what happened to Sematary's thread?

[belian78]

the one bout not talking about RP positions? was that one of Anita's "strategies" so the thread had to be yanked?

the thread was about not talking to people about RP's positions, and how i felt that was wrong. if you just go up to someone and hand them a slimjim and tell them nothing, your going to get nothing in return.

I dont ever talk like i'm representing the campaign, hell i even say "now i'm not Dr Paul, but.."

but to have someone ask you "what's he about?" and you say "oh, cant tell you anything, look it up for yourself". that's gonna do about as much as sitting in a rocking chair. it takes up time, but doesnt get you anywhere.

[Chester Copperpot]

the one bout not talking about RP positions? was that one of Anita's "strategies" so the thread had to be yanked?

the thread was about not talking to people about RP's positions, and how i felt that was wrong. if you just go up to someone and hand them a slimjim and tell them nothing, your going to get nothing in return.

I dont ever talk like i'm representing the campaign, hell i even say "now i'm not Dr Paul, but.."

but to have someone ask you "what's he about?" and you say "oh, cant tell you anything, look it up for yourself". that's gonna do about as much as sitting in a rocking chair. it takes up time, but doesnt get you anywhere.

i agree.. its better to know his positions well enough to at least explain it in some degree.. if you interest them enough then they will look him up and check him out,

[Ron Paul Fan]

I also agree with you belian. Maybe the thread was deleted because what they were advoating was a violation of the 1st amendment. I think we can answer someone when they ask a question about Ron Paul! I mean, we are his diehard supporters so we should know a little about his positions! If it's something specific that we don't know, then we say that we don't know his position on that issue and refer them to other sources. But to say that we shouldn't answer questions from people is ridiculous.

[Ninja Homer]

I'm wondering what happened to the thread as well... Removed by a moderator on purpose, or database error?

[smtwngrl]

Hmm, that's strange, that the thread just disappeared. I looked in subscribed threads, and it is really gone.

[ghemminger]

YANK ALERT -

We are on yank mode again - just got a Warning - for making fun on Gouliani!!!

[mdh]

The statements being made in that thread were factually inaccurate. Anyone who has been to the training will know that he parroted back on statement which was part of a larger training, which taken out of context as it was, completely lost the point and the value.

If you have not been to the training, don't dump incorrect second-hand information on this forum please. If you have been to the training, don't share information - the NDA may well be to prevent just this sort of situation, as I think more on it..... :(

[Santana28]

Well, if this WAS something being pushed by Anita Andrews through her NDA agreement... i'd be very very worried.

YES - we shouldn't put words in Ron's mouth. Duh. Especially important since we have so many people who have their own personal agendas that support Ron Paul (truthers, white supremists, home schoolers, etc).

But to actively encourage people away from spreading Ron's message and political positions - i don't see ANY way that would be helpful, and i see a LOT of ways that could be harmful. Sure - you can hand someone a slimjim and hope they read it. But you can also tell them exactly what is on the slim jim from heart, and have that person witness a REAL HUMAN BEING speak passionately about a cause they believe in. Which is more effective?

Now wonder she's having people sign NDAs.

http://a447.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/73/l_65fb09da9631e331c4a103a6140a9d1e.jpg

[Bryan]

Sorry, the issue is under review. Please PM / post any information so we can make a most informed decision.

I did send note to Sematary on this...

[Bryan]

YANK ALERT -

We are on yank mode again - just got a Warning - for making fun on Gouliani!!!

It wasn't a warning, just a note. :)

[mdh]

Well, if this WAS something being pushed by Anita Andrews through her NDA agreement... i'd be very very worried.

YES - we shouldn't put words in Ron's mouth. Duh. Especially important since we have so many people who have their own personal agendas that support Ron Paul (truthers, white supremists, home schoolers, etc).

But to actively encourage people away from spreading Ron's message and political positions - i don't see ANY way that would be helpful, and i see a LOT of ways that could be harmful. Sure - you can hand someone a slimjim and hope they read it. But you can also tell them exactly what is on the slim jim from heart, and have that person witness a REAL HUMAN BEING speak passionately about a cause they believe in. Which is more effective?

Now wonder she's having people sign NDAs.


Please don't accept these things without context. Go and see the training for yourself and make your own judgments. The way these statements are being made without the context of the training as a whole is certain to cause people to get riled up once more about something that is not only not at all nefarious, but is in fact a genuinely positive thing!

[Santana28]

Please don't accept these things without context. Go and see the training for yourself and make your own judgments. The way these statements are being made without the context of the training as a whole is certain to cause people to get riled up once more about something that is not only not at all nefarious, but is in fact a genuinely positive thing!

i didn't. thats what the word *IF* is for. nothing wrong with a little speculation, is there? i could very well be wrong... i hope i am, actually. hows that for a disclaimer?

[mdh]

i didn't. thats what the word *IF* is for. nothing wrong with a little speculation, is there? i could very well be wrong... i hope i am, actually. hows that for a disclaimer?

That's fine, there's no reason for you to be defensive. I am upset that someone posted something that made you (and possibly others) feel that way, not that you feel that way. :(

The simple fact is that this was settled, and now it's been dredged up again because people are spreading second-hand info, making statements without understand the context, and otherwise misinforming folks.

[constituent]

huh... this whole situ. (which i just typed up on) has me kinda phreaked....

what's the score bryan?

i thought i gave some good advice in that thread (if it's the one i'm thinking of)
so, i'm just kinda wondering...

could ya PM me if you get a chance?

oh yea.... and about the Texas organized group too if you get a chance!!!!!!!


