so. It does not make him less "patriotic". He is a business man and he is going where the business is. Saying that makes him unpatriotic is just nationalism, nothing more.

Singapore is a nice city by the way and the people are friendly. I would not mind living there for a while.

emazur
03-26-2009, 02:32 PM
Rogers has stated that he wants his children to grow up and speak fluent Chinese, a language much different from English and a language where knowledge of 6000-8000 Chinese characters is necessary in order to read the daily newspaper. Damn that traitor Rogers for wanting to give his children an opportunity of immersion into a very difficult language!

Kludge
03-26-2009, 02:39 PM
Eh, Rogers is still giving interviews and promoting free markets. I don't understand the anger, but a Nihilist usually doesn't...

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 02:47 PM
If Jim Rogers wants to move to Singapore to make a buck that is his right to do so. It does not make him less "patriotic". He is a business man and he is going where the business is. Saying that makes him unpatriotic is just nationalism, nothing more.

Singapore is a nice city by the way and the people are friendly. I would not mind living there for a while.

Oh brother. Now patriotism is equated to nationalism?

Deborah K
03-26-2009, 02:53 PM
Rogers has stated that he wants his children to grow up and speak fluent Chinese, a language much different from English and a language where knowledge of 6000-8000 Chinese characters is necessary in order to read the daily newspaper. Damn that traitor Rogers for wanting to give his children an opportunity of immersion into a very difficult language!

No one is calling him a traitor. Good grief. Read through the thread for Pete's sake. This isn't about immersion. It's about him going where the money and the future power is, and forsaking the country whose free markets helped make him rich.

People in here have tried to equate this to the colonists leaving G.B. to avoid persecution. NOT the same thing at all. I would never expect someone to stay in this country if they were going to be persecuted. That's why I have proclaimed that I will leave if this gov't enacts conscription because I and my family will not abide by it.

I'm not angry at him. I like him actually. I just don't agree with this.

rckt24
03-26-2009, 04:08 PM
He moved away from a country that is starting to have less and less economic freedom to a country that has the second highest rating for economic freedom. It may not be his full intent but it helps bring awareness to what economic freedom can do for a country.

anaconda
03-26-2009, 04:50 PM
No one is calling him a traitor. Good grief. Read through the thread for Pete's sake. This isn't about immersion. It's about him going where the money and the future power is, and forsaking the country whose free markets helped make him rich.

People in here have tried to equate this to the colonists leaving G.B. to avoid persecution. NOT the same thing at all. I would never expect someone to stay in this country if they were going to be persecuted. That's why I have proclaimed that I will leave if this gov't enacts conscription because I and my family will not abide by it.

I'm not angry at him. I like him actually. I just don't agree with this.

There's already persecution.

RSLudlum
03-26-2009, 05:13 PM
I don't see why there's animosity towards Rogers. By his going where he may be able to increase his wealth, he's in a better position to come back and help the US by investing that increased wealth here i.e. if the gov't doesn't perpetuate the dismal economic policies of the past. He hasn't turned his back on America, the US gov't has turned it's back on America. What do you expect a man to do with his wealth, leave it here and let it get squandered away or protect it by any means possible for future generations more specifically his children. By him protecting his wealth, we may be better off; certainly the world economy as a whole is better off.

eduardo89
03-26-2009, 06:42 PM
This isn't just about markets. Did you know they advocate caning in Singapore?

They advocate caning once you infringe on others' liberties or property.

NYgs23
03-26-2009, 09:13 PM
There is no question that American Individualism was born in Scotland....my family moved with the ideology. When it died there, they came here.

So, in other words, your family did exactly what the Rogers family is now doing?

People migrate all the time and always have. My ancestors did. Your ancestors did. Everyone's ancestors did. But if you were born in the territory of the US State that makes it somehow wrong?