P.S. i'm starting to feel like these problems are only going to worsen
and that somehow a very strategic rift has been developed w/in
the movement.... intuition.

[ronpaulitician]

Sure - you can hand someone a slimjim and hope they read it. But you can also tell them exactly what is on the slim jim from heart, and have that person witness a REAL HUMAN BEING speak passionately about a cause they believe in. Which is more effective?
Not sure.

If someone had talked to me passionately about Paul stance on abortion, or how he is a strong believer in God, that might've been enough to not make me look into him any further. If I didn't watch the debates, I would've never got to know Ron Paul.

However, had that same person handed me some literature, even if his stance on abortion and strong belief in God were on there as part of a long list of issue statements, I don't think it would've turned me off to Paul's cause of liberty.

Unless we believe that the Paul campaign is clueless, it seems to me that the person they are paying, Anita Andrews, must know a thing or two about campaigning.

I personally always talk about my own view on the war in Iraq, and then explain that I believe that Paul is the only Republican candidate that will end the war. I do not believe that Paul will get many votes from people who are in support of the war in Iraq, so think it's probably the safest issue to bring up.

[constituent]

yea... before talking to anyone (even your family) it is a good idea to chart out what the hot button ministry manufactured wedge issues are... you know the ones that get your aunt so and so and grandpa all wound up...

yea, and then avoid those completely. talk about the fluff and stuff... tell them how proud his constituents are of his congressional record (we are)... tell them about how fast the movement is growing... things of that nature...

keep it out of hot topics.

[belian78]

believe me, i'm not trying to throw out garbage here, this is what was told to me by my co-organizer that did go to the meeting with Anita. and then Sematary just verified it with his post.

So i've been told by 2 separate people, that have been to the training incidentally, to not talk to people about Dr Paul's stances on the issues. and i fail to understand how that is supposed to help us in getting people to look farther into him. it's been universally agreed upon in here that Dr Paul's stances require one to look into things deeper than a "30 second soundbyte", so how is just handing them a slimjim and smiling going to help?

[ghemminger]

believe me, i'm not trying to throw out garbage here, this is what was told to me by my co-organizer that did go to the meeting with Anita. and then Sematary just verified it with his post.

So i've been told by 2 separate people, that have been to the training incidentally, to not talk to people about Dr Paul's stances on the issues. and i fail to understand how that is supposed to help us in getting people to look farther into him. it's been universally agreed upon in here that Dr Paul's stances require one to look into things deeper than a "30 second soundbyte", so how is just handing them a slimjim and smiling going to help?

Please don't mention anything official thats unofficial - unless it officially unofficial!

[mdh]

believe me, i'm not trying to throw out garbage here, this is what was told to me by my co-organizer that did go to the meeting with Anita. and then Sematary just verified it with his post.

So i've been told by 2 separate people, that have been to the training incidentally, to not talk to people about Dr Paul's stances on the issues. and i fail to understand how that is supposed to help us in getting people to look farther into him. it's been universally agreed upon in here that Dr Paul's stances require one to look into things deeper than a "30 second soundbyte", so how is just handing them a slimjim and smiling going to help?

There's much more to it than the way it's being stated here. This is all so out of context of the greater whole of what the training session had to say that it completely fails to get the real point across.

I feel like I'm running damage control here now because of this stuff, and that isn't a good feeling.

The short of it all: If you haven't been to the training, you haven't been to the training. If you don't have *all* of the information from the *whole* training, then you are probably not going to be able to implement the strategy from the training, so don't go off half-cocked......... :(

[constituent]

There's much more to it than the way it's being stated here. This is all so out of context of the greater whole of what the training session had to say that it completely fails to get the real point across.

I feel like I'm running damage control here now because of this stuff, and that isn't a good feeling.

The short of it all: If you haven't been to the training, you haven't been to the training. If you don't have *all* of the information from the *whole* training, then you are probably not going to be able to implement the strategy from the training, so don't go off half-cocked......... :(

Houston (texas city whatever) we have a problem.

[belian78]

okay, so answer the one question that i have a problem with then. are you, or are you not "supposed" to talk about Dr Paul's stances on the issues?

[specsaregood]

believe me, i'm not trying to throw out garbage here, this is what was told to me by my co-organizer that did go to the meeting with Anita. and then Sematary just verified it with his post.

So i've been told by 2 separate people, that have been to the training incidentally, to not talk to people about Dr Paul's stances on the issues. and i fail to understand how that is supposed to help us in getting people to look farther into him. it's been universally agreed upon in here that Dr Paul's stances require one to look into things deeper than a "30 second soundbyte", so how is just handing them a slimjim and smiling going to help?


As MDH said, there is MUCH MORE TO IT than what was stated. Seriously, much deeper. Attend one of her sessions and you will see that.

I was very impressed with her presentation and materials. It is a lot of work, but it is the beginning of the gameplan to win this election.

Taking one small part out of context, will just cause disruption and confusion.

As far as when/where she is going next? I don't know. Keep your ears open.

[belian78]

There's much more to it than the way it's being stated here. This is all so out of context of the greater whole of what the training session had to say that it completely fails to get the real point across.

I feel like I'm running damage control here now because of this stuff, and that isn't a good feeling.

The short of it all: If you haven't been to the training, you haven't been to the training. If you don't have *all* of the information from the *whole* training, then you are probably not going to be able to implement the strategy from the training, so don't go off half-cocked......... :(

and no, i havent been to the training and now that i havent i'm feeling like i'm a plauge victim or something. my co-organizer doesnt contact me anymore, he has no interest in the booths i had planned or any other event that i had been planning for months.

people on this board are being divided up into the "been to anita training" and "others" and that is the anti-thesis of everything Dr Paul is relying on to win this nomination. so tell me why it's such a good thing to have all this division when we were doing just fine to this point.

and dont ever acuse me of going off "half cocked" you have no idea who i am and what i've done and sacrificed for a man that i've never met.

[mdh]

okay, so answer the one question that i have a problem with then. are you, or are you not "supposed" to talk about Dr Paul's stances on the issues?

According to the official strategy, there is a *whole strategy*. The question you asked is not the simple yes or no question that you think it is; the answer is complicated and part of a very complicated whole strategy. I won't discuss the strategy due to obligations of the NDA.

[Lord Xar]

I personally thought Semetary's recommendation was a bad one.

I mean, how do you spread "name brand recognition" if all we say is "go check out the website..." You think someone is gonna go "wow, he sounds great let me go check him out even though you told me nothing about him..'

Also, if we take that advice... then we should stop whatever we are planning for RADIO and T.V Commercials on a grassroots level, and ALL flyering - unless it is EXPLILCITY from the campaign. In which case, nothing will get done.

And not only that, we are suppose to agree because "the seminar was very informative and you'll see once you go. You'll understand... its part of the plan..."
Well, if I wait the month or two or if ever, that they have a meeting in my area - I will effectively be neautralized given that advice of NOT TALKING.

think about this. they want us to push people towards the site that HAS MINIMAL INFORMATION.

This groundswell of support has come MOSTLY from word of mouth, and networking.. so now its not good enough. We can take it to the next level, but we also can do what we've been doing.

my 2 cents.

[specsaregood]

okay, so answer the one question that i have a problem with then. are you, or are you not "supposed" to talk about Dr Paul's stances on the issues?

Your question does NOT have a yes/no answer. It is as simple as that. Unless you understand the "whole" then you can't understand the context of that statement.

[belian78]

According to the official strategy, there is a *whole strategy*. The question you asked is not the simple yes or no question that you think it is; the answer is complicated and part of a very complicated whole strategy. I won't discuss the strategy due to obligations of the NDA.

yup, that's what i thought.

[Sematary]

I personally thought Semetary's recommendation was a bad one.

I mean, how do you spread "name brand recognition" if all we say is "go check out the website..." You think someone is gonna go "wow, he sounds great let me go check him out even though you told me nothing about him..'

Also, if we take that advice... then we should stop whatever we are planning for RADIO and T.V Commercials on a grassroots level, and ALL flyering - unless it is EXPLILCITY from the campaign. In which case, nothing will get done.

my 2 cents.

The idea, I believe, is to not MIS-represent his positions, but instead, give out the literature which explains some of the details and then ask them to contact the campaign for further information and to allow the Dr. to represent his own positions because - honestly, nobody can speak for him, like himself.

[mdh]

and no, i havent been to the training and now that i havent i'm feeling like i'm a plauge victim or something. my co-organizer doesnt contact me anymore, he has no interest in the booths i had planned or any other event that i had been planning for months.

people on this board are being divided up into the "been to anita training" and "others" and that is the anti-thesis of everything Dr Paul is relying on to win this nomination. so tell me why it's such a good thing to have all this division when we were doing just fine to this point.

and dont ever acuse me of going off "half cocked" you have no idea who i am and what i've done and sacrificed for a man that i've never met.

I'm not accusing you... oy....... This has grown into such a mess.

Let me take the time to address one thing, though. If your co-organizer has stopped contacting you and is not interested in taking part in events, it is not due directly to something in the training. It may be - based on what you said about his experiences right after he attended - that he is feeling overwhelmed. The strategy is complex and requires a lot of hard work to make the most of, but if we put in the work, it will serve as a GREAT effect amplifier.
I'd say you should take the time to reach out to him, and to get him to train you, as I said in the other thread.

[Ridiculous]

I would speculate that the campaign doesn't want people to start spouting off issues that wedge issues or start talking about certain stuff that takes a lot of information to understand, tax issues, why departments should be abolished, etc. They'd rather the issues be presented in the words that they have chosen.

For example, many of the Ron Paul base feel very strongly against the CFR and how candidates on both side of the fence are members. Well the CFR is not one of Ron Paul's campaign issues... I don't think that they want those who want to "wake up the sheeple" to engage in conversations with people that john q. public might think are kooky or conspiracy theory-ish even though their might be a lot of truth to the issue.

[mdh]

I would speculate

I wish people would stop speculating. :(

[ghemminger]

I had a debate with Friends and family recently at a Chucky Cheese - It got very heated and I ---sorry---- qouted RP and shared some of his views - ultimately winning many of them over. I am not going to express my opinion in setting like that. People ask me about Ron Paul all the time and I try my best to answer thier questions

[specsaregood]

I'm not accusing you... oy....... This has grown into such a mess.

Let me take the time to address one thing, though. If your co-organizer has stopped contacting you and is not interested in taking part in events, it is not due directly to something in the training. It may be - based on what you said about his experiences right after he attended - that he is feeling overwhelmed. The strategy is complex and requires a lot of hard work to make the most of, but if we put in the work, it will serve as a GREAT effect amplifier.
I'd say you should take the time to reach out to him, and to get him to train you, as I said in the other thread.

What MDH said! If you have somebody in your group or near you that HAS been to the training; then BY GOD GET THEM TO TEACH YOU! You will still have to sign the NDA, but they should realize how much work it is and SHOULD be dying to get more people trained and on board.

[mdh]

What MDH said! If you have somebody in your group or near you that HAS been to the training; then BY GOD GET THEM TO TEACH YOU! You will still have to sign the NDA, but they should realize how much work it is and SHOULD be dying to get more people trained and on board.