You say that patriotism is about a sense of connection to one's culture and people, not to the State. I agree. But then why should I feel more patriotic connection to, say, native Hawaiian islanders than to Englishmen? Being from Yonkers, NY, I'm geographically closer to England and feel I have more in common with them culturally. I've read plenty of English novels, seen English plays, watched English films and TV programs and on and on. I know nothing of native Hawaiian culture. It seems that the only reason I'm supposed to feel more kinship with them is because the US State annexed their island at one point, which was aggressive and anti-freedom.

The only reason I'm in the same state as people in Buffalo is because we happen to live under the same jurisdiction; I probably have more in common with people from either northeast New Jersey or western Connecticut. I certainly know more about those places. Ethnically, I'm primarily Italian-American, who's family came from the Williamsbridge neighborhood of the Bronx. Would it not be natural for me to feel more kinship with my cousins in Tuscany or Sicily, then some blacks from from the Deep South, some Hispanics in the New Mexican desert, some California coast Vietnamese, or some Germanic Protestants from the snows of North Dakota?

Athan
03-26-2009, 09:23 PM
Good Riddance.

He has helped our cause when it mattered and he is still part of our Revolution. His help is more than what what Glenn Beck has done and I am finally starting to warm up to Glenn.

So what if he is now a foreigner. No one else will protect his assets for him after what our government is doing.

Bodhi
03-27-2009, 06:46 AM
Oh brother. Now patriotism is equated to nationalism?

Funny you should say that because it is your posts in this thread that make a person out to be unpatriotic if they are not a nationalist.

Deborah K
03-27-2009, 06:54 AM
Funny you should say that because it is your posts in this thread that make a person out to be unpatriotic if they are not a nationalist.


Give me an example. I can't debate your opinion with nothing specific to back it up.

Deborah K
03-27-2009, 06:56 AM
There's already persecution.

In Jim Rogers' case???

Deborah K
03-27-2009, 06:57 AM
They advocate caning once you infringe on others' liberties or property.

And.....you're okay with this....?

Bodhi
03-27-2009, 06:58 AM
forsaking the country whose free markets helped make him rich.



Give us a break with that drama. He is not forsaking anything, he is just going where the action is. It seems according to your logic a person has to to live their whole life and die in the same country just because they happened to be born in that geographic location, otherwise they are forsaking their country.

There are opportunities outside the borders of the United States, there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of them.

Bodhi
03-27-2009, 07:08 AM
Give me an example. I can't debate your opinion with nothing specific to back it up.

Pretty much every post you made in this thread so far but here is a good one for you to ponder:

"I want him to care about his country of origin."

I'm pretty sure Jim Rogers cares about his country of origin, but I am also pretty sure he does not care about what you want him to do, being that he is a free individual in all.

Deborah K
03-27-2009, 07:10 AM
Give us a break with that drama. He is not forsaking anything, he is just going where the action is. It seems according to your logic a person has to to live their whole life and die in the same country just because they happened to be born in that geographic location, otherwise they are forsaking their country.

There are opportunities outside the borders of the United States, there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of them.

Now it's Drama? Before you said I was confusing nationalism with patriotism. Which is it? Is the above statement considered nationalism to you? Because if it is, then you don't have a clear grasp of what nationalism is.

Rogers and you and others can do whatever the hell you please. And I can criticize it if I choose to. You don't like my opinions? Fine, but debate the issue and try not to get personal. Lest you reveal to everyone that you have to resort to insults because your argument doesn't hold water.

Kludge
03-27-2009, 07:12 AM
Now it's Drama? Before you said I was confusing nationalism with patriotism. Which is it? Is the above statement considered nationalism to you? Because if it is, then you don't have a clear grasp of what nationalism is.

Rogers and you and others can do whatever the hell you please. And I can criticize it if I choose to. You don't like my opinions? Fine, but debate the issue and try not to get personal. Lest you reveal to everyone that you have to resort to insults because your argument doesn't hold water.

You didn't refute his argument...

Deborah K
03-27-2009, 07:14 AM
You didn't refute his argument...




Which is it? Is the above statement considered nationalism to you? Because if it is, then you don't have a clear grasp of what nationalism is.