Yeah, we've already organized another training here in WV by one of the people who was at the training Ms. Andrews gave us to get a few more people trained. This is crucial, to get additional people trained, and it was something that is explicitly condoned.

[Dustancostine]

There's much more to it than the way it's being stated here. This is all so out of context of the greater whole of what the training session had to say that it completely fails to get the real point across.

I feel like I'm running damage control here now because of this stuff, and that isn't a good feeling.

The short of it all: If you haven't been to the training, you haven't been to the training. If you don't have *all* of the information from the *whole* training, then you are probably not going to be able to implement the strategy from the training, so don't go off half-cocked......... :(

See this is the problem with the stupid NDA.

[Ridiculous]

I wish people would stop speculating. :(

meh. I haven't got anything better to do than speculate. I am at work.

[mdh]

See this is the problem with the stupid NDA.

No it isn't, it's a problem with people violating it and spreading tiny out-of-context tidbits of what is an overall complex whole strategy.

The NDA is a great idea if only to keep people from posting bits and pieces on forums and creating FUD and confusion like this....... :(

[UtahApocalypse]

Im lost....

What is this "Training?"

[belian78]

Im lost....

What is this "Training?"

cant talk about it...

[mdh]

Im lost....

What is this "Training?"

It is a training session by Anita Andrews, who is in the employ of the Ron Paul 2008 PCC - the official campaign. It outlines the strategy which the campaign has lined up for us, how the campaign will be helping us as we move forward, and some other REALLY neat stuff! Go if you have the chance. It's worth the time.

[Dustancostine]

No it isn't, it's a problem with people violating it and spreading tiny out-of-context tidbits of what is an overall complex whole strategy.

The NDA is a great idea if only to keep people from posting bits and pieces on forums and creating FUD and confusion like this....... :(

One thing is theory and what actually happens. Socialism is a great theory but doesn't work. Trying to bottle something up will not work either. So instead of providing a way of getting information out and keeping what is needed secret, secret. We have this stupid NDA that is keeping people from getting the information that could help them, alienating other RP supporters, and spreading false information about the training, because is something is leaked that is not true the people that know the truth cannot set the record straight.

Heck, I even asked if the NDA could be posted and apparently you have to sign a NDA to see the NDA. I mean if I was in one of y'alls meetup group and you wanted to train me you would show me the NDA, so why can't it be posted here for people to see?

This is causing problems. I hope that it works out in the end though.

--Dustan

[UtahApocalypse]

It is a training session by Anita Andrews, who is in the employ of the Ron Paul 2008 PCC - the official campaign. It outlines the strategy which the campaign has lined up for us, how the campaign will be helping us as we move forward, and some other REALLY neat stuff! Go if you have the chance. It's worth the time.


Couple questions/concerns:

First off when and where are these magical trainings that make us better?
I thought bye LAW with the FEC stuff the campaign can have NOTHING to do with the grassroots campaign?
If I get "Trained" am I no longer legally allowed to grassroots things since im now "Trained" by the campaign? If so count me out.

[Sematary]

I had a debate with Friends and family recently at a Chucky Cheese - It got very heated and I ---sorry---- qouted RP and shared some of his views - ultimately winning many of them over. I am not going to express my opinion in setting like that. People ask me about Ron Paul all the time and I try my best to answer thier questions

That's all we can do. We just need to make sure we actually understand his positions though. For instance, when people say that he wants to "legalize drugs". Ron Paul never once, to my knowledge, said that he wanted to legalize drugs. He said he wanted to end the drug war, which is not the same thing. The ultimate decision to legalize or not would remain with the states. That's just one example.

[mdh]

One thing is theory and what actually happens. Socialism is a great theory but doesn't work. Trying to bottle something up will not work either. So instead of providing a way of getting information out and keeping what is needed secret, secret. We have this stupid NDA that is keeping people from getting the information that could help them, alienating other RP supporters, and spreading false information about the training, because is something is leaked that is not true the people that know the truth cannot set the record straight.

I think I have set the record straight here. What it comes down to is that the strategy is a cohesive whole, and cannot be discussed in part without losing the point. People would be horribly misinformed if they only got a part of it and not the whole thing. The problem is that leaks are happening. The *only* way to learn this material is to learn *ALL* of this material. And plenty of it is private for very good reason. Knowing only part or even most of it, you would not be able to effectively implement it, and would probably be far less effective than if you knew none of it at all. Knowing all of it, however, you can be tremendously more effective. So go to a session and git 'er' dun.


Heck, I even asked if the NDA could be posted and apparently you have to sign a NDA to see the NDA. I mean if I was in one of y'alls meetup group and you wanted to train me you would show me the NDA, so why can't it be posted here for people to see?

This is causing problems. I hope that it works out in the end though.

--Dustan

I don't see why the NDA couldn't be shared, but I don't have an electronic copy personally.

[specsaregood]

See this is the problem with the stupid NDA.

Yeah it is only a problem if you WANT all the other campaigns and media to KNOW the strategy, training, techniques and GRAND SCHEME of what the campaign is doing. I for one don't want that. What Anita is working on doing is exactly what the other campaign are afraid of happening.

[belian78]

Couple questions/concerns:

First off when and where are these magical trainings that make us better?
I thought bye LAW with the FEC stuff the campaign can have NOTHING to do with the grassroots campaign?
If I get "Trained" am I no longer legally allowed to grassroots things since im now "Trained" by the campaign? If so count me out.

well, you wont be able to talk to anyone about anything unless they've been "trained" too. and you cant discuss Dr Paul's platforms with others as you do now, you'll just be instructed to hand them a slimjim and a smile. that's what i'm getting from it, but then I havent been trained so...

I'm sorry i'm not being an A** just for the fun of it. I just really have a problem with something that's supposed to be a big help, but has done nothing but cause division from the get go.

[Dustancostine]

cant talk about it...

First Rule of Ron Paul Club, is you DONT talk about Ron Paul Club

Second Rule of Ron Paul Club, is you DONT talk about Ron Paul Club

Third Rule of Ron Paul Club, if someone says NAU, 9/11 Truth, or Abortion, the converstation is over

Fourth Rule of Ron Paul Club, Two Men to a sign waving

Fifth Rule of Ron Paul Club, One man passing out slim jims

Sixth Rule of Ron Paul Club, No alternative clothing, look like a Republican

Seventh Rule of Ron Paul Club, Promoting Ron Paul will go on as long as it has to

Eighth Rule of Ron Paul Club, if this is your first meeting, you have to sign a NDA.

:D

[Ron Paul Fan]

This whole NDA and training day with Denzel Washington and Anita Andrews thing is silly. We're supporting a grassroots Presidential campaign, not working for the fucking Pentagon! And thing thing is, no one here seemed to violate the NDA. Semetary wasn't at the training and therefore did not adhere to the NDA. We're doing nothing wrong here by spreading information considering not all of us can go to the training since we live so far away from where it'd held. I guess all of us untrained people will just be left in the dust. We can't talk to people who have been in the training about strategy because of the NDA and we can't attend the training because we're not where Anita is. That is a really brilliant strategy!

[mdh]

Couple questions/concerns:

First off when and where are these magical trainings that make us better?

I'm not sure when/where near you a training might be scheduled. I'd advise you to contact your local coordinatorfolks and ask them to make contact with the campaign. Ms. Andrews is currently travelling around the country making this happen. If your coordinators contact the campaign (Don here on ronpaulforums has generously made his contact details public in other threads so that he can help serve as a POC for us) then you can likely find out more that way.


I thought bye LAW with the FEC stuff the campaign can have NOTHING to do with the grassroots campaign?

Please quote the FEC regulation that gives you that impression.

Seriously, if you have not read FEC regs, don't make assumptions about what they say. This is just another way that people become unnecesarily confused.


If I get "Trained" am I no longer legally allowed to grassroots things since im now "Trained" by the campaign? If so count me out.

No. No one has said that. That's not correct at all.

[mdh]

well, you wont be able to talk to anyone about anything unless they've been "trained" too. and you cant discuss Dr Paul's platforms with others as you do now, you'll just be instructed to hand them a slimjim and a smile. that's what i'm getting from it, but then I havent been trained so...

People who haven't attended the training making statements about the content of the training seems overwhelmingly silly to me. :confused:

[Ninja Homer]

Remember when people here were upset because campaign HQ wasn't telling us grassroots people anything? After a while we found out that the reason for it was because the FEC has strict regulations on it. Then, it was kind of universally decided that we could do whatever the hell we wanted, it just had to be separate from the official campaign.

We essentially have the same thing going on here. A chunk of the grassroots effort is being split off to do whatever it is that Anita Andrews says to do. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, because I don't know what she has to say yet. The rest of us grassroots people just have to keep doing whatever we can. The Anita Andrews grassroots people can't tell us anything because of the NDA.

I was suspicious of this whole thing at first, but many people have now come out on this forum saying that it's a very good thing, and I trust them. The rest of us just have to keep on doing what we can until we get the training.

What would be great is to figure out a way for the rest of us to get this training without waiting for Anita Andrews to come to our city. Maybe if people who are already trained were willing to drive a few hours to give a training in another city? Then somebody from that training could do the same, and it could spread across the country in just a couple weeks.

[mdh]

First Rule of Ron Paul Club, is you DONT talk about Ron Paul Club

Second Rule of Ron Paul Club, is you DONT talk about Ron Paul Club

Third Rule of Ron Paul Club, if someone says NAU, 9/11 Truth, or Abortion, the converstation is over

Fourth Rule of Ron Paul Club, Two Men to a sign waving

Fifth Rule of Ron Paul Club, One man passing out slim jims

Sixth Rule of Ron Paul Club, No alternative clothing, look like a Republican

Seventh Rule of Ron Paul Club, Promoting Ron Paul will go on as long as it has to

Eighth Rule of Ron Paul Club, if this is your first meeting, you have to sign a NDA.

:D

LOL, OK, that was funny. :)

[mdh]

I was suspicious of this whole thing at first, but many people have now come out on this forum saying that it's a very good thing, and I trust them. The rest of us just have to keep on doing what we can until we get the training.

Thank you so much. You are absolutely right.


What would be great is to figure out a way for the rest of us to get this training without waiting for Anita Andrews to come to our city. Maybe if people who are already trained were willing to drive a few hours to give a training in another city? Then somebody from that training could do the same, and it could spread across the country in just a couple weeks.

Yepp! Remember some of the stuff is apparently state-specific, so try and get folks in the same state to do them. Try and figure out which folks who have attended have the best memories or notes, and will do the best job of training others.

[Kregener]

...what they were advoating was a violation of the 1st amendment.

So to stop that violation of the 1st Amendment, you violate the 1st Amendment?

Check.