You don't consider the above a refutation?

Bodhi
03-27-2009, 07:17 AM
Rogers and you and others can do whatever the hell you please. And I can criticize it if I choose to. You don't like my opinions? Fine, but debate the issue and try not to get personal. Lest you reveal to everyone that you have to resort to insults because your argument doesn't hold water.

If you took that as a personal insult I do apologize. I do however see your statements as being overly dramatic. I'm entitled to my opinion thank you very much.

Deborah K
03-27-2009, 07:20 AM
If you took that as a personal insult I do apologize. I do however see your statements as being overly dramatic. I'm entitled to my opinion thank you very much.

Apology accepted. And you are most certainly entitled to your opinion. Now, you 'accused' me of nationalism. Do you want to discuss that, or are we done?

Kludge
03-27-2009, 07:24 AM
You don't consider the above a refutation?

No. "you don't have a clear grasp of what nationalism is" is an attack on a person, not an argument.

Deborah K
03-27-2009, 07:31 AM
No. "you don't have a clear grasp of what nationalism is" is an attack on a person, not an argument.


I admit, I retaliated. So sue me Kludge, defender of Bodhi. :D Bodhi I'm sorry if you saw that as an attack. Btw, Kludge, earlier you claimed I didn't refute him/her, and instead of addressing my response, you moved on to another claim against me. Why's dat?

Bodhi
03-27-2009, 07:34 AM
I admit, I retaliated. So sue me Kludge, defender of Bodhi. :D Bodhi I'm sorry if you saw that as an attack. Btw, Kludge, earlier you claimed I didn't refute him/her, and instead of addressing my response, you moved on to another claim against me. Why's dat?

It is all good. I also don't want you to think I am "accusing" you of anything. Please take any comments only as a reference to your comments on this board. They are in no way directed at you as a person. :)

Kludge
03-27-2009, 07:36 AM
I admit, I retaliated. So sue me Kludge, defender of Bodhi. :D Bodhi I'm sorry if you saw that as an attack. Btw, Kludge, earlier you claimed I didn't refute him/her, and instead of addressing my response, you moved on to another claim against me. Why's dat?

My "second" claim was just a clarification of my first claim.

As for "why?" -- I'm a curmudgeon.

Emmitt2222
03-27-2009, 07:48 AM
Y'all people be posting in a troll thread.

I can't believe this thing is still going on. Go back and look at the history of our country in regards to immigration and labor injustices. Whether you want to accept it or not, many immigrants, especially from countries like Italy, came over to America for monetary purposes. It wasn't all just about having more freedom necessarily.

Also, if you don't think this country was built on the backs of people be vastly underpaid and overworked, you are also sorely mistaken. People in China have plenty of farmland they can work on, but they can not bring in enough money so they voluntarily go into the migrant workers camps. Much like immigrants worked in dirty mills and meat-packing plants.

If you believe Jim Rogers is unloyal to his country, that is fine with me. I just feel that is absolutely silly because this country grew because of people doing the exact same thing he is doing now. Don't be haters - let this thread die now.

Reason
03-27-2009, 10:09 AM
So you're saying he should stay here where his children will live a tougher life just so he can appear to be more "American"?

good point

Brian4Liberty
03-27-2009, 11:52 AM
My favorite quote from a recent (8 years here) Chinese immigrant to the US when discussing Mormon-offshoot communities:

"The government must destroy them!"

anaconda
03-27-2009, 01:39 PM
In Jim Rogers' case???

Especially Jim Rogers. He's completely outspoken against the Fed and could soon be detained under provisions of the Patriot Act. Indefinitely. He is probably not eager to be detained in a FEMA camp in the near future when civil unrest potentially breaks out. Add that to reckless No-Fly lists, having his guns taken away, and conscripted into service by Obama, and I can fully appreciate just chilling in the Asian sector.

eduardo89
03-28-2009, 12:08 AM
And.....you're okay with this....?

I'm necessarily against it....