[belian78]

i just think it's funny as hell that it's admitted daily on these forums that the majority of people we need to rely on to vote in the primaries are not internet users, but at the same time the "next wave" of our strategy relies on NDA's and not talking to anyone that hasnt signed one, and not discussing the issues with the average voter. we tell them to go look into it for themselves when it's already agreed upon that they will not. it's laughable.

do what ever makes you feel good. i'm going to make sure that the people i talk to know what Ron Paul is about, and even if they dont end up voting for him, they'll sure as hell be more informed going forward.

[Sematary]

i just think it's funny as hell that it's admitted daily on these forums that the majority of people we need to rely on to vote in the primaries are not internet users, but at the same time the "next wave" of our strategy relies on NDA's and not talking to anyone that hasnt signed one, and not discussing the issues with the average voter. we tell them to go look into it for themselves when it's already agreed upon that they will not. it's laughable.

do what ever makes you feel good. i'm going to make sure that the people i talk to know what Ron Paul is about, and even if they dont end up voting for him, they'll sure as hell be more informed going forward.

The only thing I would ask is that his positions are represented correctly. Which is why I started the other thread. His positions are commonly misrepresented and if that happens, then we don't help him, or the cause of liberty.

[Ron Paul Fan]

So to stop that violation of the 1st Amendment, you violate the 1st Amendment?

Check.

NO! This forum is the property of its owners. They can run it as they see fit, ban anyone they want, and delete any messages they want without any reason. You have the right to kick someone off of your property for any reason. I am a strong proponent of private property rights and the Consitution. What the people in the other thread were advocating was that we should basically stop telling people about Ron Paul's positions on some issues even if we knew what they were. That is wrong and doesn't coincide with the 1st amendment. And if you weren't in the other thread then stop spreading 2nd hand disinfo and going off half-cocked about it!

[mdh]

do what ever makes you feel good. i'm going to make sure that the people i talk to know what Ron Paul is about, and even if they dont end up voting for him, they'll sure as hell be more informed going forward.

Ah, OK. I'm of the opinion that we need voters to win, and I am here to win. I can't speak for anyone else here as far as that is concerned; though I often wonder how many people are not here with the specific intent of putting Ron Paul in the white house.

[Sematary]

NO! This forum is the property of its owners. They can run it as they see fit, ban anyone they want, and delete any messages they want without any reason. You have the right to kick someone off of your property for any reason. I am a strong proponent of private property rights and the Consitution. What the people in the other thread were advocating was that we should basically stop telling people about Ron Paul's positions on some issues even if we knew what they were. That is wrong and doesn't coincide with the 1st amendment. And if you weren't in the other thread then stop spreading 2nd hand disinfo and going off half-cocked about it!

That is NOT what that thread was about. It was about allowing the good Dr. to speak for himself - which is exactly what we should do in any case where we can. That is why I distribute dvd's of youtube videos so that he can do just that. I am happy to discuss issues with people but I am also certain to clarify that this is the way I understand his position but you can read/listen/see more at his website or on this dvd.

[belian78]

anything i dont know about i refer them to the various websites. it's just that Dr Paul doesn have the name recognition that is needed for the "here's a flier, vote ron paul" tactic. for the others, it would work fine. but think about it from a random person you approach on the street. why would they spend time that could be used to watch big brother 10 to look into a candidate they've never heard of? just cause someone with a RP shirt and button gave them a slimjim?

[belian78]

Ah, OK. I'm of the opinion that we need voters to win, and I am here to win. I can't speak for anyone else here as far as that is concerned; though I often wonder how many people are not here with the specific intent of putting Ron Paul in the white house.

please tell me that you didnt just insinuate that i'm here for some kind of nefarious reasons. please tell me you didnt just say that.

[mdh]

please tell me that you didnt just insinuate that i'm here for some kind of nefarious reasons. please tell me you didnt just say that.

I don't insinuate anything. I was just somewhat taken aback by your statement. I mean, we all know that votes are how to win, but you're talking about seemingly caring more about something else than about scoring the person's vote...?

[mdh]

anything i dont know about i refer them to the various websites. it's just that Dr Paul doesn have the name recognition that is needed for the "here's a flier, vote ron paul" tactic. for the others, it would work fine. but think about it from a random person you approach on the street. why would they spend time that could be used to watch big brother 10 to look into a candidate they've never heard of? just cause someone with a RP shirt and button gave them a slimjim?

That would be rather silly! If you'd had the training, though, you'd know how to turn that random person into a Ron Paul voter.

[belian78]

That would be rather silly! If you'd had the training, though, you'd know how to turn that random person into a Ron Paul voter.

let me tell ya something, i've been getting ron paul supporters since the day he formed the exploratory committee. and i'm really offended at the fact that you insinuate that i know s*** cause i havent been to your "special training". god****! I drive to 3 different states using my gas and money to help out in any little way i can think of, i work so f***in hard that i have my son asking me if i care about RP more than him, and then i'm treated like i'm an idiot cause i havent been indoctrinated yet, this is absurd! I'm done with these boards, you are ridiculous.

[mdh]

let me tell ya something, i've been getting ron paul supporters since the day he formed the exploratory committee. and i'm really offended at the fact that you insinuate that i know s*** cause i havent been to your "special training". god****! I drive to 3 different states using my gas and money to help out in any little way i can think of, i work so f***in hard that i have my son asking me if i care about RP more than him, and then i'm treated like i'm an idiot cause i havent been indoctrinated yet, this is absurd! I'm done with these boards, you are ridiculous.

There's no reason to be all defensive and act offended. Why not just get your co-organizer to give you the training and get you signed off on the NDA so that you'll know what we're all talking about?

[specsaregood]

//

[constituent]

great... let me know when you're coming to texas.

[LibertyEagle]

That's all we can do. We just need to make sure we actually understand his positions though. For instance, when people say that he wants to "legalize drugs". Ron Paul never once, to my knowledge, said that he wanted to legalize drugs. He said he wanted to end the drug war, which is not the same thing. The ultimate decision to legalize or not would remain with the states. That's just one example.

Yeah, I agree, but wasn't it *your* flyer that said that he wanted to legalize them? :p

[mdh]

great... let me know when you're coming to texas.

Dead serious here: somebody pays my way to TX, I will be more than happy to train them. I ain't rich though.

[McDermit]

let me tell ya something, i've been getting ron paul supporters since the day he formed the exploratory committee. and i'm really offended at the fact that you insinuate that i know s*** cause i havent been to your "special training". god****! I drive to 3 different states using my gas and money to help out in any little way i can think of, i work so f***in hard that i have my son asking me if i care about RP more than him, and then i'm treated like i'm an idiot cause i havent been indoctrinated yet, this is absurd! I'm done with these boards, you are ridiculous.
Dude, just ask your co-organizer or preferably someone else (since your co-organizer seems to have a different take on the training than most) to train you. Then decide for yourself whether it's something you want to implement.

[constituent]

hey... i'll be in atlanta in a couple of days if anyone between here and there has gotten the training... i'll stop by and visit.

[McDermit]

Dead serious here: somebody pays my way to TX, I will be more than happy to train them. I ain't rich though.

Come on up to PA for a day while you're at it. :p

[McDermit]

Yeah, I agree, but wasn't it *your* flyer that said that he wanted to legalize them? :p

No, it was *MY* flyer. And from what I've read/seen/heard, everything on the flyer was accurate. RP talks about drugs in the Google interview. Watch it.

[mdh]

hey... i'll be in atlanta in a couple of days if anyone between here and there has gotten the training... i'll stop by and visit.

Atlanta training happened not long ago. I know several people in Atlanta who'd like to get trained, ThePieSwindler indicated an interest to me as well.


Come on up to PA for a day while you're at it. :p

Where in PA? Keep in mind there's some state-specific stuff; so you may be better off to hook up with some of the Philadelphia folks who got the training this past weekend.

[constituent]

well if any atlantians on here are 'in the know' please PM me.

[Spirit of '76]

and no, i havent been to the training and now that i havent i'm feeling like i'm a plauge victim or something. my co-organizer doesnt contact me anymore, he has no interest in the booths i had planned or any other event that i had been planning for months.

Belian, you know I was skeptical of this stuff too, but having attended I now see the bigger picture.

Please don't give up or let this stuff get you down. The best thing you could do right now, I think, is to call your co-organizer and ask him to spend a few hours with you going over the materials and the strategy.

After that, the two of you can discuss how the booths and events you've been planning can be incorporated into the strategy. Those types of things can play a very important role in all of this!

[Man from La Mancha]

Man this pisses me off, I feel like a leper and afraid to take a step, I haven't been and don't know anything about this magical mystery school course and no one has invited me to anything. Not HQ or meetup group. Should I just sit and do nothing now out fear of screwing everything up. It's frustrating as hell. I feel like an outsider now instead of someone working together to get things done:confused: :confused: :mad: :mad:

.

[mdh]

Man this pisses me off, I feel like a leper and afraid to take a step, I haven't been and don't know anything about this magical mystery school course and no one has invited me to anything. Not HQ or meetup group. Should I just sit and do nothing now out fear of screwing everything up. It's frustrating as hell. I feel like an outsider now instead of someone working together to get things done:confused: :confused: :mad: :mad:

.

Nope, just keep doing as you always do.

Once you've had the whole course, you will know some additional stuff that may make you more effective. But that will only be after you've had the WHOLE thing.

[Spirit of '76]

Man this pisses me off, I feel like a leper and afraid to take a step, I haven't been and don't know anything about this magical mystery school course and no one has invited me to anything. Not HQ or meetup group. Should I just sit and do nothing now out fear of screwing everything up. It's frustrating as hell. I feel like an outsider now instead of someone working together to get things done:confused: :confused: :mad: :mad:

.

Don't sweat it. Just keep doing what you're doing until you can get to the training. :D

[Man from La Mancha]

Well I had plans of connecting with 100,000's people and having 10,000's listen to Ron Paul fm radio mini infomercials and I need daylight to do it so what do I do now just sit and wait for how long, to go to one these meetings?

.

[ronpaulhawaii]

...people on this board are being divided up into the "been to anita training" and "others" and that is the anti-thesis of everything Dr Paul is relying on to win this nomination. so tell me why it's such a good thing to have all this division when we were doing just fine to this point...


I certainly can see this is a divisive issue. Kinda strange how this board is going from a strong open-source advocate to advocating closed source campaigning. It seems the grassroots is being split into the haves and the have-nots... sad...


...I mean, how do you spread "name brand recognition" if all we say is "go check out the website..." You think someone is gonna go "wow, he sounds great let me go check him out even though you told me nothing about him...'

Also, if we take that advice... then we should stop whatever we are planning for RADIO and T.V Commercials on a grassroots level, and ALL flyering - unless it is EXPLILCITY from the campaign. In which case, nothing will get done.

And not only that, we are suppose to agree because "the seminar was very informative and you'll see once you go. You'll understand... its part of the plan..."
Well, if I wait the month or two or if ever, that they have a meeting in my area - I will effectively be neautralized given that advice of NOT TALKING.

think about this. they want us to push people towards the site that HAS MINIMAL INFORMATION.

This groundswell of support has come MOSTLY from word of mouth, and networking.. so now its not good enough. We can take it to the next level, but we also can do what we've been doing.

my 2 cents.

I will certainly keep doing what I have been doing. I have always avoided wedge issues like the plague. If people ask, I am knowledgable enough to give them a simple answer and direct them to appropriate sites for detailed information.


Man this pisses me off, I feel like a leper and afraid to take a step, I haven't been and don't know anything about this magical mystery school course and no one has invited me to anything. Not HQ or meetup group. Should I just sit and do nothing now out fear of screwing everything up. It's frustrating as hell. I feel like an outsider now instead of someone working together to get things done:confused: :confused: :mad: :mad:


It disturbs me to see people saying "wait and see" while I'm sitting on an island. I doubt I will ever see what the hell you guys are talking about. What are the chances of AA coming out here and visiting every island. Would the cost be justified?, I doubt it.

Bottom line is that the GR is being split into the haves and the have-nots, It seems the haves may be developing the superiority issues common in such divided societies and the have-nots are developing resentments common in such societies. Sad...

Again, I have to laugh at cat-herders. I, personally am not happy with much of the video our MU made of my walk (while I was away), but for certain I am not going to bury it because of that. If it inspires one person to do something more that it is worth it. So what if there are kooky mistakes, this is grassroots fer God's sake! My point is that if I had micro-managed, it would have never gotten done. And what good is that.

My final observation deals with the haves and the have-nots. IMHO, the have-nots are still true grassroots, I don't know what to call the haves...

my2cents

m

[mdh]

Personally, I find the divisive haves/have-nots thing rather silly. Have you asked your local coordinator folks to ask the campaign about getting trained? Something tells me Ms. Andrews will NOT be at all angry or resentful towards them about being forced to go ALL THE WAY to Hawaii. :p

If that isn't doable, then maybe you can get someone else to train you.

The only reason this is divisive is people make it so. The only reason this was brought up again at all is because someone violated the agreement they signed and made statements to someone who had not received the entire training and hence took the statements without the proper context and posted them here again without that proper context, along with some statements that simply weren't factually accurate at all. If people had just stuck to their obligations under the NDA, we would not have this mess.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Personally, I find the divisive haves/have-nots thing rather silly. Have you asked your local coordinator folks to ask the campaign about getting trained? Something tells me Ms. Andrews will NOT be at all angry or resentful towards them about being forced to go ALL THE WAY to Hawaii. :p

If that isn't doable, then maybe you can get someone else to train you.

The only reason this is divisive is people make it so. The only reason this was brought up again at all is because someone violated the agreement they signed and made statements to someone who had not received the entire training and hence took the statements without the proper context and posted them here again without that proper context, along with some statements that simply weren't factually accurate at all. If people had just stuck to their obligations under the NDA, we would not have this mess.

Fair enough. I can see that those who have the training are standing by it so there must be something good in there. For certain tho, you would not feel it was so silly if you were on the other side of the tracks.

The cost of flying a "trainer" <bark - bark;) > out here seems a bit prohibitive and I doubt it's cost-effectiveness. Who in these islands is "qualified"? No-one mentioned it at the meet-up I went to last week, I haven't seen it mentioned on our boards. So, it seems we are left in the dark, the forgotton [occupied nation] in the pacific. Thats OK we're used to it. Just a bunch of hula girls and beach bums out here...

This NDA thing is a bit of a bummer. I completely agree that some things are best kept "close". Unfortunatly we get back to the main issue of herding cats. Individualists like myself don't like giving up our freedoms and to do such seems against RP's stance of individual liberty. It still seems weird to see this stuff on this board, where "waiting for permission" has always been ridiculed.

What if I signed the agreement, then did not agree that the approach was well tailored for our unique society. Would that mean I am bound by the agreement, even if I had thought of most of the "points" on my own, (before signing the thing)? There are so many variables involved in NDA's that honor might prevent me from taking the risk. I have turned down quite a few good-paying jobs due to ill-worded contracts, no matter how well intentioned. The primary NDA in my business is an un-written rule, if you break it you don't get work. The things I have seen backstage would make alot of money for me, if I had no honor. That said, I sign actual NDA's often enough, but these are not about something I am passionate about. RP is something I am passionate about and I will be very careful risking my freedom to promote him, as a grassroots individual.

So, in the end we have the untrained (cats) and the trained (dogs), (being a dog person I am pretty p!$$#@ off ;) to have to label myself a cat). Perhaps the dogs and the cats will learn to co-exist, perhaps they wont. But the divisiveness is not anyones fault here and is a flaw in the "training". That much I can see...

my2cents

[katao]

This divisiveness is exactly why I have pushed an organized effort to spread the training more quickly than can be done with 1 person. Since it seems fairly universal that those in attendance praise the direction, surely it is important that we start acting on it ASAP, not months from now. And we've got to end the divisiveness (even if it is silly) as quickly as possible.

Please, for those who have been trained, consider organizing means to spread the training around the country (with appropriate NDAs). We don't have months to wait for AA to make it to Hawaii, Utah, etc. From the hints I've heard, there is a ton of work involved and we have about 3 months until the first primaries.

[ronpaulhawaii]

This divisiveness is exactly why I have pushed an organized effort to spread the training more quickly than can be done with 1 person. Since it seems fairly universal that those in attendance praise the direction, surely it is important that we start acting on it ASAP, not months from now. And we've got to end the divisiveness (even if it is silly) as quickly as possible.

Please, for those who have been trained, consider organizing means to spread the training around the country (with appropriate NDAs). We don't have months to wait for AA to make it to Hawaii, Utah, etc. From the hints I've heard, there is a ton of work involved and we have about 3 months until the first primaries.

Best post I've seen in this thread.